PDA

View Full Version : The Killing Process in Crematoria II and III at Birkenau


Globus
01-19-2007, 09:30 PM
Crematoria II and III were constructed according to nearly identical, symmetrically printed plans. They consisted of three principal parts, two of which were underground –the “dressing room”, with an area of 392.45 sq. m (49.49 x 7.93), and the gas chamber, 210 sq. m (30 x 7). The “dressing room” was 2.3 m high, the gas chamber 2.4 meter high. The third part, the furnace room, was 337.2 sq. m (30 x 11.24) and was on the ground floor.

The two underground rooms, designated on camp charts as mortuaries (Leichenkeller), were windowless and had to be lit artificially. The ceiling, which was made of reinforced concrete and covered with grass turf, was supported by concrete posts arrayed in a straight line and linked by a bearing beam. According to the original plan, the “undressing room” was to be nearly twice as large as the gas chamber to enable the victims to undress in relatively uncramped conditions. Both the gas chamber and the “dressing room” were mechanically ventilated. The power was supplied by generators in the attic of the crematorium. The outlet of the ventilation shafts was situated above the room of the crematorium.

Wooden benches were placed along the walls of the “dressing room.” Above them were numbered wooden clothes hooks. A narrow passage, about 5 m long, connected the “dressing room” with the gas chamber. The passage ended with a spacious anteroom with an entrance to the gas chamber. The entrance door, 1.92 m high and 1 m wide, was made of two layers of planks with a proofing sheet between them. The edges of the door and the door frame were padded with felt. A circular peephole, made of two glass plates 8 mm thick and air-proofed with rubber gaskets, was mounted in the door at eye level. After several incidents in which the victims trapped inside broke the glass, the peephole was covered with a semicircular grille on the gas chamber side. Later the hole was covered with a sheet of iron. The doors were shut by means of iron bolts, which also served as door handles, and secured with screws. The inside walls of the gas chamber were plastered and whitewashed. Electrical installations and lamps were located on both sides of the bearing beam, and perforated plates mounted on wooden blocks were installed beneath the ceiling in imitation of showers. Ventilation shafts were situated where the walls met the ceiling and the floor. The vent of the upper (intake) shaft was covered with perforated sheet iron, whereas the vent of the lower (extraction) shaft was covered with a metal grille.

Zyklon B was distributed in the gas chamber through four introduction columns custom-made in the metalwork shops of the camp. They were shaped like pillars and made of two wire grids with a movable core. Cross sections of the pillars, 3 m high, formed a square, each side measuring 70 cm. Fastened to the floor, they passed through openings in the ceiling, ending outside as little chimneys closed with a concrete cover equipped with two handles. The external grid (made of wire 3 mm thick) formed interstices measuring 45 mm x 45 mm, and was fastened to cube-shaped metal scantlings (cross section 50 mm x 10 mm). Interstices of the external grid --150mm apart from the internal grid and similarly fastened – were smaller (25 mm x 25 mm). The two grids served as a screen for the movable core that could be introduced through the opening in the ceiling. The core consisted of a tin prism measuring 150 mm x 150 mm at the cross section. The bottom of the core was flat, and the top was a cone. A wire mesh with interstices of one sq. mm extended from the base of the core to the base of the cone, and was fastened to a post 25 mm away. The entire length of the core was covered with tin. When Zyklon B pellets fell onto the cone, they spread uniformly throughout the core and stopped in its lower part. After the gas evaporated, the entire core was removed from the gas chamber and the used pellets of diatomite were poured out.

[…]

The extermination process and cremation of the corpses in crematoria II and III went as follows. After selection for death, the Jews who could walk were marched from the loading ramp to the crematorium. The weak, the invalid, and the sick were transported on trucks. In the crematorium yard, the SS men told the prisoners that they would undergo a disinfection that consisted of delousing and bathing. The victims were led down the staircase to the dressing room in the basement, where they could see the signs (in German) “To the Baths” and “To Disinfection.” Similar signs were posted on a portable board in the native language of the victims.

On the way to the gas chamber some victims were issued a piece of soap and a towel. As a rule, the women and children went in first, followed by the men. Each group was led inside the chamber behind a cordon of SS men that edged toward the door as the chamber filled. With the refractory ones spurred on by blows and dogs, about 2,000 persons on average were crammed inside.

