Portuguese Negroids / Negroid Portuguese?

[BillOfLanding]

http://www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/3.html


Are the Portuguese mulattos?

The Portuguese obviously are not mulattos in the 50-50 black-white sense of the word. However, the Portuguese are among the most racially mixed people in Europe. Scientists believe much of their Negroid ancestry was introduced through the slave trade within the past 600 years. I'll leave it up to the reader to decide whether or not the Portuguese qualify as mulattos under the second meaning of "mulatto", "a person of mixed white and black ancestry". But, certainly, if any European nationality deserve to be called "mulattos", it is the Portuguese.

Guenther remarked that Portugal "shows a particularly well-marked Negro strain." DNA testing confirms the longstanding belief -- captured here by Madison Grant (1933) -- that the Portuguese have more black ancestry than any other European nation.

During the great years of Portuguese exploration and colonization in the fifteenth, sixteenth, and seventeenth centuries, it has been estimated that a million Portuguese, mainly young men, went to the tropics, and for the most part never came back. Negroes were imported to take their places and to do the work of the country. Intermarriage of these Negroes with the old population left Portugal with a larger amount of Negro blood than any other European country, and greatly impaired its ability to contribute to the progress of civilization. Thus Portugal, which, when dominated by the Nordics, had set an extraordinary example of progress in many ways, now contributes relatively little to such progress . . .

Negroid DNA in Portugal
Depending on region, the Portuguese have 5-10% sub-Saharan maternal lineages (L haplogroups). M1 is East African in origin, so the Central Portuguese have about 11% Negroid maternal ancestry. (Pereira et al. 2000)

In addition to Negroid maternal ancestry, Carvalho-Silva et al. (2001) found sub-Saharan Y-chromosome haplogroup 8 in Portugal at a frequency of 1.1% (n=93).

Other studies have failed to detect sub-Saharan Y-chromosomes in Portugal. However, I think it may be significant that the study cited above did detect HG8 in a sample of Portuguese. Apart from Rosser et al. (2000), which found HG8 in Sardinian and French samples, and another study which found sub-Saharan haplotypes in Corsica, I believe this is the only time I've seen a sub-Saharan Y-chromosome detected in a European population (Update: Greece is now on the list of European countries in which sub-Saharan male ancestry has been detected).

In any event, the Negroid paternal contribution in the Portuguese is much smaller than the Negroid maternal contribution, which is to be expected if the Negroid strain was introduced into Portugal as a result of the Atlantic slave trade.

The Negroid genetic contribution in Portugal could be something like 3-6% of total genes. Though an extraordinarily high level of sub-Saharan ancestry by European standards, this ancestry is minimal enough that it seems unlikely that it markedly affects the phenotypes of most Portuguese. But, through recombination, it's not inconceivable that some Portuguese exhibit Negroid traits due to slave admixture.

Also, the fact that levels of Negroid ancestry in Portugal apparently vary by region tells us that the distribution of Negroid genes is not uniform. If there is also genetic structure by sub-region and social class (as seems likely), there is a reasonable likelihood that some groups of Portuguese are greatly above the national average in their levels of black genes, and those groups might show external signs of their Negroid ancestry. Update: This prediction of mine seems to have been vindicated by a recent report that "sub-Saharan input" is "above 20%" in certain rural areas of Portugal, "where black African physical features occasionally mildly manifest themselves in the natives". I don't have a full citation for this report, which was apparently transcribed from a print journal and posted to the web by someone intent on minimizing the importance of the sub-Saharan component in the Portuguese, but no one disagrees that these native Portuguese with manifestly sub-Saharan features exist.

Update: According to the latest paper on the subject (Gonzalez et al. 2003), some of Portugal's Negroid admixture may date to the Neolithic. Guenther (see below) was probably correct to ascribe the Negroid element in Portugal to both ancient and recent sources.



Portuguese phenotypes
There is no doubt that some Portuguese do in fact show Negroid traits. European travellers in previous centuries remarked on this fact, and even some modern Portuguese will acknowledge the presence of Negroid traits in Portugal. In particular, I know of a Portuguese individual who has noted that some of the inhabitants of the central Portuguese town of Nazare are "negro looking". After examining photos of Nazare residents (see below), I have to concur. Note: these photos date from ca. 1970 and earlier, and Nazare is a fishing village 150 km north of Lisbon, ruling out the possibility that these individuals are recent immigrants. These Portuguese show clear Negroid strains. (Note, as mentioned above, there are apparently Portuguese with even stronger Negroid strains in the "rural areas around the towns of Alcácer do Sal and Alter do Chão".)



Left-to-right: (1) Notice the position of the malars (cheekbones) and the overall shape of the face; flattened nose; texture of the hair (2) platyrrhine nose; frizzy hair (3) even in this blurry pic, the boy's non-Caucasoid heritage is obvious (4) prognathism; receding chin; low-rooted nose; characteristically Negroid zygomatics


Additional examples of Portuguese with Negroid strains


Left: Portuguese man, classified by Guenther (1929) as Mediterranean with Negroid admixture. Right: Portuguese woman, classified by Guenther as Alpine with possible Negroid strain.


Typical Portuguese man


Above: This man, chosen by Dixon (1923) to illustrate the Portuguese type, could easily pass for a (Negroid-admixed) North African.


African slaves in Portugal
From the entry on Portugal in the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica:
After 1450 yet another ethnical element was introduced into the nation, through the importation of African slaves in vast numbers. Negroid types are common throughout central and southern Portugal. No European race confronted with the problem of an immense coloured population has solved it more successfully than the Portuguese and their kinsmen in Brazil; in both countries intermarriage was freely resorted to, and the offspring of these mixed unions are superior in character and intelligence to most half-breeds. . .

The normal type evolved from this fusion of many races is dark-haired, sallow-skinned, browneyed and of low stature.

. . . in 1434 the first consignment of slaves was brought to Lisbon; and slave trading soon became one of the most profitable branches of Portuguese commerce.

In order to understand the apparently sudden collapse of Portuguese power in 1578—1580 it is necessary to examine certain facts and tendencies which from the first rendered a catastrophe inevitable. Chief among these were the extent of the empire and its organization, the financial and commercial policy of its rulers, the hostility, often wantonly provoked, of the chief Oriental states, the depopulation of Portugal and the slave trade, the expulsion of the Jews, the growth of ecclesiastical influence in secular affairs, and the decadence of the monarchy.

While the country was being drained of its best citizens, hordes of slaves were imported to fill the vacancies, especially into the southern provinces. Manual labour was Trade, thus discredited; the peasants sold their farms and emigrated or flocked to the towns; and small holdings were merged into vast estates, unscientifically cultivated by slaves and comparable with the latifundia which caused so many agrarian evils during the last two centuries of the Roman republic. The decadence of agriculture partly explains the prevalence of famine at a time when Portuguese maritime commerce was most prosperous. The Portuguese intermarried freely with their slaves, and this infusion of alien blood profoundly modified the character and physique of the nation. It may be said without exaggeration that the Portuguese of the “age of discoveries “ and the Portuguese of the 17th and later centuries were two different races.

Whether or not genes from African slaves "profoundly modified the character and physique of [Portugal]" is open to question. In pigmentation, Portugal is one of the darkest areas in Europe. Coon notes:

(1) that the Portuguese are almost uniformly brunet in pigmentation and (2) that there are no regions in Portugal in which brachycephaly is as important as in the Asturias and Galicia. In fact, Portugal contains some of the lowest cephalic index means on the continent of Europe. . .
Negroid blood, introduced into Portugal through the medium of freed slaves, has largely been absorbed. The liberated negroes settled mostly in the cities, where negroes from the Portuguese colonies are still to be seen in some numbers. The liberality of the Portuguese social attitude toward persons of different race has prevented the retention, as in Arabia and the United States, of a stigmatized negroid class. On the whole, the absorption of negroes by the Portuguese has had no appreciable effect on the racial position of the country. Portugal remains, as it has been since the days of the Muge shell-fish eaters, classic Mediterranean territory.

Dark pigmentation and low cephalic indexes seem consistent with Negroid admixture. Of course, they are also consistent with descent from "Mediterraneans". I accept that the Portuguese are largely descended from "Mediterraneans" (including, as it happens, a very significant North African component), and I doubt the absorption of slave blood drastically altered the appearance of the Portuguese people. Still, subtle changes (perhaps accounting for some of the differences between the Spanish and the Portuguese) can not be ruled out. The question of exactly what phenotypic effect the absorption of black slaves had on the Portuguese people is probably unanswerable. While Coon states that "the absorption of negroes . . . has had no appreciable effect on the racial position of the country" and "Portugal remains classic Mediterranean territory", the idea of a "Mediterranean race" has been discredited, and genetics suggest that many of the, for example, North Africans Coon considered "classic Mediterraneans" no doubt would have had substantial Negroid admixture. As Coon himself acknowledges, the Mediterranean skull "often carries a slight negroid tendency". Guenther detected a strong Negroid strain in the Portuguese phenotype, though he admitted some of the admixture may be ancient in origin.

the Portuguese seem to be racially distinguished from the more homogeneous Mediterranean Spaniards by a heavier strain of that Negro blood which is recognizable, too, in Spain. Is this Negro strain to be referred only in greater part to a mixture brought about in the Portuguese African colonies; and have we to do here also with a Negro palaeolithic remnant driven into the extreme south-west? In any case the importation of black slaves into Portugal was formerly very heavy, and the Moorish dominion brought into Portugal, as it did into Spain, much 'African' blood, mainly of the Oriental, Hither Asiatic, and Negro races.
Either way, little doubt can exist that the Portuguese did mix with their slaves, and on a larger scale than elsewhere in Europe.

The researchers themselves explain L lineages in Portugal as follows:

We hypothesise that the recent Black African slave trade could have been the mediator of most of the L sequence inputs . . . many sub-Saharan individuals entered the region during the slave trade period, from its very beginning (middle 15th century) until its total ban in the late 19th century. . . it seems . . . likely that most of the L lineages found nowadays in Portugal have been carried by African slaves, since the country was actively involved in the Transatlantic slave trade. Nine out of 17 L sequences found in this study showed matches with widespread African sequences, and with regard to the 8 remaining sequences the absence of matches can be due to the present bias in the description of sub-Saharan mtDNA variability. Broad areas corresponding to Ivory Coast, Angola and Mozambique, which represented very important sources of African slaves, remain uncharacterised.
There were more African slaves in Portugal than in any other European country: in 1550, Lisbon boasted 10000 resident slaves in population of 100000, and Portugal as a whole probably had over 40000 (Thomas, 1998). In the mid-sixteenth century the birth of slaves' children was stimulated in Portugal for internal traffic purposes. Inter-breeding between autochthonous individuals and African slaves certainly occurred and the predominant mating must have been between slave African females and autochthonous males, due to social pressures and also for legal reasons: offspring of slave females would be slaves, whereas oåspring of slave males would not. Therefore, breeding between slave African males and white females, besides being socially repressed, would not bring any economic profit. If the pattern of genetic admixture was markedly sex influenced, the signature of this recent African influence would be expected to be very different in the maternally inherited gene pool and in the paternally inherited one. In a recent study based on Y chromosome biallelic markers (Pereira et al. 2000) we have reported the absence of typical sub-Saharan haplogroups in the Y chromosome Portuguese pool. This finding, and the detection of L sequences at 7.1% in the mitochondrial pool, both seem to support the above-mentioned pattern of admixture with African slaves. (Pereira et al. 2000)

This explanation is consistent with the distribution of L lineages within Portugal -- highest in central Portugal and southern Portugal (where large numbers of the slaves were imported), and lowest in Northern Portugal.


The Germanic character of Portuguese achievement
Starting in the fifth century, Germanic tribes assumed control of the Iberian peninsula. It was the descendants of these tribes who (with some help from the Franks and other Germanic peoples of Europe) would reconquer Iberia from the muslims.

Traditionally, the reconquest of Iberia from the Moslems began with Pelayo "the Goth" and the battle (e. 721) near Cangas de Onis, below the Peñas de Europa in Asturias. . . .

Alfonso II asked for and received aid from Charlemagne in 795. The aid of the Franks made possible Alfonso's advance into Middle Portugal, which reached at least as far as Lisbon. (Source)

Later, it was people of the same Germanic stock who would launch the age of exploration. That the Germanic element was preserved among the more important classes can be seen in the description of Portugal's greatest poet, Luís Vaz de Camões (1524-1580), author of "Os Lusíadas":

He was of the old blue blood of the Peninsula, the Gothic blood, the same that gave birth to Cervantes. He was blond, and bright-haired, with blue eyes, large and lively, the face oval and ruddy -- and in manhood the beard short and rounded, with long untrimmed mustachios -- the forehead high, the nose aquiline; in figure agile and robust; in action 'quick to draw and slow to sheathe,' and when he was young, he writes that he had seen the heels of many, but none had seen his heels. Born about the year 1524, of a noble and well-connected family, educated at Coimbra, a university famous for the classics, and launched in life about the court at Lisbon, he was no sooner his own master than he fell into troubles. (Woodberry 1920, 203-4)
In addition to being Nordic himself, Camões subscribed to a Germanic ideal of beauty in the opposite sex.

And who can boast he never felt the fires,
The trembling throbbing of the young desires,
When he beheld the breathing roses glow,
And the soft heavings of the living snow;
The waving ringlets of the golden hair,
And all the rapt'rous graces of the fair?
(Excerpt from Portuguese epic poem "Os Lusíadas")

Keeping in mind the above, it becomes somewhat irrelevant to racial readings of history whether all Portugal's Negroid blood was introduced as a result of the Atlantic slave trade, or if, as seems likely, Negroid genes had also previously entered Portugal during the Neolithic. Some would suggest that Portugal sank to the sorry state we find it in today as a result of the Germanic-descended elite being absorbed into the Negroid-mixed Mediterranean masses.


