Berliners jailed for burning Anne Frank's diary

[koch curve]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3332252,00.html

Prosecutors in Berlin on Friday charged seven suspected neo-Nazis with incitement and disturbing the peace of the dead for burning a copy of Anne Frank's diary and a US flag during a celebration earlier this year.


The men, aged 23 to 28 from Pretzien and Ploetzky in the eastern state of Saxony Anhalt in Germany are accused of holding a ceremony on June 24, during which they praised the Nazis and denied the Holocaust.


"Using neo-Nazi and Nazi language, they ridiculed Anne Frank, and with her all victims of Nazi concentration camps," Magdeburg prosecutors said in a statement.


Denying the Holocaust is a crime in Germany, where it carries a maximum sentence of five years.

http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/20122005/778476/CHA05D_a.jpg

C18 in action

also what is the point in differentiating neo-nazi and nazi language? :hitler:

although i guess theres a minor difference i dont see the point in making the distinction

[Aryan Imperium]

It is the 11th commandment; `Thou shallt not offend thy jewish masters`!

[koch curve]

as despicable as it is to me i dont think anyone should be arrested just for burning a book or a flag

[Aryan Imperium]

as despicable as it is to me i dont think anyone should be arrested just for burning a book or a flag

I agree, the Anne Frank Diaries are despicable.

[koch curve]

I agree, the Anne Frank Diaries are despicable.

:rolleyes:

[il ragno]

She's in the fucking ATTIC!!!!

[Geist]

Combat 18 - I cannot think of a more idiotic group of people.

[koch curve]

all they need is something like this to keep them in a righteous fury for years to come

[Aryan Imperium]

She's in the fucking ATTIC!!!!


LoL! Arrest her now!

[Aryan Imperium]

Combat 18 - I cannot think of a more idiotic group of people.

Well why don`t you meet one and tell him to his face? That`s what a real man would do.

[koch curve]

me my friend itamar and his brother have always wanted to go to a c18 or the like protest, maybe teach them a little קרב מגע

[barbarroja]

"and disturbing the peace of the dead..."

I guess, if some jews say something bad about a goy dead long time, nobody will jail them.
And then you can burn all your books if you want and dislike them, they are NOT humans and have no human rights nor "peace of the dead".

Now you can burnt the bible without problem, during a gay parade, but can´t burnt the jewish "Anne Franks" Bible :nopity:
Germany is a shitty country really, nor freedom since 1945.

[Aryan Imperium]

"and disturbing the peace of the dead..."

I guess, if some jews say something bad about a goy dead long time, nobody will jail them.
And then you can burn all your books if you want and dislike them, they are NOT humans and have no human rights nor "peace of the dead".

Now you can burnt the bible without problem, during a gay parade, but can´t burnt the jewish "Anne Franks" Bible :nopity:
Germany is a shitty country really, nor freedom since 1945.

Indeed and this shittyness is not confined to just Germany but the entire western part of Europe.
It is high time that Aryan man grew some balls and said a great big fuck you to the jews!

[WFHermans]

The kikes are allowed to burn children alive and get paid billions from the German and US government to do so.

If we burn a book that we paid for and that is our legal property, the kikes put us in jail.

[WFHermans]

" Belgian Holocaust denier jailed

Brussels, Nov 15, IRNA


A Belgian historian, Siegfried Verbeke, who denies that the Holocaust ever happened, has been put behind bars.

According to "Flandersnews" website Wednesday, Verbeke was detained by police in the city of Kortrijk and taken to jail.

Verbeke was sentenced to one year's imprisonment and fined 2,500 euros by the Court of Appeals in Antwerp for distribution of literature denying the Holocaust last year.

Verbeke, who runs a website on Holocaust denial, was also wanted by judicial authorities in Germany for the same reason.

He was arrested by Dutch authorities in Amsterdam in November last year and handed over to Germany, where he spent nine months in custody. "

http://www.irna.com/en/news/view/menu-239/0611156605130219.htm

Murdering thousands of christian children is legal in Belgium, having an opinion the jews don't want you to have is a crime.

[Keystone]

I still cannot get my head around the thought of Europeans doing this to each other. The Jews truly have taken over the discourse of thought there.

Simply amazing.

[cerberus]

Historian:confused:

I would not jail guys like this , nor would I describe them as being historians.

[///M power]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: "historian"
aryan imperium is also an historian.:rofl: :rofl:

[Keystone]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: "historian"
aryan imperium is also an historian.:rofl: :rofl:
Historian or no, how is throwing people in prison for having an opinion justified? Is this man somehow "dangerous" to society?

Ridiculous.

[Starr]

By throwing this guy in jail, they just made a few more people interested in holocaust revisionism.

[B-Pep]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: "historian"
aryan imperium is also an historian.:rofl: :rofl:

Is a historian only a person who parrots jewish lies?

I assume this fellow has some type of degree in history, hence he is a historian. But because of his opinion on the circus show of lies known as the "holocaust", that makes all of his college credentials void?

[Hrolf Kraki]

Historian or no, how is throwing people in prison for having an opinion justified? Is this man somehow "dangerous" to society?

Ridiculous.

I agree. If he's not a credible historian then no intelligent person will take him seriously. Let him say whatever he likes.

[eggheadbanga]

By throwing this guy in jail, they just made a few more people interested in holocaust revisionism.

That's my line!

[Keystone]

I agree. If he's not a credible historian then no intelligent person will take him seriously. Let him say whatever he likes.
Ya, but it appears someone does take non-conformity very seriously. Why is it in this day, one thread of history must be so carefully guarded against revision or speculation?

[Starr]

I agree. If he's not a credible historian then no intelligent person will take him seriously. Let him say whatever he likes.

Even if what he says is credible, no one pays much attention to these people anyway, but throw them in prison and people, many of whom are curious, by nature, begin to wonder what exactly he was saying that was so important it had to be silenced. There are many people who might not even think along those lines who are just attracted to "unacceptable" subjects. Both of these kinds of people are also critical thinkers, to some extent. That is why these laws are so stupid.

[Keystone]

Even if what he says is credible, no one pays much attention to these people anyway, but throw them in prison and people, many of whom are curious, by nature, begin to wonder what exactly he was saying that was so important it had to be silenced. There are many people who might not even think along those lines who are just attracted to "unacceptable" subjects. Both of these kinds of people are also critical thinkers, to some extent. That is why these laws are so stupid.
This is where Jews--otherwise intelligent--always overplay their hand. They are so intent on "never again", that they go to great lengths in their host countries to piss off the natives with great chutzpah. Then the cycle they most fear starts all over again.

[eggheadbanga]

This is where Jews--otherwise intelligent--always overplay their hand. They are so intent on "never again", that they go to great lengths in their host countries to piss off the natives with great chutzpah. Then the cycle they most fear starts all over again.

Has it occurred to anyone that with the exception of France and Canada, there are as good as no large Jewish communities in the countries that have made Holocaust denial illegal (Belgium, Germany, Spain)? Unless you subscribe to the tentacular omnipotence CT, I'd say there's something else involved in why the laws exist.

[Keystone]

I'd say there's something else involved in why the laws exist.
Why?

.....

[eggheadbanga]

Why?

.....

you mean, 'what', surely. It seems fairly obvious that German society was basically judenrein when it passed article 130, and all the screw-tightenings over the years. The major Jewish community organisation in Germany is now actually opposed to article 130 prosecutions because they're counterproductive, as they see it. They just create martyrs like (smirk) Zuendel.

But the Jewish community is actually very small there, and anti-Nazism has been hardwired into German society as a norm, so it'll take ages before anyone stops to go, 'hang on, is this actually working'? I talk to German friends of mine here in the UK about Holocaust denial and they look at me like I mentioned mass gang rape, and they know I'm not a denier. It's that far off their radar. Jewish influence didn't do this, Germans did it to themselves. No one told them to do it to themselves either, that I can discern. Antifaschismus and Gegen-Rechtsextremismus are German ideologies.

[Hrolf Kraki]

Even if what he says is credible, no one pays much attention to these people anyway, but throw them in prison and people, many of whom are curious, by nature, begin to wonder what exactly he was saying that was so important it had to be silenced.

Yes. This is what led me to believe that these people might be on to something. For example, creationist morons spout off their 10,000 year old earth nonsense all the time and the scientific community doesn't try to silence them but just laughs because everyone half-way intelligent knows that they're complete imbeciles. However, when someone is silenced then it shows that the silencers may have something to hide.

[///M power]

Historian or no, how is throwing people in prison for having an opinion justified? Is this man somehow "dangerous" to society?

Ridiculous.

why do you ask me?
did I do that?
please dont refer to me with this questions.

[///M power]

Is a historian only a person who parrots jewish lies?

I assume this fellow has some type of degree in history, hence he is a historian. But because of his opinion on the circus show of lies known as the "holocaust", that makes all of his college credentials void?

if he has a major degree in history,then yes he is an historian.
if not,then he isn't.

[Keystone]

you mean, 'what', surely. It seems fairly obvious that German society was basically judenrein when it passed article 130, and all the screw-tightenings over the years. The major Jewish community organisation in Germany is now actually opposed to article 130 prosecutions because they're counterproductive, as they see it. They just create martyrs like (smirk) Zuendel.

But the Jewish community is actually very small there, and anti-Nazism has been hardwired into German society as a norm, so it'll take ages before anyone stops to go, 'hang on, is this actually working'? I talk to German friends of mine here in the UK about Holocaust denial and they look at me like I mentioned mass gang rape, and they know I'm not a denier. It's that far off their radar. Jewish influence didn't do this, Germans did it to themselves. No one told them to do it to themselves either, that I can discern. Antifaschismus and Gegen-Rechtsextremismus are German ideologies.
You wouldn't know this from the vitriol of American Jews towards "deniers". The ADL has poster-boys virtually hanged in effigy. Why aren't European Jews speaking out against this stuff?

[Basil Fawlty]

But the Jewish community is actually very small there, and anti-Nazism has been hardwired into German society as a norm, so it'll take ages before anyone stops to go, 'hang on, is this actually working'? I talk to German friends of mine here in the UK about Holocaust denial and they look at me like I mentioned mass gang rape, and they know I'm not a denier. It's that far off their radar. Jewish influence didn't do this, Germans did it to themselves. No one told them to do it to themselves either, that I can discern. Antifaschismus and Gegen-Rechtsextremismus are German ideologies.False. Max Horkheimer, a Jew and director of the Institute for Social Research (The so-called Frankfurt School), was in charge of desigining and directing the de-Nazification programme after the war. The Americans brought him back in from exile specially for this.

The vanquished have to internalise the victor's version of events, and the Germans, as we know, do everything thoroughly.

You can cite German friends who say that, I can cite German friends who say the opposite, and no, they are not Nazis.

[eggheadbanga]

However, when someone is silenced then it shows that the silencers may have something to hide.

Actually, no. What you should bear in mind with the majority of anti-'Holocaust denial' prosecutions is that geriatric representatives of far-right parties in France and Germany are the main victims. In reality, very few 'revisionist historians' have been prosecuted under these laws. I'd say that in the case of Europe, these laws are a part of an attempt by the mainstream political establishment to hem in the FN, NPD etc. It's easy to trip up Le Pen or Gunther Deckert for denying the Holocaust, less easy to trip them up over their main platforms.

That's why academics are growing increasingly furious with the political class for politicising and publicising an issue that elsewhere in the world is indeed on a par with creationism for its risibility. 693 French historians signed a petition against the latest French law relating to the Armenian genocide and said we'd also like the older ones revoked, because it's not the job of a court to legislate history. Compare the situation in the US or UK where David Irving had become basically a complete joke, until he deliberately (I suspect) got himself arrested in Austria to gain more publicity and do his time as a free-speech martyr.

[Keystone]

Max Horkheimer, a Jew and director of the Institute for Social Research (The so-called Frankfurt School), was in charge of desigining and directing the de-Nazification programme after the war.

The vanquished have to internalise the victor's version of events, and the Germans, as we know, do everything thoroughly.

You can cite German friends who say that, I can cite German friends who say the opposite, and no, they are not Nazis.
And there is the truly hideous Berlin Holocaust Monument. Why would Euro Jewry allow such a poke in the eye, if they weren't serious about keeping the flame of "never again" going?

[eggheadbanga]

Max Horkheimer, a Jew and director of the Institute for Social Research (The so-called Frankfurt School), was in charge of desigining and directing the de-Nazification programme after the war.

Was he in charge of writing the Grundgesetz, is the real issue here, Basil. And he was dead by the time of the 1980s and 1990s laws.

The vanquished have to internalise the victor's version of events, and the Germans, as we know, do everything [I]thoroughly.

You've read article 130, I take it. Then you'll notice it refers in general to Nazism, not simply to 'Holocaust revisionism'. The provision was applied generally to the odd neo-Nazi until Holocaust denial started to 'take off' in the 1970s or thereabouts. Then it was tightened up progressively in the 1980s and 1990s. By this time, the mainstream German political establishment was not happy about the existence of the NPD, Republikaner, Kameradschaften and so forth. They're still not happy about them.

You can cite German friends who say that, I can cite German friends who say the opposite, and no, they are not Nazis.

And I've got other German friends who are like me opposed and unhappy with the laws as they stand, and wish that the issue could be decriminalised and depoliticised. I cited this particular informal slice of German opinion to illustrate that anti-Nazism has indeed been deeply internalised within German society. I would dispute strongly the notion that this is at the behest, however indirect, of teh j00s as many might think.

[eggheadbanga]

And there is the truly hideous Berlin Holocaust Monument. Why would Euro Jewry allow such a poke in the eye, if they weren't serious about keeping the flame of "never again" going?

The Berlin memorial would be an excellent example of German self-flagellation.

[eggheadbanga]

You wouldn't know this from the vitriol of American Jews towards "deniers".

No, you wouldn't, because America is America where shouting is the only way to 'regulate' political speech, and Europe is Europe.

The ADL has poster-boys virtually hanged in effigy.

So do the Republicans for their ideological enemies. So?

Why aren't European Jews speaking out against this stuff?

Duuuuh, I just wrote that the Jewish community organisation in Germany made a public statement about it - that is 'speaking out'. It's not really very easy for the small German-Jewish community to turn round to the ADL and say shut up already. I wish they would.

[Keystone]

The Berlin memorial would be an excellent example of German self-flagellation.
I'm sorry, I just don't believe the Germans are into self-flagellation, and the Jews have nothing whatsoever to do with the Holocaust fence around Jewry.

[Keystone]

No, you wouldn't, because America is America where shouting is the only way to 'regulate' political speech, and Europe is Europe.
Actually we have more Jews here than anywhere else, and they are quite the Zionist reactionaries here. Didn't you know that? We also are heavily laden with monied Jewish lobbies, who fight the "antisemitism" all around the world, seemingly unknown by their European kinsmen.

[Basil Fawlty]

Was he in charge of writing the Grundgesetz, is the real issue here, Basil. And he was dead by the time of the 1980s and 1990s laws.He was in charge of the "brain-washing" programme know as de-Nazification - a thoroughgoing purge and indoctrination of the German people in the western zones. This laid the foundation upon which everything else was added. Your original contention is plain false.
You've read article 130, I take it. Then you'll notice it refers in general to Nazism, not simply to 'Holocaust revisionism'. The provision was applied generally to the odd neo-Nazi until Holocaust denial started to 'take off' in the 1970s or thereabouts. Then it was tightened up progressively in the 1980s and 1990s.So what? Anti-revisionism laws are only possible within a context. That context is the victor-imposed version of the war and of Nazism.By this time, the mainstream German political establishment was not happy about the existence of the NPD, Republikaner, Kameradschaften and so forth. They're still not happy about them.That's tough, its called democracy. Parties like the NPD or FN in France really do draw out the inner lie of liberal democracy.
And I've got other German friends who are like me opposed and unhappy with the laws as they stand, and wish that the issue could be decriminalised and depoliticised. I cited this particular informal slice of German opinion to illustrate that anti-Nazism has indeed been deeply internalised within German society. I would dispute strongly the notion that this is at the behest, however indirect, of teh j00s as many might think.And I am talking about German's who do not believe the victor's version of history and do not believe in the holocaust story. Naturally such people must be discrete and would certainly not make themselves known to someone of your profile.

Germans can be rather more forthcoming about what they really think with sympathetic Irishmen than with British historians who service the victor's history. Remember, you belong to the victor's party in all this. Think about that . . .

[eggheadbanga]

I'm sorry, I just don't believe the Germans are into self-flagellation,

Then you obviously don't know Germany very well. Believe me, they are.

and the Jews have nothing whatsoever to do with the Holocaust fence around Jewry.

What you have to remember about Europe is that these are directly or indirectly perpetrator nations in this matter and also directly or indirectly victim nations. Germany doesn't study the Third Reich to death because teh j00s told them to, they study it because it'stheir history. The entire civic identity of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland is ultimately founded on being a post-NS state.

To an extent the same applies in Belgium, France etc, where they were occupied, had collaborator regimes, and there was a long silence about the issue until the 1980s or so. So in those countries they get a double dose of guilt and neurosis, since they can consider themselves both victims and perpetrators.

You know, it'd help if North Americans sometimes remembered that World War II happened in Europe.

