Iranian president:Israel must be wiped off the map

[Starr]

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has openly called for Israel to be wiped off the map.

"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the president told a conference in Tehran on Wednesday, entitled The World without Zionism.

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land," he said.

"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," said Ahmadinejad, referring to Iran's revolutionary leader Ayat Allah Khomeini.

His comments were the first time in years that such a high-ranking Iranian official has called for Israel's eradication, even though such slogans are still regularly used at government
rallies.

Call for unity

Addressing about 4000 students gathered in an Interior Ministry conference hall, Ahmadinejad also called for Palestinian unity, resistance and a point "where the annihilation of the Zionist regime will come".


Khatami was in favour of
'dialogue among civilisations'

"The Islamic umma (community) will not allow its historic enemy to live in its heartland," he said in the fiery speech that centred on a "historic war between the oppressor and the world of Islam".

The term "oppressor" is used by the clerical government to refer to the United States.

"We should not settle for a piece of land," he said of Israel's pullout from the Gaza Strip.

"Anyone who signs a treaty which recognises the entity of Israel means he has signed the surrender of the Muslim world," Ahmadinejad said.

"Any leaders in the Islamic umma who recognise Israel face the wrath of their own people."



Major change

Ahmadinejad, a veteran of Iran's hardline Revolutionary Guards, took office in August after scoring a landslide win in a June presidential election.

His tone represents a major change from that of former president Mohammad Khatami, whose favoured topic was "dialogue among civilisations" and who led an effort to improve Iran's relations with the West.

But Ahmadinejad instead spoke of a "historic war".

"It dates backs hundreds of years. Sometimes Islam has advanced. Sometimes nobody was winning. Unfortunately over the past 300 years, the world of Islam has been in retreat," he lamented.

"The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land"

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
President of Iran


"One hundred years ago the last trench of Islam fell, when the oppressors went towards the creation the Zionist regime. It is using it as a fort to spread its aims in the heart of the Islamic world."

In September, Bahrain announced it was ending a decades-old law banning trade ties with Israel. Earlier this month, Qatar said it was donating US$6 million to help build a soccer stadium for a mixed Arab-Jewish team, the first such financial assistance by an Arab state for any town inside Israel.

Unprecedented steps

The modest but unprecedented steps were seen as a response to Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in September. Nevertheless, Ahmadinejad said, "There is no doubt that the new wave (of attacks) in Palestine will soon wipe off this disgraceful blot (Israel) from the face of the Islamic world."

"Ahmadinejad has clearly declared the doctrine of his government. He is returning Iran to the revolutionary goals it was pursuing in the 1980s," said Mohammad Sadeq Hosseini, an expert on Middle Eastern affairs.


"By these comments, Ahmadinejad is committing himself to those goals. He is also sending the message that his government won't back down."


Israeli response

Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev issued a vague response. "Today, Israelis heard two extremists speak openly about destroying the Jewish state. One was the new president of Iran, and the other was the leader of Hamas, Mahmoud Zahar.


Scott McClellan said US fears
have proved accurate


"And it appears the problem with these extremists is that they followed through on their violent declarations with violent actions."



The United States said Ahmadinejad's remarks proved the accuracy of Washington's fears about Iran's contentious nuclear programme.



"I think it reconfirms what we have been saying about the regime in Iran. It underscores the concerns we have about Iran's nuclear intentions," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.



Ebrahim Yazdi, a former Iranian foreign minister, said Ahmadinejad's remarks harmed Iran.


"Such comments provoke the international community against us. It's not to Iran's interests at all. It's harmful to Iran to make such a statement," he said.


He said the comments gave Israel justification for urging the world to take a tougher stand against Iran and refer its nuclear programme to the UN Security Council for possible sanctions.

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

[Excorcism]

Just for the record, I would like to point out that Iran's president is a monkey...I don't mean that figuratively, I mean that he is an actual chimp....that learned to type a line from Shakespeare and was elected President. SOmeone needs to jump him and give him a new suit, haircut, and shave...freaking gorilla.

[Atlas]

What a nice man. I hope a few kikes are going to join Israel soon and that it's gonna happen.

[Niko Bellic]

"Here you go, Mr. Bush, it's even gift wrapped on a silver platter."

What a fucking moron.

[Starr]

"Here you go, Mr. Bush, it's even gift wrapped on a silver platter."

What a fucking moron.