Addendum
Under pressure from me, RM did add the information on Negroid mtDNA in Portugal to his page. However, RM continues to insist that southern Europeans have no more non-white admixture than northern Europeans.


mtDNA haplogroup L3
One additional point to mention. Although he added some information on Negroid mtDNA in Portugal, RM claims:
. . . in the Portugal study, there was debate about the origin of one of the markers (L3), which, if it turns out to be Caucasoid- rather than Negroid-specific, would reduce the total amount of black admixture in the Portuguese to 1.65%.
The "doubt" was expressed about "some" of the L3* lineages that "might" have non-African origin:
With respect to the L sequences, it is widely accepted that they have a sub-Saharan origin, excepting some L3* lineages that, as analysis of Figure 4 suggests, might indeed have a non-African origin. . . However, it seems more likely that most of the L lineages found nowadays in Portugal have been carried by African slaves . . .

Nine out of 17 L sequences found in this study showed matches with widespread African sequences, and with regard to the 8 remaining sequences the absence of matches can be due to the present bias in the description of sub-Saharan mtDNA variability. Broad areas corresponding to Ivory Coast, Angola and Mozambique, which represented very important sources of African slaves, remain uncharacterised. (Pereira et al. 2000)

It is true that there may be some L3* lineages in Europe that aren't of recent African origin. However, a later paper should clear up any "doubt" that Portugal has sub-Saharan L3 lineages.
It rather seems likely that the southern African mtDNA pool received a package of L2/L3 mtDNAs (of limited diversity) through Bantu migrations. In particular, L3e1 must have been prominent in this `southern Bantu package',although also L3e2 and L3e3 participated to some extent. The relatively high frequency of L3e in the Brazilian mtDNA pool may then be explained by the fact that the majority of the slaves that arrived in Brazil came from Bantu groups, mainly from Angola. The sporadic occurrences of L3e (and other sub-Saharan haplogroups; Pereira et al. 2000) in Portugal is then not surprising in view of early slave trade and back migration from the colonies. (Bandelt et al. 2001)
L3 is also found in Mozambique, another former Portuguese colony in sub-Saharan Africa:
Here, we present hypervariable region I (HVRI) and II (HVRII) data for Mozambique, a south-east African population which was a Portuguese colony between 1752 and 1975. . .

All well-characterised African L3 clusters are present in Mozambique, as well as one less well characterized group . . .

As possible remnants of the Bantu expansion through east towards south Africa, we detected all the haplogroups that have been implicated in this expansion, that is L3b, L3e1a and a subset of L1a sequences. A tentative dating of some L2a sequences, the most frequent haplogroup in the Mozambique sample, by postulating two founder types, as suggested by their low diversity and star-like phylogenies, displayed an age range overlapping the Bantu expansion, although an earlier arrival of these types cannot be excluded. Recent gene flow from Atlantic Africa seems the most probable explanation for the detection of one L1b and one L3e4 sequence in Mozambique. (Pereira et al. 2001)


Sources
Bandelt et al. Phylogeography of the human mitochondrial haplogroup L3e: a snapshot of African prehistory and Atlantic slave trade. Ann Hum Genet 2001 Nov;65(Pt 6):549-63

Carvalho-Silva et al. The phylogeography of Brazilian Y-chromosome lineages. Table 1. Am J Hum Genet 2001 Jan;68(1):281-6

Dixon, R.B. The Racial History of Man. New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1923.

Gonzalez et al. Mitochondrial DNA affinities at the Atlantic fringe of Europe. Am J Phys Anthropol 2003 Apr;120(4):391-404.

Grant, Madison. The conquest of a continent; or, The expansion of races in America. New York: C. Scribner's Sons, 1933.

Günther, H. F. K. Rassenkunde Europas. Munich: J. F. Lehmanns Verlag, 1929.

Pereira et al. Diversity of mtDNA lineages in Portugal: not a genetic edge of European variation. Ann Hum Genet 2000 Nov;64(Pt 6):491-506

Pereira et al. Prehistoric and historic traces in the mtDNA of Mozambique: insights into the Bantu expansions and the slave trade. Ann Hum Genet 2001 Sep;65(Pt 5):439-58

Rosser et al. Y-Chromosomal Diversity in Europe Is Clinal and Influenced Primarily by Geography, Rather than by Language. Table 1. Am J Hum Genet 2000 67:1526-1543.

Woodberry, G. E. The Torch, and Other Lectures and Addresses. New York: Harcourt, Brace & Howe, 1920.


Additional Reading
Disclaimer: Linking doesn't necessarily imply I endorse linked sites.

The Black Man's Gift to Portugal

Portugal in the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica

[Aryan Imperium]

From my experience of seeing Portuguese and Spanish tourists they stand out a mile,a very distinctive negroid trait to be found in the majority of them.
`Mediterranean` should read `negroid`.

[Felix the Cat]

Typical Portuguese man

http://www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/portugal/dixon.jpg

Wtf?http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/9144/null5vt.gif

[Halo]

The author is crazy. This: http://www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/portugal/dixon.jpg is far, far, FAR from the real typical portuguese.

[Aryan Imperium]

The author is crazy. This: http://www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/portugal/dixon.jpg is far, far, FAR from the real typical portuguese.

Indeed, they are usually a little darker and more negroid in appearance.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Indeed, they are usually a little darker and more negroid in appearance.


Stop trolling.

[Halo]

Indeed, they are usually a little darker and more negroid in appearance.
Do not speak about which thee does not know. I freaking live here. We are actually quite lighter and a thousand times more caucasoid in appearence.

[dirtymike]

Do not speak about which thee does not know. I freaking live here. We are actually quite lighter and a thousand times more caucasoid in appearence.Very true sir ,many if not most of the Portuguese are very white in appearance. I have had a lot of interaction with a lot of Portuguese/americans in california and most of them appear white .I have always liked them in general and on the whole they are a fine people. The women are also beautiful and good breeders I might add.Don't let these asshats wind you up. If DNA tests were done on all the people who post most of this shite they would cry like babys ha ha .ill PM you

[Arrow Cross]

From my experience of seeing Portuguese and Spanish tourists they stand out a mile,a very distinctive negroid trait to be found in the majority of them.
`Mediterranean` should read `negroid`.
Let me guess...every non-Nordic European race is a bunch of "Negroid Untermenschen"?

[OVERWATCH]

Here is a rebuttal of Arthur Kemp's theories on the Portugese, which was the first post in this thread:

http://racialreality.shorturl.com/

[Van Heutsz]

While Aryan Imperium is a joke, the topic merits serious discussion. In a course that I'm now taking - European Overseas Expansion - the professor started with a class on the magnificent contributions of the Portuguese in expanding our knowledge of the non-European world. He later also mentioned miscegenation in Latin-America and slavery. During a short break I approached him and enquired if it was true that the Portugese were unique in keeping a large number of Black slaves in their home country and he confirmed this. When I then asked whether this had resulted in any meaningful amound of admixture he told me that when visiting certain parts of the country one could still see some ´negroid´ (his word) appearance in the people. So yeah, there has been pretty widespread race-mixing between Portugese and Blacks.

This leads to an interesting question. The two poorest parts of Western-Europe are Portugal and Southern-Italy. Coíncendentally they are also the most non-European parts from a genetic point of view. What does this hold for those people who claim that immigrants only have to shed their culturel and adopt those of their new country to become fully integrated? Maybe culture and race (genetics) cant be so neatly separated after all.

[Halo]

Here is a rebuttal of Arthur Kemp's theories on the Portugese, which was the first post in this thread:

http://racialreality.shorturl.com/
And here is the refutal of the rebuttal: http://www.geocities.com/refuting_kemp/ ?
I am confused.

[Aryan Imperium]

Do not speak about which thee does not know. I freaking live here. We are actually quite lighter and a thousand times more caucasoid in appearence.

I only have the evidence of my own eyes.
The Portuguese tourists that visit northern Europe stand out from the native populations.I can detect them from a distance before I hear them speak.There is nothing `white` about them.They are a product of miscegenation as the opening post to this thread proves.
Now you may not like the thought of belonging to a mongrel nation but that is not my concern.The truth is more important than your hurt feelings.
Portugeuese are simply not Aryan.
The only Aryan element in Portugeuse society are the descendants of the Goths and other Germanic tribes providing they have kept their blood pure.
Southern Europe should be a warning to the rest of us as to what we may become unless we flush the alien virus out of Europe.

[OVERWATCH]

And here is the refutal of the rebuttal: http://www.geocities.com/refuting_kemp/ ?
I am confused.

Ah yes, that's the link I had meant to give (it is the rebuttal against Kemp re:Portugal, linked to from racial reality; somewhere out there is Kemp's rebuttal to the rebuttal by racial reality)

which would be this, I believe(but it touches on many subjects):

http://www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/

Kemp doesn't have much credibility in my eyes, he is an ideologue, and not a impartial historian nor anthropologist.

[Halo]

I only have the evidence of my own eyes.
The Portuguese tourists that visit northern Europe stand out from the native populations.I can detect them from a distance before I hear them speak.There is nothing `white` about them.They are a product of miscegenation as the opening post to this thread proves.
Now you may not like the thought of belonging to a mongrel nation but that is not my concern.The truth is more important than your hurt feelings.
Portugeuese are simply not Aryan.
The only Aryan element in Portugeuse society are the descendants of the Goths and other Germanic tribes providing they have kept their blood pure.
Southern Europe should be a warning to the rest of us as to what we may become unless we flush the alien virus out of Europe.
Well and that has what value? Zero? Or, if we are talking about empirical evidence, I have seen 400644 more portuguese people than you have, so I win.
Of course you can. It doesn't prove anything. 2% negroid population assimilated in a 98% white society four-hundred years ago does not change the genetic ancestry.
You do not seek the truth. You seek madness. And I have no problems with my lack-of whiteness. I am quite nordic, not that I value it as you do.
And exactly what are you? What is your nationality and ancestry?

[Ambrosio Spinola]

I love when the amateurs of racialism 101 come parading here with their latest racial discoveries found in MOTT.

[Slavic Enforcer]

From my experience of seeing Portuguese and Spanish tourists they stand out a mile,a very distinctive negroid trait to be found in the majority of them.
`Mediterranean` should read `negroid`.

LOL

The Spaniards I know are all definitely white.

[BillOfLanding]

I posted this article in order to spark a discussion on a topic which, as a Portuguese, I find most fascinating. My take on this is that to a certain extent, the world has subscribed to a point of view known as Luso-Tropicalism, endorsed for some time by right-wing leaders of both the Brazilian and the Portuguese state. This ideology was devised by a Dr. Gilberto Freyre, a mixed race northern Brazilian, and was adopted as a patriotic, anti-marxist political position both by right-wingers in Brazil as well as the colonialist Salazar-Caetano regime in Portugal. This official explanation of Portuguese "multi-racialness" was embraced by some liberals and especially by many anti-communist conservatives in Anglo-Saxon countries as a positive aspect of Portuguese colonialism which at the time was waging a war against pro-Marxist black nationalists in southern Africa. In turn this official Portuguese position was denounced by racialists as a degenrative aspect of the Portuguese, including common European Portuguese who never profitted from and had little or nothing to do with Portuguese colonialism and race-mixing.

[BillOfLanding]

Very true sir ,many if not most of the Portuguese are very white in appearance. I have had a lot of interaction with a lot of Portuguese/americans in california and most of them appear white .I have always liked them in general and on the whole they are a fine people. The women are also beautiful and good breeders I might add.Don't let these asshats wind you up. If DNA tests were done on all the people who post most of this shite they would cry like babys ha ha .ill PM you

Photo Album of Portuguese-American Marching Band of Artesia, California

http://www.artesiades.org/main/index.php?module=photoalbum&PHPWS_AlbumManager_op=list

1930
http://www.artesiades.org/main/images/photoalbum/3/band_1930a-500.jpg

1993
http://www.artesiades.org/main/images/photoalbum/3/Band_1993-500.jpg

2003
http://www.artesiades.org/main/images/photoalbum/3/ArtesiaBandAgualva.jpg

[Slavic Enforcer]

You agree that your people are mongrels:confused:

[BillOfLanding]

My people, European Portuguese are what they are. You say they are "mongrels". I believe Portugal is more homogenous in many aspects, particularly the aspects that count, than many other European nations. Only a small minority of Portuguese are colonial or lived in Portugal´s colonial possesions.

[Slavic Enforcer]

You say they are "mongrels".

No no, it seemed to me that that's your opinion. Because of that I asked you.

Regards.

[Anima Eternae]

Why would anyone trust a website with the domain name "white history"?

[BillOfLanding]

No no, it seemed to me that that's your opinion. Because of that I asked you.

Regards.

Thank you for clarifying your position, I posted this piece in order to spark a discussion on the merits of the "Portuguese are mongrels" idea as well as to see how widespread this position is.

[BillOfLanding]

Why would anyone trust a website with the domain name "white history"?

Because of the largely afrocentrist Black History which is taught as fact in many US schools where most of the students are white, some of which are interested in history.

[Vindex]

Their is a very large portuguese community that has cropped up where I live in the past decade and yes they are mixed between moors, Whites and negro. Thier are also paki's and mexicans here too and in a lines in the stores you really can't tell the difference between all of them put together. We also have a population of first generation nergo/white halfbreeds from the blacks and whites mixing. And the offspring do look like certain portuguese. But on the majority the portuguese are more moorish looking then plain negroid looking.

