The crime of being black [Archive]

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 01:27 PM

The Crime of Being Black

OP-ED

by Malik Russell, Blackpressusa.com
October 20th, 2005

The feelings emerging in my mind upon hearing former Education Secretary and former Drug Czar William Bennett’s comments the “abortion” of all African-American children as a means of decreasing crime, ranged from anger to distress to rage.

They often say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I would add to an additional adage that one man’s crime is another’s job. Most pundits and media sources accept hands down that African-Americans and Latinos are disproportionately incarcerated for the simple reason that they commit more crime. This is a myth.

Equally wrong are those who point to issues of socioeconomic status, and racism, and the lack of opportunity as reasons for African-Americans being more “criminal.”

These factors play more of a role in the type of crime committed as opposed to the frequency of crime committed by certain groups.

Most measures of crime are geared towards “street level” crimes, which are crimes that the poor normally have access to commit.

These are the crimes for which the police were created for and the ones that our statisticians track regularly. Unfortunately, this excludes the entire genre of “corporate” or “white-collar” crime, which is not counted by the FBI in crime rates-and is overwhelmingly committed by educated, wealthy White American males.

Unfortunately for those seeking to use African-Americans or the impoverished as a negative reference group for what ails America, some people are actually tracking this invisible or should I say “White” genre of crime.

According to CorporatePolicy.org, a Web site monitoring corporate crime, the Certified Fraud Examiners estimated white-collar crime in 2004 to have cost the US $660 billion annually. To put that in perspective, in 2001, the FBI placed the total loss from burglary, robbery, larceny-theft, and motor vehicle thefts at $17.2 billion. Put another way, that was less than a third of what corporate giant Enron cost investors in the same year.

Rarely do the Enrons of this country suffer the same fate as African- Americans convicted or charged with crimes. In California, one individual ended up getting a life sentence for his “third-strike” by stealing some batteries. How many corporate criminals who caused an estimated 70,000 annual deaths because of product-related accidents according to David O. Friedrichs author of “Trusted Criminals: White Collar Crime in Contemporary Society,” end up not with life imprisonment-but in jail?

White males make up the overwhelming majority of property crime offenders (70.3 percent), Embezzlement (70.0 percent), Counterfeiting (75.8 percent), Bribery (84.9 percent), and Fraud (70.6 percent).

Therefore, based on Bennett’s sick logic, we’d alleviate more crime in America by getting rid of people like him-wealthy educated White males.

This would be a much easier argument for people such as Bennett, if the disparate incarceration of African-Americans were solely attributable to how this society defined crime and its failure to “criminalize” white-collar criminals. Unfortunately, this bias in perception and definition extends into the criminal justice system at every level.

African-American youth with no prior incarceration are 48 times more likely than a similar White youth to be sentenced to juvenile prison for a drug offense. Even when the White youth is sentenced, it’s generally for less time than an African-American youth.

While White youth generally use, sell, and purchase illegal drugs at rates similar to or greater than African-American youth, African- American youth are arrested for drug offenses at about twice the rate of whites.

If Bill Bennett wants to abort something, he should help abort the unfair ways people are perceived, based on their color.

Malik Russell is the communications director of the Justice Policy Institute, a think tank, and policy organization promoting alternatives to incarceration and reducing society’s over reliance on incarceration.

http://www.justicepolicy.org/article.php?id=552

Crowley

11-20-2005, 01:49 PM

The feelings emerging in my mind upon hearing former Education Secretary and former Drug Czar William Bennett’s comments the “abortion” of all African-American children as a means of decreasing crime, ranged from anger to distress to rage.

So what else is new with the black man, isn't he always in a state of anger, distress, and rage in the land where he enjoys the highest standard of living of any black man in the world?

If I was black I would be pissed about Bennett's comments too, but then again blacks are always pissed, so it doesn't mean anything.

Jimbo Gomez

11-20-2005, 02:10 PM

I'm pretty certain more blacks commit carjackings than whites some whitecollarcrime like for example insider trading...

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 02:24 PM

I'm pretty certain more blacks commit carjackings than whites some whitecollarcrime like for example insider trading...

Nonsense, can you please provide some stats? Whites who commit white-collar crime cost people more money than any amount of car-jacking that blacks commit.

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 02:25 PM

So what else is new with the black man, isn't he always in a state of anger, distress, and rage in the land where he enjoys the highest standard of living of any black man in the world?

If I was black I would be pissed about Bennett's comments too, but then again blacks are always pissed, so it doesn't mean anything.

Most of us aren't mad, just the ones who are under-privileged, no different than any other race.

Jimbo Gomez

11-20-2005, 02:34 PM

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 02:47 PM

Ever been the victim of a carjacking? Go ask those victims what they prefer: getting their car taken at gunpoint and a few good blows to the head or selling their shares to some executive who knows about an upcoming merger before the shareholders do...

After that, you can explain to me why negroes commit more crime than equally poor whites.

I've never been carjacked and I drive a nice car and live in the "hood", so I wouldn't know what it is to be carjacked. Its not true that blacks commit more crime than equal poor whites, its just that blacks are more likely to get stiffer sentences. None of this changes the fact that white collar crime by whites costs people more money than blacks who carjack. White collar crime by whites is just as costly as those welfare checks that whites complain blacks get.