[Basil Fawlty]

What you have to remember about Europe is that these are directly or indirectly perpetrator nations in this matter and also directly or indirectly victim nations. Germany doesn't study the Third Reich to death because teh j00s told them to, they study it because it'stheir history. The entire civic identity of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland is ultimately founded on being a post-NS state.Is founded on being an imposition by the victors more like. This is why prats like Juergen Habermas have spent their whole careers seeking out some kind of 'legitimation' for that state.

[Keystone]

Then you obviously don't know Germany very well. Believe me, they are.



What you have to remember about Europe is that these are directly or indirectly perpetrator nations in this matter and also directly or indirectly victim nations. Germany doesn't study the Third Reich to death because teh j00s told them to, they study it because it'stheir history. The entire civic identity of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland is ultimately founded on being a post-NS state.

To an extent the same applies in Belgium, France etc, where they were occupied, had collaborator regimes, and there was a long silence about the issue until the 1980s or so. So in those countries they get a double dose of guilt and neurosis, since they can consider themselves both victims and perpetrators.

You know, it'd help if North Americans sometimes remembered that World War II happened in Europe.
What does this all have to do with people being jailed for talking about the Jews during WWII?

Bye the bye, I wish WWII would have just involved Europe, not America.

[Burrhus]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: "historian"
aryan imperium is also an historian.:rofl: :rofl:

And MP the weight-lifting body-builder pontificates on who is or is not an historian.

[///M power]

And MP the weight-lifting body-builder pontificates on who is or is not an historian.

:cuss:
I said that if he has a professional background in history and academic achievements in history then he is an historian!
:hitler: :hitler: :hitler: :hitler:

[Burrhus]

Germans can be rather more forthcoming about what they really think with sympathetic Irishmen than with British historians who service the victor's history. Remember, you belong to the victor's party in all this. Think about that . . .

Egg on the head appropriately applied.

[eggheadbanga]

Originally Posted by Milhouse Van Houten
Was he in charge of writing the Grundgesetz, is the real issue here, Basil. And he was dead by the time of the 1980s and 1990s laws.

He was in charge of the "brain-washing" programme know as de-Nazification - a thoroughgoing purge and indoctrination of the German people in the western zones. This laid the foundation upon which everything else was added. Your original contention is plain false.

No, sorry, Basil, your contentions are the false ones. Firstly, the de-Nazification program failed under its own terms. That is the verdict of just about anyone who's examined it. Horkheimer can no more be held accountable for blueprinting postwar German society than can Morgenthau. Marshall and McCloy were infinitely more influential, and infinitely more pragmatic.

Second, the Grundgesetz in the BRD repealed several Allied measures designed to enshrine some of the occupation-era measures relating to war crimes. Control Commission Order No 10 in particular was not passed on in the BRD, because it was seen as violating traditional Reich law, as it involved retroactive legislation. By contrast, the DDR kept Control Commission Order No 10. This meant that nobody could be prosecuted for crimes against humanity or any of the Nuremberg charges under BRD law.

Third, the passing of the Grundgesetz happened to come at a time when the entirety of the nascent BRD establishment, most especially including Adenauer, was agitating for the release of Allied-convicted war criminals. The mood in Germany by the end of the 1940s/early 1950s was enough already with the war-crimes issue. However, there was also a firm resolution on the part of the BRD establishment that never again would they allow an extremist party to take over. Thus the banning of anything that smacked of a neo-Nazi party, as well as the banning of the KPD. This is BRD History 101, Basil.

Fourth, I've yet to see any evidence that Horkheimer or A.N. Other Jew had anything to do with the writing of the Grundgesetz. I'm willing to listen to you if you can demonstrate Allied influence, and willing to go to the library to read up on it further if you have anything to offer that suggests this was the case. But only if you have a concrete fact beyond Horkheimer and other emigres being involved in the early planning stages of various schemes that both went awry or were quietly phased out by the end of the Western Allied occupation.

Quote:
You've read article 130, I take it. Then you'll notice it refers in general to Nazism, not simply to 'Holocaust revisionism'. The provision was applied generally to the odd neo-Nazi until Holocaust denial started to 'take off' in the 1970s or thereabouts. Then it was tightened up progressively in the 1980s and 1990s.

So what? Anti-revisionism laws are only possible within a context. That context is the victor-imposed version of the war and of Nazism.

No, Basil, the context that is most important here are the political circumstances within Germany or whichever country one is examining at the time that a law was passed or tightened up.

Quote:
By this time, the mainstream German political establishment was not happy about the existence of the NPD, Republikaner, Kameradschaften and so forth. They're still not happy about them.

That's tough, its called democracy. Parties like the NPD or FN in France really do draw out the inner lie of liberal democracy.

If you'd get off your soapbox for a minute and actually try to comprehend what I am arguing, it might help.

The 'inner lie' is the irony that liberal democracy is its own worst enemy when confronted by a party that might destroy democracy in the event of seizing power. That is the lesson of Weimar that has been thoroughly internalised by the BRD establishment, rightly or wrongly. This is why the NPD has been given such stick, rightly or wrongly, and why 'Rechtsextremismus' is such a huge concern in Germany. I'm making no judgement as to whether this perception on the part of the BRD establishment is correct, simply trying to point out that such a perception exists.

And also, to explain that in reading up on the German political science literature on Rechtsextremismus, that revisionism is seen as an inextricable part of the political milieu. You are more likely to be convicted under article 130 if you happen to be a NPD or similar splinter party functionary who mouths off about the Holocaust, than if you publish an article in VffG. The repression under article 130 falls disproportionately on political activists, not 'historians' or 'scientists'. Much the same pattern can be seen in France, where for every time that Faurisson is hauled before a court, a FN functionary is had up on the same charge.

My conclusion is therefore that anti-HD laws are political measures. That does not make them right, and I have stated my views on them often enough, but it does make them harder to get rid of. That is because rightly or wrongly, these issues are seen as bound up with the issue of keeping far-right parties at bay.

Quote:
And I've got other German friends who are like me opposed and unhappy with the laws as they stand, and wish that the issue could be decriminalised and depoliticised. I cited this particular informal slice of German opinion to illustrate that anti-Nazism has indeed been deeply internalised within German society. I would dispute strongly the notion that this is at the behest, however indirect, of teh j00s as many might think.

And I am talking about German's who do not believe the victor's version of history and do not believe in the holocaust story. Naturally such people must be discrete and would certainly not make themselves known to someone of your profile.

Germans can be rather more forthcoming about what they really think with sympathetic Irishmen than with British historians who service the victor's history. Remember, you belong to the victor's party in all this. Think about that . . .

Basil, you're back on your soapbox again. It is a fact, no, that essentially the entire German establishment, media, academia and related institutions espouses a convinced anti-Nazi line. This line is espoused not simply by the post-68 left, as much as some on the right might try and posture that this is the case, but quite generally. Whether or not the entirety of German society takes an anti-Nazi line is quite irrelevant to the point that it is German society that does so.

[eggheadbanga]

What does this all have to do with people being jailed for talking about the Jews during WWII?

Um, simple. All the events happened in Europe, and most societies in Europe came out of the war feeling they'd been victimised in some fashion by Nazism. Not just the Jews, but Frenchmen, Belgians, Italians, and yes, even Germans and Austrians. Austria constructed her entire postwar identity based on the idea that she was the 'first victim' of Nazism. But, at the same time, most societies in Europe eventually had to confront the fact that they had to some, maybe only limited, extent helped Nazism happened, as collaborators (e.g. Vichy France). So there are powerful domestic political factors involved. A fair bit of postwar French politics has revolved indirectly around the struggle between Vichyites and the resistance to justify or contest what happened in the war.

[eggheadbanga]

Is founded on being an imposition by the victors more like.This is why prats like Juergen Habermas have spent their whole careers seeking out some kind of 'legitimation' for that state.

Yaaaawn. I really don't think this in any way explains Adenauer or the history of the BRD from the 1950s onwards.

[Jimbo Gomez]

This law is an outrage. he doesn't harm or hurt anyone with his views. Noone gets beaten up, robbed, mugged, raped, stabbed,... whatever because of it. These thought crimes pave the way for tiranny.

[Keystone]

Um, simple. All the events happened in Europe, and most societies in Europe came out of the war feeling they'd been victimised in some fashion by Nazism. Not just the Jews, but Frenchmen, Belgians, Italians, and yes, even Germans and Austrians. Austria constructed her entire postwar identity based on the idea that she was the 'first victim' of Nazism. But, at the same time, most societies in Europe eventually had to confront the fact that they had to some, maybe only limited, extent helped Nazism happened, as collaborators (e.g. Vichy France). So there are powerful domestic political factors involved. A fair bit of postwar French politics has revolved indirectly around the struggle between Vichyites and the resistance to justify or contest what happened in the war.
That still doesn't justify jailing someone who, for whatever purpose, denies the historical record as written. Maybe that's purely an American sentiment. I still don't believe it's proper.

[Jimbo Gomez]

That still doesn't justify jailing someone who, for whatever purpose, denies the historical record as written. Maybe that's purely an American sentiment. I still don't believe it's proper.


It isn't. I myself think that the Germans did indeed butcher a shitload of jews in that war, but if someone else disagrees with me: let him say it out loud without locking him up. What is it with people that they're so weak that they'll outlaw whatever speach offends them? Crybabies don't make history, real men do.

[eggheadbanga]

That still doesn't justify jailing someone who, for whatever purpose, denies the historical record as written. Maybe that's purely an American sentiment. I still don't believe it's proper.

Keystone, let me clarify. I'm against these laws. I'm simply commenting trying to explain why they exist. I'm also trying to explain why the reasons for these laws are rooted in European circumstances and not the product of 'pressure' from Israel, the US or the Jews.

Bear in mind also that Belgium was the country that put Ariel Sharon on trial for war crimes. Yet they can turn around and prosecute Verbeke like this as well. One is arguably justified, the other completely not. But the same society brought both cases.

[eggheadbanga]

It isn't. I myself think that the Germans did indeed butcher a shitload of jews in that war, but if someone else disagrees with me: let him say it out loud without locking him up. What is it with people that they're so weak that they'll outlaw whatever speach offends them? Crybabies don't make history, real men do.

Agreed.

I do however think we need to keep laws on the books to lock up any Muslim preacher fanatic who incites terrorism and violence. I have no problem with restricting that 'free speech'.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Agreed.

I do however think we need to keep laws on the books to lock up any Muslim preacher fanatic who incites terrorism and violence. I have no problem with restricting that 'free speech'.


That scum doesn't belong in Europe so as long as they're here they need to keep their filthy mouths shut. Real Europeans should be able to say anything they damn well please, with the sole exception of slander, deathtreats or direct and realistic appeals for criminal behaviour.

[Keystone]

Keystone, let me clarify. I'm against these laws. I'm simply commenting trying to explain why they exist. I'm also trying to explain why the reasons for these laws are rooted in European circumstances and not the product of 'pressure' from Israel, the US or the Jews.
If Jews aren't involved in these laws, I'm a lemur. C'mon now.

[eggheadbanga]

If Jews aren't involved in these laws, I'm a lemur. C'mon now.

I've yet to see any proof of organised Jewish influence on the passing of these laws over the past couple of decades in the respective countries. Germany didn't HAVE any Jewish community of any size when her laws were passed. Jews are basically a symbolic figment of the imagination in Germany, these abstract people that 'the Nazis' caused to vanish. The whole issue there is over Nazism, and Nazism=Holocaust in symbolic terms. Thus the issue is like a canary in the mine.

France's Jewish community was split over the loi Gayssot in 1990, and you sure as hell need more than the handful of Jewish deputies in the French Parliament to pass it. France is hardly a mega-friend of Israel anyhow, and France especially, above all else, HATES America with a passion. The absolute last thing that French politicians would do is pass a law simply to please the ADL. Again, the issue is not purely to do with the Jews, but to do with shutting Le Pen and his followers up.

Belgium, well, Mr Charlie Burns could tell you more but again I suspect that fear of Vlaams Blok played a role in some of this too. Verbeke was once Vlaams Blok, incidentally.

[eggheadbanga]

That scum doesn't belong in Europe so as long as they're here they need to keep their filthy mouths shut. Real Europeans should be able to say anything they damn well please, with the sole exception of slander, deathtreats or direct and realistic appeals for criminal behaviour.

Phrased slightly more diplomatically, I'd say yes. :D

[Jimbo Gomez]

With the exception of Verbeke, they never really had negationists. The antiracism laws are aimed at them, but the negationism law just came after they saw those laws being passed elsewhere. Monkey see, monkey do.

[calvin]

me my friend itamar and his brother have always wanted to go to a c18 or the like protest, maybe teach them a little קרב מגע

Yeah right! You guys haven’t won a fight against Aryans since the revolt of the Maccabes, bring it on! Why don’t you organize a counter strike against the unarmed children of c18 with precision bombs and guided missiles, that’s the kind of fighting you guys understand best.

For your information BTW Combat 18 was the creation of the British secret services, invented, to use their own puerile phrase, to “poison the water that the fishes swim in”.

[koch curve]

Yeah right! You guys haven’t won a fight against Aryans since the revolt of the Maccabes, bring it on! Why don’t you organize a counter strike against the unarmed children of c18 with precision bombs and guided missiles, that’s the kind of fighting you guys understand best.

For your information BTW Combat 18 was the creation of the British secret services, invented, to use their own puerile phrase, to “poison the water that the fishes swim in”.

both itamar and his brother were in the idf for three years, his brother is a brown belt in krav maga, and im 6'4'' and hes been teaching me for almost a year


i think wed be fine :bbbat:

[Vindex]

They should of burned a pack of ballpoint pens too.

[Captain Marinesko]

An Allegorical Play in One Act:

SCENE: Prague Streets, an ethnically mixed stag group loudly walks down the street.

Crooked-tooth Drunk English Bastard #1: What should we do next lads?

Crooked-tooth Drunk English Bastard #2: I know, LET'S GO TO A WHOREHOUSE!!!

The whole group: YEAH!!!

SUDDENLY! Ronnie the NS superhero appears in front of them....

Ronnie: STOP MY ARYAN BROTHERS!! I hold in my hand IRREFUTABLE PROOF THAT THE HOLOCAUST DIDN'T HAPPEN! LOOK!

They see a copy of a document that reads: "He Mr. Churchill, let's fabricate something called the Holocaust so that the Jews can get a lot of money. Signed, Josef Stalin

Crooked-tooth English Bastard #1(regains composure): Oh my GOD!!! What have I been doing? Those prostitutes are WHITE, they are OUR race!!

Crooked-tooth English Bastard #2: Yeah, I just remember I heard that many of them are TRAFFICKED, and even though they may have some rights here, that's only because they were bought by pimps in this country- before that they were raped and beaten somewhere in the Balkans usually!

Crooked-tooth English Bastard #3: That's HORRIBLE!! We are one European race, but we are mistreating each other all the time! And it's ALL BECAUSE WE BELIEVED IN THE HOLOCAUST!!!

Crooked-tooth English Bastard #4: Right, well no more time for THAT!! Because now we know it's a hoax! NOW we can have a sense of ethnic pride and racial pride!! And I just realized Nigel here is actually BLACK!!!

The group: YOU'RE NOT BRITISH NOR EUROPEAN, NIGEL!!!

Nigel: Ha! You're right guys, I'm going to go home to Jamaica- but it's ok because now I'm safe and secure knowing that THE HOLOCAUST DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!

THE WHOLE GROUP: THANKS RONNIE, THE NS SUPERHERO!!!

EPILOGUE

Ten days later all women trafficking stopped throughout Europe, and white families started having more kids while non-European immigrants left for their home nations to spread the gospel about the Holocaust never happening.



NOTE: To the British readers, don't take it personally, I am just being as you say, ironic!

[SlagMaster]

The charges,if any, should have been Burning Trash without a permit.

[barbarroja]

Allegory?
You don´t understand, the matter here is NOT the Holocaust, BUT the FREEDOM of speech. To jail somebody for his opinions.

Now, if people can talk free about the real problems, whitout a pseudo-guilty behavior, perhaps next matter of the freedom of speech will be the European´s future, the white sex slaves, and the miscegenation.

[Commander]

Here in the west they make you use a burn barrel, other than that I don't know what the fuss is about, people burn refuse all the time.

[Daniel Shays]

I actually favor the stance taken by the Soviet Bloc - that being a focus on the Communists killed by Nazis w/ minimal reference to the Jewish claims. Ehrenburg wrote a Black Book of Slavic 'crimes' against Jews during the Nazi occupation. Sensibly, the USSR prohibited it from being published.

East Germany also refused to compensate capitalists that lost property to the Nazis, Jewish or not. They didn't give Israel a cent either, unlike the West. Much better for the people to mourn the loss of a man like Thaelmann than some random Jewish girl. Jews only really got attention in the GDR with 'Jakob der Luegner'.

[Captain Marinesko]

Allegory?
You don´t understand, the matter here is NOT the Holocaust, BUT the FREEDOM of speech. To jail somebody for his opinions.

Now, if people can talk free about the real problems, whitout a pseudo-guilty behavior, perhaps next matter of the speech will be the European future´s, the white sex slaves, and the miscegenation.


No it won't, because the Holocaust has nothing to do with any of those real problems, and the Holocaust doesn't cause "white guilt". Anyone who feels guilty about the Holocaust because they are white, or even if they are German, is just plain stupid.

[Aryan Imperium]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: "historian"
aryan imperium is also an historian.:rofl: :rofl:

Yesand you`re a `student`. Or have you changed your cover this week?

