Increasing vaginal size through Eugenics

[Ixtab]

. . . there is a reason to increase vaginal size - the pace of evolution has worked so rapidly [and would be accelerated through eugenics, which would select for IQ and therefore, to some extent, brain size - FS] that skulls of human babies are too big for their mothers' vaginal openings. During birth, the vagina usually rips. Even more striking, according to this source, by 1980, 15 percent of births were caesarian births.
Childbirthfor humans is not like it is for most mammals. Dogs and cats will give birth to whole litters, but when human mothers give birth it is usually to one baby at a time, and that single baby places a great strain on her system.
The pelvic cavity is not always favorably situated, the hips are not always wide enough, and the vagina is almost always too small for a comfortable birth; it seems wise to use eugenics to nudge these traits in a direction more favorable to childbirth.
http://www.childrenofmillennium.org/eugenics.htm

[Björn]

Umm... Yeah but then after the vagina's are bigger who would tap that? Personally speaking I prefer it tight. You would have to make something else bigger too. :hump:

[Helios Panoptes]

Umm... Yeah but then after the vagina's are bigger who would tap that? Personally speaking I prefer it tight. You would have to make something else bigger too. :hump:

Genetic improvement takes precedence over the individual's sexual pleasure.

[Arminius]

This is true. I think Stephen Hawking covered it in a book. The only way to have children to be born with bigger brains, is to artificially enlarge motherly openings or to grow foeti in artificial wombs. I prefer the latter, mostly because I think altering a woman's body isn't good for sexual reasons. Note that Ix wouldn't consider sex into his opinions because he thinks it's evil.

[Johnson]

Better make bigger schlongs to go with that.

[Sandee]

. . . there is a reason to increase vaginal size - the pace of evolution has worked so rapidly [and would be accelerated through eugenics, which would select for IQ and therefore, to some extent, brain size - FS] that skulls of human babies are too big for their mothers' vaginal openings. During birth, the vagina usually rips. Even more striking, according to this source, by 1980, 15 percent of births were caesarian births.
Childbirthfor humans is not like it is for most mammals. Dogs and cats will give birth to whole litters, but when human mothers give birth it is usually to one baby at a time, and that single baby places a great strain on her system.
The pelvic cavity is not always favorably situated, the hips are not always wide enough, and the vagina is almost always too small for a comfortable birth; it seems wise to use eugenics to nudge these traits in a direction more favorable to childbirth.
http://www.childrenofmillennium.org/eugenics.htm

You have got to be kidding me... I think the mothers are going into overfeed mode during pregnancies. They dose up a lot on vitamins and what not. Babies nowadays are born heavier than in the past. I understand that giving birth is painful; however, I find this a bit overboard. The vaginal walls can stretch wide enough for the baby. If not, what is wrong with caesarian anyway? Some doctors would perform an episiotomy if the vaginal opening poses a problem:

http://parenting.ivillage.com/pregnancy/plabor/0,,6znb,00.html

Having a larger vaginal canal, doesn't necessarily mean that other delivery-related problems (such as the umbilical cord getting wrapped around the baby's neck) won't occur.

[Stick to the Facts]

. . . there is a reason to increase vaginal size - the pace of evolution has worked so rapidly [and would be accelerated through eugenics, which would select for IQ and therefore, to some extent, brain size - FS] that skulls of human babies are too big for their mothers' vaginal openings. During birth, the vagina usually rips. Even more striking, according to this source, by 1980, 15 percent of births were caesarian births.
Childbirthfor humans is not like it is for most mammals. Dogs and cats will give birth to whole litters, but when human mothers give birth it is usually to one baby at a time, and that single baby places a great strain on her system.
The pelvic cavity is not always favorably situated, the hips are not always wide enough, and the vagina is almost always too small for a comfortable birth; it seems wise to use eugenics to nudge these traits in a direction more favorable to childbirth.
http://www.childrenofmillennium.org/eugenics.htm

Vaginas are stretchy. (I'm a bit surprised you didn't know that, hmmmm....)

The thing that complicates childbirth isn't so much the diameter of the vaginal canal as it is the wideness of the hips. The single greatest difficulty in natural childbirth is getting the head through.

A wider vaginal canal would increase the risk of such things as yeast, bladder, and other infections. The purpose of the hymen is to help prevent these for as long as possible, until sexual intercourse.

[Helios Panoptes]

Vaginas are stretchy. (I'm a bit surprised you didn't know that, hmmmm....)

The thing that complicates childbirth isn't so much the diameter of the vaginal canal as it is the wideness of the hips.

Actually, it is the size of the pelvis.

[calvin]

This seems a bit ill concieved (No pun intended) to me, Japanese women seem to be generally more petite than European women but the Japanese have higher average IQs than Europeans. Maybe Japanese brains develop for longer periods outside the womb?

