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View Full Version : Are the Irish genetically predisposed to mass alcohol consumption?


Nyx
11-18-2006, 08:18 AM
Red Indians are. Is this plausible?

(Serious question.)

Anarch
11-18-2006, 08:26 AM
What about the Germans with beer? Russians with vodka? Serious questions.

Vasily Zaitsev
11-18-2006, 08:55 AM
I voted "yes," but it's a qualified "yes."

Europeans in general seem to be especially fond of alcohol. Not as hopelessly unable to handle it as Red Indians, but strongly attracted none-the-less.

Nyx
11-18-2006, 08:55 AM
What about the Germans with beer? Russians with vodka? Serious questions.
Show me the statistics for alcoholics for those nationalities.

Halo
11-18-2006, 11:59 AM
I would like everyone that has voted to show some research behind their answers.

MrAngry
11-18-2006, 12:07 PM
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9110088/alcohol-consumption

Well they do drink a lot! But its probably cultural and environment that causes this. :mad:

Hachiko
11-18-2006, 12:09 PM
Next poll, are Blacks genetically predisposed to massive chicken ingestion? :negro:

Ahknaton
11-18-2006, 12:13 PM
I would like everyone that has voted to show some research behind their answers.

Genetic basis for alcoholism:

http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v11/n6/abs/4001811a.html

Genomewide linkage study in the Irish affected sib pair study of alcohol dependence: evidence for a susceptibility region for symptoms of alcohol dependence on chromosome 4

Abstract

Alcoholism is a relatively common, chronic, disabling and often treatment-resistant disorder. Evidence from twin and adoption studies indicates a substantial genetic influence, with heritability estimates of 50–60%. We conducted a genome scan in the Irish Affected Sib Pair Study of Alcohol Dependence (IASPSAD). Most probands were ascertained through alcoholism treatment settings and were severely affected. Probands, affected siblings and parents were evaluated by structured interview. A 4 cM genome scan was conducted using 474 families of which most (96%) were comprised by affected sib pairs. Nonparametric and quantitative linkage analyses were conducted using DSM-IV alcohol dependence (AD) and number of DSM-IV AD symptoms (ADSX). Quantitative results indicate strong linkage for number of AD criteria to a broad region of chromosome 4, ranging from 4q22 to 4q32 (peak multipoint LOD=4.59, P=2.1 times 10-6, at D4S1611). Follow-up analyses suggest that the linkage may be due to variation in the symptoms of tolerance and out of control drinking. There was evidence of weak linkage (LODs of 1.0–2.0) to several other regions, including 1q44, 13q31, and 22q11 for AD along with 2q37, 9q21, 9q34 and 18p11 for ADSX. The location of the chromosome 4 peak is consistent with results from prior linkage studies and includes the alcohol dehydrogenase gene cluster. The results of this study suggest the importance of genetic variation in chromosome 4 in the etiology and severity of alcoholism in Caucasian populations.

http://www.alcoholrehabireland.com/

The genetic makeup of Irish people predisposes some to alcohol abuse.

Nyx
11-18-2006, 12:18 PM
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9110088/alcohol-consumption

Well they do drink a lot! But its probably cultural and environment that causes this. :mad:Alcoholism is genetically influenced, and other ethnicities, such as Indians, are more susceptible to alcoholism because of the constitution of their bodies. I don't think it entirely implausible that it might also be the case with other ethnicities who have similar reputations.

I don't know if it is true, it was just a thought that occurred to me - maybe other people might know more about this?

MrAngry
11-18-2006, 12:22 PM
Alcoholism is genetically influenced, and other ethnicities, such as Indians, are more susceptible to alcoholism because of the constitution of their bodies. I don't think it entirely implausible that it might also be the case with other ethnicities who have similar reputations.

and the research is........... where?:mad:

Nyx
11-18-2006, 12:25 PM
and the research is........... where?:mad:I don't believe the Irish are genetically predisposed to mass alcohol consumption. (I voted only to see the results.) I should like to see research on this as well.

Don Quixote
11-18-2006, 12:26 PM
and the research is........... where?:mad:Back issues of Punch magazine circa 1870.