The behaviour of the portuguese is different then the North/West European stock here too. They are more like the arab's or paki's in their mindset and they do have the need to sport "bling" like niggers in a rap video.

A certain White family member who was of Germanic stock had a child with the typical portuguese type. And the kid looks strange like they picked it up at a North African bizzare. Gone are the bright blue eyes that are main trait in my family line with that thing.

[Vindex]

Now thier does exist a small percent of portuguese who are still Whites I have come across them before but they all tell me they are from the North part of the country.

[BillOfLanding]

Now thier does exist a small percent of portuguese who are still Whites I have come across them before but they all tell me they are from the North part of the country.

The recent Portuguese emigrants in Britain are made up of a good proportion of Cape Verdeans (with Portuguese passports) and other colonials who settled in the slums surrounding Lisbon, which explains their differing appearance from economic migrants from northern Portugal, who are native Portuguese. Portuguese in California are mostly American-born or long time immigrants (50s, 60s) and are mostly from the Azores Islands. A large % of dairy farmers in California are of Portuguese ancestry.

This YouTube video from SABC tv features the vicious attack and murder of a Portuguese "nigger" from Madeira and the rape of his wife in north-eastern South Africa.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFN8WDEe6BE

[dirtymike]

Photo Album of Portuguese-American Marching Band of Artesia, California

http://www.artesiades.org/main/index.php?module=photoalbum&PHPWS_AlbumManager_op=list

1930
http://www.artesiades.org/main/images/photoalbum/3/band_1930a-500.jpg

1993
http://www.artesiades.org/main/images/photoalbum/3/Band_1993-500.jpg

2003
http://www.artesiades.org/main/images/photoalbum/3/ArtesiaBandAgualva.jpgLike I said WHITE!!!

[Halo]

I only have the evidence of my own eyes.
The Portuguese tourists that visit northern Europe stand out from the native populations.I can detect them from a distance before I hear them speak.There is nothing `white` about them.They are a product of miscegenation as the opening post to this thread proves.
Now you may not like the thought of belonging to a mongrel nation but that is not my concern.The truth is more important than your hurt feelings.
Portugeuese are simply not Aryan.
The only Aryan element in Portugeuse society are the descendants of the Goths and other Germanic tribes providing they have kept their blood pure.
Southern Europe should be a warning to the rest of us as to what we may become unless we flush the alien virus out of Europe.

I dare you, on your honor, if you have any, to find Negroid characteristics on these typical, beautiful portuguese women:


http://onfinite.com/libraries/473132/2ae.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473133/6d2.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473134/046.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473135/315.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473136/a76.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473137/4f0.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473138/ff2.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473139/ad6.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473140/e05.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473141/0eb.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473144/d80.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473145/589.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473146/99b.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473143/6ea.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473147/b81.jpg
http://onfinite.com/libraries/473148/210.jpg
Prove me wrong, <insult deleted>

<image tags deleted>

[Aryan Imperium]

In what way are these women representative of the average Portuguese woman?
Why is it that the ones who go abroad on holiday always stand out from the indigenous population with their dark and sometimes negroid phenotype?
Is this the best you can do? A handful of pictures of half dressed sluts with badly bleached hair?
By the way the word is arsehole not asshole.

[Starr]

http://www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/portugal/dixon.jpg

I don't buy it. If this was actually the typical portuguese male, there would be little or no doubt about what is being said here. Which is, of course, not the case.

[Aryan Imperium]

http://www.white-history.com/refuting_rm/portugal/dixon.jpg

I don't buy it. If this was actually the typical portuguese male, there would be little or no doubt about what is being said here. Which is, of course, not the case.

HG I was forgetting that you had a liking for hispanic males.Are you not allowing your base desires to interfere with your `logic`?

[Starr]

HG I was forgetting that you had a liking for hispanic males.Are you not allowing your base desires to interfere with your `logic`?


I have never mentioned having a thing for hispanic males.:rofl: It is almost irritating that someone would say this about me, but I will let that go for now. And what does that have to do with what I said. I said that this male quite obviously does not look white, by any stretch of the imagination and if this was what the average male looked like in that country, what is stated in the article would be in little doubt.

[Halo]

In what way are these women representative of the average Portuguese woman?
Why is it that the ones who go abroad on holiday always stand out from the indigenous population with their dark and sometimes negroid phenotype?
Is this the best you can do? A handful of pictures of half dressed sluts with badly bleached hair?
By the way the word is arsehole not asshole.
In that they do not show negroid characteristics.
If all you are gonna give me is empirical evidence you may as well quit.
Sluts? :rofl:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asshole. I'm sorry.

[Aryan Imperium]

In that they do not show negroid characteristics.
If all you are gonna give me is empirical evidence you may as well quit.
Sluts? :rofl:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asshole. I'm sorry.

I do need to clarify one point here: I am not anti-souther European per se.
There are Aryan elements within the southern European and Latin American populations. I will take good blood where ever I see it. So do not infer or take any personal offence by my stance on this subject. For all I know you may be a pure Nordic.

[Starr]

When you said Hispanic I was thinking of the south of the U.S. border(american indian/spanish)variety. I am now guessing you were talking about Southern Europeans, which I have mentioned having a "thing" for. But I am sure you must know that I am not talking about anything that looks even remotely like that picture.

http://www.joblo.com/newsimages1/pacino.jpg
this is not the most attractive picture of Al Pacino(not aging well:( ) but this is along the lines of what I was talking about. Huge difference.

[Thomas777]

I dare you, on your honor, if you have any, to find Negroid characteristics on these typical, beautiful portuguese women:


http://onfinite.com/libraries/473132/2ae.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473133/6d2.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473134/046.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473135/315.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473136/a76.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473137/4f0.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473138/ff2.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473139/ad6.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473140/e05.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473141/0eb.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473144/d80.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473145/589.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473146/99b.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473143/6ea.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473147/b81.jpg
http://onfinite.com/libraries/473148/210.jpg



This is a great post. Portuguese and Spanish girls are incredible.

BTW:
This "debate" is completely retarded, and the "Nord/Med rivalry" is some asinine game concocted by atrophied minds.

<removed image tags>

[OVERWATCH]

This is going nowhere, fast.

[Commander]

I use to work with Portugese, there was a very large community of them near where I grew up. Portugese are not in any way, shape, or form, negros. To say such stupid things is a display of ignorance & some kinda personal dislike of Portugese.

I will admit, one of them who I worked with, his English was not the best, but that does not make him a sub-saharan African.

[Vindex]

The issue was the level of non-White mixture in the portuguese as a whole. The problem is these discussion in my opinion always become very heated and personal and emotional perceptions cloud science minded study.

On one hand posting a picture of obvious mixed portuguese does not prove one side of the debate and also posting a few pictures of Whites and ones who are not of a more noticed mixture does not prove the other side of the debate right. And either does invoking insults on people for not agreeing with you. As that in some way makes your side right.

Looking at the portuguese as a whole from a logical view I would make the statement that the greater part of them are mixed with other races with different levels of variation depending on the population demographics.

[Vindex]

In the times before White Nationalisms egalitarianism(social White racial marxism) turned the minds of many racially loyal people into the other side of the coin of the thing they dislike. It was known among many Whites that the south Europeans where not racially the same as the North/West Europeans and where generally referred to as "Latins" that was in a previous time it seems.

[LastResort56]

Vindex
In the times before White Nationalisms egalitarianism(social White racial marxism) turned the minds of many racially loyal people into the other side of the coin of the thing they dislike. It was known among many Whites that the south Europeans where not racially the same as the North/West Europeans and where generally referred to as "Latins" that was in a previous time it seems.

I was thinking the exact same thing when I recently visited SF and many of them claimed Sicilians to be white, even a few claiming middle easterners white as well.

[Felix the Cat]

Related thread: Is Nelly Furtado White? (http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13487)

[Professor John Frink]

I've seen a few contradictory studies on the extent of sub-Saharan admixture in Portugal, but a study carried out by Boris Malyarchuk on European Y-chromosomes suggested that most haplogroups in Portugal which appear to be sub-Saharan are remnants of pre-racial haplogroups from the first OoA exodus (i.e. not "Negorid").

[SlovenianNationalist]

It's funny when 'White Americans' start to claim how southern Europeans are "Negroes". Southern Euros are not more 'racially mixed' than Americans.

Anyway, I don't see why any southern European would care what a non-European Nordicist thinks about his nation. I don't care what Somalians think about Slovenia either.

[Slavic Enforcer]

In the times before White Nationalisms egalitarianism(social White racial marxism) turned the minds of many racially loyal people into the other side of the coin of the thing they dislike. It was known among many Whites that the south Europeans where not racially the same as the North/West Europeans and where generally referred to as "Latins" that was in a previous time it seems.

It was also known that Catholics and anybody but Anglo-Saxons aren't "really white". ;)

[Arrow Cross]

I'm not sure, if this absurd thread has any further use...

[B-Pep]

Anyone who says the Portugease are not white, especially if they mean it in a mulatto sense, is fucking stupid. I've come in contact with many Portugease people (in Argentina) and they are Aryans.

Aryan Imperium and Vindex: I'm very disappointed in your view of Portugease/Southern European people. I can tell you for a fact Spanish, Portugease, Greek, ETC people are extremely pleasent, warm, and beautiful (inside and out) by saying they are mulattoes you are actually in a way supporting ZOG's idea that race mixing is great. Considering the empires the Portugease and other Southern Europeans built (alot of them greater than "nordics" can ever dream of) you are in a way arguing for black/mulatto supremacy by holding these opinions.

Another thing: that picture with the negroid looks NOTHING like a Portugease person. It is often thought that people in southern Iberia like Antonio Banderas are moorish or something, in reality they are just very ancient Europeans (Basques, etc) who pre-date many other European sub-races.

[Ixtab]

For all the accusations of miscegenation in Southern Europe coming from American whites, it seems that Americans had much more historical contact with non-Caucasoid groups than anyone in Europe ever has. Indeed, the evidence indicates that their average admixture levels, though still low, match the highest levels found in Southern Europe (Portugal), while greatly exceeding the Southern European average.

"...for many base wretches amongst us take up with negro women, by which means the country swarms with mulatto bastards, and these mulattoes, if but three generations removed from the black father or mother, may, by the indulgence of the laws of the country, intermarry with the white people, and actually do every day so marry. Now, if instead of this abominable practice which hath polluted the blood of many amongst us, we had taken Indian wives in the first place, it would have made them some compensation for their lands.... We should become rightful heirs to their lands and should not have smutted our blood...."
(The Rev. Peter Fontaine of Virginia, 1757)



Statistics

Sociologist and anthropologist Robert Stuckert examined census and fertility data to estimate how many blacks in America had passed as white, and how many whites had African ancestry as a result. His statistical tables showed that during the 1940s, 15,550 light-skinned blacks per year crossed over to live as whites, for a total of about 155,500 for the decade. Based on these figures, he determined that by 1950, some 21% of whites (about 28 million people then) had black ancestry within the last four generations, and he predicted that this number would only grow in the decades to come.

(Robert Stuckert, Ohio Journal of Science, 1958)



Genetics


"In European Americans from State College [in Washington D.C.], the west African and native American genetic contributions are low (0.7% and 3.2%, respectively)."
(Shriver et al., Hum Genet, 2003)


* * *

"All nine major European haplogroups [H I J K T U V W X] were observed in our sample and did not differ significantly from a previous study of a similar North American control population (Torroni et al. 1994). In addition, a nearly identical percentage of individuals (8.2% in control subjects and 8.5% in patients with PD) did not fit into these nine predefined haplogroups and were classified as 'others.' This group most likely consists of rare European haplogroups (e.g. R or Z) or the historical admixture known to exist in the North American white population (Finnila et al. 2000; Richards et al. 2000)." [Note that R and Z mentioned in the article as examples of rare European haplogroups occur at a combined frequency of <1% in white Europeans (Am J Hum Genet, 2000)].

http://racialreality.shorturl.com/

[Starr]

Based on these figures, he determined that by 1950, some 21% of whites (about 28 million people then) had black ancestry within the last four generations, and he predicted that this number would only grow in the decades to come

I don't buy this for a second. 21%?:rofl: that would be nearly 1 in 5 people who are passing for white who have black ancestory, which generally is quite obvious, unlike for example, someone who could have native american ancestory.

I am just not seeing all these white folks walking around who look black in any way.

[B-Pep]

It's funny every single 'white' yankee I know claims to have a native american great grandmother. Are all yankees mestizos?

The argument that all yankees are mestizos or octoroons is actually more feasible than the one that southern europeans are mulattos, considering how soulless, prone to race-mixing, and negro-like the average "anglo-saxon" yankee is .

edit: to all you "Irish-Americans", there is a theory that the people who populate Ireland are in fact de-pigmented negroes. I forgot who it was who said this, but it was either Arthur Kemp or Guenther. Just because some guy pulls a theory out of his ass does not make it true.

[Ixtab]

I don't buy this for a second. 21%? that would be nearly 1 in 5 people who are passing for white who have black ancestory, which generally is quite obvious, unlike for example, someone who could have native american ancestory.

I am just not seeing all these white folks walking around who look black in any way.Quadroons are often indistinguishable from average whites.

[Starr]

[QUOTE=Nuctemeron]It's funny every single 'white' yankee I know claims to have a native american great grandmother. Are all yankees mestizos?

I am a descendent of pokahantas(sp). LOl. It is cool and makes them feel special to have the noble, proud, native american ancestor. White is boring, you know. Funny, you don't see a whole lot of people trying to jump on the "I am black"(not a reference to wiggers, but people who actually say they have black ancesory:p ) bandwagon.