That being said, it seems to be common sense that babies with larger than average heads have a higher than average chance of becoming the victims of complications during childbirth. I wonder if their is a higher than average IQ among cesarian born individuals than among natural birth individuals?

[Stick to the Facts]

Actually, it is the size of the pelvis.

yes that is correct - or even more accurately the size of the opening formed by the pelvis.

[delete]

I don't believe that the japanese are smarter than real whites. They score higher, but the IQ scale is constructed to give women the same intelligence as men, so strick male traits are removed or overlooked. They score higher on the female IQ test that is today.

How do classify people with Asperger? They created a lot of the technology you use today. Or the ADHD people, who once they grow up, never seems to tire?

We also want to say east asians are smarter, as it removes the supremacy overtones from the research.

calvin said:
I wonder if their is a higher than average IQ among cesarian born individuals than among natural birth individuals?

You are alomost correct, but most cesarian mothers are too fat, and have too fat children. Fat people is usually not the brightest in a society like ours.

Also other complications not good for intelligence might provoke a cecarian.
50% of all Pakistani women gets some sort of pregnancy diabetes in Norway, and this means fat children prone to get diabetes themselves.

IIRC, children with a birthweight around 3500 grams, grow up to be the smartes and the most beautiful. That means given our present genetical makeup, a newborn on 3500 grams are ideal.

Change the genetic makeup, and you change the ideal weight.

[Helios Panoptes]

I don't believe that the japanese are smarter than real whites. They score higher, but the IQ scale is constructed to give women the same intelligence as men, so strick male traits are removed or overlooked.

1) IQ tests are not constructed to give women the same IQ as men. Further, women do not score as high as men.
2) East asians score highest on visuospatial sub-tests, on which males have an advantage over females.

They score higher on the female IQ test that is today.

IQ tests are not female.

How do classify people with Asperger?

They are "classified" as having Asperger's Syndrome.

They created a lot of the technology you use today. Or the ADHD people, who once they grow up, never seems to tire?

To say that dead people who were not formally examined had such conditions is speculation.

[Helios Panoptes]

Some of the reasoning that one sees occasionally on the forum is comical. If certain individuals do not care for the findings of research, it might as well not exist. It doesn't matter how careful and overwhelming the evidence is. These certain individuals simply stick their fingers in their ears and say "LALALALALALALALALALA - I'm not listening - LALALALALA." I can't take it. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[delete]

I know that East asians score highest on visuospatial sub-tests, on which males have an advantage over females.

The best gamers are N-european and to lesser degree east Asians, and I believe this more than some visio-spatial test. Crunch the numbers and you will see that dominance of computer games should not fall to the N-europeans.

http://www.gotfrag.com/cs/nationsranking/
Remember 4.5 mill norwegians, 9 mill swedes and 5 mill danes.

As we want progress, we need technical intelligence, not Machiavellian.

Different populations have different qualities, and I don't believe that one or 10 numbers is going to give anything other than an indication.

Do you really claim that Asperger people get their correct intelligence?

[delete]

IQ tests are not constructed to give women the same IQ as men

Of course they are to some degree. When you weight the different scores to produce the final score, you have to chosse your weigths.

Even when they try this, men scores higher.

[Helios Panoptes]

I know that East asians score highest on visuospatial sub-tests, on which males have an advantage over females.

The best gamers are N-european and to lesser degree east Asians, and I believe this more than some visio-spatial test. Crunch the numbers and you will see that dominance of computer games should not fall to the N-europeans.

http://www.gotfrag.com/cs/nationsranking/
Remember 4.5 mill norwegians, 9 mill swedes and 5 mill danes.

It is ridiculous to think that nations' ranks in Counterstrike carry more weight than scores on meticulously constructed intelligence tests. You are cherrypicking to support your biases in the worst possible way. I have to laugh....only on the internut.

As we want progress, we need technical intelligence, not Machiavellian.

Visuospatial ability is not Machiavellian, as far as I know.

Different populations have different qualities, and I don't believe that one or 10 numbers is going to give anything other than an indication.

Different populations do have different qualities. Jews appear to have superior verbal ability, east asians superior spatial. Acknowledging that there are differences between the intellectual profiles of different populations does not imply that they are equal.

Do you really claim that Asperger people get their correct intelligence?

Why wouldn't I? People with Asperger's Syndrome cover the full scale in intelligence, some are highly intelligent, many others are average(or worse). Most have significantly higher VIQ than PIQ.

N.B. I have been diagnosed with Asperger's and I score very high on intelligence tests.

[Helios Panoptes]

Of course they are to some degree. When you weight the different scores to produce the final score, you have to chosse your weigths.

Even when they try this, men scores higher.

Okay, so your problem then is that too much weight is given to VIQ. Well, there are tests which do not have a verbal section at all, and these tend to be the most g-loaded of all(an example is the RAPM).

