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View Full Version : Are you a racist or an antiracist?


Janus
12-16-2006, 06:53 PM
Please select the option which best describes your views. :)

Lily
12-16-2006, 06:54 PM
I consider myself Anti-racist.

MrAngry
12-16-2006, 06:55 PM
anti racist, is, was and ever shallbe

Leshrac
12-16-2006, 06:57 PM
anti racist, is, was and ever shallbe

Considering you're english, this is weird. No country on earth has more problem with non-whites than england lmfao.

You need to wake up :bitchfight:

Lily
12-16-2006, 06:59 PM
Considering you're english, this is weird. No country on earth has more problem with non-whites than england lmfao.

You need to wake up :bitchfight:
Do you live in England? Have you visited England, if so, when and where did you visit?

Leshrac
12-16-2006, 07:06 PM
Do you live in England? Have you visited England, if so, when and where did you visit?

Last year :)

I'll spare you all the arguing that was going on with this veil bullshit. As well as neighborhoods in london that looked more like saudi arabia than england, duh. :dance2:

Arminius
12-16-2006, 07:09 PM
Stupid poll. There is no other/indifferent option.

Janus
12-16-2006, 07:12 PM
There is no other/indifferent option. I asked members to choose the option which best described their views.

Aryan Imperium
12-16-2006, 07:12 PM
Stupid poll. There is no other/indifferent option.

`Indifferent`: that just sums up the apathetic self-hating good for nothing so-called `white` population that currently infests Europa and the Americas. There can be no sitting on the fence on this one Dragon Slayer. You either are for our race and therefore racist or you are part of the problem.

MrAngry
12-16-2006, 07:14 PM
Last year :)

I'll spare you all the arguing that was going on with this veil bullshit. As well as neighborhoods in london that looked more like saudi arabia than england, duh. :dance2:


I dont disagree taht there are issues in the UK, I disagree with the solutions that some have on here.

Heavens to Betsy
12-16-2006, 07:21 PM
False dichotomy, innit?

Starr
12-16-2006, 07:21 PM
The results could be interesting with all of the different people around here today.

For the people who are voting anti-racist, how far are you taking that? Do you actually believe, for example, that there are no differences between the races, ie. we are all the same?
Would You have no problem, whatsoever dating or marrying someone outside of your race? And how would others around you feel about it? Parents, grandparents,etc.?
How do you feel about the immigration problems we have now?

Janus
12-16-2006, 07:23 PM
False dichotomy, innit?I asked members to choose the option which best described their views.[...]
[...]

Lily
12-16-2006, 07:30 PM
The results could be interesting with all of the different people around here today.

For the people who are voting anti-racist, how far are you taking that? Do you actually believe, for example, that there are no differences between the races, ie. we are all the same? I recognise racial differences and do not believe that we are 'all the same' however I find them to be insignificant. A far more important factor, and a more divisive factor is culture in my opinion
Would You have no problem, whatsoever dating or marrying someone outside of your race?
I would rather marry someone of my culture. However I do have my preferences when it comes to appearance.
And how would others around you feel about it? Parents, grandparents,etc.?
I shouldn't think they'd care too much. If they did they would certainly never voice it.
How do you feel about the immigration problems we have now?
I recognise that there is problems with immigration. I think the laws surrounding it should be far more stringent and that there should be a higher emphasis on assimilation. I have no sympathy for illegal immigrants and think they should be removed from the country in which they are residing illegally.

MrAngry
12-16-2006, 07:31 PM
The results could be interesting with all of the different people around here today.

For the people who are voting anti-racist, how far are you taking that? Do you actually believe, for example, that there are no differences between the races, ie. we are all the same?
Would You have no problem, whatsoever dating or marrying someone outside of your race? And how would others around you feel about it? Parents, grandparents,etc.?
How do you feel about the immigration problems we have now?


Good post Starr.

I dont believe there are fundamental differences between races, only minor colour, physical attributes and the like. Culturally we are all different, even between whites, French and English for example.

I dont have any issues with anyone marrying anyone else, I dont even mind people having preferences, I prefer brunettes for example.

My family are pretty much free thinking and tolerant, my Grandmother on my fathers side was a little prejudiced against Indians and blacks as I recall.

I feel that there are immense immigration issues in the UK and the US, however I still believe that immigration is a neccesity, it hould be controled to meet the needs of the host nation, and the immigrants should be encouraged to integrate regardless of colour.

Heavens to Betsy
12-16-2006, 07:31 PM
I asked members to choose the option which best described their views.


Yes but neither describes my views. I'm 'not racist', I'm not 'anti-racist'.

Sandee
12-16-2006, 07:31 PM
Hmm. I'm more into cultural awareness and I recognise racial and cultural differences. I don't really consider myself a racist nor an antiracist. I'm just somewhat conservative when it comes to dating/marriage. I've been labelled a racist though (by other antis before).

It's more of a stance. At times my views could be considered racist but other times, not.

Aryan Imperium
12-16-2006, 07:33 PM
The results could be interesting with all of the different people around here today.

For the people who are voting anti-racist, how far are you taking that? Do you actually believe, for example, that there are no differences between the races, ie. we are all the same?
Would You have no problem, whatsoever dating or marrying someone outside of your race? And how would others around you feel about it? Parents, grandparents,etc.?
How do you feel about the immigration problems we have now?

Good question Starr. Many of them like Mr Panic Attack are quite happy to have the token nigger friend but the real test would be whether they would allow their daughter to open their legs for a coon. Something to be proud of-nigglet grandchildren!!:rofl:

Janus
12-16-2006, 07:35 PM
Yes but neither describes my views. With which do you have the greatest sympathy? :)

Aryan Imperium
12-16-2006, 07:35 PM
Hmm. I'm more into cultural awareness and I recognise racial and cultural differences. I don't really consider myself a racist nor an antiracist. I'm just somewhat conservative when it comes to dating/marriage. I've been labelled a racist though (by other antis before).

It's more of a stance. At times my views could be considered racist but other times, not.

A good Hindu marries within their caste[Varna-colour]. Ancient Aryavarta was the most racially conscious society in existence with it`s living Aryan caste system which has survived to this day.

Kriger
12-16-2006, 07:38 PM
I am a racist.

LadyApple
12-16-2006, 08:02 PM
Mr Angry, fighting over words from the internet is really stupid IMO. If Dulcinea wouldn't your daughter would you still want to fight for her? I don't see any other person stepping up. Besides Dulcinea needs to know that people on this board are racists and needs to toughen up like so many of us are told. Hell I've even been told I'll have a child with aids cause im not racist. lol Look over it. ;)

Geist
12-16-2006, 08:26 PM
@AI and Mr. Angry
The two of you need to cut it out now. This is in lowbrow so I can't close it myself or delete your posts, but I've reported it anyway. So take your bullshit to PMs.

MrAngry
12-16-2006, 08:42 PM
I have had some fun on here, but it so biased I cant be bothered anymore. Even serious threads degenerate because I have an "anti racist" view point. Unless you acquiesce to the racists in some way then you are doomed. I always seem to get drawn into the bun fight, a problem I cannot overcome, live up to the name. And it is a lonely argument too.

Most of the posts I have made with "rivals" have been tongue in cheek. Even Masty. But when I feel a sense of true hate and violence against some one its time to call it a day. There are online spats and then there is AI.

Geist
12-16-2006, 08:48 PM
Can neither of you read? Nobody cares about your little spat so stop ruining the thread.

Keystone
12-16-2006, 08:52 PM
I'm racist when the occasion calls for it, and anti-racist when it doesn't.

Burrhus
12-16-2006, 08:56 PM
anti racist, is, was and ever shallbe

Regardless of evidence previously unknown to you and/or rational arguments not previously encountered, MrA? Ever shall be. No new evidence or rational argument could possibly convince you that you are wrong, MrA?

That's dogmatic, irrational and closed-minded.

Well, you are MrAngry and not MrRational.

Just pointing out the obvious, MrA, not looking for a fight. But if your opinion will NEVER change, why should anyone debate the issue with you?

Masty
12-16-2006, 08:57 PM
Get a room, ya fuckin' homo's.

Burrhus
12-16-2006, 08:58 PM
Thats how you talk to a 17 year old girl is it. You are a fuck wit who needs a good kicking.:mad:

Tough love.