Crowley

11-20-2005, 02:50 PM

Most of us aren't mad, just the ones who are under-privileged, no different than any other race.

Black people are unlike other races in fundamental ways. I'll give you an example. When police departments first started hiring black police officers they naturally assigned them to black neighborhoods. One can guess the reasoning: if black cops policed black neighborhoods it would solve one of the perennial complaints of the black community: "racist" white cops patroling black neighborhoods. Guess what happened, the Black Police Officer Associations sued the departments for discrimination, because they didn't want to work in their own neighborhoods. Now compared Chinese, Hispanic, Filipino, Japanese etc etc etc for the entire range races and ethnicities: they all would prefer to work in their own communities. This is just one example of the anomaly that is the black community. You people are difficult to impossible to share a common civilization with. The crime and murder is simply not worth it. Blacks bring nothing to the table but grief, demands, anger, finger pointing, rape, murder, and general communal hell.

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 03:06 PM

Roland

11-20-2005, 03:06 PM

Its not true that blacks commit more crime than equal poor whites, its just that blacks are more likely to get stiffer sentences.

Evidence please. I understand the drastic population differences, but what I am interested in is statistical evidence that whites received preferential treatment.

I think this is a good response to crime based arguments for racism. But...

Rape is an individual act of crime for which the intentionality can be clearly ascribed to the perpetrator. White collar crime, where, say, a CEO makes an illegal decision that directly or indirectly results in the death or deaths of laborers, is generally disassociated from the original cause by many levels. Black males overwhelmingly commit the most man on woman and man on man rape throughout the country. The nature of the crime makes it easy to convict the criminal behind the act. I think that what the article was getting at is that our justice system, at a street level, is concerned with prosecuting crimes that occur on a basic citizen to citizen level outside of obfuscating mechanisms such as "objective" market forces; forces which perhaps hide the effects of white collar crime even from the perpetrator.

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 03:11 PM

Here's one example of why a black policer officer sued:

OAKLAND
Black CHP officer sues white cops for racial profiling
Pleasant Hill police allegedly ignored Highway Patrol ID
Henry K. Lee, Chronicle Staff Writer

Wednesday, November 17, 2004

Printable Version
Email This Article

A black California Highway Patrol officer says two white police officers held him and his partner at gunpoint as they served a warrant at a video store in Pleasant Hill, according to a civil-rights lawsuit filed in federal court Tuesday.

The plainclothes CHP officers repeatedly pointed to their badges and identification during the incident last December, but the police ignored them, ordered them to the ground and removed their guns and other gear, the suit said.

When CHP Officer Sam Morgan, who is African American, asked the police officers to show some professional courtesy, Pleasant Hill police Cpl. Steve Dexheimer replied, "This town is lily white ... you guys are two minorities ... what do you expect us to do?" according to the suit.

"I think this case just shows that racial profiling so infects our society that even a police officer is at risk," Morgan's attorney, Michael Haddad of Oakland, said Tuesday. "Even though they had badges hanging from their necks, an assumption was made that they couldn't possibly be police officers."

Haddad would not allow Morgan, a law-enforcement officer for 22 years with a "very clean record," to be interviewed for this story.

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Oakland, has cast a rare spotlight on the normally tranquil Contra Costa County city of 33,000 and its 44-member police force.

About 80 percent of the city is white, while less than 2 percent is black, city figures show. There are no African Americans on the police force, officials said.

Pleasant Hill City Attorney Debra Margolis declined comment Tuesday, as did Capt. John Moore, serving as acting chief this week in Police Chief David Livingston's absence.

Harry Stern, an attorney whose firm represents the Pleasant Hill Police Officers Association, said the officers had acted appropriately and had been responding as they were trained to what might have been construed as an armed robbery.

At 5:45 p.m. on Dec. 19, 2003, Morgan, 44, and his partner, a 7-year veteran whose name is not identified in the complaint, went to Einstein Entertainment, a video store on Oak Park Boulevard, to serve a tax warrant.

The two CHP officers spoke to the manager of the store, who decided to close at that time, before searching for money and checks, the suit said.

As the officers counted and recorded the money, someone called the store, and an employee said something to the effect of, "They're very professional ... their IDs and badges look real ... they're here counting the money now," the suit said.

The manager and employee left the store. Dexheimer and Officer Drew Sanchez then entered with their guns drawn, aiming at the two CHP officers, the suit said.

Morgan's partner told the Pleasant Hill officers "that they were cops and pointed one of his fingers toward his badge," the suit said

But the officers "continued to ignore the evidence that plaintiff and his partner were police officers" and handcuffed the CHP officers, who were then stripped of their weapons, ammunition magazines, batons, handcuffs, CHP cards and driver's licenses, the suit said.

Morgan was twice searched at gunpoint while lying face down on the floor, the suit said.

Dexheimer and Sanchez did not return calls for comment Tuesday. Stern, the attorney representing the Pleasant Hill police union, said the officers had been "acting in complete accord with common sense and officer safety."

