IS Education worth the debt, and does it hinder creativity ?

[New Scientist]

Ok i'll ad here that i didnt post this to aggrandize myself. Rather Todd decided to rib me (as he does on mootstormfront) for the route i take.

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=281691&postcount=37

-------------------
IS Education worth the debt, and does it hinder creativity ?

I remember someone once saying “don’t let a good education get in the way of your intelligence”.

This is a question that’s been on my mind. Since I wrote a self taught book on brain structure (The work is considered readable only at doctorate level.) I have received job offers, economic assistance, rule breaking access to people and university resources and lately an offer to pay of my student loan. So I could have some letters after my name.

These letters seem to be pulled out for the job interview face game. So they are used primarily as a security for economic insurance. Education doesn’t seem to endow people I know with a great deal of insight. You should see the look on the faces of some of my well educated friends when I trounce them in debate. I wouldn’t claim to win every debate or know just as much as everyone I know, but they are for sure, well out of date. Its obvious to me that confidence from education is superficial and highly dependent on a consensual system.

A good indication of my ability is that people call me to ask me stuff on a wide range of subjects..and I get the feeling some (particularly women) feel slightly intimidated to discuss subjects with me. Presumably because they perceive that the pinnacle of their life was to receive an education which they thought would make them an authority over me. AND here I am far ahead a decade later. When in a social setting (particularly with male friends when women are around) I notice a slight nervousness in their previous confidence, since I trounced some of their decade old arguments. (and that’s just two years since their education was over). Their knowledge seems to get smaller as work sucks them in.

This seems to be because the education system hinders the ability to self learn. Not that it doesn’t require a person to self learn. Because the process is guided, spoon fed, structured and directed towards a goal of validated status, then that becomes addictive. Not only does a person require validation to figure what to do next, but the same environment seems to be a requirement to advance with a law of diminishing returns about the level of Phd.

I have my projects and keep at them. They lead me many places. To write my brain structure book, I taught myself the following subjects using uni texts and the internet. Organic chemistry, genetics, biophysics, neuroscience, natural mathematics, and some philosophy with theories on complex systems. That’s off the top of my head and was for one subject. A search on the hard drive shows that I created 4000 folders each one with articles on a topic. I’m into loads of other stuff for my current project on human systems. Anthtropology, earth sciences, international politics, memetics. Only when I’ve gone onto the next project will I really know what i got good at with the current one.

I think Self teaching is king. I just go out and buy books or devise any other approach as needed. Although it wasn’t my intention, my library is bigger and more concise than well educated friends. None I know has built their own lab or data processing system. I know just as much they do in their own fields. (presumably because I referred to their texts) I also seem to be more up to date with whats going on in the edge.

When an interest is self driven, it not only goes way beyond the edge. The result to not even perceive these edges and THAT is when a person becomes creative.

:whip:

[Helios Panoptes]

I prefer to learn by myself, too. The primary value of university to me is that it makes it easy to get people who're expert in the field to critique my writing. Also, there are good lecturers who impart information, though there are others who merely waste a few hours of time per week. If I find the professor falls into the latter category, I will be absent often.

Didn't you say you did lab work? If you're not at uni, how do you have access to a lab?

[New Scientist]

I prefer to learn by myself, too. The primary value of university to me is that it makes it easy to get people who're expert in the field to critique my writing. Also, there are good lecturers who impart information, though there are others who merely waste a few hours of time per week. If I find the professor falls into the latter category, I will be absent often.

Didn't you say you did lab work? If you're not at uni, how do you have access to a lab?

I'm building the lab in my flat to replicate some vital and ignored work on electromagnetism. I already tried getting access to the powerfull tools, but what a hassle.

I've kind of followed the same route, in that i only really approached the local uni to get feedback from the profs. That is i want the top guys to rip my stuff to shreds, or see if they can.

I got fed up. The guy I visited for neurochemisty gave the impression that i would need to get into same mutual back scratching game. That is he re-affirmed my view that it was all about money, consensus games and status. I lived within the uni area for 7 years and realised that mostly everyone was operating so they could maintain an expensive academic lifestyle. Not in the raw business sense, but in the well heeled self effacing, bohemiam style. You know. Townhouses teeming with plants and driving range rovers.

All i see is academic tenure driving it all.



Everyone else at the uni, seemed to behave like the lab rats they operate on.

[Geist]

University is more or less just a safe haven for study. It has all the resources you need, and hopefully a good library. There is a strangeness to the getting ahead aspect of it all, but like anything its just a game you play. I've found that contacts are usually better than a full-on academic approach.

[Boleslaw]

I remember someone once saying “don’t let a good education get in the way of your intelligence”.


That was Mark Twain, although the actual wording is "Never let your schooling interfere with your educationm."

I certainly have adopted that perspective throughout my life. I learn more on my own than I ever have in schools.

[gooddeath]

I have learned considerably more through my own efforts than from attending classes. School has, for the most part, been a waste of time for me. Ironically, it is school that interferes the most with my education. I have stopped trying to learn from classes; now I attend solely to receive somewhat decent grades. What bothers me the most about school is the grading system. It is more reflective of a teacher's leniency and the student's ability to follow directions than the actual knowledge level in that area. Most of my mistakes have occurred not because of lack of knowledge in a particular area, but because I am poor at paying attention to details on tests and projects. For example, on a math test I can prove something perfectly, only to later find out that I was supposed to prove something else. School is a place of business and nothing more: they only want your money. The more schooling that I go through, the more apparent this fact becomes to me.