Thomas777
12-16-2006, 09:01 PM
Thats how you talk to a 17 year old girl is it. You are a fuck wit who needs a good kicking.:mad:

The 17 year old girl in my basement has a ball gag in her mouth, so we don't talk about anything.

Aryan Imperium
12-16-2006, 09:02 PM
The 17 year old girl in my basement has a ball gag in her mouth, so we don't talk about anything.

I will give you some rep tomorrow-given out too much in the last 24 hours but that remark cracked me up!:rofl:

MrAngry
12-16-2006, 09:05 PM
Regardless of evidence previously unknown to you and/or rational arguments not previously encountered, MrA? Ever shall be. No new evidence or rational argument could possibly convince you that you are wrong, MrA?

That's dogmatic, irrational and closed-minded.

Well, you are MrAngry and not MrRational.

Just pointing out the obvious, MrA, not looking for a fight. But if your opinion will NEVER change, why should anyone debate the issue with you?


I actually have moderated my views of racists, you are an example. I have been proven wrong on a few occaision, and racialism isnt the same as racism. I can be open minded.

The statement I made is true, I will never dicriminate based on colour or race. I will however expect Briton of all colour and heritages to uphold the British way of life and its traditions and for Britian to develop new and modern traditions. The issues of race and immigration in the UK are very real, where we differ i on how we would solve these issues.

Keystone
12-16-2006, 09:06 PM
and racialism isnt the same as racism.
It's the same damn thing.

Aryan Imperium
12-16-2006, 09:14 PM
I actually have moderated my views of racists, you are an example. I have been proven wrong on a few occaision, and racialism isnt the same as racism. I can be open minded.

The statement I made is true, I will never dicriminate based on colour or race. I will however expect Briton of all colour and heritages to uphold the British way of life and its traditions and for Britian to develop new and modern traditions. The issues of race and immigration in the UK are very real, where we differ i on how we would solve these issues.

`Britons` come in only one colour and that is WHITE!

ivory bill
12-16-2006, 09:16 PM
I'm racist when the occasion calls for it, and anti-racist when it doesn't.

You should be awfully proud to take such a principled stand on this important issue. I suggest you use your statement as your signiture, it's classic.

Keystone
12-16-2006, 09:25 PM
You should be awfully proud to take such a principled stand on this important issue. I suggest you use your statement as your signiture, it's classic.
It is a principled stand. It's discriminating, to boot. You should appreciate that.

| I, CWAS
12-16-2006, 09:28 PM
Neither. As a minority myself, I've grown tired of the political correct nonsense of race denial, but I don't have any racial, or in my case biracial, pride. I mostly just oppose nonsense from racists and anti-racists.

Fade the Butcher
12-16-2006, 09:47 PM
I'm a racialist.

Starr
12-16-2006, 09:50 PM
It is good to see there are, so far, more than twice as many people who classify themself as "racist":dance2:

Masty
12-16-2006, 09:55 PM
I'm anti-anti racist.....

LastResort56
12-16-2006, 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by | I, CWAS
Neither. As a minority myself, I've grown tired of the political correct nonsense of race denial, but I don't have any racial, or in my case biracial, pride. I mostly just oppose nonsense from racists and anti-racists.

Can you elaborate please on what you would consider race denial.

Lily
12-16-2006, 10:02 PM
Neither. As a minority myself, I've grown tired of the political correct nonsense of race denial, but I don't have any racial, or in my case biracial, pride. I mostly just oppose nonsense from racists and anti-racists.
This raises a good point. I'd like to make it clear that I do find people who deny all racial differences absolutely ridiculous, and I am not keen on political correctness either. Saying 'black coffee' is racist? Oh please. (Yes I have been accused of racism for this before :confused:)

Keystone
12-16-2006, 10:08 PM
It is good to see there are, so far, more than twice as many people who classify themself as "racist":dance2:
That depends on what is meant by "racist" or "racialist".

Knee-jerk? Hitler-lover? The pseudo-scientific poser who hides behind "eugenics'? The fed-up working person? The college kid/world dictator who's never been in any danger from minorities except on the internet?

LastResort56
12-16-2006, 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by Dulcinea
This raises a good point. I'd like to make it clear that I do find people who deny all racial differences absolutely ridiculous, and I am not keen on political correctness either. Saying 'black coffee' is racist? Oh please. (Yes I have been accused of racism for this before )

Really? I assumed blacks liked it when they are reffered to as some form of food or drink. There is this one "gansta" black woman I talk to occasionally and she calls her boyfriend 'dark chocolate'. Its really bizarre.

Arrow Cross
12-16-2006, 10:13 PM
Any person, who doesn't want his race / culture / nation to be extinct is a 'racist' by today's word. Although the word itself is so absurd, it didn't even exist before the XXth Century. Artificial, because it presents a natural trait as something 'evil'.
So ja, I'm a racist, and I'm also an eater, a drinker and a breathtaker.
Stone me for it.

Starr
12-16-2006, 10:14 PM
Saying 'black coffee' is racist? Oh please. (Yes I have been accused of racism for this before )

Are you kidding?:rofl:

I have heard a few people say that referring to "the white house" is racist.:rofl: I guess, to properly reflect our diverse society it should be known as either "the rainbow house" or "the house of many colors"

Lily
12-16-2006, 10:18 PM
Are you kidding?:rofl:

I have heard a few people say that referring to "the white house" is racist.:rofl:
:o No I'm not! I couldn't believe it, the guy launched it to a right tirade as well, right in the middle of the common room. I told him to piss off because my coffee was getting cold. :dance2:

Janus
12-16-2006, 10:20 PM
I told him to piss off because my coffee was getting cold. :dance2:You are my kind of lady. :)

[...]

Halo
12-16-2006, 10:59 PM
Quicker an anti-racist than a racist. Altough I am firm in my race counsciessness and xenophobia I will not go as far as to believe the lie that is that of superior races.

bardamu
12-16-2006, 11:02 PM
The poll is faulty, as "racist" is a loaded orwellian term. I am for the continuation of western man. I am the ultimate good guy willing to sacrifice for the good of my group, born and yet to be born. "Racist" is an ugly term, just like "nigger".

| I, CWAS
12-16-2006, 11:07 PM
Can you elaborate please on what you would consider race denial.


The denial that there are racial differences or opposition to race based research. I am baffled at how anyone can adhere to the nonsense that all races are essentially the same and race is purely a social construct.

Ahknaton
12-16-2006, 11:19 PM
The poll is faulty, as "racist" is a loaded orwellian term. I am for the continuation of western man. I am the ultimate good guy willing to sacrifice for the good of my group, born and yet to be born. "Racist" is an ugly term, just like "nigger".
I agree but "racist" is still the closer of the two in my case. Most people would label my views racist, even if I took pains to present them in the most favourable light.

bardamu
12-16-2006, 11:23 PM
I agree but "racist" is still the closer of the two in my case. Most people would label my views racist, even if I took pains to present them in the most favourable light.

We need to fight the good fight on all fronts and this includes their labels for us, imo.

Vasily Zaitsev
12-16-2006, 11:39 PM
I hope MrAngry and Aryan Imperium find a nice secluded spot to have a knife fight. That way they can both bleed out with nobody around to help them.

Vasily Zaitsev
12-16-2006, 11:41 PM
Race exists and should be taken into account when creating policy or strategy.

It should not be, however, the focus of a movement or a government. It is but one factor among many constituting the material conditions that dictate decisions.

Ahknaton
12-16-2006, 11:42 PM
I hope MrAngry and Aryan Imperium find a nice secluded spot to have a knife fight. That way they can both bleed out with nobody around to help them.
One of our other UK Phorites should catch it on camera. This could be the next BumFights!

Burrhus
12-17-2006, 12:02 AM
Yes but neither describes my views. I'm 'not racist', I'm not 'anti-racist'.

Your assertion is contrary to the law of the excluded middle, P ∨ ~P. Given some definition of racist you must be either racist or anti-racist.

You could assert that both terms lack a semantic referent, that is, there are no such things as racists or anti-racists and therefore you can be neither. I doubt that that is what you wish to assert. If I am wrong, please correct me.

I suspect that what you mean to say is that given the available definitions of racist and anti-racist you find that neither applies to you. The burden then falls on you to define the terms, both of which do not decsribe your position on the question of race relations.