Stern cited the 1998 ambush slaying of Alameda County sheriff's Deputy John Monego, 33, during a botched robbery at a Dublin steak house.

"It potentially could be the exact kind of situation for officers.," Stern said "They go on a call that sounds like an armed robbery in progress."

Ray Boyda, the owner of the Pleasant Hill video store, said Tuesday, "Since this occurred on a Friday night, the store was quite busy, and since the front of the store is all glass windows, I can see how someone could get the impression that the store was being robbed. After all, the officers were removing money that was in plain sight for everyone to see."

Morgan was a state police officer before the agency was unified with the CHP in 1995. He is assigned to the CHP's Oakland office. The CHP is under contract to the state Franchise Tax Board to serve tax warrants, CHP spokesman Tom Marshall said.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/11/17/BAGTO9SEGI81.DTL

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 03:13 PM

Evidence please. I understand the drastic population differences, but what I am interested in is statistical evidence that whites received preferential treatment.

You want proof? Explain this disparity:

New report finds 3 Strikes used disproportionately on minorities

African Americans “struck out” at 13 times the rate of whites, Latino rate of incarceration 82% higher than whites

Washington, DC: New data released today by the Justice Policy Institute revealed that California’s Three Strikes law disproportionately locks up African Americans and Latinos compared to whites. According to this first-of-its-kind analysis of the racial and ethnic makeup of Three Strikes defendants, African Americans are given life sentences under Three Strikes at nearly 13 times the rate of whites and the Latinos are incarcerated under Three Strikes a staggering 82% more than whites.

According to Racial Divide: An Examination of the Impact of California’s Three Strikes Law on African Americans and Latinos, African Americans and Latinos are penalized at every stage of the criminal justice system at rates disproportionate to their share of the general population.

“Three Strikes is systematically funneling African American and Latino defendants into prison for longer and longer sentences, mostly for non-violent crimes,” said Vincent Schiraldi, executive director of Justice Policy Institute (JPI), and co-author of the report. Schiraldi added that the racial disparities for African Americans were particularly harsh by criminological standards “Rarely does one see any law imposed so disproportionately against one racial group,” he added.

The report found that African Americans constitute 6.5% of the state population, but nearly 30% of California’s prison population, and 44.7% of those sentenced to life under Three Strikes. By contrast, whites constitute 47.1% of the population, 29% of the prison population, and 25.4% of third strikers. When comparing arrest and incarceration rates between African Americans and whites, African Americans are arrested at 4.4 times the rate of whites, imprisoned at 7.5 times the rate of whites and ’struck out’ for life at nearly 13 times the rate of whites.

"We’re overcrowding prisons with generations of young men of color at $31,000 each per year, nearly two-thirds of whom are locked up for nonviolent offenses," said John W. Mack, President of the Los Angeles Urban League. "Surely it’s a better investment for society to spend that money on front end prevention and jobs rather than wasting it on the imprisonment of nonviolent offenders who have harmed no one.

The report also analyzed data from counties throughout California regarding the racial impact of Three Strikes. In every county, African Americans made up a higher portion of the ’striker’ population than they did of the felony arrest population. In Los Angeles County, 10% of the population is African American and African Americans are 29% of those arrested, but African Americans represent an astonishing 56% of those serving life sentences under 3 Strikes. In Contra Costa County, African Americans made up 17.7% of felony arrests, but 52% of the strike population - three times their arrest rate.

San Mateo County had the largest African American-to-white disparity of California’s large counties. In that county, the Three Strikes incarceration rate for African Americans was almost 28 times greater than the white Three Strikes incarceration rate.

In Santa Clara County, the findings were similar as African Americans represent only 2.7% of the population, but 27% of those locked up under 3 Strikes. Santa Clara County stood out as the county with the largest over-representation of African Americans and Latinos. Santa Clara also had the highest disparities between Latinos and Whites of any of the large counties in California; Latinos were imprisoned under Three Strikes at nearly three times the rate of whites. Data on racial and ethnic rates of arrest and incarceration under Three Strikes are included in the report for each of California’s counties.

“Three Strikes is turning California’s prisons into a purgatory for minorities,” said report co-author Eric Lotke, director of research at JPI. “What this research shows is that justice in California is far from colorblind.”

http://www.justicepolicy.org/article.php?id=454

Roland

11-20-2005, 03:16 PM

That seems to be evidence enough regarding California. I do not know the criterion for striking out in California, and so I cannot make a judgement otherwise.

Edit:

If minorities fulfill the criterion at a higher rate, then would that incarceration not be justified? I am no proponent of the justice system here, I'm just searching for concrete statistical evidence that clearly points to racial discrimination in conviction.

Keystone

11-20-2005, 03:18 PM

Black people are unlike other races in fundamental ways. I'll give you an example. When police departments first started hiring black police officers they naturally assigned them to black neighborhoods. One can guess the reasoning: if black cops policed black neighborhoods it would solve one of the perennial complaints of the black community: "racist" white cops patroling black neighborhoods. Guess what happened, the Black Police Officer Associations sued the departments for discrimination, because they didn't want to work in their own neighborhoods.
Insane, no? Like Jesse Jackson being relieved to know it's white people walking behind him.
You people are difficult to impossible to share a common civilization with. The crime and murder is simply not worth it. Blacks bring nothing to the table but grief, demands, anger, finger pointing, rape, murder, and general communal hell.
Exactly so, and it's not just the actual crimes being committed---it's the fear and aggravation of having to live with people like that. It's the expense of replacing stolen property, fortifying one's home and buying guns to prevent the wildlings from hurting you in the first place.