Edit: Sorry. Perhaps that was too harsh. But you must understand that I am incredibly sick of school.

[gooddeath]

An easy way to see this is to look at the amount of idiots that manage to enter the Ivy League.

[New Scientist]

ITs kind of funny. To keep my projects going, i do freelance delivery driving, and picked one of the roughest areas in europe, so i could get insight into type r populations. ITs proved risky. (I have to carry a pepper defence). I get to not only see gang fights, but work with people related to the gangsters. Ive concluded that the violent behaviour arises from an interplay between laziness and chaotic patterns.

What is ironic is that about 50% of our customers is student campuses. One is the biosciences park, i tried to get access to doing things the right way. Some of the students are skint enough to trade journal acess for pizzas. Students seem to be allowed a honeymoon period of unlimited access which is closed on them when they qualify. (try getting journal access as a worker, within the system, and it takes ages. You'll be asked a lot of questions as to why you need the papers.)

My little driving job is daily insight into both type r and K populations. Strangely the type r populations splash their low wages or benefit cheques on expensive curries high in power and give me surprisingly generous tips even though they live in absolute poverty, while the type K students just order quick fix pizzas and rarely tip, even though you can see their car park is well stocked with new vehicles.

[Geist]

Where did you do the study? Croydon?

[New Scientist]

I have learned considerably more through my own efforts than from attending classes. School has, for the most part, been a waste of time for me. Ironically, it is school that interferes the most with my education. I have stopped trying to learn from classes; now I attend solely to receive somewhat decent grades. What bothers me the most about school is the grading system. It is more reflective of a teacher's leniency and the student's ability to follow directions than the actual knowledge level in that area. Most of my mistakes have occurred not because of lack of knowledge in a particular area, but because I am poor at paying attention to details on tests and projects. For example, on a math test I can prove something perfectly, only to later find out that I was supposed to prove something else. School is a place of business and nothing more: they only want your money. The more schooling that I go through, the more apparent this fact becomes to me.

Edit: Sorry. Perhaps that was too harsh. But you must understand that I am incredibly sick of school.

I've found from experience that dipping your toes into the education system yields the best results but then get out quick. For example, i wanted to build and test the energy properties of a geodesic dome, but this required me to use autocad. I enrolled in the school for that, and picked up how to get to grips with the program in the first three weeks. Then began the process of gaining the qualification itself. It was a 12 week torture and a waste of time. I've never needed the piece of paper i got and the process set me back.

The same has been true of all my experiences with education.

[New Scientist]

I have learned considerably more through my own efforts than from attending classes. School has, for the most part, been a waste of time for me. Ironically, it is school that interferes the most with my education. I have stopped trying to learn from classes; now I attend solely to receive somewhat decent grades. What bothers me the most about school is the grading system. It is more reflective of a teacher's leniency and the student's ability to follow directions than the actual knowledge level in that area. Most of my mistakes have occurred not because of lack of knowledge in a particular area, but because I am poor at paying attention to details on tests and projects. For example, on a math test I can prove something perfectly, only to later find out that I was supposed to prove something else. School is a place of business and nothing more: they only want your money. The more schooling that I go through, the more apparent this fact becomes to me.

Edit: Sorry. Perhaps that was too harsh. But you must understand that I am incredibly sick of school.

I've found from experience that dipping your toes into the education system yields the best results but then get out quick. For example, i wanted to build and test the energy properties of a geodesic dome, but this required me to use autocad. I enrolled in the school for that, and picked up how to get to grips with the program in the first three weeks. Then began the process of gaining the qualification itself. It was a 12 week torture and a waste of time. I've never needed the piece of paper i got and the process set me back.

The same has been true of all my experiences with education.

[Tiberius]

sprinklehopper, got any pictures of your library and lab?

[New Scientist]

Where did you do the study? Croydon?

Possil, milton and sighthill. GLasgow. More like eastenders rather than immigration wars.

[Geist]

Possil, milton and sighthill. GLasgow. More like eastenders rather than immigration wars.

I see. I hear Glasgow has the lowest life expectancy in the UK.

[New Scientist]

sprinklehopper, got any pictures of your library and lab?





some books..just to refer to the old. Mostly i prefer dense amounts of computer information..due to the speed of hyperlinking.

http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sunp0141qm0.jpg

my biggest tool is a multi screen 3d desktop spread over three screens and networked pcs. This allows the crosslinking and visualization of a hundred pages at a time. (with each page able of containing an index to thousands) Absolutely Necessary when researching a biological pathway. For example i read there are 40,000 papers availiable on alzheimers.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1110/473/1600/screenshots.1.jpg

latest addition. Pc linked microscope.

http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sunp0139fw5.jpg

[Aryan Imperium]

IS Education worth the debt, and does it hinder creativity ?

I remember someone once saying “don’t let a good education get in the way of your intelligence”.

This is a question that’s been on my mind. Since I wrote a self taught book on brain structure (The work is considered readable only at doctorate level.) I have received job offers, economic assistance, rule breaking access to people and university resources and lately an offer to pay of my student loan. So I could have some letters after my name.

These letters seem to be pulled out for the job interview face game. So they are used primarily as a security for economic insurance. Education doesn’t seem to endow people I know with a great deal of insight. You should see the look on the faces of some of my well educated friends when I trounce them in debate. I wouldn’t claim to win every debate or know just as much as everyone I know, but they are for sure, well out of date. Its obvious to me that confidence from education is superficial and highly dependent on a consensual system.

