View Full Version : Georgy Malenkov
Berianidze
11-14-2005, 06:30 PM
This is directed towards Ix and Mazdak specifically:
I was reading something that criticized him (Malenkov) for being a reformist upon his ascension to Prime Minister and head of the CPSU. In fact Nikita Khrushchev cited him as being a 'revisionist' (ironic to say the least) and stated he put a priority on the increased production of consumer goods.
However, he had been loyal to Stalin for all those previous years including acting as his personal secretary, deputy prime minister, and full member of Stalin's Politburo since 1946. He also aligned himself with Bulganin, Kaganovich, and Molotov against Khrushchev. Were the allegations of revisionism true; or just a political ploy used by Khrushchev to usurp power?
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSmalenkov.JPG
Billy Score
11-14-2005, 08:27 PM
Its tough to take a stance on the people involved in the power struggle after stalin because of the complexity of the situation. However he took part in the attempt to oust Khrushchev and for that i see him in a somewhat favorable light. I have heard that although stalin died before these could be implemented, the next "slew" of five year plans revolved around consumer goods. So his emphasis on this only seems to fall in line with Stalin's. However i can't say i know a great deal about Malenkov or any of the people involved in the power struggles at this time aside from Molotov, Kaganovich, Beria, and Khrushchev himself.
Berianidze
11-14-2005, 08:59 PM
Its tough to take a stance on the people involved in the power struggle after stalin because of the complexity of the situation. However he took part in the attempt to oust Khrushchev and for that i see him in a somewhat favorable light. I have heard that although stalin died before these could be implemented, the next "slew" of five year plans revolved around consumer goods. So his emphasis on this only seems to fall in line with Stalin's. However i can't say i know a great deal about Malenkov or any of the people involved in the power struggles at this time aside from Molotov, Kaganovich, Beria, and Khrushchev himself.
Thank you, friend!
I was reading something that criticized him (Malenkov) for being a reformist upon his ascension to Prime Minister and head of the CPSU. In fact Nikita Khrushchev cited him as being a 'revisionist' (ironic to say the least) and stated he put a priority on the increased production of consumer goods.
However, he had been loyal to Stalin for all those previous years including acting as his personal secretary, deputy prime minister, and full member of Stalin's Politburo since 1946. He also aligned himself with Bulganin, Kaganovich, and Molotov against Khrushchev. Were the allegations of revisionism true; or just a political ploy used by Khrushchev to usurp power?
Well, everyone wanted to push some reforms through in the 50s. Beria was intending to give more autonomy to nationalities, Malenkov was going to change economic production to focus on more consumer items, and Khrushchev was trying to force through his disastrous agricultural reforms. Accusing Malenkov of revisionism was just a personal attack on Khrushchev's part.
Malenkov, while not necessarily a revisionist, was definitely complicit while Khrushchev arrested Beria and put him on trial for treason, and thus an oppertunist. Malenkov and Beria had been working closely with each other for quite some time, and had helped curb the influence of Zhdanov and his cronies in the 40s, so his abandoning of Beria in 1953 when he had considerable political weight behind him (no pun intended) was a complete stab in the back. After Beria and his close comrades were arrested and executed by Khrushchev, Malenkov was soon stripped of any titles he had and ushered out of politics altogether.
"A first deputy chairman of the Council of Ministers, Beria had responsibilities that extended beyond the police apparatus, and into the economic realm...On 21 March he introduced a proposal to stop several rand-scale construction projects on the grounds that they would have little practical benefit. The construction of around twenty such undertakings, including the Volga-Baltic Canal and a large hydro-electric system along the lower Don River, was haled. Beria also became openly critical of the agricultural policies advocated by Khrushchev, especially the agro-towns which had caused considerable discontent among peasant farmers."*
Its tough to take a stance on the people involved in the power struggle after stalin because of the complexity of the situation. However he took part in the attempt to oust Khrushchev and for that i see him in a somewhat favorable light.