The argument that all yankees are mestizos or octoroons is actually more feasible than the one that southern europeans are mulattos, considering how soulless, prone to race-mixing, and negro-like the average "anglo-saxon" yankee is .

Now, unfortunately you are all too correct, but I wouldn't say that was true of the 1950s which is when this 21% statistic is from. What we have today is mostly the result of shit cultural fads.

[B-Pep]

I am a descendent of pokahantas(sp). LOl. It is cool and makes them feel special to have the noble, proud, native american ancestor. White is boring, you know. Funny, you don't see a whole lot of people trying to jump on the "I am black" bandwagon.

Yes exactly. American 'whites' see miscegenation as a badge of honor and usually have little problem with their parents when girls bring Tyrone or guys bring some filipina home.

As a person who comes from a Southern European background/country I can tell you for sure race-mixers are seen as scum in my lands. Look at who the most "exclusivist" European communities in the US are: Greeks, Italians, Polish, all people who are considered "non-white" by certain mentally challenged individuals. Compare them to the north-westerners that are German, Swedish, English, and Irish americans, the biggest race mixers of all Europeans! Every mongrel i know is half Irish or half German.

Anyone who has a sincere want to defend our race has to put their imaginary views aside to fight for a greater white empire!

[Starr]

Yes exactly. American 'whites' see miscegenation as a badge of honor and usually have little problem with their parents when girls bring Tyrone or guys bring some filipina home.

On this I have to disagree. The nice multi culti white liberal, the kosher conservative or even the people who like to believe they have that elusive native american ancestor might jump up and down about how "we are all one race", but these same people still don't seem exactly approving if their daughter brings home Tyrone. Some might come right out and say something, but even those who do not, and are more subtle about it, still don't seem to like it in any way(this is usually the type that is going to have to deal with it more than others since they give mixed messages that might make their kids believe it is a way to rebel within "acceptable" limits) It is all fine and good for everyone else, but when it happens in their family, different story(kind of like homosexuality) a lot of times. Of course, this is not to say that there are not some people out there exactly like you describe.:sick:

It also seems to be viewed a little differently according to the race of the person in question(the white parent might be a little more accepting of an asian, for example, over a negro)and also the gender of their child. white girl bringing home Sambo is going to get a worse reaction.

[raven]

I'm not even going to touch on this extreme ignorance about my people. Seen it all before, same old, same old. People often mistake me for being of German or Polish origin... nevermind saying that I looked like a Paki or a beaner (which apparently Portuguese people look like right?). :rofl: Shouldn't the rabidly anti-southern euro nordicists be more concerned about mass immigration into their lands from the third world and their sister bringing home Tyrone rather than being preoccupied with us "swarthoids"? ;)

[Ixtab]

------Shouldn't the rabidly anti-southern euro nordicists be more concerned about mass immigration into their lands from the third world and their sister bringing home Tyrone rather than being preoccupied with us "swarthoids"? ;)Yes.

[OVERWATCH]

Quadroons are often indistinguishable from average whites.

That is false, because they still retain a strong negroid appearance.

typical example: Colin Powell.

[Ixtab]

That is false, because they still retain a strong negroid appearance.I said they are often, not always, indistinguishable from whites. I've seen mullatoes that look like normal white people.

[OVERWATCH]

I said they are often, not always, indistinguishable from whites. I've seen mullatoes that look like normal white people.

I'd say that, given my experience, the frequency of quadroons being indistinguishable from average whites is very low, and yes, sometimes the eye is decieving; however that is the very uncommon exception to the rule.

It may indeed be possible for the Portugese to have absorbed some very small amount of subsaharan blood from colonial times; I don't think it ought to matter; even to a white nationalist, such a thing ought to be insignificant.

[Ixtab]

I'd say that, given my experience, the frequency of quadroons being indistinguishable from average whites is very low,But that's the problem, isn't it? In the first place, you wouldn't be able to distinguish those quadroons who are indistinguishable from average whites. Thus, they don't form a part of your conscious experience. They are just everyday whites. You don't know they're quadroons.

[OVERWATCH]

But that's the problem, isn't it? In the first place, you wouldn't be able to distinguish those quadroons who are indistinguishable from average whites. Thus, they don't form a part of your conscious experience. They are just everyday whites. You don't know they're quadroons.

That is, unless you know their families, because while the exceptional and white-looking quadroon may fool you or I, the likelihood that their parents would also fool you or I would be so remote as to be essentially impossible.

[Vindex]

It seems things might have been different in S.America I have a portugese friend who has family in S.America but they are all upper caste Whites. Where I live I'am flooded with portugese who are racially identical to pakis in appearence and attitude. So I guess we are getting the lower castes.

I never made a absolute statement that all portuguese are either White as pure snow or the opposite. The answer is probably some place in the middle. If that offends you. You will have to cope with it.


Anyone who says the Portugease are not white, especially if they mean it in a mulatto sense, is fucking stupid. I've come in contact with many Portugease people (in Argentina) and they are Aryans.

Aryan Imperium and Vindex: I'm very disappointed in your view of Portugease/Southern European people. I can tell you for a fact Spanish, Portugease, Greek, ETC people are extremely pleasent, warm, and beautiful (inside and out) by saying they are mulattoes you are actually in a way supporting ZOG's idea that race mixing is great. Considering the empires the Portugease and other Southern Europeans built (alot of them greater than "nordics" can ever dream of) you are in a way arguing for black/mulatto supremacy by holding these opinions.

[Aryan Imperium]

I said they are often, not always, indistinguishable from whites. I've seen mullatoes that look like normal white people.

You clearly have a very loose concept as to what you regard as `white`.
If they look like white people then how do you know that they are mullatoes?

[Ixtab]

You clearly have a very loose concept as to what you regard as `white`.
If they look like white people then how do you know that they are mullatoes?Because the person I have in mind, a friend of mine some years ago, had a black biological mother and a white biological father, both of whom I have met. She has very fair skin, red hair, and is generally very Caucasian seeming, excepting minor facial anomolies which, to a racially conscious mind only, betray her Negroid heritage. All of my friends and family were astonished to know she was half black. But this is probably an exceptional case. I have read of other cases, though. With quadroons, I should imagine this to be somewhat more common. All of this, of course, proves nothing, but it's interesting nonetheless.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

I have worked all summer with hunderds of Potuguese here at the Hotel and have not noticed this negroid cowmanure. Sure they are swarthy but negroid?

[Felix the Cat]

1) Portuguese are white

2) Most of the people who speak Portuguese and/or have Portuguese names are not white (Brazilians, Africans, Indians)

The latter hugely outnumber the former, which is probably the cause of this confusion

[Aryan Imperium]

1) Portuguese are white

2) Most of the people who speak Portuguese and/or have Portuguese names are not white (Brazilians, Africans, Indians)

The latter hugely outnumber the former, which is probably the cause of this confusion

So according to your own argument most portuguese are heavily miscegenated which is basically what I said in my initial post.I am glad to see that you agree with me now.

[Halo]

So according to your own argument most portuguese are heavily miscegenated which is basically what I said in my initial post.I am glad to see that you agree with me now.
No. According to his argument many non-portuguese speak the portuguese language. Asians, brazilians and africans.

[diabloblanco]

No. According to his argument many non-portuguese speak the portuguese language. Asians, brazilians and africans.

Indeed, a far gretaer number of Non-Whites speak English. Does this mean that the Britisn/Anglo-Saxons are mongrels? Of course not.

[raven]

You mistook Brazilians, Africans and Indians (usually Goans), etc. who speak Portuguese for ethnically Portuguese? Just because they speak a bastardized version of the language doesn't mean they are Portuguese. That's like saying that the Afro-Carribbeans and South Africans are English because they speak English. Well no shit you'd think that we were negroid if you were that ignorant about our culture. :rofl: As an American, I would be more concerned about your sisters going to the blacks because its the cool thing to do rather than preoccupy yourself with Portuguese people whom make up only like 0.4% of the American population and that number is growing smaller thanks to the hyper multiplication of mestizos in the US.

In the end, it is in our interests that we deal with priorities first. And then if you want to kick me out afterwards, you can always try if you want. But nordicists don't do that. They go snivel in the corner about how blacks are taking away with aryan women and about how the jew controls everything. This petty hatred between northern/southern europeans is EXACTLY the type of division that the third world and liberals want. They hate the western world period. They wish to destroy the western world.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

OMG Teh Spanish are teh mestizo injun because they speak Spanish like in Guatemala!!111!!1 :rolleyes:


Notice how these clowns like to dwell in the past totally oblivious to the fact that in 2006 their Uber Nord societies are already more mixed than anything the renaissance Portuguese might have been. Also conveniently forgetting that acording to their flawed logic there would be no US citizen left without being a mongrell in 2006 after living door to door with real negros for over 300 years.

[Felix the Cat]

You mistook Brazilians, Africans and Indians (usually Goans), etc. who speak Portuguese for ethnically Portuguese?
To be fair, a lot of these people dishonestly claim to be "Portuguese" for legal/immigration reasons

Brazilians in Europe particularly tend to do this, since Portuguese citizens have EU residence rights but Brazilians do not

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Heh...quite correct cowcube...when I was living in Miami when you would chat with the local Cubans every one of them would swear he was not mixed and a direct decendant of some Spaniard family. Of course only looking at their mongrell faces would show otherwise.

[raven]

To be fair, a lot of these people dishonestly claim to be "Portuguese" for legal/immigration reasons

Brazilians in Europe particularly tend to do this, since Portuguese citizens have EU residence rights but Brazilians do not
Fair enough, I'm not denying that some of these people lie about their status. Some Brazilians can honestly claim to be ethnically Portuguese but the majority are not European. You have the Portuguese, Italians, Germans, Spaniards, etc. there but the majority of Brazil is mulato I'd say.

Heh...quite correct cowcube...when I was living in Miami when you would chat with the local Cubans every one of them would swear he was not mixed and a direct decendant of some Spaniard family. Of course only looking at their mongrell faces would show otherwise.
A large amount of the Cubans in Miami I think are Jews no? The Cubans that fled in exile to Miami were usually the ones with money I believe but I guess some of the poorer mulato/mestizo Cubans have immigrated in recent years too.

[Aryan Imperium]

No. According to his argument many non-portuguese speak the portuguese language. Asians, brazilians and africans.

I see so your argument is that instead of a majority of portuguese having negroid genes the reality is that there are a majority of non-portuguese living within Portugal and that all the portuguese are racially pure.
Is this your stance?

[Aryan Imperium]

Indeed, a far gretaer number of Non-Whites speak English. Does this mean that the Britisn/Anglo-Saxons are mongrels? Of course not.

But the vast majority of English speaking negroes do not have Anglo-Saxon genes.

[OVERWATCH]

But the vast majority of English speaking negroes do not have Anglo-Saxon genes.

There is an obvious difference between genetic outflow and inflow.

[Halo]

I see so your argument is that instead of a majority of portuguese having negroid genes the reality is that there are a majority of non-portuguese living within Portugal and that all the portuguese are racially pure.
Is this your stance?
No. You have never been to portugal so even if it was you could not argue with. My position is:
There is a MINORITY of ethnical portuguese that have negroid genes. The majority does not.
BUT, the majority of non-ethnic(legally, linguistically, etc.) portuguese are negroids or have negroid characteristics.

[Aryan Imperium]

No. You have never been to portugal so even if it was you could not argue with. My position is:
There is a MINORITY of ethnical portuguese that have negroid genes. The majority does not.
BUT, the majority of non-ethnic(legally, linguistically, etc.) portuguese are negroids or have negroid characteristics.

I see so if it is a bastardised portuguese they are `non-ethnic` portuguese?
Then we can all relax-clearly miscegenation in Europe isn`t happening!!

[Halo]

I see so if it is a bastardised portuguese they are `non-ethnic` portuguese?
Then we can all relax-clearly miscegenation in Europe isn`t happening!!
Gosh. Ethnic portuguese are caucasian.
Africans, and brazilians ARE NOT portuguese.
Of course there are mixed people who are ethnically portuguese but they are the minority, NOT the majority like you say.

[Arrow Cross]

Then we can all relax-clearly miscegenation in Europe isn`t happening!!
Nope sir, try looking elsewhere in Europe. England? Norway? Sweden? Denmark? Germany? Now, that IS miscegnation. And a quickly growing one.

[raven]

Don't bother explaining it to him Indecritivelism. There is *a lot* of ignorance in North America about European cultures. It's not that uncommon for Spaniards in the United States (tourists or those residing there) to say that they are from Spain and then being asked afterward, "Where in South America is that country?" Ebus I believe has touched upon that ignorance in North America. When a friend of mine had the Portuguese flag with him at a restaurant, a cashier lady asked him if that was the Brazilian flag. :rofl:

[Ambrosio Spinola]

I see so if it is a bastardised portuguese they are `non-ethnic` portuguese?
Then we can all relax-clearly miscegenation in Europe isn`t happening!!

Clearly by that faulty logic 90% of north american negroes are also north american anglos since all of them have significant white admixture and it would be wrong to classify them apart from those that have given them those white genes in the past.

Duh!

[Petyr Baelish]

I'd say that, given my experience, the frequency of quadroons being indistinguishable from average whites is very low, and yes, sometimes the eye is decieving; however that is the very uncommon exception to the rule.

The renowned physical anthropologist Carlton S. Coon actually touched upon the subject or racial admixture in the North American and Australian Anglophone populations in his Living Races of Man. If I am not mistaken, he cited the proportion of quadroons who are able to 'pass as white' as somewhere around 1/16. He also contrasted this number with the 1/2 of Australian half-castes (half-aborigine half-white persons) who are able to pass as white. His explanation was that skin-color is coded for in eight distinct loci amongst Negroids, and only two amongst Australoids, though I am not sure how accurate this claim is in light of modern genetic data.