Ahknaton
11-18-2006, 12:37 PM
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol.html

Twin, family, and adoption studies have firmly established that genetics plays an important role in determining an individual's preferences for alcohol and his or her likelihood for developing alcoholism. Alcoholism doesn't follow the simple rules of inheritance set out by Gregor Mendel. Instead, it is influenced by several genes that interact with each other and with environmental factors.(1)

There is also some evidence that genes influence how alcohol affects the cardiovascular system. An enzyme called alcohol dehydrogenase helps metabolize alcohol. One variant of this enzyme, called alcohol dehydrogenase type 1C (ADH1C), comes in two "flavors." One quickly breaks down alcohol, the other does it more slowly. Moderate drinkers who have two copies of the gene for the slow-acting enzyme are at much lower risk for cardiovascular disease than moderate drinkers who have two genes for the fast-acting enzyme.(16) Those with one gene for the slow-acting enzyme and one for the faster enzyme fell in between. It's possible that the fast-acting enzyme breaks down alcohol before it can have a beneficial effect on HDL and clotting factors.

MrAngry
11-18-2006, 12:45 PM
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol.html

Tenous, phrases such as "evidence suggets" hardly equate to conclusive. Even people from similar economic, racial and enviromental background have differing tolerances and predispositions to alcohol. Just take a walk in any UK city center on a Saturday night...:mad:

Ahknaton
11-18-2006, 12:49 PM
Tenous, phrases such as "evidence suggets" hardly equate to conclusive.
Locating the genes involved is about as conclusive as you can get. It don't think it's possible to every be 100% sure, since it's so hard to separate environmental influences, even with twin studies.
Even people from similar economic, racial and enviromental background have differing tolerances and predispositions to alcohol. Just take a walk in any UK city center on a Saturday night...:mad:
Variation within groups doesn't disprove variation between groups, even if the within-group variation exceeds the between-group variation.

Also, it should be pointed out that although there is evidence of a partial genetic basis to alcoholism, it hasn't (to my knowledge) been conclusively shown that the Irish have a higher frequency of these alcohol-related genes. I voted "yes" anyway (despite having some Irish ancestry) because I think a genetic basis is more likely, given that the genetics-alcholism link has been demonstrated and the Irish have higher rates of alcoholism. There is probably some genetic component to these inter-group differences.

Geist
11-18-2006, 12:59 PM
Back issues of Punch magazine circa 1870.

Indeed, thats where a lot of forums members seem to be mentally on the Irish issue.

MrAngry
11-18-2006, 01:01 PM
Locating the genes involved is about as conclusive as you can get. It don't think it's possible to every be 100% sure, since it's so hard to separate environmental influences, even with twin studies.

I agree. :mad:

Variation within groups doesn't disprove variation between groups, even if the within-group variation exceeds the between-group variation.

Neither does it prove it. :mad:


Also, it should be pointed out that although there is evidence of a partial genetic basis to alcoholism, it hasn't (to my knowledge) been conclusively shown that the Irish have a higher frequency of these alcohol-related genes. I voted "yes" anyway (despite having some Irish ancestry) because I think a genetic basis is more likely, given that the genetics-alcholism link has been demonstrated and the Irish have higher rates of alcoholism. There is probably some genetic component to these inter-group differences.


Very contradictory :mad: :confused: :mad:

Ahknaton
11-18-2006, 01:05 PM
Neither does it prove it.
Of course not. It's simply irrelevent, which is why you shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.
Very contradictory :mad: :confused: :mad:
No it isn't. You simply can't cope with shades of grey. The (partial) genetic basis of alcoholism has been shown, but whether a higher incidence of these genes accounts for higher rates of Irish alcholism has not been shown conclusively, however the evidence suggests that this may be so.

Read post #8:

The results of this study suggest the importance of genetic variation in chromosome 4 in the etiology and severity of alcoholism in Caucasian populations.

MrAngry
11-18-2006, 01:09 PM
Of course not. It's simply irrelevent, which is why you shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.