When the chamber was full or the entire transport was inside and the personnel had left (two SS noncommissioned officers always stayed until the end), the doors were shut, the bolts were slid into place, and the screws were tightened. On order of the supervising SS doctor (the job was assigned to, among others, Josef Mengele, Hans Konig, and Hans Thilo), the SS disinfectors (Scheinmetz, among others) opened the Zyklon B cans and poured their contents into the vents down the induction shafts inside the chamber.

Within several minutes, 20 at most, all the victims were dead. The time required for the gas to take effect depended on various factors that affected the evaporation of the gas: temperature, humidity, the congestion inside the chamber. Whenever the outside air temperature was higher than the inside temperature, the cool air was extracted by ventilators from the chamber before the gas pellets were poured inside. To speed up the evaporation of the poison gas in winter, iron baskets filled with red-hot coke were brought inside. Some unsuccessful attempts were made to heat the chamber interior with heat from the chimney flues.

Hoess, who personally observed the killing in the gas chambers, described the process:

“It could be observed through the peephole in the door that those who were standing nearest to the induction vents were killed at once. It can be said that about one-third died straightaway. The remainder staggered about and began to scream and struggle for air. The screaming, however, soon changed to the death rattle and in a few minutes all lay still”

About a half hour after the induction of the gas, the ventilation was turned on, the door was opened, and Sonderkommando prisoners wearing gas masks began dragging the corpses out of the chamber. In cases of great congestion, many of the dead were found half-squatting, their skin colored pink with occasional red or green spots. Some foamed at the mouth, others bled from the ears.

In the gas chamber’s anteroom, the bodies were relieved of spectacles and artificial limbs, and the women’s hair was cut off. Thereupon the corpses were loaded on the elevator platform and lifted to the ground floor. Some of the corpses were dragged directly to the oven area. Others were moved to the corpse storage room opposite the elevator, which also served as a site of executions by shooting. Just before the incineration, Sonderkommando prisoners removed jewelry, which they tossed into a special numbered crate.

Teeth with metal fillings, crowns, and bridges made of gold or other precious metals were extracted from the mouths of the gassed victims and deposited in a crate marked “Zahnstation” (dental station). Sonderkommando prisoners who were dentists by occupation performed this task under SS supervision. The only ones whose mouths were not inspected were children. If in the course of the sporadic inspections it was established that not all gold teeth had been extracted, occasionally the Sonderkommando prisoner guilty of neglect was punished by being thrown alive into the furnace.

It took about four hours to empty the gas chamber. Initially the corpses were delivered to the furnaces on small trolleys that ran on rails, as was done in the main camp. The trolleys also served to load the corpses into the furnace retorts. This arrangement, however, did not last long. On the initiative of the Kapo August Bruck, special corpse stretchers, which could be rolled into the retorts, were introduced. To facilitate the loading, the corpse stretchers were lubricated with soapy water. Methods of loading the corpses varied; each team servicing the furnaces had its own technique. For example, H. Tauber’s team would put two corpses into one retort two times, then add as many children’s corpses as possible to the second load.

It took about 20 minutes to cremate three corpses in one retort. However, in their efforts to reduce the number of loadings, prisoners cremated four to five corpses at one time and extended the cremation time to about 25 to 30 minutes. When the time was up, the next load would be put into the retort, regardless of the degree of incineration of the preceding load. The incompletely incinerated bones fell through the grille into the ash pit, were ground with wooden mortars along with the ashes, then poured into pits near the crematorium. Next they were removed from the pits and poured into the Vistula River or nearby ponds. Sometimes they were used to prepare compost; other times they were used directly to fertilize the fields of the camp farms.

Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp
Indiana University Press
1998
p. 166-167, 169-171

Ratatoskur
01-19-2007, 11:10 PM
Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp (Paperback)
by Israel Gutman (Editor), Michael Berenbaum (Editor), Yisrael Gutman (Editor)

http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Auschwitz-Death-Israel-Gutman/dp/025320884X

Not that I dispute the Holocaust(c), but I don't think this passes for "unbiased".

Globus
01-19-2007, 11:15 PM
Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp (Paperback)
by Israel Gutman (Editor), Michael Berenbaum (Editor), Yisrael Gutman (Editor)

http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Auschwitz-Death-Israel-Gutman/dp/025320884X

Not that I dispute the Holocaust(c), but I don't think this passes for "unbiased".

Then you are rather weird. Pretending that bias can be determined by historians names indicate that you are the one with a bias. The book is an anthology of articles by many Holocaust historians.

It contains 13 long articles by various authors, many of whom are associated with the Auschwitz Museum.