[Aryan Imperium]

By throwing this guy in jail, they just made a few more people interested in holocaust revisionism.

And stirred up more wrath against the jews-itz coming!

[Aryan Imperium]

I agree. If he's not a credible historian then no intelligent person will take him seriously. Let him say whatever he likes.

So in other words if he does not wear a badge, saying `kosher approved` don`t listen to him?:confused:
Even worse, imprison him?

[Aryan Imperium]

Has it occurred to anyone that with the exception of France and Canada, there are as good as no large Jewish communities in the countries that have made Holocaust denial illegal (Belgium, Germany, Spain)? Unless you subscribe to the tentacular omnipotence CT, I'd say there's something else involved in why the laws exist.

How many bad apples does it take to turn a healthy barrel rotten?

[Captain Marinesko]

What I don't understand is how burning a copy of the DoAF could be equated with Holocaust denial. Hell, burning any book doesn't really say much at all- other than you just don't like the book.

[MrAngry]

Indeed and this shittyness is not confined to just Germany but the entire western part of Europe.
It is high time that Aryan man grew some balls and said a great big fuck you to the jews!



What! They dont have balls!? I had suspected but thanks for the confirmation! :rofl:

[Aryan Imperium]

What! They dont have balls!? I had suspected but thanks for the confirmation! :rofl:

The ones who go to church on Sundays are the ones who are testicular challenged!
By contrast mine are big and hairy.

[Burrhus]

Originally Posted by C. Montgomery Burns
That scum doesn't belong in Europe so as long as they're here they need to keep their filthy mouths shut. Real Europeans should be able to say anything they damn well please, with the sole exception of slander, deathtreats or direct and realistic appeals for criminal behaviour.

Phrased slightly more diplomatically, I'd say yes. :D

Lest you follow Nick Griffin into the dock?

Q.E.D.

[Arrow Cross]

What! They dont have balls!? I had suspected but thanks for the confirmation! :rofl:
I take it from your question that you're non-White. Care to tell us your heritage already? :)

[Burrhus]

The whole issue there is over Nazism, and
Nazism=Holocaust in symbolic terms.

Herein lies the heart of the matter. MVH pops his head above the rim of the trench and puts his forehead at risk of penetration.

If the National Socialists (NS) were evil, then the holocaust story is true (or at least plausible). If the holocaust story is true, then the NS were demonstrably evil. Two conditional statements that fairly describe the historical debate. Conditional!

The problem is that holocaust believers (HB) do not start with conditional "if" statements, they start with assumptive "given" statements: Given that the NS were evil and/or given that the holocaust story is true. They are incapable of suspending for the sake of argument their belief in the truth of those two assumptions and, at least temporarily, re-stating them as conditional "if" statements. To do so would exhibit doubt on their part and make them holocaust questioners or even, god forbid, potential revisionists.

The difficulty for any HB historian lies in his inabilty to transform the given to the if for purposes of looking honestly at the historical facts. That would present him with two dilemmas, one internal and one external.

Internally, he would find himself with such a powerfully paradigmatic belief in the "given-ness" of the 'truths' that any attempt to suppress them would leave him in a state of severe moral discomfort. Thinking so far outside of the moral and epistemological paradigm of his culture is not an activity that he is accustomed to and is in fact something that he has been strongly conditioned against doing. Such behavior carries with it the dreadful threat of ostracism. So strong is the conditioning that even covertly behaving in such a manner produces discomfort.

Externally, were he to question the paradigmatic truth of the "givens" overtly, he would certainly suffer professionally in academia and, in all likelihood, find himself unemployed after having sacrificed many years of his life in attaining his financially beneficial status of accreditation. It is very unlikely that he would do this in that tenure is only received after many years of convincing one's colleagues that one will not step outside of their mutually agreed upon paradigm. They are a band of brothers who battle as a unit and demand loyalty to the basic paradigm as a condition for inclusion in the first place.

At the very least, overt behavior in violation of the academic paradigm would result in the situation that Prof. Kevin Macdonald now finds himself in where he is under attack from jews outside of his university for his writings which do not even question the holocaust but merely the jews own narrative of their general history. He has written recently that he dreads going to his office due to the hostility of his fellow academics and even dreads going to teach his classes. It remains to be seen if this social pressure will force him from his position but it certainly provides a cautionary tale for any other academic who would dare to think outside of the acceptable paradigm.

Historians finding themselves facing the dilemmas described above can hardly be expected to honestly and with integrity suspend their belief in the "given-ness" of the 'truths' lying at the heart of the holocaust question. How can they investigate the historical record for signs of inherent evil in the NS without their perception being directed by the strongly conditioned paradigmatic belief that it must be there to be found? Can one really expect them to put out of their thoughts the "given-ness" of the 'truth' of the holocaust story when investigating that question given the internal moral dilemma that that would entail?

"Nazism=Holocaust in symbolic terms" indeed. MVH might be well advised to duck.

[Burrhus]

And stirred up more wrath against the jews-itz coming!

Many here do not speak Linderese, AI. You may want to provide a translation for the boldened phrase.

[calvin]

both itamar and his brother were in the idf for three years, his brother is a brown belt in krav maga, and im 6'4'' and hes been teaching me for almost a year

Blah, blah! My dad’s bigger than your dad! Great grandpa Itamar didn’t put up much of a fight against the Wehrmacht did he?

[Yon]

I'm curious to see what sorts of things are on the Do Not Ignite List in Germany. Maybe a new Malleus Maleficarum should be written for dealing these 21st century heretics. Our situation is both hopeless and pathetic.:mad:

[Yon]

edit for my poor speeling.

[OVERWATCH]

Say, if in Germany, burning a copy of Otto Frank's masterwork Diary of Anne Frank is "disturbing the peace of the dead" and a criminal offence, then what would happen if you similarly immolated a copy of Heinz Guderian's Panzer Leader? Would that be "disturbing the peace of the dead" as well?

[PAXRAHOWA]

Death to the Anne Frank 'lie industry'!

[Kodos]

Historian or no, how is throwing people in prison for having an opinion justified? Is this man somehow "dangerous" to society?

Ridiculous.

They throw people in jail for lots of un pc opinions (if you are too public about it) in Europe. Bridgette Bardot got pinched for saying the muslim immigrants to France were a bunch of savage jihadis...

Now after the riots they probably don't have enough jail cells.

[Hlinkova Garda]

both itamar and his brother were in the idf for three years, his brother is a brown belt in krav maga, and im 6'4'' and hes been teaching me for almost a year


i think wed be fine :bbbat:

Do you people even KNOW how to tell the truth or what the truth is

[Hlinkova Garda]

No it won't, because the Holocaust has nothing to do with any of those real problems, and the Holocaust doesn't cause "white guilt". Anyone who feels guilty about the Holocaust because they are white, or even if they are German, is just plain stupid.

It would be stupid IF the holocaust DID happen which it did not so feeling guilty is an even more stupid..............for some reason that sounded stupid

:slap:

[Starr]

No it won't, because the Holocaust has nothing to do with any of those real problems, and the Holocaust doesn't cause "white guilt". Anyone who feels guilty about the Holocaust because they are white, or even if they are German, is just plain stupid.


People(and I am talking about white nationalists here) spend way too much time focusing on trying to prove that it is "a lie.", which is pretty pointless. But as for it causing guilt, I do believe it does and this is one major thing(among a few others)that has helped bring us to where we are today. We are constantly beaten with the idea that any kind of white unity or pride and a rejection of ideas about "equality" and objections to immigration, the need for nationalism(and the list could go on and on)leads to these things. You see parallels attempting to be drawn between these things and the holocaust all of the time.
You see similar, but somewhat less of this same thing, here with reminders about lychings and the KKK,etc. also.
The white guilt factor and the so called connections between all of these things have been fed to people for such a long time now that it has become a very powerful and necessary tool that is used to shame people away from caring about their own interests enough where they are willing to stand up in strong unified objections to such things as the non-stop brown flood. And it works wonders.
Since, as I said earlier spending all of this time in argument trying to prove or disprove that it did or did not happen in the way that is said is pretty pointless, it is probably time to move on however. We don't need all of that. It is also baggage and we don't need it. and it has and will continue to get us nowhere. We just need more than anything to let people know that there is nothing bad or evil, but rather that it is perfectly natural to care about the interests of their race and that all the races do and are allowed to without all of this bullshit guilt. And that this does not mean that we approve of killing or harming anyone unnecessarily. With the way things are headed, also people are going to be forced(and it is already starting to happen) to change their pussified views.

[Burrhus]

Bridgette Bardot got pinched for saying the muslim immigrants to France were a bunch of savage jihadis... .

I wouldn't mind pinching Brigitte Bardot.

[Captain Marinesko]

People(and I am talking about white nationalists here) spend way too much time focusing on trying to prove that it is "a lie.", which is pretty pointless. .

Yes but let's be honest about why most WNs do it- they love Hitler, they want Hitler to be the good guy, and that's it. They don't even care about the equal or higher number of Aryans that died within the "Holocaust" alone.

[WFHermans]

The truth of the holocaust/holohoax has nothing to do with the idiocy of the punishment of those that dared to burn the holy book of the holocaust religion.

[cerberus]

You mean M.K. by A.H. ?:rofl:

[Felix the Cat]

Never read the AF diary. Is it worth the time?

[koch curve]

interesting fact : one of my cats is named after miep gies

[Captain Marinesko]

I think any government should pay you if you burn a copy of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.


PS- Oh yes WNs, Rand was a Jew.

[Vindex]

The holocaust shows Hitler was a good guy.

[Captain Marinesko]

The holocaust shows Hitler was a good guy.


Well one thing I don't understand from a WN or NS perspective is- WHY deny the Holocaust if you're against Jews? After all, Hitler killed so many more Europeans, and if he killed at least 6 million Jews, at LEAST they could be happy about that.

Of course WN isn't exactly known for it's consistancy.

[Felix the Cat]

It insults the intelligence of Hitler to claim that - with Allied armies bearing down on Germany, and German cities being flattened by bombs - he would waste precious time and resources on projects to kill Jews

(However, his more emotional and irrational subordinates may well have carried out such operations without his knowledge)

[Vindex]

While I'am not WN I don't deny the holocaust and don't consider it be bad. Since the jews rejoice in the mass slaughter of the goyium enemies as they do. Then why not be glad for the mass slaughter of the jews.

Well one thing I don't understand from a WN or NS perspective is- WHY deny the Holocaust if you're against Jews? After all, Hitler killed so many more Europeans, and if he killed at least 6 million Jews, at LEAST they could be happy about that.

Of course WN isn't exactly known for it's consistancy.

[Arrow Cross]

Prosecutors in Berlin on Friday charged seven suspected neo-Nazis with incitement and disturbing the peace of the dead for burning a copy of Anne Frank's diary and a US flag during a celebration earlier this year.
So now German prosecutors officially believe in the afterlife? Isn't that another step toward the Schutz-Staffel? :nono:
Oh, and if we're talking about disturbing spirits, how about burning Swastika, or Imperial flags? Ah, but Nazis didn't have souls...

[WFHermans]

Well one thing I don't understand from a WN or NS perspective is- WHY deny the Holocaust if you're against Jews? After all, Hitler killed so many more Europeans, and if he killed at least 6 million Jews, at LEAST they could be happy about that.

Of course WN isn't exactly known for it's consistancy.
Simply love of truth. It's a concept you don't understand, but we goyim base our beliefs on what we think is true, not on what is good for our tribe.

[Dr. Gutberlet]

I agree, the Anne Frank Diaries are despicable.


They're despicable as well as fictional.

[Burrhus]

I think any government should pay you if you burn a copy of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.


PS- Oh yes WNs, Rand was a Jew.

Mark your calenders, Volken, JP and I agree on something. And not because Anal Rand was a jew. Radical individualism is a deadly social virus.

[delete]

Simply love of truth. It's a concept you don't understand, but we goyim base our beliefs on what we think is true, not on what is good for our tribe.

We ultimatly believe lies are dangoerous for survival, as it makes the people loose focus from what is important.

These people burn the books in order to get arrested. It is an efficient way to get attention to their cause, and shows unfair government prosecution.

[barbarroja]

Anne Frank afterlife=pseudo mistic or Religion,
so Germany believe in Holocaust as a Religious Dogma which must be follow or you go to the jail of the new Inquisition.

Then they dare to say "freedom of speech" and laugh about muslims cartoons... double standards as usual

[Aryan Imperium]

It insults the intelligence of Hitler to claim that - with Allied armies bearing down on Germany, and German cities being flattened by bombs - he would waste precious time and resources on projects to kill Jews

(However, his more emotional and irrational subordinates may well have carried out such operations without his knowledge)

You are correct. Germany needed all the manpower it could muster and that included jews. If they were going to exterminate any as part of a planned programme that woud have happened before 1945.

[Aryan Imperium]

While I'am not WN I don't deny the holocaust and don't consider it be bad. Since the jews rejoice in the mass slaughter of the goyium enemies as they do. Then why not be glad for the mass slaughter of the jews.

I share your sentiment but I don`t think that it happened.
But for the sake of breaking the power of international jewry we must destroy break the myth of the holohaux as it has an iron grip on the collective psyche of our people.
If we can demonstrate it to be the pure myth that it is we can destroy their power over us and then the people will visit their wrath upon them in vengeance.
The holohaux is the bogeyman of National Socialism or any kind of white nationalism.
So keep denying the holohaux comrade!

[Captain Marinesko]

Simply love of truth. It's a concept you don't understand, but we goyim base our beliefs on what we think is true, not on what is good for our tribe.


Hmmm..then what's the deal with that "Vergasungkeller" document? And WHERE did somewhere around 6 million Jews and an equal or more likely LARGER number of European civilians GO anyway? You don't believe in the Holocaust, fine- but you better have an answer for 7 million Soviet civilians killed.

[Captain Marinesko]

I share your sentiment but I don`t think that it happened.
But for the sake of breaking the power of international jewry we must destroy break the myth of the holohaux as it has an iron grip on the collective psyche of our people.
If we can demonstrate it to be the pure myth that it is we can destroy their power over us and then the people will visit their wrath upon them in vengeance.
The holohaux is the bogeyman of National Socialism or any kind of white nationalism.
So keep denying the holohaux comrade!

National Socialism killed far more Europeans than Jews. If you BELIEVED in the Holocaust, at least he took out SOME Jews.

The Holocaust has ABSOLUTELY no effect on modern society. National Socialism isn't successful because the only reason it ever had success in the first place was due to massive financial backing- something it was able to obtain because IT WAS NEEDED by the Bourgeoisie of the time. Without backing, NS and similar ideologies have been degenerating over time because they are ideologically bankrupt and followers(myself once included) aren't aware of this historical heritage.

The philosophy of Fascism is inherently flawed, and it has been degenerating over time because of internal contradictions as well as the lack of real success. Political success forces people to think practically- but since it was relegated to the margins of history, Fascists of every stripe have become dreamers out of touch with material reality. Since the ruling class has no need for them, and in fact must suppress and crush them, there is simply no way for National Socialism or Fascism to regain power in any meaningful way.

[Dr. Gutberlet]

Hmmm..then what's the deal with that "Vergasungkeller" document? And WHERE did somewhere around 6 million Jews and an equal or more likely LARGER number of European civilians GO anyway? You don't believe in the Holocaust, fine- but you better have an answer for 7 million Soviet civilians killed.

Why would an answer be needed for a billion soviet civilian deaths?:viking:

[Captain Marinesko]

Why would an answer be needed for a billion soviet civilian deaths?:viking:


So you support the aggressive slaughter of White Europeans. Fine, we know which side you are on.

[Aryan Imperium]

National Socialism killed far more Europeans than Jews. If you BELIEVED in the Holocaust, at least he took out SOME Jews.

The Holocaust has ABSOLUTELY no effect on modern society. National Socialism isn't successful because the only reason it ever had success in the first place was due to massive financial backing- something it was able to obtain because IT WAS NEEDED by the Bourgeoisie of the time. Without backing, NS and similar ideologies have been degenerating over time because they are ideologically bankrupt and followers(myself once included) aren't aware of this historical heritage.

The philosophy of Fascism is inherently flawed, and it has been degenerating over time because of internal contradictions as well as the lack of real success. Political success forces people to think practically- but since it was relegated to the margins of history, Fascists of every stripe have become dreamers out of touch with material reality. Since the ruling class has no need for them, and in fact must suppress and crush them, there is simply no way for National Socialism or Fascism to regain power in any meaningful way.


When will you begin to understand that it is the jew who acted as the catalyst for the eruption of WWII and it is the jew and his new secular religion of holohaux `observance` that prevents us as Aryans from overturning the chaos of multiracial societies in Europe? This is why we must break the grip that he has upon us and destroy the myth once and for all.

[Aryan Imperium]

Why would an answer be needed for a billion soviet civilian deaths?:viking:

This is not a view that I share but is counterproductive to what we are trying to achieve.

[Furcht]

National Socialism killed far more Europeans than Jews. If you BELIEVED in the Holocaust, at least he took out SOME Jews.

Whose plate is cleaner Communism or NSism ?


The Holocaust has ABSOLUTELY no effect on modern society.

Agree.

National Socialism isn't successful because the only reason it ever had success in the first place was due to massive financial backing- something it was able to obtain because IT WAS NEEDED by the Bourgeoisie of the time.

That is a primary reason but certainly not the only reason.


