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Petyr Baelish
01-08-2007, 06:06 PM
It has been asserted that the reproductive fluids of the human male contain awesome creative and spiritual energies. Does it therefore follow that women and homosexuals who've managed to ingest, or absorb via some other orifice, copious amounts of semen, are god-like beings possessed of superhuman powers, or at the very least, extremely wise and enlightened yogis?

Fade the Butcher
01-08-2007, 06:45 PM
Your vibrations are feeding the reptillians. :p

ivory bill
01-08-2007, 06:58 PM
I'm not sure I've ever been more tempted to send negative rep points.

Petyr Baelish
01-08-2007, 06:59 PM
I'm not sure I've ever been more tempted to send negative rep points.

My question is intended as a fully serious inquiry for those here who subscirbe to the viewpoint that human semen is infused with spiritual powers.

Mentious
01-08-2007, 07:54 PM
Yes, mental and spiritual potency associated with continence has been asserted by many great men, including Socrates, Beethoven, Jesus Christ, and Ramakrishna.

But the answer to your question is 'no.'

Just as your brains and your blood do much better for you when kept within yourself, rather than being eaten by people, the same is true of the generative material.

If a cannibal were to eat your brain (and I invite any local cannibals :rofl:), he would only get a strange meal. You, however, would suffer major disruptions.

Your procreative tissue, even more than your blood, is not intended to be 'food' for people to eat. And it carries no potency when disturbed and defiled in that manner. Quite the opposite.

Geist
01-08-2007, 08:29 PM
Interestingly Nietzsche believed that priests were strong in character because of the build-up of semen in their bodies. Only Nietzsche could have thought of such a thing, and be taken mildly seriously.

tempus fugit
01-08-2007, 08:29 PM
My guess is that you just broke a few members' hearts with that, Julian.

Steppenwolf
01-08-2007, 08:39 PM
Interestingly Nietzsche believed that priests were strong in character because of the build-up of semen in their bodies. Only Nietzsche could have thought of such a thing, and be taken mildly seriously.
Interesting; do you know where he said so?

antibuddha
01-08-2007, 08:56 PM
Interestingly Nietzsche believed that priests were strong in character because of the build-up of semen in their bodies. Only Nietzsche could have thought of such a thing, and be taken mildly seriously.

I do not believe it was the properties of semen, physiologically speaking, itself that he felt made them powerful, but rather their having mastered the control of their impulses and their "hoarding" of male essence as a power symbol. He speaks a lot of how he feels asceticism is the "highest manifestation of the will to power" because it is directed at the self or something to that effect, and not releasing your essence, especially unto others, kind of makes into a landed spiritual capital.

Mentious
01-08-2007, 08:59 PM
Interestingly Nietzsche believed that priests were strong in character because of the build-up of semen in their bodies. Only Nietzsche could have thought of such a thing, and be taken mildly seriously.
Nietzsche was echoing transcultural folk knowledge there, found also with indigenous shamanism. Pious mystics of many religious traditions -- Sufi, Yoga, the Christian saints -- have discovered that same principle.

A little chastity. Even a week of celibacy, strengthens a man's health, mind, and esoteric abilities. You also lose any neeed for drugs to prop up your mood or improve your inner state.

The male orgasm is the natural analog to the female's depressing and vitiating "period." To simpler peoples, closer to nature, this was patently obvious. The male is blessed to be able to "keep it in," and achieve an inner effect opposite of the female's period, and opposite of the depression accompanying his own period. This is also what once gave men natural dominance in the world.

Try it and see.

Fade the Butcher
01-08-2007, 09:02 PM
Julian,

What is the relationship between celibacy and the reptilians?

Steppenwolf
01-08-2007, 09:05 PM
Nietzsche also wrote (in TSZ: On Chastity).

Do I counsel you to slay your senses? I counsel the innocence of the soul. Do I counsel you to chastity? Chastity is a virtue in some, but almost a vice in many. They abstain, but the bitch Sensuality leers enviously out of everything they do, even to the heights of their virtue and to the cold regions of the spirit this beast follows them with her lack of peace. And how nicely the bitch Sensuality knows how to beg for a piece of spirit when denied a piece of meat.

Mentious
01-08-2007, 09:07 PM
Julian, What is the relationship between celibacy and the reptilians?
I love how you ask things like that with such a straight face.

The site tries to comment on the subject of chastity and celibacy from every angle and tradition imaginable -- Taoism, Christianity, Yoga, and even a few doctors. (Even though the vaunted scientists are always changing their tune.) We even try to relate to "new agers" or those into the 'reptilian' theory and David Icke (even though he appears to be a moral schlep).

If you're into the reptilians: I relate at www.celibacy.info that those who experience that phenomena see it closely linked to their sexual activity. This is in the David Icke material. I thought it was interesting enough to include at the site, especially for those into the idea of alien history or influence, and how that may relate to religious traditions of the demonic. I have a Gemini mind capable of at least entertaining many strands of metaphysical theory, alternative history, etc. We try to cover every base...

And by the way, that site's central subject is continence and sexual morality in all its dimensions; not masturbation particularly. You once expressed this misunderstanding. Which was very surprising. The loss is the loss is the loss.

Keystone
01-08-2007, 09:09 PM
Julian,

What is the relationship between celibacy and the reptilians?
Absolutely none. They fuck like crazy.

tempus fugit
01-08-2007, 09:14 PM
I don't think I have the self-control to be celibate, or near-celibate.

Mentious
01-08-2007, 09:17 PM
Certainly you can be celibate for 24 hours. "Celibacy" almost always refers to a "celibate period," because even priests and such who embrace celibacy were incontinent before. So it always refers to a period of time. If you can do a week, you'll feel amazing.

When men get rid of that "either-or" and "black-and-white" approach, it frees them to develop incrementally and just strive for greater self-control gradually. There are certainly grades and ranges of this moral attainment. The effort's the thing.

I would have rather been able to get the domain "chastity.info" because it is a broader term. But it was taken.

If somebody doesn't vilify me soon and cry "Vive le lust!" Uptight's thread is going to get completely ruined. :)

tempus fugit
01-08-2007, 09:23 PM
Julian, how long of a celibate period would one need before he notices any changes?

I could go for a couple days, pretty easily, but a week might be a bit tough.

Mentious
01-08-2007, 09:32 PM
Try three days. Then next try a week. It is harder for young men because the sex drive is so strong. But you will get so you can notice very subtle but important differences in your state. Don't just give in to an addiction.

Listen to the audio we have up today about the mental effects of continence, featuring the brilliant inventor Nikola Tesla, who was a celibate man. (Along with Isaac Newton, and others.) www.celibacy.info

tempus fugit
01-08-2007, 09:35 PM
OK....I'll try three days...thanks! :D

Mentious
01-08-2007, 09:37 PM
Excellent. I am not perfect at it. I have never gone for a year, for example. But the effort at continence has assisted my health, mind, and life in some powerful ways. Especially, it's allowed me to practice meditation very fruitfully. It makes the mind strong and increases the power of concentration. For Christians, sexual purity gives power to their prayers I am certain. It's what made Christianity powerful, along with devotion to Christ, which is even more important.

Fade the Butcher
01-08-2007, 09:49 PM
I love how you ask things like that with such a straight face.

In other words, you don't personally endorse the reptillian theory, right? You are discussing the role of celibacy from within that perspective. There is audio file about it on your website.

Mentious
01-08-2007, 10:22 PM
That's about right. I can't say that I endorse it because I am not sure what I think about the reptilian idea. I have not had that particular nightmare yet myself.

But I am willing to entertain it. That audio diversifies the material a bit, makes it wider ranging, and especially hits on certain "new agey" kinds of folk.

The site www.celibacy.info is a compendium. We have strong material there by the sikhs, for example, even though I am not a sikh. The Icke audio simply reports what his book says, and speaks with qualifiers like: "In his book...according to Icke...are believed to be...Icke states...here is the really interesting thing...if this is true...and so maybe it is...if so, then..."

I think it's one of the more interesting audios we have on there.-

At www.celibacy.info we are always trying to "head them off at the pass." Idiots that is. So-called tantrics, womanized 'yoga,' Rajneesh-Osho dreck, proponents of "new age spirituality" consisting of pursuing all desires without restraint, etc. I see Icke as a proponent of a goofey version of same. (According to Icke, Thomas Jefferson is classically evil because he owned some slaves.) So I was particularly interested when he said in his book that the evil reptilians feed off of "sexual energy" and "fear," yet throughout he fails to draw any of the natural inferences; fails to come up with even some rationale, much less an imperative, for sexual restraint. This is the classic "new age"/'yoga' blind spot. And Ikce sounds, between the lines, like a conventional new age libertine.

Since the "new age" is such a vast and problematic area for dharma (and traditional morality), I could not resist posting the Icke material just to put a bee in their pants a little.

Geist
01-09-2007, 12:21 PM
Interesting; do you know where he said so?

From his Notes (1880-1881). Page 75 of the Kaufmann reader if you have a copy or are near a library.

Here's the quote if you haven't got a copy handy:

The re-absorption of semen by the blood is the strongest nourishment and, perhaps more than any other factor, it prompts the stimulus of power, the unrest of all forces towards the overcoming of resistances, the thirst for contradiction and resistance. The feeling of power has so far mounted highest in abstinent priests and hermits (for example, among the Brahmins).

Geist
01-09-2007, 12:23 PM
I do not believe it was the properties of semen, physiologically speaking, itself that he felt made them powerful, but rather their having mastered the control of their impulses and their "hoarding" of male essence as a power symbol. He speaks a lot of how he feels asceticism is the "highest manifestation of the will to power" because it is directed at the self or something to that effect, and not releasing your essence, especially unto others, kind of makes into a landed spiritual capital.

To be perfectly honest as far as Nietzsche is concerned I have given up on trying to decipher when he is being literal, and when he is not. The reason the quote has always stuck in my head is because it mirrors the notion of sublimation which has always been an interesting concept for me. You are most likely right though.

Geist
01-09-2007, 12:25 PM
Nietzsche was echoing transcultural folk knowledge there, known also in indigenous shamanism. Pious mystics of many religious traditions -- Sufi, Yoga, the Christian saints -- have discovered that same principle.

A little chastity. Even a week of celibacy, strengthens a man's health, mind, and esoteric abilities. The male orgasm is the natural analog to the female's depressing and vitiating "period." To simpler peoples, closer to nature, this was patently obvious. Try it and see.

I am afraid I am not of a disciplined enough mind for celibacy.

tempus fugit
01-09-2007, 12:40 PM
Well, I'm on my second day...so far so good. My goal is three days.

Ahknaton
01-09-2007, 12:41 PM
Okay everybody, no babe threads!

tempus fugit
01-09-2007, 12:46 PM
LOL......I have to admit, even some examples of "bad media" in Julian's articles on Celibacy were getting me crazy.

I have to sleep in a different room from my wife....when I told her why, she laughed and said, "oh, so you're gonna jerk off less"?!?!?!

:D

Draugen
01-09-2007, 04:20 PM
Julian's site is very interesting. I don't agree with everything he says, but I can attest to this:

Notice your inner state before you have an orgasm, and your inner state after losing out. ("Losing out" is a good term for male sex indulgence.) Apply your subtle awareness and you will realize that your have been changed spiritually. You have lost a kind of soul power. Even though it seems subtle to you, the change is profound and significant. If you can't sense the inner feelings yet, notice how you behave very differently after losing out. You lose interest in many things once interesting. You feel less confident, less courageous, less resilient. You are more irritable and prone to negative thoughts. You may feel a temporary sense of relaxation or relief, but you are now on a much lower plane in terms of purpose, focus, and inner power. This is in fact the "male period."

I've been restraining myself in the last couple of weeks, and I've noticed all those things. I'm sure there is also a scientific explanation - probably linking to the emission of certain chemicals in the brain during orgasm - aside from the loftier spiritual ones.

Boleslaw
01-09-2007, 04:34 PM
Nietzsche was echoing transcultural folk knowledge there, found also with indigenous shamanism. Pious mystics of many religious traditions -- Sufi, Yoga, the Christian saints -- have discovered that same principle.

A little chastity. Even a week of celibacy, strengthens a man's health, mind, and esoteric abilities. The male orgasm is the natural analog to the female's depressing and vitiating "period." To simpler peoples, closer to nature, this was patently obvious. Try it and see.

Here's a quote that might interest you JL :)

"A person who governs his passions is master of the world. We must either rule them, or be ruled by them. It is better to be the hammer than the anvil."
--St. Dominic

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1829/stdominiha6.jpg

Nyx
01-09-2007, 04:41 PM
Yes, semen depletion results in the loss of important nutrients, including phosphorous and lecithin, which would under normal conditions be absorbed into the bloodstream.

Mentious
01-09-2007, 07:10 PM
Julian's site is very interesting. I don't agree with everything he says, but I can attest to this:

"Notice your inner state before you have an orgasm, and your inner state after losing out. ("Losing out" is a good term for male sex indulgence.) Apply your subtle awareness and you will realize that your have been changed spiritually. You have lost a kind of soul power. Even though it seems subtle to you, the change is profound and significant. If you can't sense the inner feelings yet, notice how you behave very differently after losing out. You lose interest in many things once interesting. You feel less confident, less courageous, less resilient. You are more irritable and prone to negative thoughts. You may feel a temporary sense of relaxation or relief, but you are now on a much lower plane in terms of purpose, focus, and inner power. This is in fact the 'male period.' "

I've been restraining myself in the last couple of weeks, and I've noticed all those things. I'm sure there is also a scientific explanation - probably linking to the emission of certain chemicals in the brain during orgasm - aside from the loftier spiritual ones.
Thank you for that. That's why I say, "Try it and see." The depression and profound change of state a man experiences immediately upon sexual loss is the huge overlooked phenomenon of our bizarre age. The key one.

Yes, there are loftier matters going on here. Noticing a change in phenomena in the outer world is where it REALLY gets interesting. ;) It's much bigger that science. Mystics teach that the entire outer world is a projection of your own body and its condition. What if they are right? As the old saddhu advised the young wood cutter in the forest: "Go further young man! Go further!"

Salutations. I consider you great, Man.

Johnson
01-09-2007, 09:14 PM
I tried it just for the fun of it when I was in Europe a couple'a years ago. I was staying in a shared room at a hostel, which makes having a good off-jack (or, at least a non-awkward one) a bit difficult. So I figured what the hey, instead of retiring to the communal shitter every so often to beat my meat, I'll see what effect this has, as boxers aren't supposed to bust for a week or two before their next fight to make them more aggressive and I was curious to see if it made any difference. It does. I can safely say that after about 10 days, I felt like a viking. I wanted to rape, pillage and destroy. I can't say for certain that I experienced any 'spiritual' or 'esoteric' or what-have-you feelings, just excessive horniness and rage.

Mentious
01-09-2007, 09:48 PM
A load of worthless crap from you, as usual.

Don Quixote
01-09-2007, 09:52 PM
Interestingly Nietzsche believed that priests were strong in character because of the build-up of semen in their bodies. Only Nietzsche could have thought of such a thing, and be taken mildly seriously.Sublimation has always been taken seriously by serious people.

Johnson
01-09-2007, 10:01 PM
A load of worthless crap from you, as usual.

Likewise. But is there any specific reason I didn't experience some kind of spiritual awakening?

Petyr Baelish
01-09-2007, 10:19 PM
Just as your brains and your blood do much better for you when kept within yourself, rather than being eaten by people, the same is true of the generative material.

That's an inept comparison. Blood and the CNS are two very important components of the body, and as you yourself admitted, loss of blood and brain tissue is very much deletrious to one's health. Semen most certainly does not fall into this category; like saliva, urine, phlegm and feces, it is expelled regularly from the body. Blood does not abruptly errupt from the tissues of a healthy man, nor do chunks of brain tissue fly from his nose, nor cereborspinal fluid seep from his ears - if he were to experience any such symptoms they would be indicative of serious health problems. Even the most 'continent' of celibates, on the other hand, have involunatary nocturnal emissions. Forthermore, there is no known biological purpose for semen other than procreation (it does not bathe the brain, as you falsely assert).

Petyr Baelish
01-09-2007, 11:25 PM
I think it's well over your head, Uptight. Carry on, wank away.

Indeed, while my brain is cushioned by cerebrospinal fluid, yours is apparently bathed in spiritually-infused semen, which evidently gives you an intellectual prowess that I cannot even conceive (pun intended). Oh, woe is me, I cry when I imagine just how much wiser, smarter, and more spiritually advanced I would be if semen filled my head!

Petyr Baelish
01-09-2007, 11:26 PM
I think it's well over your head, Uptight. Carry on, wank away.

Do involuntary nocturnal emissions render one's committment to 'continence' moot?

Mentious
01-09-2007, 11:49 PM
No, not at all. Just a break in continence does not render it moot. I use the metaphor: If you are gathering wood in the forest it doesn't render your efforts wasted just because you drop a stick from your arms now and then.

Nocturnal emissions are weakening, but are not of the magnitude of conscious emissions. For one thing, less is lost. More importantly, the waking ego is not there, which makes an occult difference. The impact of the orgasm "filtering through" the conscious ego, if you will, manifests as definite outer life disturbance. In a nocturnal emission, the waking ego is gone. This is one of the most occult aspects of it.

Semen doesn't "fill your head," but one comes into possesion of subtler elements from it. Just as important, one gets the benefits that come from refraining from disturbing what I call a man's "inner ground." For this aspect of it, which is more far out, I invite all men to review the way the world began to change, and new situations developed, during the years they began masturbating or having frequent losses. Just review it and see. Also the personal family life, especially the first year. Bringing it home more closely, after a period of continence (a couple of weeks) then a lapse, note what happens in your personal life, or even the larger world. Usually within 48 hours. This is the interesting part.

A relevant note for this thread: There was an article a few years ago, on one of the science sites, reporting that the male semen acts as an anti-depressant in women. I believe it was a study by British scientists. Blimey! I found it:

Semen Acts As An Anti-Depressant in Women
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2457

Most men have witnessed a definite glow and vitality in their wife the morning right after he gave up his best to her. (Which is what we do!) Well, it has the same effect for us, and more. This is my opinion, but also is supported by others going way back.

Try it and see.

OVERWATCH
01-09-2007, 11:56 PM
I have just a few observations to relate.

In many sports it is considered to be poor judgement to have sex before a game or a match, many believe that sexual release before an important sporting event will decrease performance. Perhaps orgasm causes testosterone(or other hormone) levels to drop?

It is common knowledge that following ejaculation one feels drained of energy, becomes fatigued, and often desires sleep.

Keystone
01-10-2007, 12:00 AM
I have just a few observations to relate.

In many sports it is considered to be poor judgement to have sex before a game or a match, many believe that sexual release before an important sporting event will decrease performance. Perhaps orgasm causes testosterone(or other hormone) levels to drop?

It is common knowledge that following ejaculation one feels drained of energy, becomes fatigued, and often desires sleep.
For a short time, like until you wake up. The "draining" is a superstition, nothing more. You've got plenty more sperm where the last ones came from. Ask your urologist about this old wive's tale.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 12:02 AM
It is common knowledge that following ejaculation one feels drained of energy, becomes fatigued, and often desires sleep.
Yes. He also wants to pull away from others and be alone. His wife (woman) who once attracts him no longer does. In fact, the female suddenly repels us. This has been well noted even clinically. His whole attitude has changed. Ambitions that once seemed important now seem like too much, or we forget why they were important. I think there is also an inner sense that the world seems "essenceless" or worthless. If you observe carefully, you may get what I mean. I think there is also a sense that the world seems "jumbled up,' or the man feels jumbled up, almost as if you are falling apart inside. The occult explanation to this is that the vitality and beauty of the world is actually "self-projected" into the world by the man himself, and now he has impoverished himself.

But men are taught not to be so self-aware. They are taught to quickly distract themselves with some thrill, drug, or vice. A man is literally demoralized afterwards, and that is why some of the worst crimes are done by criminals right after orgasm. As well as domestic disputes. The female is confused by this.

Here is William Shakespeare writing about the male orgasm, with a few of my comtemporary renderings thrown in:

Th' expense of spirit in a waste of shame
[the orgasm, which is a shameful waste, takes a spiritual toll on a man]

Is lust in action; and, till action, lust
[Shakespeare is defining masturbation as "lust in action," and also decrying the roiling anticipation of the act]

Is perjured, murd'rous, bloody, full of blame,
Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust,
[That's what Shakespeare thinks of that "expense of spirit."]

Enjoyed, no sooner but despised straight,
[as soon as he enjoys it, he straightaway regrets it and wishes he had not]

Past reason hunted, and, no sooner had,
Past reason hated, as a swallowed bait
On purpose laid to make the taker mad;
Mad in pursuit, and in possession so;
Had, having and in quest to have, extreme;
A bliss in proof, and proved, a very woe;
[He feels bliss while he has the orgasm, once had, it's all a downer, even "woe" itself, which was cosmically insightful]

Before, a joy proposed; behind, a dream.
All this the world well knows, yet none knows well
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.
[The state of orgasm is like a bit of 'heaven'; the state just following it is hell.]

http://celibacy.info/WilliamShakespeare01.jpg

OVERWATCH
01-10-2007, 12:10 AM
For a short time, like until you wake up. The "draining" is a superstition, nothing more. You've got plenty more sperm where the last ones came from. Ask your urologist about this old wive's tale.
I know about that false superstition of running out of sperm permenently :D

I believe that the period of post-orgasmic fatigue can last up to several hours. It seems that when you are younger, the fatigue is longer lasting.

Having been celibate for as long as a month in my younger days, I can attest that it does seem to ramp up your energy level overall. I was not celibate by choice mind you, but because of a very painful outbreak of eczema :o So this discovery was quite an accident. I will add however that the energy derived from celibacy is roughly equivalent to that derived from proper nutrition or exercise.