OVERWATCH

11-20-2005, 03:27 PM

You want proof? Explain this disparity:

New report finds 3 Strikes used disproportionately on minorities

African Americans “struck out” at 13 times the rate of whites, Latino rate of incarceration 82% higher than whites

http://www.justicepolicy.org/article.php?id=454

No big secret there, blacks are much more likely to be repeat offenders. Simple as that.

They should have learnt their lesson the first and/or second time, then they re-offend again and whine about being locked up under a law which punishes third time offenders.

It's not 'used' disproportionately on blacks, instead blacks 'use' crime disproportionately. If they didn't commit and recommit crime( such a staggering rate), they wouldn't have to worry about 'three strikes'.

Crowley

11-20-2005, 03:41 PM

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 03:43 PM

No big secret there, blacks are much more likely to be repeat offenders. Simple as that.

They should have learnt their lesson the first and/or second time, then they re-offend again and whine about being locked up under a law which punishes third time offenders.

It's not 'used' disproportionately on blacks, instead blacks 'use' crime disproportionately. If they didn't commit and recommit crime( such a staggering rate), they wouldn't have to worry about 'three strikes'.

Are you people hard of reading? The article is stating that blacks strike out 13 times more than whites, meaning of the pool of black and white repeat offenders, blacks are 13 times more likely to strike out than whites, that isn't implying that whites are less repeat offenders, learn how to read. The strike-out law is more likely[13 times more] applied to blacks than whites.

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 03:46 PM

Ha. The whole integration complaint of blacks centers around not being allowed to escape their own horrid communities. Think that White, Chinese or Hispanics would ever complain about community based educational facilities? Integration of savage blacks has resulted in the destruction of homogenous, safe, and humane communities throughout this country. Obviously you are defensive about being a member of the world's most dysfunctional race. I don't blame you for that.

Look, quit trolling and post proof that black police officers sue due to being placed in black neighborhoods, otherwise shut your trap. I'm not going to engage in a circular argument with a person who sticks their head in the sand.

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 03:48 PM

Blacks bring nothing to the table but grief, demands, anger, finger pointing, rape, murder, and general communal hell.

Are so naive and stupid to believe whites are don't do these same things? Of course black people bring more to the table than just that nonsense you posted. Pull your head out of the sand and recognize, like Sam Sneed would say.

OVERWATCH

11-20-2005, 03:54 PM

Are you people hard of reading? The article is stating that blacks strike out 13 times more than whites, meaning of the pool of black and white repeat offenders, blacks are 13 times more likely to strike out than whites, that isn't implying that whites are less repeat offenders, learn how to read. The strike-out law is more likely[13 times more] applied to blacks than whites.

Perhaps you should re-read your own article.

It simply states that:

A) blacks are arrested more often.

B) the assertion that blacks are more likely to get stiffer penalties for the same offences(though it mentions nothing about mitigation or aggravating circumstances)

C) that blacks have a higher rate of incarceration

D) that blacks are more likely to 'strike out'

The article makes no mention of any 'pool of repeat offenders'.

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 03:57 PM

I don't work for you, nigger.

Translation:

I have no proof to back up my claims so now I'm resorting to childish racial insults.

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 03:59 PM

Perhaps you should re-read your own article.

It simply states that:

A) blacks are arrested more often.

B) the assertion that blacks are more likely to get stiffer penalties for the same offences(though it mentions nothing about mitigation or aggravating circumstances)

C) that blacks have a higher rate of incarceration

D) that blacks are more likely to 'strike out'

The article makes no mention of any 'pool of repeat offenders'.

Read this part and try hard to understand:

"The report also analyzed data from counties throughout California regarding the racial impact of Three Strikes. In every county, African Americans made up a higher portion of the ’striker’ population than they did of the felony arrest population. In Los Angeles County, 10% of the population is African American and African Americans are 29% of those arrested, but African Americans represent an astonishing 56% of those serving life sentences under 3 Strikes. In Contra Costa County, African Americans made up 17.7% of felony arrests, but 52% of the strike population - three times their arrest rate."

The felony arrest rate is lower than the conviction rate, explain this.

OVERWATCH

11-20-2005, 04:01 PM

Let's all keep it somewhat civil, folks.

OVERWATCH

11-20-2005, 04:09 PM

Read this part and try hard to understand:

"The report also analyzed data from counties throughout California regarding the racial impact of Three Strikes. In every county, African Americans made up a higher portion of the ’striker’ population than they did of the felony arrest population. In Los Angeles County, 10% of the population is African American and African Americans are 29% of those arrested, but African Americans represent an astonishing 56% of those serving life sentences under 3 Strikes. In Contra Costa County, African Americans made up 17.7% of felony arrests, but 52% of the strike population - three times their arrest rate."

