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View Full Version : Founding principle called into question


Anarch
11-09-2005, 10:30 AM
Comment: No shit, republicanism is good for homogenous populations. France is no longer a homogenous population. Now the question is, what are the alternatives... ;)

Founding principle called into question

Jon Henley in Paris
Tuesday November 8, 2005
http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,,1636671,00.html


The government cannot admit it, but more and more voices in France are being raised to say that the country's worst urban unrest since the student uprising of 1968 reflects the failure of a whole model.

"The crisis is total," one leading sociologist, Michel Wievorka, said yesterday. "This is a structural problem that neither the right nor the left have dealt with for 25 years. France cannot cope with the shortcomings of its republican model. The whole system needs to be rethought."


The modèle républicain d'intégration is based on perhaps the most sacred article of all France's grand republican creed: that everyone is equal and indistinguishable in the eyes of the state. No matter where they come from, all French citizens are identical in their Frenchness.


It is a fine principle born of the ideals of the 1789 revolution. But it has practical drawbacks. For example, statistics based on ethnicity or religion are illegal in France; no one knows how many residents are of Arab or African origin, how they perform at school compared with white pupils, or what percentage are jobless or in prison. If analysing a problem is halfway to solving it, it is not a good start.

Under the model of integration, the idea that ethnic, linguistic and religious groups might enjoy rights and recognition due to their particular minority status is unthinkable. The model is defended on both political wings. When the interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, suggested last year that affirmative action was needed in education and jobs, he was slapped down by both President Jacques Chirac and leftwing leaders for propagating "anti-republican" and "un-French" ideas.

Yet experts and youth workers recognise the failings. "Our approach to integration, based on the concept that everyone is equal, is part of the problem," said one analyst, Christophe Bertossian. "The idea that we are equal is fiction. Ethnic minorities are being told they do not exist."

The integrationist approach worked for earlier waves of European immigrants from Poland, Spain, Italy and Portugal. But they were white and Catholic, and arrived when France needed labour. It has not worked for postwar immigrants from north and black Africa; some 7 million (an unofficial estimate) now live in France, many on the kind of rundown estates that are going up in flames. Some 750 estates are classified as "difficult". They are where the model has broken down, where the French republic, to most intents and purposes, ceases to exist.
"The people who live there live next door to France," said student Yasser Amri, a third-generation immigrant and one of the very few to have escaped his estate, west of Paris. "The republic deals with citizens, not with individuals. But we're not citizens. We don't know what we are. Not Arab or west African, but not French either. We're unrecognised and unremembered. No wonder people rebel."

Jimbo Gomez
11-09-2005, 10:57 AM
Oh yes, affirmative action will solve all this crap. Good thinking on behalf of the author.

Anarch
11-09-2005, 11:05 AM
Actually I don't think that was a thought of the author's making, rather one of Nicholas Sarkozy's wierd ideas. I though it was rather value-neutral. Most of the points were valid. The concept of equality before the law (more to the point - a republic without built in specifications as to who can be part of it) isn't working. There are no solid government statistics on how many ethnic/racial foreigners there are in France, and without this, I don't think we have a solid idea on how extent this problem is. I disagree that the problem is ethnic minorities are being told they don't exist - rather, French (or Gauls/Franks) aren't being told how many of whoever live in France.

I suppose the French can count the bodies when the dust settles.

Felix the Cat
11-09-2005, 11:29 AM
Muslims are currently causing trouble for complex and boring religious/historical reasons, that have absolutely nothing to do with how they're treated...

Fade the Butcher
11-09-2005, 05:49 PM
Some people look for more in life than bread and circuses. The French welfare state already provides for their basic needs. They want higher order goods now.

Jimbo Gomez
11-09-2005, 06:43 PM
Actually I don't think that was a thought of the author's making, rather one of Nicholas Sarkozy's wierd ideas. I though it was rather value-neutral. Most of the points were valid. The concept of equality before the law (more to the point - a republic without built in specifications as to who can be part of it) isn't working. There are no solid government statistics on how many ethnic/racial foreigners there are in France, and without this, I don't think we have a solid idea on how extent this problem is. I disagree that the problem is ethnic minorities are being told they don't exist - rather, French (or Gauls/Franks) aren't being told how many of whoever live in France.

I suppose the French can count the bodies when the dust settles.

I think that is what he's trying to say.

Vindex
11-09-2005, 07:20 PM
They should be honest and just say if your not White/French your not French, which means hit the road woggie toad.

Jimbo Gomez
11-09-2005, 07:30 PM
Criminal laws against that alas, they'll just make sure everyone knows what they mean without them saying it literally.