While it is true that Malenkov and Beria stood against Khrushchev at first, Malenkov, after Stalin's death, not only sat idly by as his comrades were arrested, but played a complicit role in the illegal arrest and repudiation of Beria, which took place without any voting by the Presidium.
"...although Malenkov chaired the session, it was he who took the floor to denounce Beria. When Khrushchev stood up and began, Beria looked at him with a startled expression and said: "What's going on, Nikita? What's this you're mumbling about?" Khrushchev started with the old accusation that Beria had spied for Musavat counterintelligence in Baku, and then went on to discuss Beria's recent policies toward the non-Russian republics, accusing him of deliberately stirring up antagonisms to undermine the unity of the Soviet state. He also brought up the amnesty for camp inmates, claiming that Beria was "trying to legalize arbitrary rule" and that "no honest Communist would ever behave the way he does in the Party.
Bulganin then took the floor to agree and after him Molotov. Both "expressed the proper party position on this matter." Mikoian, however, continued to defend Beria. At this point Malenkov, supposed to sum things up, but he lost his nerve and could not speak. When Khrushchev then proposed that beria be released from all his posts, Malenkov went into a state of panic and instead of putting the motion to a vote pressed a secret button to call the generals from the next room.
At approximately 1:00PM Zhukov, Moskalenko, and the four armed officers entered Malenkov's office. Malenkov, still overcome with fear, announced Beria's arrest in a faint voice and Moskalenko, brandishing his pistol, ordered Beria to put his hands up, while Zhukov searched him."**
*Beria, Stalin's First Lieutenant, Amy Knight, pg. 184
**Beria, Stalin's First Lieutenant, Amy Knight, pg. 198
Probably maybe
11-29-2005, 02:34 AM
Beria was pervert and pedophile.
What's your take on this? Is it justified by your regime?
Billy Score
11-29-2005, 02:34 AM
Molotov and Kaganovich did no better, but i cannot see them in an unfavorable light. I'll agree that Malenkov and the others should have put a stop to Khrushchev before it was too late.
Khrushchev provided the soviets with some funny moments and catchphrases, but otherwises did far more harm than good.
Billy Score
11-29-2005, 02:38 AM
Beria was pervert and pedophile.
What's your take on this? Is it justified by your regime?
Its a lie. Beria was certainly morally questionable and had relations with a 17 year old (which is by the way, legal almost everywhere except in the US where she was 1 year under the age of consent). Although i think leaders should LEAD by example (like Dzerzhinsky), someone with Beria's skill for getting the job done (whether he was a careerist or a sincere believer in marxist leninism) is difficult to replace. Exceptions made for the good of the the people are not bad things.
Probably maybe
11-29-2005, 02:43 AM
Its a lie. Beria was certainly morally questionable and had relations with a 17 year old (which is by the way, legal almost everywhere except in the US where she was 1 year under the age of consent). Although i think leaders should LEAD by example (like Dzerzhinsky), someone with Beria's skill for getting the job done (whether he was a careerist or a sincere believer in marxist leninism) is difficult to replace. Exceptions made for the good of the the people are not bad things.
Morally questionable? Lol. He was pervert like many in the CK (ЦК). Of course you will deny it, but truth is already revealed. ;)
Billy Score
11-29-2005, 02:58 AM
Morally questionable? Lol. He was pervert like many in the CK (ЦК). Of course you will deny it, but truth is already revealed. ;)
by whom ? :rofl: sources?
Probably maybe
11-29-2005, 03:09 AM
by whom ? :rofl: sources?
Take any book exposing Soviet regime and you'll find it. Or ask Edvard Radzinsky.
Beria was pervert and pedophile.
I've read several books that were written by soviet dissidents and authors that used soviet dissidents as their sources of information, and I have yet to encounter any claims that Beria was a pedophile...However, I encourage you to cite any claims and sources you have on this matter. Yes, there have been people that say Beria was a womanizer and had several affairs. Yes, if some of these claims are true it means Beria was an asshole. What of it? People that engage in rumors of this sort are no better than Kenneth Starr.