Yeah, you know a lot of people are just loving these comments. He played right into their hands. But then again, since some kind of move against Iran is most likely coming anway, this is a good way for him to say fuck you, and get some support.

[Jimbo Gomez]

This guy seems to be the muslim version of bush. Equally intelligent and belligerent. This should prove to be interesting in the near future.

[ironweed]

The Iranian leadership has been saying the same thing in the same words
since Khomeini came to power in the '70s.

To wit (I think this was published in 1980):


http://www.irna.com/occasion/ertehal/english/saying/

Note: These quotes are from Chapters 4 and 5

Neither the Iranian Muslim nation, nor any other Muslims and, as a matter of fact, no open-minded individual, will recognize Israel. We shall always support our Arab and Palestinian brothers.

We must all rise, destroy Israel and replace it with the heroic Palestinian nation.

Regarding Israel, certainly we shall not help an illegitimate, usurper government which is trespassing the rights of the Muslims and is an enemy of Islam.

Islam and the Muslims and all international standards regard Israel as a usurper and aggressor and we do not approve the least negligence in terminating its aggressions.

I have often said and you have heard me say that Israel will not settle for these agreements for it regards the Arab domination over territories from the Nile to the Euphrates as usurpation.

Israel must be eradicated from the page of history.

It is incumbent on every Muslim to arm himself against Israel.

Those who support Israel must realize they are nurturing a pit viper up their sleeves.

Do not support Israel, this enemy of Islam and Arabs for this listless viper will have no mercy on you, young or old if it gets within your reach.


Reagan, Bush I and Clinton all shrugged their shoulders and let them babble. For 25 years. And suddenly its a problem. Hmmm. :rolleyes:

[Hakluyt]

Very disappointng. Iran could be in an excellent position geopolitically, but this kind of thing will make it increasingly difficult for it to serve as the effective regional bulwark it has the potential to be.

[Ixtab]

I like Ahmadinejad. He is absolutely right. And by saying this he is getting a boost of public opinion in his own country, and stirring up the hatred of the Palestinians, and thereby endorsing suicide bombings.

[Jimbo Gomez]

I like Ahmadinejad. He is absolutely right. And by saying this he is getting a boost of public opinion in his own country, and stirring up the hatred of the Palestinians, and thereby endorsing suicide bombings.


Hoping for suicide bombings behind the safety of a Canadian computer are we? ;)

[Ixtab]

Hoping for suicide bombings behind the safety of a Canadian computer are we? ;)The question is based on the implicit assumption that I should be identifying in some manner with Israeli Jews, the 'victims' of suicide bombings.

[Jimbo Gomez]

No, the question points to the irony of you cheering for the suicide of others while doing this without any consideration of choosing the same fate, which is hypocritical.

[Ixtab]

No, the question points to the irony of you cheering for the suicide of others while doing this without any consideration of choosing the same fate, which is hypocritical.That's like saying, "It's hypocritical for you to cheer for your favourite football team without actually joining the league".

[Jimbo Gomez]

Not really, that team does not make sacrifices and will not end up dead in the process of doing what you want. You want people to kill themselves.

[Ixtab]

Not really, that team does not make sacrifices and will not end up dead in the process of doing what you want. You want people to kill themselves.It would be hypocritical of my words contradicted my actions. My words are: Palestinian suicide bombings can be justifiable and should be continued. My words are not "everyone should suicide bomb" - if I said such a thing and never suicide-bombed, I would then be hypocritical as a matter of definition. So far I have said nothing hypocritical; nothing I have actually said has contradicted my actions.

Also, the fact that people kill each other in suicide bombings doesn't make my analogy any less analogous, logically.

[Jimbo Gomez]

A VERY thin line you draw there Ix. You already admitted to having the same enemy as they do, namely israel, and now you say they should die fighting your enemy without you doing this yourself. That is hypocrisy.

[Ixtab]

A VERY thin line you draw there Ix. You already admitted to having the same enemy as they do, namely israel,Not my personal enemy, just a country I detest: a 'team' that I want to lose.

... and now you say they should die fighting your enemy ...Not because it is 'my' enemy, but because it is the natural enemy of the indigenous people of that region.

... without you doing this yourself.I would have to be quite ubiquitous indeed if I physically participated in every struggle in the world I happen to have an opinion on.

That is hypocrisy.It is not hypocritical for reasons above mentioned. You are just repeating the same argument in different words now.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Ahah, but what you do isn't merely supporting a struggle, what you do is encouraging suicide, that's what this dispute revolves around.