Let me assist you. A racist is one who believes that races are real human categories, his race is absolutely superior (somehow) to the other races, it is appropriate to treat people of other races differentially (commonly but incorrectly known as 'discrimination'), that he has negative feelings about other races ranging from hatred to aversion and he advocates policies towards other races ranging from extermination (the extreme) to segregation (the moderate).

An anti-racist is one who either does not believe that racial categories are real or if they are, they are not significant, that all races (if they are real) are equal at least 'morally' if not necessarily biologically, it is inappropriate to treat people of other races differentially, has positive or at least does not have negative feelings about people of other races and advocates a policy of legal equality and racial integration.

If those definitions are not satsfactory, please feel free to correct them. Otherwise they will stand for our purpose here.

Unfortunately, the common definition of a racist is much more simple. He hates people of other races, considers them absolutely inferior and wishes them ill. An anti-racist is then one who does not hate, consider inferior or wish ill on other races. These definitions are flawed in my opinion. While they do accurately describe some people in either class, they are not exhaustive.

I am a positive racist. Let me describe that position for you.

I believe that racial categories refer to real properties of sub-sets of homo sapiens and that they are significant both 'morally' and biologically. The word morally is in quotes because I am using it in a manner that is not common. I am not using it to refer a set of universally accepted or proposed principles of right behavior. I use it rather to refer to a set of rules about behavior which the various racially determined in-groups comprising homo sapiens have arrived at over the course of their evolutionary development which have proven successful in maintaining the in-group's existence. Morality is an in-group property and only tenuously and perodically applicable to out-groups. (When it serves the in-group's interests.)

While morality applies most appropriately to members of one's in-group that does not imply what the word's common, universal meaning would imply. It is not a license to hate or harm people of other in-groups (that would lead to unnecessary inter-group hostilty). It simply means that altruism and trust should be extended to members of one's own in-group and generally (not always) withheld from members of out-groups. Put more simply it means that one should prefer the welfare of one's own in-group to that of others.

Biologically, it seems quite obvious from the empirical evidence available that there are significant differences between the races. Assuming that one accepts the theory of evolution as valid, the process of natural selection has clearly resulted in racial variation as a result of reproductive success in different environments. The traits selected for by the evironments' varying contingencies are not necessarily, or generally, compatible with a change in environment. This applies equally to genetic, phenotypic and cultural/behavioral traits. If one rejects the theory of evolution, then debate on this point is moot and best avoided.

Which brings up the question of racial equality, superiority and/or inferiority. Note that I used the phrase "absolutely superior" above. I do not believe that any race is absolutely superior (or inferior) to another. It would be presumptuous of me to anticipate the course of evolution. Races are either superior or inferior to each other relatively with respect to the specific environments within which they were selected.

Africans make superior Africans and Europeans make superior Europeans. Either is relatively inferior when placed into the environment which selected for the other's biological and cultural traits. Whether or not different racial groups are absolutely superior or inferior is a question that can only be determined in the future by observing which ones have survived the process of natural selection on a global level.

As a positive racist I do not hate people of other races. I am often angry about there behavior and generally find them not to my liking due to the nature of their cultural differences from mine, but that is not hatred. It is simply that I, as all others do, prefer my own kind and to live in an environment that is suitable for expression of my culturally inherited behavior and preferences.

Also as a positive racist, I do not advocate the extermination of other races nor unprovoked hostilty towards them. I do not wish them ill nor do I approve of mistreating them. In fact I wish them well to the extent that their success does not impinge on the welfare of my in-group.

The irony of contemporary race relations is that it is the liberals and so-called anti-racists who have caused the most harm to black people in America (I will not address other locations here). It has been their mis-guided (or possibly nefarious) implementation of policies based on belief in racial equality which have brought so many black people in America to the sad and deplorable condition which they find themselves in.

The poverty, crime, illegitimacy, gangs, squalid living conditions, educational failure, anger and hopelessness found in the black under-class as well as the hostility between blacks and whites result from the liberal effort to create a racially integrated society in the face of the reality of the situation which makes that goal unachievable.

All that has been achieved by the...let's call it the civil rights movement (CRM)...has been the draining from the black community of its best members which has left it bereft of its potential leaders, professionals and wealth creators. These people have been more or less successfully integrated into the white community and are doing well for themselves. This gives anti-racists false hope that all black people can be successfully integrated. But they cannot be. The real biological and cultural differences between the races preclude that ever happening.

This brain-drain on the black community finds it in the condition described above. Without leaders to create businesses and jobs, without schools of their own where they can achieve a level of education suitable for them, without cultural figures who can inspire them to be the best black people that they can be instead of failed whites, without all of the necessary components of a viable culture they have fallen into a state of failure that I find deplorable and even criminal.

It is the liberals and so-called anti-racists who have produced this condition. I call them 'so-called' anti-racists because I believe that they are really the true racists in the most negative connotation of that word. It has been their actions, misguided perhaps (or not), which have brought the black people to the miserable state they are in. They are blind, willfully or ignorantly, to the harm that they caused both for the black and the white people of America.

I am as I have said a positive racist. I do not hate black people, I do not wish them ill, in fact I wish them well. I honestly believe that they would be better off in a segregated society where their best and brightest would live among them and work for the welfare of their own people. Even a cursory glance at pre-1965 black life will show that they had better lives then. They had stable communities and familiies, they had their own businesses supplying jobs, their own schools where they had only to compete with each other and which were not infested with gangs, violence and drugs, neighborhoods where they could be themselves and feel comfortable and watch over each other's children.

Yes, their material standard of living was lower than white people's but that difference was the result of their racial abilities and not white injustice. And even with that material disparity, the quality of life for blacks was better. Each in-group is responsible for its own welfare. It is not a moral duty, as described above, of one in-group to further the interests of another. And it is certainly not the task of the government to impose that duty on one in-group in its polity to its detriment and attempt to enrich the other at the first's expense (an attempt that has failed).

Segregation ought to be the policy advocated for by all people who care about both peaceful race relations and the welfare of black people. Separation will result in improved conditions for both white and black people. Looking honestly at the realities of racial differences is the best course for everyone who wants a rational solution to the racial problem that confronts us.

Positive racism is not about hating the other, it is about loving one's own and peaceful co-existence with the others...living apart.

Keystone
12-17-2006, 12:22 AM
burrhus---

Why do you type so much bullshit? Get to the fucking point.

Helios Panoptes
12-17-2006, 12:30 AM
burrhus---

Why do you type so much bullshit? Get to the fucking point.

You're kind of moody. You're usually all right, but once every month, you get a bit pissy. Are you on the rag or something?

Mentious
12-17-2006, 12:44 AM
"Racist" is a loaded, idiotic term.
Therefore "anti-racist" is just as loaded and idiotic.

I prefer to describe myself as "racially conscious." That wasn't an option in the poll.

"Racist" would be fine, if you meant in the positive sense of the word. :)

Just as a dog lover appreciates the varieties of dogs, I think a "race-ist" could be someone who appreciates the differences in the human types. In this vision a "racist" is a true lover of humanity, who doesn't want to see diversity disappear from the earth in the human realm, any more than dog and horse breeds.

To be a "racist" is, to me, to be a connoisseur of the races in their variety. I can see the positive traits in many races, Jews included.

I also have a special appreciation for my own kind, and feel they are a good cultural and spiritual fit for me. (Dvorak and orchestras push my buttons more than Snoop Dog.) I am glad this earth provides the opportunity to incarnate into different "tribes," different styles of life, etc.

I think all White people should try to become as racially aware as Jews are. Jews think we are stupid because we are not racially aware and cohesive like them.

Keystone
12-17-2006, 12:50 AM
You're kind of moody. You're usually all right, but once every month, you get a bit pissy. Are you on the rag or something?
I'm dandy. Thanks.

Burrhus should get to the point. He likes to feel himself typing, or something.

Keystone
12-17-2006, 12:56 AM
"Racist" is a loaded, idiotic term.
Therefore "anti-racist" is just as loaded and idiotic.

I prefer to describe myself as "racially conscious." That wasn't an option in the poll.

"Racist" would be fine, if you meant in the positive sense of the word. :)
I think that's a fair estimation. Unfortunately, choosing between the two camps is what the extremists at either end consider vital.

Most people defy pigeon-holing.

shanemac
12-17-2006, 01:10 AM
Good post Starr.

I dont believe there are fundamental differences between races, only minor colour, physical attributes and the like. Culturally we are all different, even between whites, French and English for example.