A good indication of my ability is that people call me to ask me stuff on a wide range of subjects..and I get the feeling some (particularly women) feel slightly intimidated to discuss subjects with me. Presumably because they perceive that the pinnacle of their life was to receive an education which they thought would make them an authority over me. AND here I am far ahead a decade later. When in a social setting (particularly with male friends when women are around) I notice a slight nervousness in their previous confidence, since I trounced some of their decade old arguments. (and that’s just two years since their education was over). Their knowledge seems to get smaller as work sucks them in.

This seems to be because the education system hinders the ability to self learn. Not that it doesn’t require a person to self learn. Because the process is guided, spoon fed, structured and directed towards a goal of validated status, then that becomes addictive. Not only does a person require validation to figure what to do next, but the same environment seems to be a requirement to advance with a law of diminishing returns about the level of Phd.

I have my projects and keep at them. They lead me many places. To write my brain structure book, I taught myself the following subjects using uni texts and the internet. Organic chemistry, genetics, biophysics, neuroscience, natural mathematics, and some philosophy with theories on complex systems. That’s off the top of my head and was for one subject. A search on the hard drive shows that I created 4000 folders each one with articles on a topic. I’m into loads of other stuff for my current project on human systems. Anthtropology, earth sciences, international politics, memetics. Only when I’ve gone onto the next project will I really know what i got good at with the current one.

I think Self teaching is king. I just go out and buy books or devise any other approach as needed. Although it wasn’t my intention, my library is bigger and more concise than well educated friends. None I know has built their own lab or data processing system. I know just as much they do in their own fields. (presumably because I referred to their texts) I also seem to be more up to date with whats going on in the edge.

When an interest is self driven, it not only goes way beyond the edge. The result to not even perceive these edges and THAT is when a person becomes creative.

:whip:


Aren`t you confusing education with edjewcation?
Most of them end up behind the counter in McDonalds anyway!:rofl:
Far better to take control of your own learning and put yourself through higher level qualifications of your own choosing that are actual degrees or comparable to them. You don`t need a university for that and you will not run up a debt.
You seem to be an intelligent and well motivated person who has taken control of your learning and good luck to you!
Far too many people are leaving university with qualifications that useless in the labour market and they have no real marketable skills. In view of the ever increasing numbers that Bliar is pushing through the university sausage factory system the whole things has become devalued anyway.

[Tiberius]

Impressing! I don't know why, but I always get excited by large amounts of books, labs, strange networks and other technical stuff. I'm going to test this 3D desktop thing. :)

[New Scientist]

I see. I hear Glasgow has the lowest life expectancy in the UK.

The driving principle here is that everyone has to be agressive, alert and in each others face testing for weakness. As a result stress, addiction and violence and murder are the higest in europe.

[New Scientist]

Impressing! I don't know why, but I always get excited by large amounts of books, labs, strange networks and other technical stuff. I'm going to test this 3D desktop thing. :)

Sphere Xp is brilliant. but for data visualization I had to redesign the means of interaction by skybox design. The main problem is the stock skyboxes (backgrounds) are too low resolution, and this distracts the brain from the aim of being within dense amounts of information. That is if you want to be surrounded by a hundred open documents, they need to be sitting within an environment which has as much density.

The program allows for ultra hi res backgrounds, but you need reasonably modern PC. I find it too slow on less than 2000mhz processor, 200hz bus and gforce 4 graphics..

hi res environments can be downloaded free from here.

http://designspherexp.blogspot.com/

[New Scientist]

Aren`t you confusing education with edjewcation?
Most of them end up behind the counter in McDonalds anyway!:rofl:
Far better to take control of your own learning and put yourself through higher level qualifications of your own choosing that are actual degrees or comparable to them. You don`t need a university for that and you will not run up a debt.
You seem to be an intelligent and well motivated person who has taken control of your learning and good luck to you!
Far too many people are leaving university with qualifications that useless in the labour market and they have no real marketable skills. In view of the ever increasing numbers that Bliar is pushing through the university sausage factory system the whole things has become devalued anyway.

my biggest beef is that my credit rating has been ruined as the result of the student loan. You go to uni and if you dont do things the letter you end up with lower economic status than if you never went.

[gooddeath]

It's refreshing to know that I am not the only person who thinks that the college education system is a sham. Sure, there a few good professors and good classes, but the general system is screwy.

[Gun]

Sprinklehopper:

Realizing that your approach is different for each subject you study, do you have any advice, general or specific, for self-teaching? It would seem that just as there are comparatively bad and good ways of teaching others, there are comparatively bad and good ways of teaching one’ self. At least in teaching others, it is typical that just a few simple but vital errors are made; and while most of these are the product of a poor attitude for teaching, some are the product of oversight into basic methods that, while indeed basic, are sometimes so simple that they are hard to realize.

For my part, most of those I’ve encountered in the sciences are there because of a genuine interest and inclination for their chosen subject. Some have even shown me how to better understand the material I read, through the example of their own understanding of it.

Yet it should be said that the university system tends to discourage the best people from staying around, and often the people left behind are not there because they are skilled at teaching others. Often, those who stay around are those who were best at keeping their nose to their professor’s grindstone in graduate school and in play the games needed to land a decent position. Most of the talented, energetic people go off to the private sector to make money, or are simply worn down. Also, on a wider level, the university system encourages a radical departmentalization of knowledge, where cooperation outside one’s chosen science is rare, barriers of terminology are often put up between even rather closely related sciences, and important work is often ignored because it is outside certain narrow confines.

