Semi-auto copy of PPS-43

[Sudaev]

God damn I want one of these. It's in the same caliber as the original. Alas, they're not "California legal" although the company's working on it.

That SMG was one shit-hot shitpistol.

http://www.militarygunsupply.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=FIRUPPSH43

[Captain Marinesko]

If you like guns, you ought not be in California anymore. Who wants a pump-action AK? Move to Arizona and you can get virtually ANYTHING.

[OVERWATCH]

I was under the impression that folding stocks were verboten by BATF ever since the first big ban? I guess not :D

Some interesting arms at that link, thanks.

[funderbunked]

I was under the impression that folding stocks were verboten by BATF ever since the first big ban? I guess not :D

Fuck the BATF.

The 2nd amendment outranks those geeks.

[OVERWATCH]

The 2nd amendment outranks those geeks.
In theory, yes, but not in practise.

[funderbunked]

USAS-12 shotgun (USA / South Korea)

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/usas-12.jpg

USAS-12 with 20 rounds drum magazine

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/usas-12-1.jpg

USAS-12 with accessories and magazines

Type: gas operated semi-auto or selective fired
Gauge: 12 (2 3/4 in shells - 70 mm chamber )
Length: 960 mm
Barrel length: 460 mm
Weight 5.5 kg empty, 6.2kg loaded with 10 rounds
Capacity: 10 rounds box or 20 rounds drum detachable magazines

History of USAS-12 shotgun is rather interesting. Its design grew up from 1980's vintage designs of Maxwell Atchisson (see Atchisson assault shotgun). In about 1989, Gilbert Equipment Co (USA) decided to bring up the selective fired weapon, broadly based on principles, employed in Atchisson shotguns. The design of new weapon was produced by someone John Trevor Jr. Since Gilbert Equipment Co had no manufacturing capabilities, it started to look for possible manufacturers. It turned out that the only maker that agreed to produce this weapon was South Korean company Daewoo Precision Industries, a part of high-tech DAEWOO conglomerate. Daewoo engineers adopted the new weapon to their manufacturing techniques, and mass production commenced during early 1990s. This gun sold well to military and security forces of several (unspecified) countries in Asia, and more than 30 000 of USAS-12 shotguns were made by mid-1990s. During the same timeframe Gilbert equipment Co tried to bring semi-automatic version of USAS-12 to US market, but BATF promptly classified this weapon as "having no sporting purpose", so it became "Class III destructive device" under US 1934 Gun Control Act. This greatly restricted its civilian use. During late 1990s, RAMO Defence Co began to assemble USAS-12 shotguns from Korean and US-made parts for sale on domestic market, but then again, sales of this weapon were limited to government agencies only. Today, this gun is generally not available in USA, but it is probably still is being manufactured by Daewoo in Korea.

USAS-12 is a gas operated, selective fire weapon. It uses a gas system located above the barrel, with more or less conventional rotating bolt locking. The interesting feature, borrowed from Atchisson designs, is the long bolt overtravel, which results in relatively low peak recoil and low rate of fire, which is essential for weapon firing powerful 12 gauge shells. USAS-12 is an ambidextrous weapon, having two ejection ports on each side of the receiver, and two slots on the forearm for cocking handle. The ejector on the bolt and the cocking handle could be easily set to operate either side of the gun, depending on the present shooter needs and preferences. USAS-12 is feed from large capacity box or drum magazines, holding 10 and 20 rounds respectively (there are some sources that indicate that earlier versions of the USAS-12 were imported into USA with 12 and 28 rounds magazines). The polymer buttstock is hollow and is used as a space for bolt group to recoil, so the folding butt version is unavailable for this design. USAS-12 has a post type, hooded front sight at the top of the gas chamber and an adjustable rear sight built into the carrying handle, similar to one found on M16 assault rifles.

USAS-12 is very bulky and heavy, but the large mass greatly improves the recoil control, especially in full automatic (bursts) mode.

[funderbunked]

In theory, yes, but not in practise.

We The People need to get some practice on, then. It's the only way.

[Vasily Zaitsev]

I'm surprised you were unaware that the AWB sunsetted in 2004, Flak. It's dead and gone. The streets are once again flooded with evil black rifles that even Democratic senators have admitted are barely ever used in crimes. But not for long. Expect AWB2 either early 2007 or shortly after the 2008 elections. Get your useful rifles while you still can.