It is one of the more definitive collections on Auschwitz.

calvin
01-20-2007, 09:11 AM
The external grid (made of wire 3 mm thick) formed interstices measuring 45 mm x 45 mm, and was fastened to cube-shaped metal scantlings (cross section 50 mm x 10 mm). Interstices of the external grid --150mm apart from the internal grid and similarly fastened – were smaller (25 mm x 25 mm).

The external grid………… formed interstices measuring 45 mm x 45 mm… Interstices of the external grid… were smaller (25 mm x 25 mm)

The entire description of these columns is either completely bogus or extraordinarily inept to the extent that it is meaningless.

A document purported to prove the existence of similar columns is reproduced on page 232 of Pressac’s “Auschwitz Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers”. The document displayed shows a list of perfectly innocent components in a typed list at the end of this typewritten list, in a hand written ink scrawl, the two incriminating objects have been added.

delete
01-20-2007, 11:35 AM
This is from Globus quote.

Zyklon B was distributed in the gas chamber through four introduction columns custom-made in the metalwork shops of the camp. They were shaped like pillars and made of two wire grids with a movable core. Cross sections of the pillars, 3 m high, formed a square, each side measuring 70 cm. Fastened to the floor, they passed through openings in the ceiling, ending outside as little chimneys closed with a concrete cover equipped with two handles. The external grid (made of wire 3 mm thick) formed interstices measuring 45 mm x 45 mm, and was fastened to cube-shaped metal scantlings (cross section 50 mm x 10 mm). Interstices of the external grid --150mm apart from the internal grid and similarly fastened – were smaller (25 mm x 25 mm). The two grids served as a screen for the movable core that could be introduced through the opening in the ceiling. The core consisted of a tin prism measuring 150 mm x 150 mm at the cross section. The bottom of the core was flat, and the top was a cone. A wire mesh with interstices of one sq. mm extended from the base of the core to the base of the cone, and was fastened to a post 25 mm away. The entire length of the core was covered with tin. When Zyklon B pellets fell onto the cone, they spread uniformly throughout the core and stopped in its lower part. After the gas evaporated, the entire core was removed from the gas chamber and the used pellets of diatomite were poured out.

If what he describes is real, you (the lurker) should be able to recreate these Zyclon B introduction columns, and this is what the revisionists have done.

You (the lurker) can read about them from a affermative POV here:
www.holocaust-history.org
Zyklon Introduction Columns (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/intro-columns/)

and from a revisionist POV here.
The Kula Kolumn - www.vho.org
Analysis of a 'Centerpiece' of Material Evidence for the Alleged Homicidal Gas Chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau: Michal Kula's Eight Triple-Mesh Metal Cyanide Induction Columns (http://www.vho.org/tr/2004/1/Countess56-61.html)

In case you (the lurker) don't bother, or to entice people(the lurker) to read about it, I have posted some images concerning the Kula introduction columns.

You (the lurker) be the judge if the Kula columns is sturdy enough to survive the pandemonium that broke out when the gassings started. Think of the crowd controll bars in front of the stage in rock concert venues. (min 2 inch thick roundbar steel, but with good steel quality one inch might be enough.)

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/intro-columns/schematic.gif
Sources: Gutman, Yisrael, and Michael Berenbaum, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp, 1994; Pressac, Jean-Claude, Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York, 1989.

http://www.vho.org/tr/2004/1/Kula.jpg
J.-C. Pressac's drawing of the legendary "Zyklon B introduction columns" as described by Michal Kula

http://www.vho.org/tr/2004/1/Kula1.jpg
The Kula Kolumn under construction on August 24, 2002, on the driveway of the Countess home in Alabama, here with editor Germar Rudolf

http://www.vho.org/tr/2004/1/Kula2.jpg
Dr. Countess presenting a self-made model of a "Kula Kolumn" during the 2002 Real History Conference in Cincinnati.

Edited in (the lurker).

Globus
01-20-2007, 01:57 PM
The entire description of these columns is either completely bogus or extraordinarily inept to the extent that it is meaningless.

A document purported to prove the existence of similar columns is reproduced on page 232 of Pressac’s “Auschwitz Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers”. The document displayed shows a list of perfectly innocent components in a typed list at the end of this typewritten list, in a hand written ink scrawl, the two incriminating objects have been added.

You've already tried this gambit.