The felony arrest rate is lower than the conviction rate, explain this.

It wouldn't be hard to arrive at those numbers if blacks were meeting the criteria for three strikes more often than others, who don't meet the criteria.

Those statistics don't prove any conspiracy theory that blacks have the three strikes law applied to them while whites who fit the same criteria are allowed to skate through.

Crowley

11-20-2005, 04:10 PM

Translation:

I have no proof to back up my claims so now I'm resorting to childish racial insults.

If it doesn't have a link on the net it isn't true?

This happened before there was an internet. So there is not any link to be found. It wasnt that blacks didn't get assigned to black neighborhoods, it was the black neighborhoods could not be soley policed by blacks. Understand the difference? It was considered "discriminatory" to assign a person to an ethnic neighborhood based on his membership in that neighborhood's ethnic group. This was back when the idea of ethnic neigborhood was a respected part of this country. For the most part those neighborhoods have been demolished by forced negro integration which made the neighborhoods unlivable, except by the savages themselves.

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 06:29 PM

If it doesn't have a link on the net it isn't true?

This happened before there was an internet. So there is not any link to be found. It wasnt that blacks didn't get assigned to black neighborhoods, it was the black neighborhoods could not be soley policed by blacks. Understand the difference? It was considered "discriminatory" to assign a person to an ethnic neighborhood based on his membership in that neighborhood's ethnic group. This was back when the idea of ethnic neigborhood was a respected part of this country. For the most part those neighborhoods have been demolished by forced negro integration which made the neighborhoods unlivable, except by the savages themselves.

Just shut up and post your proof, talk is cheap and I'm still not buying it.

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 06:29 PM

It wouldn't be hard to arrive at those numbers if blacks were meeting the criteria for three strikes more often than others, who don't meet the criteria.

Those statistics don't prove any conspiracy theory that blacks have the three strikes law applied to them while whites who fit the same criteria are allowed to skate through.

Then please explain why the arrest rate is lower than the three strikes conviction rate.

Crowley

11-20-2005, 06:52 PM

Just shut up and post your proof, talk is cheap and I'm still not buying it.

You don't think it is likely that blacks would complain if they were assigned to police black neighborhoods because they are members of the community? They want to be in the nice neighborhoods too. You are aware that "bad neighborhood" is code for black neighborhood. Now what does that say about your community? And not just in AmeriKwa, the world over, black = crime, rape, looting, trash, car alarms disturbing the night, prostitution, and bullet proof plexiglass.

We're sick of it.

zenero

11-20-2005, 07:01 PM

We're sick of it.Goddamn right! It's a bitch living with them creatures.

Just shut up and post your proof, talk is cheap and I'm still not buying it.Fuck the proof! Detroit is the proof, Harlem is the proof, Camden is the proof, Richmond VA is the proof.

New Orleans even transformed in a normal city without the majority of the Africoon's.

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 07:15 PM

You don't think it is likely that blacks would complain if they were assigned to police black neighborhoods because they are members of the community? They want to be in the nice neighborhoods too. You are aware that "bad neighborhood" is code for black neighborhood. Now what does that say about your community? And not just in AmeriKwa, the world over, black = crime, rape, looting, trash, car alarms disturbing the night, prostitution, and bullet proof plexiglass.

We're sick of it.

Last time, post your proof or shut your trap, don't theorize and write a check your butt can't cash. I live in a black neighborhood and know black police and none of them complain about working there. As a cop, your life is on the line everyday you're on duty, now please post proof that black police sued because of being assigned to black neighborhoods.

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 07:16 PM

Goddamn right! It's a bitch living with them creatures.

Fuck the proof! Detroit is the proof, Harlem is the proof, Camden is the proof, Richmond VA is the proof.

New Orleans even transformed in a normal city without the majority of the Africoon's.

Another troll posting insignificant rants and non-sequitir.

OVERWATCH

11-20-2005, 07:21 PM

Then please explain why the arrest rate is lower than the three strikes conviction rate.

The % of those arrested for felonies vs. the % of those convicted as third strikers need not correlate at all. It should go without saying that not everyone arrested for a felony is going to fit third strike criteria.

The article is poorly written and ambiguous, you are reading things into it which it does not state.

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 07:24 PM

The % of those arrested for felonies vs. the % of those convicted as third strikers need not correlate at all in the way you assume they should. It should go without saying that not everyone arrested for a felony is going to fit third strike criteria.

The article is poorly written and ambiguous, you are reading things into it which it does not state.

Poorly written? Come on now, most of those imprisoned on the thrid strike are in jail for nonviolent crimes, such as stealing batteries, hardly a reason to give someone life imprisonment. The third strike need not be a felony.

OVERWATCH

11-20-2005, 07:33 PM

Poorly written? Come on now, most of those imprisoned on the thrid strike are in jail for nonviolent crimes, such as stealing batteries, hardly a reason to give someone life imprisonment. The third strike need not be a felony.

I am not familiar with California's third strike law, but some states who have similar laws deem the condition for third strike to be three(3) offences for the same crime, iirc. Maybe someone can dig up the California law and post it here?