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 12:28 AM
Here's a quote that might interest you JL :)

"A person who governs his passions is master of the world. We must either rule them, or be ruled by them. It is better to be the hammer than the anvil."
--St. Dominic

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1829/stdominiha6.jpg

I would rather be the anvil. The anvil will destroy many hammers.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 12:31 AM
For a short time, like until you wake up. The "draining" is a superstition, nothing more. You've got plenty more sperm where the last ones came from. Ask your urologist about this old wive's tale.
Not so short a time. And is your own self-experienced depression and lack of life-interest following orgasm a "superstition"?

What about the man who can't go to sleep just then to try to recover from his hemorrage? He's a spiritual and emotional worm all day.
You've got plenty more sperm where the last ones came from. Ask your urologist about this old wive's tale.
Yes, and it takes tremendous life force to create that highest and most vital creation of the male body. It's not snot.

Yes, one gradually recovers. But not the very next day. He makes a gradual recovery over days to his former keenness and energy. The recovery time gets longer with age.

Even young, the one who is chronic about it keeps declining as a human being over time, no matter how much he sleeps. Just as a car battery that is constantly drained a little because of a short becomes gradually weaker and weaker. His life takes a weaker path. There is the issue of nature's limits and moderation. If a man has the loss ten times a week, are you saying that the depression and vitiation -- in whatever dimensions it may exist -- cannot multiply in him? Regardless of how many times he tries to sleep that week.

It's not about the physical semen and it's replenishment. That's one limited dimension of the subject.

I believe many Old Wives knew more important truths completely missed by modern Tech Fools.

Keystone
01-10-2007, 12:33 AM
Is your own self-experienced depression and lack of life-interest following orgasm just a "superstition"? What about the man who can't go to sleep just then to try to recover his powers? He's a spiritual and emotional worm all day. Yes, one gradually recovers. But not the very next day. He makes a gradual recovery over days to his former keenness and energy. Meanwhile, the one who is chronic about it keeps sinking in level over a period of time, no matter how much he sleeps. His life takes a weaker path.

It's not about semen and it's replenishment. That is a very limited dimension of the subject.
Medical evidence, please.

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 12:36 AM
Yes, semen depletion results in the loss of important nutrients, including phosphorous and lecithin, which would under normal conditions be absorbed into the bloodstream.

Source, please.

Hermetic
01-10-2007, 12:40 AM
Being in a celibate cycle for awhile Iam sad to report I do not glow in the dark or anything cool like that.

On the subject of spanky, it is common knowledge in the realm that most people call wacky (occult) that on the most condensed level the akasha(force element must people call "god") dwells in the males blood and semen/creative fluids.

And by certain trained ablities the energy is not lost but retaken into the body and the climax can be harnessed for other advanced workings. But believe as you will.

Hermetic
01-10-2007, 12:45 AM
Probably because they have convinced themselves every women is out to steal their life force even if the women don't even known they are. So they view them as evil. Makes sense that alot of the rhp types turn out to be odd women haters on the same wave length as the femicunts.


Yes. He also wants to pull away from others and be alone. His wife (woman) who once attracts him no longer does. In fact, the female suddenly repels us.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 12:46 AM
Medical evidence, please.
Doctors and the overly vaunted scientists are always changing their tune. They're the ones who preached that Nabisco formula was better than mother's milk. And that you could help people with mental problems by cutting up the front of their brains.

I would note these ideas about continence were once held to be true by Medical Doctors. (The same ones who long held that diet has zero importance in causing or curing disease.) Scientists never cured my bronchitis even with super freaky drugs. After years, continence cured it immediately. That's the medical evidence I'll take.

Doctors don't even know how to cure the friggin' common cold, so they're not even good at "science." Meanwhile, science is a moral and spiritual vacuum. I believe that "scientists" create the science that best fits their desires. I have known Doctors (M.D.s) who were masturbators, sex addicts, porn addicts, alcoholics, and drug addicts. So what are they going to say? The very researchers you ask to research it will fall into the same kind of camps.

Get ready evidence from your own mind and your own life. Hang what the "experts" say. Let them catch up to you.
Try it and see. It doesn't cost a dime to experiment with yourself.

Keystone
01-10-2007, 12:49 AM
Being in a celibate cycle for awhile Iam sad to report I do not glow in the dark or anything cool like that.

On the subject of spanky, it is common knowledge in the realm that most people call wacky (occult) that on the most condensed level the akasha(force element must people call "god") dwells in the males blood and semen/creative fluids.

And by certain trained ablities the energy is not lost but retaken into the body and the climax can be harnessed for other advanced workings. But believe as you will.
Most people don't call sperm or horniness, "God". They figure both those things come from God.

The workings you talk about from withholding your sperm are called "posts on internet forums."

Hermetic
01-10-2007, 01:03 AM
Most people are ignorant, so what about it.

Most people don't call sperm or horniness, "God". They figure both those things come from God.

The workings you talk about from withholding your sperm are called "posts on internet forums."

Petyr Baelish
01-10-2007, 01:03 AM
In many sports it is considered to be poor judgement to have sex before a game or a match, many believe that sexual release before an important sporting event will decrease performance. Perhaps orgasm causes testosterone(or other hormone) levels to drop?

Orgasm causes the release of oxytocin, a sedating and anti-agressive hormone. There is also a (temporary) downregulation of norepinephrine and dopamine production immediately following orgasm, which mostly accounts for the 'drained' feeling one experiences.

Petyr Baelish
01-10-2007, 01:06 AM
I tried it just for the fun of it when I was in Europe a couple'a years ago. I was staying in a shared room at a hostel, which makes having a good off-jack (or, at least a non-awkward one) a bit difficult. So I figured what the hey, instead of retiring to the communal shitter every so often to beat my meat, I'll see what effect this has, as boxers aren't supposed to bust for a week or two before their next fight to make them more aggressive and I was curious to see if it made any difference. It does. I can safely say that after about 10 days, I felt like a viking. I wanted to rape, pillage and destroy. I can't say for certain that I experienced any 'spiritual' or 'esoteric' or what-have-you feelings, just excessive horniness and rage.

I've had a simmilar experience with prolonged (>10 days) periods of abstinence myself. I did not feel wiser, stronger or more at peace - I simply felt pissed off and irritable as hell, and completely incapable of concentrating on anything.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 01:20 AM
I've had a simmilar experience with prolonged (>10 days) periods of abstinence myself. I did not feel wiser, stronger or more at peace - I simply felt pissed off and irritable as hell, and completely incapable of concentrating on anything.
That's because you were not doing enough sublimation yet. It was too early. If you don't achieve some major sublimation, it just jangles around and, yes, makes you like a restless stallion. (But even that state is a powerful human state for the male.)

If you don't have ways to ground it, channel it, and sublimate it, that will be some of your experience. It takes time to learn to do this. Just because Vindex ceases abusing himself on Monday doesn't mean he'll be enlightened by Friday.

And the spiritual life hangs on more than just sexual abstinence, whether 10 or 100 days. But I think if you try that a few more times, you will get to know the sense of inner strength that it gives, contrasted to after the loss. One effort may not be enough to make it clear to you.
Orgasm causes the release of oxytocin, a sedating and anti-agressive hormone. There is also a (temporary) downregulation of norepinephrine and dopamine production immediately following orgasm, which mostly accounts for the 'drained' feeling one experiences.
Science keeps coming up with names for grosser factors. But the subtle factors, on which grosser factors are based, are beyond them. The draining occurs at a more subtle level than these gross chemicals.
The workings you talk about from withholding your sperm are called "posts on internet forums."
Yes, that's all it will ever be to the one who never tries anything; who never experiences anything beyond conventional sensory life.
Being in a celibate cycle for awhile Iam sad to report I do not glow in the dark or anything cool like that.
You have been exempted from these principles. They won't work for you.

On the subject of [semen], it is common knowledge in the realm that most people call wacky (occult) that on the most condensed level the akasha(force element must people call "god") dwells in the males blood and semen/creative fluids.
That's correct.
And by certain trained ablities the energy is not lost but retaken into the body and the climax can be harnessed for other advanced workings. But believe as you will.
Abilities that you do not have but hope for. Believe as you will.

Keystone
01-10-2007, 01:40 AM
Most people are ignorant, so what about it.
Don't get me wrong, Dr A.

I'm not discounting anything mystical, but the human sex-drive doesn't figure into it, as far as I'm concerned. It's a tool, put in place by who-knows-what.

I'm a nominal Christian, but the best religious lecturer I've heard in a long time is Ajahn Brahmavamso, an Englishman who is a Theravadan master.

http://www.bswa.org/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=4&orderby=dateD

Excellent talks, and very much superior to Christian sermons.

Not racial.

Don Quixote
01-10-2007, 01:50 AM
That's because you were not doing any sublimation yet. It was too early.

If you don't have ways to ground it, channel it, and sublimate it, that will be some of your experience.I think this is very important. Those who advocate and practice celibacy did so not as an end in itself so much as a necessary means to an end. There has to be an alternative object onto which we project our eros otherwise the psyche will overheat, so to speak, and this manifests as the kind of aggression attested to by some of the people on this thread.

Keystone
01-10-2007, 01:59 AM
I think this is very important. Those who advocate and practice celibacy did so not as an end in itself so much as a necessary means to an end. There has to be an alternative object onto which we project our eros otherwise the psyche will overheat, so to speak, and this manifests as the kind of aggression attested to by some of the people on this thread.
Or not.

There are spinsters and old bachelors and asexual people who "practice" celibacy without any thought of empowerment or gain or loss. They just aren't keen on relationships. My godmother was one, and i knew many besides her.

They don't know from any of your philosophy.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 02:13 AM
I'm not discounting anything mystical, but the human sex-drive doesn't figure into it, as far as I'm concerned. It's a tool, put in place by who-knows-what.
The whole material universe is about sex, made of sex. That's why the approach we take to sex has such fundamental consequences. The "sex energy," an aspect of "shakti," is intelligent and aware, responding to how we treat it, to its context (whether the context is holistic or not), etc.

Read allegorically, the "descent of man" or 'The Fall' was nothing but the descent into a more carnal nature. That is, they began to express sex more grossly, so the outer phenomena became more gross; more dualistic. Some mystics do state that the whole "Garden of Eden" story is about sex. The forbidden "fruit in the midst of the garden" was the sexual organ. (Up end the spine and nerve system and it looks like a tree, with the organ hanging at the center.) Thus to this day, the more men engage in sexual sin, the more screwed up their world-dream gets. That's my experience. Man begins his walk back to the garden -- a better and more harmonious personal world -- with continence and sexual virtue.
Here's a quote that might interest you JL :) "A person who governs his passions is master of the world. We must either rule them, or be ruled by them. It is better to be the hammer than the anvil."
--St. Dominic
I thank you for that. What I want to say is: This quote has an occult significance that is not apparent. It is similar to a quote from the Vedas: "With the austerity of brahmacharya the king protects his kingdom." In reality, everyone "rules the world" because the world is a personal karmic self-projection or dream. It's just that some dream a world that is more screwed up than others. The disturbances in the world come from impurities in you. The celibate or chaste man starts to develop a world that is less disturbed. He also gets to have some understanding of how the world is self-projected, and so gets an occult power in influencing it if he wishes.

So what I am saying is: The quote that you provided, that the master of his passions is master of the world, is not some kind of soft happy talk, but literally true. For these esoteric reasons.

Der Sozialist
01-10-2007, 02:16 AM
It is common knowledge that following ejaculation one feels drained of energy, becomes fatigued, and often desires sleep.

It is widely known that Pygmy Chimpanzee’s, who use sex as a form of conflict resolution and reconciliation, are far less violent than the common chimp that does not. I believe this has also been observed in certain human cultures but my memory is failing me at the moment.

This probably is one of the factors explaining the propensity to violence of the members of certain Abrahamic cults (like Christianity and Islam) in comparison to other cults.

Also, while we are at it, it seems that most serial killers act out sexual fantasies and almost always, the victims are those that the killer is attracted to. Most serial killers are heterosexual white males explaining why heterosexual White females tend to be victims. However, one could easily say Serial killers only target women because they make easier victims. So, it is interesting to examine anomalies like Jeffrey Dahmer who was a homosexual and targeted men. I am sure more can be presented.

This is not to say that celibacy is bad—self control is a positive characteristic of an individual. However, one can always take it too far and celibacy can be a sort of addiction.

An analogy to illustrate my point—it is a positive characteristic of someone who can avoid temptation and diet but anorexia is a negative extreme. One must always have self control—over both his sexual cravings and his celibacy.

Insidium
01-10-2007, 02:17 AM
I had sex at approximately 1300 today, after which I ran two miles and then studied biochemistry. I do not experience this "draining" effect for longer than an hour, yet remain profoundly satisfied for the remainder of the day.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 02:27 AM
Or not. There are spinsters and old bachelors and asexual people who "practice" celibacy without any thought of empowerment or gain or loss. They just aren't keen on relationships. My godmother was one, and i knew many besides her. They don't know from any of your philosophy.
Pointless points. Spinsters and old bachelors are not the ones involved in this thread. They also have little to gain from chastity because their sex drives have gone away naturally, or in some cases, they have already sublimated the energy. (Which would show in their lives.) This thread is only meaningful and useful to the sexually potent male. The younger he is and the more strong his sex drive, the more significant the gains from controlling it a little.

On the other hand, sex wastrels become like spinsters and old men before the age of 20. I see many such callow, grey youths too much now. Virile men who work on chastity are in a completely different category from the wastrel, and from your spinsters and bachelors as well.
I know about that false superstition of running out of sperm permenently :D.
Some young men do make themselves impotent from excessive masturbation, or relatively less potent.
I had sex at approximately 1300 today, after which I ran two miles and then studied biochemistry. I do not experience this "draining" effect for longer than an hour, yet remain profoundly satisfied for the remainder of the day.
This is certainly the experience of most young men. Sex release in moderation is natural and not unhealthful for man. I don't argue with that. Still it doesn't mean you would not have achieved more in both efforts against a background of some continence. With more chastity you might digest the study more deeply, run that two miles with less strain, etc. Some restraint can give you that something extra that puts you over the top. Genius. Magic.

Certainly, the more noticeable personal effects of sexual loss come with chronic excessive loss and not with more moderate indulgence.

Cyprian
01-10-2007, 03:17 AM
This probably is one of the factors explaining the propensity to violence of the members of certain Abrahamic cults (like Christianity and Islam) in comparison to other cults. I'm not so sure about this. Islam is not a sexually restrictive religion, at least for men. A connection between celibacy (or near-celibacy) and violence would more likely result in Eastern religions promoting violence, whereas historically it has more often been Western religions that have done this.

Der Sozialist
01-10-2007, 03:29 AM
I'm not so sure about this. Islam is not a sexually restrictive religion, at least for men. A connection between celibacy (or near-celibacy) and violence would more likely result in Eastern religions promoting violence, whereas historically it has more often been Western religions that have done this.
I would posit that sex before marriage is quite rare under fundamentalist Islam—this is similar to fundamentalist Christianity.

Also, it takes two to have intercourse and therefore, a male needs a willing female. Females are not all together going to be that eager, I am guessing, considering the nature of Islam. Anyways, while I never studied theology, I believe that Christianity was also more restrictive towards women than men (Adam and Eve an example).

Cyprian
01-10-2007, 03:59 AM
I think it's worthwhile to look at the issue from an interpersonal standpoint, not to eliminate, but to supplement other perspectives. Any sexual experience is first and foremost an ecstatic experience. For many people, sex is the most ecstatic experience they will ever undergo. It is the only time they will ever genuinely lose themselves, if only for a moment. By virtue of this fact, sexual activity acquires an irreducibly spiritual aspect. The great Christian father St. Symeon the New Theologian expressed the negative side of this by saying that masturbation constitutes "a sacrifice offered by us to the devil."
Depending on the context and the spiritual state of the one involved in it, a sexual act is either a losing of oneself into one's own pleasure, paradoxically a sacrifice of oneself to oneself, and therefore to the devil, or to love, and therefore to God. Of course, masturbation always falls into the former category. One masturbates for no reason other than one's own pleasure, and thereby the sexual drive, which is the most accessible, if not the most profound, vehicle away from egotism and self-absorption, is perversely turned into a contributing cause to this disease. Many interpersonal sexual acts also fall into this category, and actually become far worse than masturbation. The masturbator is content to make use of his own resources to produce his satisfaction, but the lecher, not content with this, appropriates the personhood of another to feed his disordered desire. He therefore shows an active, rather than a merely passive, lack of love for the personhood of another. Whether or not the act is "consentual" is of little importance here. What matters is that the lecher has made use of a deep aspect of the personhood of another, even if he is content to allow his own personhood to be similarly abused.
The other sort of sexual activity, the type that is a sacrifice of love rather than of self-worship, is that which occurs within the context of and expresses a permanent relationship of love. In such a context, the purely sexual aspect of the encounter becomes of secondary importance, and the interpersonal aspect assumes a primary role. It is this interpersonal aspect that is the sublimated and truly original form of sexuality itself, prior to its corrupted state that we see in the empirical world. Of course, it would take further exposition to demonstrate the necessity of restraint and modesty even within the marital context, but I'll leave it here for now.

Cyprian
01-10-2007, 04:04 AM
I would posit that sex before marriage is quite rare under fundamentalist Islam—this is similar to fundamentalist Christianity.This is true, but the average age of marriage is quite low in Islamic countries, and men can have up to four wives. The point is that, although there may be some celibacy going on in the early years, these years end fairly quickly, and Islamic marriage leaves a fairly free sexual reign for men.

Also, it takes two to have intercourse and therefore, a male needs a willing female. Females are not all together going to be that eager, I am guessing, considering the nature of Islam.This is true before marriage, but not after. In Islamic law, a man has unrestricted sexual rights over his wives. Anyways, while I never studied theology, I believe that Christianity was also more restrictive towards women than men (Adam and Eve an example).I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. Maybe a bit of clarification would help.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 04:36 AM
It is widely known that Pygmy Chimpanzee’s, who use sex as a form of conflict resolution and reconciliation, are far less violent than the common chimp that does not. I believe this has also been observed in certain human cultures but my memory is failing me at the moment.
I always am nervous getting inspiration for human culture by looking at chimpanzees. Memory improves with more chastity. :whip:
This probably is one of the factors explaining the propensity to violence of the members of certain Abrahamic cults (like Christianity and Islam) in comparison to other cults.
Christianity has little real celibacy culture, even in the modern Catholic Church, i.e. ways and means, techniques to make celibacy authentic and fruitful. Suppression is not sublimation. Christian priests end up with unsublimated sex energy. They also drink too much coffee. India, on the other hand, has more knowledge of the ins-and-outs of celibacy. "Brahmacharya" (celibacy) is a well established cultural ideal there, along with meditation. (The most powerful mental work, which grounds the sex energy). Indians do not tend to be violent.
Also, while we are at it, it seems that most serial killers act out sexual fantasies and almost always, the victims are those that the killer is attracted to.
Your serial killer comments seem to be all over the place. Well, serial killers are usually heavily into porn. They act out sex on their victims. They are sex addicts. Probably like the Summa Cum Laude sex addicts.

"I’ve been in prison for a long time;
and I’ve met a lot of men who were violent offenders;
and without exception, every one was deeply involved in pornography."
--Ted Bundy
This is not to say that celibacy is bad—self control is a positive characteristic of an individual. However, one can always take it too far and celibacy can be a sort of addiction.
May as well call happiness, personal power, and calmness worriesome "addictions." But truly, I don't think you need to worry about too many men getting "addicted" to chastity. Generally it's the other way around, and those who even find the best fruits of continence are rare.

On the other hand, some addictions are very good for you. Others are destructive. Choose the good addictions.
An analogy to illustrate my point—it is a positive characteristic of someone who can avoid temptation and diet but anorexia is a negative extreme.
This is a good statement and I agree with it. Most men nowadays go toward the negative extreme of semen hemorraging. Thus some restraint talk is in order nowadays. I haven't noticed an overabundance of virile, glowingly chaste young men running amok. The anorexia analog is a bad one. Chastity won't make you become skeletal or anything remotely like that. On the contrary: You become more full of something good.
One must always have self control—over both his sexual cravings and his celibacy.
"Self control over his celibacy"? :confused: That's just downright silly.

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 06:11 AM
I will add my two cents.

Celibacy doesn't have any significant cognitive effects. It doesn't make anyon smarter, stronger, more creative, or any such thing, nor does it cure illness. Moreover, male orgasm is not an analogue of female menstruation. The two have little in common. However, there is some wisdom to be gleaned from it. My own preferred attitude towards sex is a detached indifference. Let it come as it does, with minimal thought devoted to it. It is a waste of a person's time to spend it masturbating excessively or prowling for girls every night of the week. I value restraint because it frees one from a time-consuming, monomaniacal obsession, but it has little or none of the great benefits aside from this that I sometimes see attributed to it on this forum. That is a delusion, albeit a harmless one. If someone wants to abstain from sex for 10 years, I have no desire to convince him otherwise.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 06:25 AM
Well, your comments were worth about "two cents" indeed. If that.
Celibacy doesn't have any significant cognitive effects.
False.

(A Helios style answer.) :whip:
It doesn't make anyon smarter, stronger, more creative, or any such thing
Utter rubbish.
...nor does it cure illness.
You have no clue about it.
Moreover, male orgasm is not an analogue of female menstruation.
That it is, is obvious as the sun in the sky.
The two have little in common.
1 They both involve the emission of the procreative bodily tissue. Though the male's "white blood" is richer than red blood lost by the female.

2 They both involve the emission of the specialized generative cells involved in human procreation: The egg in the female, and the sperm in the male. When these two come together, they form a human. (Remember that from Health Class Helios?)

3 They both are secreted from the male and female sexual organs. (Duh)

4 They each occasion profound psychological changes of state in both the male and the female: Moodiness, irritability, lack of nerve, impatience, withdrawal, etc. etc.

