Ghosts?

[Arminius]

Halloween Question:
Do you believe in the existence of ghosts which inhabit the Earth? They can be ones which are permanently here or ones that merely sojourn. This can include other types of ghostly spirits, depending on the belief. If you believe in ghosts/spirits, please explain your belief.

[Sandee]

Hinduism perspective:

Apparently, they exist.

Someone who commits suicide, for example, is condemned to roam about as a disembodied spirit. This might be temporary and they get to take birth again or they might have to wait a long while before they can. It depends. If God feels mercy for the said spirit, it gets to reincarnate sooner.

It is believed that human life is precious and taking one's own life is a complete disrespect to God since he procures us with a body.

Nothing is permanent. So, we don't believe ghosts are condemned to remain as they are forever. They might have to remain the way they are for a long time though. This is a lesson for them because they can no longer act upon their desires; they need a body for that.

[Mackie]

definetely yes. I remember witnessing some creepy shit years ago that a good amount of other people saw too.

[Sandee]

definetely yes. I remember witnessing some creepy shit years ago that a good amount of other people saw too.

Elaborate, Mister. I want to know!

[BoloMK30]

If psychic residue counts, then yes. I don't believe that
"spirits" or souls can be trapped here, but I think that extreme
emotions or pain can cause "impressions" in a particular location
or habitation that a sensitive person might feel.
I'm going to step out to "another site" and fetch a story I wrote
for a similar thread; be back in few minutes.

Okay, got it.

My Personal Ghost Story:
In January of 1976, I was on extended leave from the Navy and was
eager to see some of the Western United States. I was driving a 1959
Chevrolet Apache pickup truck with a plywood lid on the bed and a load
of camping equipment. Starting from San Diego CA, I was headed east
through the Anza-Borrego Desert in Southern California and decided to
stop and make camp off the highway. Driving up a narrow wash on the
south side of the highway, I found a spot about a mile away from the
pavement and out of sight of any civilization. The terrain was white
sand and some distant eroded sandstone formations. There were a few
bushes here and there. I was sleeping in the truckbed with the plywood
lid supported on one side to make a lean-to shelter. About 2:00 AM, I
awoke to the sound of many human voices singing not far away; I couldn't
discern any words, just a drone of voices with complex harmonies. I
listened for a while, trying to figure out how dozens of people could be
in a nondescript gully in a barren desert in the middle of the night. Suddenly,
a strong gust of wind blew the plywood lid off the truck! I jumped to my feet,
an axe in one hand and a 1851 Navy Arms cap-and-ball revolver in the other,
(loaded with percussion caps only). I could swear that there was a circle of
people standing around my truck, but my eyes were bleary with sleep and
for a few seconds I couldn't be sure. When my eyes cleared, the bright
moonlight showed only some desert shrubs. However, my hair was standing
up all over my body; in about thirty seconds, I had loaded up my gear and
was spinning sand back towards the highway! I found a public campground
with a crowd of RV's and camper-trucks and spent the rest of the night
there. It's been almost thirty years and it still gives me goosebumps.
I kept thinking that the original hunter-gatherers that lived in this desert
were treated very badly by De Anza and other Spanish explorers, and
something of their spirits might make this area unfriendly to outsiders.

[Kodos]

My mother and sister both saw some weird shit in a B&B one time... so im open... though I don't like to think so.

[Starr]

I know normal people who experienced what they thought were these kind of activities. Both sets of my grandparents lived in what they said were houses that were haunted. And neither were the kind of people who believed in all of that type of things before it happened I hear. So I definitely have to at least vote that I am open to the possibility.

[The Retard]

My cousin used to fool around with the ouija board, until the board told him that he would die soon, then like two months later he died.

[Kodos]

I call bullshit.

[The Retard]

Kodos, the story is completely true, my uncle was afraid of letting us use it again and locked it in the closet.

[Sandee]

I've felt a presence before while walking down the corridor and there is this one personal experience I had that made me think my room was haunted. I posted about it here (http://www.thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=205404&postcount=14).

[Starr]

I bought a Ouija board once and brought it over to my grandparents house and my grandmother said I had to leave it outside because she will not allow it into her house.:rofl:

[Kodos]

Everyone "feels presences" when no one is around, its just natural paranoia an instinct left over from hunter gatherer days.

[The Retard]

Only hyper sensitives can see ghost and talk to them like the kid on Sixth Sense.

[Scryllak]

I'm a general disbeliever. I'm not hostile to the notion, but I'm going to say "No" until something concrete and repeatable comes along--like, say, video and audio footage of a ghost marauding and maiming his way down main street, with a slew of horrified onlookers fleeing from his wrath. I don't believe in a vague and fickle supernatural that restricts itself to nighttime excursions at lonely houses and rural graveyards. Those conditions are ripe for human imagination and exaggeration.