I also feel that life imprisonment for nonviolent offences is very excessive. However, for violent offences, armed robbery, and the like, I am in favour of public execution.

But re-read the article, the "% arrested" as stated in the article- arrested for what? Except for the one stat which states "felony arrests", the "% arrested" stat could mean any arrest whatsoever,as it doesn't state that they are "third strike arrests".

Jimbo Gomez

11-20-2005, 07:39 PM

I told you before: you don't need to bother yourself with deciding who's a troll chuck, the moderation staff and ONLY the moderation staff will take care of that for you. ;)

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 07:50 PM

I am not familiar with California's third strike law, but some states who have similar laws deem the condition for third strike to be three(3) offences for the same crime, iirc. Maybe someone can dig up the California law and post it here?

I also feel that life imprisonment for nonviolent offences is very excessive. However, for violent offences, armed robbery, and the like, I am in favour of public execution.

But re-read the article, the "% arrested" as stated in the article- arrested for what? Except for the one stat which states "felony arrests", the "% arrested" stat could mean any arrest whatsoever,as it doesn't state that they are "third strike arrests".

Felonies do encompass violent crime, so if the felony arrest rate was low we can conclude that the arrest were for most nonviolent crimes. that would make the third strike law excessive. Giving someone life imprisonment fro three straight non-felony crimes is far too excessive and it disproportionately affects blacks. If anyone wonders why there#s a high rate of black imprisonment, its partly due to laws like this along with mandatory sentencing laws for drug convictions.

Dances with Wolves

11-20-2005, 07:54 PM

Felonies do encompass violent crime, so if the felony arrest rate was low we can conclude that the arrest were for most nonviolent crimes. that would make the third strike law excessive. Giving someone life imprisonment fro three straight non-felony crimes is far too excessive and it disproportionately affects blacks. If anyone wonders why there#s a high rate of black imprisonment, its partly due to laws like this along with mandatory sentencing laws for drug convictions.

Hey Charley, where do you live? Just curious. I seriously doubt you live in "the hood" and drive a nice car. More than likely you have never moved from your parents house in the 'burbs. Would I be correct in assuming such?

Charles_Rigaud

11-20-2005, 07:59 PM

Hey Charley, where do you live? Just curious. I seriously doubt you live in "the hood" and drive a nice car. More than likely you have never moved from your parents house in the 'burbs. Would I be correct in assuming such?

i live in Mississippi in the Delta region in an all black neighborhood and i do drive a nice car.

OVERWATCH

11-21-2005, 02:24 AM

Felonies do encompass violent crime, so if the felony arrest rate was low we can conclude that the arrest were for most nonviolent crimes..

There are many felonies which are nonviolent, grand theft, many drug offences, multiple DUIs, etc.

Also, many misdemeanors are 'violent', such as assault.

Although most misdemeanors are non violent and most felonies are violent I believe.

that would make the third strike law excessive. Giving someone life imprisonment fro three straight non-felony crimes is far too excessive

I seriously doubt that anyone becomes a third striker on misdemeanors though.

Posting the Calif. three strikes law would be of great help, because that's a crucial part of this discussion.

and it disproportionately affects blacks.

Yet, earlier in the thread you asserted that whites and blacks committed violent/nonviolent crime in equal ratios. An assertion that you have yet to back up; and if you did back it up, such a thing would invalidate the argument you just gave above.

If anyone wonders why there#s a high rate of black imprisonment, its partly due to laws like this along with mandatory sentencing laws for drug convictions.

Partly due to mandatory sentencing for drugs, but overwhelmingly due to the fact that blacks commit more crime; and lack reasons for mitigation.

jcs

11-21-2005, 02:35 AM

A person comes up with some valuation, then proceeds to make attempts to rationalize it. Knowingly or no, Charles Rigaud is perpetuating the myth of black martyrdom. Whether he just likes to feel like a member of a martyred people or is using this martyrdom-myth to push for egalitarianism (or is just trolling), I am unsure. So the martyr-complex might be the pre-rational valuation, or might be part of a rationalization. Whatever it is, laugh with me as he struggles to find proof to support his delusions.

Vindex

11-21-2005, 02:44 AM

Itz a crime to be White and working class, these days.

Dances with Wolves

11-21-2005, 03:49 AM

Itz a crime to be White and working class, these days.

You got that right brother.

Starr

11-22-2005, 03:36 AM

This is a lie, the black police that do complain don't complain about being sent to black neighborhoods, they complain about discrimination within the police department and mistreatment of black citizens by white police. Don't tell lies back up your inane rambling at least with some proof.

Sorry I do believe I screwed up your post trying to respond:o

I still can't help but wonder if you are a white liberal. I don't even know why it is just a feeling I get. So black cops bitch about racist whitey, big surprise. I am also sure, however that they do also complain about being sent to black neighborhoods. For whatever reasons you want to blame it on, it is more then obvious that predominately black neighborhoods are going to generally be more crime ridden that white neighborhoods. And who would know this better then either a cop or a "negro" themselves? So unless they are looking for some excitement and thrills(some probably are) and want to make it through the day in one piece, then it is a tad harsh to say something that should be so obvious is a "lie."

