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OVERWATCH
11-29-2005, 01:24 AM
How to Take Down an F-117

November 21, 2005: The Serbian battery commander, whose missiles downed an American F-16, and, most impressively, an F-117, in 1999, has retired, as a colonel, and revealed many of the techniques he used to achieve all this. Colonel Dani Zoltan, in 1999, commanded the 3rd battery of the 250th Missile Brigade. He had search and control radars, as well as a TV tracking unit. The battery had four quad launchers for the 21 foot long, 880 pound SA-3 missiles. The SA-3 entered service in 1961 and, while it had undergone some upgrades, was considered a minor threat to NATO aircraft. Zoltan was an example of how an imaginative and energetic leader can make a big difference. While Zoltan’s peers and superiors were pretty demoralized with the electronic countermeasures NATO (especially American) aircraft used to support their bombing missions, he believed he could still turn his ancient missiles into lethal weapons. The list of measures he took, and the results he got, should be warning to any who believe that superior technology alone will provide a decisive edge in combat. People still make a big difference. In addition to shooting down two aircraft, Zoltan’s battery caused dozens of others to abort their bombing missions to escape his unexpectedly accurate missiles. This is how he did it.

--- Zoltan had about 200 troops under his command. He got to know them well, trained hard and made sure everyone could do what was expected of them. This level of quality leadership was essential, for Zoltan's achievements were a group effort.

--- Zoltan used a lot of effective techniques that American air defense experts expected, but did not expect to encounter because of poor leadership by the enemy. For example, Zoltan knew that his major foe was HARM (anti-radar) missiles and electronic detection systems used by the Americans, as well as smart bombs from aircraft who had spotted him. To get around this, he used landlines for all his communications (no cell phones or radio). This was more of a hassle, often requiring him to use messengers on foot or in cars. But it meant the American intel people overhead were never sure where he was.

--- His radars and missile launchers were moved frequently, meaning that some of his people were always busy looking for new sites to set up in, or setting up or taking down the equipment. His battery traveled over 100,000 kilometers during the 78 day NATO bombing campaign, just to avoid getting hit. They did, and his troops knew all that effort was worth the effort.

--- The Serbs had spies outside the Italian airbase most of the bombers operated from. When the bombers took off, the information on what aircraft they, and how many, quickly made it to Zoltan and the other battery commanders.

--- Zoltan studied all the information he could get on American stealth technology, and the F-117. There was a lot of unclassified data, and speculation, out there. He developed some ideas on how to beat stealth, based on the fact that the technology didn’t make the F-117 invisible to radar, just very to get, and keep, a good idea of exactly where the aircraft was. Zoltan figured out how to tweak his radars to get a better lock on stealth type targets. This has not been discussed openly.

--- The Serbs also set up a system of human observers, who would report on sightings of bombers entering Serbia, and track their progress.

--- The spies and observers enabled Zoltan to keep his radars on for a minimal amount of time. This made it difficult for the American SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses) to use their HARM missiles (that homed in on radar transmissions.) Zoltan never lost a radar to a HARM missile.

--- Zoltan used the human spotters and brief use of radar, with short range shots at American bombers. The SA-3 was guided from the ground, so you had to use surprise to get an accurate shot in before the target used jamming and evasive maneuvers to make the missile miss. The F-117 he shot down was only 13 kilometers away.

Zoltan got some help from his enemies. The NATO commanders often sent their bombers in along the same routes, and didn’t make a big effort to find out if hotshots like Zoltan were down there, and do something about it. Never underestimate your enemy.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20051121.aspx

OVERWATCH
11-29-2005, 01:48 AM
F-117 advanced stealth fighter/bomber

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/918/f1175vm.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f1175vm.jpg)http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9403/f117a8yz.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f117a8yz.jpg)http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9641/f117stealthb1vh.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=f117stealthb1vh.jpg)

+ obsolete SA-3 'Goa' Air Defence system from the 1960ies

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6528/sa355ip.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sa355ip.jpg)http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3313/sa338rg.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sa338rg.jpg)

=

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6093/f117down6bo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Sulla the Dictator
11-30-2005, 08:44 PM
Do you wonder if the Serbs feel like a bunch of Zulus or Indians when they consider the shoot down of two planes to be merit for bragging rights?

Banat
11-30-2005, 09:03 PM
Do you wonder if the Serbs feel like a bunch of Zulus or Indians when they consider the shoot down of two planes to be merit for bragging rights?

It definitely nourishes our ego. The same the fact that both the army and its equipment remained practically untouched after those 78 days. However, it's being destroyed now by reforms imposed by International Community. All the officers in position during NATO bombings who kept the army in one piece are now either retired of dismissed.

Sulla the Dictator
11-30-2005, 09:26 PM
It definitely nourishes our ego.


My sarcasm seems to have gone unnoticed. :(


However, it's being destroyed now by reforms imposed by International Community.


Then I suppose the lesson wasn't lost on Serbia.


All the officers in position during NATO bombings who kept the army in one piece are now either retired of dismissed.

They should count their blessings that they aren't standing before the hangman's noose.

Jimbo Gomez
11-30-2005, 09:39 PM
For what? The terrible crime of fighting against muslim invaders and terrorists? ;)

OVERWATCH
11-30-2005, 10:10 PM
List of NATO aircraft lost over the Balkans. (http://www.warinfo.org.yu/natodown.html)

Dances with Wolves
11-30-2005, 10:24 PM
My Hat is off to the brave Serbian Patriots that resisted the Great Satan. Too bad they didn't get more ZOG aircraft.