[BillOfLanding]

In the times before White Nationalisms egalitarianism(social White racial marxism) turned the minds of many racially loyal people into the other side of the coin of the thing they dislike. It was known among many Whites that the south Europeans where not racially the same as the North/West Europeans and where generally referred to as "Latins" that was in a previous time it seems.

It is agreed amongst just about everybody that Latin southern Europeans and Portuguese are neither racially nor culturally identical to Germanic north-western Europeans. I agree that the Portuguese are very different from British people. Nevertheless, bad experiences with some Portuguese with nasty attitudes does not prove that Portuguese have significant sub-Saharan admixture.

[BillOfLanding]

To be fair, a lot of these people dishonestly claim to be "Portuguese" for legal/immigration reasons

Brazilians in Europe particularly tend to do this, since Portuguese citizens have EU residence rights but Brazilians do not

This is very true in relation to the very recent wave of Portuguese immigrants in Britain. Many British temporary employment agencies hire directly in Lisbon, where they attract a large number of:
1. Unemployed Cape Verdeans and other former colonials (or Portuguese-born first generation descendants of African immigrants in Portugal) with Portuguese passports.
2. Unemployed Brazilians with bogus Portuguese documents.

Portuguese from economically depressed northern Portugal who are now entering Britain are almost uniformly ethnic Portuguese, from a similar social stratum as the long-established Portuguese immigrants in other countries.

Portuguese visiting northern Europe as tourists would be economically mostly from the middle class or higher.

[BillOfLanding]

Fair enough, I'm not denying that some of these people lie about their status. Some Brazilians can honestly claim to be ethnically Portuguese but the majority are not European. You have the Portuguese, Italians, Germans, Spaniards, etc. there but the majority of Brazil is mulato I'd say.


In fact, it is not easy for Portuguese-descended Brazilians to LEGALLY obtain Portuguese nationality and documents. Unless both your parents were born in Portugal the process is very complicated, bureaucratic and time-consuming. What many Brazilians, most of whom are racially mixed, do is the following: First they enter Portugal with a common Brazilian tourist passport. Then they purchase fake Portuguese documents with fake names from organized criminals in Portugal. Thirdly they move to other countries in the EU. When the Portuguese authorities go after them after their Brazilian tourist visa expires they are long gone. The authorities in other EU countries, namely Britain, assume their documents are legit and don´t bother to verify the data with the Portuguese consulate. Therefore Britain is full of Brazilians passing off as Portuguese.

[raven]

In fact, it is not easy for Portuguese-descended Brazilians to LEGALLY obtain Portuguese nationality and documents. Unless both your parents were born in Portugal the process is very complicated, bureaucratic and time-consuming. What many Brazilians, most of whom are racially mixed, do is the following: First they enter Portugal with a common Brazilian tourist passport. Then they purchase fake Portuguese documents with fake names from organized criminals in Portugal. Thirdly they move to other countries in the EU. When they Portuguese authorities go after them after their Brazilian tourist visa expires they are long gone. The authorities in other EU countries, namely Britain, assume their documents are legit and don´t bother to verify the data with the Portuguese consulate. Therefore Britain is full of Brazilians passing off as Portuguese.
You bring up a very good point. Someone told me of a Brazilian who was born in Portugal at a young age whom has a Portuguese wife in Brazil that was unable to get documents/nationality in Portugal. The Portugal-born husband obviously had nationality and their children were able to obtain nationality but she was unable to do so because her family, while purely Portuguese, were in Brazil for many generations. It's pretty difficult. Obviously if I were to apply for citizenship it wouldn't be that difficult since my parents were born there and they have birth/marriage documents. But it does get difficult if your family has been outside of Portugal for multiple generations. Eventually I'm going to get Portuguese citizenship so as to prepare for the time when liberals destroy Soviet Canuckistan for good. As a person of southern european descent, it is *ridiculously* how things are in North America.

Back in the 50s/60s, southern euros were discriminated against but yet we prevailed and have affluence here now. That shit is all in the past. There is no reason to hold bad blood against anglo-celts for that. If anything what angers me about the average citizen in Canada is that they think that you are a demon if you are of european descent (including themselves) but if you are a non-european, you are an angel. My previous generation was discriminated for not being anglo (fair enough because that only made the previous generation stronger and more determined) but my present generation is hated for having white skin. *I hate it* How we are made to feel guilty here. If anything the southern euros in Canada were living very modesty while the Jews were already very affluent.

My parents sacrificed so much to get to where they were whereas the Jews just had to whine about the holocaust. My mom was working menial labour for a Jewish lady way back in the day and yet we are supposed to feel sorry for the Jews and hate Europeans? What the hell is that? Being a southern european anti would be like being a race traitor, having no pride in your people and totally forgetting your roots and history. That is why most of us are "tribalistic" in a sense. The vast majority of us still hold that connection to our roots. But unfortunately the liberals in North America are spreading that mental disease everywhere here... including some of our people (but generally southern european families are more old-fashioned and traditional).

And I sure as hell don't feel sorry for the minorities here who whine. We went through hardships before and now we are supposed to feel guilty for theirs? Fuck that. I just thought I'd bring this up because I feel that the perspective of the "ethnic" European is overlooked in this debate about racial relations. We are often lumped in with the same category as all Europeans and told that we are guilty of the hardship of minorities when we are not. I've been called an anti-semite before for having a "tough shit" attitude about Jewish people but I still stand by that "tough shit" attitude. They need to shut the fuck up and stop whining about the fucking Holocaust. They are not a disadvantaged group.

[B-Pep]

It is agreed amongst just about everybody that Latin southern Europeans and Portuguese are neither racially nor culturally identical to Germanic north-western Europeans. I agree that the Portuguese are very different from British people. Nevertheless, bad experiences with some Portuguese with nasty attitudes does not prove that Portuguese have significant sub-Saharan admixture.

It's funny you say that, the original Britons were mediterranean "niggers" who adopted Celtic culture.

Scots, Irish, and especially Welsh are almost racially identitical to us in terms of genes. (and in a lot of cases, physical looks) Are all those with ancestry from the British isles, who share quite a bit of genetics with us, island niggers now? The superficial differences such as a skintone or hair color have more to do with the fact that we adapted to a warm and sunny climate rather than any mixing with negroes or anyone else for that matter.

The only thing that divides Europeans are language, after that we all share a common bloodline.

[Felix the Cat]

Scots, Irish, and especially Welsh are almost racially identitical to us in terms of genes.
Welsh, possibly. But the Scots and Irish have a significant amount of Scandinavian ancestry which I do not believe is present in Southern Europeans

[raven]

The Portuguese natives are of Celt-Iberian extraction so yes there is a tie with the Celts. However thats not to say identical but there is some overlap yes. Let's not forget that examples of people with Anglo-Celt ancestry include Colin Farrell (Irish), Catherine Zita Jones (Welsh), Teri Hatcher (her parents were actually born in the UK I believe), etc. They all have "darker" phenotypes than I do for example. When you look at people like that, it wouldn't be a stretch to see that there is some overlap. It's not like all Anglo-Celts look the same.

[BillOfLanding]

It's funny you say that, the original Britons were mediterranean "niggers" who adopted Celtic culture.

Scots, Irish, and especially Welsh are almost racially identitical to us in terms of genes. (and in a lot of cases, physical looks) Are all those with ancestry from the British isles, who share quite a bit of genetics with us, island niggers now? The superficial differences such as a skintone or hair color have more to do with the fact that we adapted to a warm and sunny climate rather than any mixing with negroes or anyone else for that matter.

The only thing that divides Europeans are language, after that we all share a common bloodline.

There is some degree of genetic and even phenotype overlap between the Portuguese and British/Irish, especially those from Wales and certain parts of western Ireland, where the vestiges of the British Isles´ oldest inhabitants remain stronger. Nevertheless it is undeniable that the modern Portuguese and the modern British nations do have different cultures and different average phenotypes. This fact does not mean that Portuguese are largely negroid.

[BillOfLanding]

You bring up a very good point. Someone told me of a Brazilian who was born in Portugal at a young age whom has a Portuguese wife in Brazil that was unable to get documents/nationality in Portugal. The Portugal-born husband obviously had nationality and their children were able to obtain nationality but she was unable to do so because her family, while purely Portuguese, were in Brazil for many generations. It's pretty difficult. Obviously if I were to apply for citizenship it wouldn't be that difficult since my parents were born there and they have birth/marriage documents. But it does get difficult if your family has been outside of Portugal for multiple generations. Eventually I'm going to get Portuguese citizenship so as to prepare for the time when liberals destroy Soviet Canuckistan for good. As a person of southern european descent, it is *ridiculously* how things are in North America.

Many Brazilians with only 1 Portuguese grandfather or great-grandfather are now trying to obtain Portuguese nationality simply for economic reasons. The Portuguese Civil Registrars (Conservatórias do Registo Civil) from various districts, mostly those in northern Portugal such as Viana do Castelo, Viseu and Bragança have been recently inundated with requests for birth certificates issued in the late 19th or early 20th century from Brazilians who wish to get a Portuguese passport in order to emigrate to the EU. Many if not most of the requests provide scarce or incorrect information. In contrast virtually no requests for Portuguese nationality are received from Portuguese descendants in the US or other economically vibrant countries with older Portuguese communities. This behaviour is interesting given the fact that only until 40 or 50 years ago many Portuguese descended people in Brazil were ashamed of their heritage as the Portuguese were considered to be inferior immigrants when compared to Germans and northern Italians by the Brazilian elites.

Regarding fleeing to Portugal because of the liberals in Canada all I have to say is that their species is around just about everywhere, including right here in Portugal. In Portugal we have a certain type of liberal who puts his ideas and "enlightened vision" ahead of his own nation and people, both of which he secretly despises. They would ask why you would move from the liberal paradise of Canada to backwards old Portugal.



Back in the 50s/60s, southern euros were discriminated against but yet we prevailed and have affluence here now. That shit is all in the past. There is no reason to hold bad blood against anglo-celts for that. If anything what angers me about the average citizen in Canada is that they think that you are a demon if you are of european descent (including themselves) but if you are a non-european, you are an angel. My previous generation was discriminated for not being anglo (fair enough because that only made the previous generation stronger and more determined) but my present generation is hated for having white skin. *I hate it* How we are made to feel guilty here. If anything the southern euros in Canada were living very modesty while the Jews were already very affluent.

My parents sacrificed so much to get to where they were whereas the Jews just had to whine about the holocaust. My mom was working menial labour for a Jewish lady way back in the day and yet we are supposed to feel sorry for the Jews and hate Europeans? What the hell is that? Being a southern european anti would be like being a race traitor, having no pride in your people and totally forgetting your roots and history. That is why most of us are "tribalistic" in a sense. The vast majority of us still hold that connection to our roots. But unfortunately the liberals in North America are spreading that mental disease everywhere here... including some of our people (but generally southern european families are more old-fashioned and traditional).

And I sure as hell don't feel sorry for the minorities here who whine. We went through hardships before and now we are supposed to feel guilty for theirs? Fuck that. I just thought I'd bring this up because I feel that the perspective of the "ethnic" European is overlooked in this debate about racial relations. We are often lumped in with the same category as all Europeans and told that we are guilty of the hardship of minorities when we are not. I've been called an anti-semite before for having a "tough shit" attitude about Jewish people but I still stand by that "tough shit" attitude. They need to shut the fuck up and stop whining about the fucking Holocaust. They are not a disadvantaged group.

In many of these liberal countries it is OK to stereotype the local Portuguese while it is not OK to stereotype certain other ethnic groups, especially those of the more coloured variety. Snobish liberals, many of which are of the Jewish persuation, say things about the Portuguese they would never say about blacks or others. I read a newspaper article which stated that over in Bermuda the Portuguese, almost all of which are from São Miguel, are depised by the local blacks. The Portuguese virtually do all the work in Bermuda since the blacks have UK citizenship and something called "Bermuda Status" which entitles them to receive welfare, which a good proprtion of them happily receive, and also grants them access to good "low-stress" jobs in the public sector. When the Bermuda blacks see the Portuguese, most of which arrived in Bermuda dirt poor, prospering they get very angry and xenophobic.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

How did all that beach looting story end up? Swept under the carpet?

[dirtymike]

I dare you, on your honor, if you have any, to find Negroid characteristics on these typical, beautiful portuguese women:


http://onfinite.com/libraries/473132/2ae.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473133/6d2.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473134/046.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473135/315.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473136/a76.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473137/4f0.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473138/ff2.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473139/ad6.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473140/e05.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473141/0eb.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473144/d80.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473145/589.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473146/99b.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473143/6ea.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/473147/b81.jpg
http://onfinite.com/libraries/473148/210.jpg
Prove me wrong, <insult deleted>

<image tags deleted>
Fine white women !!! just to many clothes ,Ya should post some naked ones that are shaved ha ha :D

[BillOfLanding]

How did all that beach looting story end up? Swept under the carpet?

Are you refering to last year´s negro riot on a beach near Lisbon?

Well the incident led to the largest nationalist/racialist demonstration in the history of Portugal which attracted people of different generations and social backgrounds. After the media frenzy there was a more or concerted reaction by influential leftists, including many with power in the Portuguese media, to cover up and "rewrite" what actually happened. Leftist news commentators began repeating the line that "what you see in those videos didn´t actually happen" and that "there were only 50 blacks and not 500".

[Petr]

Kemp doesn't have much credibility in my eyes, he is an ideologue, and not a impartial historian nor anthropologist.
That is putting things very kindly. Kemp has no Ph.D, and his idea of sourcework is a pathetic joke.