I suppose what I’m saying is that I agree with you, but maybe its best to be fair to those who are in the university system. After all, important work is still being done, and by your own admission you are not strictly self-taught. That is to say you rely on books published presumably by professors at universities, and on journal articles as well. Such is an education that is perhaps structurally self-directed and once removed from another person interaction with others, but is still received by others.

Anyway, I began by asking for advice because you seem to be erudite and have made much of the time you’ve devoted to your own education—though I lack the ability to critically analyze the claims you’ve made, as I am not very educated in the fields you’ve mentioned. But I can at least take a look at your methods and see how they might fit into my own project. I’ve gotten to the point where university education is of less value than it was—the diminishing returns that you spoke of. I’ve had enough examples of people who’ve at least learned something in this world from books, and I have reached the point where I am able to do it mostly on my own.

To close, I would like to ask some questions. They may take a bit of your time that I cannot make a demand on; however, you seem to be interested in talking about your experience in teaching yourself, and the answers to these questions are certain to be of general interest. Not only that, but they’d help a fellow traveler who’s thinking of a similar project but doesn’t know quite where to begin:

It seems like your education is what could be called goal-oriented; that is to say, you pick out an idea you’d like to elaborate, and you see where it takes you. Is that a good characterization of what you do?

How do you decide on which textbook to use for a given subject, or does it matter very much?

What experience have you had first hand with the university system? Do you have any degrees? What are they in?

Do you use the texts for getting a general idea of a subject, and then seek out journal articles about what you are specifically interested in—or do you use journals as part of forming the general idea, so to speak?

How much time do you spend each day studying, and how do you structure that time? Or, if you don’t structure your time, what course does your studying typically take? Do you have a significant amount of time where you are not reading or writing, per say, but simply thinking?

Could you use one of the subjects you listed above as an example and go into detail about how you mastered it?

Thanks,

-Matt

[New Scientist]

Sprinklehopper:

Realizing that your approach is different for each subject you study, do you have any advice, general or specific, for self-teaching? It would seem that just as there are comparatively bad and good ways of teaching others, there are comparatively bad and good ways of teaching one’ self. At least in teaching others, it is typical that just a few simple but vital errors are made; and while most of these are the product of a poor attitude for teaching, some are the product of oversight into basic methods that, while indeed basic, are sometimes so simple that they are hard to realize.

I guess I might have some answers, as I’m preparing the brain book for the final draft 3 (make or break 3rd time lucky)..There has been a break of 18 months after writing draft 2, due to lifestyle alterations, (Then I was living in a run down bedsit doing odd jobs for my landlord, and spent a year on the project 24/7.) My creativity has gone down, just to maintain a basic car and flat lifestyle. There is one lesson already I guess. Responsibility and creativity don’t mix too well. Having said that ive also branched of into projects tying together human systems, sex differences and earth sciences. That lead to a fledgling one on race, which is why i frequent here.

Seeing as i'm approaching putting the brain project out as a serious work, I spent time recently thinking how do I explain my approach, and how do I self assess it. That is just as integral as the results. My approach had moved from scientific to an analytical philosophy yet remained consistent which seemed strange to me. So I had to give myself a crash course in the history of science and philosophy. (I’d recommend reading sophies world) After that I realised I had a valid approach which was a few hundred years old called analytical induction. This approach had its pitfalls. SO there was another lesson. Do whatever way you like to do something, but at some point put time aside to have some kind of appraisal of what you did, and re-evaluate what this means honestly. Even if it means having to throw away much of your output, or go somewhere else. You have your travels and integrity. Whatever is left dictates the direction you take.


For my part, most of those I’ve encountered in the sciences are there because of a genuine interest and inclination for their chosen subject. Some have even shown me how to better understand the material I read, through the example of their own understanding of it.

Yet it should be said that the university system tends to discourage the best people from staying around, and often the people left behind are not there because they are skilled at teaching others. Often, those who stay around are those who were best at keeping their nose to their professor’s grindstone in graduate school and in play the games needed to land a decent position. Most of the talented, energetic people go off to the private sector to make money, or are simply worn down. Also, on a wider level, the university system encourages a radical departmentalization of knowledge, where cooperation outside one’s chosen science is rare, barriers of terminology are often put up between even rather closely related sciences, and important work is often ignored because it is outside certain narrow confines.




I suppose what I’m saying is that I agree with you, but maybe its best to be fair to those who are in the university system. After all, important work is still being done, and by your own admission you are not strictly self-taught. That is to say you rely on books published presumably by professors at universities, and on journal articles as well. Such is an education that is perhaps structurally self-directed and once removed from another person interaction with others, but is still received by others.

There is so much redundant science lying round the journals it needs creative people to put it together in a meaningful way. TO begin I was constantly in amazement in all this brilliant and expensive team work. Then I got frustrated. In the medical sciences we have an increasing tower of babel. Neuroscience (simplified) has multiple disciplines, from biophysics, to complexity theorists, to neuropsychologists. Get them in a room and they cant have a coherent discussion about one organ of the body. Many don’t even know what each other is talking about. Hence cross discipline researchers are gaining promotions these days. At the end of the day it’s a push / pull relationship. Science converges and figures out definite knowledge, then goes too far and fragments it. Creative thinkers surrounded by this push for a new meaning and take it somewhere new.