No it isn't. You simply can't cope with shades of grey. The (partial) genetic basis of alcoholism has been proven, but whether a higher incidence of these genes accounts for higher rates of Irish alcholism has not been shown conclusively.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/alerts/l/blnaa18.htm

Ahknaton
11-18-2006, 01:29 PM
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/alerts/l/blnaa18.htm
That pretty much confirms most of what I've been saying. I conceded right from the start that the genetic determination of alcoholism was only partial and that environment also played a part. Notice that the thread title refers to a predisposition to mass alcohol consumption, which leaves room for environmental factors to influence whether this predisposition is actualised into actual alcoholism.

Halo
11-18-2006, 01:32 PM
Genetic basis for alcoholism:
Thank you very much. Nice yo see you are honest.

Jonathan
11-18-2006, 03:49 PM
No, I don't think so. I also find it interesting that the only other Irish people who voted also voted No. Alcohol certainly plays a big role in Irish life, but I'm not sure if I'd deduce from this that we are genetically predisposed to mass alcohol consumption.

In relation to Ahk's informative posts I'd have to say that, while the info. shows that alcoholism is [to an extent] heritable, that is not to say that Irish people i.e. All Irish people, are genetically predisposed to mass alcohol consumption.

AFAIK Ireland actually has a relatively high number of Teetotalers too. The reason that the statistic clearly show that allot alcohol is consumed is because those that are doing the consuming tend to do allot of it (it's also worth noting that modern increases in Irish alcohol consumption indicate that we are drinking allot more wine nowadays that whiskey et al.). Take Masty for example. He claims to come online drunk regularly enough. Now compare that to the likes of Geist or Basil Fawlty. How often do they come online and claim to be drunk? So I wouldn't conlude that Irish people are predisposed to alcohol consumption.

edited: PS There are also far more Public Houses in Ireland per head than in most places around the world, but this has as much to do with the price of a Pint than the number of drinkers!

Sandee
11-18-2006, 04:22 PM
I thought it had more to do with the culture than genetic predisposition. :confused: Plus, either way, if it is indeed true, whatever genetic predisposition they might have developed surely is a result of consuming alcohol more than others (cultural).

Geist
11-18-2006, 04:41 PM
Interestingly, as a personal fact, my grandparents were teetotalers for their entire lives, and they are hardly the only Irish people I know like this.

Jonathan
11-18-2006, 05:06 PM
Interestingly, as a personal fact, my grandparents were teetotalers for their entire lives, and they are hardly the only Irish people I know like this.
So were all of mine as it happens!

P.S. That the women were teetotalers isn't of much significance. Alcoholism was really a "men's only" thing up until recently in this country.

Don Quixote
11-18-2006, 05:10 PM
Actually most of my close friends are non-drinkers or only ocassional drinkers, as am I, very ocassional.

The culture of drinking is the problem here, not the numbers.

Intrepid
11-18-2006, 05:24 PM
Northern Europeans, in general, are more apt to be susceptible to the ravages of alcoholism. From Sailer's blog:

Indeed. Evolutionary Psychology™ has a quasi-Creationist tendency to assume that human evolution miraculously came to an end with the invention of agriculture. In truth, it probably sped up at that point as conditions leading to survival or death changed radically. To take one obvious example, people whose recent ancestors didn't know how to make alcohol, such as Eskimos, most American Indians, and Australian aborigines, have a much harder time dealing with alcohol today than do people descended from a long line of imbibing Eurasian farmers. And among those, Mediterranean peoples such as Italians and Jews are much less likely to be ravaged by alcoholism than are Northern Europeans who didn't have access to wine until recently.

http://isteve.blogspot.com/2005/08/slatecom-makes-human-biodiversity-case.html

Kodos
11-18-2006, 05:59 PM
Often yes... which is why I avoid the stuff. I have some heavy alchoholic genes on my mother's side.

Kodos
11-18-2006, 06:01 PM
AFAIK Ireland actually has a relatively high number of Teetotalers too.