Like Dienekes Pontikos put it:

"The fact that Arthur Kemp is the most popular white nationalist historical author on the Web speaks volumes about the current state of white nationalist historical “scholarship""

http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/articles/kemp/


Petr

[raven]

Many Brazilians with only 1 Portuguese grandfather or great-grandfather are now trying to obtain Portuguese nationality simply for economic reasons. The Portuguese Civil Registrars (Conservatórias do Registo Civil) from various districts, mostly those in northern Portugal such as Viana do Castelo, Viseu and Bragança have been recently inundated with requests for birth certificates issued in the late 19th or early 20th century from Brazilians who wish to get a Portuguese passport in order to emigrate to the EU. Many if not most of the requests provide scarce or incorrect information. In contrast virtually no requests for Portuguese nationality are received from Portuguese descendants in the US or other economically vibrant countries with older Portuguese communities. This behaviour is interesting given the fact that only until 40 or 50 years ago many Portuguese descended people in Brazil were ashamed of their heritage as the Portuguese were considered to be inferior immigrants when compared to Germans and northern Italians by the Brazilian elites.
The Brazilians bash the Portuguese but yet try to flock over to Portugal en masse. :rofl: Very typical of them.


Regarding fleeing to Portugal because of the liberals in Canada all I have to say is that their species is around just about everywhere, including right here in Portugal. In Portugal we have a certain type of liberal who puts his ideas and "enlightened vision" ahead of his own nation and people, both of which he secretly despises. They would ask why you would move from the liberal paradise of Canada to backwards old Portugal.
Yes I'm aware of the liberals there too. They are usually in the south and Lisbon. My family is from Sao Miguel which is just about the most conservative region of Portugal. Maybe this has to do with the fact that Sao Miguel is like 99.9% Portuguese (literally). The majority of those who immigrate to Sao Miguel are actually diaspora of Portuguese descent (which would include myself).

And which liberal are you talking about? Is it the Socialist PM (Socrates), that Black MP (whom I think is a Socialist) or that Left Block leader? (I forget his name, I just remember him as being anti-Portuguese in every way). I hate it when self-righteous liberals like that bash the country. If Portugal is so bad to them then they should go ask the thousands of North Americans of Portuguese descent living there already why they chose to live there.


In many of these liberal countries it is OK to stereotype the local Portuguese while it is not OK to stereotype certain other ethnic groups, especially those of the more coloured variety. Snobish liberals, many of which are of the Jewish persuation, say things about the Portuguese they would never say about blacks or others. I read a newspaper article which stated that over in Bermuda the Portuguese, almost all of which are from São Miguel, are depised by the local blacks. The Portuguese virtually do all the work in Bermuda since the blacks have UK citizenship and something called "Bermuda Status" which entitles them to receive welfare, which a good proprtion of them happily receive, and also grants them access to good "low-stress" jobs in the public sector. When the Bermuda blacks see the Portuguese, most of which arrived in Bermuda dirt poor, prospering they get very angry and xenophobic.
Yeah the snobish liberals don't really give a damn about the euros (no matter whom). Only about the minorites. All of a sudden we are guilty of "white guilt" to the liberals despite the fact that most Portuguese are descendants of humble rural farmers whom were never in a position to own a slave. I find it funny that the Portuguese now are doing well there (after initially entering with nothing) when those bermudan negros are just leeching off the government there. The Portuguese there should head back to Sao Miguel because its not worth living with a bunch of negroes over there, especially if they are going to treat them like that.

[Halo]

Is it the Socialist PM (Socrates), that Black MP (whom I think is a Socialist) or that Left Block leader? (I forget his name, I just remember him as being anti-Portuguese in every way).
His name is Anacleto Francisco Louçã. What is that about him being very anti-portuguese? I never heard that! But I heard from a friend of mine that he advocated the end of police to end crime. According to my friend, Louçã belives police creates crime.

[BillOfLanding]

Yes I'm aware of the liberals there too. They are usually in the south and Lisbon. My family is from Sao Miguel which is just about the most conservative region of Portugal. Maybe this has to do with the fact that Sao Miguel is like 99.9% Portuguese (literally). The majority of those who immigrate to Sao Miguel are actually diaspora of Portuguese descent (which would include myself).

And which liberal are you talking about? Is it the Socialist PM (Socrates), that Black MP (whom I think is a Socialist) or that Left Block leader? (I forget his name, I just remember him as being anti-Portuguese in every way). I hate it when self-righteous liberals like that bash the country. If Portugal is so bad to them then they should go ask the thousands of North Americans of Portuguese descent living there already why they chose to live there..

I am not talking about any person in particular. There exists a certain attitude in many of Portugal´s political elites which tends to over-value the apparent “greatness” of liberal-socialist northern European societies, such as Sweden, and dismisses any pride in Portuguese traditions or loyalty to Portugal as “regressive”, “backward”, “unEuropean”. They are submissive to foreigners in a colonial sort of way, even without recognizing this, and haughty and arrogant in relation to Portugal´s traditional way of life. For example, they would probably warmly agree with some Jew in Canada dismissing the Portuguese as this and that.


Yeah the snobish liberals don't really give a damn about the euros (no matter whom). Only about the minorites. All of a sudden we are guilty of "white guilt" to the liberals despite the fact that most Portuguese are descendants of humble rural farmers whom were never in a position to own a slave. I find it funny that the Portuguese now are doing well there (after initially entering with nothing) when those bermudan negros are just leeching off the government there. The Portuguese there should head back to Sao Miguel because its not worth living with a bunch of negroes over there, especially if they are going to treat them like that.

Bermuda is a Crown Colony of Britain and has an old White minority which basically runs things. This fact, in addition to tourism revenue and Bermuda´s position as a tax haven and off-shore banking centre, makes Bermuda very different from other English-speaking islands in the West Indies. Note, I know that Bermuda is not geographically a part of the Caribbean. The black Bermudans which make up +/- 60% of the population are overly dependant on welfare and low-stress public sector jobs. So that the economy functions properly, Bermuda´s Anglo elite depend on the Portuguese to “get the job done”.

[BillOfLanding]

His name is Anacleto Francisco Louçã. What is that about him being very anti-portuguese? I never heard that! But I heard from a friend of mine that he advocated the end of police to end crime. According to my friend, Louçã belives police creates crime.

Dr. Louçã is a crazed madman. The fact that the many Portuguese vote for him and that he is taken seriously by the Portuguese media speaks volumes as to Portugal´s current state.

[Halo]

Dr. Louçã is a crazed madman. The fact that the many Portuguese vote for him and that he is taken seriously by the Portuguese media speaks volumes as to Portugal´s current state.
Would you care to expand on why you call him that?
If you do not want to because it is off-topic, I understand :)

[BillOfLanding]

Would you care to expand on why you call him that?
If you do not want to because it is off-topic, I understand :)

It is indeed off-topic. Anyone who supports drug-use, uncontrolled immigration of negroes into Portugal, and homosexual lifestyles is obviously crazed and anti-Portuguese in that all of the above hurt the moral health of the Portuguese people.

[raven]

His name is Anacleto Francisco Louçã. What is that about him being very anti-portuguese? I never heard that! But I heard from a friend of mine that he advocated the end of police to end crime. According to my friend, Louçã belives police creates crime.
Note that I don't know much about the man but all of the things I've read about him and his party have been ridiculous. He is the typical radical leftist who advocates heavily about abortion "rights" ad-nauseum, about "immigrant rights", about how all illegal immigrants should be legalized, etc. There is just so much about that party that is anti-Portuguese. A true Portuguese party doesn't want to kill our children of the future, turn our sisters into self-centered child killers and flood the nation full of refugees and illegal immigrants. And the Left Block goes on and on about "racism", about how Portugal is too religious and all this crap.

[raven]

I am not talking about any person in particular. There exists a certain attitude in many of Portugal´s political elites which tends to over-value the apparent “greatness” of liberal-socialist northern European societies, such as Sweden, and dismisses any pride in Portuguese traditions or loyalty to Portugal as “regressive”, “backward”, “unEuropean”. They are submissive to foreigners in a colonial sort of way, even without recognizing this, and haughty and arrogant in relation to Portugal´s traditional way of life. For example, they would probably warmly agree with some Jew in Canada dismissing the Portuguese as this and that.
Yeah I'm well aware of this attitude over there. Socrates talked about wanting a "nordic democracy" in Portugal modelled after Sweden, Norway, etc. It's pretty sickening. This is why a lot of people in Portugal are apathetic towards politics. They have a pro-globalization/neo-liberalism party on the right and a socialist party that wants to be like scandinavia on the left and quite a few quacks on the far left that want to be even more like Sweden/Germany/Belgium/Holland/Soviet Canuckistan,etc. It would ruin the country.

Here in North America, the vast majority of people adhere to consumerism. Consumption and Materialism is the way of life for most people here. They do not have real culture. It wasn't always like this. My parents first immigrated here when North America still had dignity. Then later on the country became rabidly "liberal" thanks to a Prime Minister named Pierre Trudeau and then the country never recovered from this disgusting modern liberal poison. The groups that usually have a connection to their roots here are the non-whites (since our country kisses their ass) and the "ethnic" Europeans (Italians, Portuguese, Greeks, etc.) The masses here are totally brainwashed and yet these liberals in Portugal want this cultureless lifestyle imported in their country to make it less "backward" as they say. It seems like the fear of there being "another Salazar" has scared them into becoming radical modern liberals.

[BillOfLanding]

Yeah I'm well aware of this attitude over there. Socrates talked about wanting a "nordic democracy" in Portugal modelled after Sweden, Norway, etc. It's pretty sickening. This is why a lot of people in Portugal are apathetic towards politics. They have a pro-globalization/neo-liberalism party on the right and a socialist party that wants to be like scandinavia on the left and quite a few quacks on the far left that want to be even more like Sweden/Germany/Belgium/Holland/Soviet Canuckistan,etc. It would ruin the country.


To a certain extent Portugal is largely run by walking contradictions, neurotic Portuguese "nordicists". LOL

An increasing number of Portuguese are apathetic in relation to politics because most of our politicians are career-obsessed opportunists who are completely devoid of idealism and true patriotism. By trying to superimpose some aspects of what they imagine a modern highly industrialized society to be onto the Portuguese reality they have created a hybrid monster: a socialistic welfare state with a considerable immigrant population in a nation with very low GDP growth and a huge trade deficit. The post 1974 welfare state in Portugal has eroded some of the old virtues of the Portuguese such as sobriety and hard work. The sons and grandsons of farmers and fishermen all want to be idle "doutores" who, despite their "social prestige" contribute little or nothing to Portugal´s wealth and long term prosperity. Effeminate consumerism and vanity has replaced the thrift and humility of the past. Under this political model, the Portuguese have become a sort of "nouveau-riche" who doesn´t really know where his wealth comes from. As it is now becoming apparent that the free feast is coming to an end, more Portuguese are waking up and seeing the long term consequences of such a state of affairs.

[Northern_Paladin]

The Nords vs Med thing is old as time itself. :rofl:

[streetfightergirl]

Portuguese are mostly white like 90% of them but some are muds like Nelly Furtado....

[BillOfLanding]

Portuguese are mostly white like 90% of them but some are muds like Nelly Furtado....

Someone who actively tries to look as mud-like as possible, makes a career singing mud music, and makes videos where she is dancing with a bunch of muds is well, a mud. Had she stayed Portuguese she wouldn´t be making millions of $. And no, from what I have heard of her music it is in no way inspired by fado, Portuguese folk music or anything even remotely Portuguese.

[streetfightergirl]

Someone who actively tries to look as mud-like as possible, makes a career singing mud music, and makes videos where she is dancing with a bunch of muds is well, a mud. Had she stayed Portuguese she wouldn´t be making millions of $. And no, from what I have heard of her music it is in no way inspired by fado, Portuguese folk music or anything even remotely Portuguese.
she tries to look and sound east indian. Hell she looks kinda gypsyish to me. She aint white and I agree with you 100 percent.

[BillOfLanding]

she tries to look and sound east indian. Hell she looks kinda gypsyish to me. She aint white and I agree with you 100 percent.

I have seen a photo of her parents, interestingly in the Municipal Bulletin of Vila Franca do Campo (São Miguel) where their hometown of Ponta Garça is located and both of them look completely caucasian.

[OVERWATCH]

Let's keep on the subject here. Remember that this is supposed to be a scientific-centered forum 'genetics', which has nothing to do with Nelly Furtado's musical choices, and whether or not she is a 'mud' because of it.

[streetfightergirl]

I have seen a photo of her parents, interestingly in the Municipal Bulletin of Vila Franca do Campo (São Miguel) where their hometown of Ponta Garça is located and both of them look completely caucasian.
Maybe its a throwback trait to a gypsy or she has a gypsy grandparent. Who knows??? lol

[Felix the Cat]

Did you even bother to read to the end of that thread you started about her?

[raven]

To a certain extent Portugal is largely run by walking contradictions, neurotic Portuguese "nordicists". LOL

An increasing number of Portuguese are apathetic in relation to politics because most of our politicians are career-obsessed opportunists who are completely devoid of idealism and true patriotism. By trying to superimpose some aspects of what they imagine a modern highly industrialized society to be onto the Portuguese reality they have created a hybrid monster: a socialistic welfare state with a considerable immigrant population in a nation with very low GDP growth and a huge trade deficit. The post 1974 welfare state in Portugal has eroded some of the old virtues of the Portuguese such as sobriety and hard work. The sons and grandsons of farmers and fishermen all want to be idle "doutores" who, despite their "social prestige" contribute little or nothing to Portugal´s wealth and long term prosperity. Effeminate consumerism and vanity has replaced the thrift and humility of the past. Under this political model, the Portuguese have become a sort of "nouveau-riche" who doesn´t really know where his wealth comes from. As it is now becoming apparent that the free feast is coming to an end, more Portuguese are waking up and seeing the long term consequences of such a state of affairs.
I have noticed this. Ever since the Carnation Revolution the government in Portugal (mostly the Socialists) have been trying to be like the Socialist "Nordic" countries. As a result, many people in Portugal now have become apathetic and feel that they have a sense of "nordic socialist" entitlement. They however are only making things worse with the low GDP growth, trade deficit and deficit in general. Last year Portugal had a 8.8b euro deficit overall and this is mainly due to the very excessive social security costs. This social security usually goes to the "social prestige" public sector workers and the growing number of seniors there now. That social security fund needs to be cut substantially.

