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| I, CWAS
01-22-2007, 09:11 PM
Excerpted from "The Complex Interaction of Genes and Environment: A Model for Homosexuality" by Jeffrey Satinover,M.D.
http://www.narth.com/docs/pieces.html

...
(1) Our scenario starts with birth. The boy (for example) who one day may go on to struggle with homosexuality is born with certain features that are somewhat more common among homosexuals than in the population at large. Some of these traits might be inherited (genetic), while others might have been caused by the "intrauterine environment" (hormones). What this means is that a youngster without these traits will be somewhat less likely to become homosexual later than someone with them.

What are these traits? If we could identify them precisely, many of them would turn out to be gifts rather than "problems," for example a "sensitive" disposition, a strong creative drive, a keen aesthetic sense. Some of these, such as greater sensitivity, could be related to - or even the same as - physiological traits that also cause trouble, such as a greater-than-average anxiety response to any given stimulus.

No one knows with certainty just what these heritable characteristics are; at present we only have hints. Were we free to study homosexuality properly (uninfluenced by political agendas) we would certainly soon clarify these factors - just as we are doing in less contentious areas. In any case, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the behavior "homosexuality" is itself directly inherited.

(2) From a very early age potentially heritable characteristics mark the boy as "different." He finds himself somewhat shy and uncomfortable with the typical "rough and tumble" of his peers. Perhaps he is more interested in art or in reading - simply because he's smart. But when he later thinks about his early life, he will find it difficult to separate out what in these early behavioral differences came from an inherited temperament and what from the next factor, namely:

(3) That for whatever reason, he recalls a painful "mismatch" between what he needed and longed for and what his father offered him. Perhaps most people would agree that his father was distinctly distant and ineffective; maybe it was just that his own needs were unique enough that his father, a decent man, could never quite find the right way to relate to him. Or perhaps his father really disliked and rejected his son's sensitivity. In any event, the absence of a happy, warm, and intimate closeness with his father led to the boy's pulling away in disappointment, "defensively detaching" in order to protect himself.

But sadly, this pulling away from his father, and from the "masculine" role model he needed, also left him even less able to relate to his male peers. We may contrast this to the boy whose loving father dies, for instance, but who is less vulnerable to later homosexuality. This is because the commonplace dynamic in the pre-homosexual boy is not merely the absence of a father - literally or psychologically - but the psychological defense of the boy against his repeatedly disappointing father. In fact, a youngster who does not form this defense (perhaps because of early-enough therapy, or because there is another important male figure in his life, or due to temperament) is much less likely to become homosexual.

Complementary dynamics involving the boy's mother are also likely to have played an important role. Because people tend to marry partners with "interlocking neuroses," the boy probably found himself in a problematic relationship with both parents.

For all these reasons, when as an adult he looked back on his childhood, the now-homosexual man recalls, "From the beginning I was always different. I never got along well with the boys my age and felt more comfortable around girls." This accurate memory makes his later homosexuality feel convincingly to him as though it was "preprogrammed" from the start.

(4) Although he has "defensively detached" from his father, the young boy still carries silently within him a terrible longing for the warmth, love, and encircling arms of the father he never did nor could have. Early on, he develops intense, nonsexual attachments to older boys he admires - but at a distance, repeating with them the same experience of longing and unavailability. When puberty sets in, sexual urges - which can attach themselves to any object, especially in males - rise to the surface and combine with his already intense need for masculine intimacy and warmth. He begins to develop homosexual crushes. Later he recalls, "My first sexual longings were directed not at girls but at boys. I was never interested in girls."

Psychotherapeutic intervention at this point and earlier can be successful in preventing the development of later homosexuality. Such intervention is aimed in part at helping the boy change his developing effeminate patterns (which derive from a "refusal" to identify with the rejected father), but more critically, it is aimed at teaching his father - if only he will learn - how to become appropriately involved with and related to his son.