It seems like your education is what could be called goal-oriented; that is to say, you pick out an idea you’d like to elaborate, and you see where it takes you. Is that a good characterization of what you do?

Its experience driven. Contradictions in life or sensory experiences puzzled me and I sought to resolve them, as answers didn’t exist. If there had been answers I would have not bothered, and would have done something else. To get at the answers I needed to begin with the best available research and that was science.

The goal was to find answers to explain experience. This hasn’t got a lot to do with a traditional student, whose family fund their education for economic reasons. That scenario seems to be the bread and butter of the education system.

How do you decide on which textbook to use for a given subject, or does it matter very much?

Hit or miss to a degree. In the end, I found that favoured uni texts tend to be favoured for good reasons. SO even though I went round second hand bookshops round the university campus, filling my car with anything that looked remotely interesting and cheap, I often found myself liking the books used by those doing that subject at uni. At the same time, I bought brand new one of the top most expensive and concise texts on neuroscience and found it to a be poor and incoherent work in regards to what it set out to do. I ought to stress that uni texts are a reference and grounding. Regarding how to go about things, on a hunt, anything goes. For a time Drugs, dare i say that. Although creative use of drugs is a topic of its own, i wont recommend it to anybody that generally. I might write about the subject properly and from then on people can make up their mind. SO i aint going to say go do drugs. ITs to complex to discuss here. Anyway the drug taking time tied up with the induction period. During research the primary chemical i fed my brain was lots of salmon oil.

What else ? dropping the project for a while, headhunting the right people, doing you own experiments, changing lifestyle, putting yourself up for criticism, ignoring criticism. adopting methods such as the scientific one, re-analysing them. I used 3d information visualization a lot for the brain, as its a three dimensional electromagnetic organ.


What experience have you had first hand with the university system? Do you have any degrees? What are they in?

Two I didn’t finish. One in general sciences. One in computer science, maths and physics. My lifestyle, which at the time was criminally funded, was totally incompatible with going to uni for 4 years. I was getting hauled into jail all the time. Looking back I got A and B grades in all my computer science work. To pick up assignments you would see what was left for year three, four and beyond. It looked the same except denser. That scared and disappointed me. Four years to becoming refined at coding. Then they put me in advanced maths by mistake and that was a disaster and I was too late to grade down. I wont take my failure at uni personally. Ok at the time i thought i needed that yardstick, but i was wrong. Twice I’ve been top of a school or department in college, when I wasn’t trying to achieve anything but get by. That tells me that trying to succeed academically doesnt do me any good.

Now that my life is stable, I could get a degree. I read today that the cost of that is going to triple in the UK for various reasons. A PHD will cost about £50,000. Life is too short. If I had that money, perhaps I’d buy a 5 year old supercar, drive round europe in the sun, researching my projects, have fun and still have something to sell. The point is Half a degree is if no value to anyone except yourself. The debt I have from a half done degree is my biggest and has ruined my credit rating. I’m in a lower economic class because of that, AND the university experience was not fulfilling. Of course that’s my story. IT depends on you and the uni environment. As you know a settled person with time, insight and money can be creative within the academic sphere.



Do you use the texts for getting a general idea of a subject, and then seek out journal articles about what you are specifically interested in—or do you use journals as part of forming the general idea, so to speak?

It can begin several ways. Plenty of times I just jumped straight into pubmed and opened up papers in areas I did not know without reading any uni texts. I just right clicked searches with the opera browser on any word that I didn’t know. That might lead to new branches of biology or physics, then you could spend half a day online trying to get to grips with that. If you have enough time, screens and computers. Thats very fast and allows total cross discipline research. Try doing that with paper. For me its computers first with the library behind to hand. Laziness is also a player. When no solution comes up at the desk, you have to just get out, and badger academic support for full papers. I ought to mention i created my own libraries as i went along. Structured into visual information and pure data. Windows XP and fast processors, came along at just the right time. It could cope with a really dense project, in terms of storing and restructuring data beyond your ability to know what you have. So in a way you are creating your own reference works. Then i would cut and paste from there into big word documents, that could have the images and abstracts from a thousand papers and those become sketch pads to deal with the incredible amount of data in biological systems. The word processor allows you to zoom out and see a hundred pages on the screen. You could make important sections bigger. Basically being able to see a hundred times more information than if you had a room full of open books lying around. Then using a 3d desktop minimize that and have as many more as you want, but always having all the information open and spatially visible drastically alters the way you cross process data, then if you have information stacked.

The brain structure project grew from megs to several gigs. Always backing up the projects. I would say devising my own means of processing information using 3d desktops and multiple computers has been vital.


The idea approach itself is have the drive to figure what we do not know. Spend as long as takes to create an answer then go read everything we know and appraise. But then that process makes you knowledgable after a while. And then you become as fixed as anyone else. Then later you read that some other creative person has blown away all that you thought was fixed !! I read that studies of creative people who go through the process of getting expert makes them less creative.



How much time do you spend each day studying, and how do you structure that time? Or, if you don’t structure your time, what course does your studying typically take? Do you have a significant amount of time where you are not reading or writing, per say, but simply thinking?

Its sporadic. I spent a year cracking the brain structure subject 24/7 not going out, dumping the get a job girlfriend. Unless i was lucky enough to get a no ties quickie, Avoided women. I would do a bit of physical work for money, exercise and brain rest as needed. Now I’ve not done that, i'm not spending much time at submerged. Now I like being in the environment, working. Spending a lot of time trying to get funds. HAve a girlfriend, and made it clear, that i will not be told to stop my projects and get a dayjob unless i want to. However everyday I live with the problems I’m trying to figure, and always plans to break the problems are bubbling away, or if not a plan the priority of coming up with some.