I've never seen anything strange, myself. The only family member of mine who claims to is my grandmother, who says she's seen colonial era people roaming her house on two occasions. She also believes the "Holy Spirit" wakes her up when she asks it to. And she's a total bitch.

So I don't put much stock in her.

[Thomas777]

I look at supernatural/ghost claims the same way that I do extraterrestrial/alien claims: If any proponent of these phenomena is able to produce any evidence (beyond personal "eyewitness" accounts) to substantiate the claim(s), I would be happy to address the merit of what is presented. However, NO evidence is ever presented to substantiate these claims.

That said, although I don't believe there is any truth to the story, the film "Fire in the Sky" is creepy as hell. I watched that film again late at night about a year ago and it still creeps me out...the scene where the hapless abductee is getting dragged to the operating table by the impossibly strong (and monstrous) aliens is chilling.

"The Exorcist" is genuinely horrifying as well...I am not even Catholic and the premise is preposterous but that film still profoundly disturbs me on some very basic level.

[Starr]

I don't really buy it either, but that is supposed to be a true story, isn't it?

The Exorcist" is genuinely horrifying as well...I am not even Catholic and the premise is preposterous but that film still profoundly disturbs me on some very basic level.

One of my favorite movies. I just watched it tonight again. i have always thought the younger priest(he just had a very dark look about him) was almost as creepy as Regan. His mother freaks me out too, especially after she is dead and he sees her sitting on the bed all "white" during the exorcism.

[Kodos]

I look at supernatural/ghost claims the same way that I do extraterrestrial/alien claims: If any proponent of these phenomena is able to produce any evidence (beyond personal "eyewitness" accounts) to substantiate the claim(s), I would be happy to address the merit of what is presented. However, NO evidence is ever presented to substantiate these claims.

The extraterrestial claims never make sense from any angle, aliens pick up hicks and anal probe them.

I've known some semi reasonable people who've made ghost claims... never knew anyone who said they were abducted.

[Thomas777]

I don't really buy it either, but that is supposed to be a true story, isn't it?

It is. Travis Walton was the guy's name...he disappeared for a period of days, was discovered naked and bloody at some service station and then claimed he had been abducted.

When I was a high school kid, I knew this far out guy who believed in that sort of thing...he and I got high and went to see the film in the $2 theater and I thought it was freaky (although absurd). As I said, that film, "Exorcist" and "Henry: portrait of a serial killer" all disturbed my sleep. "Henry" was filmed in my old neighborhood that I grew up in, so that was part of it. The necrophilia scene really sickened me as well.

[LadyApple]

I've never seen anything strange, myself.

Same with me but I am open to the idea that they may exist.

[Kodos]

It is. Travis Walton was the guy's name...he disappeared for a period of days, was discovered naked and bloody at some service station and then claimed he had been abducted.

He figured out it was cooler to claim it had been aliens then the actual Deliverance type shit that actually happened to him.

Good for him making some money out of whatever awful shit that was done.

[Thomas777]

One of my favorite movies. I just watched it tonight again. i have always thought the younger priest(he just had a very dark look about him) was almost as creepy as Regan.

Yes he is intense.

Watch "Exorcist III: Leigon" if you have not seen it, Starr. Its the TRUE sequel to the Exorcist...William Peter Blatty wrote it as such. Its a great film...much different than the Exorcist, but it reveals the ultimate fate of Father Karas.

[Thomas777]

The extraterrestial claims never make sense from any angle, aliens pick up hicks and anal probe them.

I've known some semi reasonable people who've made ghost claims... never knew anyone who said they were abducted.

I definately believe in extraterrestrials, they are just not visiting Earth and claims of abduction are ludicrous. However, it makes perfect sense that life developed on other worlds where circumstances can facilitate its development...I don't think its reasoned to believe that undead creatures, "spirits", or anything of that nature exists on Earth.

[Starr]

Watch "Exorcist III: Leigon" if you have not seen it, Starr. Its the TRUE sequel to the Exorcist...William Peter Blatty wrote it as such. Its a great film...much different than the Exorcist, but it reveals the ultimate fate of Father Karas.

That is on later tonight.

[Thomas777]

That is on later tonight.

Sweet. Brad Dourif is in it as well as George C. Scott. I love that movie, but a lot of people pan it.

Definately check it out.