(5) As he matures (especially in our culture where early, extramarital sexual experiences are sanctioned and even encouraged), the youngster, now a teen, begins to experiment with homosexual activity. Or alternatively his needs for same-sex closeness may already have been taken advantage of by an older boy or man, who preyed upon him sexually when he was still a child. (Recall the studies that demonstrate the high incidence of sexual abuse in the childhood histories of homosexual men.) Or oppositely, he may avoid such activities out of fear and shame in spite of his attraction to them. In any event, his now-sexualized longings cannot merely be denied, however much he may struggle against them. It would be cruel for us at this point to imply that these longings are a simple matter of "choice."

Indeed, he remembers having spent agonizing months and years trying to deny their existence altogether or pushing them away, to no avail. One can easily imagine how justifiably angry he will later be when someone casually and thoughtlessly accuses him of "choosing" to be homosexual. When he seeks help, he hears one of two messages, and both terrify him; either, "Homosexuals are bad people and you are a bad person for choosing to be homosexual. There is no place for you here and God is going to see to it that you suffer for being so bad;" or "Homosexuality is inborn and unchangeable. You were born that way. Forget about your fairytale picture of getting married and having children and living in a little house with a white picket fence. God made you who you are and he/she destined you for the gay life. Learn to enjoy it."

(6) At some point, he gives in to his deep longings for love and begins to have voluntary homosexual experiences. He finds - possibly to his horror - that these old, deep, painful longings are at least temporarily, and for the first time ever, assuaged.

Although he may also therefore feel intense conflict, he cannot help admit that the relief is immense. This temporary feeling of comfort is so profound - going well beyond the simple sexual pleasure that anyone feels in a less fraught situation - that the experience is powerfully reinforced. However much he may struggle, he finds himself powerfully driven to repeat the experience. And the more he does, the more it is reinforced and the more likely it is he will repeat it yet again, though often with a sense of diminishing returns.

(7) He also discovers that, as for anyone, sexual orgasm is a powerful reliever of distress of all sorts. By engaging in homosexual activities he has already crossed one of the most critical and strongly enforced boundaries of sexual taboo. It is now easy for him to cross other taboo boundaries as well, especially the significantly less severe taboo pertaining to promiscuity. Soon homosexual activity becomes the central organizing factor in his life as he slowly acquires the habit of turning to it regularly - not just because of his original need for fatherly warmth of love, but to relieve anxiety of any sort.

(8) In time, his life becomes even more distressing than for most. Some of this is in fact, as activists claim, because all-too-often he experiences from others a cold lack of sympathy or even open hostility. The only people who seem really to accept him are other gays, and so he forms an even stronger bond with them as a "community." But it is not true, as activists claim, that these are the only or even the major stresses. Much distress is caused simply by his way of life - for example, the medical consequences, AIDS being just one of many (if also the worst). He also lives with the guilt and shame that he inevitably feels over his compulsive, promiscuous behavior; and too over the knowledge that he cannot relate effectively to the opposite sex and is less likely to have a family (a psychological loss for which political campaigns for homosexual marriage, adoption, and inheritance rights can never adequately compensate).

However much activists try to normalize for him these patterns of behavior and the losses they cause, and however expedient it may be for political purposes to hide them from the public-at-large, unless he shuts down huge areas of his emotional life he simply cannot honestly look at himself in this situation and feel content.

And no one - not even a genuine, dyed-in-the-wool, sexually insecure "homophobe" - is nearly so hard on him as he is on himself. Furthermore, the self-condemning messages that he struggles with on a daily basis are in fact only reinforced by the bitter self-derogating wit of the very gay culture he has embraced. The activists around him keep saying that it is all caused by the "internalized homophobia" of the surrounding culture, but he knows that it is not.