[Ixtab]

Ahah, but what you do isn't merely supporting a struggle, what you do is encouraging suicide, ...By favouring Palestinian Martyrdom operations, I am indeed 'supporting' that struggle. One is not obliged to participate in every struggle in the international arena to which one attaches a positive evaluation. I don't believe that all supporters of the Iraq war are morally obliged to enlist in the armed forces forthwith, even though I disagree with their stance on the Iraq war.

[Excorcism]

Very disappointng. Iran could be in an excellent position geopolitically, but this kind of thing will make it increasingly difficult for it to serve as the effective regional bulwark it has the potential to be.

Meh, I could go off in a whole story and what not about the whole damn thing. Doesn't matter though, a bunch of crazy Islamists hijacked Iran and there is nothing I can currently do or say about it that will make a difference.

[Ixtab]

Iran is not hijacked by 'crazy Islamists'. Iran is one of the saner countries in the world to-day.

[Excorcism]

Iran is not hijacked by 'crazy Islamists'. Iran is one of the saner countries in the world to-day.

well it's more liberal in its interpretation of Islam than other places in the Middle East, except Lebanon and maybe Syria. However, The whole muslim thing as a nation just doesn't settle in well with many Iranians. Ah well, guess I'll just have to note the time when things finally start to happen.

[Slavic Enforcer]

Iran is the worst state of all.

[zenero]

Iran is the worst state of all.So awwww, how do you enjoy your stay in the ADL ?

[Niko Bellic]

So awwww, how do you enjoy your stay in the ADL ?

Right, because anyone who has a problem with Iran simply MUST be a jew, a jew lover, or a jew brainwash victim, because otherwise it would be crazy to criticise the good and pure nation of Iran.

[brigadier Biggles]

When they do bomb/invade it will make good TV.

[Excorcism]

When they do bomb/invade it will make good TV.

I'll definitly be watching it

[Billy Score]

Right, because anyone who has a problem with Iran simply MUST be a jew, a jew lover, or a jew brainwash victim, because otherwise it would be crazy to criticise the good and pure nation of Iran.
Go play with peter pan, fairy :D





How is Syria "worse" than Iran? (this is assuming that iran is "bad" in the first place). And Ix makes an excellent point. I hate that argument "OH WHY DON'T YOU MOVE TO RUSSIA" or "go do something." No action i could possibly do save take over a nuclear installation singlehandedly could ever further my cause sufficiently. And certainly i am not going to blow myself up in israel on account of the Palestinians. However if given opportunity to help the israelis or the palestinians, i couldn't imagine opting to aide anyone but the Palestinians.

[Starr]

However if given opportunity to help the israelis or the palestinians, i couldn't imagine opting to aide anyone but the Palestinians.


Why would you want to help either?

Palestinian suicide bombings can be justifiable and should be continued

Justifiable possibly, certainly to the Palestinians. But what do they really accomplish? A suicide bomber blows himself up and takes out about 3 or 5 jews and then the Israelis respond,(more victimized Jews blown to bits) which looks to many like a justifiable response and takes out twice that many Palestinians if not more. The Israel government wants and needs the suicide bombings to continue. Some would even speculate about who it really is that could be carrying out some of these "missions."

[Hakluyt]

I can appreciate why anyone would oppose the Zionist establishment as it currently exists, but opposing the simple existence of Israel is rather another thing which I do consider to be quite a flagrant and backward position. What reasons do you all have for opposing Zionism as an ideal, apart from its situation, which cannot be realised without the continued existence of the ethno-state in question

[Billy Score]

Why would you want to help either?



Justifiable possibly, certainly to the Palestinians. But what do they really accomplish? A suicide bomber blows himself up and takes out about 3 or 5 jews and then the Israelis respond,(more victimized Jews blown to bits) which looks to many like a justifiable response and takes out twice that many Palestinians if not more. The Israel government wants and needs the suicide bombings to continue. Some would even speculate about who it really is that could be carrying out some of these "missions."


well i never said i particularly LIKED muslims. they are a threat and their time will come. But as long as they are fighting israel they are ok in my book. Also- they seem to be the only clear headed people to hate modernism and western civilization and the only ones with the morals and virtues who actually take religious dogma seriously (the west certainly doesn't.)