If you really believe this, please defend your belief on this thread, specifically about the scientific basis of racial equality...http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17625

If you are not willing to back up your belief, then your claim of racial equality can not be taken seriously.

Morpheus
12-17-2006, 01:20 AM
I'm not a racist.

I view the world from a non-racist perspective.

As I would like to see the world become less racist that would make me anti-racist (i.e. against racism).

As far as this thread is concerned it is turning into a flaming circle jerk, I'm just wondering how long that type of behavior will keep on and who will be the next person to encourage it. :snore:

Keystone
12-17-2006, 01:24 AM
I'm not a racist.

I view the world from a non-racist perspective.
That's because non-racist works for you. It would work for me as well if your more savage brethren would behave themselves. You don't have to live with them.

Morpheus
12-17-2006, 02:08 AM
That's because non-racist works for you. It would work for me as well if your more savage brethren would behave themselves. You don't have to live with them.

Correlating race with degeneracy is racist Keystone, no matter how you try to sugar coat your reasons for doing it.

bardamu
12-17-2006, 02:21 AM
There is no way of getting around the fact that racist is a term with negative connotations for practically everyone. Redefining it and making the term smell sweet in one's own mind and then accepting it as a label is a tactical error of the first order, because, obviously, the outside world is not aware of your sweet reinterpretation of the meaning of the word, instead, when one says "Yes, I am a racist.", you are only calling yourself an evil bastard in the eyes of the world.

LastResort56
12-17-2006, 02:21 AM
Originally Posted by Mansa Musa
Correlating race with degeneracy is racist Keystone, no matter how you try to sugar coat your reasons for doing it

Thats right Keystone and don't forget it. Even if you were to pull out stats on crime and point out the obvious on racial differences it still would be racist. No matter how you much you sugar coat it, they(antiracists) will vehemently oppose your logic and truth if it correlates race with degeneracy. Truth and reason is second to their idealogy.

delete
12-17-2006, 02:39 AM
I'm dandy. Thanks.

Do the women neuter the men at the moment of birth, in the country where you were born?

To be a dandy is even lower than beeing a jew. I have even done time to beat up guys like you, and it was worth every moment. :) :) :)

Keystone
12-17-2006, 02:51 AM
Thats right Keystone and don't forget it. Even if you were to pull out stats on crime and point out the obvious on racial differences it still would be racist. No matter how you much you sugar coat it, they(antiracists) will vehemently oppose your logic and truth if it correlates race with degeneracy. Truth and reason is second to their idealogy.
LOL.

I will try and do better in future! Nasty, racist, statistics.

Mentious
12-17-2006, 04:28 AM
There is no way of getting around the fact that racist is a term with negative connotations for practically everyone. Redefining it and making the term smell sweet in one's own mind and then accepting it as a label is a tactical error of the first order, because, obviously, the outside world is not aware of your sweet reinterpretation of the meaning of the word, instead, when one says "Yes, I am a racist.", you are only calling yourself an evil bastard in the eyes of the world.
I disagree. There are words that were once perjorative in society generally, which later became benign, then later beknighted as "progressive. One of these was "feminist." Another was "gay." Conversely, "White Supremacist" was once not such a shocking or unattractive term around 1940. During the first half of WWI Germans were noble and righteous in the American mind. (That's how the pro-Germany, anti-Czar newspapers wanted them to be.) During the second half, they were evil and depraved. (And the public followed like a dog on a leash.) It's all about who wins the propaganda war. The public mind is malleable (which our controllers know well). It can make all kinds of turns and flips.

When somebody says: "Are you a racist?" I always say, "Yes, if you mean that in the positive sense of the word."
The White mind is contorted into all kinds of strange shapes at the moment. It's bound to spring back to a new shape at any time.

Morpheus
12-17-2006, 05:35 AM
Thats right Keystone and don't forget it. Even if you were to pull out stats on crime and point out the obvious on racial differences it still would be racist. No matter how you much you sugar coat it, they(antiracists) will vehemently oppose your logic and truth if it correlates race with degeneracy. Truth and reason is second to their idealogy.


LOL.

I will try and do better in future! Nasty, racist, statistics.


Truth and reason are irrelavent to the point. The very fact that you seek to correlate such a thing makes you a racist. Once we are past that point we can enter into dialogue about whether or not your racist beliefs are true both on a fundamental level and a fact by fact basis, in which truth and reason come into play.

But until then anyone denying their racism, sugar coating it or whincing about the term racist is being dishonest and cowardly.

Nyx
12-17-2006, 05:40 AM
Please select the option which best describes your views. :)Other: Racialist.

Ahknaton
12-17-2006, 06:09 AM
Truth and reason are irrelavent to the point. The very fact that you seek to correlate such a thing makes you a racist. Once we are past that point we can enter into dialogue about whether or not your racist beliefs are true both on a fundamental level and a fact by fact basis, in which truth and reason come into play.
That's a strange way of looking at it. Wouldn't it be more rational to examine the facts first and then come to conclusions?

Morpheus
12-17-2006, 06:37 AM
That's a strange way of looking at it. Wouldn't it be more rational to examine the facts first and then come to conclusions?

I'm saying that the ideological stance and the truth are separate entities.

For instance God does not have to exist in order for a person to follow a monotheistic religion.

Whether God exists or not is irrelavent to the fact that a person who believes in him and follows a religious dogma is religious.

Like wise being racist or not is not about right or wrong. If you discriminate on the basis of race you are a racist, or have racial prejudices.

Now if you are right to hold those prejudices you can argue that your racism is not only justified but the most logical position for someone to stand on the issue, just as the person faced with proof for their God can feel justified in holding their faith (without proof both can atleast make an argument for their belief being more logical).

As it stands this very thread is yet another exercise in racist hypocrisy. Far too many racists are uncomfortable with their racism.

The people I mark as the racist hypocrites are those who sugar coat their racism, deny their racism, or the ever peculiar type that seeks to convince other people that everyone is racist.

The religious person who is secure in their religious beliefs accepts that others are not of their faith. They take the athiest at his word, when nothing else warrants doing otherwise, that he believes what he believes and does not try to convince him that he and everyone else is religious. They may argue that they are right, but doing so and convincing the other person that they secretly share your world view are two different things.

The person who percieves the world as being composed of racists and closet racists is insecure about their own racism and just as hypocritical as the other groups delving in hypocrisy.

Nyx
12-17-2006, 06:40 AM
Are you a racist or an antiracist?I think racialism can be divided into three categories:

(1) Ethnocentrism/Xenophobia ('racism')
(2) Organic Romanticism (attaches a spiritual significance to race)
(3) Scientific Racialism (value-neutral race-realism)

I consider myself to be a racialist of the third type.

Mentious
12-17-2006, 06:53 AM
I think racialism can be divided into three categories:

(1) Ethnocentrism/Xenophobia ('racism')
(2) Organic Romanticism (attaches a spiritual significance to race)
(3) Scientific Racialism (value-neutral race-realism)

I consider myself to be a racialist of the third type.
I'd be of the second type, friend. But I would want to add "aesthetic values" to the spiritual significance. Vaughn Williams: "Lark Ascending." Listen to that in a dark room and you can easily find out what really sets White men apart.

Burrhus
12-17-2006, 08:49 AM
I'm not a racist.

I view the world from a non-racist perspective.

As I would like to see the world become less racist that would make me anti-racist (i.e. against racism).

Please define the word racist, what it means to you. What are the characteristics of a racist? What does he believe and how does he behave?

Please do the same for non-racist and anti-racist.

Thank you.

Morpheus
12-17-2006, 09:31 AM
Please define the word racist, what it means to you. What are the characteristics of a racist? What does he believe and how does he behave?

Please do the same for non-racist and anti-racist.

Thank you.

I would consider someone to be a racist who is an advocate of Dictionary.com's Unabridged definition of racism:

Rac·ism

–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Non-racist = not racist

Anti-racist = against racism

The latter two definitions are virtually the same but anti-racism implies a form of activism. When I am debating racists online I am debating against their racist position meaning that I am taking an anti-racist stance.

When I make a decision that is not influenced by racism I am taking a non-racist stance (i.e. not being racist), but not necessarily opposing anyone in the process.