Dances with Wolves
11-30-2005, 10:26 PM
My sarcasm seems to have gone unnoticed. :(



Then I suppose the lesson wasn't lost on Serbia.



They should count their blessings that they aren't standing before the hangman's noose.


Yeah, sarcasm doesn't go over real well when your engris is so poor.

Ace Rimmer
11-30-2005, 10:27 PM
If this method really worked, how come only one was downed in 79 day long air raids and numerous F-117 flights all over Serbia?

Felix the Cat
11-30-2005, 10:28 PM
Russia Offers India $8 Billion Weapons Deal (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/12/140853.shtml)

Russian Engineers Admit Using F-117 Wreckage for Tests

Russia has offered to sell India a large package of weapons reportedly worth $8 billion. The Russian weapons deal includes 140 Sukhoi SU-30 strike fighters, 300 T-90 battle tanks, and a pledge to build a new 2,000-megawatt nuclear reactor at Kundankulam, Tamil Nadu.

The deal to erect the nuclear power plant was cleared by Russian President Vladimir Putin over U.S. objections. The nuclear power plant is slated to be completed by 2008.

Russia has already completed a major weapons deal with India to turn over the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov for $2 billion. The carrier deal includes 20 naval MiG-29K fighter jets and Ka-31 helicopters.

Russia has also offered four TU-22M Backfire bombers to the Indian navy for maritime strikes. The supersonic TU-22M Backfire is capable of carrying nuclear weapons and can launch the latest Russian cruise missiles including the SS-N-26 Yahont and SS-N-22 Sunburn.

The new offer to sell arms to India comes after quiet admissions from Moscow that Russian engineers have been testing the remains of a downed U.S. Air Force F-117 stealth fighter. Serb forces shot down the F-117 in 1999 during the Kosovo air campaign.

Russia Using F-117 Wreckage for Anti-Stealth

Senior Russian aerospace officials admitted that the F-117 was being used to test new anti-stealth technology and advanced missiles designed to shoot down U.S. aircraft. Russian researchers are testing components of a new air defense system against the F-117 remains.

The Russian anti-stealth tests include radio frequency seekers from surface-to-air missiles and proximity fuses for missile warheads.

In addition, a small number of Russian tactical aircraft have been modified with low-observable stealth technology in order to conduct airborne tests against the new air defense systems.

Russian missile makers Antey Industrial Corp. and the Almaz Central Design Bureau are using the F-117 and modified Russian-made stealth aircraft to test components for the next generation of Russian Surface to Air Missiles (SAMs).

The new lineup of weapons includes updated versions of the SA-10 and SA-20 missiles. In addition, Antey has developed an upgraded version of its SA-12 anti-missile system. The next generation of Antey and Almaz missiles reportedly can shoot down targets up to 250 miles away.

Almaz engineers claim its S-300PMU-2 system can locate and destroy stealth targets up to 60 miles away. Almaz is currently trying to sell the S-300PMU-2 to China.

China currently produces the Almaz SA-10 missile under contract as the HQ-9. The China National Precision Machinery Corp. also produces a variant of the Almaz SA-10 as the FT-2000. The FT-2000 is designed to engage and destroy U.S.-made AWACs and EA-6B Prowler electronic warfare aircraft.

Dances with Wolves
11-30-2005, 10:28 PM
Because the brave pilots were busy bombing and strafing civilians? Oh, they did get some horse drawn carts too.

Banat
11-30-2005, 11:05 PM
My sarcasm seems to have gone unnoticed. :(

No, it hasn't. I deliberately ignored it.

@88mmFlaK: Gee, I feel ashamed, you seem to have more data than me :o

In fact, I must admit that actually I never read anything about NATO 1999 bombings - all I know is what I got via conversations with various peoples who knew some of it, and they were plenty.

Banat
11-30-2005, 11:10 PM
If this method really worked, how come only one was downed in 79 day long air raids and numerous F-117 flights all over Serbia?

I don't know if it can be found in the source above, but the media said, and some people from the military told me exact the same, that 2 or 3 more were shot, but yet not downed. One managed to land in Bosnia, one supposedly in Macedonia and the third was suspicious if it was a F-117 or not.

Of course, me passing the story without solid proof means nothing but spreading rumors. But I can testify only that the people were dead serious while claiming it.

Sulla the Dictator
12-01-2005, 08:24 AM
or confirmed by sources in the Russian Ministry of Defense.

I remember Wehrmacht and his crowd posting claims by similar sources of thousands of American casualties in the opening days of the war in Iraq.

OVERWATCH
12-05-2005, 07:19 AM
I remember Wehrmacht and his crowd posting claims by similar sources of thousands of American casualties in the opening days of the war in Iraq.

I'm not familiar with what you're referring to, but just to humour you...

...everyone makes mistakes... some people post incorrect reports of American casualties, others build a case for war on grossly faulty "intelligence", declare "the end of major combat operations" and "mission accomplished" quite prematurely.

Ah, yes, that and the other blather about how "the Iraqis would be throwing flowers at us" and "within a month there will be a square in Baghdad named after George Bush" :rofl:

Which neoconman broke that wind?

http://lonbud.com/missacc.jpg