[The Retard]

One time I was viewing a friends webcam and some strange image poped up, I asked her about it and she said "oh yeah, my house is haunted. " I thought that was very strange because she never brought it up. I think most people see ghost because someone put it in their subconscious. I still think it was my own reflection though, only explanation I can think of. It never happened again after that.

[Kodos]

I definately believe in extraterrestrials, they are just not visiting Earth and claims of abduction are ludicrous.

They might observe earth somehow( unlikely but), they don't abduct hicks to anal probe them.

Or as my colleague Kang says, we have reached the limits of what rectal probing can teach us.

However, it makes perfect sense that life developed on other worlds where circumstances can facilitate its development...

Given the size of the universe yes.

I don't think its reasoned to believe that undead creatures, "spirits", or anything of that nature exists on Earth.

It isn't, and yet the evidence is better for them then it is for alien abductions :D.

[Thomas777]

In the "spirit" of this thread related to Ghosts/Halloween and all that sort of thing:

When I was in Jr. High school, one of my neighbors was a retired State Trooper who had excavated Gacy's basement and arrested him. He was sort of a nasty, old drunk bastard and me and the other kids in the neighborhood would cut through his yard to get to the baseball diamond that was adjacent to his house. He'd yell at us from the porch, and we would flip him the bird, talk trash and all that...he used to look at us with the coldest glare and say "Gacy is going to get you little bastards one day...you think he can't get you, but he can". We would all laugh at him and pretend we weren't scared, but we were...Gacy was like the Boogeyman that adults would talk about back in the 80s...he loomed large in every kid's mind who grew up on the northside or surrounding burbs.

[Thomas777]

It isn't, and yet the evidence is better for them then it is for alien abductions :D.

I don't think the evidence is compelling towards either claim.

I don't like the ghost/supernatural/psychic types.

Years ago, I was hanging out around Logan Square where a bunch of quasi-Bohemians hang out. I end up talking to this older chic who goes off on this tangent about how she is "psychic" and all her New Agey shit. Being about 10 sheets to the wind, I say "do you see yourself waking up at my place tomorrow morning?" I guess that was not in my future, because she quit talking to me after that.

[Kodos]

You should have asked something cooler that would spook her more, like do you see me hacking you apart with an axe in my nitrous oxide mask while dancing to "Be Mine Tonight" :D?

[Thomas777]

You should have asked something cooler that would spook her more, like do you see me hacking you apart with an axe in my nitrous oxide mask while dancing to "Be Mine Tonight" :D?

LOL

The supernatural/new agey types are bad enough, but what is intolerable are the ones who decide that they are keen on "Eastern" religions...this usually involves them signing up for some "Yoga" class at the local health club, reading "The Celestine Prophecy" and attending discussion groups with other dipshit yuppies where they can explore their own banal narcissism and talk about "energy".

[Kodos]

I'm a taoist myself but poser eastern hippie mystics...

Yeah they suck.

[Björn]

Since death it'self is a journey it makes since some souls may still linger. Also there is a general belief in many cultures that an imprint is left behind of an individual like in Egyptian lore.

[Northern_Paladin]

No not at all because if they did exist we'd probably routinely encounter them. And if they existed there would be a reality show on TV would already be made starring ghousts.

[Insidium]

No. I do not believe in anything supernatural. For those who believe they've had a ghost-sighting, please read this article. (http://www.meta-religion.com/Paranormale/Ghost/ghosts_created_by_low_frequency.htm)

[Ahknaton]

No. I do not believe in anything supernatural. For those who believe they've had a ghost-sighting, please read this article. (http://www.meta-religion.com/Paranormale/Ghost/ghosts_created_by_low_frequency.htm)
Interesting. I wonder if it would be possible to deliberately create detailed apparitions using some kind of low-frequency-noise-based hologram technology.

[Berianidze]

My mother and sister both saw some weird shit in a B&B one time... so im open... though I don't like to think so.
My grandmother (who rejected Bolshevism in exchange for her backwards attachment to the Georgian Orthodox faith) believed there was a ghost haunting her house so I slapped her to knock some sense back into her.

I don't believe in ghosts, fairies, extraterrestrial encounters, spirits, god(s), psychics, souls, etc.

[The Retard]

No. I do not believe in anything supernatural. For those who believe they've had a ghost-sighting, please read this article. (http://www.meta-religion.com/Paranormale/Ghost/ghosts_created_by_low_frequency.htm)

Don't use science to hide your fear of ghosts.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

We have been doing recorded history for what? 4000 years? We have like what? 6 Billion people on earth?
I just think, having never witnessed anything of the sorts, that it is VERY highly improbable any such things exist when in all this time and all these people have not been able to proove anything.