[Ixtab]

This seems a bit ill concieved (No pun intended) to me, Japanese women seem to be generally more petite than European women but the Japanese have higher average IQs than Europeans. Maybe Japanese brains develop for longer periods outside the womb?Japanese brains are about the same size as Caucasian brains - it's only when you take body size into account that Asians have significantly larger brains.

[Ixtab]

Vaginas are stretchy. (I'm a bit surprised you didn't know that, hmmmm....)I am aware of this. But average head size could increase considerably if average IQ is increased.

[Stick to the Facts]

I am aware of this. But average head size could increase quite considerably if average IQ is increased.

Vaginas are really really REALLY stretchy.

As I said, the hard part has nothing to do with the size of the vagina but rather the size of the opening formed by the pelvis.

The 'tearing' is easily dealt with by a simple episiotomy.

[Heimdall]

Better make bigger schlongs to go with that.

You are a man of the most astute logic.

[Ixtab]

Vaginas are really really REALLY stretchy.Our head sizes will increase considerably. Some women already have difficulty with childbirth due to the head size. My head was malformed when I was born.

[Stick to the Facts]

Our head sizes will increase considerably. Some women already have difficulty with childbirth due to the head size. My head was malformed when I was born.

And once again that problem is due to the size of the pelvis and not the vagina. Why do you keep ignoring that part?

No one's head is malformed because of any impediment posed by the vagina, sorry. If a vaginas too narrow there won't be any harmful effect to the baby, only to the mother, and that sort of thing isn't life threatening.

[Ixtab]

You are nitpicking. You know what is being referred to. There is no need to argue over words. The head size is often larger than the pelvic opening. This often creates difficulties for childbirth. This is a universally known medical fact.

No one's head is malformed because of any impediment posed by the vaginaIt was due to my head size. And it does happen a lot.

If a vaginas too narrow there won't be any harmful effect to the baby, only to the mother,And our head size will increase.

and that sort of thing isn't life threatening.Low IQ isn't life threatening. Eugenicists seek to improve the human race; to make life easier for people.

[Stick to the Facts]

You are nitpicking. You know what is being referred to. There is no need to argue over words. The head size is often larger than the pelvic opening. This often creates difficulties for childbirth. This is a universally known medical fact. Either you knew what was meant or you are exceptionally dull.

It was due to my head size. And it does happen a lot.

And our head size will increase.

Low IQ isn't life threatening. Eugenicists seek to improve the human race; to remove as many flaws as possible.

Maybe the problem here is that you're talking about the diameter of the vagina when you should be talking about the diameter of the CERVIX. The cervix does need to dilate to 10cm and if it isn't able to do that it can be a big problem.

And aside from the ability to actually dilate to 10cm is the timing of the dilation. if it would dilate, but not quickly enough so that it is ready at the right time, that's a problem because the baby's head will be stuck in that position for too long - and if the umbilical cord is wrapped around its head or if the baby is in breach position the consequences can be dire.

IQ will undoubtedly increase but that doesn't mean that that will necessarily result in larger head size at-birth. It is already clear that one way we have adapted to take care of that is by having more head growth after birth.

Eugenics is crap. Ask anyone whether they would be a candidate for breeding and they will all say yes, no doubt (or 90+ percent anyway.) There is already a natural system of eugenics at play. Nature knows best for whom to select.

[Ixtab]

Maybe the problem here is that you're talking about the diameter of the vagina when you should be talking about the diameter of the CERVIX. The cervix does need to dilate to 10cm and if it isn't able to do that it can be a big problem.More quibbling. By now you ought to know what I was talking about. "The head size is often larger than the pelvic opening. This often creates difficulties for childbirth. This is a universally known medical fact."

IQ will undoubtedly increase but that doesn't mean that that will necessarily result in larger head size at-birth.Untrue. IQ is correlated with head size at birth.

It is already clear that one way we have adapted to take care of that is by having more head growth after birth.To a limited extent in our case, because there are still complications during childbirth as a result of the head size of the baby. Furthermore, the selective pressures that produced these adaptations are no longer operative due to commonly practiced medical interventions; so that if we artificially increase the average IQ, it does not necessarily follow that we will adapt in the manner you have described. Such adaptions would themselves have to be artificially created - by, for instance, increasing the size of the pelvic opening. Restricting the fertility of individuals with exceptionally large heads (the only other alternative) would create unnecessary complications, in regard to the stated goal of increasing average intelligence.

Eugenics is crap.No, it isn't.