[Starr]

In "by way of deception"(I think this is the right book, it may have been the other one written by the same guy) the author says that Mossad carries out false-flag type operations that target jews, especially in the Arab world, in an attempt to scare Jews and get them to consider moving to Israel. Too bad it doesn't happen more often and work. I don't oppose Israel, I wish all Jews would go there.

[Atlas]

Unfortunately, many Jews know better than us how hard it is to live in Israel, so I'm not sure if they would all move there. Some just prefer to stay in America or Europe, which are way safer place and where they are in the best jobs ( medias, lawyer, doctor, sciencist etc ). And they tend to assimliate a lot here too. So going to Israel isn't really important anymore for most of them. Look what happened when Sharon invited all the French Jews to come in Israel ? 200 Jews arrived and probably a bit more later but it's still not enough considering that 700 000 Jews live in France.

[Niko Bellic]

Go play with peter pan, fairy :D

This is the evil fairy.:D

I'm old enough to remember when Iran took American hostages, and that worthless waste of a suit, Jimmy Carter, let them make fools of us. I want blood, death, destruction, flames, and deep bomb craters in Iran. I don't care what excuse we use, and I don't care if it's us or Israel who gets the job done, but I want to watch it happen on CNN.

[Niko Bellic]

Why would you want to help either?



Justifiable possibly, certainly to the Palestinians. But what do they really accomplish? A suicide bomber blows himself up and takes out about 3 or 5 jews and then the Israelis respond,(more victimized Jews blown to bits) which looks to many like a justifiable response and takes out twice that many Palestinians if not more.

Rep for this. You had me up to that point. Then you continued...

The Israel government wants and needs the suicide bombings to continue. Some would even speculate about who it really is that could be carrying out some of these "missions."

Just so you get an idea of how that sounds to most people, I'll tell you my reaction. My first impression of a statement like that is identical to the reaction I have when the other side makes one of their more ridiculous claims like Nazi soldiers tossed jew babies up in the air and caught them on their bayonets, or the soap story.

[Ixtab]

I'm old enough to remember when Iran took American hostages, But apparently you are not old enough, or perhaps you are too old and too senile, to remember the reason they took these hostages. Can you name that reason? It should be readily apparent to any morally-minded person, that, in that particular situation of affairs, such an act is wholly justified, and you yourself would have done the very same thing in that situation, there can be no doubt.

I want blood, death, destruction, flames, and deep bomb craters in Iran.I myself am desirous of something more along these lines for your people:

http://www.lacarte.org/calamity/wtc/logo.jpg
http://members.aol.com/pushymia/katrina_victim11.jpg
http://multigraphic.dk/lounge/weblog/images/uploads/wtc_towers-1.jpg
:rofl:

Now that, to me, makes for far greater entertainment. And laughter, and that right satisfying feeling of 'you had it coming' that vindiciveness engenders.

[Ixtab]

^ A counter-provocative.

[Felix the Cat]

A lot of folks just don't understand reverse psychology

Wailing about the "horror" of war, and telling the world you'll never, ever fight in such-and-such conflict is a SURE way to get dragged into it

[Take a look at Wilson and WWI for a good example of this phenomenon]

The Iranian president has just told the Americans that he wants to fight them.

The US will now be MORE cautious in its dealings with Iran (you can be sure the guys in the Pentagon are asking themselves "what nasty piece of hardware have the Russians given him to make him so confident?")

Belligerent Iranian statements like this one make a US invasion of Iran LESS likely

[Starr]

Just so you get an idea of how that sounds to most people, I'll tell you my reaction. My first impression of a statement like that is identical to the reaction I have when the other side makes one of their more ridiculous claims like Nazi soldiers tossed jew babies up in the air and caught them on their bayonets, or the soap story.

Well I am not going to do like the jews would do and insist that this is how it is and you better believe it.:p But, yes I do believe it is certainly beneficial for the Israeli government when these things happen it gets people on their side and gives them the right, in many people's eyes to retaliate in worse ways against their enemy. As for Mossad being involved in these deeds, I can't say I know for sure, or anything obviously. And I would also say that 99% of the suicide bombings are just what they appear to be. But from all of the stuff I have read about Mossad and how they work I wouldn't doubt that they have their hand in a small percent of the bombings, especially if the timing of a particular bombing is going to give some benefit to Israel. ie. a major one before a peace deal, that they might not approve of,etc. I am not saying this to make any kind of "moral judgement" if it works, it works.