And there is still that million bucks out there waiting to get collected by anyone who can proove anything paranormal. Not one has managed to prove anything. I seriously...I doubt ZOG is trying to put a lid on this worldwide and in an age of mobilephone recorders, photos, etc...

[Arminius]

We have been doing recorded history for what? 4000 years? We have like what? 6 Billion people on earth?
I just think, having never witnessed anything of the sorts, that it is VERY highly improbable any such things exist when in all this time and all these people have not been able to proove anything.

It's like God. You can't really prove something incorporeal. It's up to people and faith. There are plenty of written accounts of people seeing ghost-like things, just no tangible evidence. That's why I may believe; or rather I'm open to the possibility.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Skeptical, but I don't rule it out completely.

[Insidium]

It's like God. You can't really prove something incorporeal. It's up to people and faith. There are plenty of written accounts of people seeing ghost-like things, just no tangible evidence. That's why I may believe; or rather I'm open to the possibility.

If there is no tangible evidence, chances are, it's a fairy tale.

When I was a small child, my father dispelled all my fear of ghosts by explaining that they were against the laws of physics. :)

[Arminius]

If there is no tangible evidence, chances are, it's a fairy tale.

When I was a small child, my father dispelled all my fear of ghosts by explaining that they were against the laws of physics. :)

I still keep my mind open to things, which science says may be false. I like to see evidence too, but it doesn't hurt to be flexible on such things.
Your father sounds like a funny guy.

[Geist]

I do not believe in ghosts. No proof, scientifical absurd, and I have never met anyone who has seen one.

I think its mostly just a fear thing, or an instinct that makes people believe in these things.

[Jimbo Gomez]

I do not believe in ghosts. No proof, scientifical absurd, and I have never met anyone who has seen one.

I think its mostly just a fear thing, or an instinct that makes people believe in these things.


How the hell is it that Geist doesn't believe in ghosts?

[Geist]

How the hell is it that Geist doesn't believe in ghosts?

The way I use Geist or came to know of the word is from Hegel, and I did not know it meant ghost for quite some time! I think it is a cool addition to the name though.

[Lily]

I don't believe in Ghosts at all.
That being said, after watching a horror film with ghosts in, I still feel uncomfortable for hours afterwards (especially if is late).

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Why is there no record in human history of Ghostbuster´s style New York spectral manifestation?

[Arminius]

Why is there no record in human history of Ghostbuster´s style New York spectral manifestation?

...because that was a movie. ;)
I don't know. I'd like to have visit by a ghost, as long as the ghost isn't hostile. If he is, then I'd have to whip out my sword and bible.

[Sandee]

I don't want to be visited by ANY ghost. From what I've heard, friendly or not, they can make you feel "sick", "disturbed" and what not. Mackie's personal story was spooky. For all you know that ghost was friendly. :p

[Felix the Cat]

What is the Christian interpretation?

That these are all just satanic apparitions?

[Arthur Daley]

Halloween Question:
Do you believe in the existence of ghosts which inhabit the Earth? They can be ones which are permanently here or ones that merely sojourn. This can include other types of ghostly spirits, depending on the belief. If you believe in ghosts/spirits, please explain your belief.
Yes I think so. I don't neccasirily attribute any religious reasons for their existence. Possibily best understood as an imprint derived from a departed consciousness that appears to be indestructable at least in a conventional sense.

I see it as an indication of existence after death as opposed to 'life' after death which is a statement I find quite unnerving..

[Ambrosio Spinola]

How come we do not find Neanderthal ghosts? Or ghosts from dogs, mice and spiders?

[Starr]

I don't believe in Ghosts at all.
That being said, after watching a horror film with ghosts in, I still feel uncomfortable for hours afterwards (especially if is late).


then you must somewhere in the back of your mind believe in the possibility, otherwise I can't think of any reasons that watching a movie about something you had no believe in whatsoever would leave you feeling unsettled for a while. I remember when I was a kid I used to freak out a bit after watching a movie or documentary about aliens, because I thought to myself maybe they would know I was watching about this and come to get me.:rofl:
I woke up one night in my room(not that long ago) went to the bathroom like normal and was scared to go back into my room, for a short time, because I felt some kind of presence. I had not been watching any weird movies. I don't know if I had a strange dream and didn't remember. This was very odd. It has never happened again, thankfully.

[il ragno]

Belief in the supernatural -or at least, suspension of disbelief in same, which is more accurate - is a lingering (but fast-fading) remnant of the way the world once was before the remorseless advent of rationalism.