Ask anyone whether they would be a candidate for breeding and they will all say yes, no doubt (or 90+ percent anyway.)1.) Traditional Eugenics has no implications for the majority of the population. They would neither benefit nor be disadvantaged by eugenicist legislation. Francis Galton divided mankind into three categories - desirables, undesirables, and passables. Passables - the majority of the population - don't have particularly high reproductive rates anyway. They would be unaffected by eugenics. Desirables would receive incentives to reproduce. Undesirables - a minority of the population - would receive incentives not to reproduce, or simply be sterilised. Everyone else is unaffected. Unless you have reason to fear a serious revolt from crackheads and the mentally retarded, I am not seeing the justification for this particular objection.
2.) New Eugenics is completely voluntary anyway.

There is already a natural system of eugenics at play.The prevalence of dysgenic fertility speaks otherwise.

[calvin]

Eugenics is crap

Robert Graham open the Nobel Prize Sperm Bank in 1980, although only one donor actually was a Nobel prize winner, Graham's achievements were quite impressive. David Plotz traced some of the progeny of the NPSB for his book "The Genius Factory". All of the kids/young adults that he traced were academic high achievers, the poster boy for the NPSB is Doron Blake who has an IQ of 180.

[sugartits]

How much of an increase in infant head size can be speculated? Certainly there has to be a limit to what is possible due to anatomical proportions.

[Arminius]

How much of an increase in infant head size can be speculated? Certainly there has to be a limit to what is possible due to anatomical proportions.

http://www.thetruthishere.com/conehead-profile.jpg

http://www.theamericanmind.com/images/conehead.jpg

[Sandee]

^ The skull seems to be longer than wider in shape. :confused:

[Northern_Paladin]

Actually it's both the size of the Pelvis and the Vagina that effects child birth. The problem with increasing the size of the Pelvis is an inefficiency in locamotion. It's long been shown that males of the same height move around more effeciently because they have narrower hips.

[Winston]

You eugenicists leave the vaginas alone, they're fine how they are!

[Stick to the Facts]

Actually it's both the size of the Pelvis and the Vagina that effects child birth. The problem with increasing the size of the Pelvis is an inefficiency in locamotion. It's long been shown that males of the same height move around more effeciently because they have narrower hips.

Yes this is another factor.

[Arminius]

You eugenicists leave the vaginas alone, they're fine how they are!

Don't mess with perfection, eh? ;)

[delete]

To Helios. I got distracted, and I almost feel like spamming as it has nothing to do with the thread.

Ok, I will search some more on the games and brain-eye-hand coordination as it is not only in counterstrike you see this phenomena. IIRC all the major computergames shows the same pattern. I also belive I have seen some research on how computer gaming could be used as a proxy for visio-spatial IQ.

Raven Advanced Progressive Matrices is probably a better tool to test and compare IQ than gaming I agree, but the ultimate test still has to be dominance in the real world.

Apropos Asperger syndrome I have it in my family aswell, and I don't think IQ scores represents their ability to create new technology or learn new stuff.
They are actually the main reason I started to doubt IQ reseach, on any issue other than large gereral trends.
I don't see their creativety represented or their rather unike ability to focus on issues others couldn't be bothered about.

I am not well read in IQ research, but i do know statistics.
When you measure multidimentional testvalues, but want one score, there is now way that you can do this without weights, and these weights have to subjective or based on asumptions about distributions.

The ability IQ measures, and the ability you need in the real word, are not the same, but the test is made to correlate theese two. This means statistical optimalization, and this means a lot of asumptions about the model.

You almost always get systematical errors, because the distributions don't fit, and I don't mean statistical bias, as this can be corrected. (non-normal distribution assued to be normal is the most common error)

I don't know what systematical errors translates into on IQ research, but I reckon it is at least a couple of points.
Real world success is the yardstick, and I don't see IQ scores fit this yet.

[Northern_Paladin]

Yes this is another factor.

There is yet another one. And wouldn't we men need bigger Penises if women had bigger Vaginas and larger birth canals?:D

You eugenicists leave the vaginas alone, they're fine how they are!

There fine until multiple childbirths and aging at least.

[sugartits]

There is yet another one. And wouldn't we men need bigger Penises if women had bigger Vaginas and larger birth canals?:D

:rofl: This has been brought up quite a few times in this thread. Creepy.

[Northern_Paladin]

Run Date: 11/14/04
By Sandy Kobrin
WeNews correspondent
Surgery to reshape the labia and other areas of the vagina is picking up fast, say plastic surgeons. While some women undergo the operations to improve comfort, many want to conform to ideals set by the porn industry.


LOS ANGELES (WOMENSENEWS)--She was 20 years old and had never contemplated plastic surgery. But one day at the gym, the pretty, smooth-faced receptionist in a Los Angeles doctor's office looked at her vagina and noticed that her inner vaginal labia stuck out past her outer labia. She was horrified.

"I looked in like, those magazines, and saw that inner labia shouldn't stick out like mine did," said Crystal, who requested her last name be withheld. "So I had a labiaplasty and now I love the way I look; nice and neat and new. My vagina looks perfect."