The Portuguese Diaspora are in general more affluent than the Portuguese in Portugal and they never had a dime go there way to get to the level of affluence they have in their respective countries. My great grandparents were given nothing at all when they were in the United States and my grandparents and parents were given nothing when they arrived in Canada. All they had was the determination to work hard and give their future generations a better life in spite of the discrimination they first faced when they arrived. My ancestors have done so much for me and this is why I get angry at some of those in the current generation who don't care for their roots and only care about themselves.

I am told that I am racist by pseudo-intellectual liberals because I love my ancestors and want to preserve their history. Apparently its wrong to be proud of my history and want that pride to go on for generations and generations. And this is exactly the mindset that is creeping in Portugal through those liberals who think they "know it all". These liberal politicians, like the current generation of liberals only care about themselves and not their roots and families. These liberals are ungrateful children and they are the reason why patriotism and national pride are considered dirty words there due to their paranoia of there being "another Salazar". In order to reverse this, the people have to start to have pride again. They have to start thinking about their future while keeping the spirit of their ancestor's close to heart to guide them. And they can't think about the future when they are about to introduce legalized child killing (abortion), flood the nation with immigrants and turn Portugal into New Amsterdam.

[Draugen]

Wow.

BTW, what you see in the Portuguese national team is the average Portuguese. No need to go further than that, so make your conclusions.

I suspect I have some admixture from the side of my father. Looking at the pictures from his youth seems to support that suspicion. However, those are traits that I rarely see anywhere else. His parents were proles natural from Lisbon, in contrast to the majority of its current population which migrated in the last decades from the rural areas. So yes, it could point to a certain degree of mixture in some localized areas. My guesses would be on Lisbon, Setúbal and some parts of Alentejo -- among the poorer castes obviously.

I posted my picture somewhere on this forum, where my curly hair is shown. I have not seen that degree of curliness in any Caucasian's hair that I can remember. My jaw is also slightly projected, and my upper lip does not match it when relaxed. Altough this is a complication that no one else in my rather large family possesses, apart from my father. He's the only one in the family to have curly hair, with the possible exception of my grandfather, whom I never saw. In case anyone's wondering, all my family is of clearly above average intelligence. Negroid genes or not, my father did more for this community than anyone I can think of.

I'm posting this for the sake of information and debate, since I have no knowledge of physical anthropology. Perhaps a conclusion can be reached without low level knee-jerking and emotionalism.

[B-Pep]

Wow.

BTW, what you see in the Portuguese national team is the average Portuguese. No need to go further than that, so make your conclusions.

I suspect I have some admixture from the side of my father. Looking at the pictures from his youth seems to support that suspicion. However, those are traits that I rarely see anywhere else. His parents were proles natural from Lisbon, in contrast to the majority of its current population which migrated in the last decades from the rural areas. So yes, it could point to a certain degree of mixture in some localized areas. My guesses would be on Lisbon, Setúbal and some parts of Alentejo -- among the poorer castes obviously.

I posted my picture somewhere on this forum, where my curly hair is shown. I have not seen that degree of curliness in any Caucasian's hair that I can remember. My jaw is also slightly projected, and my upper lip does not match it when relaxed. Altough this is a complication that no one else in my rather large family possesses, apart from my father. He's the only one in the family to have curly hair, with the possible exception of my grandfather, whom I never saw. In case anyone's wondering, all my family is of clearly above average intelligence. Negroid genes or not, my father did more for this community than anyone I can think of.

I'm posting this for the sake of information and debate, since I have no knowledge of physical anthropology. Perhaps a conclusion can be reached without low level knee-jerking and emotionalism.

I think that a Portugease who has a little bit of Arab or even negroid ancestry is still a white Portugease, just as a Scandanavian with some lapp ancestry is still a white Scandanavian. The reason for this is that these people with few exceptions can general look and act like the general populace of their native countries and hence this makes them Aryan (their Aryan spirit). I believe this is how the Spanish caste system worked in Latin America, E.G. 1/8th native indian= white Spanish, 1/16th negro= white , ETC.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

I want no business with negroid mixtures.

[Draugen]

I think that a Portugease who has a little bit of Arab or even negroid ancestry is still a white Portugease, just as a Scandanavian with some lapp ancestry is still a white Scandanavian. The reason for this is that these people with few exceptions can general look and act like the general populace of their native countries and hence this makes them Aryan (their Aryan spirit). I believe this is how the Spanish caste system worked in Latin America, E.G. 1/8th native indian= white Spanish, 1/16th negro= white , ETC.

Biological determinism and racial geekery do not thrill me in the slightest. I know the importance of blood and lineage, and the consequences that inevitably follow(and preceed) its corruption, but to put race in front of culture and spirit is merely the product of an already decadent culture and spirit in themselves. I've known my share of hardcore racialists who see no problem watching Desperate Housewives and WWE at the same time they call for the rebirth of European civilization.

Here's my picture from the other thread. My hair is rarely that curly, but I don't want to hide anything, here. It is something I never saw on any other Caucasian, Portuguese included.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8158/img11le.jpg

[raven]

It's not like your hair is the curliest there is for a caucasoid. Fabrizio Collocini, the Italian-Argentinian footballer, probably has about the same curliness or maybe even more. Curly hair is definately found among Caucasoids. Negroids usually have the nappy variety of hair (which is much more tightly coiled) though there are some with looser hair that had caucasoid admixture.

[BillOfLanding]

I've known my share of hardcore racialists who see no problem watching Desperate Housewives and WWE at the same time they call for the rebirth of European civilization.

A lot of the more hard core racialist propaganda does have a sports entertainment-like quality to it so I am not surprised in the least that many of these guys feel at home watching WWE. Modelling wrestlers after just about every ethnicity and stereotype imaginable, from Tatanka to Nunzio to Kamala the Ugandan Giant, the WWE has yet to invent an “Aryan Skinhead” style wrestler. JBL, who is a staunch right-wing Republican, is strongly opposed to illegal immigrants and wetbacks like Rey Misterio.

Here's my picture from the other thread. My hair is rarely that curly, but I don't want to hide anything, here. It is something I never saw on any other Caucasian, Portuguese included.

I´m no expert in race classifications but I would say there something vaguely semitic or Mid-Eastern in your appearance rather than sub-saharan African. Then again, you can easily cover this up by shaving your head and getting a White Power Swastika tattoo on your forehead.

[Dr. Gutberlet]

Your hair reminds me of Marty Friedman's from Megadeth.http://www.martyfriedman.com/downloadable/MartyFriedman0293.jpg

[BillOfLanding]

If the Portuguese communities in North America can produce a Nelly Furtado they can also produce someone like this, LOL...

http://www.nationalvanguard.org/images/teaser/medeiros_mike.jpg

http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10377

[raven]

If the Portuguese communities in North America can produce a Nelly Furtado they can also produce someone like this, LOL...

http://www.nationalvanguard.org/images/teaser/medeiros_mike.jpg

http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10377
I believe Nelly Furtado's parents lived quite close to where my family did. I think her family left after the Carnation Revolution though. My family left almost a decade before because it was pretty pointless to fight to keep the negro colonies. Salazar should have let them go immediately when he took power. Good riddance. Unfortunately it seems that Nelly Furtado has abandoned the conservative nature of her parents and adopted the ridiculous negro hip-hop culture that is prevalent in North America. That is not to say that North American culture is bad. In fact the United States and Canada were nations that one could look up to back in the day before the wave of liberalism. I speak English and have a North American accent. I like Hockey, Canadian winters, maple syrup, etc. but this "gangsta" negro culture is a vice that turns many North Americans into wiggers. She features "ghetto" negro rappers in her music and I believe she married an Indian man too? I feel very sorry for her parents. She should never associate herself with her parents' roots.

Btw did you notice that in the National Vanguard article they did not mention his heritage at least once? This is what I mean about how White Nationalism is a homogenous "whiteness" movement. All that matters to them is that this man is white-skinned. Culture and roots take a very far back seat. Medeiros can still redeem himself if he disassociates himself with those people at least but I'd definately say that working on behalf of the National Vanguard is disgraceful to Portuguese people in North America. How can he associate himself with a movement in which at least 1/3 of the people involved in it think that his kind are sub-human mulattos?

[BillOfLanding]

Mike Medeiros is a North American expat? Actually this doesn't surprise me that much. PNR seems to be influenced by North American Neo-nazi/skinhead/far-right culture. They seem to have a lot of support from skinheads and people who think that Hitler and the Nazis were the coolest thing since sliced bread. As a Portuguese person living in North America, it's pretty sad that Mike Medeiros represents us like that. Being a patriot is not about thinking that a former leader of another country should be worshipped (Hitler). I would very much prefer a more patriot-centered platform.

Well, I don´t know Mr. Medeiros. He appears to be a Portuguese-American from southern Massachusetts or Rhode Island with a very common Azorean surname, Medeiros. I would speculate that he is 2nd or 3rd generation. From the way he speaks and acts I would say that he is very "American", as are many Portuguese descendants in New England. The somewhat insular Azorean colony in this part of the US is sometimes seen as a barrier to integration into mainstream American society by American born children of Portuguese immigrants.

I think Medeiros and Furtado are representative of two extremes of Azorean-American rejection of their roots. One becomes a pseudo-mud while the other becomes a neo-nazi.

[raven]

Well, I don´t know Mr. Medeiros. He appears to be a Portuguese-American from southern Massachusetts or Rhode Island with a very common Azorean surname, Medeiros. I would speculate that he is 2nd or 3rd generation. From the way he speaks and acts I would say that he is very "American", as are many Portuguese descendants in New England. The somewhat insular Azorean colony in this part of the US is sometimes seen as a barrier to integration into mainstream American society by American born children of Portuguese immigrants.
I think I may have had Michael Medeiros confused with someone else in PNR or FN who has the same surname I believe. My mistake. It seems that he is simply a Portuguese-American who works on behalf of the National Vanguard.


I think Medeiros and Furtado are representative of two extremes of Azorean-American rejection of their roots. One becomes a pseudo-mud while the other becomes a neo-nazi.
Definately. It is a night and day contrast. Furtado is brainwashed with all the multicultural propaganda in Canada while Medeiros is brainwashed with all the Neo-Nazism that is apparent in the White Nationalism movement in America.

[BillOfLanding]

I think I may have had Michael Medeiros confused with someone else in PNR or FN who has the same surname I believe. My mistake. It seems that he is simply a Portuguese-American who works on behalf of the National Vanguard.

As far as I know he doesn´t hold Portuguese citizenship nor does his organization, National Vanguard, have any direct ties with the extreme right in Portugal. The FN may have a handful of sympathizers who reside in the US but these are unintegrated recent immigrants from Portugal. These groups are mostly an urban phenomenon in Portugal. For example, in the Azores these 2 groups have only a handful of followers.

Medeiros, who is definitely a Portuguese-American, apparently doesn´t mention his Portuguese heritage too often, if at all. Were he of German or Swedish descent he would probably talk about his ethnicity with pride to his neo-nazi buddies. Anyway, at least he is more or less accepted by them and not hounded out as a “spic” or a “portagee greenhorn”… LOL


Definately. It is a night and day contrast. Furtado is brainwashed with all the multicultural propaganda in Canada while Medeiros is brainwashed with all the Neo-Nazism that is apparent in the White Nationalism movement in America.

They are interesting in that they are of very similar backgrounds but have adopted to modern North American life by acquiring very different personas. Most likely they are both children of working-class Portuguese who in one way or another turned their backs on their ethnic identity in order to “fit in” with their non-Portuguese surroundings.

[raven]

As far as I know he doesn´t hold Portuguese citizenship nor does his organization, National Vanguard, have any direct ties with the extreme right in Portugal. The FN may have a handful of sympathizers who reside in the US but these are unintegrated recent immigrants from Portugal. These groups are mostly an urban phenomenon in Portugal. For example, in the Azores these 2 groups have only a handful of followers.
That movement tends to be very minimal in Azores indeed. It definately is an urban phenonmenon since the blacks and other foreigners live in urban areas almost exclusively. Most of the country's blacks live in the region of Lisbon and so it is no surprise the far-right would have a following there. Azores is one of the more homogenous regions in Portugal and is the most conservative but there is barely any PNR / FN following there. Madeira is also quite conservative. Their president Joao Jardim mentioned that he does not want any Indian, Chinese, etc. immigrants in Madeira and he was put underfire by the media for that statement.


Medeiros, who is definitely a Portuguese-American, apparently doesn´t mention his Portuguese heritage too often, if at all. Were he of German or Swedish descent he would probably talk about his ethnicity with pride to his neo-nazi buddies. Anyway, at least he is more or less accepted by them and not hounded out as a “spic” or a “portagee greenhorn”… LOL
Definately. However I think the reason why he is accepted is because most of the people in the movement would likely be unaware that his surname is Portuguese. I am sure that if they found out, he would all of a sudden become a "mud".