Without backing, NS and similar ideologies have been degenerating over time because they are ideologically bankrupt and followers(myself once included) aren't aware of this historical heritage.

Without backing of any sort of Ideology it will degenerate said overtime. I think compared to other movements and Ideology NSism has been forced underground since ww2, and people on the underground are well probably not the most outstanding individuals. There is also a void in any strong NS movement anywhere in the world to take lead post ww2, whereas it took Capitalism and Communism together to destroy NSism and most Fascism at the time.


The philosophy of Fascism is inherently flawed, and it has been degenerating over time because of internal contradictions as well as the lack of real success.

Agree.



Political success forces people to think practically- but since it was relegated to the margins of history, Fascists of every stripe have become dreamers out of touch with material reality.

Fascists, Commies, NSers, Socialists dont just limit it to one group.



Since the ruling class has no need for them, and in fact must suppress and crush them, there is simply no way for National Socialism or Fascism to regain power in any meaningful way.


Should read; Any threat to the global capitalist regime will be dealt with as a threat. But I am somewhat alarmed here. It sounds like you may be a defeatist (regardless of your ideology) here, and if that is the case why bother with fringe politics/ racial matters at all?

[Furcht]

When will you begin to understand that it is the jew who acted as the catalyst for the eruption of WWII and it is the jew and his new secular religion of holohaux `observance` that prevents us as Aryans from overturning the chaos of multiracial societies in Europe? This is why we must break the grip that he has upon us and destroy the myth once and for all.

ww1 seems to have started due to ignorant european nationalism while ww2 was evoked and heavily influenced by jewish peoples, but I believe it was mostly gentile on gentile anguish. Now I think it's simply a nutjob idea that the "holohaux" religion is what is single-handedly preventing us from taking back europe, and other greater white lands. Holocaust really has no bearing on modern life nor will it have much effect in the future, let's try to stick to real-politics and issues that deal with reality and modern white people.

[Daniel Shays]

Why would an answer be needed for a billion soviet civilian deaths?:viking:Germany had the largest Communist party in Europe for decades before Hitler; had they achieved power I assume Germany should have been wiped out? The GDR should have been ethnically cleansed of Germans for having a Socialist government, right?

[Aryan Imperium]

ww1 seems to have started due to ignorant european nationalism while ww2 was evoked and heavily influenced by jewish peoples, but I believe it was mostly gentile on gentile anguish. Now I think it's simply a nutjob idea that the "holohaux" religion is what is single-handedly preventing us from taking back europe, and other greater white lands. Holocaust really has no bearing on modern life nor will it have much effect in the future, let's try to stick to real-politics and issues that deal with reality and modern white people.

The `real issue` that is affecting all Aryans everywhere is the multiracial society.
There is nothing that you can do to combat multiracialism without having the spectre of the holohaux being thrown back at you-`oy vey, never again`, etc.
Unless we smash the myth we will not be able to fight against the genocide of our race and take back our lands.
Therefore holocaust denial must become a priority for us. Our enemies realise this more than we do and are stepping up their efforts to silence us.

[Dr. Gutberlet]

So you support the aggressive slaughter of White Europeans. Fine, we know which side you are on.

What are a bunch of russian peasants to me?:nopity:

[Starr]

When will you begin to understand that it is the jew who acted as the catalyst for the eruption of WWII and it is the jew and his new secular religion of holohaux `observance` that prevents us as Aryans from overturning the chaos of multiracial societies in Europe? This is why we must break the grip that he has upon us and destroy the myth once and for all.


Is it really ever even going to happen? And the holocaust is the one main and major thing that is keeping the white guilt alive, but there are others that get thrown at us, also, like slavery and black "oppression." Even opposition to hispanics will bring out the cries of grievances they have against whitey(go back to Europe,etc) There is an endless supply of white guilt stories that get trotted out. White guilt as a whole is what needs to end. The one major way this is going to happen is going to lie in what is going on all around us and the increasingly tightening laws that force everyone to keep quiet about it.
And do many people truly feel white guilt or is it more that they are just afraid of getting stuck with labels that society says are bad. Do you notice how often people will try to soften their views by saying something like "I am not a racist, but........?

[Aryan Imperium]

Is it really ever even going to happen? And the holocaust is the one main and major thing that is keeping the white guilt alive, but there are others that get thrown at us, also, like slavery and black "oppression." Even opposition to hispanics will bring out the cries of grievances they have against whitey(go back to Europe,etc) There is an endless supply of white guilt stories that get trotted out. White guilt as a whole is what needs to end. The one major way this is going to happen is going to lie in what is going on all around us and the increasingly tightening laws that force everyone to keep quiet about it.
And do many people truly feel white guilt as much as they are just afraid to be stuck with certain labels that society says are bad?

Yes slavery is another cudgel used to attack us and Blair`s apology this week is further evidence of the guilt trip that whites are experiencing.
But it is not slavery that stands in the way of Aryans retaking their lands but the holohaux. It is the obstacle to our uprising.

[Captain Marinesko]

Is it too much of a problem for someone to demonstrate in detail exactly HOW the Holocaust has anything to do with our problems today? Our society's nature is dictated in the boardrooms of major corporations, congressional offices, and WTO meetings and conferences. How many times do you think the word Holocaust comes up in such a conversation?

The Holocaust is only significant to those people who believe National Socialism is the only answer the the problem, and therefore they need to legitimize it first.

[Aryan Imperium]

Is it too much of a problem for someone to demonstrate in detail exactly HOW the Holocaust has anything to do with our problems today? Our society's nature is dictated in the boardrooms of major corporations, congressional offices, and WTO meetings and conferences. How many times do you think the word Holocaust comes up in such a conversation?

The Holocaust is only significant to those people who believe National Socialism is the only answer the the problem, and therefore they need to legitimize it first.

I made no reference to `National Socialism`.
The point that I am making is that if you wish to remove aliens from your lands you must break the grip of the jew. As soon as any reference is made to reversing immigration the spectre of the holohaux is raised by those who are quite content to allow the genocide of the Aryan race to continue.

[Captain Marinesko]

I made no reference to `National Socialism`.
The point that I am making is that if you wish to remove aliens from your lands you must break the grip of the jew. As soon as any reference is made to reversing immigration the spectre of the holohaux is raised by those who are quite content to allow the genocide of the Aryan race to continue.


How is the Holocaust raised in terms of immigration. It's not like the Nazis were exterminating immigrants, they were going into other countries and taking people out there.

[delete]

Is it too much of a problem for someone to demonstrate in detail exactly HOW the Holocaust has anything to do with our problems today?

I think Burrhus is partly answering your question here.

Thread: Nazism=Holocaust
(http://thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=243180&postcount=70)

[Captain Marinesko]

I think Burrhus is partly answering your question here.

Thread: Nazism=Holocaust
(http://thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=243180&postcount=70)


Not at all. Burrhus likes to write a lot of pseudo-philosophical rants that avoid concrete questions and answers.

I want to know HOW does the Holocaust affect the things we see in society today.

What is the relationship between the Holocaust and consumer culture?

What is the relationship between the Holocaust and an interventionalist, imperialistic foreign policy?

What does the Holocaust have to do with "Free Trade"?

What does the Holocaust have to do with worldwide women trafficking?

[Aryan Imperium]

How is the Holocaust raised in terms of immigration. It's not like the Nazis were exterminating immigrants, they were going into other countries and taking people out there.

Well Cap there is an ugly rumour that the National Socialists `gassed` 6,000,000` kikes. I don`t believe it mind but it is a hell of a bummer for our PR!

[Globus]

Well Cap there is an ugly rumour that the National Socialists `gassed` 6,000,000` kikes. I don`t believe it mind but it is a hell of a bummer for our PR!

There is no such rumor.

But what are we to make of someone who denies a history he clearly doesn't know the first thing about!!!

[Hlinkova Garda]

Not at all. Burrhus likes to write a lot of pseudo-philosophical rants that avoid concrete questions and answers.

I want to know HOW does the Holocaust affect the things we see in society today.

What is the relationship between the Holocaust and consumer culture?

What is the relationship between the Holocaust and an interventionalist, imperialistic foreign policy?

What does the Holocaust have to do with "Free Trade"?

What does the Holocaust have to do with worldwide women trafficking?

Yes,yes ,yes all that is fine and dandy but wouldnt have been great if there was a holocaust ........Think of the world now how grand of a place it would be not to mention the thought of all those jews being wiped out
:hugs: Hmmmm i get the same warm felling about that as I do about ridding our own country of hungarians .....Yes,yes ,yes i know it didnt happen but realy who cares ..........you know by costently bring this sub:rofl: ject up you make it very hard for those of us who would like to start anouther .or a first whatever the case may be

[Starr]

Is it too much of a problem for someone to demonstrate in detail exactly HOW the Holocaust has anything to do with our problems today? Our society's nature is dictated in the boardrooms of major corporations, congressional offices, and WTO meetings and conferences. How many times do you think the word Holocaust comes up in such a conversation?



And society is partially kept in line on subjects like mass immigration by bringing up the spector of the holocaust, racism,etc. I can't even count how many times I have heard anti-immigration organizations or certain political parties labeled as "nazis" "bigots" "haters" and so on.
Our friend, Globus told me that minorities have to be protected from people with despicable views like mine(and where do you think he is going with that?)This is how all too many people seem to think about anyone who has pro-white views(and only pro-white views.)

[Globus]

And society is partially kept in line on subjects like mass immigration by bringing up the spector of the holocaust, racism,etc.

Ah, that's just a rationalization for explaining why your views are simply not the views of the majority.

I can't even count how many times I have heard anti-immigration organizations or certain political parties labeled as "nazis" "bigots" "haters" and so on.

I'm sure sometimes wrongly, and sometimes correctly.

Our friend, Globus told me that minorities have to be protected from people with despicable views like mine(and where do you think he is going with that?)

I don't recall saying that. But that wouldn't be the first time you've mischaracterized by thoughts.

Just where do you think I'm going with your thought!

This is how all too many people seem to think about anyone who has pro-white views(and only pro-white views.)

Pro-white views my ass!

[Captain Marinesko]

And society is partially kept in line on subjects like mass immigration by bringing up the spector of the holocaust, racism,etc. I can't even count how many times I have heard anti-immigration organizations or certain political parties labeled as "nazis" "bigots" "haters" and so on.
Our friend, Globus told me that minorities have to be protected from people with despicable views like mine(and where do you think he is going with that?)This is how all too many people seem to think about anyone who has pro-white views(and only pro-white views.)


When has the Holocaust been brought up in an immigration issue? The label Nazi exists not simply because of the Holocaust but a laundry list of aggressive actions the Nazis took part in. Even many Palestinians refer to Zionists as Nazis.

[Arrow Cross]

Hmmmm i get the same warm felling about that as I do about ridding our own country of hungarians .....Yes,yes ,yes i know it didnt happen but realy who cares ..........you know by costently bring this sub:rofl: ject up you make it very hard for those of us who would like to start anouther .or a first whatever the case may be
So you wouldn't mind killing them now? That's surely not the spirit of Father Tiso, a Catholic priest, a man of God...

[Aryan Imperium]

Yes,yes ,yes all that is fine and dandy but wouldnt have been great if there was a holocaust ........Think of the world now how grand of a place it would be not to mention the thought of all those jews being wiped out
:hugs: Hmmmm i get the same warm felling about that as I do about ridding our own country of hungarians .....Yes,yes ,yes i know it didnt happen but realy who cares ..........you know by costently bring this sub:rofl: ject up you make it very hard for those of us who would like to start anouther .or a first whatever the case may be

I can understand your sentiment but feel it is unAryan to wish to seek the genocide of any people, even the jew. It is sufficient for me that they be removed from all offices of influence and that they be denied a homeland ad infinitum.
Sterilisation would be a more merciful way of dealing with the problem permamently.

[Starr]

[QUOTE=Globus]Ah, that's just a rationalization for explaining why your views are simply not the views of the majority.

Pro white views my ass!

It is an explanation of what has resulted from a situation where people have been beaten with something that has helped to cause them to reject even concerning themselves with the interests of their own race since the basic idea is that these things lead to "genocide" And for some it just shames them from openly speaking in an unapproved way on matters that might get labeled in a certain very negative way.
And what are my views? I would bet that you would greatly misjudge them and throw out all of the typical standard societal stereotypes.

I don't recall saying that. But that wouldn't be the first time you've mischaracterized by thoughts.

Just where do you think I'm going with your thought!

I provided you with a link in the thread about the greatest ZOG puppet.

BTW, your presence has been requested here:
http://thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16696&page=12
:munch:


When has the Holocaust been brought up in an immigration issue? The label Nazi exists not simply because of the Holocaust but a laundry list of aggressive actions the Nazis took part in. Even many Palestinians refer to Zionists as Nazis.

This is not incorrect. countless different people get labeled as "nazis" and hitler,etc. by their opponents. It is somewhat similar in a lot of people's minds, it seems, with referring to someone as "the devil" "satan" or whatever. But the basic idea, whoever it is thrown at, and especially when it is thrown at whites is to attempt to label them as genocidal.

[Hlinkova Garda]

So you wouldn't mind killing them now? That's surely not the spirit of Father Tiso, a Catholic priest, a man of God...
:hijacked: :hijacked: :hijacked:


So you wouldn't mind killing them now? That's surely not the spirit of Father Tiso, a Catholic priest, a man of God...
PLEASE DONT TALK ABOUT THINGS WELL BEYOND YOUR UNDERSTANDING
Finn I SAID "RIDDING OUR COUNTRY OF HUNGARYIANS NOT KILLING THEM
:duh: :duh: :duh:

[Globus]

[QUOTE]

It is an explanation of what has resulted from a situation where people have been beaten with something that has helped to cause them to reject even concerning themselves with the interests of their own race since the basic idea is that these things lead to "genocide"

Rubbish. Complete fiction. You create these fantasies to help you come to grips with the reality that nobody thinks about "interests of their own race" except for racists.

This is not incorrect. countless different people get labeled as "nazis" and hitler,etc. by their opponents.

No, not countless. And as I said, some of those so labeled are labeled appropriately.

[Aryan Imperium]

[QUOTE=Starr]

Rubbish. Complete fiction. You create these fantasies to help you come to grips with the reality that nobody thinks about "interests of their own race" except for racists.



No, not countless. And as I said, some of those so labeled are labeled appropriately.

Globus in any discussion with opponents the spectre of the holohaux and genocide are brought in to the mix and until the myth is exposed for the diabolical lie that it is any attempt to oppose the continuing genocide of our race will fail.
The fact that the vast masses of people give little thought for their race-or for anything outside of their tiny lives is of little relevance. History is made by great men, not the masses.

[Globus]

[QUOTE=Globus]

Globus in any discussion with opponents the spectre of the holohaux and genocide are brought in to the mix and until the myth is exposed for the diabolical lie that it is any attempt to oppose the continuing genocide of our race will fail.

You can claim the Holocaust is a myth right after you prove the earth is flat and was made in 6 days.

There is no racial genocide going on. Why do you make such outlandishly false statements?

[Starr]

[QUOTE=Globus]

Rubbish. Complete fiction. You create these fantasies to help you come to grips with the reality that nobody thinks about "interests of their own race" except for racists.

You are kidding me, right? Whites are the ONLY people in any large numbers that appear not to. You honestly don't think hispanics and blacks, for example think about the interests of their own race? lol. what have you been living under a rock? What a shockingly naive statement!:rofl:

[koch curve]

You are kidding me, right? Whites are the ONLY people in any large numbers that appear not to. You honestly don't think hispanics and blacks, for example think about the interests of their own race? lol. what have you been living under a rock? What a shockingly naive statement!:rofl:

honestly you should just turn yourself in to the ADL right now, youre a racist beyond any hope

[Burrhus]

Originally Posted by Starr
You are kidding me, right? Whites are the ONLY people in any large numbers that appear not to. You honestly don't think hispanics and blacks, for example think about the interests of their own race? lol. what have you been living under a rock? What a shockingly naive statement!

honestly you should just turn yourself in to the ADL right now, youre a racist beyond any hope

And loved and admired by many for it.

[Globus]

[QUOTE]

You are kidding me, right? Whites are the ONLY people in any large numbers that appear not to. You honestly don't think hispanics and blacks, for example think about the interests of their own race? lol.

No I don't. I think you're looking for justification for your own fixation.

[Starr]

honestly you should just turn yourself in to the ADL right now, youre a racist beyond any hope


There are a couple of people who have told me that I am a jew, so who knows, maybe I am also already secretly working for the ADL. But in reality, yes, I suppose I am desperately in need of some sensitivity training. Maybe Globus can give it to me.:(

[koch curve]

There are a couple of people who have told me that I am a jew, so who knows maybe I am also already secretly working for the ADL. But in reality, yes, I suppose I am desperately in need of some sentivity training. Maybe Globus can give it to me.:(

i guess if sensitivity training amounted to telling you youre a racist ad nauseum until you start to believe it i guess he could give it to you

[Hlinkova Garda]

I can understand your sentiment but feel it is unAryan to wish to seek the genocide of any people, even the jew. It is sufficient for me that they be removed from all offices of influence and that they be denied a homeland ad infinitum.
Sterilisation would be a more merciful way of dealing with the problem permamently.

