Nihilism

[cyborg]

NIHILISM (http://www.anus.com/zine/philosophy/index_nihilism.html)

Rejection of all inherent value frees us from a fascination with both materialism and moralism. These beliefs assert that what exists has ultimate value, and therefore that it is an end in itself and not a means to a life process. Nihilism asserts the opposite, and thus begins a path which leads us past fear of death to a heroic worldview.

[gooddeath]

Nihilism is just that, a belief in nothing. The problem I have with ANUS.com, despite the childish name, is that they are not nihilists in the true sense. They reject the mainstream dogma and set up a completely different set of dogma in its place, mostly eugenics, extreme environmentalism, and national socialism. In truth, a nihilist is not heroic until the very point when he SURPASSES nihilism. I used to call myself a nihilist, but that was at a point when I was losing faith in all the ideologies spit out at me. I now have defined beliefs. The best thing that ANUS.com could do is to grow up. They do have some somewhat decent articles on their site, so it is possible.

[Negrotic Overlord]

They reject the mainstream dogma and set up a completely different set of dogma in its place, mostly eugenics, extreme environmentalism, and national socialism. In truth, a nihilist is not heroic until the very point when he SURPASSES nihilism.

Wouldn't "surpassing nihilism" involve getting past illusion to see what is necessary and real? Obviously, then, they've surpassed nihilism :)

[gooddeath]

Yes, but at that point they are not "nihilists" and should not describe themselves as such. I have no problem with trying to influence nihlists, however, as they will be more likely to have a clearer view on things once they have let go of the insanity of modernity. Maybe it should be called American Post-Nihilists Underground Society:)

[Negrotic Overlord]

Yes, but at that point they are not "nihilists" and should not describe themselves as such.

They sound like nihilists to me: they have faith in nothing except cold realistic logic.

That's nihilism, beyond the kiddie stage.

[Joe McCarthy]

NIHILISM (http://www.anus.com/zine/philosophy/index_nihilism.html)

Rejection of all inherent value frees us from a fascination with both materialism and moralism. These beliefs assert that what exists has ultimate value, and therefore that it is an end in itself and not a means to a life process. Nihilism asserts the opposite, and thus begins a path which leads us past fear of death to a heroic worldview.

I think that Nihilism serves a purpose if one's aim is to destroy the established order. It has much value in inculcating a sense of cynicism into the populace thus undermining a rotting, stale regime devoid of values beyond careerism, bureaucratic empire building, and the like. We must destroy everything as it now exists - to use a bon mot of that arch-nihilist Bakunin.

At the same time, if the regime in power is basically healthy (as was the case when the original Russian Nihilists, the Anarchists, were trying to subvert the Tsar) then Nihilism should be crushed.

That said, I don't see Nihilism as the bridge to the heroic. Quite the reverse. To assert that Nihilism is the stuff of heroes betrays a woeful misunderstanding of the nature of Nihilism and substitutes a post-modernist interpretation that frankly is worthy of most of the set at anus.com. To associate the heroic life with Nihilism is to falsely apply a Nietzschean flavor to something that Nietzsche opposed (even if a few scatterbrains - even academic ones - are still offering the piffle that Nietzsche was a Nihilist).

I'll leave you with this:

I fear no man,
I fear no God,
I seek no heaven,
I fear no hell,
I have no heroes,
I have no faith,
I bow before no one.
I am a Nihilist.

http://www.counterorder.com/nihilismbios.html

[Geist]

They sound like nihilists to me: they have faith in nothing except cold realistic logic.

That's nihilism, beyond the kiddie stage.

No, thats a belief in logic.

[John Abney-Hastings]

Nihilism does not exist. A nihilist has to believe so. Therefore, anyone calling themself a nihilist is a fraud. :rofl:

[cyborg]

Nihilism does not exist. A nihilist has to believe so. Therefore, anyone calling themself a nihilist is a fraud. :rofl:

A "nihilist" who has reached his conclusion is indeed a fraud for he is a fatalist. Nihilism is at the level of method, not goal, which follows method. A discipline, itz!

[Anarch]

Nihilism has its use. By using nihilism one can dissolve bonds of morality and free one's mind, and start over. One can question why certain values should be upheld, and go 'backwards' until one rips apart every 'ought' and is simply left with an 'is'. From there, looking at life from a naturalistic point of view, one can discover the natural trajectory of all living things, discover one's own, and from there, form an appropriate world-view suitable for his own life.

[Joe McCarthy]

Nihilism has its use. By using nihilism one can dissolve bonds of morality and free one's mind, and start over. One can question why certain values should be upheld, and go 'backwards' until one rips apart every 'ought' and is simply left with an 'is'. From there, looking at life from a naturalistic point of view, one can discover the natural trajectory of all living things, discover one's own, and from there, form an appropriate world-view suitable for his own life.