[Excorcism]

A lot of folks just don't understand reverse psychology

Wailing about the "horror" of war, and telling the world you'll never, ever fight in such-and-such conflict is a SURE way to get dragged into it

[Take a look at Wilson and WWI for a good example of this phenomenon]

The Iranian president has just told the Americans that he wants to fight them.

The US will now be MORE cautious in its dealings with Iran (you can be sure the guys in the Pentagon are asking themselves "what nasty piece of hardware have the Russians given him to make him so confident?")

Belligerent Iranian statements like this one make a US invasion of Iran LESS likely


I always just figured the damn government of iran was trying to increase relations with it's allies in the Middle East and gain further support by shouting off anti-Israel rhetoric, that will never be likely to happen, at least from Iran.

[dave777]

"Here you go, Mr. Bush, it's even gift wrapped on a silver platter."

What a fucking moron.

And bush would not have attacked regardless?

[Starr]

And bush would not have attacked regardless?


Exactly............

And from the earlier topic, tell me this shit does not work to their advantage and that they don't love it:

Sharon vows to avenge bomb attack
Thursday 27 October 2005, 13:48 Makka Time, 10:48 GMT

Sharon said Palestinian leaders were failing to fight terrorism

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has promised an open-ended offensive against Palestinian armed groups after a bomber killed five Israelis in the coastal city of Hadera.


Sharon said on Thursday that there could be no advance towards peace now because of the "absolute failure of the Palestinian Authority in the fight against terrorism".

"Our action will be broad and will not stop until it brings about a cessation of terrorism," Sharon said ahead of a meeting with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in Tel Aviv.

Sharon had agreed to an offensive in the northern West Bank against the resistance movement Islamic Jihad, which claimed responsibility for the bombing to avenge the killing of a top commander on Monday, security sources said.

Missile strikes

No timetable was given for the West Bank offensive amid the worst flare-up of violence since Israel left Gaza last month after 38 years of occupation.

"Our action will be broad and will not stop until it brings about a cessation of terrorism"

Ariel Sharon,
Israeli Prime Minister

Also on Thursday, Israeli aircraft launched six missile strikes on the Gaza Strip, saying they were to stop rocket fire from the territory. There were no casualties.

Meanwhile occupation soldiers arrested the 20-year-old bomber's father in the northern West Bank on Thursday. Another nine suspected militants were held.

The bombing on Wednesday dealt a serious blow to an eight-month-old truce and international hopes for a revival of peacemaking after Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip last month.

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

[Niko Bellic]

"Our action will be broad and will not stop until it brings about a cessation of terrorism"

I have no problem with that.

[Niko Bellic]

But apparently you are not old enough, or perhaps you are too old and too senile, to remember the reason they took these hostages. Can you name that reason? It should be readily apparent to any morally-minded person, that, in that particular situation of affairs, such an act is wholly justified, and you yourself would have done the very same thing in that situation, there can be no doubt.

I judge these things in more of an us vs. them way, than applying any morality to it. I'm a flag waving American yahoo.:)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/Synikul/us_flag_ani_002.gif

[Starr]

the Adl weighs in:

www.adl.org/media_watch/newspapers/20051101-NYTimes.htm

It is heartening that so many world leaders have stood up to express outrage over the remarks by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran calling for Israel's destruction ("Western Leaders Condemn the Iranian President's Threat to Israel," Oct. 28).

But in the case of Iran, which has rattled its anti-Israel and anti-America sabers for nearly three decades, often with bizarre spectacles aimed at distracting its restive public, words clearly are not enough. All civilized nations that maintain diplomatic relations with the Iranian regime must follow their words with action - be it in the form of tough sanctions, diplomatic isolation or expulsion from the United Nations.

It is time for the international community to serve a wake-up call. Western leaders should deliver an ultimatum to Iran's hard-line clerics - say, by giving them 30 days to retract their anti-Israel statements or suffer immediate consequences. (a Kike's chutzpah. The Iranians are shaking I am sure.)
It is time for the world to hold Iran's leadership to account for its bald-faced attempts to further destabilize the Middle East and disrupt the region's inevitable march toward reform.

[Gorilla]

Let the Iranians have the bomb, use it, then wipe them off the map as well. This principle is applicable to many situations.

[Jimbo Gomez]

The bomb should only be owned by civilized nations. Let those savages kill eachother with rocks and sticks Noddy. You don't see France or England nuking eachother whenever they quarrel.