Look my point is WHO CARES they are jews firthy little nothings Do you relize how many aryans died in that war on both sides or that right before that a forced famine cost
just as many if not more aryan lives ??? or how about the loss of aryan babys through the murder of abortion?? and that is just of the few the list is endless ..You are like the farmers arguing with old lady next door about dog shit on the front yard "who did it" "your dog " "my dog" "thier dog " "what dog" 'no dog" on & on............ all the while he is living on a manure farm

[Starr]

No I don't. I think you're looking for justification for your own fixation.

wow.:deadhorse:
I guess Globus has never heard of the NAACP, the black panther party, the nation of Islam(the white man is the devil) Jesse Jackson, Al sharpton, the nation council of La Raza(the race, and they are not talking about the "human race":whip: ) Mecha(for those of our race, everything, for those outside of our race, nothing)etc. He also didn't see hordes of Hispanics marching this summer for the interests of their own people. He also wouldn't dare take a look at the second link in my signature line and see that hispanics don't think of themselves as raceless citizens of the world as he does. the list of examples are endless. Again I feel the need to ask, what world are you living in?

Now, how about that debate with Glenn Miller?

[koch curve]

wow.:deadhorse:
I guess Globus has never heard of the NAACP, the black panther party, the nation of Islam, Jesse Jackson, Al sharpton, the nation council of La Raza(the race, and they are not talking about the "human race":whip: ) Mecha,etc. He also didn't see hordes of Hispanics marching this summer for the interests of their own people. He also wouldn't dare take a look at the second link in my signature line and see that hispanics don't think of themselves as raceless citizens of the world as he does. the list of examples are endless. Again I feel the need to ask, what world are you living in?

Now, how about that debate with Glenn Miller?

i dunno i think i pretty much exhausted glenn earlier

[Globus]

wow.:deadhorse:
I guess Globus has never heard of the NAACP, the black panther party, the nation of Islam, Jesse Jackson, Al sharpton, the nation council of La Raza(the race, and they are not talking about the "human race":whip: ) Mecha,etc.

Hearing of them doesn't exactly make your point, now does it. Care to try?


Now, how about that debate with Glenn Miller?

I don't know what you're talking about.

[Starr]

[QUOTE=Globus]Hearing of them doesn't exactly make your point, now does it. Care to try?

I guess they exist to advance the interests of all peoples of the world.

[Globus]

[QUOTE]

I guess they exist to advance the interests of all peoples of the world.

They exist to help overcome historical racism and prejudice.

[Starr]

They exist to help overcome historical racism and prejudice.


:rolleyes: Oh, god, why am I bothering.
They cry the endless cry about whitey, no doubt, and get people like you to believe they deserve all kinds of special privileges and rights, even when their "rights" and interests come into conflict with yours(I say this assuming you are white, which I am pretty sure you are, since only whites generally have their heads this far in the clouds when it comes to racial issues.) yes. they also exist to address and defend the common issues they have as a people and to advance themselves and these interests. In, itself, there is nothing wrong with this, but it is hypocritical that when whites attempt the same thing they are vilified and called haters.
It is somewhat shocking to come across someone who thinks like you since most ordinary people who might not think of themselves as "racist" in anyway, generally can still see the hypocrisy in all people with the exclusion of whites being allowed these things.

Globus if poor always discriminated against minorities always are fighting an uphill battle against racism in white society, wouldn't it be better if they had their own societies?

[Globus]

:rolleyes: Oh, god, why am I bothering.

Because you desperately need validation for your beliefs.

They cry the endless cry about whitey, no doubt, and get people like you to believe they deserve all kinds of special privileges and rights, even when their "rights" and interests come into conflict with yours(I say this assuming you are white,

Their rights do not come into conflict with mine, and your entire scenario reflects not reality, but your rather strange world view.

They ask for no privileges, but a redress of past discrimination. That you see things in racial terms as a privileged white person speaks to something more fundamental about you, than about race.

It is somewhat shocking to come across someone who thinks like you since most ordinary people who might not think of themselves as "racist" in anyway, generally can still see the hypocrisy in all people with the exclusion of whites being allowed these things.

Another of your fantasies, I'm afraid. You need to spend more time in the real world, where people don't obsess about their skin color and whine about being a racially privileged person.

[Kodos]

Has it occurred to anyone that with the exception of France and Canada, there are as good as no large Jewish communities in the countries that have made Holocaust denial illegal (Belgium, Germany, Spain)? Unless you subscribe to the tentacular omnipotence CT, I'd say there's something else involved in why the laws exist.

Belgium has a large jewish community (Antwerp)... they are also about the wealthiest group of jews in the world (diamond trade).

[Burrhus]

Starr: Globus if poor always discriminated against minorities always are fighting an uphill battle against racism in white society, wouldn't it be better if they had their own societies?

Did you notice, Starr, that Globus didn't address this point that you raised? Oh, don't worry, he'll come back now with some irrational response. He does have one pseudo-virtue...he's consistent (-ly vocal when he doesn't have a clue).

[Burrhus]

i dunno i think i pretty much exhausted glenn earlier

Whatever may be said of dear brother Glenn, he is definitely inexhaustible.

[Kriger]

=Globus

You can claim the Holocaust is a myth right after you prove the earth is flat and was made in 6 days.

There is no racial genocide going on. Why do you make such outlandishly false statements?




This is pretty amazing rhetoric for even you, Globus.

[Kriger]

Whatever may be said of dear brother Glenn, he is definitely inexhaustible.

This is one of the disagreements I have with the American White National movement.

This idea of calling a traitor and obvious mental patient a brother just because they are claiming to be White. Miller is not the only despicable character of this nature involved in the "movement". There are many, and they serve no purpose other than to completely discredit the folk and their right to live life as a White culture.

I do not consider the gutter lifestyle of these ones to be of White culture.

[delete]

This is one of the disagreements I have with the American White National movement.

This idea of calling a traitor and obvious mental patient a brother just because they are claiming to be White. Miller is not the only despicable character of this nature involved in the "movement". There are many, and they serve no purpose other than to completely discredit the folk and their right to live life as a White culture.

I do not consider the gutter lifestyle of these ones to be of White culture.

I think he meant it more in the sense, the mad munk brother Glenn.

I think he is the same stock as Globus, just different truths.

[Globus]

Did you notice, Starr, that Globus didn't address this point that you raised? Oh, don't worry, he'll come back now with some irrational response. He does have one pseudo-virtue...he's consistent (-ly vocal when he doesn't have a clue).

This is what you're reduced to when you don't really have anything to say.

[Globus]

Belgium has a large jewish community (Antwerp)... they are also about the wealthiest group of jews in the world (diamond trade).

Belgium has a tiny Jewish population of about 42,000 out of a total population of over 10 million.

Milhouse was correct. It is nothing more than a conspiracy theory that Jews have caused the enactment of denial laws in European countries.

[Aryan Imperium]

Globus]

You can claim the Holocaust is a myth right after you prove the earth is flat and was made in 6 days.


There is good scientific evidence that the world is not flat and indeed this fact was known to the ancients.
By contrast there is no evidence for a systematic and authorised extermination of the jews in Europe. If the evidence was so strong then research in to the subject would not be outlawed in Germany. What are the jews afraid of? Let the issue be debated fully and openly-and here`s the catch-HONESTLY.

There is no racial genocide going on. Why do you make such outlandishly false statements?

Really? Then what do you call the enforcement of the multiracial society in Europe if not a genocide of the Aryan race?

[Aryan Imperium]

honestly you should just turn yourself in to the ADL right now, youre a racist beyond any hope

I would be surprised if you have not already done so!

[Aryan Imperium]

Look my point is WHO CARES they are jews firthy little nothings Do you relize how many aryans died in that war on both sides or that right before that a forced famine cost
just as many if not more aryan lives ??? or how about the loss of aryan babys through the murder of abortion?? and that is just of the few the list is endless ..You are like the farmers arguing with old lady next door about dog shit on the front yard "who did it" "your dog " "my dog" "thier dog " "what dog" 'no dog" on & on............ all the while he is living on a manure farm

Sterilisation of the jews would accomplish the same goal and be an expression of mercy, a trait which comes naturally to the man who is Aryan in blood AND spirit.
What you are suggesting would merely stain a glorious beginning for the new Aryan man of the future.
As Aryans we should be able to rise above base desires for revenge and do what is needed in a clinical and humane way.

[Captain Marinesko]

There is good scientific evidence that the world is not flat and indeed this fact was known to the ancients.
By contrast there is no evidence for a systematic and authorised extermination of the jews in Europe. If the evidence was so strong then research in to the subject would not be outlawed in Germany. What are the jews afraid of? Let the issue be debated fully and openly-and here`s the catch-HONESTLY.

Actually there is plenty of evidence, you just don't bother to look or claim it's all fabricated. The Holocaust is debated fully and openly all the time on RODOH, and somehow whenever revisionists don't have mods on their side- they lose miserably every time.




Really? Then what do you call the enforcement of the multiracial society in Europe if not a genocide of the Aryan race?

This was implemented and preserved by the Bourgeoisie class, most of which is white and non-Jewish.

[Starr]

Milhouse was correct. It is nothing more than a conspiracy theory that Jews have caused the enactment of denial laws in European countries.


"Caused" as in jews alone as some all powerful force, that rules over white gentiles with an iron fist, :p forced the enactment of any laws could be called conspiracy thinking(I don't neccessarily think anyone is saying that, hopefully) But jewish organizations and organizations that consist of many jews are always pushing for the enactment of hate laws. The ADL, for example talks a bit here about how they "counter hate."
http://www.adl.org/focus_sheets/focus_overview.asp
It is not always just jews either, but other minorities and special interest groups(not always motivated by so called altruistic motives either) that consist of white gentiles that push for these things. Muslim organizations are also becoming especially whiny it seems.
You can probably figure, also that with many Europeans all eaten up with guilt, it probably isn't that difficult to get these laws passed. It is probably also not that difficult to figure out how easily lawmakers and politicians who would oppose these things could very easily be vilified, which wouldn't exactly be good for their career.

I would be surprised if you have not already done so!

He was joking, I think.:p Now if Globus would have said it........

Really? Then what do you call the enforcement of the multiracial society in Europe if not a genocide of the Aryan race?

The results that we are seeing of a multi racial society and non-stop immigration combined with the low birth rate of whites is headed in a very bad direction, but some talk about this as if the genocide of the white race is part of some dark plan, which I do not agree with.

[Captain Marinesko]

or that right before that a forced famine cost
just as many if not more aryan lives ???

Put the breaks on a second...what "forced famine"?

[Aryan Imperium]

[Captain Marinesko]Actually there is plenty of evidence, you just don't bother to look or claim it's all fabricated. The Holocaust is debated fully and openly all the time on RODOH, and somehow whenever revisionists don't have mods on their side- they lose miserably every time.



There is plenty of fabricated evidence, I will grant you that but no real evidence.
If the jews are so confident of their position then why do they insist on attempting to introduce yet more holohaux legislation elsewhere in Europe and the `west`? Why are they so afraid to allow open debate? Why are 67 year old historians imprisoned for remarks made 17 years previously?
Why are other revisionists deported or seized on European arrest warrants to stand trial in foreign countries that have holohaux denial legislation?
What happended to the concept of free speach enshrined in International Law?


This was implemented and preserved by the Bourgeoisie class, most of which is white and non-Jewish.

And in the pockets of their jewish masters-and PAY masters.

[Starr]

In all reality, the holocaust denial laws are stupid. Who really pays any attention to the revisionists anyway, who pays attention to any other side of the story? but when they are prosecuted and put in jail, then people might become a little more curious as to what they are saying. I sometimes think the point of the laws is not so much about fearing the opposition as much as it is "preserving" the holocaust as some sort of "unique" event. Puting people in jail gives the impression that even simply questioning any aspect of it is, in itself, evil and criminal. This is what gives it a sort of religious like feel. If questions and debate are allowed, even if the revisionists didn't have a leg to stand on, it will quickly be reduced to not much more than another unfortunate "event" in history. Remember when Le Pen got all kinds of flak for refering to it as a footnote? That, I believe is what some people do not want to see happen.

[Aryan Imperium]

In all reality, the holocaust denial laws are stupid. Who really pays any attention to the revisionists anyway, who pays attention to any other side of the story? but when they are prosecuted and put in jail, then people might become a little more curious as to what they are saying. I sometimes think the point of the laws is not so much about fearing the opposition as much as it is "preserving" the holocaust as some sort of "unique" event. Puting people in jail gives the impression that even simply questioning any aspect of it is, in itself, evil and criminal. If questions and debate are allowed it will quickly be reduced to not much more than another unfortunate "event" in history.

It is this `unique event` that grants the jew his power, his ONLY power over us.
Unless we smash the myth we can make no progress.

[Hlinkova Garda]

Put the breaks on a second...what "forced famine"? Oh gimme a break You know damn well ..................
........................................you know what never mind I dont want to get into this ...See ya :wave:

[cerberus]

Aryan ImperiumIt is this `unique event` that grants the jew his power, his ONLY power over us.
Unless we smash the myth we can make no progress.
You see the bottom line is there is no myth to smash , no one holds you in his power and the thought itself makes you look silly.

This is such a waste of time , it really is . Starr is quite right the whole revisionist case does not have a,leg to stand on , maiking it a crime has more to do with the Nazi past than any truth which the revisionist messgae carries today - as a scholarly attempt at history supported by science it is an abysmal failure.
At best it is the expresion of net nazis and the deluded , at worst it is an insult to the dead and a failure to learn from our joint past.
The gentlemen who promote it - the internet has made they legends in their own minds and the small group of followers they have .
Book sales , DVD sales , propaganda backed up by "history" and "facts".
The gambit that the listiner or viewer is invited to make their own mind up is meaningless - that this pseudo history exists only in the relam of fantasy and self delusion seems to cut no ice - that mainstrem historians have demolished the claims made is only taken as grounds for further conspiracy and "Jewish control".
Some revisionists promote this idea - David Irving , Ernest Zundel , Germar Rudolf and it is all eagerly consumed by a small following eager for any "proof" that the "truth" is being " suppressed".
On one hand it is amusing , I mean really funny and on the other hand its disgusting and utterly distasteful.
What will it achieve , what has it achieved - nothing - absolutely nothing , simply beacuse it has no basis in fact or in reason.
That respected trained historians are branded as being "court historians" , claims made that they are depending on towing the line to keep theer jobs and as payment for this are supporting lies and untruths is totally insane - it is the thinking of psychotics and irrational daydreamers who owe more to their misplaced desire to see te Hitler goverment go through some form of laundry process and to dust the dirt and blodd off what they achieved and stood for which is never far removed from the revisionist followers.

Being fooled - sorry lads - it is you who have been fooled and conned - taken for a ride and how glad you are to have been offerred the lift - the laugh is on you and you don't have the wit to see it.
tell me who makes money from all the books , DVD's , talks , conferences that you all rush off to ?
Lots of money to be made - why do you think David Irving is lapping up his role as "a prisoner of the truth" , he won't be in jail much longer and it will pay for itself handsomely.
He never reckoned on being there and what is a few months inside to a man who threw away £2 million odd on a libel case he never had a hope of winning ?
The real world - it exists outside this self perpetuating insanity which you carve and desire - you feed of it as it feeds of you , it is what you want , need and have to believe- without it you have nothing , not a thing - this is the really sad bit !

[Burrhus]

It is this `unique event` that grants the jew his power, his ONLY power over us.
Unless we smash the myth we can make no progress.

While I don't think that holocaust lie is the only source of jewish power, it is the currently dominant factor undermining white cultures. I agree that we can make no progress in re-gaining control of our culture until that lie is exposed and widely disbelieved. When the holocaust story collapses, more jewish lies will fall with it.

See here (and the thread in general) for a more extended discussion of the problem.

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=243180&postcount=70

[Aryan Imperium]

[Cerberus]
[QUOTE]You see the bottom line is there is no myth to smash , no one holds you in his power and the thought itself makes you look silly.[/QUOTE]

Yes there is a myth. A myth that 6,000,000 could possibly be incinerated in a handful of ovens on the basis of an `unwritten order`.


[QUOTE]This is such a waste of time , it really is . Starr is quite right the whole revisionist case does not have a,leg to stand on , maiking it a crime has more to do with the Nazi past than any truth which the revisionist messgae carries today - as a scholarly attempt at history supported by science it is an abysmal failure.
[/QUOTE]

History is not written in stone-or it shouldn`t be. Historians cannot make their minds up about events from thousands of years ago and every subject under the sun can be researched,openly debated and questioned but not the sacred cow of the holohaux or the myth carried over from WWI about the 6,000,000.
Why should that `historical` event be the only one that is not open to debate and furthermore why should old men be thrown in to a foreign prison for casting doubt upon the myth two decades previously? Does this not strike you as perverse, as desperate measures?

[QUOTE]At best it is the expresion of net nazis and the deluded , at worst it is an insult to the dead and a failure to learn from our joint past.
The gentlemen who promote it - the internet has made they legends in their own minds and the small group of followers they have .
Book sales , DVD sales , propaganda backed up by "history" and "facts".

[/QUOTE]

This sounds more of a description of the holohaux industry with bookshelves in every major bookstore devoted to the subject, videos, DVDs et al.
So why shouldn`t the opponents of the view have the right to state their case using similar media?