In a labiaplasty, the surgical reshaping of female external genital structures, larger or uneven inner vaginal lips are cut and shortened.

Dr. V. Leroy Young, chair of the emerging trends task force of the Arlington Heights, IL., American Society of Plastic Surgeons, believes labiaplasty and vaginal cosmetic surgery are the fastest growing emerging growth trend in cosmetic plastic surgery.

While the organization has no exact numbers yet nationwide, Young noted that more and more doctors were querying the organization, inquiring about learning the procedure. In addition, the physicians that perform vaginal cosmetic surgery have reported enormous increases in patients, particularly over the past decade.

Dr. Pamela Loftus, a plastic surgeon in Boca Raton, Fla., has been performing labiaplasties and vaginal cosmetic surgeries for over 20 years.

Since she put up a Web site two and a half years ago, her business has increased and she's been bombarded with queries. Loftus said she does around six labiaplasties a week. "For the past two years we have been avalanched with phone calls from women who have been made aware of the surgery and want it," Dr. Loftus said.

Physicians advertising vaginal cosmetic procedures surgeries are peppered throughout magazines across the country as this type of cosmetic surgery grows in popularity. As society pressures women to look younger and more perfect, many physicians believe the popularity of these types of surgeries will continue to grow.

Cosmetic surgery in general is on the rise. About 870,000 cosmetic procedures were performed in 2003, a 6.7 percent increase over 2002, according to American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery statistics. These surgeries include breast augmentation, gluteal implants, liposuctions, face lifts, and others, including labiaplasties.

"The numbers for labiaplasty are increasing every year and I think the procedure has finally been accepted in the mainstream," Young said. "This was once a procedure that fell under the radar and now you have women coming in and asking for it."

Former Domain of Sex Workers
Labiaplasty was once the domain of sex workers, nude entertainers, nude models, swimsuit models and the occasional woman who needed her labia reduced for medical reasons such as infection or pain. Not anymore. Doctors have reported that women from every walk of life and from ages 15 to 75 are having labia and cosmetic vaginal surgery.

Many doctors who perform the surgeries say while there are some women who opt for the surgery because they are unhappy or their labia has caused them physical discomfort, the bulk of the women getting this surgery are ultimately being pressured by men who want them to conform to a idea of beauty most often seen in the porn industry. Doctors say these women request the procedure because they are afraid of having "old looking" vaginas. Doctors Loftus and Young say feedback from male partners is the number one reason women request the surgery.

"The most common reason we hear is that they have had a negative comment made by a male sexual partner. Women are made to feel that they are not perfect the way they are and often it's the partner that sets this off," Loftus said.

"My feeling is that women who aren't sex workers are getting this kind of thing because there's pressure from someone who's telling them they're not perfect," Young said. 'There's often pressure from a man who tells them they need it," adding "I assume that their standards for labial beauty were set by a combination of the porn industry, sex-oriented magazines and the Internet."

Sign of Aging
Los Angeles gynecologist Dr. David Matlock, who says he performs more vaginal cosmetic surgery than anyone else in the country, claims women are having labiaplasties and other forms of vaginal cosmetic surgery because "longer, lose hanging inner lips is a sign of aging and women don't want to look old there, either."

"Even young women will look at loose hanging labia as a sign of aging and want to have it done," he said.

Loftus, the Florida surgeon, agreed. "Youth-enhancing surgery is very common now. Why should it stop with the face? Girls 20 to 30 years old now want every part of their body to look as young as they are."

"Women want to be tight," said Matlock. "They don't want sagging or loose labia. I can't tell you how many pages and pages of pornographic material woman have brought into me saying 'I want to look like this.'"

"Ever since I had the surgery, I feel young and free and prettier for my boyfriend," Crystal said. "Even if it's something nobody else can see, I feel better. It's not on my mind all the time anymore."

Another cosmetic surgery--vaginal rejuvenation--is also rising. It entails tightening the vaginal and perineum area, often stretched during childbirth. Some doctors also claim it increases sexual pleasure for both partners.

"I've had women who come in and say to me, 'He's small can you tighten me up'" said Matlock, who said he performed between 40 to 60 vaginal cosmetic surgeries a month in his Beverly Hills practice, charging around $5,000 for a labiaplasty. He said he grosses $250,000 a month performing these surgeries and noted he has had women come in from all over the world for vaginal cosmetic surgery.

Downside Risk
Some doctors dispute whether constructing a tighter vagina increases a woman's sexual pleasure. "Yes you can do the rejuvenation to have a tighter vagina," said Young. "But anytime you make an incision you cut nerves, induce scarring and there is a downside risk, including pain."

"Plastic surgery is being way over used in many different ways" said Kim Gandy, president of the National Organization for Women. "There's something off about what's going on in our culture that makes women feel they need to live up to some ideal."