I'd also like to note that Beria's family denied any claims that he was a womanizer. And, if one ignores his family's testimony due to suspicion of bias, then one must also ignore the accusations themselves, as it was his political enemies at home and abroad that made them.
Take any book exposing Soviet regime and you'll find it. Or ask Edvard Radzinsky.
"..any book" is not specific enough. Where does Edvard Radzinsky say Beria was a pedophile?
Berianidze
11-29-2005, 05:16 PM
Take any book exposing Soviet regime and you'll find it. Or ask Edvard Radzinsky.
I've studied Beria extensively, and as Mazdak and Ymir have both said, I've yet to come across ANYTHING that has claimed Beria to be a pedophile or pervert. Yes, I've heard the womanizer claims as well, but like Ymir said, bias comes in both forms so you either can trust nobody on the subject, or expect that his family would have less to gain at lying than political opponents. Beria had his flaws, of course, but slanderous rumors of pedophila and perversion are a bit much don't you think?
Ace Rimmer
11-29-2005, 05:31 PM
Was Beria Jewish? Or had some Jewish ancestry?
It's possible, although I've never read any evidence for it.
Billy Score
11-29-2005, 06:09 PM
Was Beria Jewish? Or had some Jewish ancestry?
I doubt it as he and stalin got along well for both being Georgian. If he had been jewish it would not have been the same.
Berianidze
11-29-2005, 08:41 PM
Was Beria Jewish? Or had some Jewish ancestry?
As Mazdak said I highly doubt it, although I've read some things that discussed his Jewish ancestry, they were far from reputable sources and aimed more at slandering Beria and discrediting him on a personal level.
Probably maybe
11-29-2005, 08:42 PM
Was Beria Jewish? Or had some Jewish ancestry?
I have yet to find any bolshevik who was full-blooded native Russian. :nono:
I wonder why all of them were using Russian pseudonames instead of their real names?
Probably maybe
11-29-2005, 08:44 PM
It's possible, although I've never read any evidence for it.
Of course you never read or believe any evidence that will hurt your beliefs. :rofl: All of you are ridiculous. Ha - ha - ha!!!
Berianidze
11-29-2005, 08:48 PM
Of course you never read or believe any evidence that will hurt your beliefs. :rofl: All of you are ridiculous. Ha - ha - ha!!!
Flame. You seem to despise Bolshevism so much without having any real understanding of it or it's history...
Probably maybe
11-29-2005, 09:04 PM
Flame. You seem to despise Bolshevism so much without having any real understanding of it or it's history...
And you seems to love it so much without accepting clear evidence and well-known facts. Live with that, Beria is pervert and Communism is a failure.
*edited for flames*
Billy Score
11-29-2005, 09:32 PM
Whatever their nationality, if it were not for Stalin or any of the heroic soviet leadership during the war, you'd be speaking german you ungrateful trash. Now this bantering has gone on long enough, its just going to keep going back and forth. The next argument that does not provide a source gets deleted and the thread gets locked. That's a shame but its better then this thread turning into 15 pages of
probably maybe: "BERIA WAS A PERVERT"
socialist folk: "no beria WASN'T A PERVERT"
Probably maybe: "BERIA WAS A PERVERT JEW
Socialist folk:"no beria "wasn't a PERVERT JEW"
PM:"yes he was"
SF:"no he wasn't."
PM:"you just can't face the facts"
SF:"no u."
Probably maybe
11-29-2005, 09:46 PM
Whatever their nationality, if it were not for Stalin or any of the heroic soviet leadership during the war, you'd be speaking german you ungrateful trash.
Of course it is all Stalin and Lenin, the only heroes who should be praised. Victory was not about people who were giving their lives but Stalin who was just making orders. It is you are ungrateful brainwashed trash, but that doesn't matter since you are not Russian and hardly share intrests of Russian people.
Billy Score
11-29-2005, 09:50 PM
Of course it is all Stalin and Lenin, the only heroes who should be praised. Victory was not about people who were giving their lives but Stalin who was just making orders. It is you are ungrateful brainwashed trash, but that doesn't matter since you are not Russian and hardly share intrests of Russian people.
and you do :rofl: ?
i didn't see a link in that post. a source. i only saw baiting.