[QUOTE]The gambit that the listiner or viewer is invited to make their own mind up is meaningless - that this pseudo history exists only in the relam of fantasy and self delusion seems to cut no ice - that [B]mainstrem [/B]historians have demolished the claims made is only taken as grounds for further conspiracy and "Jewish control".[/QUOTE]

By `mainstrem`[sic] you mean kosher approved,state vetted historians,right?

[QUOTE]Some revisionists promote this idea - David Irving , Ernest Zundel , Germar Rudolf and it is all eagerly consumed by a small following eager for any "proof" that the "truth" is being " suppressed".

[/QUOTE]

And the `truth` is being suppressed?
If the claims of Irving et al are mere `lies` then why not allow them an open platform for free debate where your `mainstrem`[sic] `historians` can confront them with the `evidence`?

[QUOTE]On one hand it is amusing , I mean really funny and on the other hand its disgusting and utterly distasteful.
[/QUOTE]

What is `disgusting` and `distasteful` to me as that a lot of jews and writers on the subject are making themselves rich and the whole `event` is being used as a means to suppress Aryan awareness and pride.
Our survival depends upon the myth being shown up for the money making lie that it is.

[QUOTE]What will it achieve , what has it achieved - nothing - absolutely nothing , simply beacuse it has no basis in fact or in reason.


[/QUOTE]

Then why bother to search for the truth if it all doesn`t matter? Why bother with history at all?

[QUOTE]That respected trained historians are branded as being "court historians" , claims made that they are depending on towing the line to keep theer jobs and as payment for this are supporting lies and untruths is totally insane - it is the thinking of psychotics and irrational daydreamers who owe more to their misplaced desire to see te Hitler goverment go through some form of laundry process and to dust the dirt and blodd off what they achieved and stood for which is never far removed from the revisionist followers.
[/QUOTE]

`Trained` by who? Other safe, mainstrem[sic] historians who fear to stand out from the crowd and be different?
If you know anything about academics you should know that researching and publishing books[if you get that far] on theories that overturn `accepted` `truth` are likely to get you branded as a nut job and severely limit your career prospects. My hat goes off to the brave and manly few that are willing to say a big FUCK YOU to the establishment and perservere in disseminating their ideas. This is the thing with accepted `academics`: they have closed minds and limited horizons.


[QUOTE]Being fooled - sorry lads - it is you who have been fooled and conned - taken for a ride and how glad you are to have been offerred the lift - the laugh is on you and you don't have the wit to see it.[/QUOTE]

An accurate description of those who continue to promote the fairytale of the `6,000,000`.

[QUOTE]tell me who makes money from all the books , DVD's , talks , conferences that you all rush off to ?

[/QUOTE]

I have never been to a conference and only ever watched one documentary by revisionists. Despite reading books by established historians on the subject I own and have read only one revisionist work on the subject-Butz` work from the 1970s. Irving himself as you should know is not a holohaux historian and has published not a single book on the subject. So that is one myth debunked!

[QUOTE]Lots of money to be made - why do you think David Irving is lapping up his role as "a prisoner of the truth" , he won't be in jail much longer and it will pay for itself handsomely.
He never reckoned on being there and what is a few months inside to a man who threw away £2 million odd on a libel case he never had a hope of winning ? [/QUOTE]

The fact that Mr Irving has sacrificed his wealth, his home, his family and what is left of his life for the persuit of truth has earned my respect. There is not a single person on this forum, myself included that is fit to polish that man`s shoes.



[QUOTE]The real world - it exists outside this self perpetuating ins
anity which you carve and desire - you feed of it as it feeds of you , it is what you want , need and have to believe- without it you have nothing , not a thing - this is the really sad bit ![/QUOTE]

On the contrary, I would prefer nothing more than to lead a normal life but these are historic times in which we live and when I meet my ancestors I intend to do so with pride of having fought a good fight, not a life of humble submission to the jew and a subsequent straw death.
We either will survive and prosper like never before or our race will die.
When the struggle has been won we will remember those who opposed us-rest assured.

[Trojan]

[Cerberus]

Yes there is a myth. A myth that 6,000,000 could possibly be incinerated in a handful of ovens on the basis of an `unwritten order`.



You apparently have very little knowledge of what you are denying. First, NO ONE claims 6,000,000 Jews were incinerated in a handful of ovens.

Second, there were far more than "a handful of ovens" in Auschwitz.

Go back and read some more before you waste our time again.

[Globus]

Globus]



There is good scientific evidence that the world is not flat and indeed this fact was known to the ancients.

And there is excellent historical evidence for the Holocaust.

By contrast there is no evidence for a systematic and authorised extermination of the jews in Europe.

Utter stupidity. The evidence is immense and unless you are unwilling to put your head into a book, easily accessible.

Really? Then what do you call the enforcement of the multiracial society in Europe if not a genocide of the Aryan race?

What enforcement? You must mean that the majority of people don't agree with your racism!

And even if such laws existed, that is hardly genocide of whites.

[Trojan]

While I don't think that holocaust lie is the only source of jewish power, it is the currently dominant factor undermining white cultures. I agree that we can make no progress in re-gaining control of our culture until that lie is exposed and widely disbelieved. When the holocaust story collapses, more jewish lies will fall with it.

See here (and the thread in general) for a more extended discussion of the problem.

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=243180&postcount=70

First, I have to mention that you are the only one I have encountered that acutally quotes his own statements in his signature - kinda wierd.

Second, if you want to disprove the Holocaust, best get busy on that alternative hypothesis, for all your blustering, you've shown little original thought on the subject - something shown by many revisionists.

[Globus]

"Caused" as in jews alone as some all powerful force, that rules over white gentiles with an iron fist, :p forced the enactment of any laws could be called conspiracy thinking(I don't neccessarily think anyone is saying that, hopefully) But jewish organizations and organizations that consist of many jews are always pushing for the enactment of hate laws.

Bullshit. You don't have a single example in any of the European countries under discussion.

The results that we are seeing of a multi racial society and non-stop immigration combined with the low birth rate of whites is headed in a very bad direction, but some talk about this as if the genocide of the white race is part of some dark plan, which I do not agree with.

Of course like most of these conspiracy theories involving race, it always depends on the stupidity or active participation of whites!

[Globus]

[Captain Marinesko]

There is plenty of fabricated evidence, I will grant you that but no real evidence.

Then you shouldn't have any trouble showing us some of this faked evidence, and your evidence it is faked!

If the jews are so confident of their position

This is not a postion of Jews, you blind fool, this is the postion of the vast majority of the world, led by the historians who wrote the history.

then why do they insist on attempting to introduce yet more holohaux legislation elsewhere in Europe and the `west`?

Where is your evidence for this? And any attempts they might make are irrelevant. The laws were passed and supported because non Jews wanted them. I know that conflicts with your mindless focus on Jews, but that's your problem.

Why are they so afraid to allow open debate?

Again, the "they" is essentially the entire countries involved.

Why are 67 year old historians imprisoned for remarks made 17 years previously?

Because he was stupid enough to go back to a country whose law he broke just to speak to a bunch of right wing nuts.

Why are other revisionists deported or seized on European arrest warrants

Because they broke US immigration law.

You don't have a single shred of evidence that these laws are the work of anyone other than the citizens and governments of those countries.

[Burrhus]

On the contrary, I would prefer nothing more than to lead a normal life but these are historic times in which we live and when I meet my ancestors I intend to do so with pride of having fought a good fight, not a life of humble submission to the jew and a subsequent straw death.
We either will survive and prosper like never before or our race will die.
When the struggle has been won we will remember those who opposed us-rest assured.

Bravo, Aryan Imperium. Words well spoken by a good white man.

[Starr]

What enforcement? You must mean that the majority of people don't agree with your racism!

And even if such laws existed, that is hardly genocide of whites.


A majority of people might not agree with AI and myself on everything we might believe. Hell, even AI and I don't agree on everything, but I would be quite willing to bet that a majority of whites do not approve of the non stop brown flod as it is, poll after poll, at least in the U.S. confirms this to be not something I pulled out of the air, but reality. You also see the situation repeated all of the time of minorities moving in and whites who are able, moving out(white flight as some call it) There is also plenty of self segregation still being practiced. On a subject as "sensitive" as race these are the things you have to look at rather than what people say.

The situation we have right now is one of immigrants popping up on a shores every day and breeding like it is going out of style while whites are not breeding enough to sustain their numbers. We cannot even openly talk about these things because it is "racist" which society says is bad. On top of all of that, there is the situation where whites are bending over backwards in their own lands in an attempt not to offend minorities and minorities see this an take advantage of it. Now tell me what kind of message that sends to, for example, mexicans, many of whom have their sites set on talking back their "stolen" land in the southwest, or Muslims in Europe? Not a good one.

[calvin]

Because they broke US immigration law

If the Yanks are so big on repatriating illegal immigrants how come they aren't doing anything about the hundreds of thousands of Mexicans who have illegally entered their country? Zundel and Rudolf were kicked out because they offended the world’s most powerful minority, full stop case closed.

[Starr]

If the Yanks are so big on repatriating illegal immigrants how come they aren't doing anything about the hundreds of thousands of Mexicans who have illegally entered their country? Zundel and Rudolf were kicked out because they offended the world’s most powerful minority, full stop case closed.

Well, there is also the fact that those illegal mexicans who work for peanuts are needed and wanted by some very powerful and wealthy people. A couple of politically incorrect white guys are not and therefore can just be tossed out.

It is funny, though that Globus brings up immigration laws. Immigration laws are a complete joke. The same kind of people who jump up and down about deporting some old white guy or a revisionist for so called immigration violations(and I would be talking about organizations like the SPLC) will defend "the rights" of illegal mexicans.:rofl:

[koch curve]

if illegal immigrants stopped working and demanded equal rights they would be out as fast as zundel

[delete]

if illegal immigrants stopped working and demanded equal rights they would be out as fast as zundel

That is a lie and you know it. Both Rudolf and Zundel was send out because of pressure from both jewish orgs and the german government.

[koch curve]

That is a lie and you know it. Both Rudolf and Zundel was send out because of pressure from both jewish orgs and the german government.

uhh yeah no shit sherlock someone grab this kid a medal

and are you dumb enough to think that corporate concerns arent whats keeping illegals in america from getting kicked out? if illegal immigrants went on strike and demanded wage increases from the companies they worked for theyd be out on their asses just as quick as it would take the next wave of non-rights demanding immigrants to cross over (which given current illegal immigration rates probably about 30 seconds)

jewish groups wanted him out, the german government wanted him out, and he wasnt working for wal-mart for 30 cents an hour, so he got kicked out. i dont see whats so hard to accept about this.

why would the us want to damage german-american relations to keep a second-rate lying historian safe from the courts he was fleeing?

[cerberus]

Aryan ImperiumYes there is a myth. A myth that 6,000,000 could possibly be incinerated in a handful of ovens on the basis of an `unwritten order`.

"The term argumentum exsilentio ?
The fallacy of deriving far -reaching cnclusions about what happened ( or did not happen) in histry from the absence of documentery evidence."
"The Unwritten order" by P.Longerich.
History is not written in stone-or it shouldn`t be. Historians cannot make their minds up about events from thousands of years ago and every subject under the sun can be researched,openly debated and questioned but not the sacred cow of the holohaux or the myth carried over from WWI about the 6,000,000.
Why should that `historical` event be the only one that is not open to debate and furthermore why should old men be thrown in to a foreign prison for casting doubt upon the myth two decades previously? Does this not strike you as perverse, as desperate measures?
May I refer you to my quote from Longerich's books - it is you who wish to cast in stone.
Don't talk balderdash , nothing related to the Holcoaust was caried over from WW1 that did not spring from Adolf Hitler himself.
BTW Historians can agree and present a very full picture of many events from thousands of years ago - have you read any history ?;) :whip:
There you go again with your soundbites " the 6,000,000".
I think the desperate measures belong to you old son.:)
So why shouldn`t the opponents of the view have the right to state their case using similar media?
Did I deny you that right ? No !
You assume that i do, casting in stone again , or is it just some concrete thinking ?
By `mainstrem`[sic] you mean kosher approved,state vetted historians,right?
More soundbites - utterly meaningless , you do know the difference between history and propaganda , or even fact and propaganda ?
And the `truth` is being suppressed?
If the claims of Irving et al are mere `lies` then why not allow them an open platform for free debate where your `mainstrem`[sic] `historians` can confront them with the `evidence`?
More balderdash - was Irving's truth suppressed when he went to court against Lipstadt and penguin Publishers ?
Why did Irving suppress Rudolf ?
You seem to exist on a diet of myth and soundbite.
Trained` by who? Other safe, mainstrem[sic] historians who fear to stand out from the crowd and be different?
If you know anything about academics you should know that researching and publishing books[if you get that far] on theories that overturn `accepted` `truth` are likely to get you branded as a nut job and severely limit your career prospects. My hat goes off to the brave and manly few that are willing to say a big FUCK YOU to the establishment and perservere in disseminating their ideas. This is the thing with accepted `academics`: they have closed minds and limited horizons.

they are judged by their ability to withstand critical assessment and when they make claims which cannot be supported by fact and reasobale arguement , well it is then that they run inoto trouble.
Let me give you an example.
Sir Ian kershaw or Richard Overy - trained historians.
David Irving and Fred Toben , untrained and proven to be unreliable .
Nothing to doi with being afraid to stand out from the crowd, its about using information correctly and not driving square pegs into round holes.
I refer you to the Irvign Fiasco and how his standard of historical evidnce was exposed as being shoddy and untruthful.
This was proven and well proven , it is why he lost his action.
Faurission and Toben have been proven to have been equally poor "historians" and Zundel is so daft he does not even qualigy to be taken seriously. ( Unless that is you are into UFO's:rofl: ).
What is this supposed to be "Real History" ?
is being used as a means to suppress Aryan awareness and pride.
In other words propaganda is your prime interest.
I have never been to a conference and only ever watched one documentary by revisionists. Despite reading books by established historians on the subject I own and have read only one revisionist work on the subject-Butz` work from the 1970s. Irving himself as you should know is not a holohaux historian and has published not a single book on the subject. So that is one myth debunked!
Butz has been utterly discredited and if you are basing your faith on his writings you are depending on a broken stick.
Let's see the 1970's that is almost thiry years ago - I see you keep up to date with research , or is what you read "cast in stone" ?
Irving - has spoken on the holocaust and I would have to ask you what is a "holohoax historian" , this need to exist on soundbites - it does not impress and makes your case appear weak and threadbare.
I "should know" , should know what ?
You have yet to explain what a holocaust historian is ?
Historians do not exist in such limited subject matter - your knowledge of what a historian should be is amazingly shallow.
Are you seriosuly saying that Irving does not know the history of 33-45 ?
He claims to be an expert , this "you should know". :whip:
[The fact that Mr Irving has sacrificed his wealth, his home, his family and what is left of his life for the persuit of truth has earned my respect. There is not a single person on this forum, myself included that is fit to polish that man`s shoes.
/QUOTE]
Whilst I feel for his family , David Irving above all is an egotistical fool and your admiration is misplaced, but you lack the knowledge to understand this.
I would think that Mr. Irving has time enough to polish his own shoes. He is a flawed individual and a poor historian , this much has been demonstrated , not least by himself - you lack the knowledge to understand this as you haev again demonstarted.
(You would seem to have much in comon with Mr. Irving).
[QUOTE]When the struggle has been won we will remember those who opposed us-rest assured.
I tremble in my boots.:nuts: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Globus]

A majority of people might not agree with AI and myself on everything we might believe.

You enjoy hyperbole?

Hell, even AI and I don't agree on everything, but I would be quite willing to bet that a majority of whites do not approve of the non stop brown flod

And your willingness to bet is meant as a substitute for actual evidence?

as it is, poll after poll, at least in the U.S. confirms this to be not something I pulled out of the air, but reality.

You are being disengenuous. Polls may confirm that unbridled, illegal immigration is not favored. What sane person could argue with that. But the reasons for it have nothing to do with race, or with some tragically bizarre notion that the white race is in danger of suffering a genocide.

You also see the situation repeated all of the time of minorities moving in and whites who are able, moving out

No different that the movements seen in American cities exchanging all white groups, but of different nationalities. There are neighborhoods in Boston, to pick one old US city, that have gone through periods of being WASP, Jewish, Irish and Italian. The unfounded fears and perceived socio-economic threats posed by such movements have nothing to do with race and everything to do with sociology.

(white flight as some call it) There is also plenty of self segregation still being practiced. On a subject as "sensitive" as race these are the things you have to look at rather than what people say.

And what intelligent people look at paints a complex issue not explained by your simplistic and self-justifying rationales.

The situation we have right now is one of immigrants popping up on a shores every day and breeding like it is going out of style while whites are not breeding enough to sustain their numbers.

But that situation is not one that animates many people. That is just your hobby-horse.

[Globus]

If the Yanks are so big on repatriating illegal immigrants how come they aren't doing anything about the hundreds of thousands of Mexicans who have illegally entered their country?

The numbers are much higher.

The obvious answer is that those immigrants are not so stupid as to make public spectacles of themselves with extremist activities, and then to openly flout immigration laws even after being told their status was precarious.

[Globus]

Well, there is also the fact that those illegal mexicans who work for peanuts are needed and wanted by some very powerful and wealthy people.

Far more importantly than that, they are much needed by the US economy.