The two have "little in common"?

Is this the rational, clear seeing Helios or his evil twin?

However, there is some wisdom to be gleaned from it.
But for you, not much.

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 06:26 AM
There was no point to your responding to me.

:bitchfight:, indeed.

Dances with Wolves
01-10-2007, 06:40 AM
I had sex at approximately 1300 today, after which I ran two miles and then studied biochemistry. I do not experience this "draining" effect for longer than an hour, yet remain profoundly satisfied for the remainder of the day.

I agree. I feel power when I'm having sex and my feeling of maleness is enhanced afterward. It's what the whole sex thing is all about. celibacy only makes you pissed and weak. I don't doubt there is something to being celibate for a time, just like fasting. But both are bad for you when taken to the extreme.

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 06:45 AM
Who are you kidding by responding to me in this way? You can't demonstrate any of your claims to the satisfaction of an impartial observer. It is a waste of time. I could easily reply to most or all of your statements about orgasm by stating "present conclusive evidence" and you would be utterly unable to. I know this because we've been through that rigmarole before.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 06:51 AM
What? You mean responding with curt, one-word negations ala Helios? Who are you kidding by making a long list of pronouncements that are baseless opinion and which contravene all natural logic?
There was no point to your responding to me.
No, it was an excellent opportunity to hold forth, as well as flattening your vacuous statements.
You can't demonstrate any of your claims to the satisfaction of an impartial observer.
Helios can't demonstrate his claims. They are bald-faced opinion. I have done the work in the laboratory of life, and many agree with me in every age. And I hate to break it to you, but sex and its effects can't be well understood by "impartial observation." Sex and its spiritual and emotional inner effects are a very partial, personal, subjective realm. It's the furthest thing from cold science. That's why the sharing of the personal is ultimately more instructive. But is my personal testimony less worthy than "Dances" recent post 'testifying' to his personal enjoyment of sex? Or any of the many posts here supplying personal testimony? Do you ask for "scientific evidence" when someone here says "I feel good having sex?" No, only when a claim goes beyond what is common discussion. All can demonstrate these ancient claims to themselves quite easily.
I could easily reply to most or all of your statements about orgasm by stating "present conclusive evidence"...
Yeah, that's your standard line, and it must be very easy to ask it indeed. (Over and over again, on every topic.) As if you can't know anything unless a "scientist" tells you it's so in the lastest corporate-funded "study" or fashion research. Don't you get tired of it? If it goes against what the T.V. says, Helios demands a "scientific peer-reviewed study" (which will be obsoleted or overturned a couple years later).

Shakespeare's opinion is enough "evidence" to get me interested.

Why not use the evidence of your own experience? Do you live only vicariously? You might even become original.
...you would be utterly unable to.
You are utterly unable to get information even from your own life. If a thousand "scientists" told me I don't experience what I experience, it would mean nothing to me. Try it and see. Get your own "conclusive evidence." (Scientists never seem to conclude anything anyway.) Probably 80 percent of what gets talked about on this board is anecdotal. And the literature on celibacy and chastity goes well beyond anecdote. And my statements are wholly logical, which should count for something on a discussion board. But I didn't mean to clashed with your "progressive" and "enlightened" modern worldview. (cough)
Celibacy only makes you pissed and weak.
The opposite is true. Too much sex loss is what makes a man weak, both physically and subtlely. I am 50 and I was just in a confrontation with a strong 20-year-old knave a few weeks ago, who offended me by running his truck near me at a cafe. We got physical and it was no issue for me. I physically ejected two men from the house where I live the past several years. The blood of one was left all over the walls before the cops came. He was a tall 25-year-old surfer. I was a 42 year old man who doesn't exercise and had the flu. You are completely off base. Sex wasters won't win any wars.

But it's true that a chaste male is more easily "pissed" if by that you mean irritated or angered. But this is just an expression of the fact that he is a real man, having grit, courage, and a strong drive to champion Right. Sex wastrels become timid men and lack these qualities. (And I'm not talking about a man having natural sex with his wife once or twice a month. That's not a 'sex wastrel.') Sex wastrels are allowing our country to be invaded. No other class of men would possibly do that.
I don't doubt there is something to being celibate for a time, just like fasting.
Yes, there is 'something' to it. However, chastity is the opposite of fasting. In sexing, you lose life force. In chastity, you save it up. Sexing is much more like fasting: In both you are losing resources. But in fasting, the lack of food is compensated when the body begins to absord prana instead (fundamental life energy. That's why people are able to fast.) And fasting is benefical while sex wastage is not. In fasting the body purifies itself and becomes accustomed to living on prana, occult life force. In sexing, a man neither purifies himself nor draws in new energy. Fasting puts you through painful and weak periods. This is never the case with chastity; but quite the opposite. Meanwhile, sex indulgence usually gives a painful and weak period. The frequent sexer is like a "faster-with-no-benefits." He bleeds himself and starves his potential.

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 07:39 AM
You appear to want an argument over this badly with me, so I will overcome my uninterest in this subject and provide one. :)

What? Responding with one-word negations ala Helios?

This is a slanderous accusation. When I state that someone's statement is false, incorrect, wrong, inaccurate, etc., I almost always explain why this is so in detail. There are vanishingly few posts in which I say that someone is wrong, then fail to elaborate. The only time this happens is when a neophyte has arrived and made a putatively definitive statement sans justification about a topic which has been debated ad nauseam in the past. It is insulting to claim that it's my M.O.

Who are you kidding by making a long list of pronouncements that are baseless opinion and contravene all logic?

1) Unlike yourself, I am not activist. You want to promote celibacy. I do not want to promote promiscuity or anti-celibacy. I feel no need to demonstrate that I am right about my claims about celibacy and that you should abandon it. I note only that there is no evidence that I am aware of supporting your claims. If I wanted to promote celibacy, however, I would feel a responsibility to justify my position and explain why others should take it up. You will find this in threads in which I do endorse a normative position, such as in eugenics threads. You will note a stark difference between my contributions to those threads and yours to these celibacy threads. Namely, I provide genuine empirical evidence.

2) I am not contravening any logical principles.

No, it was an excellent opportunity to hold forth, as well as flattening your vacuous statements.

You made a bunch of claims and didn't give any evidence in support of them. You have "held forth," but you haven't demonstrated that your position is correct. It is for this reason that I presented my own beliefs and didn't directly engage you by quoting you and replying: because I could see that you had nothing to show. The longer this goes on, the more obvious it is that i am right about this.

You can't demonstrate your claims. They are bald-faced opinion. I have done the work in the laboratory of life, and many agree with me in every age.

I don't intend to. I point out that there is no evidence for your claims and it is contrary to present knowledge about the operation of the human biological system. If it is true, then it's up to you to put up or shut up.

Yeah, that's your standard line, and it must be very easy to ask it indeed. (Over and over again, on every topic.) As if you can't know anything unless a "scientist" tells you it's so. (In the lastest 'peer reviewed study" or fashion research.) Don't you get tired of it?

I don't know what you're talking about. I ask for scientific evidence when claims are made which are amenable to scientific investigation, such as yours.

Use the evidence of your own experience. Do you live only vicariously?

Please stay on topic. We are not discussing me. We are discussing the evidence that can be presented to demonstrate that you are right about the effects of ejaculation.

You are utterly unable to get information even from your own life. If a thousand "scientists" told me I don't experience what I experience, it would mean nothing to me. Try it and see. Get your own "conclusive evidence." (Scientists never seem to conclude anything anyway.) Probably 80 percent of what gets talked about on this board is anecdotal. And the literature on celibacy and chastity goes well beyond anecdote.

Once again, the subject of this topic is not the life of Helios Panoptes. You should stop talking about the person and start addressing the topic, which is, need I remind you, the justification for the belief that ejaculation has many negative effects that can be avoided through celibacy, which has many beneficial effects. Pretend that you are talking to an automaton; whatever it takes to stop talking about me. It's not that I'm shy, but it's impertinent.

Also, my statements are wholly logical, which should count for something on a discussion board.

Making logically valid statements is hardly a high standard, nor does it indicate that you are correct. What needs to be demonstrated is that your premises are true, and here you have stalled.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 07:40 AM
No, I didn't want an argument with you badly, Helios.
You are too boring to argue with that much.
I just hate seeing you make vacuous statements. :)-

Which "premise" are you asking about? That the male creative material is a twin/analog to the female creative material? The validity of that premise would be apparent to a 5-year-old and a 50-year-old. Or that the male creative material might be something better than snot? Which premise of mine seems so shaky to Helios?

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 07:44 AM
Okay, I reckon you merely wanted to make a false accusation against me and duck out, then. Very well.

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 07:48 AM
Which "premise" are you asking about?

The matter in dispute is whether or not ejaculation has the effects that you say that it does.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 07:51 AM
Well, for one thing: Every man knows about post-ejaculatory depression. (You have forgotten how you felt after your first orgasm?)
So do the "scientists": Psychologists, doctors, etc.
It's been acknowledged and covered in medical and psychololgy texts forever.
I have only pointed it out. Nothing original to prove to you there.
It is completely logical that the less often one does that, the less often he is depressed and demoralized, no?
That's as simple as pie.
Okay, I reckon you merely wanted to make a false accusation against me and duck out, then. Very well.
No, I just find it tedious to argue with one who's all-purpose challenge is "show me a scientific study."
The truth is, there are few if any scientific studies one could point to on the subject of this thread.
Besides, scientists need a "scientific study" to figure out that mother's milk is better than Nabisco powder. So I don't have much respect for their basic intelligence anyway. Sorry. I have more respect for myself.

And when you say the male sexual loss has nothing in common with the female sexual loss, it tells me your Thinking Cap has been turned off for the night anyway.

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 07:57 AM
Every man knows about post-ejaculatory depression, for one thing.
It's been covered in medical and psychololgy texts forever.
I have only pointed it out. Nothing original to prove to you there.

This is not an adequate response. You need to do the following;
1) Clearly state the specific effects you're thinking of, then find evidence showing that they exist. They all might, they all might not, or maybe there is a mix(probably).
2) Show that the effects which you suggested and have confirmed are not ephemeral.

EDIT:

And when you say the male sexual loss has nothing in common with the female sexual loss, it tells me your Thinking Cap has been turned off for the night anyway.

No, what it indicates is that I left too much open to erroneous interpretation. I imagined the reader would follow along, but I was mistaken. Obviously, what I intended is that there is a lack of significant similarities; even more obviously, what I meant by this is there is a lack of similarity between effects on cognitive and affective states.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 08:03 AM
This is not an adequate response. You need to do the following;
1) Clearly state the specific effects you're thinking of, then find evidence showing that they exist. They all might, they all might not, or maybe there is a mix(probably).
2) Show that the effects which you suggested and have confirmed are not ephemeral.
I feel like I'm talking to a Martian. Or you sound like some very rigorous professor prescribing clinical rules for a research project to his advanced pre-med class in Immunology. Very bizarre how you get on this subject...

Post-ejaculatory depression clearly exists. It's not my unique personal experience. It's been acknowledged in sex texts for a very long time. Are you having a neurotic breakdown here? Meanwhile, one can always know about it from one's self from personal experience, which is even better. Have you ever tasted salt, Helios? Bumped your head? Gotten cold? Surely you know about post-ejaculatory depression. You don't need to rely on me to prove that men have it. On the other hand, maybe you have never been that dissolute. Still, I think all men know that weird feeling like they just fell apart inside after their first orgasm. And know it often thereafter.

But simply demanding another "scientific study" on these personal experiences is not an adequate response, Helios. Did you demand scientific proof when "Dances" said he enjoyed sex? (How could I prove to Helios that I feel pain when I get an infected cut?)

You need to do the following: Read some of the literature about post-ejaculatory depression. The "specific effects" have been well noted. Better yet, note your own state after the loss of seminal fluid. You'll know more than a scientist can. And you'll be an Earthling. :) But maybe you have been dissolute only rarely. In this remarkable case, I could understand you not knowing much about post-ejaculatory depression.

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 08:26 AM
Post-ejaculatory depression clearly exists. It's not my unique personal phenomenon. It's been acknowledged in sex texts for a very long time. It's been acknowledged in sex texts for a very long time.

You need to state the effects, then verify the effects you've propounded, then show that they are long-lasting and common. So far, none of this has happened.

Are you having a neurotic breakdown here?

No, I am holding you to the evidentiary standards to which I hold others and myself.

Meanwhile, one can always know about it one's self from personal experience. Have you ever tasted salt, Helios? Bumped your head? Gotten cold?

Yes, and there is a constant conjunction in those instances. If I apply a cold object to you, you report feeling it. If I hit you over the head, you report a painful sensation in that area, and so forth. This is also in perfect accord with our knowledge of the operation of the human CNS. Similarly, if ejaculation causes X, we can expect to find it with great consistency. All I'm asking for is the evidence of this. Really, it's not an unreasonable demand.

Surely you know about post-ejaculatory depression. You don't need to rely on me to prove that men have it.

If you really must know, I am almost always in a good mood after. This is more true with women than auto. Then again, this is not unexpected, as I recently read that there are sound neurological reasons that sex is more satisfying than masturbation.

This is not an adequate response, Helios. (Demanding another scientific study.) Did you demand scientific proof when "Dances" said he enjoyed sex?

TBH, I didn't notice that post, but I wouldn't have asked for scientific proof because it could easily be proven that orgasm correlates with brain activity associated with pleasure and virtually everyone reports that it is pleasurable.

I feel like I'm talking to a Martian.

It's okay. I know the feeling.

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 08:27 AM
How could I prove to Helios that I feel pain when I get an infected cut?

Good question. Start a thread about it if you like. It is the famous "problem of other minds."

Mentious
01-10-2007, 09:44 AM
If you really must know, I am almost always in a good mood after.
(The thread starter was the one who wanted to know.)

After real sex with a woman, and not done to excess, certain elements of "good mood" are usually there. (I agree that with mastrubation it is far less.) However, notice more carefully: You are in a good mood in certain ways due to relaxation and release, but not in other ways. This is more noticeable with orgasmic excess, such as having sex with the woman several times in a few days. (But maybe you have never been that dissolute.) It would be practically unnoticeable to a younger man doing it, say, once a month. But even here, you are in a weaker or more demoralized mood in certain other ways.

If you've never noticed your personal change in state after the loss of semen, you can always read about this common experience in medical and psychological literature going back decades. I'm not going go through the toil of finding and copy-pasting text for you. This matter is as well known as the fact that eggs get hard when heated on a grill. It could be that you have never had the fault of going in for excess with sex as many men do. Certainly on "first orgasms" that sharp alteration of mood and disturbed feeling is both patent and memorable.
I would rather be the anvil. The anvil will destroy many hammers.
The saint made a really bad metaphor there. In reality the celibate is the anvil. He always stays "hard." The hammers you imagine getting damaged are certainly the men who beat themselves up, throwing themselves at a sexual object, spending themselves like rutting stags until they are vitiated and limp.

Don Quixote
01-10-2007, 10:08 AM
The French have a much more natural term for this (post-ejaculatory depression is a bit too dry and scientific for me considering what's involved) - le petit mort, the little death.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 10:21 AM
Yeah, and what do centuries of Frenchmen know about sex that Helios don't?

But please give me some scientific studies that prove that the French really call the orgasm the "little death." :)
Also, I require peer-reviewed studies that show conclusive evidence of what they meant by "little death."
Also, How many Frenchmen have called the orgasm "the little death" and in what years?
Finally, please supply concrete examples of what the Frenchmen mean by the "little death" of orgasm.

Otherwise your assertions about the French are inadequate. :rofl:

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 10:31 AM
Helios, if you've never noticed your personal change in state after the loss of semen, you can always read about this common experience in medical and psychological literature going back decades.

I didn't say there was no change in my personal state. What I said is that I have not noticed anything I would call "depression" and I certainly have noticed no long-lasting aftereffects. The question is: how common is post-ejaculatory depression and how long does it last?

I'm not going go through the toil of finding and copy-pasting text for you.

Why not? I do it all of the time when the situation calls for it. If you're going to make claims, you owe substantiation if they're disputed.

This matter is as well known as the fact that eggs get hard when heated on a grill. Your professed ignorance about it is quite bizarre.

That ejaculation has the effects you attribute to it is not well-known. Hardly anyone believes that, as far as I'm aware of. Most everyone believes that eggs get hard when cooked, though.

Here's a suggestion: Why don't you work on the problem of trying to prove whether you have toenails or not. If you can do that on your own, I might have some more time for you.

^ trolling

If you have trouble with this, I might be able to refer you to a scientific book on toenails.

If we decided to research whether or not most humans have toenails, we would have little difficulty digging up a wealth of scientific evidence that they do. You are being ridiculous.

It may not be much help, because it sounds like the "problem of other minds" is a formidable problem as well.

Fortunately, the subject of this thread is not the problem of other minds. It is the effects of male orgasm, a matter amenable to empirical research.

Bad metaphor there. In reality the celibate is the anvil. He always stays "hard." The hammers you imagine getting damaged are certainly the men who beat themselves up, throwing themselves at a sexual object, spending themselves like rutting stags until they are vitiated and limp.

What are you talking about? I wasn't using my critique as of the quote as a metaphor for celibacy and ejaculation. It was a general comment about the quote, itself.

The French have a much more natural term for this (post-ejaculatory depression is a bit too dry and scientific for me considering what's involved) - le petit mort, the little death.

This is the second time I've heard that. The first time, the idea was that orgasm involves a momentary state of ecstasy in the sense of being displaced from oneself, and this is analogous to death. I think this is a more poetic interpretation, but I don't know what the origin is.

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 10:33 AM
Yeah, and what do centuries of Frenchmen know about sex that Helios don't?

But please give me some scientific studies that prove that the French really call the orgasm the "little death." :)
Also, I require peer-reviewed studies that show conclusive evidence of what they meant by "little death."
Also, How many Frenchmen have called the orgasm "the little death" and in what years?
Finally, please supply concrete examples of what the Frenchmen mean by the "little death" of orgasm.

Otherwise your assertions about the French are inadequate. :rofl:

Wow, I have reduced you to trollish outbursts. I think I have broken Julian Lee. :p

Ahknaton
01-10-2007, 10:35 AM
This image may be of some assistance to those attempting to maintain periods of celibacy:

http://www.splcenter.org/images/dynamic/intel/report/8/ir111_stromelisha_200x315.jpg

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 10:35 AM
Basil, I did a search and it seems plausible that it derives from the Four Humours somehow.

Helios Panoptes
01-10-2007, 10:47 AM
The saint made a really bad metaphor there.

Okay, clarified. I thought you meant I was making a bad metaphor.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 10:51 AM
Wow, I have reduced you to trollish outbursts. I think I have broken Julian Lee. :p
"Trollish outbursts?" It's called 'humor,' Helios, satirical style. And I don't feel reduced, but elevated, because I rarely get into a humorous mood. It was the first time I was having any fun in this dialogue. It lightens things up whenever I get to feeling like I am talking to Mr. Spock. :)

But you call my creative transport an "outburst." I'm crestfallen. I would sure have hated to have Helios for a dad.

Goodnight to all. I have been on this forum too danged long for my own good.

tempus fugit
01-10-2007, 12:30 PM
Interestingly, celibacy was a crime in Sparta.

Hermetic
01-10-2007, 03:49 PM
Most people are ignorant ie not knowing of the what the etheric element is classified as in the most condensed level in the male. The blood is the river of life and the semen is the ability to create another life.

Now in reality if celibate behaviour preached by the guru telephone gamers is true I would say maybe in the middle ground. Pounding yourself into hamburger is not good for you but neither is living like your have been castrated. All holy books and golden rules and people bleating them as fact does make it so. The original religions where all based on fertility and where very sexual in content.

I support celibate behaviour as far as a will thing in the fact a man should always been in control of his drives, indulge yes, but addicted no. Extreme celibacy is abnormal behaviour so naturally produces abnormal behaviour in people.


Don't get me wrong, Dr A.

I'm not discounting anything mystical, but the human sex-drive doesn't figure into it, as far as I'm concerned. It's a tool, put in place by who-knows-what.

I'm a nominal Christian, but the best religious lecturer I've heard in a long time is Ajahn Brahmavamso, an Englishman who is a Theravadan master.

http://www.bswa.org/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=4&orderby=dateD

Excellent talks, and very much superior to Christian sermons.

Not racial.

tempus fugit
01-10-2007, 04:55 PM
The answer, it appears, is in the middle between acting castrati-like, and spilling semen at every possible moment. It's a number thing. For me, once or twice a month is probably a reasonable goal.

My life experiences, however, clearly and profoundly favor Julian's view.

Geist
01-10-2007, 07:38 PM
I've deleted a few posts in this thread so please stop from going off-topic lads, and any more flames will be deleted.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 07:40 PM
Extreme celibacy is abnormal behaviour...
There is no such thing as "extreme celibacy." Celibacy means celibacy. No sex. Whether for a week or a year. There is no form of "moderate celibacy."

Hermetic
01-10-2007, 07:43 PM
hmmmm...extreme celibacy is seen in the catholic priests where moderate celibacy is in periods. So no, there is a thing as extreme celibacy and it does cause abnormal behaviour.

There is no such thing as "extreme celibacy." Celibacy means celibacy. No sex. There is no "moderate celibacy."

Mentious
01-10-2007, 07:46 PM
Again, celibacy is celibacy. It means no sex. Do you have a dictionary?

Sex wasters are the true "castrated" men, obviously. Chaste males are the very opposite of those castrati.

Hermetic
01-10-2007, 07:47 PM
There is a big difference between no sex for life and no sex for a month.

Again, celibacy is celibacy. It means no sex. Do you have a dictionary?