Burrhus
12-17-2006, 09:45 AM
There is no way of getting around the fact that racist is a term with negative connotations for practically everyone. Redefining it and making the term smell sweet in one's own mind and then accepting it as a label is a tactical error of the first order, because, obviously, the outside world is not aware of your sweet reinterpretation of the meaning of the word, instead, when one says "Yes, I am a racist.", you are only calling yourself an evil bastard in the eyes of the world.

If I abandon the word racist and call myself a racialist, that word will be demonized. If I give up racialist and use pro-white, that will be demonized. If I give up pro-white and use white preferentialist, that will be demonized. If I describe myself with any term other than one that is politically correct and indicates that I am willing to co-operate in the ongoing extinction of the white race, that word will be demonized.

I must take a stand sometime to demand that the label that I use to describe my position on race be accepted as I define it and not as my opponent defines it. If I allow my opponent to define me, he will define me out of existence. I am a racist and that is not a word that defines someone evil. The so-called anti-racists will not stop demonizing any term we use to describe ourselves until we either remain mute in the face of their anti-white propaganda or accept their position and give up caring about the continued existence of the white race.

That I will not do.

I am a positive racist. I do not hate other races, I do not wish to rule supreme over them, I do not wish to harm them or hinder them in any way in pursuit of their own welfare that does me no harm or hindrance.

I wish only to live in peace and separation from them.

Why do they want to live mingled amongst people who don't want them around?

If institutional evil racism is endemic in all or most white people, why don't they stay away from us?

Did they ever truly wish to integrate and join white society or was that just a ruse to move white people out their neighborhoods to provide room for them to expand?

Why do they still hate us after we have torn our society apart for 40 years trying to accommodate them?

Why do they continue to fail after all legal obstacles to success have been removed and positive legal policies put in place to assist them?

I am a racist of the positive variety. Positively. I will not back down on the position or the word. As racists show the world that we are decent, rational people, we will no longer be seen as "evil bastards in the eyes of the world."

Because we aren't.

Burrhus
12-17-2006, 09:47 AM
Thats right Keystone and don't forget it. Even if you were to pull out stats on crime and point out the obvious on racial differences it still would be racist. No matter how you much you sugar coat it, they(antiracists) will vehemently oppose your logic and truth if it correlates race with degeneracy. Truth and reason is second to their idealogy.

Second to? I think that "absent from" is more accurate.

Burrhus
12-17-2006, 09:50 AM
That's a strange way of looking at it. Wouldn't it be more rational to examine the facts first and then come to conclusions?

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

Excellent response.

Ahknaton
12-17-2006, 09:55 AM
I'm saying that the ideological stance and the truth are separate entities.
Yes, that's true, however in Keystone's example we are not talking about an "ideological stance" we are talking about the acknowledgement of objective crime statistics. You were trying to conflate the two by saying that acknowledgment that those statistics exist presupposes a racist worldview (in the ideological sense). Things are further complicated by the fact that "racism" encompasses both ideological stances (e.g. endorsing state-enforced discrimination) as well as non-ideological stances (e.g. acknowledging the scientific validity of racial concepts, whether you choose to act on them and support racist policies or not).
Like wise being racist or not is not about right or wrong. If you discriminate on the basis of race you are a racist, or have racial prejudices.
In practise you will be labelled racist even if you acknowledge certain facts that are objectively true, so it is about true or false as well as right or wrong in the moral sense.
As it stands this very thread is yet another exercise in racist hypocrisy. Far too many racists are uncomfortable with their racism.
I'm not uncomfortable with my racism. What I am uncomfortable with is that an honest acknowledgement of that fact is taken to mean implicitly signing on to a whole host of beliefs that I don't agree with. For example, I feel that if someone is a citizen of my country they have every right to equality before the law regardless of their race, however I do believe that immigration policy should discriminate on racial grounds to preserve the racial and ethnic makeup of my country and to exclude troublesome groups on a collective basis. Discrimination in immigration policies does entail some injustice to individuals of excluded groups who are law-abiding citizens, but I view this as a lesser evil compared to the social pathologies that result from accepting unassimiliable, crime-prone groups into the host nation. Also, there is no "right" to immigrate the way there is a right to a fair trial and equality before the law, so I don't see this form of racism as equivalent to racist policies that give some groups second-class citizen status based on their race.

Kriger
12-17-2006, 10:06 AM
If I abandon the word racist and call myself a racialist, that word will be demonized. If I give up racialist and use pro-white, that will be demonized. If I give up pro-white and use white preferentialist, that will be demonized. If I describe myself with any term other than one that is politically correct and indicates that I am willing to co-operate in the ongoing extinction of the white race, that word will be demonized.

I must take a stand sometime to demand that the label that I use to describe my position on race be accepted as I define it and not as my opponent defines it. If I allow my opponent to define me, he will define me out of existence. I am a racist and that is not a word that defines someone evil. The so-called anti-racists will not stop demonizing any term we use to describe ourselves until we either remain mute in the face of their anti-white propaganda or accept their position and give up caring about the continued existence of the white race.

That I will not do.

I am a positive racist. I do not hate other races, I do not wish to rule supreme over them, I do not wish to harm them or hinder them in any way in pursuit of their own welfare that does me no harm or hindrance.

I wish only to live in peace and separation from them.

Why do they want to live mingled amongst people who don't want them around?

If institutional evil racism is endemic in all or most white people, why don't they stay away from us?

Did they ever truly wish to integrate and join white society or was that just a ruse to move white people out their neighborhoods to provide room for them to expand?

Why do they still hate us after we have torn our society apart for 40 years trying to accommodate them?

Why do they continue to fail after all legal obstacles to success have been removed and positive legal policies put in place to assist them?

I am a racist of the positive variety. Positively. I will not back down on the position or the word. As racists show the world that we are decent, rational people, we will no longer be seen as "evil bastards in the eyes of the world."

Because we aren't.

This is an excellent and succinct summation of the major problems that a racist faces in this world. We have been tagged with definitions that do not apply to the majority of us. In the process, we need continually state over and over again: "Excuse me, this may be a definition of racist but this is not a definition of me". We even provide a more accurate definition only to have it refuted based on general misconceptions as opposed to facts.

Quite truthfully, Burrhus, if you were to start your own version of a pro-White newspaper, I and many others would contribute to its manifestation gladly.

MrAngry
12-17-2006, 10:08 AM
If I abandon the word racist and call myself a racialist, that word will be demonized. If I give up racialist and use pro-white, that will be demonized. If I give up pro-white and use white preferentialist, that will be demonized. If I describe myself with any term other than one that is politically correct and indicates that I am willing to co-operate in the ongoing extinction of the white race, that word will be demonized.

If you look at Mansa's posted definition of racist this does not classify you a racist in that sense of the word. If you have a preference then most people do.

I must take a stand sometime to demand that the label that I use to describe my position on race be accepted as I define it and not as my opponent defines it. If I allow my opponent to define me, he will define me out of existence. I am a racist and that is not a word that defines someone evil. The so-called anti-racists will not stop demonizing any term we use to describe ourselves until we either remain mute in the face of their anti-white propaganda or accept their position and give up caring about the continued existence of the white race.

Its like anything, there are deifnitions that one might not care for, I dont demonize words, as a person who is labeled "anti", I demonize actions and those who espouse those actions.

That I will not do.

I am a positive racist. I do not hate other races, I do not wish to rule supreme over them, I do not wish to harm them or hinder them in any way in pursuit of their own welfare that does me no harm or hindrance.

Here, here.


I wish only to live in peace and separation from them.

Why do they want to live mingled amongst people who don't want them around?

That was subjective, there are people who dont want them around, but I could say that about different groups in the UK, some are non white some are white.


If institutional evil racism is endemic in all or most white people, why don't they stay away from us?

Did they ever truly wish to integrate and join white society or was that just a ruse to move white people out their neighborhoods to provide room for them to expand?

IMO I dont think racism is endemic in anyone. You seem to be making general sweeping statement here the very thing you are against when it comes to being labeled a racist. In the UK I would transpose white with British society. In the US, IMO only, I believe it is an immigrant nation not an exclusively white society.

Why do they still hate us after we have torn our society apart for 40 years trying to accommodate them?

Why do they continue to fail after all legal obstacles to success have been removed and positive legal policies put in place to assist them?

This is again a sweeping generalisation, and if applied to all sections of the "failing" society then happy to debate the answers.


I am a racist of the positive variety. Positively. I will not back down on the position or the word. As racists show the world that we are decent, rational people, we will no longer be seen as "evil bastards in the eyes of the world."