Ileana Vasquez is a 29 year-old Southern California housewife with four children. She read about vaginal rejuvenation after she saw an ad in a magazine. Her marriage was in trouble and she noted that her husband wasn't happy with her sexually.

"One time he had a few beers and told me that because I had all our kids and was looser now he didn't want me as a woman anymore," Vasquez said. "He did say he was sorry later on but I knew he was telling the truth."

Vasquez had the surgery and she noted her marriage is back on track and her sex life is good again. "He's become my sweetheart again," she said. "He bought me a house and he wants me all the time."

Then she paused. "But there are times I still can't forgive him for how he made me feel," she said. "Sometimes I get so mad, so hurt. I mean I had the kids, he should have understood."

Sandy Kobrin is a Los Angeles based writer who specializes in writing about women's issues and criminal justice.

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2067/context/archive

[Helios Panoptes]

To Helios. I got distracted, and I almost feel like spamming as it has nothing to do with the thread.

Ok, I will search some more on the games and brain-eye-hand coordination as it is not only in counterstrike you see this phenomena. IIRC all the major computergames shows the same pattern. I also belive I have seen some research on how computer gaming could be used as a proxy for visio-spatial IQ.

I posted something about visuospatial ability and gaming in the past. Try searching my username for "visuospatial." Perhaps add "gaming" to the query.

Raven Advanced Progressive Matrices is probably a better tool to test and compare IQ than gaming I agree, but the ultimate test still has to be dominance in the real world.

RAPM is undoubtedly more g-loaded than Counterstrike.


I am not well read in IQ research, but i do know statistics.
When you measure multidimentional testvalues, but want one score, there is now way that you can do this without weights, and these weights have to subjective or based on asumptions about distributions.

The ability IQ measures, and the ability you need in the real word, are not the same, but the test is made to correlate theese two. This means statistical optimalization, and this means a lot of asumptions about the model.

You almost always get systematical errors, because the distributions don't fit, and I don't mean statistical bias, as this can be corrected. (non-normal distribution assued to be normal is the most common error)

I don't know what systematical errors translates into on IQ research, but I reckon it is at least a couple of points.
Real world success is the yardstick, and I don't see IQ scores fit this yet.

Meta-analyses of hundreds of test validation studies have shown that the validity of a highly g-loaded test with demonstrated validity for a particular job in a particular organizational setting is generalizable to virtually all other jobs and settings, especially within broad job categories.


Virtually every type of work calls for behavior that is guided by cognitive processes. As all such processes reflect g to some extent, work proficiency is g loaded. The degree depends on the level of novelty and cognitive complexity the job demands. No job is so simple as to be totally without a cognitive component. Several decades of empirical studies have shown thousands of correlations of various mental tests with work proficiency. One of the most important conclusions that can be drawn from all this research is that mental ability tests in general have a higher success rate in predicting job performance than any other variables that have been researched in this context, including (in descending order of average predictive validity) skill testing, reference checks, class rank or grade-point average, experience, interview, education, and interest measures. [22] In recent years, one personality constellation, characterized as "conscientiousness," has emerged near the top of the list (just after general mental ability) as a predictor of occupational success.


One study, [24a,b] based on 24,000 subjects in training for thirty-seven diverse jobs, used the method of correlated vectors, in which the vector of g loadings of the ten ASVAB subtests was correlated with the vector of ten validity coefficients of each of the ASVAB subtests for predicting training success. The rank-order correlation between the two vectors was +.75; this correlation increased to +.98 when the effect of the subtests' differing reliabilities was statistically controlled. In brief, the larger a test's g loading, the better it predicts training success. The study was replicated [24b] on a sample of 78,000 subjects across 150 different job training courses, yielding a correlation of +.96 (controlling the subtests' reliabilities) between the subtests' g loadings and their validity coefficients. 25



On the other hand, if you have a test specific to the capability you are testing, then what do you need an intelligence test for?A test specific to the capability you are testing may be highly loaded on experience. It has been consistently shown that the value of previous experience in any job fades over time with respect to the value of g. In other words, any given person with a master's degree in Library Science will tend to be outperformed as a reference librarian by any given person with no education beyond a high school diploma who also has a higher IQ, as long as the job lasts long enough for the latter person to crystallize his intelligence in the library milieu.