I say 'suspension of disbelief' because I don't think, even then, very many people literally believed in spooks on a 24/7/365 basis - but ghost stories permeated nearly all cultures because they satisfy some part of us that needs them -that enjoys the pleasurable frisson of being frightened - as reminders of Shakespeare's maxim, that there is more in heaven and earth than Horatio's philosophy (ie, our self-centered hierarchies of logic) could ever encompass. They remind us of what frightens us - the Other, the dark, the wild, isolation and solitude - but at a safe remove, so that we can confront and surmount those fears (for a little while at least).

But what most of us refer to when we speak of 'ghosts' are the cultural echoes of literature. Ghost stories - whether written, or orally recounted around fireplaces for a millenia - have always been not just popular, but essential, in narrative forms in every language and culture. Even a cursory glance at 19th century literature reveals the wide popularity of the ghostly tale - it's the 20th century that has shunted ghost stories into a ghetto labelled 'horror' that purportedly-serious people need not bother with.

And I must sadly concur that the ghost story is increasingly passe these days, and for all the worst reasons. Who in their right mind could be afraid of mere ghosts in the face of the wholesale and too-often random carnage of the past 100 years? Even undead spirits shudder at the thought of the Carr Brothers climbing through your bedroom window while you sleep - or boarding a bus in a busy shopping district which some jihadist has rigged to explode. We don't fear the consequences of our own evil nowadays so much as we fear being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Death no longer seems to come as rough justice (if it ever did), but as the collateral damage of an unfortunate roll of the dice - bad luck.

Many years ago, someone asked the German director Fritz Lang - who never made a supernatural-themed film, btw - about how his conception of fear had changed over the years, and he replied:

When you talk about violence, this has become in my opinion a definite point in the script, it has a dramatogical reason to be there. After the Second World War, the close structure of family started to crumble. It started naturally already with the first War. There is really very, very little in family life today. I don't think people believe anymore in symbols of their country- for example, I remember the flag burning in the States. I definitely don't think they believe in the devil with the horns and the forked tail, and therefore they do not believe in punishment after they are dead. So, my question was: what do people fear? And the answer is physical pain. Physical pain comes from violence and I think today that is the only thing that people really fear and it has become a definite part of life and naturally also of scripts.

To believe in ghosts - even to temporarily suspend disbelief in them - one must believe in things vaster than oneself, in a hierarchy of gigantic scale in which one's own importance - even one's very existence - is dwarfed into insignificance when measured against the unknowable enormity of the Infinite.
But when all you believe in is yourself and your sense of self-importance, there is no Fate Worse Than Death.

[Lily]

then you must somewhere in the back of your mind believe in the possibility, otherwise I can't think of any reasons that watching a movie about something you had no believe in whatsoever would leave you feeling unsettled for a while. I remember when I was a kid I used to freak out a bit after watching a movie or documentary about aliens, because I thought to myself maybe they would know I was watching about this and come to get me.:rofl:
I woke up one night in my room(not that long ago) went to the bathroom like normal and was scared to go back into my room, for a short time, because I felt some kind of presence. I had not been watching any weird movies. I don't know if I had a strange dream and didn't remember. This was very odd. It has never happened again, thankfully.

You are probably right about the possiblity lurking in the back of my mind, I guess it would be arrogant of me to discount their existance completely, I am just very skeptical. However it is for the same reason that I'll never use an ouija board. In matters such as this, ignorance really is bliss! :D

[VAMPIR]

Of course...
http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/svg/CASPER.png

[Blood Crystal]

I voted yes because I've experienced some weird things. I don't know what ghosts are, maybe not all of them are necessarily spirits of dead people.

[Arminius]

How come we do not find Neanderthal ghosts? Or ghosts from dogs, mice and spiders?

There are explanations for that, depending on belief. I know my Grandfather would tell you it's because all those things don't have souls.
In Hinduism, animals (non-humans) don't have ghosts because they don't incur sin. They reincarnate instantly.

[Arthur Daley]

How come we do not find Neanderthal ghosts? Or ghosts from dogs, mice and spiders?
Is there supposed to be a ghost of bear attached to King Henry VIII?

An obvious demarcation line - if there really are ghosts - is sentience..

[antibuddha]

I think "ghost" or "ghostly" would be better used to describe a phenomological quality, rather than referring to some kind of semi-material entity. For example, pretty much every "person" on the internet I would say is rather ghostly. Same goes for pictures, movies, telephone communication etc. I think when you consider that some cultures viewed picture-taking as soul theft it makes sense, because you when you perceive these things what you're perceiving is, essentially, disembodied characteristics of an entity lacking an immediate physical form. So yes, in a way, I believe in "ghosts", or at least what I think is attempted to be subconsciously, so to speak, communicated by the word.