Could you use one of the subjects you listed above as an example and go into detail about how you mastered it?

I'm done :dance2: (i feel like i've done some kind of interview !!) and think described it already. It feels like sport. I used to do sports. TO do sport, you just jump in there and submerse yourself. Years later you find you’re a player.

[Lorcan]

Sophies world is great book and I got a copy for my niece recently but it is too superficial for any deep understanding of philosophy, interpretations are great sometimes but primary sources always.

The largest problem I have had with self study is that I am completely disorganised so it that respect settling down was a huge boon giving me the basis of organisation and motivation needed to press ahead.
Linux is better for many scientific projects IMHO as there is an incredible amount of open tools and libraries available. That said its too easy to get distracted on mechanism rather than substance if you are learning an application your not doing “real” work after all.
I know lots of people with Linux who spend all their time working on the OS rather than with the OS, you have to remember that tools are a means to an end not an end in themselves.

[Lorcan]

Charles Murray has good articles on the topic ,3 of them starting here.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110009531

[New Scientist]

Sophies world is great book and I got a copy for my niece recently but it is too superficial for any deep understanding of philosophy, interpretations are great sometimes but primary sources always.

The largest problem I have had with self study is that I am completely disorganised so it that respect settling down was a huge boon giving me the basis of organisation and motivation needed to press ahead.
Linux is better for many scientific projects IMHO as there is an incredible amount of open tools and libraries available. That said its too easy to get distracted on mechanism rather than substance if you are learning an application your not doing “real” work after all.
I know lots of people with Linux who spend all their time working on the OS rather than with the OS, you have to remember that tools are a means to an end not an end in themselves.

I personally found the story bits annoying and skipped through to the philosophy lessons as much as possible. While reading sophies world i also reffered to the real works online or some i already had and the summaries given to students on uni sites. None I found gave an insight into the progression of philosophy or mans creative thinking. Also I didnt find sophies world gave a wrong account of any of those philosophers it had lessons on, although it did skip bits, which it had to.

The power of sophies world seemed to be that it provided a brilliant crash course insight into the progress of man through deep thought, and in its later chapters started revealing how much of philosophy had swung been diametric dialectics and that a process of realization by philosophers, that this dialectic was re-occuring as a pattern itself, became reconstituted in dialectic philosophy beggining with kant. Although squewed to his approch. This dual thought process itself following kant became even denser going all over the place in an almost left/right wing fashion finally exhausting itself last century.

For that insight, I'd still recommend it to serious academics unfamiliar with philosophy and thought as a whole.

As a godfather, I send my little brothers and sisters easy read books about subjects i think their catholic religion will deny them. So Out of interest did your niece take to it ? I was wondering what age of children would find it readable.

[New Scientist]

Linux is better for many scientific projects IMHO as there is an incredible amount of open tools and libraries available. That said its too easy to get distracted on mechanism rather than substance if you are learning an application your not doing “real” work after all.
I know lots of people with Linux who spend all their time working on the OS rather than with the OS, you have to remember that tools are a means to an end not an end in themselves.

Luckily i managed to get buy without linux, but it was difficult. I may have to build a linux box for brain visualization tools. I'm not going to start using it for networking.. But then i bet thats what all the other linux programmers started out saying.

Regarding the IQ article they should just feed kids salmon oil.

http://www.homeschoolmath.net/teaching/fats-intelligence.php

I got fed loads of fish by my grandma to the point of being sick of it. She was ashkenazi and they all have high IQ's but theres research which says that ashkenazi jews have high IQ's due to their ability to metabolize brain fats faster. So its then more essential in diet. I got ill for a while from mental burnout and then found swallowing three salmon oil a day sorted the problem.

I noticed this with others who try it. The more intelligent they are, the more they appear to get out of omega 3, that is notice a real change in the persons abilities. In general it does seem to be of benefit, but some people don't appear to get anything from it.

[Lorcan]

I personally found the story bits annoying and skipped through to the philosophy lessons as much as possible. While reading sophies world i also reffered to the real works online or some i already had and the summaries given to students on uni sites. None I found gave an insight into the progression of philosophy or mans creative thinking. Also I didnt find sophies world gave a wrong account of any of those philosophers it had lessons on, although it did skip bits, which it had to.
[QUOTE]
Sophie’s world is an incredible book ,its well written with a beautiful flowing narrative and compresses everything possible within the limited space it has ,it is just insufficient for a full grounding in philosophy based on size as much as anything else. It also suffers the standard weakness of secondary sources.

[QUOTE]
The power of sophies world seemed to be that it provided a brilliant crash course insight into the progress of man through deep thought, and in its later chapters started revealing how much of philosophy had swung been diametric dialectics and that a process of realization by philosophers, that this dialectic was re-occuring as a pattern itself, became reconstituted in dialectic philosophy beginning with kant. Although squewed to his approch. This dual thought process itself following kant became even denser going all over the place in an almost left/right wing fashion finally exhausting itself last century.

For that insight, I'd still recommend it to serious academics unfamiliar with philosophy and thought as a whole.

The Dialedic goes back to Socrates (or Platos interpretation thereof) its almost as old as Philosophy(unlike many people I regard the pre-Socratics as philosophers in the fullest sense of the word.) The idea of Hegelian dialectic is newer however but could be seen as an elaboration of Aristotles idea of virtue finding and choosing the mean.