Residual Validity of Amount of Education. Some employers use number of years of education or other educational credentials as a basis for selecting workers. These measures are usually valid predictors, though seldom as valid as tests of general ability, except for a specialized job where specific educational qualifications are intrinsic and essential. Educational credentials derive almost all of their predictive validity from their substantial correlation with g. In general, the number of years of education, for example, is correlated .60 to .70 with IQ. Since the applicants for many jobs are self-selected in terms of educational qualifications, the true correlation of educational level with ability is even higher. It may seem surprising, but in most selection situations the validity coefficient for years of education is typically not more than .10 to .15 versus a g validity of .40 to .50 in similar situations. Further, the incremental validity of education over a measure of g is practically nil. This is largely because the variance in educational level (measured by the highest school grade completed) is less than the variance in actual ability in the applicant pool and also because there is a wide range of ability at every level of education. On tests of general ability, such as IQ, and even on tests of scholastic achievement, there is considerable overlap between the score distributions of high school graduates and college graduates [36]

The g-Factor by Arthur Jensen, pp. 291.

[Björn]

You eugenicists leave the vaginas alone, they're fine how they are!

*Pink Floyd parody*

we don't need no big vaginas
we don't need no expanding brain lobes
hey eugenists! leave those vaginas alone!

[Helios Panoptes]

I posted something about visuospatial ability and gaming in the past. Try searching my username for "visuospatial." Perhaps add "gaming" to the query.

No luck. I must have posted the link only.

[antibuddha]

Umm... Yeah but then after the vagina's are bigger who would tap that? Personally speaking I prefer it tight. You would have to make something else bigger too.

There's always the backdoor.


Anyway, how long has the trend for preferring thin, petite women been around? Perhaps women with slimmer hips are being "bred" and this is part of the problem? I'm not sure if this is the case, but it's an idea.

[Ahknaton]

Better make bigger schlongs to go with that.
What about the inverse correlation alleged by Rushton between penis size and IQ?

Perhaps we could genetically engineer women with pouches like kangaroos. That would solve the problem.

[delete]

To helios.

I have read your reply. I dont see how this changes anything.

It only says Iq-test are the best objective predictor for future success, and I have no issues with that.

Helios
One study, [24a,b] based on 24,000 subjects in training for thirty-seven diverse jobs, used the method of correlated vectors, in which the vector of g loadings of the ten ASVAB subtests was correlated with the vector of ten validity coefficients of each of the ASVAB subtests for predicting training success. The rank-order correlation between the two vectors was +.75; this correlation increased to +.98 when the effect of the subtests' differing reliabilities was statistically controlled. In brief, the larger a test's g loading, the better it predicts training success. The study was replicated [24b] on a sample of 78,000 subjects across 150 different job training courses, yielding a correlation of +.96 (controlling the subtests' reliabilities) between the subtests' g loadings and their validity coefficients. 25


The two studies had correlation of +.96. How did they measure this?
You don't have to answer, but my hunch is that they aggregatet first in some way, and then did the correlation.

Helios
It may seem surprising, but in most selection situations the validity coefficient for years of education is typically not more than .10 to .15 versus a g validity of .40 to .50 in similar situations.


IQ testing is the most accurate of a lot of unaccurate tests. :)

http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,282652,00.gif
You have seen this IQ comparisons of europe, but did you know that these tests most probably were done in school by teachers or from the army? (Based on PISA perhapes?)

How the schoolsystem and the bureaucracy is organized will determine who gets tested. Some countries have special schools with their own curriculum for stupid students, other countries do not. Some countries count their immigrants into the national average, others do not.

These are examples of systematical errors, and is the main reason I don't believe these IQ tests for countries is accurate right now, but they do tell trends.
(If this table is based on PISA, I know for a fact that what I tell is true.)

[Hrolf Kraki]

Umm... Yeah but then after the vagina's are bigger who would tap that? Personally speaking I prefer it tight. You would have to make something else bigger too. :hump:

True story. Who the hell wants a loose vagina? Not I.

[Ixtab]

True story. Who the hell wants a loose vagina? Not I.You are not female, nor are you a eugenicist, so your opinion is irrelevant.

[Helios Panoptes]

I have read your reply. I dont see how this changes anything.

It only says Iq-test are the best objective predictor for future success, and I have no issues with that.

You had said that "The ability IQ measures, and the ability you need in the real word, are not the same..." I disagree with this. Evidence indicates that g is very important for the "real world." That was the point of the selection I quoted.

The two studies had correlation of +.96. How did they measure this?
You don't have to answer, but my hunch is that they aggregatet first in some way, and then did the correlation.

I think you've misread. There was not a correlation of .96 between the findings of the studies. There were two studies. One found .98, the other .96.

You have seen this IQ comparisons of europe, but did you know that these tests most probably were done in school by teachers or from the army? (Based on PISA perhapes?)

How the schoolsystem and the bureaucracy is organized will determine who gets tested. Some countries have special schools with their own curriculum for stupid students, other countries do not. Some countries count their immigrants into the national average, others do not.

These are examples of systematical errors, and is the main reason I don't believe these IQ tests for countries is accurate right now, but they do tell trends.
(If this table is based on PISA, I know for a fact that what I tell is true.)