This is because if you have a genetic predisposition to becoming a bad drunk and you know it teetotaling is an approach you might take.

kane123123/Eagle Eye/stumbler/iceman
11-18-2006, 06:20 PM
I'm still rejoicing over the fact that this forum doesn't set here and play big brother protecting anybody who isn't jewish.

Yes, I voted yes.

Don Quixote
11-18-2006, 06:21 PM
I'm still rejoicing over the fact that this forum doesn't set here and play big brother protecting anybody who isn't jewish.That's because you attack everyone except the Jews.

kane123123/Eagle Eye/stumbler/iceman
11-18-2006, 06:32 PM
That's because you attack everyone except the Jews.
You know the funniest thing about this. In real life, people consider me anti-semetic. It's just that people on these online forums are so detached from reality that I end up defending jews.

As for irish, just go to Philadelphia for a day lol. No, it isn't all irish, but it is an irish tendency.

Leshrac
11-18-2006, 08:12 PM
What about the Germans with beer? Russians with vodka? Serious questions.

You should come to belgium :p

Average beers by person under 40 per year : 744 :) :p

Average beers by person under 30 per year : 917.

we rule :rofl:

Hrolf Kraki
11-18-2006, 09:11 PM
Yes, and that's why the Irish are so bad ass! I'm also predisposed to massive alcohol consumption. Just yesterday, I couldn't wait until at least noon to crack open a beer. I was slamming one at 11am. :p

However, I have a friend here that is of 100% Irish heritage and he even speaks Gaelic yet he very rarely drink alcohol. Once he had some sissy drink like a white russian and was tipsy. I have told him that if it wasn't for his knowledge of Gaelic, he would truly be a disgrace to his ancestors. :rofl:

Hrolf Kraki
11-18-2006, 09:12 PM
You should come to belgium :p

Average beers by person under 40 per year : 744 :) :p

Average beers by person under 30 per year : 917.

we rule :rofl:

Dude, I OWN those numbers. :viking:

Hermetic
11-18-2006, 09:20 PM
I think it is more environmental I know in England and probably Ireland thier is a pub on every corner almost and it seems to be part of the culture.

On the genetic part I have read people with lower IQ's are more likey to be alcoholics and studies show the averge Irish IQ to be in the double digit range.

Berianidze
11-18-2006, 09:36 PM
the same question could be asked of Russians though; as they are known to be susceptible to the bottle just as easily as the Irish.

MrAngry
11-18-2006, 09:42 PM
Unless I have missed something, every "race" who has a percieved drinking problems seems to be white, and they seem to be proud of it in some ways..... :mad:

Johnson
11-18-2006, 09:50 PM
The legendary Irish drinking fortitude is way overblown and generally not grounded in fact.

Northern_Paladin
11-18-2006, 09:54 PM
Yes and their culture reflects that. There's a Pub on almost every street corner in any city where there's a sizable Irish population.

Berianidze
11-18-2006, 09:55 PM
The legendary Irish drinking fortitude is way overblown and generally not grounded in fact.
This is true; I don't know many Irishman, but none of them exhibit the stereotpyical drinking (or fighting)habits for which they are credited. In fact, I was quite disappointed when I saw one dry heaving in a bush after only 2 drinks (it blew my stereotypical mind).

Heavens to Betsy
11-18-2006, 10:55 PM
I voted yes for the hell of it.
I doubt we know enough about genetics to test for a general predispositions among a population.

But the Irish are probably culturally predisposed to the demon drink. Compared to America for instance.

Anarch
11-19-2006, 12:28 AM
You should come to belgium :p

Average beers by person under 40 per year : 744 :) :p

Average beers by person under 30 per year : 917.

we rule :rofl:

Average amount of alcohol consumption per person in Australia in 1969: 168.79 litres in beer alone. Last available statistics, according to a site I came across while googling.

Arthur Daley
11-19-2006, 12:34 AM
I drink on Friday nights and abstain for the rest of the week. I see this as a myth propagated by both sides of the Irish propaganda offensive. Heavy drinkers I know are often astounded at the level of alchohol in some northern English cities although how much and what one drinks is a popular topic of conversation - so much so that I'm quite sick of it..