This is essentially what Nietzsche did in his pre-Zarathustra works -- which tends to explain why the superficial refer to him as a Nihilist.

[Anarch]

This is essentially what Nietzsche did in his pre-Zarathustra works -- which tends to explain why the superficial refer to him as a Nihilist.
That's true. However, Nietzsche had his flaws. A more straight-foward, brutal look at nihilism would be in Max Stirner's The Ego and Its Own, which some have claimed influenced Nietzsche.

[White Eugenics]

Rejection of all inherent value frees us from a fascination with both materialism and moralism.

This is like what Nietzsche said in Twilight of the Idols about the real world and the apparent being linked. When you get over trying to make either one 100% exact, and follow instinct, things turn out better -- if you're a better quality person.

[gooddeath]

Morality is based largely on instincts, with the remainder being defined culturally. Most people have a gut instinct against doing things that would be considered immoral, such as murder, theft, rape, incest, etc. The culture has some power over these, but the base of it is on these instincts. I laugh at those who try to make up convoluted metaphysical guidelines for morality (like Kant). It's crap. You can't rationalize morality because it is all based on values from within. If you value human life, then you are against unjustified murder. You could just as well NOT value human life and encourage world-wide genocide. The State would hopefully protect you from the morally aberrant. As far as cultural morals go, they should be defined to better the people within that culture. They should be above gut instinct. An example would be war and eugenics. There is indeed some rationalization to forming these morals, but they are still based on values (betterment of a race, nation) and not complicated guidelines developed by some douche-bag a few centuries ago.

[Geist]

Nihilism has its use. By using nihilism one can dissolve bonds of morality and free one's mind, and start over. One can question why certain values should be upheld, and go 'backwards' until one rips apart every 'ought' and is simply left with an 'is'. From there, looking at life from a naturalistic point of view, one can discover the natural trajectory of all living things, discover one's own, and from there, form an appropriate world-view suitable for his own life.

Although nihilism is a nice basis, or whatever it happens to be, one must remember that one is employing reason/logic to destroy those bonds, and can never truly be engaging in nihilism. If this was the case then Descartes was engaged in a form of nihilism (exchange your own basis for his and theres little difference).

[White Eugenics]

Although nihilism is a nice basis, or whatever it happens to be, one must remember that one is employing reason/logic to destroy those bonds, and can never truly be engaging in nihilism.

At the same time, nihilism cannot exist without using reason/logic, nor can fatalism or any other philosophy, so your point is moot.

[Geist]

At the same time, nihilism cannot exist without using reason/logic, nor can fatalism or any other philosophy, so your point is moot.

I think you have it the wrong way around, nihilism does not exist without reason, and logic which are the fundamental principles here, not the other way around.

[White Eugenics]

I think you have it the wrong way around, nihilism does not exist without reason, and logic which are the fundamental principles here, not the other way around.

No; what I'm saying is that ANY form of thought presupposes those things, so it's ridiculous to criticize any one on that basis. Think your way around the obvious.

[gooddeath]

No; what I'm saying is that ANY form of thought presupposes those things, so it's ridiculous to criticize any one on that basis. Think your way around the obvious.

True. All thoughts assume that logic is valid. We cannot prove logic, because proving logic would require logic itself. Logic is just an assumption. You could somehow try rationalizing without using logic (if it were possible), but that would still require some faith in that method of rationalization.

[gooddeath]

Although my experience with logic has shown that it can be quite useful. We can't prove gravity either, but I'm pretty sure that gravity exists. I wouldn't accomplish much if I doubted everything around me.

[cyborg]

The improved nihilism seems more useful than what came before. Maybe they can advance toward remaking modern society.

Nihilism is the belief that nothing is real and nothing is worth doing. As such it is a form of idealism, or the belief that reality and mind share a function. When we realize our thoughts are more real than physical existence, but the two depend on each other, we can strip away our meaningless preconceptions and address reality as it actually is. Nihilism is at first fatalism, then realism, and finally, a heroic form of idealism in which we accept that our lives "mean" nothing except as we make them to be. Nihilism is an intellectual maturation that is the gateway to all future philosophy.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060531194839/http://www.anus.com/

[Vindex]

Maybe it is more wise to drop the Nihilism term as it appears to cause much confusion and craft a new term that is clear, maybe then people will stop getting stuck on style and move toward substance.

[cyborg]

Limey co-Hessian LLD asserts the meaning of nihilism during the April 28th Radio Nihil (http://www.anus.com/zine/radio/) show.