What I would call constructive modern philosophy has basically been driven recently by science and mathematical theory, the most important recent development in philosophy in my opinion might well have been Gödel’s incompleteness theorem but many would not regard that as "philosophy" at all.
It might be harsh but I think it has drifted from its original objective as "natural philosophy", an attempt as Milton would put it to justify the laws of God (or creation) to men and vice versa. I think the lack focus on the basic questions How do I understand the world (now handled by modern science) and how do I live my life (destroyed by postmodernist ethics) has taken both the reason and necessity out of modern philosophy.

I don’t think modern philosophy can be complete without grounding in the sciences, else it has a tendency to become an exercise in mental masturbation. Platos Academy specified that nobody without a knowledge of geometry could enter (not mathematics but geometry) The importance of this has just recently sunk in to me.

A lack of conscience in modern intellectual disciplines is disturbing.




As a godfather, I send my little brothers and sisters easy read books about subjects i think their catholic religion will deny them. So Out of interest did your niece take to it ? I was wondering what age of children would find it readable.

I doubt she will to be honest, but it was worth a try. I would say a curious 14-15 year old would be about right but I think standards have declined since I was in school.

P.S Have you read the Sequel? I believe it is out now.

[Lorcan]

Luckily i managed to get buy without linux, but it was difficult. I may have to build a linux box for brain visualization tools. I'm not going to start using it for networking.. But then i bet thats what all the other linux programmers started out saying.

Regarding the IQ article they should just feed kids salmon oil.

http://www.homeschoolmath.net/teaching/fats-intelligence.php

I got fed loads of fish by my grandma to the point of being sick of it. She was ashkenazi and they all have high IQ's but theres research which says that ashkenazi jews have high IQ's due to their ability to metabolize brain fats faster. So its then more essential in diet. I got ill for a while from mental burnout and then found swallowing three salmon oil a day sorted the problem.

I noticed this with others who try it. The more intelligent they are, the more they appear to get out of omega 3, that is notice a real change in the persons abilities. In general it does seem to be of benefit, but some people don't appear to get anything from it.

I don’t disagree with Omega 3 being good for you ,ive recently being taking two capsules a day but I don’t believe its sufficient to account for the development of intelligence.

Much of the development in recent European history has been along a central axis (away from the coast) with a fairly low amount of fish consumed. I would also assume (and i am assuming here ) that Ashkenazi would not get all that much fish historically based as much on location as anything else.

Granted the ancient world loved its fish from the Greeks to the Romans, I would hate to think what garum smelt like.

[New Scientist]

I don’t disagree with Omega 3 being good for you ,ive recently being taking two capsules a day but I don’t believe its sufficient to account for the development of intelligence.

Much of the development in recent European history has been along a central axis (away from the coast) with a fairly low amount of fish consumed. I would also assume (and i am assuming here ) that Ashkenazi would not get all that much fish historically based as much on location as anything else.

Granted the ancient world loved its fish from the Greeks to the Romans, I would hate to think what garum smelt like.

It depends where the omega 3 comes from. I began on salmon oil, then one day i just felt my cognition drop big time. I looked at the bottle contents, and the supplier had switched from salmon to the usual mix of oily fish. Like an addict i dropped everything and went on a hunt round all the health shops, spending every penny on every available omega 3 type. None gave me the mental kick until i found the mainstream high street supplier had salmon oil. I swalllowed and everything was back on track. There must be an enzyme in the salmon oil which aids uptake.

My grandparents (ashkenzai) used to take me holidays every year, basically travelling about trying to stock up on fresh fish. They had a caravan right beside the fishing waters. Or there were fishing trips every few weeks with the other ashkenzai relatives, where we would fill up the car with fish and stock up the freezers. My experience is that there is a big appetite for fish amongst ashkenazi. As there has been a longer standing one for dense storable omega 3 such as cod roe and caviar (jews were key in dealing caviar).

Also omega 3 is stored in soya, a key dietry requirement in the high iq japanese. What comes first ? the need to seek foods in omega 3 or the drive to be smarter. With greeks it was probably just availibility then suddenly all creativity broke loose. With jews, they probably sought brainpower diets, much like muslims seek physical power diets.

So People don't have to live next to the sea for brain development, they can seek and grow alternatives inland, or just maintain their IQ on less potent alternatives. Overall at some stage, thin land mass and fish looks strongly to be a big factor in the majority of breakthrough human groups.

.

[Lorcan]

It depends where the omega 3 comes from. I began on salmon oil, then one day i just felt my cognition drop big time. I looked at the bottle contents, and the supplier had switched from salmon to the usual mix of oily fish. Like an addict i dropped everything and went on a hunt round all the health shops, spending every penny on every available omega 3 type. None gave me the mental kick until i found the mainstream high street supplier had salmon oil. I swalllowed and everything was back on track. There must be an enzyme in the salmon oil which aids uptake.


.


I would have thought omega-3 is omega-3 and sources would be irrelevant,once alpha-linolenic acid is present it gets metabolised into the other substituents.

Incidently you might want to look into consumption of eggs as well as fish as they were probably the main source of omega for central europe historically.Eggs also probably had a higher omega-3 content in the past due to more natural farming methods also.

[Flint Steel]

A third of university graduates take up jobs unrelated to their education.