Most likely they are both children of working-class Portuguese who in one way or another turned their backs on their ethnic identity in order to “fit in” with their non-Portuguese surroundings.
Portuguese first generation immigrant parents in virtually all cases maintain a strong connection to their ethnic identity in my experience. It is usually the subsequent generations that are more likely to turn their backs on their ethnic identity. Nelly Furtado I believe mentioned that as a child her parents made her sing Portuguese folk songs at gatherings when she actually wanted to sing stuff from Mariah Carey and whatever else. She claims that her style is influenced by Fado artists such as Amalia Rodrigues but there isn't an ounce of it in her music. It's all generic hip-hop washed mainstream pop. Had she stuck with Portuguese oriented music she would have never became a mainstream hit worldwide, not even in Canada. As for Mike Medeiros, I don't know anything about his family.

[BillOfLanding]

That movement tends to be very minimal in Azores indeed. It definately is an urban phenonmenon since the blacks and other foreigners live in urban areas almost exclusively. Most of the country's blacks live in the region of Lisbon and so it is no surprise the far-right would have a following there. Azores is one of the more homogenous regions in Portugal and is the most conservative but there is barely any PNR / FN following there. Madeira is also quite conservative. Their president Joao Jardim mentioned that he does not want any Indian, Chinese, etc. immigrants in Madeira and he was put underfire by the media for that statement.

The PNR/FN movement is a virtual non-entity in rural Portugal, which includes the Azores. Most of these regions have a declining population as most of the younger people move away, looking for work and “excitement” along Portugal´s densely populated coastal regions. Emigration abroad from these depressed regions has also increased greatly in recent years due to the economic crisis. Madeira however has a rather vibrant economy due to the recession-proof tourist trade.

Definately. However I think the reason why he is accepted is because most of the people in the movement would likely be unaware that his surname is Portuguese. I am sure that if they found out, he would all of a sudden become a "mud".

He is probably accepted because he doesn´t make much of his ethnic heritage. Most people in the US, especially the racially-aware folks would consider Medeiros to be somewhat “spic” sounding. There was a Frank Silva, a Portuguese-American name if there ever was one, from the West Coast who was a member of the neo-nazi “Order” group which hijacked a truck back in the 1980s. There was even a high-profile Canadian neo-nazi back in the late 80s-mid 90s named George Burdi who was of Armenian descent. Using an Anglo-sounding pseudonym “George Eric Hawthorne” he became a spokesman for the neo-nazi movement in North America.


Portuguese first generation immigrant parents in virtually all cases maintain a strong connection to their ethnic identity in my experience. It is usually the subsequent generations that are more likely to turn their backs on their ethnic identity. Nelly Furtado I believe mentioned that as a child her parents made her sing Portuguese folk songs at gatherings when she actually wanted to sing stuff from Mariah Carey and whatever else. She claims that her style is influenced by Fado artists such as Amalia Rodrigues but there isn't an ounce of it in her music. It's all generic hip-hop washed mainstream pop. Had she stuck with Portuguese oriented music she would have never became a mainstream hit worldwide, not even in Canada. As for Mike Medeiros, I don't know anything about his family.

Nelly Furtado is an internationally recognized star raking in millions of dollars while Mike Medeiros is barely known outside of the WN movement and the far-left and Jewish groups who monitor the WN movement. From what I have heard of Furtado´s music there is no discernable Portuguese influence. If she did sing Portuguese music it would either be of the rather tacky Jorge Ferreira style or snobbish pseudo-intellectual Mariza style. To what point she isn´t just going for the $$$ we don´t really know. She does do the Portuguese communities of North America a disservice by associating them with the silly “gangsta hip-hop” culture.

[Nemo]

Welsh, possibly. But the Scots and Irish have a significant amount of Scandinavian ancestry which I do not believe is present in Southern Europeans

That's a myth, like most of the claims of nordicisim, which is a fabricated history of Northern Europeans.

Irish are nor Celts, say experts!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2765-1247765,00.html

[John Smith]

Yes, Ireland has a rather old population.

However, I question the statement that Irish aren't celts. I see it as a small elite population dominating the majority, and the majority adopted their culture. So technically, they're descendents of Celts culturally, or at least partially.

[Felix the Cat]

That's a myth, like most of the claims of nordicisim, which is a fabricated history of Northern Europeans.
The Vikings colonised southern Europe? This is news to me

Irish are nor Celts, say experts!
What does this have to do with anything?

[Ambrosio Spinola]

The Vikings colonised southern Europe? This is news to me


They did carve out a nice Kingdom in Sicilly and Naples. Normans were everywhere.

[Felix the Cat]

Good point (http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/maxpages/classes/His311/Lecture%20One/NormanExpansion.JPG)

[Nemo]

The Vikings colonised southern Europe? This is news

In the 9th century after 200 yrs of Arab occupation in Sicily, the Normans invaded Sicily and killed most of the moors and the rest fled the country.

The Normans ruled Sicily for over 130 yrs, and then were replaced by German tribes, that is history.

The reason it is news to you, it's because you read pseudo history by Arthur Kemp.

"The Arab conquest of Sicily initiated in 827 [AD] was preceded by numerous Saracen invasions of the island while it was still under Byzantine rule. By 902 the island belonged totally to the Arabs [Moors]. ... Norse invaders in the 11th century forced the Arabs to flee. Sicilian Arabs relocated to other countries and the island then came under the control of the Normans. The Norman era closed after 130 years. They had appeared on the Sicilian scene to reconquer the island for Christiandom and the west."

[Nemo]

Yes, Ireland has a rather old population.

However, I question the statement that Irish aren't celts. I see it as a small elite population dominating the majority, and the majority adopted their culture. So technically, they're descendents of Celts culturally, or at least partially.

This was done in Ireland, by Irish anthropologists, they are not talking about culture but about genetics, and the results show that the Irish do not carry any Celtic dna, so they are not genetically descendents of the Celts like they and the Nordicists claim.

[BillOfLanding]

This was done in Ireland, by Irish anthropologists, they are not talking about culture but about genetics, and the results show that the Irish do not carry any Celtic dna, so they are not genetically descendents of the Celts like they and the Nordicists claim.

All of Europe´s western fringe was culturally Celtic at one time, including western Iberia. Now, a small invading elite can impose its language and culture over a native mass of different stock as occured for example with the Romans in the Iberian peninsula.

[Jonathan]

But the Scots and Irish have a significant amount of Scandinavian ancestry which I do not believe is present in Southern Europeans
Do we? I can't speak for the Scots, but where are you getting this "Scandinavian ancestry" in the Irish from?

[Jonathan]

This was done in Ireland, by Irish anthropologists, they are not talking about culture but about genetics, and the results show that the Irish do not carry any Celtic dna, so they are not genetically descendents of the Celts like they and the Nordicists claim.
Who now? Which "they"?

[Ixtab]

Interesting:

The Viking age witnessed the expansion of Scandinavian invaders across much of northwestern Europe. While Scandinavian settlements had an enduring cultural impact on North Atlantic populations, the nature and extent of their genetic legacy in places such as Shetland and Orkney is not clear. In order to explore this question further, we have made an extensive survey of both Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) variation in the North Atlantic region. Our findings indicate an overall Scandinavian ancestry of 44% for Shetland and 30% for Orkney, with approximately equal contributions from Scandinavian male and female subjects in both cases. This contrasts with the situation for the Western Isles, where the overall Scandinavian ancestry is less (15%) and where there is a disproportionately high contribution from Scandinavian males. Our results suggest that while areas close to Scandinavia, such as Orkney and Shetland, may have been settled primarily by Scandinavian family groups, lone Scandinavian males, who later established families with female subjects from the British Isles, may have been prominent in areas more distant from their homeland.

http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v95/n2/full/6800661a.html

[Felix the Cat]

Do we? I can't speak for the Scots, but where are you getting this "Scandinavian ancestry" in the Irish from?
You argue that the Viking settlement of Ireland in the Dark Ages left no significant mark on the Irish population?

[Jonathan]

You argue that the Viking settlement of Ireland in the Dark Ages left no significant mark on the Irish population?
Definitely.

What "settlement of Ireland" are you referring to? There were Viking settlements in Ireland, but certainly nothing near a settlement of Ireland.

Take a look at what happened cowcube, the Vikings made several raid (usually on Monasteries), and set up small settlements, mainly on the coast, some of which became towns (Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford, and Wexford being the main ones).

For the most part the Vikings were confined to these coastal towns. There was very little progress made in advancing on Ireland's interior. It wasn't like in England where they set up the Danelaw, or like the Islands (Man, Hebrides, Shetlands etc) where they took over the whole place. There wasn't much inter-marriage at all. The surnames Doyle, McDowell, Cotter, Harold, O'Halloran, and possibly Archibald are the only Viking lineages (in the male line obviously) which survive in Ireland today (and of those, there are also indigenous Gaelic Irish families by the name of O'Halloran and Gallowglass families of the name McDowell so that reduces the numbers even further).

So yes, I would definitely argue that "the Viking settlement of Ireland in the Dark Ages left no significant mark on the Irish population" and I don't know of any academics who wouldn't.

Genetic studies on the Y-Chromosomes also supports the assertion that "the Viking settlement of Ireland in the Dark Ages left no significant mark on the Irish population" in so far as the vast majority of Irishmen have that AMH Haplotype.

Now unless you're goign to suggest that the Vikings who settled all happened to have the AMH Hapoltype too, and that they all adopted Irish surnames, then I don't know what your argument would be.

[Nemo]

Who now? Which "they"?

'They" refers to the Irish who believe they are of Celtic heritage.

Read the article again!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2765-1247765,00.html



The Sunday Times - Ireland

The Sunday Times September 05, 2004

The Irish are not Celts, say experts
Jan Battles
"THE long-held belief that Ireland’s population is descended from the Celts has been disproved by geneticists, who have concluded that they never invaded Ireland.

The research at Trinity College Dublin (TCD) into the origins of Ireland’s population found no substantial evidence of the Celts in Irish DNA, and concludes they never settled here en masses".

[Liz]

That's a myth, like most of the claims of nordicisim, which is a fabricated history of Northern Europeans.

Irish are nor Celts, say experts!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2765-1247765,00.html
Nemo, you're a broken record posting the same link in every Irish thread you can find. Why don't you find a more productive hobby. :rolleyes:

[Nemo]

Nemo, you're a broken record posting the same link in every Irish thread you can find. Why don't you find a more productive hobby. :rolleyes:

Just want to keep the record straight, and let people know who they really are.:)

[Liz]

No, you have an axe to grind against people of Northern European heritage and you're trying to stir shit as usual. :deadhorse:

[Nemo]

No, you have an axe to grind against people of Northern European heritage and you're trying to stir shit as usual. :deadhorse:

Their always beating a dead horse on these web sites, how many times have you heard the same shit about Southern Euros.

Why am I stirring up shit? I am not making these accusations, if you read the Article, you will see that these results about the Irish were done in Ireland by
The Irish themselves by their own anthropologists.
Their is data about all nationalities that have been posted on these web sites, and they rub people the wrong way.
What ever I put up I put the source from where it came, I am not just making false accusations, this reminds me of that old saying " if you don't like the message, kill the messenger" and that is what people on these web sites do, if you don't believe the results of what the Article says, then you should right to Dublin college and speak your mind.

[Jonathan]

'They" refers to the Irish who believe they are of Celtic heritage.
I know that. What I'm asking you is "Which Irish are they?" You posted that link as if you were trying to prove something. But the fact of the matter is I posted similar material 3-4 years ago, every Irish member on this board has seen it, and most well read Irish people know of it too. So which Irish were you talking about, specifically?

P.S. You should have used the phrase "of Celtic descent" rather than "heritage". The Irish aren't of Celtci descent, but certainly of Celtic heritage (among other heritages - if that's the plural!).

[Nemo]

I know that. What I'm asking you is "Which Irish are they?" You posted that link as if you were trying to prove something. But the fact of the matter is I posted similar material 3-4 years ago, every Irish member on this board has seen it, and most well read Irish people know of it too. So which Irish were you talking about, specifically?.

I am referring to celtic descent,most Irish say they are genetically of Celtic descent, the Article where these tests were done as you can see was by the Irish themselves, and they say that the Irish are not genetically Celtic.

Most Irish still claim they are Celts genetically, if you read the posts on other web sites that is still what they classify themselves, if you go to Stormfront and read the Irish forum there you will see what I mean.

I myself am not trying to prove anything, the Anthropologists at Dublin college are proving something, and that is that the Irish are not celts, as the article implies.

I did not post this as some attack on the Irish people, but as scientific data which like all data about European people should be known, and the fact that it was conducted in Ireland, I considered it to be a credible report.

[Jonathan]

most Irish say they are genetically of Celtic descent
Very few well read Irish people make this claim. Your own post goes to lengths to prove this :p

the Article where these tests were done as you can see was by the Irish themselves
Thanks for backing up my argument :D

Most Irish still claim they are Celts genetically
So you say...but then the only evidence you can come up with is Irish posters on Stormfront :rofl:

if you read the posts on other web sites that is still what they classify themselves, if you go to Stormfront and read the Irish forum there you will see what I mean.
But you can't be suggesting that Stormfront's Irish members are representative of Irish people in general. That'd be crazy.

all data about European people should be known
I agree :)

[BillOfLanding]

This thread has gotten way off topic.

[Nemo]

This thread has gotten way off topic.

Ok! Billoflanding! let me see if I could dig up some dirt about the Portuguese people:D

[Nemo]

Shane! I don't know if you live in America or Ireland, but the Irish/Americans are very heavy about the fact that they are descendents of the Celts.

Maybe in Ireland the Irish there do not take it that serious.

But like I said, I thought it was an interesting article, so I posted it.