Boleslaw
01-10-2007, 07:48 PM
I thank you for that. What I want to say is: This quote has an occult significance that is not apparent. It is similar to a quote from the Vedas: "With the austerity of brahmacharya the king protects his kingdom." In reality, everyone "rules the world" because the world is a personal karmic self-projection or dream. It's just that some dream a world that is more screwed up than others. The disturbances in the world come from impurities in you. The celibate or chaste man starts to develop a world that is less disturbed. He also gets to have some understanding of how the world is self-projected, and so gets an occult power in influencing it if he wishes.

So what I am saying is: The quote that you provided, that the master of his passions is master of the world, is not some kind of soft happy talk, but literally true. For these esoteric reasons.

Interesting take on St. Dominic's words. I dont think what you said necessarily goes contrary to the message he was conveying; if that was your intention.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 08:05 PM
The Catholic saints are full of mysteries. Scriptures are full of mysteries. That's what's so fun about religion. The self-projected world is also full of mysteries, the mysteries of our own soul.

antibuddha
01-10-2007, 08:27 PM
The answer, it appears, is in the middle between acting castrati-like, and spilling semen at every possible moment.

"The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom."

Der Sozialist
01-10-2007, 08:53 PM
[...]

Celibacy may not manifest any physical side effects as those of anorexia but excessive celibacy, as that found among priests in the Catholic Church, does lead to some emotional deficiencies. After all, pedophiles, pederasts, and garden-variety homosexuals are found in alarming frequencies among their ranks. Though, one could argue that such policy (of Celibacy) may attract people who are already trying to suppress deviant tendencies—tendencies that they feel the Church may indeed help them with.

Though, it does make sense that prolonged periods of abstinence may lead to emotional impairments—after all, just about all of us are programmed to create progeny. It is observed in nature, that animals become more aggressive without sex—they also become less "choosy", if you will. I do think that something similar occurs in humans.

After all, even you observed that when practicing celibacy, you find women more attractive. You probably also found a greater variety of women attractive.

Also, it should be noted, that the biggest consumers of porn are people that rarely have sex (in comparison to the average for their nations).

Mentious
01-10-2007, 09:08 PM
Though, it does make sense that prolonged periods of abstinence may lead to emotional impairments...
Sexual self-abuse and inordinate depletion of the vital material leads to emotional impairment. I experienced this personally as a youth and an adult. This not only makes sense, but is manifestly clear in practice. You don't need a theory for it. A man's coping powers are vastly reduced by sexual excess, but not by chastity. His coping powers and emotional resilience are increased by chastity. Sex addiction brings profound emotional impairment and a lack of 'nerve.'
...after all, just about all of us are programmed to create progeny.
Then create progeny. Have you? After that, this is why men have wet dreams. It takes care of everything.
...excessive celibacy, as that found among priests in the Catholic Church, does lead to some emotional deficiencies. After all, pedophiles, pederasts, and garden-variety homosexuals are found in alarming frequencies among their ranks.
Please! A pedophile is a celibate? An active pedophile is by definition sexual and not celibate. Their problem is sex indulgence, pedophilia; the lack of celibacy. Not celibacy.

Again, there is no rational basis for the phrase "excessive celibacy" because celibacy is celibacy. There is no "moderate celibacy." The word is the strongest technical word possible for 'complete abstinence from sex.' On the other hand, I guess your pederasts and garden-variety homos have attained this "moderate celibacy" you espouse. Right? Looks like there are already too many of your "moderate celibates" in the Catholic church there. And what a pain they are!

The Catholic Church has been invaded by homosexuals (deviants) because a homosexual cadre/mafia got established there in the past few decades, turning away straight novitiates. There is a recent book on the subject. In the majority of Catholic history, priests have been manly, chaste men. This is still true of the majority of priests. The Catholic Church is huge, but media culture-rotters like to go gunning for it and have magnified this problem in the public mind. (Even yours!) Even so, San Francisco continues to attract more gays that the Catholic Church does. And I would say that the teaching profession in the secular public schools attracts a vastly higher number of homosexuals. Of course, they are "O.K." It's the Catholics, all "patriarchies," Gentile power structures, and priests who need to be 'raked over the coals' by Catholic Church's strange Moral Watchdog: The Jewish press.

Back to your post: It is mordant ignorance to think that chastity creates perversion. It is truly the other way around: Sex indulgence is what creates perversion. Show me a straight who is a big masturbator and I'll show you a future homosexual. (He's already getting a lighter voice, more feminine ways, etc.) Hugh Hefner is one famous example. Real chastity actually destroys homosexual impulses and makes a man manly. The one medicine for male sexual perversion is, in fact, restraint. (Obviously! Retaining masculine essence, instead of dumping it; saving those male hormones, etc, would naturally make a man more manly, not less. I got hair on my chest and hoary hairs on my eyebrows after becoming chaste, and my voice became much deeper.)

All famous perverts are indulgers of desires. Satisfy desires; they grow. Acting out desires, the samkaras (impressions) of the experience just get deeper and deeper; then one wants to repeat and repeat, while the tastes become grosser and more warped.
It is observed in nature, that animals become more aggressive without sex...
So do lower order men. Again, you won't find the highest ideals for human culture among chimpanzees and squirrels. We are capable of some different things. Do monkeys have the "Yoga-Sutra"? Do they know about pranayama?
...they also become less "choosy", if you will. I do think that something similar occurs in humans. After all, even you observed that when practicing celibacy, you find women more attractive. You probably also found a greater variety of women attractive.
This is only true at a certain stage. The "horny" stage I guess we have to say. Fuller on, I have found that chastity makes me excruciatingly discriminating about women, in terms of who is attractive. Fewer and fewer are. This is because a chaste male gets to loathe any kind of sleaze, and can only be sexually attracted to another fairly moral, chaste woman. They are rare. His faculty of discrimination becomes greater because of the intellectual acuity chastity brings. He also gets more intuition, because of spiritual faculties that are developed by chastity combined with religious effort. On the other hand, after times of lapse and indulgence, I find myself much more "sexualized," as if the libido has become a collection of medusa snakes, coiling out and glomming on to practically anything. When in a sexually debauched state, even a tattoed coffee maid can seem sexy to me.
Also, it should be noted, that the biggest consumers of porn are people that rarely have sex (in comparison to the average for their nations).
What in blazes are you even talking about???

Pornlings are the ones incited to more sex than anybody else! It's called masturbation. It may be unholistic but it's sex, classed both as sodomy and fornication in saner times, and even more vitiating than holistic sex with the female. It's the sexual emission. Men who want to sex, look at porn. Not men who want chastity. It's their decision to dispense with chastity that makes them go for porn. Meanwhile, the porn causes them to have more sex and become sex addicts, and be less and less chaste so that it's only a distant memory.

So you have another thing backwards: Chaste men are the least consumers of porn, not the other way around.

It should be noted that some of your statements, like the one above, are bizarre.
There is a big difference between no sex for life and no sex for a month.
Indeed. Short term celibate periods produce much less occult fruit. Only longer term celibacy produces much esoteric or spiritual benefit.

tempus fugit
01-10-2007, 09:17 PM
The Catholic Church is huge, so I'm not convinced that they have alarmingly high frequencies of homosexuals and pedophiles.

I think it's a quantity versus quality thing. My guess is that infrequent sex feels better and is more satisfying that frequent sex.

Der Sozialist
01-10-2007, 09:41 PM
A pedophile is a celibate? Far from it. They were obviously never celibates to begin with. Their problem is pedophilia, not celibacy. Obviously.
A pedophile that abstains from sex, is by definition celibate—isn’t he? Either way, I allowed a counterargument to my initial suggestion that pervasive celibacy might lead to pedophilia. I simply haven’t seen studies on the matter and it would hard to be separate cause and causation if I did—after all, is not a pedophile celibate simply because his tendencies are illegal and carry societal taboos?

I did see a study, however, that estimated that the majority of pedophiles were not practicing.

Der Sozialist
01-10-2007, 09:45 PM
The Catholic Church is huge, so I'm not convinced that they have alarmingly high frequencies of homosexuals and pedophiles.

I think it's a quantity versus quality thing. My guess is that infrequent sex feels better and is more satisfying that frequent sex.
I have seen an article in Time magazine, where a former homosexual priest, claimed that a certain percentage of priests in his perish were homosexuals—this number was many times higher than the national average.

Mentious
01-10-2007, 10:11 PM
It is really devastating what has happened to the Catholic Church. Part of the reason is they have little of the arcane knowledge necessary to master celibacy as sublimation. They lack a "culture of celibacy" you could say. Long-term celibacy is a very difficult thing to attain.

Wherever there is a religious organization that has declined in celibacy culture, I see a phenomenon of gays and women taking over that org. Just like certain kinds of bugs end up in a rotting tree.

I've seen this with the Theosophical Society in California, which was originally supposed to be a conveyor of dharma, including the celibacy ideal of yoga.

You also see it in the Protestant lines today. You hear more and more about homosexual ministers being found out among the Protestants.

The Anglicans are down the tubes. They even have a gay bishop; faster to rot, because their celibacy ideal is much weaker than the Catholics.

Western Buddhism is dead-on-arrival in the west. Buddha said: "It's better to put your penis into the mouth of a viper than into a woman." This is all lost now on western 'Buddhists.' Tellingly women, who always downplay and dispense with morality coming and going, are the big names in western Buddhism already.

Wherever there is no effective teachings on moral restraint, religion always dies. Only moralists can re-establish positive and powerful religion on the planet.

Dat's my opinion. :cool:

Fenrisulfr
01-10-2007, 11:27 PM
The disturbances in the world come from impurities in you. The celibate or chaste man starts to develop a world that is less disturbed.


Wouldn't that be impossible in our modern era? We are currently living in the darkest of all four ages and dissolution is a reality. Perhaps the disturbances of the world didn't come from us directly, but rather the majority of the people living on our planet. I'm "disturbed" from almost everything I witness in our world. From the common negro to the filth that is on television, I'm absolutely disgusted with everything our age offers us.

Mentious
01-11-2007, 12:05 AM
Wouldn't that be impossible in our modern era? We are currently living in the darkest of all four ages and dissolution is a reality. Perhaps the disturbances of the world didn't come from us directly, but rather the majority of the people living on our planet. I'm "disturbed" from almost everything I witness in our world. From the common negro to the filth that is on television, I'm absolutely disgusted with everything our age offers us.
Well, this particular metaphysical view is that it all comes from you. The "Age" and "Ages." The people. The disturbances. All of the world conditions. This includes negative people, invaders, and sinners. It includes "logical causes." You manufacture a "past" with "causes," and you keep discovering (inventing) new "past" conditions to explain whatever is before you. (Notice how the "past" keeps changing as new "facts" are discovered.) All this is an emanation of your self. The more negative items in the "false world dream," in this view, are due to impurities in yourself. In the same way that a speck on a slide shows up in the slide show. For this reason, impure men will never see their world change to something better.

Related to this thread, I invite all men who have had a masturbation habit, or any heavy sexing habit, to note what sort of changes occurred in his world, both personal and macro, in the year that he began to do this.

Next, after struggling for chastity for a time, upon a lapse, I invite them to observe carefully what phenomena develops in his world, both personally and macro, within a day or two of the lapse. If you are able to see it, it will be an eye-opener about how the world actually works, and what it actually is.

St. Paul said "Now we see through a glass, darkly." Clean up the glass and see how the picture changes.

It is a surprising proposition. It turns on its head everything we usually assume about the world; that "reality" is the external. But it tallies with the statements of a lot of amazing mystics. (Ramana Maharshi was one.) In this view the world is an illusion, no more substantial than a dream, and generated in precisely the same way that you generate night dreams. If you are the "chip" or "crystal" or "lens" that is projecting the world movie, things in you would appear in the world-movie in some form or another. That's the idea there. So we are our own world-blighters, and we can become our own world saviors.

How to change the world if we don't even understand what the world actually is and how it is generated?

Try it and see.

Dodge Viper
01-13-2007, 07:15 AM
It has been asserted that the reproductive fluids of the human male contain awesome creative and spiritual energies. Does it therefore follow that women and homosexuals who've managed to ingest, or absorb via some other orifice, copious amounts of semen, are god-like beings possessed of superhuman powers, or at the very least, extremely wise and enlightened yogis?
This question is a little lame, and of course this principle does not extend to a homosexual engaging in buggery.
The creative and spiritual energies inherent with the fluid occur upon respect for the vital substance, leaving it untouched to sit embedded in the male system for reabsorbtion into the blood-stream.
The problem for many dabblers and sincere aspirants is the lack of patience to heal the inflicted wounds of sexual excess, to allow the substance to settle in a secure position.
Many men never push past the primary stages of excess baggage and conflict down below.
The first few weeks are hard, the male will feel alot of baggage as the fluid continues to move and itch, this will naturally create tension and restlessness.
The body soon adjusts however, and takes charge of the fluid, naturally holding it tight and securely for its own benefit. Sex-desire falls away completely, and from here, the magic truly begins as the subtle power spreads gradually throughout, rejuvinating the body and mind, increasing as each day passes.

No doubt I will see a large quantity of tomatoes chucked in my direction.

Ahmadinebobina
01-13-2007, 12:59 PM
Yes. He also wants to pull away from others and be alone. His wife (woman) who once attracts him no longer does. In fact, the female suddenly repels us.

This goes both ways. For some of us, at least.

Female celibacy does not seem so important to you, Julian, or perhaps I need to have a look at your site again as i may have missed something...

EvilRosebuds
01-13-2007, 03:27 PM
It has been asserted that the reproductive fluids of the human male contain awesome creative and spiritual energies. Does it therefore follow that women and homosexuals who've managed to ingest, or absorb via some other orifice, copious amounts of semen, are god-like beings possessed of superhuman powers, or at the very least, extremely wise and enlightened yogis?

There isn't anything sacred about reproductive fluids. The human is just an animal that procreates. Why are you aiming this topic at celibates for? The Celibate who is celibate through choice has to go through certain will-power or has a belief that he/she follows which makes them special people.

Those people who are promiscuous and keep having sex are just weak and they're behaviour is no more than how lumps of bacteria behaves.

Mentious
01-13-2007, 04:48 PM
The thread is about the effects of a male conserving his male generative material. You don't have any. You also are unable to do anything similar.

Have you experienced long continence and retention of semen "Evil Rosebud"? :) Of course not. Did you get your profound opinion about the male semen from the same place you got your fortune telling system based on birth hours? (Which you just made up.) Or did some cow or pig whisper it in your ear? (You say that you are just an animal.)

I am sure that men should listen to a fictionalizing female who regards herself as just "an animal that procreates" for an understanding esoterica on the spiritual and metaphysical significance of conserving the male generative power. As to your question, "Why are you aiming this topic at celibates for?", um, go ask the cow to stand in for you. If he's male, he might come up with more sensible questions to answer. :)

By the way, if you are "just an animal that procreates," have you procreated yet? If not, why not? Don't all animals do it?

Hermetic
01-13-2007, 04:57 PM
Since the christian/catholic religion is a jewish weapon created by jews and aimed at the destruction and enslavement of the gentile world. It makes sense they would preach total celibacy for priests given the people who would be the priests where the more intelligent class so their genius dies out and the race becomes weak not to mention teaching white people that sex and sexuality in general are evil, as well as power and strenght is evil and weakness is virtue, because those things leads to increased virility and large strong families of White people, like in the Pagan world. Personal nature and all things of nature become evil and sinful. Thus making them torn against themselves and massively half crazy.

Christianity was the jews way of weakening the White Race from within the gates.

Christianity=Trojan horse of juadism.

Vasily Zaitsev
01-13-2007, 05:00 PM
Catholic priests were orignally permitted to marry and procreate. Orthodox clergy still are.

Celibacy was not made a requirement of the Catholic orders until the Western Church had become pretty thoroughly Europeanized.

Hermetic
01-13-2007, 05:04 PM
The jewish hand was in from day one, and the purpose behind the order for total celibacy was a evil one. The christian religion can never be Europeanized because it was and always will be a sect of juadism for gentiles.

Catholic priests were orignally allowed to marry and breed. Orthodox clergy still are.

Celibacy didn't become required of the Catholic orders until the Western Church had become pretty thoroughly Europeanized.

Mentious
01-13-2007, 05:05 PM
But they became celibate on becoming priests. That is a better system.

Vasily Zaitsev
01-13-2007, 05:15 PM
The jewish hand was in from day one, and the purpose behind the order for total celibacy was a evil one. The christian religion can never be Europeanized because it was and always will be a sect of juadism for gentiles.

I really don't know what to say to that... it's too far removed from reality to even be relevant.

The best I can do is recomment that you read The Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity by James Russell.

Vasily Zaitsev
01-13-2007, 05:20 PM
But they became celibate on becoming priests. That is a better system. But "breed" is not a better word.

I grew up in Iowa and "breeding" how farmers refer to the activities of their animals. :confused: Later, it became the way that feminists, anti-life nuts, and anti-family types started referring to human procreation for the purpose of aggressively demeaning same.

Actually, it wasn't until 1139AD that priestly celibacy became mandatory. Up until then priests could, and were, marrying and having intercourse. Celibacy was, however, encouraged due to customs pertaining to the Eucharist and ritual cleanliness.

I'll edit my original post to reflect your comments about semantics. "Procreate" is a better word.

Hermetic
01-13-2007, 05:21 PM
Yes christianity is too far removed from reality to be relevant sadly a billion jesusfreaks have created a powerful artifical reality by shear force of numbers.

All I have to do is read the "holy book" of lies called the bible to see itz jewishness.

I really don't know what to say to that... it's too far removed from reality to even be relevant.

The best I can do is recomment that you read The Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity by James Russell.

Hermetic
01-13-2007, 05:26 PM
If our parents and their parents before them.etc Had not have breeded/given in to their natural instincts which are the will to life that is drive of the Creator in us. We would not be alive right now. The flame of life is sexual and passionate/creative in nature. The christian religion is a attempt to snuff out this flame.

Mentious
01-13-2007, 07:11 PM
Female celibacy does not seem so important to you, Julian, or perhaps I need to have a look at your site again as i may have missed something...
It is for women to discover the secrets of female chastity and then teach it to other women. Not for me. Their ways are different.

At this point based on my experience, I don't even "believe" in female celibacy per se. I think it more against her very nature. I also don't believe she gets much out of it metaphysically, unless she is a religious devotee, in which case she does. In general, women benefit through celibacy, and from celibate men, indirectly not directly. But in that case, the benefit is just as great. That is my opinion.

There is a fantastic story illustrating this in The Yoga-Vasistha (a book full of imaginative illustrative tales) called "The Sage in the Rock." It's about a good wife who's husband has gone religious on her; gone mystical; gone celibate. It talks about all her confusion and frustration about this. In the end because she is devoted to him, loyal, and doesn't abandon him, she gets all of the benefits her husband is getting. She becomes like him, and becomes a cosmic knower and a mystic like him. She is a genuine case of wifely merging. The story also illustrates the principle that we become like whatever we are really devoted to.

This is, to me, one of the real feminine mysteries. But again, it's not my territory.

Dodge Viper
01-13-2007, 07:36 PM
99% of "religion" discussed at the Phora has absolutely nothing to do with *Religion* itself.

tempus fugit
01-13-2007, 07:53 PM
http://www.ktk.ru/~cm/contin.htm

Mentious
01-13-2007, 08:36 PM
Thank you Hawking! I am going to spend the rest of the day reading that. I am very excited by such new references. Here is more information (http://www.ktk.ru/~cm/info.htm) from the same site. I have posted a few excerpts for the edification of the men, with some comments in blue:

By Dr. R. W. Bernard, A.B., M.A., Ph.D.
HEALTH RESEARCH, MOKELUMNE HILL, CALIFORNIA 95245

An opinion has gained ground in modern times, not only among the general public, but also among physicians, that the belief in the physiological value of continence belongs to the dark ages of religious superstitions and scientific ignorance [Like the natural understanding, still intact up to 1955, that mother's milk is better for babies than cereals, until the helpful doctors got involved] and is incompatible with physiological knowledge. Certain pseudosexologists, have exploited this idea to their commercial advantage and have created in the public mind a phobia in regards to continence, which is regarded as a cause of nervous and mental diseases and a positive health danger...

A careful reading should, however, convince any open-minded reader that the above view is false, and that continence per se can never do harm, but is always beneficial...

...and that when trouble occurs in an individual not practicing normal sex relations, the fault is not continence but some vicarious means of sex expression, excessive nocturnal emissions, etc. [JL Comment: In other words, these doctors thought young men were having problems because of "too much chastity," when in fact they were dealing with masturbating cretins!]

http://julianlee.com/images/Beethoven2-150.jpg
Celibate

In view of the richness of the semen in lecithin, cholesterol, phosphorus and other constituents of nervous and brain tissue it is clear that it is incontinence, or loss of these valuable nerve- nourishing substances which, by promoting undernutrition, is responsible for disturbed functioning of the nervous system and brain and never true continence, contrary to the unscientific views of the psychoanalysts.

We have seen that the internal secretions of the sex glands stand at the basis of the individual's physical and mental vitality...

...and that sex hormones are present in the external as well as in the internal secretions of the gonads. Many of the effects attributed to such hormones, as we have seen, are due to the physiological effect of resorbed semen...

...Conservation of semen means conservation of sex hormones and increased vigor, while loss of semen means loss of hormones and diminished vitality...

http://julianlee.com/images/IsaacNewton1-150.jpg
Celibate

...also chronic deficiency of such hormones leads to the symptoms of senility, which Voronoff and Steinach strove to overcome by increasing the amount of sex hormones in the blood.

The semen is a viscid albuminous fluid, alkaline in reaction, which is very rich in calcium and phosphorus, also in lecithin, cholesterol, albumen, nucleoproteins, iron, vitamin E, etc.

In the ejaculation of the normal man, about 226 million spermatozoa are given off; these are rich in phosphorized fats (lecithin), cholesterol (the parent-source of sex hormones), nucleoproteins and iron.

An ounce of semen is considered to be equal in value to sixty ounces of blood...