My suggestion would be to go to the link where you found that chart, then find out who compiled the national IQs, then find the component studies, and there you will find sampling information. It is probably Richard Lynn's. It should not be difficult to find the studies he used. I have already done this myself when specific ones were the topic of discussion.

P.S. We're drifting off the topic we were discussing earlier, which was East Asians. Their intellectual profile is replicated wherever they are tested. It also holds for Amerinds(+ spatial, - verbal). It is a consistently recurring pattern

[Brechun]

This seems a bit ill concieved (No pun intended) to me, Japanese women seem to be generally more petite than European women but the Japanese have higher average IQs than Europeans. Maybe Japanese brains develop for longer periods outside the womb?

That's a bullshit theory, but it has a shred of truth to it- a commonly understood law of biology is that organisms with larger and more complex brains require longer infancy, and the same applies to humans. This is due to the fact that such complex brains require substantially more energy to develop, leading to slower maturation. At the same time giving another payoff- a child that matures more slowly leaves room for more neurological, mental and emotional development. Looking at chinese and japanese newborns compared to caucasian ones, their heads are quite larger. I think I read somewhere that east asian women have larger hips than caucasian women...

IMO people really underestimate the average east asian IQ. Their heads are so huge I'd esimate their IQ falls into the jewish range. The same goes for asian-americans. Their average of 105 is heavily depressed by including low IQ asians like fillipinos, vietnamese, thais, etc.

If eugenics goes into practice, it's doubtful people would need to artificially enlarge their cunts. High IQ babies- well, big brained ones have greater birth weights/body size/body weights in general. Thus, people born with large brains would already have the prerequisets for giving birth to more high IQ offspring- all of that increased body size would come with bigger pelvises. Like Sandee said, birth weights have been increasing over the years, and it is true C-section are significantly higher than normal: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051116/csection_birth_051116?s_name=&no_ads=

But those are such huge gains for such short periods of times. That would seem to contradict the idea that higher rates of C-sections are due to big brained babies, thus IQ increases.

There are some European nations that come close to the east asian average, such as the Scandinavians, Icelandics, and Germans. Germans especially when looking at their head size:

http://www.smartlife-project.net/smartlife/images/German_Student_Exchange_Nov_05.jpg
http://www.ippnw-students.org/Photos/Dublin18.JPG

I'm guessing their pelvises are bigger too.

....Then again I don't take eugenics seriously, but just offering some insight here.

[Björn]

So I was going down on my girlfriend the other day and I said "Geez you got a big pussy! ...Geez you got a big pussy!" and she says "ok but why did you say it twice?" and I said "I didn't..."

[Hrolf Kraki]

You are not female, nor are you a eugenicist, so your opinion is irrelevant.

I've actually engaged in intercourse so my opinion is very much relevant.

[Ahknaton]

I'm just waiting for the "classify my vagina" threads to appear on NordFolk. Is it possible to tell an Alpine pussy from a Nordic one?

[Björn]

I'm just waiting for the "classify my vagina" threads to appear on NordFolk. Is it possible to tell an Alpine pussy from a Nordic one?

I would be very much obliged to help discern this... :hump:

[Johnson]

I'm hoping Ix realizes that in order to procreate you have to blow your load, and in order to blow your load, your fuckstick has to actually be stimulated. Think beating off without touching your fuckwaldo. Throwin' a hotdog down a hallway. That sort of thing.

[Helios Panoptes]

So I was going down on my girlfriend the other day and I said "Geez you got a big pussy! ...Geez you got a big pussy!" and she says "ok but why did you say it twice?" and I said "I didn't..."

I don't get it.

Edit: Oh, an echo. Understood.

[Winston]

IMO people really underestimate the average east asian IQ. Their heads are so huge I'd esimate their IQ falls into the jewish range. The same goes for asian-americans. Their average of 105 is heavily depressed by including low IQ asians like fillipinos, vietnamese, thais, etc.


Low IQ asians don't factor into asian IQ averages by nation. Japan doesn't have an average IQ in the Jewish range, nor do any of the other high IQ nations in North East asia.

[Brechun]

Low IQ asians don't factor into asian IQ averages by nation. Japan doesn't have an average IQ in the Jewish range, nor do any of the other high IQ nations in North East asia.

Low IQ asians don't factor into asian IQ averages by nation

Uh what? The asian-american IQ we see in america includes everyone classifying themselves as asian, so it's probably bogged down by many low average asian IQ groups. Get rid of them and the real average is probably 110-115 since you're left with the japanese and chinese mostly. They were self-selective to begin with when coming to the US, but their home-nations have really caught up.

Their general test scores are significantly higher than americans and even higher than rich white nations like Australia, so yes, I'd say their IQ is near the jewish range atleast. We can't know for sure though since Lynn is usually full of shit.

Perfect example being how he gave the black IQ in Britain as 86 when in reality it's 93!

also this thread is fucking creepy :(