[Rakhmetov]

College education is a waste of time, money, and is not anything that cannot learn by yourself. I've taken several courses for general education and it was so pathetic. I didn't attend half my classes yet I still got a 3.0 GPA. The only reason why I still continue to go is because I get I'm given $1000 for every semester through financial aid. You should instead try to get a job in a factory or a government job with a living wage and excellent benefits like the postal service. Those with a college education are class enemies that are disdainful towards the proletariat.

[Lieutenant William Bligh]

A good indication of my ability is that people call me to ask me stuff on a wide range of subjects..and I get the feeling some (particularly women) feel slightly intimidated to discuss subjects with me. Presumably because they perceive that the pinnacle of their life was to receive an education which they thought would make them an authority over me. AND here I am far ahead a decade later. When in a social setting (particularly with male friends when women are around) I notice a slight nervousness in their previous confidence, since I trounced some of their decade old arguments. (and that’s just two years since their education was over). Their knowledge seems to get smaller as work sucks them in.

The status symbol which a university education gives me, means a lot to me, obviously, though I think most of the stuff I've learned is as useless as the stuff I learned in high school. The diploma gives me a status over others, but it doesn't satisify me, in terms of actually producing things or being good at real valuable talents.

[New Scientist]

The status symbol which a university education gives me, means a lot to me, obviously, though I think most of the stuff I've learned is as useless as the stuff I learned in high school. The diploma gives me a status over others, but it doesn't satisify me, in terms of actually producing things or being good at real valuable talents.

Ive got a great worry that if i submit to status instincts i'll compromise the integrity of my projects. Not only that status instincts demands so much, and you get sucked into maintaining them in what seems like another dimension. Say you are succesful at something. And you get a reputation, in the long term that can be addictive, and you become dependent on others. It can mess up your consistency.

Its one reason why i use silly names like sprinklehopper for some very real subjects. I'm not anti-establishment, but sometimes its better to ignore it.

I see ive started a whole thing by appearing on pan aryan forum. I've not got time just now to restate my position properly. See what i can do. I need to reframe where i'm going with all this, racialism femininity stuff anyway.

//
..

[PsychoStick]

"There is no such thing as a doctrine, a theory, or an idea which lacks the capacity to imprison the mind"

The same man goes to three specialist for help. The neurologist says he has a neurological disorder. The acupuncturist says his chi is not balanced . The virologist says he has a virus that is causing his symptoms. see where this is going?

education will limit creativity only if you allow it to do so.

yes, educating yourself is always worth the trouble.

[okiereddust]

"There is no such thing as a doctrine, a theory, or an idea which lacks the capacity to imprison the mind"

The same man goes to three specialist for help. The neurologist says he has a neurological disorder. The acupuncturist says his chi is not balanced . The virologist says he has a virus that is causing his symptoms. see where this is going?Not exactly

education will limit creativity only if you allow it to do so.

yes, educating yourself is always worth the trouble.
We weren't talking about educating yourself, we were talking about college education. And the expense of that requires you secure a good paying job in return, something that increasingly isn't happening, not only for college graduates as a group

National Data, By Edwin S. Rubenstein: Young College Graduates Are Struggling. Guess One (Unmentionable) Reason (http://www.vdare.com/articles/national-data-by-edwin-s-rubenstein-18)

but even for that supposed holy grail of employable practicability and employee need, STEM grads.

National Data, By Edwin S. Rubenstein | Why More Immigrant Science, Technology, Engineering, Math Graduates When So Many American STEM Graduates Are Unemployed? (http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77197)

[PsychoStick]

Not exactly


We weren't talking about educating yourself, we were talking about college education. And the expense of that requires you secure a good paying job in return, something that increasingly isn't happening, not only for college graduates as a group

For that 'not exactly' were you saying you don't get the example or that it's not exactly a correct example? <--- I'm going with option #2. It's close enough to show a limiting factor.

for the second part, it depends on where you intend to live. Baytown Tx for example, if you want to make money and live there you need to be an instrumental tech, or plant operator. Both are 2 year courses at any college, and both will land you jobs paying between 50k and 80k. starting off. (Baytown is a small refinery town)

http://www.simplyhired.com/a/local-jobs/city/l-Baytown,+TX

http://www.baytownblog.com/?p=633

so it depends on where you want to live. the overall trend is that it doesn't pay off anymore, but 2 year courses at almost any college are available and are usually suited to the area the college is located in. Employers will go to the colleges and recruit the people on campus.

[Flint Steel]

No it is not worth the debt. At the start of the semester they give you a booklist and test you on it six months later. Download a booklist for your chosen subject and save yourself fifty grand. Seriously.

[PsychoStick]

No it is not worth the debt. At the start of the semester they give you a booklist and test you on it six months later. Download a booklist for your chosen subject and save yourself fifty grand. Seriously.

It is if you want a job that requires Ms/Phd. Also, it depends on the person in question. If you have a passion for a specific area of study and want to do research in that field, then you will have to get the credentials.

[Eisenhans]

It is if you want a job that requires Ms/Phd. Also, it depends on the person in question. If you have a passion for a specific area of study and want to do research in that field, then you will have to get the credentials.
This, which is particularly tragic. I'm looked down on, if I'm even looked on at all, by the regional musical community because I'm the only amateur that doesn't have a PhD in music. Anything I submit to local symphonic organizations is sent back with a nice note saying "sorry, but you're uneducated and everyone else is, so we didn't even look at your submission for quality."

If you want to be respected and listened to by the intellectual community, a degree is a requirement.