...of which it constitutes an extract of some of its most valuable of constituents, as far as its vitalizing power is concerned.

...Dr. Frederick McCann remarks on this point, "From what has been stated it must be admitted that the spermatic fluid does possess potentialities justifying the belief of ancient writers concerning its vital properties.

http://julianlee.com/images/LeonardoDavinci1.jpg
Celibate

The semen contains substances of high physiological value especially in relation to the nutrition of the brain and nervous system. If resorption of semen through the wall of the female genital tract has a vitalizing effect on the female organism [Your wife's "after glow." Unless a nasty condom has been used, in which case the whole thing's an ignominious waste. See: "Semen Acts As an Anti-Depressant (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2457)"] the same should be the case in the body of the male in which it is formed and conserved.

And conversely, loss of semen must deprive the organism of vitality and valuable substances necessary for the nutrition of nervous tissue, such as lecithin, which has been used therapeutically with great success for the cure of neurasthenia resulting from sexual excess.

The following are among the many physiological evidences which demonstrate the value of continence:

1. There is a remarkable similarity of chemical composition between the semen and the central nervous system, both being especially rich in lecithin, cholesterin and phosphorus compounds, which would indicate that seminal emissions withdraw from the body substances necessary for the nutrition of nervous tissues.

2. Excessive voluntary seminal losses (through masturbation, coitus, coitus interruptus, and contraceptive practices) are debilitating and harmful to the body and brain. [I developed bronchitis through masturbation, and it comes back after I lapse. Like most men, I also lose my mental and emotional edge and vitality for a while after losing the generative material.]

http://julianlee.com/images/NikolaiTesla09-200.jpg
Celibate

3. Excessive involuntary seminal losses (through nocturnal emissions, diurnal emissions, spermatorrhea, etc.) are debilitating to the nervous system and may cause neurasthenia.

4. Observations of the immediate effects of the sexual orgasm indicate that it temporarily exhausts the nervous system, and when repeated too frequently leads to chronic nerve- weakness (sexual neurasthenia). [Translation: It makes you a timid schlep.]

5. Continence is beneficial to the brain (for conserved lecithin from retained semen is a true brain food.)

http://julianlee.com/images/Socrates.jpg
Socrates, Celibate

Hence some of the greatest intellectual geniuses in ancient and modern times led continent lives. These include:

Pythagoras,
Plato,
Aristotle,
Leonardo da Vinci,
Spinoza
Newton
Kant
Beethoven
Herbert Spencer, etc.

[I have to add in the great composers: [B]Handel, Schubert, and Bruckner, and Brahms. Chastity makes a man more creative because he is keeping nature's highest creative substance, and power, within him.]

The Genius of Johann Brahms, Celibate (http://www.icrcanada.org/brahms.html)

6. Recent physiological evidence, pointing to the fact that the seminal fluid contains substances of great physiological value (such as Poehl's Spermine, which is a nerve-stimulant, lecithin, cholesterin, vitamin E, male sex hormones, etc.) supports the idea that continence is beneficial to health...

...as do the experiments of Prof. Brown-Sequard on the vitalizing effects of testicular extracts and those of Prof. Steinach on the rejuvenation that follows the enforced conservation of semen through ligature of the efferent testicular duct.

7. Leading physiologists, urologists, genito-urinary specialists, neurologists, psychiatrists, sexologists, gynecologists and endocrinologists endorse the physiological value of continence. Among such authorities are Moll, Kraepelin, Marshall, Lydston, Talmey and others.

http://julianlee.com/images/JChristRedManly.jpg
Celibate
And according to the spiritual adepts, this ain't the half of it. It is sex energy at its more subtle level of "ojas," "orenda," etc. that is the more interesting side of continence.


http://julianlee.com/images/MarilynManson.jpg
Not celibate.

Dodge Viper
01-14-2007, 06:29 AM
hahaha, thats so funny with Marilyn Manson as a pasty dork at the bottom.
That was an excellent post Julian

Mentious
01-14-2007, 06:45 AM
Thank you. Your posts are excellent too, Nick.

Dodge Viper
01-14-2007, 07:23 AM
If our parents and their parents before them.etc Had not have breeded/given in to their natural instincts which are the will to life that is drive of the Creator in us. We would not be alive right now. The flame of life is sexual and passionate/creative in nature. The christian religion is a attempt to snuff out this flame.
Sorry to pick at your posts Vindex, but Celibate men do not preach the complete elimination of Sex in the world and society, and they never have.
The natural instinct is inherent in man for that exact purpose of bringing new life in the world.
The Celibate takes the view that the male gives up his precious seed as a gift for the sake of a new human life, but otherwise leaving this instinct to settle, with the power of the stored up energy through natural conservation lifting him on every level making him a greater Father and Husband.

I am Celibate, and I have a child. If I desired more children, I would trigger the subdued sex instinct within me for that reason.
Other than that, it remains hidden and secure.

Mentious
01-14-2007, 07:40 AM
Now ask him if he has any children.

The "flame of life" (sex) is only creative when children are produced. Otherwise its a perfidious waste.

Use sex energy then to make money, make music, write books, digest knowledge, get A's, penetrate secrets, create art and beauty, serve your wife and children, and be a better dad, lead men, wage war...

tempus fugit
01-14-2007, 07:44 AM
The "flame of life" (sex) is only creative in nature when children are produced.

Literally creative.

There is definitely something to celibacy/continence. I just doubt even hardcore folks have the ability to follow that path.

Personally, I'm becoming more continent, but not fully celibate.

Mentious
01-14-2007, 07:47 AM
Same with me. I just have longer and longer celibate periods.

That's the ticket. That's all it is. Master celibate periods. Just become more chaste. You'll learn everything.

Welcome to the brotherhood. :cool:

Hermetic
01-14-2007, 01:30 PM
Iam mainly in agreement with you here, the flame of life is sacred and to produce high born children of noble blood, is joy and duty to the Race, and thus gives life to the people who collectively and individually are the expression of the Creator.

Our Pagan ancestors felt and acted the same way, they married young and where expected to have as many strong, noble Aryan children as possible. Otherwise they where consider to be abnormal and exiled.

As for myself I have no children yet as Iam working on obtainment of a career so I can provide for them, and Iam also keeping a eye open for a high quality mate, but most chicks I do not pay attention to as they are low quality and not worth my time. Dispite they all flirt with me.lol

Now as I have stated before Telsa is a example of too much celibacy, also after reading Telsa's autobiography he was of a high genetic line his parents where high IQ creative geniuses and he was naturally also psychic to a extent and learned how to train his mind as a young man to overcome a certain problem he had.

But since he never had any children of his own and his brother was killed as a young man. There are no more Telsa's to carry on the high blood line, and our race has lost and been made a little more weak due to this. Who knows how many other such men as Telsa lines where lost due to the celibacy of the priesthood in the West lands. So I see him as a example of the need for a balance point.


Now ask him if he has any children.

The "flame of life" (sex) is only creative when children are produced. Otherwise its a perfidious waste.

Use sex energy then to make money, make music, write books, digest knowledge, get A's, penetrate secrets, create art and beauty, serve your wife and children, and be a better dad, lead men, wage war...

Hermetic
01-14-2007, 01:35 PM
I can not debate with that.

Sorry to pick at your posts Vindex, but Celibate men do not preach the complete elimination of Sex in the world and society, and they never have.
The natural instinct is inherent in man for that exact purpose of bringing new life in the world.
The Celibate takes the view that the male gives up his precious seed as a gift for the sake of a new human life, but otherwise leaving this instinct to settle, with the power of the stored up energy through natural conservation lifting him on every level making him a greater Father and Husband.

I am Celibate, and I have a child. If I desired more children, I would trigger the subdued sex instinct within me for that reason.
Other than that, it remains hidden and secure.

Lorcan
01-14-2007, 06:30 PM
Just as a matter of correction...

Socrates had three children, so hardly celibate.

DeVinci had an inordinate fondness for adolecent boys and was arrested on charges of sodomy when when he was 24 , probably not only not celibrate but also an avid player of balls on the other side of the pitch so to speak.
*Edit I remembered the name of the picture Angelo Incarnato which was validated as authentic and will go along way to indicating Leoanardo s prefrences. Regardless of his sexualty i have a great respect for the man.

Bethoven was very choosy about women but probably had a relationship with Dorothea von Ertmann and poured out tremendous passion in his music and immoratal beloved letters. Nobody is sure if the deafness was related to syphilis or not but he did definitely had lead poisoning when he died.He only wanted to marry a virgin aristrocrat so its unsupring as he ended up unmarried.

I dont get claiming Bethoven as celibate at all as apart from being unmarried he seemed to be a man with very normal and most probably expressed urges. There is no evidence he made a personal decision to practice celibacy and quite a lot to the contary.

In later life he was quite the rockstar and was alleged to have pissed on a piano during a live preformance.Quite mad ,perhaps mad enough to hear God,amazing man.


Tesla yes, Newton yes. Though Newton seems to have been quite mysoginist in outlook attacking people who "introduced" him to women.Tesla seems nearer the celibate mystic type.

tempus fugit
01-14-2007, 06:33 PM
I think those examples are of either celibate or continent individuals.

Kodos
01-14-2007, 08:29 PM
I've had a simmilar experience with prolonged (>10 days) periods of abstinence myself. I did not feel wiser, stronger or more at peace - I simply felt pissed off and irritable as hell, and completely incapable of concentrating on anything.

For one day you have a higher energy level...

After that you are just pissed off because you really want to jerk off again...

Mentious
01-14-2007, 08:36 PM
Just as a matter of correction...Socrates had three children, so hardly celibate.
Socrates became celibate after having children. That's the way to go. That's what I did, too. Is this difficult to grasp?

Almost no "celibate" was celibate lifelong. The only ones I have heard of were Sankara and Yogananda. Though I am sure there are many more in India.

If men could practice celibacy for even a month, or two months at a time, they'd be on a par with Beethoven and Socrates.

Keystone
01-14-2007, 08:48 PM
I don't have a problem with celibacy, it's the constant preoccupation with men's sperm that is strange. It's Queer, really.

Julian is always going on about it. Just shut up and don't screw anybody.

Mentious
01-14-2007, 09:03 PM
Julian is always going on about it.
I'm always "going on" about it?
Sir, in threads on celibacy I chime in with my opinion about celibacy. Would you prefer that I speak there about the care of orchids?

In threads on masturbation I chime in with my opinion about masturbation. You want me to stay out of threads on these subjects because my opinion discomfits you. Or what?
...it's the constant preoccupation with men's sperm that is strange. It's Queer, really.
Did you read the first post of this thread, which I did not start? The very subject of this thread is the male creative material. Are you saying we are talking too much about the male "sperm" in a thread about the male "sperm?" That is Queer, Really.

Or do you live under a bushel basket? Are you saying this is the least important or interesting subject in the world for men? If you were to see the netherworld many young men live in now, semen and its loss is a dominant feature of it. I probably receive 50 spams a day on the subject of sperm, whether pills to help you have more :confused: , or perverse inducements to lose it, or subject heads and photo links featuring men losing their mortal sperm in huge amounts. Based on my spam email, "sperm" seems to be the number one thing on men's minds today. It's definitely a subject that should be addressed, though I have never brought it up here.

Are you saying there are too many threads on this subject at Phora? I have not noticed many, and haven't started any. (Not that it's not an important subject.)

I think you are simply unaccustomed to my views.
I don't have a problem with celibacy...
Certainly to discuss the subject of celibacy (which you say you have "no problem" with), one naturally comes to the matter of the male generative substance. Without an understanding of that dimension, there is little motivation or detailed understanding which might motivate a young man to attempt some chastity.

Keystone
01-14-2007, 09:15 PM
In threads on masturbation I chime in with my opinion about masturbation. You want me to stay out of threads on these subjects, though I've studied the subject more than most?
Okay'....How do you study masturbation? LOL, strike that, I don't want to know.

The very subject of this thread is the male sperm. And I did not start the thread. Are you saying this is the least important or interesting subject in the world for men? (If you were to see the netherworld some young men live in today, semen is a very dominant feature of it. And I probably receive 50 spams a day on the subject of the sperm.)
:rofl: :rofl:

I don't see that netherworld, no. I don't choose to see it.
I think you are simply unaccustomed to my views.
I think you are as Queer as a $3 bill, and am accustomed to your view.

Mentious
01-14-2007, 09:22 PM
Okay'....How do you study masturbation?
Actually goofball, there is literature on the subject of masturbation and I cite some of it. But studying it from personal experience is also study frankly, along with the loss to one's wife, and perhaps the most authoritative study of all. I have always been open and frank about my past experiences and mistakes. I assume you have "studied" it a bit yourself. So get off your high horse.

I don't see that netherworld, no. I don't choose to see it.
That is a good in one way. But then you are obviously clueless about what is going on around you; you clearly don't care about what is happening to millions of young men, morally, because of internet porn.
I think you are as Queer as a $3 bill
I say go fuck yourself, sir. That is high slander and extreme flaming. And while you're at it, come say that to may face and I'll show you what sort I am.

I think you are a suppressed homosexual. Because only suppressed homosexuals throw than kind of slander around on web boards. Just like nervous sniping boys on a playground, they do that to obfuscate and deflect attention from their own state, which is shakey and doubtful.

Now let me analyze you further Mr. Keystone:

Your repressed homosexuality is why it gives you the heebee jeebees to have male sexuality discussed and can't handle frank adult guy talk. (Even where it's the subject of the thread.) If you're too queasy, shut your peeper and stay out of the thread.

Your suppressed homosexuality is also why you use baseball players for avatars. :) They turn you on, and you're trying to set up some "macho" credentials like Intrepid, right? That way, maybe nobody will expose you by saying "Keystone's gay!" -- something you deeply fear. Your handle, also, is obviously a homosexual Freudian slip. "Stone" to you represents the male phallus. You view the male phallus as your "key." You have the male organ on your mind. How Queer, Keystone. Both your phallic allusion, and the use of "stone" are more subconscious ways to try to present "male" credentials (can anyone hear Bob Seeger singing "Like a Rock" in that Ford commercial?) You are so easy to analyze.

I also believe that you bang your mother. It's just an impression I have about you. :) A psychic impression. I figured that about you a long time, but I was too nice of a guy to say anything. You really should go see a therapist, "Keystone."

Here: You can have some more smiley faces to use in your future posts: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

tempus fugit
01-14-2007, 10:01 PM
Gentlemen, the thread is in the Lyceum, and therefore is subject to higher standards of discourse.

Keystone
01-14-2007, 10:05 PM
Actually nitwit, there is literature on the subject of masturbation and I cite some of it. But studying it from personal experience is also "study" frankly, and perhaps the most authoritative study of all. I have always been open and frank about that past "study," goofball. I assume you have "studied" it a bit yourself. So get off your high horse.

That is a good thing. But you are obviously clueless about what is going on around you.

I say eat shit and go fuck yourself, sir. That is high slander and extreme flaming. And while you're at it, come say that to may face and I'll show you what sort I am.

I think you are a suppressed homosexual. Because only suppressed homosexuals throw than kind of slander around on web boards.
I'm not the one who's into astrology, poses for different avatars umpteen times and talks about sperm all the time.

HMMMM.
That's also why it gives you the heebee jeebees to have male sexuality discussed and can't handle frank guy talk. (Even where it's the subject of the thread.) Timid little boy. If you can't handle it, shut your peeper and stay out of the thread.
Frankly, the guy talk I run into doesn't involve each other's sperm.

Weirdo.

Mentious
01-14-2007, 10:10 PM
Gentlemen, the thread is in the Lyceum, and therefore is subject to higher standards of discourse.
O.K., then get Mr. Fagbright to retract his gross slander. I don't take that kind of shit from idiots. I consider the charge of homosexuality to be serious flaming, not to mention slander. Get this jerk to clean himself up. He is obviously no gentleman.
...and talks about sperm all the time.
The subject of this thread is sperm, moron. And there are few threads like it. As for me, I am sure less than 5% of my posts deal with that subject.
Frankly, the guy talk I run into doesn't involve each other's sperm.
Calm down. You are agitated, son. I enjoy more discussing music, compressor-limiters, Vedic philosophy, and gardening. But in a thread someone started on the very subject of the sperm I'm going to talk about sperm, get it? Your "guy talk" involves discussing clothes, restaurants, and hairdos no doubt. If you can't discuss the subject, get out of the thread.
Weirdo.
Mother-fucking faggot.

Keystone
01-14-2007, 10:15 PM
Your "guy talk" involves discussing clothes, restaurants, and hairdos no doubt.
No. Mostly wives, kids, cars, taxes, politicians....etc.
Withholding your sperm, no.

:rofl: :rofl:

Mother-fucking faggot.
:rofl: :rofl:

Mentious
01-14-2007, 10:18 PM
No. Mostly wives, kids, cars, taxes, politicians....etc.
Hah hah. Look at Mr. "Keystone" trying to hoist some "macho" credentials. What a joke.

I know about astrology -- along with many other things -- because I am a more intelligent man than you. And what does astrology have to do with the subject at hand, meathead?

I change my avatar a lot because it is fun. It only takes a few clicks, and my 'clicks' add something to these threads, whereas yours' do don't. Sorry if I am a much more creative man than you. Posting baseball players is about your speed. My daughters and I got a digital camera and have been having fun with it. I haven't had photos taken of me much in years. And I don't hide behind an anonymous baseball player like you.

Why did you post on a thread on the subject of semen if you are nervous talking about it?

And by all means, don't "withhold your sperm." That sounds terrible! How dare you, sir! It's bad for you. Especially not from your wife and mother. They might be displeased with you.

Lorcan
01-14-2007, 10:21 PM
Socrates became celibate after having children. That's the way to go. That's what I did, too. Is this difficult to grasp?


Lets see what the man himself says...

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.

As to marriage or celibacy, let a man take the course he will. He will be sure to repent.:)

-Socrates

Mentious
01-14-2007, 10:23 PM
There are some other words from Socrates on the subject of celibacy. His original advice to a questioner was to limit himself to one loss a year. When the questioner found that too strict, Socrates advised him to have a loss just once a month, commensurate with the natural loss of the female.

Don Quixote
01-14-2007, 10:33 PM
This is certainly a unique thread, even by Phora standards. I think it is a subject of no small importance in an age of porn and barren sex-worship. I agree with Julian in essence concerning the arid and life-hating nature of contemporary culture and its over sexualisation. I think people should take this subject seriously in this societal context.

Its not just about sperm and the spilling thereof, as if anyone would really want to talk about that in isolation from this deeper significance. I can understand that some people might be discomforted by the relative oddness of this train of thought and discussion. Perhaps its a sign of our alienation that we do find it odd whereas the collective wisdom of mankind has always known the deep importance of the kind of things that Julian and others have raised here.

It pains me to see two people I have regard for fighting like this, so
gentlemen, please, let's refocus and get back on topic.

Mentious
01-14-2007, 10:36 PM
This is certainly a unique thread, even by Phora standards. I think it is a subject of no small importance in an age of porn and barren sex-worship.
Absolutely, I salute you across the ocean.
Its not just about sperm and the spilling thereof, as if anyone would really want to talk about that in isolation from this deeper significance. I can understand that some people might be discomforted by the relative oddness of this train of thought and discussion. Perhaps its a sign of our alienation that we do find it odd whereas the collective wisdom of mankind has always known the deep importance of the kind of things that Julian and others have raised here.
That is beautiful. I see you have a lot of masculine understanding. I find that men who are most nervous about talking about it -- like KeyBone -- are the biggest wankers and "wife suck me" guys. It gives them tremors and quibbles to hear it being discussed. (Leave the matter of the male generative material to the pornographers, right Key? That will be splendid for all the young men out there.)

The handling of the sexual energy is at the heart of religion; the heart of social order; the heart of male power both personal and societal. The male generative material is certainly the physical embodiment of that power. In a real way, there is nothing more important or central in life than sex. We are in a Dark Age now in the male understanding of his own sexual nature and powers. If KeyBoner gets twinges and freaky streaks hearing men talk about the generative power -- the most significant thing in a man's life -- in a rational, positive way, she should fucking stay out of this thread. He came in here to deposit his little turd, and that's all she wrote.

It appears to me that the subject of the male semen is on the minds of men today, but taught to them by sick and perverse teachers -- the porn industry. Nobody is giving positive and helpful information on the subject to young men. That is why I wade into this mess (having to rub elbows with perverts like Keystone, Brandon Orr, etc.) to try to make a positive difference to young men who may read here.
It pains me to see two people I have regard for fighting like this, so
gentlemen, please, let's refocus and get back on topic.
Calling another man a homosexual, or hissing it like "Keystone," is high slander and serious flaming. It is gross moral defamation and nothing less. I would punch the bastard in the nose and break it if he were 10 feet from me. I treat knaves as knaves.

But you, Basil, are both a gentleman and a thoughtful man. I salute you indeed.

Keystone
01-14-2007, 10:47 PM
Absolutely, I salute you across the ocean.

Calling another man a homosexual, or hissing it like "Keystone," is high slander and serious flaming. I would punch the bastard in the nose and break it if he were just 10 feet from me now. I don't take that sort of shit from anybody. If he gets twinges and freaky streaks hearing men talk about the generative power -- the most important thing in their life -- she should fucking stay out of this thread.
Bah.

Sperm. That's all you ever talk about. As long as you've been posting here. And astrology.

I've held off this long because I'm a decent sort.

Keystone
01-14-2007, 10:55 PM
And by all means, don't even "withhold" your sperm Wanky-boy. It's bad for you. Especially not from your mother. She would be displeased with you. Then what you do?
You really are a weirdo, Julian.

Mentious
01-14-2007, 11:01 PM
Bah. Sperm. That's all you ever talk about. As long as you've been posting here.
Meathead, I have only talked about the male substance in threads explicitly on that very subject, threads started by others. Show me a thread that I started about the male generative material? Or even a place where I mentioned it, except in others' threads already devoted to the subject, Fruit Face?