African-American youth with no prior incarceration are 48 times more likely than a similar White youth to be sentenced to juvenile prison for a drug offense. Even when the White youth is sentenced, it’s generally for less time than an African-American youth.

While White youth generally use, sell, and purchase illegal drugs at rates similar to or greater than African-American youth, African- American youth are arrested for drug offenses at about twice the rate of whites.

And again with the drug thing. Have you been to prison for a drug offense, charles?:D
What kinds of drugs are we talking about here? All it says is "illegal drugs" or "drug offenses" Some drugs are more harmful to the user and to society than others and sometimes that may be taken into account when sentenced. Also taken into account is the amount of the drug found on the individual. These things are not addressed, but should be. A person found in possession of a tiny amount(I don't know all the real technical terms here:o ) of marijuana, for instance is probably going to get a lighter sentence and should, than someone found in possession of a large amount of crack. I would suspect these "small details" are left out for a reason.;) Dig up an article that shows that blacks are given a harsher sentence then whites for example when both are found in possession of similar amounts of meth and with very similar arrest records and I will be a little more inclined to believe what you are saying, though I am not going to lie and say I would care, or loose any beauty sleep over it.

Dances with Wolves

11-22-2005, 04:55 AM

Starr, I don't believe he's a negro living in the Mississippi Delta. That area is the poorest area of the country. The only people driving nice cars there are White farmers.

Charles_Rigaud

11-26-2005, 12:45 PM

Starr, I don't believe he's a negro living in the Mississippi Delta. That area is the poorest area of the country. The only people driving nice cars there are White farmers.

The Delta is full of black people and I am not white nor do I accept the term Negro, its 2005 not 1955. I prefer black or African American.

Charles_Rigaud

11-26-2005, 12:53 PM

Never, you probably have more drug convictions than me because I've never had one.

[QUOTE]Common sense should dictate that since whites tend to buy there drugs from other whites and whites use crack more than blacks, then whites should make up the higher percentage of crack convicts but they do not, the war on drugs is designed to target minorities disproportionately, maybe because those who drafted use cocaine themselves.

Starr

11-26-2005, 06:31 PM

[QUOTE=Charles_Rigaud]Never, you probably have more drug convictions than me because I've never had one.

This is true. Around these parts I am known as the real-life white female version of Tony Montana.

Common sense should dictate that since whites tend to buy there drugs from other whites and whites use crack more than blacks, then whites should make up the higher percentage of crack convicts but they do not, the war on drugs is designed to target minorities disproportionately, maybe because those who drafted use cocaine themselves.

Common sense may also dictate that some may recognize that, though there could be more whites, in numbers, who use or deal drugs, that blacks, individually are more likely to be doing these things.

These are in no way, actual percentages obviously, but just to illustrate my point; If one group consists of individuals where 1 out of 10 are involved with illegal drugs in some form, and another group consists of people where 1 out of 75 are drug users/dealers, who does it make more sense to "target" at a higher rate?

Vindex

11-26-2005, 07:18 PM

The niggers commit so much crime, they should just call niggers, crimes.

Tyrone_Hartlan

11-27-2005, 07:55 AM

Theres only one race the human race, the rest is nationalist garbage.

Helios Panoptes

11-27-2005, 08:13 AM

Theres only one race the human race, the rest is nationalist garbage.

This fellow is going places. :p

Keystone

11-27-2005, 12:07 PM

Theres only one race the human race, the rest is nationalist garbage.
You're right about there being one race. All humans can interbreed. "White" people aren't the only ones who practice racism, however.

Jews, blacks, asians all do it; but today it seems Europeans and their overseas cousins are asked to lay down their own languages and customs in their own lands in favor of others. That makes folk uncomfortable and angry, Tyrone.

Anarch

11-27-2005, 01:13 PM

i live in Mississippi in the Delta region in an all black neighborhood and i do drive a nice car.

Did you steal it?

OVERWATCH

11-27-2005, 05:01 PM

Theres only one race the human race, the rest is nationalist garbage.

That is a nonsensical platitude, a race whether socially or biologically defined needs another out-group to contrast itself with.

Anyhow, you have already referred to Jews as a race in another post, so you've contradicted yourself already.

OVERWATCH

11-27-2005, 05:03 PM

You're right about there being one race. All humans can interbreed. "White" people aren't the only ones who practice racism, however.

The ability to interbreed and produce fertile offspring is a defining characteristic of species, not subspecies, which is another term for race.

Hrolf Kraki

11-27-2005, 05:28 PM

The Delta is full of black people and I am not white nor do I accept the term Negro, its 2005 not 1955. I prefer black or African American.

I agree here. We should refer to them in the terms that pleases them the most. From now on I will only use black of African-American, but I don't accept the term white. I'd prefer lord or master. :D

But really, what's the point of even arguing with this guy? Furthermore, why even post statistics? It's blatantly obvious as to what's going on. I could dig up statistics and post them all day long and all he would do is try to explain how it wasn't their fault and the police set them up or they were in the wrong place at the wrong time or some other such nonsense.