The document is a piece of evidence. All the evidence for these introduction devices, including the document in question, prove their existence. Many of the incriminating pieces of evidence for gassing occur in the construction department documents. In addition to this document there are numerous pieces of testimonial evidence, as well as photographic evidence.

So mindless denial will do you better here than anywhere else.

Globus
01-20-2007, 01:59 PM
This is from Globus quote.


]If what he describes is real, you should be able to recreate[ these Zyclon B introduction columns, and this is what the revisionists have done.

You can read about them from a affermative POV here:
www.holocaust-history.org
Zyklon Introduction Columns (http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/intro-columns/)

and from a revisionist POV here.

You mean from a Holocaust denier!!

Analysis of a 'Centerpiece' of Material Evidence for the Alleged Homicidal Gas Chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau: Michal Kula's Eight Triple-Mesh Metal Cyanide Induction Columns

In case you don't bother, or to entice people to read about it, I have posted some images concerning the Kula introduction columns.

You be the judge if the Kula columns is sturdy enough to survive the pandemonium that broke out when the gassings started. [/quote]

No, history will be the judge. And neither of those representations are accurate.

This is the mindlessness which denial has become!!

delete
01-20-2007, 02:10 PM
If what he describes is real, you should be able to recreate these Zyclon B introduction columns, and this is what the revisionists have done.

In case you don't bother, or to entice people to read about it, I have posted some images concerning the Kula introduction columns.

You be the judge if the Kula columns is sturdy enough to survive the pandemonium that broke out when the gassings started. Think of the crowd controll bars in front of the stage in rock concert venues. (min 2 inch thick roundbar steel, but with good steel quality one inch might be enough.)

No, history will be the judge. And neither of those representations are accurate.
This is the mindlessness which denial has become!!

I was speaking to the general Lurker, and not you Globus, because you are unable to judge anything. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I ask the interested reader to notice how he avoids the subject that the only way somthing like a Kula column could survive multiple gassings, was if the gassings was imaginative, and only taking place inside somebodies head. .

Globus
01-20-2007, 02:13 PM
I was speaking to the general Lurker, and not you Globus, because you are unable to judge anything. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I'm able to judge denier bullshit, which is what the departed Robert Countesses article is. It is long on rhetoric, ignores every piece of evidence proving the existence of these devices, and pretends that the contraption he built in his garage signifies something when it doesn't.

I ask the interested reader to notice how he avoid the subject that the only way somthing like a Kula column could survive multiple gassings, was if the gassings was imaginative and only taking place inside somebodies head. .

Avoided what, a couple of images!!

There was no problem with the columns during gassing. In fact, we know from evidence that the victims fled the area of the columns once the gas was introduced.

You need to acquire a little more knowledge if you're going to actually discuss this.

delete
01-20-2007, 02:22 PM
There was no problem with the columns during gassing. In fact, we know from evidence that the victims fled the area of the columns once the gas was introduced.

If it was anybody but you I would ask for a source, but the I guess the proof would be once more that the victims fled the area of the columns once the gas was introduced, because the flimsy colums survived and 1 million people was gassed in Auschwitz.

The Kula column is ridiculus for anybody with knowledge of the physics of materials and forces. Remember the dimentions of the crowd controll bars at music arenas.

Globus
01-20-2007, 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by Globus
There was no problem with the columns during gassing. In fact, we know from evidence that the victims fled the area of the columns once the gas was introduced.


If it was anybody but you I would ask for a source,

If you bothered to learn something about the subject before posting denier nonsense you wouldn't be in ignorance about it.

but the I guess the proof would be once more that the victims fled the area of the columns once the gas was introduced, because the flimsy colums survived and 1 million people was gassed in Auschwitz.

There was nothing flimsy about the columns. You do like to procede on the basis of false premises, don't you.

The Kula column is ridiculus for anybody with knowledge of the physics of materials and forces.

And who do you know that has that knowledge!

calvin
01-20-2007, 03:53 PM
You've already tried this gambit. The document is a piece of evidence.

You have still failed to explain why the two incriminating objects appear in a handwritten scrawl at the end of a typed list.

There was no problem with the columns during gassing. In fact, we know from evidence that the victims fled the area of the columns once the gas was introduced

Your last “witness” account averred that people were packed so tightly into the rooms that children had to be hurled in over their heads; suddenly they have the space to flee from the alleged columns?

Globus
01-20-2007, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by Globus
You've already tried this gambit. The document is a piece of evidence.

You have still failed to explain why the two incriminating objects appear in a handwritten scrawl at the end of a typed list.