The sacrifices made by the Russian people were tremendous but the victory was made possible by the leadership and their policies leading up to the war. Collectivization, industrialization, whatever their toll, proved worthwhile and as Stalin predicted, necessary to survive as a nation.
Probably maybe
11-29-2005, 10:26 PM
and you do :rofl: ?
i didn't see a link in that post. a source. i only saw baiting.
The sacrifices made by the Russian people were tremendous but the victory was made possible by the leadership and their policies leading up to the war. Collectivization, industrialization, whatever their toll, proved worthwhile and as Stalin predicted, necessary to survive as a nation.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
What source do you need?
Stalin also made some mistakes before and during the war. He wasn't best leader, that's for sure.
http://www.mk.ru/numbers/440/article14370.htm- read this, there are some intresting facts about Beria and Stachanov.
Uhh, I didn't see any references to pedophilia in that, just alot of stuff about Beria supposedly having an affair with Stakhanov's wife. That's hardly perversion...
Probably maybe
11-30-2005, 12:54 AM
Uhh, I didn't see any references to pedophilia in that, just alot of stuff about Beria supposedly having an affair with Stakhanov's wife. That's hardly perversion...
His wife was in 10th grade of school. Let's count, it means she was around 15 years old. How old was Beria?
Billy Score
11-30-2005, 04:35 AM
His wife was in 10th grade of school. Let's count, it means she was around 15 years old. How old was Beria?
How old was Stakhanov? Stalin's wife was in her teens and he was in his thirties i believe. this was not abnormal. And 10th grade? 16 MAYBE.
When he was in his twenties, Grover Cleveland used to babysit the woman who would be his future wife. I'll agree Beria was wrong, but i am not going to say that because of this fault that beria was entirely worth discrediting.
To magnify this one event in his life to such great proportions while minimizing the rest would be like hating and basing an anti Napoleon stance because he cheated someone in a game of cards.
Ace Rimmer
12-02-2005, 11:36 AM
It's possible, although I've never read any evidence for it.
His mother didn't recognize him and he was speaking bad Georgian. [MSN suspicious smiley]
Dionysus
12-03-2005, 12:04 PM
You can find plenty of these type of things written about Beria in a biography by Anton Antonov-Ovseenko. Also in the posthumous memoirs of Khrushchev.
What does anyone you know of Shatalin?
And how would you explain the Human bones which are found at Beria's former residence?
The question of bias is always necessary to be taken into consideration.
You can find plenty of these type of things written about Beria in a biography by Anton Antonov-Ovseenko. Also in the posthumous memoirs of Khrushchev.
"Khrushchev Remembers?" That is an interesting book. Not only is there going to be significant bias on Khrushchev's part, but the author of the novel, who was not Khrushchev, actually puts a disclaimer at the beginning of the book that says he is not entirely sure if the information he found, which I believe was audio tapes, were actually recorded by Khrushchev himself. Thus, there are dual possibility of both fraud and bias.
Maybe that's not the memoirs you're talking about, but I thought I'd give that info anyways.
And how would you explain the Human bones which are found at Beria's former residence?
What bones..?
Dionysus
12-03-2005, 05:55 PM
Ymir: "Khrushchev Remembers?" That is an interesting book. Not only is there going to be significant bias on Khrushchev's part, but the author of the novel, who was not Khrushchev, actually puts a disclaimer at the beginning of the book that says he is not entirely sure if the information he found, which I believe was audio tapes, were actually recorded by Khrushchev himself. Thus, there are dual possibility of both fraud and bias.
Maybe that's not the memoirs you're talking about, but I thought I'd give that info anyways.Yes, that's the book. I wasn't speaking in favour of it's accuracy, merely that it contains such accusations against Beria.;)
What bones..?http://www.rusnet.nl/news/2003/12/23/report01.shtml
Again I don't affirm accuracy.
Probably maybe
12-15-2005, 09:20 PM
I'll agree Beria was wrong
at least we came to some agreement, tovarisch.
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