Because we aren't.

Racists are predominately evil bastards unfortunately, however, as I have said before and now I'll say it again, there seem to be shades of racism. Not every racist will be seem as reasonable as you... :)

Burrhus
12-17-2006, 10:34 AM
I would consider someone to be a racist who is an advocate of Dictionary.com's Unabridged definition of racism:

Rac·ism

–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Non-racist = not racist

Anti-racist = against racism

The latter two definitions are virtually the same but anti-racism implies a form of activism. When I am debating racists online I am debating against their racist position meaning that I am taking an anti-racist stance.

When I make a decision that is not influenced by racism I am taking a non-racist stance (i.e. not being racist), but not necessarily opposing anyone in the process.

I am white and a racist. As to the (not your as asked) definition:

1) I do not believe that the white race is absolutely superior to other races or has the 'right' (whatever that means) to rule over other races.

2) I do not advocate for a government that fosters white superiority or rule over other races.

(To discriminate is not a transitive verb. It is an intransitive verb.)

3) I do not hate other races. To the extent that they do me harm, I tolerate them. If their behavior does harm me, I do not tolerate them.

Obviously I am not a racist by the definition that you provide. Yet I say that I am a racist. Clearly we are operating from two different and contradictory definitions of the word. As you claim not to be a racist and I do, would I not be in a better position to know what the term means.

Why should I accept your definition when it labels me as an evil person? I am not evil. You say that racists hate you. I say that I don't hate you. You say that I want to rule over you. I don't want to. You say that I think that I am superior to you. I say that I don't believe that in the absolute sense of the term. I am superior at being white and you are superior at being black. You say that I am intolerant but I say that I am not necessarily, it depends on what I am being asked to tolerate.

Why do you insult me by assuming that I do not mean what I say? Why should the anti-racists' or non-racists' definition of the word that I use to describe myself be given precedence over my own? How can we ever come to a rational solution to our racial problem if your side demonizes mine at the outset? Why should I bother to engage in discourse with someone who both assumes and asserts that I am operating in bad faith and who says that I am not what I say that I am?

MrAngry
12-17-2006, 11:49 AM
One of our other UK Phorites should catch it on camera. This could be the next BumFights!

Bumfight!? :rofl:

MrAngry
12-17-2006, 12:32 PM
If you really believe this, please defend your belief on this thread, specifically about the scientific basis of racial equality...http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17625

If you are not willing to back up your belief, then your claim of racial equality can not be taken seriously.

Originally Posted by MrAngry
Good post Starr.

I dont believe there are fundamental differences between races, only minor colour, physical attributes and the like. Culturally we are all different, even between whites, French and English for example.

Does that say that we are all the same?

shanemac
12-17-2006, 01:08 PM
Does that say that we are all the same?

Yes. I was talking about biological, not cultural differences. Anyone can learn to act a certain way according to culture. Biological differences are not transmutable.

So, I'll expect your post on that racial equality thread forthwith.

MrAngry
12-17-2006, 01:12 PM
Yes. I was talking about biological, not cultural differences. Anyone can learn to act a certain way according to culture. Biological differences are not transmutable.

So, I'll expect your post on that racial equality thread forthwith.


You are so masterfull.:) Give me the link to support your post and I'll respond OK? :)

Jimbo Gomez
12-17-2006, 01:19 PM
I deleted the flames. Gentlemen, you should know better than this. I can't stop you from settling this in real life, although I hope you won't, but please do not involve the rest of the forum into it.

@ Geist: good catch

MrAngry
12-17-2006, 01:25 PM
I deleted the flames. Gentlemen, you should know better than this. I can't stop you from settling this in real life, although I hope you won't, but please do not involve the rest of the forum into it.

@ Geist: good catch


I apolagise for my conduct at my age I should know better.

shanemac
12-17-2006, 01:25 PM
You are so masterfull.:) Give me the link to support your post and I'll respond OK? :)

If you mean masterful as in Master-race, then I'll have to agree with you ;)

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17625

Jimbo Gomez
12-17-2006, 01:51 PM
I apolagise for my conduct at my age I should know better.


Noone is in complete control of his emotions all the time.

Lily
12-17-2006, 04:19 PM
@ SANDMAN
The little boy in your avatar is so cute!!

(sorry for going off topic :p)

Richard Parker
12-17-2006, 05:35 PM
The results could be interesting with all of the different people around here today.

For the people who are voting anti-racist, how far are you taking that?

Well, I only ever need to think about it when posting on the Phora or MSF. :)


Do you actually believe, for example, that there are no differences between the races, ie. we are all the same?

Of course the races are not the same, my eyes alone tell me that. But the similarities between human beings are more important than the differences between the racial groups.

Would You have no problem, whatsoever dating or marrying someone outside of your race?

Married outside my racial group. Have dated both inside and outside my racial group. Race was never a thought.


And how would others around you feel about it? Parents, grandparents,etc.?

My parents are indifferent to race. They are highly integrated into Canadian values and always liked the women I brought home (Maybe I only ever dated nice and polite girls?).

I would guess that my grandparents might been concerned in some hypothetical cases, e.g. if I ended up with a black or a Muslim. But they were loving grandparents who would no doubt have come around eventually.

With my Japanese wife I don't think they would have had an issue in the first place. Sadly they were gone by the time I was married.


How do you feel about the immigration problems we have now?
They need to be tougher on illegal immigration. It is not clear how immigration is a problem apart from this. North America has always been populated by successive waves of immigrants.

Perhaps they should screen better for education, and maybe have some kind of testing for adaptability, to reduce the risk of forming ghettos or underclasses. Assimilation should be encouraged and facilitated.

हिन्दुस्तान
12-17-2006, 05:37 PM
Please select the option which best describes your views. :)

I am neither.

My ideology is simple....

Sweden for the Swedish, England for the english, Japan for the Japanese etc

You get the idea.

Billy Score
12-17-2006, 06:05 PM
I picked "racist" but this is only because i am not an anti racist. I hate all races to some degree. Despite living in an extremely nonwhite area, i find that all the people i hate in person are all white. i can't hold grudges against asians, and i don't know blacks in person really, save a few that are alright.

Ahmadinebobina
12-17-2006, 06:25 PM
More 'racist' than 'anti' but still not 'racist'. Being against mass immigration is really not a racial issue.

Aryan Imperium
12-17-2006, 06:31 PM
I am neither.

My ideology is simple....

Sweden for the Swedish, England for the english, Japan for the Japanese etc

You get the idea.

Most people would say that is a racist standpoint, not that I am disagreeing with you of course!:)

Winston
12-17-2006, 06:35 PM
Being against immigration and wishing to keep England English, France French, Japan Japanese, etc, is really the extent of my racism too. It is racism as a reaction. It is defensive. It is normal and it is just.

MrAngry
12-17-2006, 06:36 PM
I am neither.

My ideology is simple....

Sweden for the Swedish, England for the english, Japan for the Japanese etc

You get the idea.


But havent you have lived in Australia and England?

हिन्दुस्तान
12-17-2006, 06:42 PM
Most people would say that is a racist standpoint,

True, but to the Lefties everything is "racist" these days.

But havent you have lived in Australia and England?

Why do you think I moved to India?

il ragno
12-17-2006, 06:46 PM
I like to think of myself as an anti-anti-racist.

You still get pilloried, but at least there's a pause of a few beats before the invective is launched.

MrAngry
12-17-2006, 07:26 PM
True, but to the Lefties everything is "racist" these days.



Why do you think I moved to India?


Why did you move to India? And why did you live in Australia and England at all?

हिन्दुस्तान
12-17-2006, 07:46 PM
Why did you move to India? And why did you live in Australia and England at all?

I was born in Australia. I can't help being born in a foreign land.

I moved to England at the age of 18 for three years because I was awarded a scholarship at Durham university to study Economics. This was an oppurtunity I would be extremely foolish to turn down.

After graduating I went on "holiday" to Mumbai and was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed it and felt at home here. So I decided to stay back with my grandparents while my parents went back to Australia. The transition was easy because I already have family over here who are luckily quite affluent. I applied for jobs with all the top banks and thankfully got an internship at Deutsch bank.

The rest is history.

MrAngry
12-17-2006, 07:57 PM
I was born in Australia. I can't help being born in a foreign land.