Because they were added after it was typed, duh!


Originally Posted by Globus
There was no problem with the columns during gassing. In fact, we know from evidence that the victims fled the area of the columns once the gas was introduced.

Your last “witness” account averred that people were packed so tightly into the rooms that children had to be hurled in over their heads; [/quote]

And still managed to move into piles. They moved away from the gas, which was introduced through columns which were quite sturdy.

delete
01-20-2007, 04:24 PM
And still managed to move into piles. They moved away from the gas, which was introduced through columns which were quite sturdy.
Wouldn't he have described them as clearly beeing piled aganst the walls?

Globus
01-20-2007, 04:26 PM
Wouldn't he have described them as clearly beeing piled aganst the walls?

No.

Do you have any serious arguments to make?

Ratatoskur
01-20-2007, 04:34 PM
<flames deleted>

TRY READING THE RULES!

Dances with Wolves
01-20-2007, 04:56 PM
The jews love to quote coerced confessions like Hoess. For everyones information, it takes 90 to 120 minutes to cremate ONE body, not 20 minutes for THREE!!
Why is it when you do a google search, this fact is on all the sites that actually deal with cremation, but the 20 minute lie is on all the jewish deniers sites? I guess the Germans, who needed all the resources they could muster, spared no expense to burn the little kikes as fast as they could with more than the coke required?!

Globus
01-20-2007, 05:10 PM
The jews love to quote coerced confessions like Hoess.

Hoess testified many times and wrote a 200 page memoir. They were not coerced.

For everyones information, it takes 90 to 120 minutes to cremate ONE body, not 20 minutes for THREE!!

No it doesn't. It depends on how you operate the crematoria. Multiple, simultaneous cremation results in much more rapid incineration, and the time was not just 20 minutes, as the oven manufacturers operating instructions point out.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/orgs/german/ftp.py?orgs/german//topf-und-soehne/furnace-oper-instr.en

As soon as the remains of the corpses have fallen from the chamotte
grid to the ash collection channel below, they should be pulled
forward towards the ash removal door, using the scraper. Here they
can be left for a further 20 minutes to be fully consumed, then the
ashes should be placed in the container and set aside to cool.

The 20 minutes referred to the interval before more corpses were introduced into the oven.

When you are not concerned about beautiful white ash to be given to the family you don't need to cremate the bodies until all the bone is broken down. Most of this happens in the first 20-30 minutes anyway. The Nazis had bone crushing and ash teams who removed remaining bones and crushed them.

Why is it when you do a google search, this fact is on all the sites that actually deal with cremation, but the 20 minute lie is on all the jewish deniers sites?

You haven't shown it to be a lie.

Commercial crematoria must operate according to government mandates governing the process. They don't, for example, allow burning multiple corpses at the same time. Then there is the difference in how completely the corpses need to be incinerated, which I've already explained.

delete
01-20-2007, 07:54 PM
Hoess testified many times and wrote a 200 page memoir. They were not coerced.

We know the that all the Allied countries used torture to get the information they wanted.
We find it most probable that torture and/or coersion was used as he stated 3 different figures for the number of jews killed, each time he gave the figure the Allieds wanted.

calvin
01-20-2007, 07:59 PM
Because they were added after it was typed, duh!

Yeah! Just a spur of the moment decision Globus; they couldn't decide between a snooker room a gym or a guest bedroom, at the last moment someone said, "fuck it, pencil in some wooden covers and some wire mesh devices and we'll make it a gas chamber!"

Globus
01-20-2007, 08:13 PM
Yeah! Just a spur of the moment decision Globus;

No. It is well known that Kremas II and III were modified from the original designs to make them suitable for mass murder.

It's a good thing you don't mind making pathetic arguments eh Calvin! The evidence for these devices is not in dispute.

delete
01-20-2007, 08:22 PM
Yeah! Just a spur of the moment decision Globus; they couldn't decide between a snooker room a gym or a guest bedroom, at the last moment someone said, "fuck it, pencil in some wooden covers and some wire mesh devices and we'll make it a gas chamber!"

Just to point out how Globus quotes.

calvin
01-20-2007, 08:35 PM
The evidence for these devices is not in dispute

Just like the evidence for the sky-ship wasn't in dispute in the middle ages.

Globus
01-20-2007, 08:57 PM
Just like the evidence for the sky-ship wasn't in dispute in the middle ages.

Why don't you expand on this ludicrous point, Calvin. I'm up for a good laugh.