You appear to be the one fixated on the fact that I have talked openly about it a little. There must be a reason that you are so squeamish about it. Saying that's "all" I talk about is a bizarre exaggeration implying you have an unbalanced reaction to it. I expect I deal with it in less than 5% of my posts. The rotten limbs that you want to keep covered, I am pulling the cover off. You tremulously recoil.

If you have no information or knowledge about it, nothing to add, and my knowledge makes you feel uncomfortable, that's not my fault. Stay out of threads that give you the quivers, Strange Blood.

(I seem to recall that strange comments were fulminating from your mouth here in my absence, as if my mere mention of the male creative material in a chat thread has scandalized you for life, dislodging stones in your little brain. :eek: )

Even if you had been correct (that I bring these things up), the subject of male sexuality -- including the central matter of his creative material -- is well worth talking about. Men should be talking about it more. You, junior, can just sit out in the lobby.
And astrology.
Likewise dunce, I do not mention astrology except on existing threads explicitly on the subject of astrology. And of these, not all. Only those that seem lame and need a boost. This doesn't count nitwits bringing up astrology, out of context, simply because I am in the thread. There was one exception on the Strom thread where I predicted the outcome of his trial, but I deleted that.

Other men start threads on astrology here, whereas I have never done so. I'd likewise guess that less than 5% of my posts are about astrology, even though I am a professional astrologer. See how restrained I am on that subject, meathead? My advice is to avoid astrology threads if they challenge your intellect. But don't lie and misrepresent the general subject matter of my posts.
You really are a weirdo, Julian.
I'm fine having knuckleheads call me "weirdo." It's better than being a repressed homosexual.
I've held off this long because I'm a decent sort.
A guy who does his mother can hardly be called a decent sort, "Keystone." I've held off blowing the whistle on you this long because I have compassion for meatheaded gays.

Sulla the Dictator
01-14-2007, 11:06 PM
Lets cut back on the flaming, Keystone AND Julian, if you please.

Ahknaton
01-14-2007, 11:07 PM
Hold your fire gentlemen (that could be a pro-celibacy motto :D). There's been enough flaming on this thread already so please calm down a bit.

I'm not going to go back and edit or delete your posts, but perhaps you can do so yourselves.

Keystone
01-14-2007, 11:07 PM
I have never talked about astrology except on threads explicitly on the subject of astrology, and only then when the posts seemed rather lame.
Oh, really?
I also believe that you bang your mother. It's just an impression I have about you. A psychic impression. I've figured that about you for a long time. You really should go see a therapist, "Keystone."
Gee, your psychic impressions weren't asked for, nor were they true.

Game, Set, Match.

You are neurotic about me because my opinions on moral continence make you queezy. I think your mother is calling you, faggot.
LOL. Whatever.

Fade the Butcher
01-14-2007, 11:14 PM
I'm moving this to the Lounge.

Fade the Butcher
01-14-2007, 11:18 PM
Hence some of the greatest intellectual geniuses in ancient and modern times led continent lives. These include:
Aristotle had a wife and children.

Keystone
01-14-2007, 11:19 PM
I'm moving this to the Lounge.
A guy who fucks his mother can hardly be called a decent sort, "Keystone."

Thank God for that. Julian is going porno.

Mentious
01-14-2007, 11:19 PM
Yeah, Keystone has really upgraded this thread with his suppression complex and "Queer" hissing.

You went porno, dirt mouth, and brought down the thread. I'll hand you thrice back any crap you hand out.
Thank God for that. Julian is going porno.
I pull the lid off porn, and off of rotted limbs, and I decry it. I talk about porn and sexuality frankly, rather than keeping it in the dark netherrealm, for the benefit of men. You, you pull your rotted limbs away tremulously and scamper for cover, hissing mordant calumny in your discomfiture as you go. You want porn covered up in the lives of men, protected. You want ignorance to reign over them, and don't move a limb to help them.

It was pornographic, dirt mouth, to accuse me of being a homosexual, and I gave it right back to you. To hell with you!

Fade the Butcher
01-14-2007, 11:22 PM
I think it is a subject of no small importance in an age of porn and barren sex-worship.

People have always been interested in sex. Modern politicians are actually quite modest in their sex lives compared to the vast harems of the caliphs and sultans or dozens of popes that come to mind. The only real difference is that modern man has more leisure time, better technology, and the freedom to indulge his carnal desires.

Keystone
01-14-2007, 11:23 PM
Now that the hissing homosexuals with sperm "issues" have arrived, I am done with this thread. Find some baseball fans and political news junkies to contribute here, I guess. "Keystone" has volunteered.
Well, the Buccos haven't made any off-season moves, and the Nutting family has taken over the ownership of the team.

No satisfaction there.

Sulla the Dictator
01-14-2007, 11:42 PM
Leonardo da Vinci


If by celibate you mean he was a practicing homosexual, then yes. He was celibate.

Fade the Butcher
01-14-2007, 11:43 PM
http://www.trivia-library.com/b/was-renaissance-artist-leonardo-da-vinci-gay-part-2.htm


LEONARDO DA VINCI


Maybe Yes, Maybe No:

In 1476 Leonardo and three other young Florentines were anonymously accused of committing sodomy with an angelically beautiful boy model and male prostitute named Jacopo Saltarelli. The Ufficiali di Notte e dei Monasteri, Florence's very sinister vice squad, frequently acted on such denunciations, which anyone could make without proof or even without revealing themselves, by dropping a note in a "suggestion box" called the tamburo. Leonardo was actually confined for two months and subjected to a grilling into his sexual life and thoughts that was quite as thorough as, and far more brutal than, a contemporary encounter group procedure. Eventually the charges were dropped without a trial.


The case for Leonardo's homosexuality rests first on this incident. Secondly, there is absolutely no trace of a woman in his life, but there was a series of beautiful boy apprentices of apparently little artistic talent. Finally, Sigmund Freud argued in his Leonardo da Vinci: A Study in Psychosexuality that the master was at least a repressed homosexual. Freud pointed to Leonardo's classic intense devotion to, not one, but two mothers (the second was his father's wife), and he fastened on a childhood dream which Leonardo recorded in which a vulture placed its tail in his mouth. Eureka! A fellatio wish if Freud ever saw one.


But Freud's argument is embarrassing to all but his most devoted disciples. It is probably his silliest book. As for the other evidence, it is purely circumstantial and very weak. Leonardo defended his solitary life very convincingly on artistic grounds. If the "Officials of the Night" with their indelicate methods decided not to prosecute a vulnerable young artist, then surely the "Saltarelli Case" must be thrown out of court today. As for the pretty boy apprentices, the literati and artists of Renaissance Italy, Leonardo among them, were wholly enraptured by Platonism and all things of ancient Greece. This included the cult of the youthful male, his idealization as humanity's physical, intellectual, and moral perfection.
Is this homosexual? Possibly, but not necessarily. We have no record as to whether or not Leonardo actually engaged in sexual activity with his male apprentices. The truth may well be something far more incredible to our times--that in fact Leonardo had no sex life at all.

Mentious
01-14-2007, 11:46 PM
I doubt that the charges are true. At least he was obviously continent most of his life. Profound creativity and continence go together. I have never heard of a homosexual producing great art, great symphonies, great science, or anything else great. Or certainly not a bleeder.

Lorcan
01-14-2007, 11:51 PM
I doubt that the charges are true. At least he was obviously continent most of his life. Profound creativity and continence go together. I have never heard of a homosexual producing great art, great symphonies, great science, or anything else great. Or certainly not a bleeder.

Michaelangelo was another great artist which had similar prolovilities,I would judge them by their art not their personal life myself.

As I posted earlier regarding Leonardo look at Angelo Incarnato

http://freeweb.supereva.com/flobert/images/Angelo-Incarnato-ok.jpg

Mentious
01-14-2007, 11:52 PM
Aristotle had a wife and children.
Sure. That does not mean he indulged himself often with her, used her as his ready whorehouse, and did not practice self restraint.
Michaelangelo was another great artist which had similar prolovilities,I would judge them by their art not their personal life myself. As I posted earlier regarding Leonardo look at Angelo Incarnato.
It is patently absurd to try to judge an artist's personal morality by his art instead of his actual personal life. Does not an artist try to draw all sorts of things? Didn't they draw cadavers, dissected organs, naked old women, rats, sexual things, everything? Meanwhile, is the male and his sexual power or arousal -- central as it is to life -- something that would be "off limits" to great artists who draw practically everything? You think they would only draw women in a sexual way?

I think an artist like Michelangelo who did NOT manage to draw at least one drawing of the male sexual organ in that state would show a lack of curiousity and artistic edge. That's all. In judging his moral state, his real personal life would be all that matters. Such a drawing gives no evidence of either homosexuality or incontinence.

Porn surfers today are now looking at the male phallus in erecto dilecto constantly. A young porn surfer today probably sees the erect male phallus in one month more times than Michelangelo saw in his life. Does that make them homosexuals?

Fade the Butcher
01-14-2007, 11:56 PM
Greek homosexuality

http://www.livius.org/ho-hz/homosexuality/homosexuality.html

Introduction

Violent debate, enthusiastic writings, shamefaced silence, flights of fantasy: few aspects of ancient society are so hotly contested as Greek pederasty, or -as we shall see below- homosexuality. Since the British classicist K.J. Dover published his influential book Greek Homosexuality in 1978, an avalanche of new studies has appeared. We can discern two approaches:
The historical approach: scholars are looking for the (hypothetical) roots of pederasty in very ancient initiation rites and try to reconstruct a development. Usually, a lot of fantasy is required, because our sources do not often refer to these ancient rites.

The synchronistic approach: scholars concentrate upon homosexuality in fifth and fourth-century Athens, where it was integral part of social life.
In the present article, we will use the second approach, although we won't ignore the first one. There are many sources of evidence: lyrical poetry, vases, statues, myths, philosophical treatises, speeches, inscriptions, medical texts, tragedies, comedies, curses (example), and anecdotes in which homosexual practices are mentioned, lauded, ignored, and sometimes discouraged.

The often outspoken poems and the philosophy of Plato (427-347) have resulted in our expression "Greek principles" to describe male homosexuality. Unfortunately, we know hardly anything about female homosexuality. Of course, this does not mean that it did not exist (cf. the lyrical poetess Sappho), but we simply don't know much about lesbianism. Therefore, in this article, we will have to focus on male homosexuality.

Let's start with the word "homosexual". It looks like an ancient Greek expression, but word and concept are modern inventions: the expression was coined in 1869 by the Hungarian physician Karoly Maria Benkert (1824-1882). It took several decades for the word to become current. In ancient Greece, there never was a word to describe homosexual practices: they were simply part of aphrodisia, love, which included men and women alike.

The French social critic and philosopher Michel Foucault (1926-1984) has asked whether our modern concept, which presupposes a psychological quality or a proclivity/identity, can be used to describe the situation in ancient Athens. Foucault's often-quoted answer is in the negative, because he assumes that the early nineteenth century was a discontinuity with the preceding history. And it is true: the Jewish and Christian attitudes and obsessions have never played a role in the sexual lives of the ancient Greeks. In their eyes, it was not despicable when a married man had affairs with boys, although the Athenians expected a man to have children -especially sons- with his lawful wife. The Athenian man was, according to Foucault, a macho, a penetrator, the one who forced others to do what he wanted them to do.

This view now seems outdated. Not all Athenian women have been passive and not all men were dominant. Prostitution, which was an important aspect of Athenian life, had little to do with male dominance; nor was -and this is important- Greek homosexuality restricted to pederastry between a dominant adult and a shy boy.

Those scholars who prefer the historical approach are convinced that pederasty originates in Dorian initiation rites. The Dorians were the last tribe to migrate to Greece, and they are usually described as real he-men with a very masculine culture. According to the proponents of this theory, pederasty came to being on the Dorian island Crete, where grown-up men used to kidnap adolescents. It is assumed that this practice spread from Crete to the Greek mainland. In the soldiers' city Sparta, it was not uncommon when a warrior took care of a recruit and stood next to him on the battlefield, where the two men bravely protected each other. Especially in aristocratic circles, pederasty is believed to have been common.
There are, indeed, a great many pictures on vases that show how an older lover, the erastes, courts a boy, the eromenos. They appear not to be of the same age: the erastes has a beard and plays an active role, whereas the adolescent has no beard and remains passive. He will never take an initiative, looks shy, and is believed not to have enjoyed the sexual union. His older lover reached an orgasm by anal or intercrural contact. ("Intercrural" means that the erastes moved his penis between the boy's thighs.) on a vase, you will never see a boy with an erection, even when his erastes touches his genitals. It is assumed by many modern scholars that as soon as the adolescent had a beard, the love affair had to be finished. He had to find an eromenos of his own.


It was certainly shameful when a man with a beard remained the passive partner (pathikos) and it was even worse when a man allowed himself to be penetrated by another grown-up man. The Greeks even had a pejorative expression for these people, whom were called kinaidoi. They were the targets of ridicule by the other citizens, especially comedy writers. For example, Aristophanes (c.445-c.380) shows them dressed like women, with a bra, a wig and a gown, and calls them euryprôktoi, "wide arses".
In this scholarly reconstruction of ancient sexual behavior, the older lover is presented as some sort of substitute father: he is there to help his beloved one on his way to manhood and maturity, and to initiate him in the customs of grown-up people. He showed his affection with little presents, like animals (a hare or cock), but also pieces of meat, a disk, a bottle of oil, a garland, a toy, or money. This type of love affair was, according to this modern theory, based upon (sexual) reciprocity.

Meanwhile, however, this image of "pedagogical pederasty" has been challenged by a series of important publications like Charles Hupperts' thesis Eros Dikaios (2000). It is now clear that homosexuality was not restricted to pederasty, and that we have to study our evidence more carefully.
For example, not every older erastes had a beard, and it turns out to be a modern fairy tale that the younger eromenos was never aroused. From literary sources, we know that boys had their own sexual feelings. The sixth-century Athenian poet Theognis, for example, complains about his lover's fickleness and promiscuity. Several vases show young men with an erect penis. Even when he pretends to shy away, he does not protest and does not obstruct his lover's attempt to court him.

Another objection to the traditional reconstruction of Athenian homosexuality is that there is simply no evidence that the presents shown on vases had any pedagogic or didactic value. They are just meant to seduce.

It also appears that the difference in age did not really matter. Not youth, but beauty was important. (The ancient ideal of male beauty: broad shoulders, large chest, muscles, a wasp's waist, protruding buttocks, big thighs, long calfs. A man's forehead was not supposed to be too high, the nose had to be straight, and he had to have a projecting lower lip, a round chin, hawk eyes, and hair like a lion. His genitals had to be small; men with big penises looked like monkeys.)

There are many pictures of boys courting boys, boys playing sexual games, and adult men having intercourse. Yet, the latter was probably unusual or not spoken about, because the passive partner (pathikos) was -as we have already seen- subject to ridicule.

It is not true that homosexual love for boys was an aristocratic phenomenon. The reportory of vase paintings does not change when, in 507 BCE, democracy was introduced in Athens. On the contrary, there appears to be an increase of pederastic and other homosexual representations.

We find many pictures of schools for martial arts, which often had a statue of the god Eros and where people exercised undressed. They were considered to be a fine place to meet one's lover. There was a law that prohibited grown-up men to stay near the dressing rooms, but if the behavior of the philosopher Socrates (469-399) is typical, this law was ignored. In fact, it seems that much of Athenian love life took place in public places: many vases show how people are looking when two people are having intercourse. There is not a single written statement that people objected to public sex. (Although it is possible that the vases are just as unrealistic as modern pornography - but see below.)

The schools for martial arts were not the only places to pick up a lover. There were brothels and casinos or kybeia. The port of Piraeus and the cemeteries outside the city seem to have been popular "cruising areas" as well, and the border between ordinary love and prostitution was arbitrary. (The difference is, of course, payment, but coins were a recent invention and in the early fifth century, attitudes towards money still had to develop.) Citizen boys often received money -as payment or as present?- which might cause some problems if they embarked upon a political career. But not everyone had this ambition or the possibility to play a decisive role in the People's Assembly.

Yet, a decent citizen was supposed not to sell his body, and in c.450 BCE, when the Athenian economy had become fully monetarized, a law was proposed that people who had once prostituted themselves could not run for an office. Someone who had once sold himself was believed to be capable of selling the interests of the community as well. From now on, we find no vase paintings on which the erastes offers money to an eromenos anymore, which shows that these paintings are more or less realistic representations of what actually happened.

Later, this law was no longer applied. In the fourth century, it was not uncommon when two grown-up men shared a home. There must have been jokes about these men, but obviously, they found this an acceptable prize to pay for living with their beloved one. There was a large discrepancy between the official morals, which were expressed in the ancient laws, and everyday life.

As we have seen, the traditional image of pedagogical pederasty is simply mistaken, so what is its origin? The answer is the philosophy of the Athenian Plato. He has painted a very remarkable picture of his teacher Socrates, who is shown -in Plato's own words- as boy crazy. When Socrates was in the company of beautiful boys, he lost his senses. Some sort of mania (divine madness) took possession of him and he was almost unable to resist it. He often complained about the fact that he was helpless towards adolescents, and said that he could only cope with the situation by asking difficult questions to these beautiful boys and teaching them philosophy. So, according to Plato, Socrates sublimated his passion.

This is not just Plato's portrayal of his admired teacher. That Socrates was well-known for this attitude is more or less confirmed by another student, the mercenary leader and author Xenophon (c.430-c.354). He informs us that his master, when challenged by the presence of a good looking adolescent, remained capable of self-control, but took some measures. He did not allow the boy to embrace him, comparing his kisses to spider's bites. Sexuality and other physical contact between teacher and student were simply unacceptable. This is a bolder portrayal than that of Plato (whose Socrates sometimes yielded to the temptation), but both writers agree that their master believed that the contacts between erastes and eromenos could not only be aimed at sexual love, but also at obtaining moral wisdom and strength. A rather remarkable educational ideal.

In this context, Socrates/Plato introduces an influential metaphor. Procreation, he says, can be earthly and spiritual, just like love. After all, love can be physical -aimed at the beautiful body of a boy- and spiritual, which he believes is on a higher level. This last type of love can be described as longing for something good and possessing it. The true erastes will prefer the beauty of the soul above that of the body. Instead of a material/earthly parenthood (the procreation of children) he prefers the spiritual type, which is the creation of virtue and knowledge. According to Socrates/Plato, the eromenos' understanding grows and in the end, he will be able to see a beauty that is above all earthly standards, compared to which even the most beautiful boy is nothing. In other words, by spiritually loving a beautiful beloved, the lover reaches an understanding of absolute beauty. Philosophy is, therefore, an erotical enterprise.

It should be added that for Plato, the only type of real love is the love between two men, and he has dedicated two of his dialogues to that subject: the Symposium and the Phaedrus. After all, homo-erotic love is related to education and gaining knowledge, and this makes it superior to other types of love.

In 399 BCE, Socrates was executed on a charge of corrupting the Athenian youth. This is a bit mysterious, because there was no Athenian law that said that people who taught bad ideas to young people ought to be killed. Socrates can not have been guilty of breaking any written law. However, his fellow-citizens have interpreted this "corruption of the youth" as a sexual corruption: they took literally Socrates' metaphor that he loved boys, and this was indeed breaking the old law of 450 (above) that forbade young citizens to sell themselves. Correctly or not, Socrates was held responsible for inducing boys to prostitution.

Plato has tried to take away the blame from Socrates by pointing at his sincere and spiritual aims. In another context, he presents his master as saying that men who play the passive role are guilty of despicable and rampant behavior. After all, Socrates/Plato says, these men behave like women and are slaves of their passions. In the dialogue called Gorgias, Socrates declares that he is against all kinds of excessive sexual acts, and in Plato's main work, The State, Socrates even rejects all kinds of physical contact as some sort of unbridled behavior: the good lover treats his beloved one as a father treats his son.

It can not be said whether Plato's description of Socrates' ideas and behavior correspond to what Socrates really said and did. What we do know, however, is that it was at odds with common behavior in ancient Athens.

Sulla the Dictator
01-14-2007, 11:58 PM
I doubt that the charges are true.


http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/artists/leonardo_da_vinci/leonardo_john_the_baptist.jpg


I have never heard of a homosexual producing great art, great symphonies, great science, or anything else great. Or certainly not a bleeder.

Thats obviously false. Michelangelo and Da Vinci are just two examples. As to 'bleeder', Mozart was a notorious sex hound.

I suspect MOST artists, writers, and composers were sexual beings.

Fade the Butcher
01-15-2007, 12:02 AM
Rome is on HBO.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 12:04 AM
The French author Honore de Balzac, after having an, um, 'creative loss,' used to lament:

"There goes another novel!"

I tried to speak euphemistically there for the "sensitive" ears of Keybone.

Sulla the Dictator
01-15-2007, 12:04 AM
Rome is on HBO.

New episode at 6 pm. Its going to be awesome.

Lorcan
01-15-2007, 12:07 AM
New episode at 6 pm. Its going to be awesome.

Off topic, is it worth ordering on DVD or not?

Sulla the Dictator
01-15-2007, 12:11 AM
The French author Honore de Balzac, after having an, um, 'creative loss,' used to lament:

"There goes another novel!"


Which is, of course, nonsense. The body purges itself of semen on a regular basis. Sexual activity 'steals' your 'power' as much as a 12 minute mile, or a half hour of weight lifting.

IE, not at all.

Sulla the Dictator
01-15-2007, 12:12 AM
Off topic, is it worth ordering on DVD or not?

Yes. It is the best TV show in the history of the medium. Despite the historical inaccuracies, it is probably the MOST historically accurate TV show ever made.