I moved to England at the age of 18 for three years because I was awarded a scholarship at Durham university to study Economics. This was an oppurtunity I would be extremely foolish to turn down.

After graduating I went on "holiday" to Mumbai and was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed it and felt at home here. So I decided to stay back with my grandparents while my parents went back to Australia. The transition was easy because I already have family over here who are luckily quite affluent. I applied for jobs with all the top banks and thankfully got an internship at Deutsch bank.

The rest is history.

And your parents, why didnt they stay in India?
You are very fortunate, I think its easy to make judgements on race from a privelaged position. Your western education and affluent family have secured your future in the country of your choice. I wonder where you'd be living if you'd failed your degree and what view point you would have had.

BritishMuslim
12-17-2006, 08:00 PM
"From India to Spain, the brilliant civilization of Islam flourished. What was lost to christendom at this time was not lost to civilization, but quite the contrary...

"To us it seems that West-European civilization is civilization, but this is a narrow view."

racists fail to understand their own history! europe will return to islam anyway so why fight?

TruthSeeker
12-17-2006, 08:05 PM
"From India to Spain, the brilliant civilization of Islam flourished. What was lost to christendom at this time was not lost to civilization, but quite the contrary...

"To us it seems that West-European civilization is civilization, but this is a narrow view."

racists fail to understand their own history! europe will return to islam anyway so why fight?

We will fight you. Be rest assured of that. :)

हिन्दुस्तान
12-17-2006, 08:06 PM
And your parents, why didnt they stay in India?
You are very fortunate, I think its easy to make judgements on race from a privelaged position. Your western education and affluent family have secured your future in the country of your choice. I wonder where you'd be living if you'd failed your degree and what view point you would have had.

I've tried convincing my parents to come home countless times and have failed every time. They are set in their ways.

My western education means squat. I am the only person on the Internship programme who has had a Western education and there are plenty of people who have had western educations and have failed to get a postition at deutsch bank. What did get me the job was the three years I worked my bollocks of when studying for the Economics degree. Do you honestly think they hand jobs out just because you studied at an English university? If so you are more naive then I thought. Not only did I have to go through five stages of interviewing but I also had to pass a three hour psychometric test.


I wonder where you'd be living if you'd failed your degree and what view point you would have had.

I don't see how me failing my degree has anything to do with this? :confused: If I had failed my degree my political views would have remained the same as they do today.

BritishMuslim
12-17-2006, 08:09 PM
We will fight you. Be rest assured of that. :)

you do not fight anymore like old europe. you are now weak.

हिन्दुस्तान
12-17-2006, 08:12 PM
"From India to Spain, the brilliant civilization of Islam flourished. What was lost to christendom at this time was not lost to civilization, but quite the contrary...

"To us it seems that West-European civilization is civilization, but this is a narrow view."

racists fail to understand their own history! europe will return to islam anyway so why fight?

Poor attempt at a wind up.

Must try harder next time my Mussulmani friend

TruthSeeker
12-17-2006, 08:14 PM
you do not fight anymore like old europe. you are now weak.

I assure you Europe has not forgotten. The more Muslim terrorists brutalize Europe, the more they wish to disembowel you. Do not underestimate human hatred. You think you are tough, you are not. When the Western World (not only Europe mind you) is done with you, they will turn you into fertilizer, Literally. :)

BritishMuslim
12-17-2006, 08:16 PM
I assure you Europe has not forgotten. The more Muslim terrorists brutalize Europe, the more they wish to disembowel you. Do not underestimate human hatred. You think you are tough, you are not. When the Western World (not only Europe mind you) is done with you, they will turn you into fertilizer, Literally. :)

this is so stupid we riot and bomb you and you send us lawyers, you are weak and have no future, your men are even afriad of us in the steet is this tough? strong?

TruthSeeker
12-17-2006, 08:17 PM
this is so stupid we riot and bomb you and you send us lawyers, you are weak and have no future, your men are even afriad of us in the steet is this tough? strong?

People change. People hate. And People Kill.

Leshrac
12-17-2006, 08:22 PM
this is so stupid we riot and bomb you and you send us lawyers, you are weak and have no future, your men are even afriad of us in the steet is this tough? strong?

You obviously forget the ancient of your own people getting torched alive for revenge

Like said the other guy :

"WE BLEW UP 2 OF YAR BUILDINGS !§"
"OooOOoooh... and we blew up two of your COUNTRIES"

haha

TruthSeeker
12-17-2006, 08:23 PM
You obviously forget the ancient of your own people getting torched alive for revenge :)

Like said the other guy :

"WE BLEW UP 2 OF YAR BUILDINGS !§"
"OooOOoooh... and we blew up two of your COUNTRIES"

haha :rofl:

I believe you're referring to Carlos Mencia. :rofl:

Leshrac
12-17-2006, 08:26 PM
your men are even afriad of us in the steet is this tough? strong?

Afraid of you in the streets ? Talk about being tuff going 5+ on one. You inferior muslim shits are animals, your definition of fair fight is outnumbering people five or more to one, because you know you would get the crap kicked out of you if you dared to go ONE ON ONE.

Haha good old times when i beat the living crap out of this wanna-be thug :viking: :rofl: :bbbat: :)

हिन्दुस्तान
12-17-2006, 08:27 PM
"From India to Spain, the brilliant civilization of Islam flourished. What was lost to christendom at this time was not lost to civilization, but quite the contrary...

"To us it seems that West-European civilization is civilization, but this is a narrow view."

racists fail to understand their own history! europe will return to islam anyway so why fight?

What has happened to Muslim rule in India & Spain?

Please refresh my memory as I seem to have forgotten :confused:

MrAngry
12-17-2006, 08:31 PM
I've tried convincing my parents to come home countless times and have failed every time. They are set in their ways.

My western education means squat. I am the only person on the Internship programme who has had a Western education and there are plenty of people who have had western educations and have failed to get a postition at deutsch bank. What did get me the job was the three years I worked my bollocks of when studying for the Economics degree. Do you honestly think they hand jobs out just because you studied at an English university?

I didnt say this, what I was impying, was that you enjoyed the benefits that these countries had to offer, what did you give back? You are privelaged and have wealthy relatives, I am truly pleased for you, but why did your perant choose to leave India?


I don't see how me failing my degree has anything to do with this? :confused: If I had failed my degree my political views would have remained the same as they do today.

No degree, no job at Deutchebank, and what of other Indian families in England and Australia, should theybe forced back home? They dont have your "choices".

Leshrac
12-17-2006, 08:36 PM
racists fail to understand their own history! europe will return to islam anyway so why fight?

AHAHAHAH. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :rofl:

Charles martel, camelfucking paedophile muslim. hahaha :rofl:

By the way, your prophet was an incestuous shit-eater. haha xD

MrAngry
12-17-2006, 08:37 PM
AHAHAHAH. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :rofl:

Charles martel, camelfucking paedophile muslim. hahaha :rofl:

By the way, your prophet was an incestuous shit-eater. haha xD



Dont wate your time, he's a troll

Leshrac
12-17-2006, 08:39 PM
Dont wate your time, he's a troll

I like to flame trolls :)

The simple idea of imaginating his sorry ass furious behind his screen because i torched his prophet cracks me up :rofl:

Draco
12-17-2006, 08:40 PM
If you're driving down a freeway late on Saturday night, and feel your car starting to rattle and sputter, and see the road divides into two choices.

One leads to the heart of a 95% black city, the other to the heart of a 95% white city.

Your car has about 1 mile of motion left in it, which ramp do you take?

I use this example continuously, and have yet to see anyone take the black city.

Racism is common sense.

P.S.

Hello Brandon/British Muslim.

हिन्दुस्तान
12-17-2006, 08:47 PM
I didnt say this, what I was impying, was that you enjoyed the benefits that these countries had to offer, what did you give back? You are privelaged and have wealthy relatives, I am truly pleased for you, but why did your perant choose to leave India?

I have to ask again, what has me giving anything back got to do with this conversation? :confused:

I don't doubt that I am in a privelaged position but I'm not going feel like I need to apologise for it. My parents (who are doctors) left India 36 years ago because there was a shortage of doctors in Oz and they were attracted to the $$$ the Australian government was offering to foreign doctors. As I said before they have built a Medical practice up from scratch and don't feel it is the right time to leave. Eventually I can see them coming back.