It is funny, though that Globus brings up immigration laws. Immigration laws are a complete joke. The same kind of people who jump up and down about deporting some old white guy or a revisionist for so called immigration violations(and I would be talking about organizations like the SPLC) will defend "the rights" of illegal mexicans.:rofl:

And here we see that your concern isn't illegal immigration, but non-white immigration. This is precisely what separates you from public opinion on the issue.

There was nothing so-called about the white guys' immigration violations, and I challenge you to find a single case where the SPLC or organizations like it defended an illegal immigrant against deportation.

[Globus]

That is a lie and you know it. Both Rudolf and Zundel was send out because of pressure from both jewish orgs and the german government.

Both claims are falsehoods and typical of someone who wishes to mindlessly attribute anything to his perceived conspiratorial participants.

[ivory bill]

And here we see that your concern isn't illegal immigration, but non-white immigration. This is precisely what separates you from public opinion on the issue.


Her concern is illegal non-English-speaking, non-American, non-assimilible, non-White immigration. That is precisely what most Americans oppose. It is such as you who are separated from public opinion.

[Starr]

When they march with the flags of another nation and talk about Reconquista?(sp?) what would you call that if not "making spectacles of themselves" and extremism? Or do they get a pass since we are talking about noble hispanics instead of "evil nazis?"

The myth of Aztlan can best be explained by California's Santa Barbara School District's Chicano Studies textbook, "The Mexican American Heritage" by East Los Angeles high school teacher Carlos Jimenez. On page 84 there is a redrawn map of Mexico and the United States, showing Mexico with a full one-third more territory, all of it taken back from the United States. On page 107, it says "Latinos are now realizing that the power to control Aztlan may once again be in their hands."
http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html


People like this don't get deported. Instead they get to organize and speak on college campuses.

There was nothing so-called about the white guys' immigration violations, and I challenge you to find a single case where the SPLC or organizations like it defended an illegal immigrant against deportation.

The SPLC and the ACLU do even better than that, they defend illegal immigration by bringing lawsuits against cities and lawmakers who attempt to enact laws to crack down on the invaders and those who aid and abet them. There are threads floating around here about it. In my opinion this comes very close to treason.

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12104&highlight=aclu
http://thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15782&highlight=splc

there are other examples on here, but I am not in the mood to dig them all up.

[koch curve]

i really dont see why illegal immigration has become as controversial as it has. as much as you want to make it a racial or human rights issue, these people are entering unlawfully, and then exporting most of their money out of america and into the mexican economy. theyre illegal, and a drain on the economy.

[Der Sozialist]

i really dont see why illegal immigration has become as controversial as it has. as much as you want to make it a racial or human rights issue, these people are entering unlawfully, and then exporting most of their money out of america and into the mexican economy. theyre illegal, and a drain on the economy.

Here are some interesting poll results on the subject matter:

"Which political party -- the Democrats or the Republicans -- do you think would do a better job on each of the following issues? Immigration."
Democrats: 37%
Republicans: 32%
Equal: 15%
Unsure: 17%
FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll. July 11-12, 2006. N=900 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.

"In general, do you think immigrants who come to the United States today join society and give to the country or stay separate from society and take from the country?"

Join Society/Give: 41%
Stay separate/take: 36%
Depends: 17%
Unsure: 6%

Do you think the United States should increase or decrease the number of legal immigrants allowed to move to this country?
Increase: 24%
Decrease: 51%
No change: 17%
Unsure: 8%

Gallup Poll. June 8-25, 2006. N=2,032 adults nationwide, including oversamples of Blacks and Hispanics weighted to reflect their proportions in the general population. MoE ± 6.
On the whole, do you think immigration is a good thing or a bad thing for this country today?
[ 6/8-25/06]

Good thing: 67%
Bad thing: 28%
Mixed: 4%
Unsure: 1%

Which comes closest to your view about what government policy should be toward illegal immigrants currently residing in the United States? Should the government deport all illegal immigrants back to their home country, allow illegal immigrants to remain in the United States in order to work but only for a limited amount of time, or allow illegal immigrants to remain in the United States and become U.S. citizens but only if they meet certain requirements over a period of time?

[ 6/8-25/06]
Deport all: 16%
Remain for limited time: 17%
Remain if meet certain requirements: 66%
Unsure: 1%

[source (http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm)]

[Globus]

Her concern is illegal non-English-speaking, non-American, non-assimilible, non-White immigration..

No, it's what I said it is.

But it's good to see our resident Jew hater had time to come and deposit his latest bowel movement!

[ivory bill]

No, Globus, it's what I said it is.

But I expected to see our resident Jew come back and deposit another bowel movement.

[calvin]

The obvious answer is that those immigrants are not so stupid as to make public spectacles of themselves with extremist activities, and then to openly flout immigration laws even after being told their status was precarious

Yup! These illegal immigrants never, ever, draw attention to themselves, you never hear about Mexican illegals being involved in rapes, violent crimes and robberies; you never hear about them participating in million person pro-illegal immigration demonstrations and none of them are involved with pro-Atzlan supremacist groups.

Brown Berets, we're here today to show L.A., show the minority people here, the Anglo-Saxons, that we are here, the majority, we're here to stay. We do the work in this city, we take care of the spoiled brat children, we clean their offices, we pick the food, we do the manufacturing in the factories of L.A., we are the majority here and we are not going to be pushed around. We're here in Westwood, this is the fourth time we've been here in the last two months, to show white Anglo-Saxon Protestant L.A., the few of you who remain, that we are the majority, and we claim this land as ours, it's always been ours, and we're still here, and none of the talk about deporting. If anyone's going to be deported it's going to be you! Go back to Simi Valley, you skunks! Go back to Woodland Hills! Go back to Boston! To back to the Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You're old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you, leave like beaten rats. You old white people, it is your duty to die. Even their own ethicists say that they should die, that they have a duty to die. They're taking up too much space, too much air. We are the majority in L.A. There's over seven million Mexicans in L.A. County alone. We are the majority. And you're going to see every day more and more of it, as we manifest as our young people grow up, graduate from high school, go on to college and start taking over this society. The vast majority of our people are under the age of 15 years old. Right now we're already controlling those elections, whether it's by violence or nonviolence. Through love of having children we're going to take over." Other demonstrators: "Raza fuerza (brown race power), this is Aztlan, this is Mexico. They're the pilgrims on our land. Go back to the Nina, the Pinta, the Santa Maria. Augustin Cebada

[cerberus]

GiestCombat 18 - I cannot think of a more idiotic group of people.
Don't saythat to masty - he used to post on C18 forum. :bbbat:
A bunch of bin liners - absolutely.

As far as burning flags and books go hardly a major crime , nazis have always been into book burning , they seem to think that it does not contribute to global warming and saves them burning oil as they are no doubt saving it for their next "Blitzkrieg" or heavy metal music day out .

What does it amount to a bunch of barinless tits in white tee shirts, braces , short legged jeans , big boots and shaed head with tattoos yelling "S.H" in between buring books and jumping up and down to thrash metal music .
Great night out "for the lads".:nuts: :sick: :hitler: :rolleyes:

[calvin]

Then Masty was drawn into a forum inspired by group that was set up by the British Secret Services with the intention of radicalising young patriots in conformity with a violent and moronic stereotype created by left-wing liberals. Combat-18 has nothing to do with right-wing activism and everything to do with Judeo-liberal Black-ops.

[Globus]

No, Globus, it's what I said it is.

No, IB, it is as I described it.

[Globus]

The SPLC and the ACLU do even better than that, they defend illegal immigration by bringing lawsuits against cities and lawmakers who attempt to enact laws to crack down on the invaders and those who aid and abet them. There are threads floating around here about it. In my opinion this comes very close to treason.

Nonsense. Defending someone legally is hardly treason.

And I note you are unable to show a single instance in which the SPLC intervened to stop a lawful deportation for an illegal immigrant.

Your examples have to do with due process and legal issues. In case you haven't noticed, the Federal Government, which controls immigration law, has no interest in attempting to deport millions of people.

[Globus]

Yup! These illegal immigrants never, ever, draw attention to themselves, you never hear about Mexican illegals being involved in rapes, violent crimes and robberies;

A tiny fraction of the total. The vast majority do not draw attention to themselves, do not write books and promote websites and seek publicity for their rather kooky views. Furthermore, they don't willingly involve themselves with the INS thinking their public personas will save them.

They were stupid.

[ivory bill]

Nonsense. Defending someone legally is hardly treason.

In case you haven't noticed, the Federal Government, which controls immigration law, has no interest in attempting to deport millions of illegal invaders.

We've all noticed, every legal citizen has noticed. Most of us regard the government's indifference to our laws as a form of treason.

[Rusty Mason]

Anne Frank's (fake) diary has been raised to the level of holy myth, past all serious historical inquiry. It is essential that laws be made to protect this (obviously fictious) document. Othewise, everyone will begin popping Jews into ovens.

[Globus]

We've all noticed, every legal citizen has noticed. Most of us regard the government's indifference to our laws as a form of treason.

But most of you are hardly in the mainstream of views.

[Globus]

Anne Frank's (fake) diary has been raised to the level of holy myth, past all serious historical inquiry.

There is nothing fake about the Anne Frank diary.

[koch curve]

Anne Frank's (fake) diary has been raised to the level of holy myth, past all serious historical inquiry. It is essential that laws be made to protect this (obviously fictious) document. Othewise, everyone will begin popping Jews into ovens.

yes, the diary of anne frank is the only thing between me and the oven :rolleyes:

[ivory bill]

There is nothing fake about the Anne Frank diary.

Other than the ball-point pen her father used to embellish it with. :rolleyes:

[Captain Marinesko]

Other than the ball-point pen her father used to embellish it with. :rolleyes:


The only thing written with a ball-point pen was certain notes inserted on sheets of paper. Nothing in the diary itself was written by a ball-point.

I don't see what the point is though, the diary has little to do with proof of the Holocaust.

[koch curve]

Other than the ball-point pen her father used to embellish it with. :rolleyes:

In 1986, the Dutch "Gerechtelijk Laboratorium" (State Forensic Science Laboratory) in Rijswijk conducted another extensive technical examination of the manuscript. Though the BKA was invited by the "Gerechtelijk Laboratorium" to indicate where on the loose-leaf pages it had found the "ballpoint corrections", the BKA was unable to point out a single example. The "Gerechtelijk Laboratorium" itself found only two slips of paper in ballpoint ink which had been inserted in Anne Frank's loose leaf manuscript. The Revised Critical Edition of the Diary of Anne Frank (published 2003) reproduces images (pages 167-171) of the two slips of paper, and in the chapter summarising the findings of the State Forensic Science Laboratory which analysed the materials, ink and handwriting in the manuscripts of Anne Frank, H.J.J. Hardy writes on the matter:

The only ballpoint writing was found on two loose scraps of paper included among the loose sheets. Figures VI-I-I and 3 show the way in which these scraps of paper had been inserted into the relevant plastic folders. As far as the factual contents of the diary are concerned the ballpoint writings have no significance whatsoever. Morever, the handwriting on the scraps of paper and in the diary differs strikingly.(page 167)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Frank

[ivory bill]

Yep, it's Holocaustian holy writ enscribed by a jewish angel with a kosher pen only.

[Captain Marinesko]

Yep, it's Holocaustian holy writ enscribed by a jewish angel with a kosher pen only.

Did I NOT just say that it really doesn't have anything to do with proving the Holocaust or what?

[koch curve]

Yep, it's Holocaustian holy writ enscribed by a jewish angel with a kosher pen only.

even if it turned out to be a forgery, what happened to the franks is true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Silberbauer

[Globus]

Other than the ball-point pen her father used to embellish it with. :rolleyes:

The ballpoint pen embellished nothing, and has nothing to do with the diary itself.

[cerberus]

Ivory BillYep, it's Holocaustian holy writ enscribed by a jewish angel with a kosher pen only.
It is amazing how much people want to be fooled and how offended they are when you say that they are foolish.
This is truely the most amazing act of :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: .

And still people are prepared to quote and loom up to that old fool Robert Faurisson.
No fool like an old fool.:whip:

[Aryan Imperium]

You apparently have very little knowledge of what you are denying. First, NO ONE claims 6,000,000 Jews were incinerated in a handful of ovens.

Second, there were far more than "a handful of ovens" in Auschwitz.

Go back and read some more before you waste our time again.

I have little need to read any more jewish myths, first the bible and then the holohaux.
The jews claim that 6,000,000 of their kind were exterminated during a period lasting but a few years. What they do not explain is HOW Germany could possibly accomplish the disappearance of so many people in such a short time or indeed WHY they would do so considering that workers, even unwilling ones were needed for the war effort. Neither do they justify how Germany could have spared the manpower to accomplish such a task when resources were already stretched to the limit after 5 years of intercontinental war in multiple theatres.
It is also an incredible coincidence that the jews also claimed during WWI that 6,000,000 of their brethren were exterminated by the Germans. That would make a total of 12,000,000 jewish exterminations in a period of less than 27 years!!
Yet incredibly even the jews` own international census figures do not reflect any great decrease in their population. What a contrast to the dminished populations of northern Europe!
I would say on this basis alone not only was there NO holohaux but their losses were favourable compared to other peoples.

I see that the numbers of alleged losses at the Auschwitz work camp seem to be going down all the time.

http://www.ety.com/HRP/rev/a-fig.htm

31.12.1945 French Investigation Panel on Nazi-War-Crimes

8.000.000
19.08.1998 Chief Rabbi from Paland (Süddeutsche Zeitung)

6.000.000
20.04.1978 Le Monde (French daily paper)

5.000.000
23.01.1995 Die Welt (German daily paper)

5.000.000
20.04.1989 Eugen Kogon, Der SS-Staat (famous book of a holocaust survivor, page 176)

4.500.000
31.12.1952 Der Neue Herder (Enzyclopedia, Germany) 7. edition (page 214)

4.500.000
01.10.1946 IMT-Document 008-USSR (Nuremberg Military Tribunal)

4.000.000
02.05.1997 USA-Today (daily paper USA)

4.000.000
24.11.1989 Head prosecutor Majorowsky, Wuppertal, Germany (indictment 12 Js 1037/89)

4.000.000
26.07.1990 Allgem. Jüdische Wo.Ztg. (Jewish weekly, Bonn)

4.000.000
08.10.1993 ZDF-Nachrichten (German TV)

4.000.000
25.01.1995 Wetzlarer Neue Zeitung (German daily paper)

4.000.000
01.10.1946 IMT-Document 3868-PS (Nuremberg Military Tribunal)

3.000.000
01.01.1995 Damals (official monthly magazine on history, sponsored by the Bonn government)

3.000.000
18.07.1990 The Peninsula Times (daily paper, S.Francisco, USA)

2.000.000
25.07.1990 Hamburger Abendblatt (daily paper Germany)

2.000.000
27.01.1995 Die Welt (German daily paper, quoting Chancellor Helmut Kohl. Minimum of 2 million)

2.000.000
02.05.1997 USA-Today (daily paper USA)

1.500.000
11.06.1992 Allgem. Jüdische Wo.Ztg (Jewish weekly, Bonn)

1.500.000
08.10.1993 ZDF (German TV)

1.500.000
23.01.1995 Die Welt (German daily paper)

1.500.000
01.09.1989 Le Monde (French daily paper)

1.433.000
02.02.1995 BUNTE Illustrierte (German weekly magazine)

1.400.000
22.01.1995 Welt am Sonntag (German daily, sunday edition)

1.200.000
27.01.1995 Die Welt (German daily paper)

1.100.000
27.01.1995 IfZ (Institut for Contemporary History, München, sponsored by the Bonn government)

1.000.000
31.12.1989 Pressac, Auschwitz, Technique ... (official report on Auschwitz, commissioned by the Jewsh Beate Klarsfeld Foundation)

928.000
27.09.1993 Die Welt (German daily paper)

800.000
22.01.1995 Welt am Sonntag (German daily, sunday edition)

750.000
01.05.1994 Focus (German weekly magazine)

700.000
23.01.1995 Die Welt (German daily paper)

700.000
31.12.1994 Pressac, Die Krematorien ... (2nd official report on Auschwitz, commissioned by the Jewsh Beate Klarsfeld Foundation)

470.000
08.01.1948 Welt im Film (British news reel, nbr. 137)

300.000
06.01.1990 Frankfurter Rundschau (German daily paper)

74.000
31.05.1994 Hoffmann, Stalins Vernichtungskrieg (Book, written by a renowned German historian, p.302 f.)

74.000
17.08.1994 Intern. Red Cross Arolsen - Department of holocaust investigations (Ref. nbr.: 10824)

66.206

[Aryan Imperium]

even if it turned out to be a forgery, what happened to the franks is true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Silberbauer

Only a jew could state that a foregery could contain the `truth`! What twisted `logic` you people display. Is it any wonder that nobody trusts a jew?

[Hlinkova Garda]

even if it turned out to be a forgery, what happened to the franks is true:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Silberbauer


Yes I agree they died of diseases brought on by thier own filth

[Aryan Imperium]

[Globus]And there is excellent historical evidence for the Holocaust.




Then why is the issue not freely debated? Why do holocaust denial laws exist in many[but not all] western countries? Why don`t the jews campaign to reverse the legislation so that free debate can occur? Why are they pushing for such laws to be introduced EU wide? Why is the holohaux the only `historical` issue that cannot be debated? Why is even debate about the numbers involved outlawed? Why are the jews so protected and their lie so protected in this way?

Utter stupidity. The evidence is immense and unless you are unwilling to put your head into a book, easily accessible.