Liz
11-19-2006, 01:18 AM
Well I've known a few people of Irish extraction with drinking problems....but I'm not so sure that you could say the Irish people as a whole have a propensity for being drunks. I'm really on the fence about it. We need a Not Sure option. :)

Geist
11-19-2006, 01:15 PM
This is like a collection of random things people may have heard about Ireland, and Irish people during their time at the Phora all spewed out in one thread ;)

Burrhus
11-19-2006, 04:20 PM
No, but the Irish are genetically pre-disposed to produce phenotypes that incite British oppression which might lead some Irishmen to drink a bit too much.

brigadier Biggles
11-19-2006, 04:26 PM
thread question ?, who cares !

the real question is: will the Irish girls on here ever post nudes ?.

Ahmadinebobina
11-19-2006, 06:08 PM
No. Culturally predisposed, quite likely.

Keystone
11-19-2006, 06:11 PM
thread question ?, who cares !

the real question is: will the Irish girls on here ever post nudes ?.
They can keep their shoes on, if desired.

Daniel Shays
11-19-2006, 06:35 PM
and the research is........... where?:mad: Red Indians are very prone to alcohol addiction for the same reason they are to diabetes. Their environment favored slower digestion to make the most of a scant diet for thousands of years. Their bodies can't break down sugars at the rates we see in European men.

Jonathan
11-20-2006, 08:51 AM
There's a Pub on almost every street corner in any city where there's a sizable Irish population.
Funny to note that the "Pub" was first introduced into Ireland by the British.

il ragno
11-20-2006, 08:57 AM
Are the Irish genetically predisposed to mass alcohol consumption?

The answer is yes.

But for God's sake don't tell them that; they're predisposed to violence, too.

shanemac
11-20-2006, 10:02 AM
Are the Irish genetically predisposed to mass alcohol consumption?

The answer is yes.

But for God's sakes don't tell them that; they're predisposed to violence, too.


Sure, they never read the letters anyway....

Carlos Danger
11-20-2006, 10:23 AM
Take Masty for example. He claims to come online drunk regularly enough. Now compare that to the likes of Geist or Basil Fawlty. How often do they come online and claim to be drunk? So I wouldn't conlude that Irish people are predisposed to alcohol consumption
:D

Come on Shane, you know the Irish are hypersensitive about this issue

OTOH "everybody knows" calvinists are sober folk, so when one of them gets blind drunk in public it's just written off as a temporary abberation, with no deeper significance

delete
11-20-2006, 10:25 AM
I believe Shane speaks the truth here.
From 'Myths of British Ancestry', genetics phora
The Irish are, in the paternal lineage, descendants of the Palaeolithic Hunter-Gatherers who populated most of Europe before the Neolithic Revolutions (farming etc). This is confirmed by the high-levels of Haplogroup R1b and Haplotype 15 in the Irish. This is confirmed by the relatively high levels of Blood-type 0- in Ireland. In terms of Physical-Anthropology, the relatively high number of Brunns seems to agree with the Palaeolithic Hunter-Gatherer hypothesis too. Continental Celts did not leave a significant strain in the Irish gene-pool.
....
Irish people weren't exposed to large quantities of Gluten in their diets until the 19th century. The Hemochromotosis is to be explained by a changing in Iron content in the Irish Blood stream because of poor nutrition during the various famines.


A genetic tolerance for alcohol is probably the result of genetical pressure stemming from relative afluent farmers drinking to much, and I don't see that in Ireland.

I vote Yes.

Masty
11-20-2006, 10:27 AM
Take Masty for example. He claims to come online drunk regularly enough. Now compare that to the likes of Geist or Basil Fawlty. How often do they come online and claim to be drunk? So I wouldn't conlude that Irish people are predisposed to alcohol consumption.Fairly regularly, yes. 99% of the time I'm on here after having several beers is the weekend though.

In fact the more alcohol the better especially if I've accidentally clicked-onto the greater Scotland thread..... bloody hell, I need even more after reading through that.

Straight Satan
11-20-2006, 10:37 AM
Next poll, are Blacks genetically predisposed to massive chicken ingestion? :negro:

No, just rape.