But just for the sake of posting it, here's some stats I found after about 2 minutes of searching. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ageracesex.htm

Keystone

11-27-2005, 05:31 PM

The ability to interbreed and produce fertile offspring is a defining characteristic of species, not subspecies, which is another term for race.
So race is another term for subspecies; which would mean "races" can't interbreed?

Maybe it's the commas....:(

Charles_Rigaud

11-27-2005, 06:37 PM

The ability to interbreed and produce fertile offspring is a defining characteristic of species, not subspecies, which is another term for race.

No scientific supporting evidence to boot, this is nonsense.

Charles_Rigaud

11-27-2005, 06:40 PM

I agree here. We should refer to them in the terms that pleases them the most. From now on I will only use black of African-American, but I don't accept the term white. I'd prefer lord or master. :D

But really, what's the point of even arguing with this guy? Furthermore, why even post statistics? It's blatantly obvious as to what's going on. I could dig up statistics and post them all day long and all he would do is try to explain how it wasn't their fault and the police set them up or they were in the wrong place at the wrong time or some other such nonsense.

But just for the sake of posting it, here's some stats I found after about 2 minutes of searching. http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ageracesex.htm

What the stats don't tell is that most black males are involved in black on black crime and I do admit the black-on-black violence is a big concern, but it isn't what people make it out to be. Most young black males[myself included] are law abiding citizens and very productive people, the actions of those who act unbecomingly do *NOT* define us as a race.

Keystone

11-27-2005, 07:20 PM

What the stats don't tell is that most black males are involved in black on black crime and I do admit the black-on-black violence is a big concern,
Yes it is. Blacks killing blacks on a daily basis leads white folk to believe that maybe it's time they leave that area. Which they have. What is the "black community" doing about it?
but it isn't what people make it out to be.
Baloney. I live amongst young black males killing and wounding each other. Almost every day. Over nothing. It's a huge problem in inner cities.
Most young black males[myself included] are law abiding citizens and very productive people, the actions of those who act unbecomingly do *NOT* define us as a race.
They do if you keep making excuses for them.

Starr

11-27-2005, 07:22 PM

Yes it is. Blacks killing blacks on a daily basis leads white folk to believe that maybe it's time they leave that area. Which they have. What is the "black community" doing about it?

What are they doing? what they do best, blaming whitey.

Keystone

11-27-2005, 07:36 PM

What are they doing? what they do best, blaming whitey.
Ya, and demanding more money for more programs to somehow cure the lawlessness they are born into. LOL. Rubbers and birth control pills would go much farther and they are less expensive.

There is no pleasing the average angry black by the white man. Ever. The change has to come from them.

Hrolf Kraki

11-27-2005, 07:39 PM

What the stats don't tell is that most black males are involved in black on black crime and I do admit the black-on-black violence is a big concern, but it isn't what people make it out to be. Most young black males[myself included] are law abiding citizens and very productive people, the actions of those who act unbecomingly do *NOT* define us as a race.

Let's be honest here. I don't know anything about you, but based on your posts you seem to be a fairly intelligent person. I am aware of the fact that many young black males are indeed law abiding citizens, but you can't ignore the fact that the crime rates seem to soar whenever blacks move into an area. I've seen this occur in parts of the city where I live and it really puts things into perspective when you see it first hand. To tell you the truth, I feel sorry for the young black males who are only trying to better themselves, but are hindered by a negative stereotype that has been generated by the actions of a great number of problematic blacks. Instead of trying to make excuses for the blacks giving decent black folk a bad name, why not try expose them for what they are: a plague on society. If you want blacks to have a better name and for us not to have such a bitter distaste for many of them, don't try to convince us that we're wrong about what we see. Try to convince other blacks to act like civilized people. Convince them that their gangs, crime, and all the other idiotic things that they are doing is what's really hurting the black race. It's not us!

zenero

11-27-2005, 07:41 PM

Baloney. I live amongst young black males killing and wounding each other. Almost every day. Over nothing. It's a huge problem in inner cities.I thought you lived in a happy place.

Where do you live?

Keystone

11-27-2005, 07:46 PM

I thought you lived in a happy place.

Where do you live?
Pittsburgh.

Not a happy place, racially speaking.

Keystone

11-27-2005, 07:54 PM

Let's be honest here. I don't know anything about you, but based on your posts you seem to be a fairly intelligent person. I am aware of the fact that many young black males are indeed law abiding citizens, but you can't ignore the fact that the crime rates seem to soar whenever blacks move into an area. I've seen this occur in parts of the city where I live and it really puts things into perspective when you see it first hand. To tell you the truth, I feel sorry for the young black males who are only trying to better themselves, but are hindered by a negative stereotype that has been generated by the actions of a great number of problematic blacks. Instead of trying to make excuses for the blacks giving decent black folk a bad name, why not try expose them for what they are: a plague on society. If you want blacks to have a better name and for us not to have such a bitter distaste for many of them, don't try to convince us that we're wrong about what we see. Try to convince other blacks to act like civilized people. Convince them that their gangs, crime, and all the other idiotic things that they are doing is what's really hurting the black race. It's not us!
Very sensible post.

White folk disavow idiotic behavior of their people, but it seems it's a racial sin for blacks to do the same.