As for the PPS-43 clone--it's cool but I don't want one. I'm not a fan of SMGs in general (the small contours and virtually undetectable recoil of the M4 and the Krinkov have rendered the entire concept obsolete) and semi-auto versions just strike me as sad. The whole point of a SMG is to be able to throw lots of pistol-caliber lead at the enemy. If full-auto isn't an option I'd rather have a rifle cartridge. I will grant, however, that the 7.62x25's incidental ability to pierce kevlar is impressive.

Although I'm buying neither, for my money I'd get the lengthened (to keep within NFA 1934 regulations) semi-auto clone of the PPSH-41 (http://www.militarygunsupply.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=FIRUPPSH41) that's being offered by the same website. I've always preferred that weapon over its younger cousin for some reason.

[Yon]

We The People need to get some practice on, then. It's the only way.

Remember to hide your wife, dog, and children first. The BATFE have a tendency to see them as primaries.

[Yon]

I will grant, however, that the 7.62x25's incidental ability to pierce kevlar is impressive.


Indeed. 85 grains @ 1500 fps is no slouch of a pistol round. That said, fired from a pistol, it is loud as heck.

edit: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu25.htm gives a nice demonstration of the round's penetrative potentials via CZ-52.

[Vasily Zaitsev]

Indeed. 85 grains @ 1500 fps is no slouch of a pistol round. That said, fired from a pistol, it is loud as heck.

edit: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu25.htm gives a nice demonstration of the round's penetrative potentials via CZ-52.

Even better from the PPS and PPSH, most likely.

Longer barrel = more energy

[Janus]

I prefer economy (http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Romanian_AK_WASR_10_7_62x39_Rifle.html) to nostalgia. ;)

[OVERWATCH]

I'm surprised you were unaware that the AWB sunsetted in 2004, Flak. It's dead and gone. The streets are once again flooded with evil black rifles that even Democratic senators have admitted are barely ever used in crimes. But not for long. Expect AWB2 either early 2007 or shortly after the 2008 elections. Get your useful rifles while you still can.


Yes, well one can never be too sure. I have a hard time keeping up on all the edicts handed out by the mad CONgress-Kapital legislators.

Odds are, you are correct about a new round (pun intended) of assault weapons bans which will be leveled shortly. High capacity magazines would be a good investment, as well as some of the soon-to-be-banned firearms if one can afford it.

[OVERWATCH]

I prefer economy (http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Romanian_AK_WASR_10_7_62x39_Rifle.html) to nostalgia. ;)
The AK is an unbeatable design imo, but I would just love it if someone would resurrect the old MP-44 design and chamber it for 7.62x39 or 5.56.

[Sudaev]

The AK is an unbeatable design imo, but I would just love it if someone would resurrect the old MP-44 design and chamber it for 7.62x39 or 5.56.

I'm glad you brought this up, as it reminded me that there's a company that makes reproductions; alas they're in the original caliber:

http://www.ssd-weapon.com/index.htm

Awesome! The site's in the German language but I still had to scrutinize it for a half hour because I just couldn't believe it--I first thought they were dummy guns.

[OVERWATCH]

I'm glad you brought this up, as it reminded me that there's a company that makes reproductions; alas they're in the original caliber:

http://www.ssd-weapon.com/index.htm

Awesome! The site's in the German language but I still had to scrutinize it for a half hour because I just couldn't believe it--I first thought they were dummy guns.
Very nice find!!!!!

Translated (http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www.ssd-weapon.com/produkte/bd44/bd44.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.ssd-weapon.com/%26hl%3Den%26hs%3DDQt%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official_s%26sa%3DG)

:thanks:

1,996.00 DEM
Germany Deutsche Marks (obsolete) = 1,339.08 USD
United States Dollars




Not bad!!!

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Actually its 1996.00 Euros, not DEM (which do not exist anymore). I would guess this will be just above 2200 US dollars.

[Sudaev]

Now if they could just make an FG-42....

[OVERWATCH]

Now if they could just make an FG-42....

Oh, agreed! :D

Friend Ebus is right about the currency, the price is Euros, which is equivalent to around 2,600 USD.

[OVERWATCH]

Now if they could just make an FG-42....

http://www.ssd-weapon.com/engl_web/produkte_en/fg42_en/fg42_en.htm

:dance2:

[Sudaev]

HO-LY SHIT! HO-LY F*CKING SHIT--is that a working firearm? I assume it is, judging from their Stg-44.

I'm gonna mortgage the house for that sucker...oh wait--I live in CA. Never mind.