I am not convinced by the claims of the holohaux just as I am not convinced by that other jewish fable and money spinner-the bibble.
Bothe had their inquistions I recall!


What enforcement? You must mean that the majority of people don't agree with your racism!


Hardly, I do not recall any referendums being conducted amongst the Aryan nations as to whether they wish to permit unrestained alien immigration in to their lands and the inevitable race-mixing.

And even if such laws existed, that is hardly genocide of whites.


Multiracial societies are now the norm in Europe and any resistance to this process is met with the full force of the law. I would say that is genocide. A race and a people need a territorial imperative, a Lebensraum in order to exist.What is happening is genocide-a real one unlike your jewish holohaux.

[ivory bill]

The only thing written with a ball-point pen was certain notes inserted on sheets of paper. Nothing in the diary itself was written by a ball-point.

I don't see what the point is though, the diary has little to do with proof of the Holocaust.

JP, look at the thread title, does it say anything about proof of the Holocaust?

Or is it about people being jailed for burning copies of Anne Frank's diary?

I suggest that you take a nap and perhaps you will clear your thoughts.

[Starr]

Nonsense. Defending someone legally is hardly treason.



Defending the (non) rights of illegal invaders, many of whom are loyal only to the interests of another country and believe they are going to take back land that were stolen from that country indeed borders on treason.

I believe I have proven my point sufficiently enough. If you still don't get it you are not going to get it, since you can't, for one second, step outside of your need to defend minorities. And this is way off topic, so Iwon't harp on it any more in this thread.

[Burrhus]

You are being disengenuous. Polls may confirm that unbridled, illegal immigration is not favored. What sane person could argue with that. But the reasons for it have nothing to do with race, or with some tragically bizarre notion that the white race is in danger of suffering a genocide.

World population: 1930, white, 33%; 2006, white, 10%; 2100 (projected), white, less than 5%.

American population: 1950, white, 90%; 2006, white, 65% (or less); 2050, white, less than 50%; 2100, white, 97%...if WNs have anything to say about it...otherwise, less than 15 %.

Not genocide, Globus? My fingers hesitate to touch the keyboard lest I start a flame war with you. #&&*%?@

[Globus]

[Globus]

Then why is the issue not freely debated?

Irrelevant diversion.

Once major historical events are proven there is no need to "debate" them. Deniers aren't "debating" anything. They are simply lying and denying what has long been established.

You do debate whether WWII occurred?

Why do holocaust denial laws exist in many[but not all] western countries?

They do not exist in anywhere near all western countries. Get your facts straight. And the laws exist because some nations properly recognize that the denial of the Holocaust is simply a rallying point for the kind of extremism and hatred that brought disaster to Europe under Nazi Germany. They find it dangerous to civil life.

But denial is not debate.

Why don`t the jews campaign to reverse the legislation so that free debate can occur?

Why don't the non Jews who passed the legislation reverse it? The answer is they want the laws. It is only a figment of your antisemitic imagination that these laws exist because of Jews.

I am not convinced by the claims of the holohaux

Nobody cares what somebody like you is convinced by. You're delusional.

[Globus]

Defending the (non) rights of illegal invaders,

Typically dishonesty from you. You haven't cited a single case in which an illegal immigrant was defended by these organizations who like to lie about.

I believe I have proven my point sufficiently enough.

Say it to yourself often enough and you might belief it. I believe I've shown you have your prejudices, and that you use them as a substitute for thinking.

[Globus]

World population: 1930, white, 33%; 2006, white, 10%; 2100 (projected), white, less than 5%.

American population: 1950, white, 90%; 2006, white, 65% (or less); 2050, white, less than 50%; 2100, white, 97%...if WNs have anything to say about it...otherwise, less than 15 %.

[quote]Not genocide, Globus?

If you think you made the first argument for genocide, you're more challenged between the ears than I thought!

[Globus]

I have little need to read any more jewish myths,

Then your abject ignorance partly explains why you say such stupid things as this. The history is what historians have shown it to be. Your fantasies about Jewish myths are just that, your fantasies.

The jews claim that 6,000,000 of their kind were exterminated during a period lasting but a few years.

No they don't. Historians do. Once again, your antisemitic fixation causes you to lie about the basic facts.

What they do not explain is HOW Germany could possibly accomplish the disappearance of so many people in such a short time

Many millions more than that disappeared in the same timeframe of WWII.

Yet incredibly even the jews` own international census figures

There is no such thing. Only countries do censuses. And they show a loss of close to 6 million Jews.

I see that the numbers of alleged losses at the Auschwitz work camp seem to be going down all the time.

What you see are lies you cut and pasted from a denier website.

Those are not historians figures and many are simply lies.

Do you have any formal education?

[Globus]

Yes I agree they died of diseases brought on by thier own filth

Yeah, you'd have been able to keep in a Nazi hell hole with no change of clothes, little running water, and no soap.

Guess who the filth is?

[Starr]

Globus don't you think you could argue your points just a little better without constantly falling back on words like racist, bigot, anti-semite, hater,etc.? You do realize that when someone tosses out labels and names like that it makes it appear to others that they are covering up for the fact that they don't have anything of much substance to say? You will notice in a debate on television for example, when someone throws those words out, the person who the words are used against will then get off of the topic they were on and will defend themself against that charge? Those labels work very well in many instances, but not here, so why do you continue with this?(I have asked the same thing of the kind of people who throw out a phrase like "you are a jew" constantly)It is an annoyingly poor form of debate.

[Globus]

Globus don't you think you could argue your points just a little better without constantly falling back on words like racist, bigot, anti-semite, hater,etc.?

I don't know what could possibly make you think that your non arguments require anything more than pointing out the errors of your thinking. That's been done. That your thinking merely reflects mindless prejudices is a fact.

Now stop pretending you've made anything like sound arguments. You shamelessly distorted issues of immigration by conflating them with issues of race. You lied about certain organizations having agendas other than what they are. You made the ridiculous association between an individual's prejudices and the organization he works for--precisely because you had nothing to support your claim.

So spare me childish complaining.

[eggheadbanga]

Whether Starr is right or wrong is beside the point, Globus. It isn't terribly effective to be constantly using words like 'racist, bigot, anti-semite, hater' indiscriminately. It doesn't help get your point across.

[Globus]

Whether Starr is right or wrong is beside the point, Globus. It isn't terribly effective to be constantly using words like 'racist, bigot, anti-semite, hater' indiscriminately. It doesn't help get your point across.

They are not used indiscriminately. When they are used, they are appropriate and accurate.

[Burrhus]

[QUOTE=Burrhus]World population: 1930, white, 33%; 2006, white, 10%; 2100 (projected), white, less than 5%.

American population: 1950, white, 90%; 2006, white, 65% (or less); 2050, white, less than 50%; 2100, white, 97%...if WNs have anything to say about it...otherwise, less than 15 %.



If you think you made the first argument for genocide, you're more challenged between the ears than I thought!

You think?!

[Burrhus]

Whether Starr is right or wrong is beside the point, Globus. It isn't terribly effective to be constantly using words like 'racist, bigot, anti-semite, hater' indiscriminately. It doesn't help get your point across.

Listen to your handler, Globus, or you won't get your pay-check.

[Globus]

Listen to your handler, Globus, or you won't get your pay-check.

Why don't you listen to him? Or better yet, learn how to discuss the subject of these threads, rather than spreading your ignorant hatred?

[Starr]

[QUOTE=Globus]I don't know what could possibly make you think that your non arguments require anything more than pointing out the errors of your thinking. That's been done. That your thinking merely reflects mindless prejudices is a fact.

Calling someone a bigot,etc. and then preclaming them to be wrong, because they are, in your words a bigot,(this is how you generally seem to try to make your points) is not pointing out anything, other than perhaps that you are very closed minded and intolerant(yes, I used those words, and yes they do fit:p) of any differing opinions

Now stop pretending you've made anything like sound arguments. You shamelessly distorted issues of immigration by conflating them with issues of race. You lied about certain organizations having agendas other than what they are. You made the ridiculous association between an individual's prejudices and the organization he works for--precisely because you had nothing to support your claim.

This was not just about me, I don't bother arguing with you all that much. You use the same tactics with everyone.

You lied about certain organizations having agendas other than what they are.

Where did I do this. Just because you live in a world where only whites are racist and where non-white organizations exist only to combat the bigotry of evil whitey, does not make it true. The organization I talked about mostly here was Mecha. Are you honestly going to tell me they are not racist?(and gasp, anti-semitic, also)

[Aryan Imperium]

[Globus]Irrelevant diversion.

No less relevant to the the thread than you asking for proof that the holocaust didn`t happen or that the jews are pushing for more anti-denial legislation.
Why won`t you answer the question? It only takes a sentence or two.

Once major historical events are proven there is no need to "debate" them. Deniers aren't "debating" anything. They are simply lying and denying what has long been established.

Nothing has been `proven`. If you knew anything about history then you would realise that history is subject to a natural process of reanalysis, debate and research.
Why are you making an exception for the holohaux? Why are you applying special rules? If the `evidence` was so water-tight there should be no problem in allowing open debate. To outlaw debate on the subject as many `western` countries do is an indication of how weak the `evidence` really is.

You do debate whether WWII occurred?


Your question is ungrammatical, please try again and use English!

They do not exist in anywhere near all western countries. Get your facts straight. And the laws exist because some nations properly recognize that the denial of the Holocaust is simply a rallying point for the kind of extremism and hatred that brought disaster to Europe under Nazi Germany. They find it dangerous to civil life.

I never said that it was Europe wide but many major European countries such as Germany, Austria, France, Switzerland, Belgium, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Lithuania and Poland have denial legislation. There have been calls to have an EU wide holocaust denial law. In those countries where holocaust denial is still barely legal such as Britain there are instead very draconian race laws that can produce the same result.
Holocaust denial legislation is an infringement of article 19 of the Uninversal Declaration of Human Rights:

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.


But denial is not debate.


Why isn`t it debate? Who are you to set the terms and reference? If something that is regarded as an historical event did not in fact happen why shouldn`t I and others debate this freely without fear of persecution?

Why don't the non Jews who passed the legislation reverse it? The answer is they want the laws. It is only a figment of your antisemitic imagination that these laws exist because of Jews.


I suggest that you check out and contribute to my new thread:
http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17063 which you have thus far ignored.
Nobody has ever carried out a referendum in all those countries to determine what the populace `want`? Do you have access to people`s minds, ESP, etc?

Nobody cares what somebody like you is convinced by. You're delusional.


Plenty of people care and plenty agree with me. As far as your ad hominem comment is concerned you are not qualified to make that judgement.

[Aryan Imperium]

[Globus]Then your abject ignorance partly explains why you say such stupid things as this. The history is what historians have shown it to be. Your fantasies about Jewish myths are just that, your fantasies.


Once again you repeat the same displays of your ignorance. History is subject to constant revision in the light of new evidence or evidence coming to the fore that has previously been unknown or suppressed or previous `truths` being discredited.


No they don't. Historians do. Once again, your antisemitic fixation causes you to lie about the basic facts.



No the 6,000,000 myth originated from the jews themselves and that was 20 odd years before WWII. I intend to post a thread specifically about that issue very shortly. No doubt you will ignore that one too.

Many millions more than that disappeared in the same timeframe of WWII.
There is no such thing. Only countries do censuses. And they show a loss of close to 6 million Jews.


No, they do not show a `loss of 6,000,000 jews` and furthermore World jewry also kept their own detailed records and even these do not show an appreciable loss.


What you see are lies you cut and pasted from a denier website .
Those are not historians figures and many are simply lies.



Not at all, they are facts that can be researched from the original sources.

Do you have any formal education?

Do you mean `have I been subjected to state mind-conditioning`? Then yes but luckily I am one of the happy few that question the status quo and can think for myself.
But rest assured, I will ensure that my child will never be conditioned by your `teachers`.

[koch curve]

whats this education crap?


i prefer to think for myself and make up my own history >:|

[koch curve]

aryan imperium will teach his kids 2+2=5


why?


BECAUSE HE CAN

[Aryan Imperium]

aryan imperium will teach his kids 2+2=5


why?


BECAUSE HE CAN

On the contrary Koch, 2+2=4, always. I realise that the hebrew semitic mind cannot cope with the concept of the truth. After all why tell the truth when a lie will do?

[Aryan Imperium]

[koch curve]whats this education crap?


Don`t you have any?

i prefer to think for myself and make up my own history >:


Those are YOUR words, not mine. But hey why tell the truth when a lie will do, eh Koch?
Do you have a particular problem with people thinking for themselves Koch? Is that not allowed in your kosher world view?

[Captain Marinesko]

[Globus]

Once again you repeat the same displays of your ignorance. History is subject to constant revision in the light of new evidence or evidence coming to the fore that has previously been unknown or suppressed or previous `truths` being discredited.

What you are talking about is not revisionism. You are talking about claiming that a massive historical event spanning a continent was in fact an elaborate hoax that is being kept alive 60 years after the fact. THAT requires evidence, a LOT of evidence.






No the 6,000,000 myth originated from the jews themselves and that was 20 odd years before WWII. I intend to post a thread specifically about that issue very shortly. No doubt you will ignore that one too.

Actually it will take about five minutes to debunk, less for those posters here who know where to look.



No, they do not show a `loss of 6,000,000 jews` and furthermore World jewry also kept their own detailed records and even these do not show an appreciable loss.

Yeah, actually there are plenty of sources that show a loss of over 5 million to 6 million.




Not at all, they are facts that can be researched from the original sources.

We'll see when you post your WWI Holocaust claim.



Do you mean `have I been subjected to state mind-conditioning`? Then yes but luckily I am one of the happy few that question the status quo and can think for myself.

For yourself or what Zundel, Pierce, Strom, et al have been saying?

[Aryan Imperium]

[Captain Marinesko]What you are talking about is not revisionism. You are talking about claiming that a massive historical event spanning a continent was in fact an elaborate hoax that is being kept alive 60 years after the fact. THAT requires evidence, a LOT of evidence.



And plenty of evidence is to be found on this site alone.
Furthermore it is your side that is claiming that 6,000,000 kikes were fried in WWII and I would say THAT requires a lot of evidence. So far all we have is forged photographs and false `witness` testimonies. We all know about the ovens being installed AFTER 1945 by the Soviets.




Actually it will take about five minutes to debunk, less for those posters here who know where to look.
Yeah, actually there are plenty of sources that show a loss of over 5 million to 6 million.


How about posting them and I will post mine?



We'll see when you post your WWI Holocaust claim.


We will indeed nd I look forward to you posting on my thread.


For yourself or what Zundel, Pierce, Strom, et al have been saying?

No, for myself. It would be the easiest thing in the world to go along with the lie just for an easy life. There is nothing to be gained personally from me or the others being holohaux deniers, but everything to lose.

[Captain Marinesko]

Should I debunk the WWI holocaust claim now, or wait till it's posted?

I put it to a vote.

[Captain Marinesko]

[Captain Marinesko]

And plenty of evidence is to be found on this site alone.
Furthermore it is your side that is claiming that 6,000,000 kikes were fried in WWII and I would say THAT requires a lot of evidence.

The evidence was gathered, and it was proven. You also forgot about the far larger amount of Europeans that died as a result of the Holocaust and Nazi actions, but I find that WNs are willing to totally ignore the suffering of millions of whites when it comes to making Hitler look good.


So far all we have is forged photographs

Which forged photographs.


and false `witness` testimonies.

Which ones? The testimonies that convicted were not false.


We all know about the ovens being installed AFTER 1945 by the Soviets.

Uh who is "WE"? Maybe if "we" means "those of us who don't take the time to check up on claims made by fellow Nazis" that would be accurate, but I'm a Commie.






How about posting them and I will post mine?

Deal. You go first.





We will indeed nd I look forward to you posting on my thread.

I'm waiting.

[Aryan Imperium]

Should I debunk the WWI holocaust claim now, or wait till it's posted?

I put it to a vote.

Feel free to contribute to my new thread debunking the myth:

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17105

[Aryan Imperium]

[Captain Marinesko]The evidence was gathered, and it was proven. You also forgot about the far larger amount of Europeans that died as a result of the Holocaust and Nazi actions, but I find that WNs are willing to totally ignore the suffering of millions of whites when it comes to making Hitler look good.


No it hasn`t been `proven`. If it has been `proven` then why do the `provers` feel the need to silence their detractors with prison sentences in ZOG gulags?

Which forged photographs.
Which ones? The testimonies that convicted were not false.
Uh who is "WE"? Maybe if "we" means "those of us who don't take the time to check up on claims made by fellow Nazis" that would be accurate, but I'm a Commie.



This deserves and will receive a seperate thread.



Deal. You go first.


This deserves and will receive a seperate thread but it will take several days of preparation. It will not be a copy and paste job.



I'm waiting.

Then wait no longer and post on my thread!

[Captain Marinesko]

[Captain Marinesko]

No it hasn`t been `proven`. If it has been `proven` then why do the `provers` feel the need to silence their detractors with prison sentences in ZOG gulags?




There are similar laws against denying "Communist atrocities" in the Baltic states and Poland. I don't see you up in arms about that? Perhaps you should look into the rationale for creating those laws in the individual countries before pretending that this proves anything in your favor. You have yet to prove how all this evidence was faked- because it would have had to been.

Personally I think such laws are bullshit, but I'm not in charge....yet.