Dr. Gutberlet
11-20-2006, 03:03 PM
Q. What is 5 miles long and has an IQ of 25?




A. the St. Patrick's Day parade

JohnAFlynn
11-20-2006, 03:32 PM
Are the Irish genetically predisposed to mass alcohol consumption?

The answer is yes.

But for God's sake don't tell them that; they're predisposed to violence, too.

You're right on the second count, (See e.g. The Boondock Saints, The Departed) but I don't drink at all. :)

Dr. Gutberlet
11-20-2006, 05:17 PM
My perpetually drunk Irish neighbor, Seamus O'Halloran:


http://content.clearchannel.com/Photos/movies/sasquatch_hunters/sasquatch_hunters_1.jpg

Geist
11-20-2006, 05:28 PM
You're right on the second count, (See e.g. The Boondock Saints, The Departed) but I don't drink at all. :)

Ragno's Italian, he could teach us a thing or two about gangs :D

And, Dr. Gutberlet thats two sub-par pot-shots. You need to employ some wit to get the desired LOL you crave.

Dr. Gutberlet
11-20-2006, 05:36 PM
Ragno's Italian, he could teach us a thing or two about gangs :D

And, Dr. Gutberlet thats two sub-par pot-shots. You need to employ some wit to get the desired LOL you crave.

I could care less. Jessie Lee Kane would laugh, Mazdak will cry, and that is all that matters.:confused:

kane123123/Eagle Eye/stumbler/iceman
11-20-2006, 05:39 PM
BTW, I noticed most of the name the jew crew avoided this poll. I wonder why, has the stormfront political corretness that you can't attack another gentile white effected you guys, or do you just freaking do everything as a block, like when the last jew poll magically jumped 10 points in a few hours? You guys make good lemmings.

Burrhus
11-20-2006, 06:21 PM
BTW, I noticed most of the name the jew crew avoided this poll. I wonder why, has the stormfront political corretness that you can't attack another gentile white effected you guys, or do you just freaking do everything as a block, like when the last jew poll magically jumped 10 points in a few hours? You guys make good lemmings.

You seem to have missed the memo, Kane, you philo-semitic race-traitors are the lemmings. Wake up before Nuremberg II comes around, dude.

Anarch
11-21-2006, 02:38 AM
BTW, I noticed most of the name the jew crew avoided this poll.

I don't vote in polls very often nowadays.

kane123123/Eagle Eye/stumbler/iceman
11-21-2006, 02:42 AM
You seem to have missed the memo, Kane, you philo-semitic race-traitors are the lemmings. Wake up before Nuremberg II comes around, dude.
You are creative...very creative....:rofl:

Burrhus
11-21-2006, 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by Burrhus
You seem to have missed the memo, Kane, you philo-semitic race-traitors are the lemmings. Wake up before Nuremberg II comes around, dude.

You are creative...very creative....

Thank you, Kane. I can be very dis-creative too.

shanemac
11-21-2006, 03:14 PM
Q. What is 5 miles long and has an IQ of 25?

A. the St. Patrick's Day parade


I'm not sure if the Irish are predisposed to alcoholism, but I am sure that the Swedes are predisposed to not being funny. :whip:

Hachiko
11-21-2006, 03:16 PM
Q. What is 5 miles long and has an IQ of 25?




A. the St. Patrick's Day parade
Wait, wait, wait...
I thought it was the Welfare line!
:rofl:

Carlos Danger
11-21-2006, 08:10 PM
Intrepid's post (http://www.thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=232710&postcount=27) is on the mark: ALL northern Europeans are "genetically predisposed" to alcohol abuse, not just the Irish

Burrhus
11-21-2006, 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by Dr. Gutberlet
Q. What is 5 miles long and has an IQ of 25?

A. the St. Patrick's Day parade

Wait, wait, wait...
I thought it was the Welfare line!
:rofl:

No, Hachiko, the joke goes like this:

Q. What's two miles long and moves at 5 mph?

A. A Puerto Rican funeral with only one set of jumper cables.