Keystone
01-15-2007, 12:15 AM
Which is, of course, nonsense. The body purges itself of semen on a regular basis. Sexual activity 'steals' your 'power' as much as a 12 minute mile, or a half hour of weight lifting.

IE, not at all.
As a trip to your urologist would tell you.

"Retaining" your jizz is a superstition, best left to witch-doctors.

Der Sozialist
01-15-2007, 12:16 AM
I doubt that the charges are true. At least he was obviously continent most of his life. Profound creativity and continence go together. I have never heard of a homosexual producing great art, great symphonies, great science, or anything else great. Or certainly not a bleeder.

John Nash, from the film a beautiful mind, was a bisexual and he regularly engaged in homosexual intercourse with his colleges.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 12:22 AM
Which is, of course, nonsense. The body purges itself of semen on a regular basis. Sexual activity 'steals' your 'power' as much as a 12 minute mile, or a half hour of weight lifting. IE, not at all.
That's what they teach in the Church of Las Vegas, I know. But Honore de Balzac was a greater wit than you.

One should always get guidance for his life from his "Urologist." Scientists, after all, know everything. And they never change their opinion like the wind.

But men who refer to their creative material as "jiz" are abominable lowlifes. Not even worthy of a response.

Bleed on knaves.

tempus fugit
01-15-2007, 12:30 AM
John Nash, from the film a beautiful mind, was a bisexual and he regularly engaged in homosexual intercourse with his colleges.

As I understand it, both John and his wife Alicia denied that accusation after a biography of Nash stated such.

Der Sozialist
01-15-2007, 12:35 AM
As I understand it, both John and his wife Alicia denied that accusation after a biography of Nash stated such.
John Nash has had multiple bisexual encounters—as is documented Sylvia Nasar. John Nash has denied being a bisexual, however—not the encounters.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 12:38 AM
You are raining on Der Sociopath's parade. He was so eager to get guidance and inspiration from a queer.

Last night he was getting inspiration from two negro murderers, who weren't at all likely to rape a White female they abducted after shooting and burning her boyfriend to death.

But back to the subject: Notice that the "beautiful mind" guy turned out crazy. That fact is highly relevant here.

Mental instability and nervous exhaustion have long been linked to the male sexual loss by anybody with two eyes and a brain. So the nutcase aspect of "Beautiful Mind" proves the case for continence. If the guy had not been a sperm bleeder, he would have been a great mathematician without being a nutcase.

Der Sozialist
01-15-2007, 12:43 AM
Also, the fact that the guy was crazy is highly relevant. Mental instability and nervous exhaustion have long been linked to the male sexual loss. So the nutcase aspect of "Beautiful Mind" proves the case for continence. If the guy had not been a sperm bleeder, he would have been a great mathematician without being a nutcase.
All of the documented episodes occurred after 58 which is when Nash started showing signs of mental instability from his, then undiagnosed, schizophrenia. I should also point out that his son was diagnosed with schizophrenia and he was not a bisexual to my knowledge.

Not to mention that most great mathematicians have had to deal with mental instability and disease. Whether they were sexually active or not.

You are raining on Der Sociopath's parade. He was so eager to get guidance and inspiration from a queer.


This is an ad hominem.

Lorcan
01-15-2007, 12:44 AM
I doubt that the charges are true. At least he was obviously continent most of his life. Profound creativity and continence go together. I have never heard of a homosexual producing great art, great symphonies, great science, or anything else great. Or certainly not a bleeder.


What about Tchaikovsky ?
He had definite homosexual tendencies, the entirety of the Pathetique symphony was written to (or about) the relationship with his nephew. I don’t think its realistic to say that tendencies homosexuality necessarily precludes individuals from greatness. If you are going to talk about the effect of homosexual culture that is a different matter entirely and I will agree in its modern form it is extremely destructive.

Der Sozialist
01-15-2007, 12:44 AM
Last night he was getting inspiration from two negro murderers, who weren't at all likely to rape a White female they abducted after shooting and burning her boyfriend to death.


I was giving alternate hypothetical scenarios when I was asked why they would abduct a woman for 4 days. Certainly, assuming rape should not be the default position.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 12:45 AM
All of the documented episodes occurred after 58 which is when Nash started showing signs of mental instability from his, then undiagnosed, schizophrenia.
Perfect match then. He starts hemmoraging the creative material; he comes out crazy. "Undiagnosed" just means that it had not emerged into reality yet in any definable way. Your own future bizarre condition is also "undiagnosed" at the moment. The sages of India certainly link the creative loss to schizophrenia, and all manner of mental disorder. Everything is working here. Easy to make "beautiful mind" a new object lesson for moral continence.
Not to mention that most great mathematicians have had to deal with mental instability and disease.
That's a very interesting statement. It's like, a job risk that you'll be crazy if you become a mathematician? And it gives them diseases? You're making this up, right?
Whether they were sexually active or not.
And now you have logs on the sexual activities of mathematicians? :confused:

Lorcan
01-15-2007, 12:56 AM
Alan Turing might be a better example than Nash.

Der Sozialist
01-15-2007, 01:01 AM
That's a very interesting statement. It's like, a job risk that you'll be crazy if you become a mathematician? And it gives them diseases? You're making this up, right?

From my knowledge of the biographies of famous mathematicians—I have noted that mental illness appears much more in their fates then that of non-mathematicians. Also, anecdotal experience, something you champion. BTW, do you know why Heisenberg decided to become a physicist versus a mathematician?

And now you have logs on the sexual activities of mathematicians? :confused:
I doubt Galois, Erdos, Goedel, etc. were sexually active. To answer the question: no.

Hermetic
01-15-2007, 01:06 AM
It would make sense they would develop mental issues, people who are heavy in the air element or intelligence department seem to always end up with problems of the mind.

Der Sozialist
01-15-2007, 01:07 AM
I doubt Galois, Erdos, Goedel, etc. were sexually active. To answer the question: no.
Theodore Kaczynski is another example.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 01:07 AM
Thank you. O.K. It's very interesting if mathematicians in fact tend to be nutty. If you have studied them a lot I won't argue with you.

Lorcan
01-15-2007, 01:11 AM
Thank you. O.K. It's very interesting that mathematecians would tend to be nutty. If you have studied them a lot I won't argue with you.

The one major trend which has been studied is a link between poets and manic depression.

Physicists seem more "normal" than mathematicians on the upper end of the scale which is a little odd as the disciplines are not overtly different.

Intrepid
01-15-2007, 02:22 AM
Actually nitwit, there is literature on the subject of masturbation and I cite some of it. But studying it from personal experience is also "study" frankly, along with the loss to one's wife, and perhaps the most authoritative study of all. I have always been open and frank about that past "study," goofball. I assume you have "studied" it a bit yourself. So get off your high horse.

That is a good thing. But you are obviously clueless about what is going on around you.

I say eat shit and go fuck yourself, sir. That is high slander and extreme flaming. And while you're at it, come say that to may face and I'll show you what sort I am.

I think you are a suppressed homosexual. Because only suppressed homosexuals throw than kind of slander around on web boards. Just like nervous sniping boys on a playground, they do that to obfuscate and deflect attention from their own state, which is shakey and doubtful.

That's also why it gives you the heebee jeebees to have male sexuality discussed and can't handle frank guy talk. (Even where it's the subject of the thread.) Timid little boy. If you can't handle it, shut your peeper and stay out of the thread.

Your suppressed homosexuality is also why you use baseball players for avatars. :) They turn you on, and you're trying to set up some "macho" credentials like Intrepid, right? That way, maybe nobody will expose you by saying "Keystone's gay!" -- something you deeply fear. Your handle, also, is obviously a homosexual Freudian slip. "Stone" to you represents the male phallus. You view the male phallus as your "key." You have the male organ on your mind. That's very, Queer, Keystone. Both your phallic allusion, and the use of "stone" are more subconscious ways to try to present "male" credentials (can anyone hear Bob Seeger singing "Like a Rock" in that Ford commercial?) You are so fucking easy to analyze. :rofl:

I also believe that you bang your mother. It's just an impression I have about you. :) A psychic impression. I've figured that about you for a long time. You really should go see a therapist, "Keystone."


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


How could Mr. Keystone have fooled us all for years now?

I'm glad your evenkeeled, well-tempered usage of the English tongue has brought this to the forefront so eloquently. Truly, this is what I call insightful analysis. Your keen, steely-eyed perception thru his clever baseball ruse has changed my opinion of you entirely.

Sheer genius!

Bravo!


Mother-fucking faggot....

And by all means, don't even "withhold" your sperm Wanky-boy. It's bad for you. Especially not from your mother. She would be displeased with you. Then what you do?

A guy who fucks his mother can hardly be called a decent sort, "Keystone."

Maintain the moral high ground, JL. As a man of such great moral sinew, its lofty heights obviously are befitting.

God bless you.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 02:40 AM
Probably the same way you are still fooling 'em.

I knew that the "boys in the band" would be showing up in this thread. ;) This one is expressing dismay that I didn't talk sweet and nice to his hissing partner. Isn't "Intrepid" cute when he hisses? "Fag yelling" -- your stock-and-trade, always draws you out, doesn't it.

The high ground is a great place to walk, viper. It's a great vantage for stepping on snakes, with whom one should never be gentle.

Intrepid
01-15-2007, 02:55 AM
Probably the same way you are still fooling 'em.

I knew that the "boys in the band" would be showing up in this thread. ;) This one is expressing dismay that I didn't talk sweet and nice to his hissing partner. Ain't he coy and dear?

The high ground is a great place to walk. It's a great vantage for stepping on vipers, with whom one should never be gentle.

Why the need for this strident barrage of nigger-mouthed animosity directed at Key, JL? He's the Mr. Rogers of fringe, right wing forums, after all. A voice of the common man, of Hearth and Home, baseball...

Shame on you.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 02:58 AM
I hand back like for like. Both he, and you, shouldn't dish out calumny if you can't take it. I keep it clean until jerks dirty things up. Then I use language that jerks can understand. If you and he don't like it, you shouldn't start it.

Sulla the Dictator
01-15-2007, 03:09 AM
Honore de Balzac was a greater wit than you, Mr. Las Vegas.


Who cares? He knows fuck all about the effect of sex on the human brain or the human nervous system.

And I'm telling you, ejaculate isn't some treasure. Its mucus containing replacable genetic material.

Der Sozialist
01-15-2007, 03:13 AM
Thank you. O.K. It's very interesting that mathematecians would tend to be nutty. If you have studied them a lot I won't argue with you.
It is not all that strange or difficult to imagine, if you ever have been exposed to upper-level mathematics. It is quite to difficult to describe especially since non-mathematicians have very little idea of what upper-level courses in mathematics look like—they usually envision some complex-convoluted Calculus.
I was, last semester (and still am—the course is a year in length) a near-graduate level Algebra course (my university has a 300, 400, and 500 sequence and I took the 500 sequence which is more or less the honors version of the 400—I also took a 500 level Analysis class which I am continuing during this semester) where we did for example, Galois theory, Ring extensions, Tensor products, modules over PIDs, Hillbert’s Nullstellensatz, Symmetric and Exterior products, etc.

Before then, I had only dabbled with proofs before in Linear Algebra and Honors Multivariate Calculus, for example. However, during last semester I was finally exposed to true abstract mathematics. I did well—earning an A and scoring the highest grade on the final. However, I would be lying if I said that I didn’t work for the grade.

During the semester, I noticed a visible shift in my behavior. I became drastically less social. I often have had a difficult habit of looking people in the eyes during childhood, this subsided as the years went by but during the semester, this habit amplified. I began to dream about proofs—as absurd as this sounds but it is true.

I never noticed this with Physics and I have taken courses at the 400 level. Physics, in all of its difficulty, always seems tangible but it is often difficult to see the physical significance of Sylow-p-subgroups (off course there is, and I finally thought of a great analog of how the set of all permutations into that very set when restricted with p^k elements are normal with respect to each other)—let’s say.

Basically, all good mathematicians become detached from reality.

Intrepid
01-15-2007, 03:17 AM
I hand back like for like. Both he, and you, shouldn't dish out calumny if you can't take it.

He hurt your pride. I understand, believe me, I do. There was no need to infer he performed incestual acts with the woman who gave him birth, however, was there? This saddens me, as it's far beneath the high intellectual and moral bar you've consistently set for yourself here.

I keep it clean until jerks first dirty me up.

Is this one of your philosophical tenants for clean living?

Please elaborate, if you'd be so kind.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 04:06 AM
I was giving alternate hypothetical scenarios when I was asked why they would abduct a woman for 4 days. Certainly, assuming rape should not be the default position.
ASSUMING RAPE SHOULD INDEED BE THE DEFAULT POSITION WHEN A WHITE WOMAN IS KIDNAPPED BY NEGROES. Especially when they shoot and burn his boyfriend.

What are you, out of your mind?

Mentious
01-15-2007, 04:07 AM
Who cares? He knows fuck all about the effect of sex on the human brain or the human nervous system.
Honore de Balzac obviously knew himself and his own creative dynamics. He knew his own mind and nervous system, creative moods and flux. Are you like Helios and want to "ask a scientist" how you feel? And I would rather hear the writer de Balzac's opinion on the effects of the procreative loss than hear yours for some reason. And yours has already been posited here, while his was missing.
And I'm telling you, ejaculate isn't some treasure.
Yipes. That's an awful word. But O.K., in your case I'll agree.:whip:

Der Sozialist
01-15-2007, 04:09 AM
What are you, out of your mind?
Perhaps, but to clarify, my speculations were intended to illustrate that other reasonable possibilities exist. I was not trying to defend these people or mitigate their crime.

I apologize if I sounded crass.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 04:10 AM
This saddens me...
Cute.
...as it's far beneath the high intellectual and moral bar you've consistently set for yourself here.
I can hear you lisping with sincerity. I'm blushing.
Is this one of your philosophical tenets for clean living?
What? Beating snakes with a stick? Definitely. It's my first tenet for clean living.
Please elaborate, if you'd be so kind.
You're a moralist and a philosopher now? And I'm supposed to be 'kind' to hissing vipers in anonymous postings who pratice random character assassination?

Sulla the Dictator
01-15-2007, 04:12 AM
ASSUMING RAPE SHOULD INDEED BE THE DEFAULT POSITION WHEN A WHITE WOMAN IS KIDNAPPED BY NEGROES. Especially when they shoot and burn his boyfriend.

What are you, out of your mind?

This is a double standard. In the Kevin Strom thread you were demanding "innocent until proven guilty" and coming up with implausible scenarios to suggest he was being railroaded.

Is it natural for me to assume that people who shoot a man and kidnap a woman would rape that woman? Of course. BUT the trial system is there to determine if the accused DID that. And beyond this, you're saying that the DEFAULT position should be to assume guilt when 'negros' are involved.

When it is in fact inarguable that sometimes, a black man will be arrested for a crime that he did not commit. (Before we get the Nutzis in a roar, this does not mean a 'white person' commited the crime or any other racial group, simply that the individual in question might not have) Thats just how the laws of averages work.

Would you be a fair juror, considering your POV?

Mentious
01-15-2007, 04:14 AM
Perhaps, but to clarify, my speculations were intended to illustrate that other reasonable possibilities exist. I was not trying to defend these people or mitigate their crime. I apologize if I sounded crass.
Well, apology accepted. But tell me, why did you stoop and stretch so far to try to give "the benefit of the doubt" to obviously dangerous characters in the middle of a very aggressive crime? Blacks routinely rape White women in those situations. Are you from some other country? Culture? Are you unaware of the everyday news in the U.S. I am asking sincerely.

Der Sozialist
01-15-2007, 04:27 AM
Are you unaware of the everyday news in the U.S. I am asking sincerely.
I am aware of the statistics. However, my behavior on that thread was fueled from making a point using a poor analog. After my initial post, which was made after only reading the first two lines of the article where they were identified as "suspects"—I was merely defending my position. It was stubborn, and in hindsight, I would not have used that situation to make the point.

Dodge Viper
01-15-2007, 06:43 AM
What on earth happened to this thread? That was all really depressing to read.
Calm down chaps.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 07:23 AM
I think it was a great thread until the trash talkers arrived with nothing to contribute but mordant hissing and gay-activist slander. You have to deal with those types forthrightly, feeding their garbage back to them, so it gets unpleasant for a while.

Ahknaton
01-15-2007, 07:58 AM
This is a double standard. In the Kevin Strom thread you were demanding "innocent until proven guilty" and coming up with implausible scenarios to suggest he was being railroaded.

Is it natural for me to assume that people who shoot a man and kidnap a woman would rape that woman? Of course. BUT the trial system is there to determine if the accused DID that. And beyond this, you're saying that the DEFAULT position should be to assume guilt when 'negros' are involved.

When it is in fact inarguable that sometimes, a black man will be arrested for a crime that he did not commit. (Before we get the Nutzis in a roar, this does not mean a 'white person' commited the crime or any other racial group, simply that the individual in question might not have) Thats just how the laws of averages work.

Would you be a fair juror, considering your POV?
We're not jurors deliberating in a trial, we're posting on a message board. Horses for courses. Obviously when it comes to the law, "innocent until proven guilty" is the maxim. However in other circumstances, "what is most probable" is more relevant than "what is proven beyond reasonable doubt". In the event, Julian & co were unfortunately correct in their assumptions.

Kriger
01-15-2007, 08:07 AM
I have long held a theory that less frequent loss of semen contributes to stronger healthier offspring. My theory is a purely subjective one as I have no frame of reference for this other than my own relationship with the wife.

The wife and I have always enjoyed our intimate times with each other, but this has only been a mere fraction of our time spent together. It has never been the basis of our relationship.

Even in the earliest stages of our marriage, it was an average of once or twice a week. I do not or have not masturbated, but use control in the form of mind over matter. I do not have sexual relations with any other than the wife.

By the same token, I have strong healthy children who have strong healthy children. My children also do not place emphasis on the frequency of sex as an indication of virility or normalness or whatever.

Ahknaton
01-15-2007, 08:17 AM
One myth that I object to is the notion that early-onset male pattern baldness is the result of excessive masturbation. That's a damn lie!

Mentious
01-15-2007, 08:20 AM
Indeed, it's a lie.

Bamse: The theory is very interesting. I haven't heard of of it per se. But the Hindus believe that a man is given a certain amount of "life force" in each life, and that it is expended with each orgasm. I believe -- I'm not sure -- that Tibetan Buddhists have a similar teaching. It could mean, then, that fewer losses mean more life force behind each successful pregnancy. Interesting!

Bamse's post is really inspiring. I really respect you Bamse. Wish I could have been so successful in family life. Much luck and honor to your family and your offspring!

--Julian

Kriger
01-15-2007, 08:31 AM
Indeed, it's a lie.

Bamse's post is really inspiring. I really respect you Bamse. Wish I could have been so successful in family life. Much luck and honor to your family and your offspring!

--Julian

Thank you, Julian.

I was very fortunate in that I was raised in a family who held to these traditional viewpoints for as far back as the family can recall.

Believe me when I say that my childhood friends kidded me at times unmercifully for having and upholding these views. I learned to laugh and shrug it off.

To put it bluntly, while they were f...ing their brains out, I was seeking a harmonious mate and building a career for the future family to be supported on. I do not regret one moment of this.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 08:49 AM
The Ozarks get to be a more beautiful place in my mind all the time. :)

Ahknaton
01-15-2007, 09:13 AM
These days, whenever I feel the urge to have a "release" I hear Julian's voice from his website in my head saying "....Use the force, Luke....". It's really spooky.

:starwars:

Mentious
01-15-2007, 09:16 AM
The force is with you, son. :crusader:

http://julianlee.com/images/ObiWan2.jpg

Use The Force, Ahkster!

Helios Panoptes
01-15-2007, 01:37 PM
If men could practice celibacy for even a month, or two months at a time, they'd be on a par with Beethoven and Socrates.

I hate to get involved in this thread again, but it is patently false that someone could compose music on par with Beethoven's if he were only celibate for a couple months.

Helios Panoptes
01-15-2007, 01:46 PM
Perfect match then. He starts hemmoraging the creative material; he comes out crazy. "Undiagnosed" just means that it had not emerged into reality yet in any definable way. Your own future bizarre condition is also "undiagnosed" at the moment. The sages of India certainly link the creative loss to schizophrenia, and all manner of mental disorder. Everything is working here. Easy to make "beautiful mind" a new object lesson for moral continence.

The overwhelming majority of men "hemorrhage the creative material" yet they do not suffer from schizophrenia. You're picking out one variable that most men share in common and another variable which very few do, then saying that the former causes the latter. I would call this reasoning specious, but it is not even plausible at first glance. It's like saying nose picking causes brain cancer because we can cite a handful of individuals who picked their noses and contracted brain cancer.

tempus fugit
01-15-2007, 02:17 PM
I hate to get involved in this thread again, but it is patently false that someone could compose music on par with Beethoven's if he were only celibate for a couple months.

I think he said for a month or two months at a time. Meaning repeatedly.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 04:19 PM
Hawking got it right. See what just a short period of continence can do for a man's mind, Helios?
I hate to get involved in this thread again, but it is patently false that someone could compose music on par with Beethoven's if he were only celibate for a couple months.
You are misrepresenting the statement, Helios. Go back and read it. Or, here it is:

If men could practice celibacy for even a month, or two months at a time, they'd be on a par with Beethoven and Socrates.
--also--
"Almost no "celibate" was celibate lifelong. The only ones I have heard of were Sankara and Yogananda. Though I am sure there are many more in India.
I did not mean doing it, or having a 1- or 2-month celibate period, only once in one's life. :confused:

The statement is an attempt to disencumber men here from the blind malady that says you can't get benefits from celibacy thru a celibate trend, or through periods of celibacy. The more metal is exposed to fire the warmer it gets, and the more a man practices celibate periods, the more benefit he gets. "Celibacy" does not mean a total life attainment from the age of 0 to the grave. I say that Socrates was celibate and they pipe up that Socrates had children, that Beethoven had a mistress, etc. etc. They have this little mental problem.