No degree, no job at Deutchebank, and what of other Indian families in England and Australia, should theybe forced back home? They dont have your "choices".

Yes they don't have my choices but that doesn't change my way of thinking.
I worked hard for that dregree. It wasn't like i won it in a raffle. Also I said nothing about removing people by force. You cannot force people to migrate but I do wish they would seriously think about relocating to the lands of their ancestors.

This is what I like to see...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5290494.stm

MrAngry
12-17-2006, 08:52 PM
I have to ask again, what has me giving anything back got to do with this conversation? :confused:

I don't doubt that I am in a privelaged position but I'm not going feel like I need to apologise for it. My parents (who are doctors) left India 36 years ago because there was a shortage of doctors in Oz and they were attracted to the $$$ the Australian government was offering to foreign doctors. As I said before they have built a Medical practice up from scratch and don't feel it is the right time to leave. Eventually I can see them coming back.

Yes they don't have my choices but that doesn't change my way of thinking.
I worked hard for that dregree. It wasn't like i won it in a raffle. Also I said nothing about removing people by force. You cannot force people to migrate but I do wish they would seriously think about relocating to the lands of their ancestors.

This is what I like to see...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5290494.stm


Its clear that you and your family are hard working people, :)

हिन्दुस्तान
12-17-2006, 08:54 PM
Its clear that you and your family are hard working people, :)

Thank you.

TruthSeeker
12-18-2006, 08:24 PM
you do not fight anymore like old europe. you are now weak.

I assure you Europe has not forgotten. The more Muslim terrorists brutalize Europe, the more they wish to disembowel you. Do not underestimate human hatred. You think you are tough, you are not. When the Western World (not only Europe mind you) is done with you, they will turn you into fertilizer, Literally. :)


this is so stupid we riot and bomb you and you send us lawyers, you are weak and have no future, your men are even afriad of us in the steet is this tough? strong?


People change. People hate. And People Kill.

Apparently, I can foresee current trends. :)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061218/ap_on_re_eu/europe_muslims

EU report: Muslims face 'Islamophobia' By BRIAN MURPHY, AP Religion Writer
Mon Dec 18, 7:50 AM ET

Muslims across Europe are confronting a rise in "Islamophobia" ranging from violent attacks to discrimination in job and housing markets, a wide-ranging European Union report indicated Monday.

The study, compiled by the European Monitoring Center on Racism and Xenophobia, urged European authorities to strengthen policies on integration. But it also noted that Muslims need to do more to counter negative perceptions driven by terrorism and upheavals such as the backlash to cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

The 117-page survey details the many divides between the EU mainstream and the estimated 13 million Muslims — now at least 3.5 percent of the 25-nation bloc's population — and seeks to offer a street-level view of the complexities blocking efforts to bridge the differences.

"The disadvantaged position of Muslim minorities, evidence of a rise in Islamophobia and concern over processes of alienation and radicalization have triggered an intense debate in the European Union," said Beate Winkler, director of the Vienna-based group.

The report reinforces the growing urgency of tackling religious tensions and suspicions in Europe.

During a trip to Turkey earlier this month, Pope Benedict XVI appealed for greater understanding between Christianity and Islam and sought to ease Muslim outrage over his remarks in September that cited a medieval emperor speaking about violence and Muhammad's teachings.

Last week, British Prime Minister Tony Blair called tolerance one of the "essential values" of his nation and denounced "hatemongers, whatever their race, religion or creed."

The report cited hundreds of reported cases of violence or threats against Muslims in the EU since 2004, including vandalism against mosques and Islamic centers, abuse against women wearing Islamic headscarves and attacks, such as a Somali family in Denmark assaulted by a gang carrying baseball bats emblazoned with swastikas and racist slogans.

The report, however, noted that "data on religiously aggravated incidents is collected on a limited scale." It noted that only Britain publishes a hate-crime list that specifically identifies acts against Muslims.

"Muslims feel that acceptance by society is increasingly premised on 'assimilation' and the assumption that they should lose their Muslim identity," Winkler said. Since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, many Muslims feel "they have been put under a general suspicion of terrorism."

Islamophobic incidents shot up 500 percent in Britain in the weeks after the July 2005 bombings of London's transit system, but decreased dramatically after authorities and religious leaders worked together to ease tensions, Winkler said.

"The key word is 'respect,'" she said. "People need to feel respected and included."

The report urged EU nations to develop more clear legal frameworks for Muslim cultural and religious institutions, including ways to make more public funds available to Islamic community groups and help train local imams.

The report also said Europe's Muslims are "often disproportionately represented" in poor housing conditions, unemployment statistics and in lower education levels.

Go fuck yourself British Muslim. It's the only thing you can do.

Isra'il Yahya
12-19-2006, 02:22 AM
Apparently, I can foresee current trends. :)

Go fuck yourself British Muslim. It's the only thing you can do.

He could become a Catholic like all of Spain's Moros did, or as the fashion is nowadays a Secular Humanist!

Dr. Gutberlet
12-19-2006, 02:37 AM
More of a misanthrope than a true racist. I prefer the company of whites, but even they tend to bother me after extended periods of dealing with them.

TruthSeeker
12-19-2006, 02:48 AM
He could become a Catholic like all of Spain's Moros did, or as the fashion is nowadays a Secular Humanist!

Perhaps. Even then, they would still be expelled as Spain's crypto-Muslim population was in 1609.

Björn
12-19-2006, 06:36 AM
I consider myself neither.

Anarch
12-19-2006, 03:17 PM
I consider myself neither.
I also consider myself neither.

Winston
12-19-2006, 03:29 PM
How does one who claims to be "neither" approach racial issues?

Richard Parker
12-19-2006, 03:35 PM
If you're driving down a freeway late on Saturday night, and feel your car starting to rattle and sputter, and see the road divides into two choices.

One leads to the heart of a 95% black city, the other to the heart of a 95% white city.

Your car has about 1 mile of motion left in it, which ramp do you take?

I use this example continuously, and have yet to see anyone take the black city.

Racism is common sense.

P.S.

Hello Brandon/British Muslim.

Yes, I would probably choose the white city.

I have also race-mixed extensively.

My sister once dated a decent black fellow, and I was totally cool with him.

So... am I a racist or not?

calvin
12-19-2006, 09:45 PM
I have met and worked with dozens of underclass Whites most of whom I got along fine with and many of whom I liked and respected, nevertheless, I have witnessed the behaviour of this class en masse outwith the neutral ground of the workplace and know that they are more violent, less economically capable and more prone to self-destructive instant gratification. I avoid, as do most people, the areas where this class dominate and places where this class congregate or seek recreation, as do most people. I think that what holds true for underclass Whites also holds true for Blacks as an ethnic group, so I wouldn’t choose to have Africans or Jamaicans in my country. I have a problem with Jewish ethnocentrism and think that Islam is hostile to the precepts of Western Civilisation. I don’t mind Orientals and non-Muslim Indians and don’t object to the assimilation of immigrants belonging to these ethnic groups, apparently this makes me a racist.

Heavens to Betsy
12-19-2006, 09:51 PM
How does one who claims to be "neither" approach racial issues?

I do it by ignoring the issue of race in so called 'racial issues'.
I don't thin a back child adopted and raised by white parents would have any more in common with a person of the same race growing up in sub-saharen africa that a white kid.
So called racial issues are in my opinion social and cultural issues.

Winston
12-19-2006, 09:55 PM
I do it by ignoring the issue of race in so called 'racial issues'.
I don't thin a back child adopted and raised by white parents would have any more in common with a person of the same race growing up in sub-saharen africa that a white kid.
So called racial issues are in my opinion social and cultural issues.

I think for all intents and purposes you are an anti-racist. I am a racist because I know those things you mentioned matter.

Heavens to Betsy
12-19-2006, 10:02 PM
I think for all intents and purposes you are an anti-racist. I am a racist because I know those things you mentioned matter.

Well I really don't consider myself an anti-racist for three reasons, firstly because I don't devote any time to attacking racism or attempting to reform racists, secondly because more and more frequently I express opinions that my more 'right on' friends denounce as racist (thay're wrong, but it leads me to believe that I'm not anti-racist in any conventiallally accepted term, and finally because I ignore the question of race in so called racial issues, I don't necesseirly discount completely the possibility that there are real and important differences between races, I just don't at this moment think I've seen sufficient evidence that they are relevant to the situations society faces.