Long periods of celibacy -- such as what I cited in the quote you misapprehended -- do give attainments of celibacy. Men need to get that through their heads. I said if men could "practice" celibacy, even in periods of one to two months, (which may in fact be the kind of attainment they had), they'd develop to be "on a par" with these other great men. I did not say they would "compose music" particularly.

It amazes me how your mind could misrepresent plain English like that. It makes me think your head fills with water when discussing this subject.

Now your comment on the "Beautiful Mind" conversations:
The overwhelming majority of men "hemorrhage the creative material" yet they do not suffer from schizophrenia.
(Background: Earlier we we're talking about the mathematician in "Beautiful Mind" who someone raised up as an example of a "genius" who was a sexer. I pointed out that he was crazy, mentally flawed, which sort of ruined his argument and proved mine.) Now my response to your comment:

Mathematics is heavy mental work. The Indian sages would say that heavy mental work takes up a lot of life force, or "shakti." Some would say it uses a lot of prana. So the mathematician would be using up more of this life force than the average Joe. Earlier posts suggest that mathematicians tend toward mentally instability, and this may be why. Conversely, the Indian occultists state that continence increases a man's ability to concentrate, and to grasp the abstract. I have found it to be true.

So it follows that the mathematician, of all people, would be the most endangered by the profound loss of life force that is ejaculation; that they would require continence for their work even more than others. The mathematician is the least able to afford much of that foolishness.

That one was sitting right in front of you, plain as the sun.

Note: In traditional cultures, "insanities" of whatever label, are in fact considered to be one of the natural outcomes of excessive semen wastage, particularly in older age.

Sulla the Dictator
01-15-2007, 06:12 PM
I think he said for a month or two months at a time. Meaning repeatedly.

It doesn't really matter, since that isn't true either. :p

Julian Lee, I'm sure, has been celibate for more than a month or two at a time and even he wouldn't suggest he's remotely capable of matching Beethoven or Socrates.

Sulla the Dictator
01-15-2007, 06:14 PM
We're not jurors deliberating in a trial, we're posting on a message board. Horses for courses. Obviously when it comes to the law, "innocent until proven guilty" is the maxim. However in other circumstances, "what is most probable" is more relevant than "what is proven beyond reasonable doubt".


When I said this in the Kevin Strom thread I was called a fascist Neo-Con Jew oppressor, more or less. :rofl:

My point is the double standard. WNs are victims of conspiracy and we need to 'wait and see', black males are guilty until proven innocent, and even then, should be watched with suspicion.

Helios Panoptes
01-15-2007, 06:20 PM
I think he said for a month or two months at a time. Meaning repeatedly.

Okay, but being celibate for a month or two at a time repteatedly would not give someone the musical ability of Beethoven, either.

tempus fugit
01-15-2007, 06:21 PM
When I said this in the Kevin Strom thread I was called a fascist Neo-Con Jew oppressor, more or less. :rofl:

My point is the double standard. WNs are victims of conspiracy and we need to 'wait and see', black males are guilty until proven innocent, and even then, should be watched with suspicion.

Although in both cases, we should presume innocence, I think the two cases are just different. One involves fragments of 4 deleted pics. The other involves finding the suspects fingerprints on the car, holding a .22 revolver, a statement that they originally planned merely a carjacking, etc.

tempus fugit
01-15-2007, 06:22 PM
Okay, but being celibate for a month or two at a time repeatedly would not give someone the musical ability of Beethoven, either.

I agree. I agree.

Helios Panoptes
01-15-2007, 06:51 PM
I did not mean doing it, or having a 1- or 2-month celibate period, only once in one's life, Helios.

It doesn't matter. We could amend my statement to "it is patently false that someone could compose music on par with Beethoven's if he were only celibate for a couple months on multiple occasions."

The statement is an attempt to disencumber men here from the blind malady that says you can't get benefits from celibacy thru a celibate trend, or thru periods of celibacy. The more metal is exposed to fire the warmer it gets, and the more a man practices celibate periods, the more benefit he gets. "Celibacy" does not mean a total life attainment from the age of 0 to the grave. I say that Socrates was celibate and they pipe up that Socrates had children, that Beethoven had a mistress, etc. etc. They have this little mental problem.

Long periods of celibacy -- such as what I cited in the quote you misapprehended -- do give attainments of celibacy. Men need to get that through their heads. I said if men could "practice" celibacy, even in periods of one to two months, (which may in fact be the kind of attainment they had), they'd develop to be "on a par" with these other great men. I did not say they would "compose music" particularly.

As I said, it is equally true that being celibate repeatedly will not allow one to achieve the eminence of Beethoven. If it is possible to not ejaculate for 20 years, it still won't do the trick.

(Background: Earlier we we're talking about the mathematician in "Beautiful Mind" who someone raised up as an example of a "genius" who was a sexer. I pointed out that he was crazy, mentally flawed, which sort of ruined his argument and proved mine.) Now my response to your comment:

Mathematics is heavy mental work. The Indian sages would say that heavy mental work takes up a lot of life force, or "shakti." Some would say it uses a lot of prana. So the mathematician would be using up more of this life force than the average Joe. Earlier posts suggest that mathematicians tend toward mentally instability, and this may be why. Conversely, the Indian occultists state that continence increases a man's ability to concentrate, and to grasp the abstract. I have found it to be true.

So it follows that the mathematician, of all people, would be the most endangered by the profound loss of life force that is ejaculation; that they would require continence for their work even more than others. The mathematician is the least able to afford much of such idiocy.

That one was sitting right in front of you, plain as the sun.

It is not the reason. There was a study by Post(I think that's whom, I can check) which examined levels of mental illness in eminent people and in their close relatives. What he found is that there were high rates of mental illness in the relatives of great men and that many of them were afflicted, but at sub-clinical levels(Nash, of course, is an exception). If I recall correctly, it was great writers who are most associated with mental illness, followed by composers. It doesn't have to do with celibacy, it has to do with the fact that a higher than normal level of mental instability correlates with great achievement, provided that the subject has other characteristics, such as extreme intelligence.

Note: In traditional cultures, "insanities" of whatever label, are in fact considered to be one of the natural outcomes of excessive semen wastage, particularly in older age.

Argumentum ad antiquitatem.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 07:46 PM
That is patently False, Helios. Furthermore, it is latently and notoriously false. :) Your mind needs a recharge.

Intrepid
01-15-2007, 07:53 PM
I hate to get involved in this thread again, but it is patently false that someone could compose music on par with Beethoven's if he were only celibate for a couple months.

Not meaning to cast aspersions upon your commentary, but I would like to know what methodology you've employed to feel qualified to make such blanket statements? Statements that, in fact, fly in the face of all serious academic discourse on this much vaunted subject matter.

Mentious
01-15-2007, 07:57 PM
Julian Lee, I'm sure, has been celibate for more than a month or two at a time and even he wouldn't suggest he's remotely capable of matching Beethoven or Socrates.
More than remotely. Socrates has nothin' no me. A mere mentalist and speculator. :cool:

But I was not fortunate enough to have an instructive father or early guidance in my life about a man's vitality and where it comes from. You young men will do much better. (SOME of you.)

Then later, I directed my mind into channels other than music. I do regret that I didn't grow up exposed to that calibre of music, and lacked family support and training.

Even so, I would say that some of my musical compositions, in certain respects, do approach Beethoven's musicality, even his melodic originality within the pop context of today, and I think Beethoven would find them inspiring. It is extremely difficult to write a vital and original folk melody, and I have composed many. Most modernes would prefer my music over Beethoven's. I predict that some of it becomes culturally as important as Beethoven's compositions once I am finished with it. (I have to get better at the violin and cello, which I picked up after the age of 45, before I can get my recordings finished.) Time will tell. :)

Now I have to run. I'll be making $800.00 today talking with four people for an half hour each, using a more accurate system of astrology that I discovered and developed myself. (Used recently for making predictions about Ahknaton in the astrology thread.)

For now I will leave mice to fight among themselves.

Helios Panoptes
01-15-2007, 08:01 PM
That is patently False, Helios. Furthermore, it is latently and notoriously false. :) Your mind needs a recharge.

???????????

Der Sozialist
01-15-2007, 08:07 PM
(Background: Earlier we we're talking about the mathematician in "Beautiful Mind" who someone raised up as an example of a "genius" who was a sexer. I pointed out that he was crazy, mentally flawed, which sort of ruined his argument and proved mine.) Now my response to your comment:


I was giving an example of a great mathematician who was a homosexual—remember, Nash’s discoveries do not end with his "Equilibrium Points in N-person Games" that he published in Econometrica.

You might remember that his work on the Nash embedding theorem where he proved that every m-dimensional Riemannian manifold is a submanifold in the Euclidean m-space. This is a profound result that only a mathematician that has been exposed to topology will appreciate. The analytical case was done as late as 66—8 years into his mental illness. While his paper on equilibria in non-cooperative N-person games (which allowed game theory to be applied to the social sciences in contrast to Von Neumann who had done the proof for only 2-game and generalized a N-game by assuming cooperation and simplification to a 2 –game—Nash used the Fixed Point Theorem to prove his result (to visualize this—toss a map on the floor, and there is always one spot on the floor that corresponds to the map)) may have earned him his Nobel Prize it was his embedding theorem that earned him the respect of mathematicians.

Either way, his son was also diagnosed with schizophrenia. I highly doubt that Nash became insane from his liaisons.

Either way, if we are to assume your theory on celibacy—we have to assume the effects are from neuroendocrine responses that occur during orgasm and not the loss of semen itself. Since higher emission is correlated with more pronounced neuroendocrine responses, this saves your hypothesis and allows a rational scientific explanation.

tempus fugit
01-15-2007, 08:07 PM
I don't think celibacy will turn you into Beethoven, but celibacy will enhance your creativity.

Just like I don't think that doing your homework will make you into Newton, but doing homework will enhance your knowledge about the subject.

Intrepid
01-15-2007, 08:11 PM
I predict that some of my music becomes culturally as important as Beethoven's compositions once I am finished with it.

I agree wholeheartedly. Deep within my marrow, I feel the entire world waits with bated breath for your rightful musical legacy to take hold and become part of our common cultural European heritage.

Sulla the Dictator
01-15-2007, 08:16 PM
I don't think celibacy will turn you into Beethoven, but celibacy will enhance your creativity.


How?


Just like I don't think that doing your homework will make you into Newton, but doing homework will enhance your knowledge about the subject.

Doing your homework is learning and memorizing things. That is a positive act. Celibacy is the lack of an action. How can that improve you?

tempus fugit
01-15-2007, 08:19 PM
How?

In my experience, sex and chasing sex is time consuming, expensive, and exhausting physically. Also, and secondly, celibacy does give me energy and focus.

Doing your homework is learning and memorizing things. That is a positive act. Celibacy is the lack of an action. How can that improve you?

Abstinence from drugs, drinking, or caffeine is also a lack of action, and yet most people believe doing so improves you.

Der Sozialist
01-15-2007, 08:20 PM
How?




Saving yourself from sexual orgasm will alter the concentrations of certain peptide hormones as secreted from the anterior Pituitary Gland. (Constant stimulation will alter concentrations of these hormones long-term as does constant simulation from certain Nitrite inhalants) We can test this, and this is a rational Scientific explanation.

Helios Panoptes
01-15-2007, 08:34 PM
Saving yourself from sexual orgasm will alter the concentrations of certain peptide hormones as secreted from the anterior Pituitary Gland. (Constant stimulation will alter concentrations of these hormones long-term as does constant simulation from certain Nitrite inhalants) We can test this, and this is a rational Scientific explanation.

Can you provide a link? I am curious.

Also, when you say "constant stimulation," how constant do you mean, specifically?

Der Sozialist
01-15-2007, 08:57 PM
Can you provide a link? I am curious.

Also, when you say "constant stimulation," how constant do you mean, specifically?
Yes, I will try to hunt down a link tomorrow.

Mike
01-15-2007, 11:23 PM
AIUI, many traditional cultures have formed orders and societies that demand or encourage celibacy, so presumably it provides some mental or spiritual benefit. Maybe the practice of self restraint and self denial simply trains the will to overcome baser impulses. Aside form chemical balances, the brain rewires itself over time. Then again, willfully regulating any vice might lead to a similar beneficial effect.

As a side note, this is the most unconventional topic I have seen discussed within a context of WN lifestyle since Lizzy Bennett on VNN so remarkably urged males to reverse their circumcisions. The odd thing is, I am intrigued enough to try it for two weeks and observe the results.


Saving yourself from sexual orgasm will alter the concentrations of certain peptide hormones as secreted from the anterior Pituitary Gland. (Constant stimulation will alter concentrations of these hormones long-term as does constant simulation from certain Nitrite inhalants) We can test this, and this is a rational Scientific explanation.

tempus fugit
01-15-2007, 11:31 PM
Most spiritual and religious leaders have considered celibacy to be a virtue.

Hermetic
01-16-2007, 12:15 AM
The question is are they "spiritual" or just pawns in a line of regurgitating pseudospirituality traditions.

Most spiritual and religious leaders have considered celibacy to be a virtue.

Der Sozialist
01-16-2007, 02:19 AM
Can you provide a link? I am curious.


Serial neurochemical measurement of cerebrospinal fluid during the human sexual response cycle (http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1460-9568.2006.05215.x)

Recent studies examining the neuroendocrine response pattern underlying the human sexual response cycle revealed transient activation of the sympathoadrenal system and a substantial, long-lasting increase in plasma prolactin concentrations following orgasm in men and women. Prolactin has been discussed as being part of a feedback mechanism that signals centers in the central nervous system, such as the dopaminergic system*** controlling sexual arousal. To further elucidate the central role of neuropeptides, biogenic monoamines and neurotransmitters in human sexual behavior, a serial cerebrospinal fluid (CSF)-sampling technique was implemented using a previously established experimental paradigm for sexual activity in a laboratory setting. In parallel with peripheral endocrine measures, lumbar CSF was drawn via an indwelling spinal catheter during the sexual response cycle in 10 healthy males and 10 age-matched controls, and analysed for prolactin, oxytocin, biogenic monoamines and/or their metabolites as well as inhibitory and excitatory neurotransmitter concentrations. Parallel to raised peripheral sympathetic activity, norepinephrine also increased in CSF during audiovisual, masturbation-induced sexual arousal and orgasm, and remained elevated for the remainder of the session (F4,72 = 8.79, P = 0.000). In contrast, none of the other measures, in particular prolactin and dopamine or its metabolites, reflected significant alteration. In conclusion, the human sexual response cycle is characterized by an increase in sympathetic activity in plasma and CSF, and by pronounced secretion of plasma prolactin after orgasm. However, alterations in dopaminergic or peptidergic activity are not found in lumbar CSF, possibly due to local and restricted release in diencephalic and mesencephalic brain regions.

Dopaminergic Systems and Cognition
The dopaminergic system often exhibits modulatory effects on many cognitive functions, including memory, attention, task switching, and response inhibition.74 Recent studies in humans and animals revealed that DA depletion in the mesostriatum can lead to both a slowing in reaction time and deficits in overall task performance.75 Dopaminergic systems within the prefrontal cortex (PFC) are vital to the formation of attentional sets and switching behavior, with DA neurotoxic lesions of the PFC disrupting the establishment of attentional sets.68,75,76 Deficits in task switching have been observed in patients with Parkinson's disease.77–79 This suggests that, functioning in the mesostriatum, DA may also play a role in the creation of attentional sets.80 As previously discussed, long-term methamphetamine use can impair the DA system in both humans and animals. Therefore, the logical assumption is that methamphetamine-induced damage to DA systems may contribute to some of the cognitive deficits observed in methamphetamine-dependent subjects.

[source (http://www.neuro.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/15/3/317)]




Ignore the bit about the methamphetamine in the last quote…So, to test Julian’s hypothesis we would probably focus on the Dopaminergic System.

I was hard pressed to find a source that explicitly says that repeated stimulation would alter the physiological chemistry of the brain—the source I presented indicated long term alterations post-sexual stimulation of certain hormones like prolactin. It also indicates that any deviation in Dopaminergic Systems would be localized.

Basically, though, it makes sense that repeated and regular stimulation of sympathetic activity causing the release of certain neurotransmitters would cause certain alterations in brain physiology considering its negative-positive feedback mechanism.

That is, if one were to have sex frequently then one should notice that sexual arousal and indeed the amplitude of the orgasm decreases—this would indicate a change in the physiological chemistry—as an example.

Also, the studies linking abstinence and aggression due to testosterone build up is another example.

Sexual abstinence and subsequent risk of PC (http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/34/2/483-a)

It is established that sperm counts decline following ejaculation, and then rise for some days as a concomitant of abstinence.14 The same is reportedly true of prostate specific antigen.15,16 It has recently been reported (apparently for the first time) that the same is true too of circulating testosterone concentrations.17 If this were so, then it is reasonable to wonder whether PC is partially caused (rather than simply marked) by constraints on sexual release (imposed either externally or internally). Internal constraints might be imposed by religious or other sanctions against various forms of sexual outlet. The reason for considering this seriously is that it might explain the curious cohort effect in prostate cancer reported by Barrett.18 This author noted that men born in England & Wales around 1885 had higher mortality from PC than men in neighbouring cohorts in nearly every age group from 40–45 upwards. He found that it was the age of the man that was important, and the cohort into which he was born, rather than the date on which he died. Holman et al.19 reached a similar conclusion on Australian data (as well as confirming Barrett's conclusion on British data). Barrett18 speculated that the cause might have been the use (by men of this cohort) of non-appliance methods of contraception (chiefly coitus interruptus). In contrast, Holman et al.19 were inclined to attribute the cohort effect to lowered sexual activity during the Great Depression. They cited other authors suggesting sexual frustration as a predisposing factor. I agree and further propose (as will now be elaborated) that an upbringing in the stifling sexual ethos of late Victorian Britain may have contributed to such frustration.

Also, when you say "constant stimulation," how constant do you mean, specifically?

This would have to be determined experimentally but I am guessing that daily sexual arousal would alter brain physiology significantly as would prolonged abstinence.

Hermetic
01-16-2007, 02:47 AM
I have read cases of people being cured of different aliments by having a sexual orgaism. One example was a doctor who developed a water powered vibrator for women for the curing of different nervous and other mental/physical conditions it worked great, and vast numbers of women where cured of different aliments, but when the prude police found out what it was had it banned. Because if it works is not important as to how it works.lol

tempus fugit
01-19-2007, 11:51 AM
Over the past two weeks, I've tried to limit (reduce) sex to once every three days. While this is clearly not terribly impressive, it's a start. It's working really well actually, and I feel different. More in control, more stored energy, and more internal power.

Mentious
01-30-2007, 05:25 PM
An intelligent man, who actually has the life experience with which to back it up.
Thank you Dr. At least I can say I post sincerely. I came here to try to insert some moral, even spiritual dimension, into the minds of some of the better young men of this country; stuff that they don't see elsewhere. That gives power. I get bloodied for it, but that is why I began posting. America truly was a once better country, and the people here truly were a much better people, despite what Sulla says. I remember the the way the world was, just before social chaos started in full, in the 1960's. They cooked up this new mantra "change is good." But I say "only good change is good." Truly, the root of many human problems is often boredom and the desire for variety/change. For that we used to have composers, playrights, dramatic characters, street jesters, and our own in-house "diversity." But now we do have elements in our society who hate Europeans, who subvert them, and they've but the changes into hyper-drive.

Integrity always presents us with pretty faces in avatars. I like changing mine because I'm on a jag with it and it's fun. I get on jags, then get bored.

HrodbertPalatinus
01-30-2007, 05:58 PM
All the spiritually and morally confused youngsters and ideological seekers here should heed Julian Lee (when he is in his non-combative, serene state of mind). If people were willing to listen, he has great, life-saving wisdom to offer. We must detoxify ourselves of the sexual pathologies of modernity, and Julian Lee provides the first signposts for moderns on the way to recovering moral and spiritual strength.

Mentious
01-30-2007, 06:00 PM
Your posts are among the very finest here. I have to say they are absolutely inspiring. I salute you three times, sir.

Sorry to have lost my serene state of mind at times. What is your opinion? Should I leave calumny unanswered? Do I get too combative then?

By the way, there is a lot of Christian and Catholic tradition directly on the subject of chastity, but I have done a bad job of finding it out or presenting it. Men write to me now and then with bits and pieces. I hope that some of you men anchored in Christian tradition can do some of that work of finding it.

Long live the priesthoods. Long live Christianity. Long live the saints!
He's obviously quite an intelligent chap. He seems to have a vast knowledge on Eastern religions (Hinduism especially) that I find intriguing.
Actually, I am not a real scholar on any particular subject, whereas there actually are scholars of sorts who post here. I will even admit that some of my enemies here are more scholars than I. (Like Potyondi, for example.) I do have a large library of eastern religious texts and scriptures, and have read them regularly for years, but I am more a lover of the texts than I am a scholar. My opinions tends to be more instinctive than scholarly. I recognize the difference, and I definitely respect scholarly men, even when they are my adversaries.

Omniel
01-30-2007, 06:26 PM
Julian Lee is a decent seeming guy with a very interesting mind. I enjoy reading his posts. I could care less about speculation about his sexuality, it's of no consequence, and all these flames are nothing but conjecture intended to humilate and hurt. It's tiresome and serves no purpose. Stop this pathetic attempt at psychoanalysis by proxy of an internet forum, it lowers the tone of the forum, and I'm not surprised it pisses him off.

Petyr Baelish
01-30-2007, 08:18 PM
No doubt I will see a large quantity of tomatoes chucked in my direction.

None such - rather, a sincere desire to see you, and others making similar claims, vindicate your flamboyant and verbose postulations with even a shred of empirical evidence, something than you've not been able to accomplish thus far.