The stresses of "being gay" lead to more, not less, homosexual behavior. This principle, perhaps surprising to the layman (at least to the layman who has not himself gotten caught up in some pattern, of whatever type) is typical of the compulsive or addictive cycle of self-destructive behavior; wracking guilt, shame, and self-condemnation only causes it to increase. It is not surprising that people therefore turn to denial to rid themselves of these feelings, and he does too. He tells himself, "It is not a problem, therefore there is no reason for me to feel so bad about it."

(9) After wrestling with such guilt and shame for so many years, the boy, now an adult, comes to believe, quite understandably - and because of his denial, needs to believe - "I can't change anyway because the condition is unchangeable." If even for a moment he considers otherwise, immediately arises the painful query, "Then why haven't I...?" and with it returns all the shame and guilt.

Thus, by the time the boy becomes a man, he has pieced together this point of view: "I was always different, always an outsider. I developed crushes on boys from as long as I can remember and the first time I fell in love it was with a boy, not a girl. I had no real interest in members of the opposite sex. Oh, I tried all right - desperately. But my sexual experiences with girls were nothing special. But the first time I had homosexual sex it just 'felt right.' So it makes perfect sense to me that homosexuality is genetic. I've tried to change - God knows how long I struggled - and I just can't. That's because it's not changeable. Finally, I stopped struggling and just accepted myself the way I am."

(10) Social attitudes toward homosexuality will play a role in making it more or less likely that the man will adopt an "inborn and unchangeable" perspective, and at what point in his development. It is obvious that a widely shared and propagated worldview that normalizes homosexuality will increase the likelihood of his adopting such beliefs, and at an earlier age. But it is perhaps less obvious - it follows from what we have discussed above - that ridicule, rejection, and harshly punitive condemnation of him as a person will be just as likely (if not more likely) to drive him into the same position.

(11) If he maintains his desire for a traditional family life, the man may continue to struggle against his "second nature." Depending on whom he meets, he may remain trapped between straight condemnation and gay activism, both in secular institutions and in religious ones. The most important message he needs to hear is that "healing is possible."

(12) If he enters the path to healing, he will find that the road is long and difficult - but extraordinarily fulfilling. The course to full restoration of heterosexuality typically lasts longer than the average American marriage - which should be understood as an index of how broken all relationships are today.

From the secular therapies he will come to understand what the true nature of his longings are, that they are not really about sex, and that he is not defined by his sexual appetites. In such a setting, he will very possibly learn how to turn aright to other men to gain from them a genuine, nonsexualized masculine comradeship and intimacy; and how to relate aright to woman, as friend, lover, life's companion, and, God willing, mother of his children.

Of course the old wounds will not simply disappear, and later in times of great distress the old paths of escape will beckon. But the claim that this means he is therefore "really" a homosexual and unchanged is a lie. For as he lives a new life of ever-growing honesty, and cultivates genuine intimacy with the woman of his heart, the new patterns will grow ever stronger and the old ones engraved in the synapses of his brain ever weaker.

In time, knowing that they really have little to do with sex, he will even come to respect and put to good use what faint stirrings remain of the old urges. They will be for him a kind of storm-warning, a signal that something is out of order in his house, that some old pattern of longing and rejection and defense is being activated. And he will find that no sooner does he set his house in order that indeed the old urges once again abate. In his relations to others - as friend, husband, professional - he will now have a special gift. What was once a curse will have become a blessing, to himself and to others.

delete
01-22-2007, 10:36 PM
Excerpted from "The Complex Interaction of Genes and Environment: A Model for Homosexuality" by Jeffrey Satinover,M.D.
http://www.narth.com/docs/pieces.html

I don't see how sane people can hold that position in 2007.

http://www.nhm.uio.no/againstnature/gayanimals.html

Homosexuality in the Animal kingdom

Can animals be homosexual?
The sexual urge is strong in all animals. Many species have sex outside the mating season and commonly enjoy sex without reproductive intent – rubbing their sexual organs against each other or stimulating themselves or their partners in other ways. When animals of the same gender have sex, they exhibit homosexual behaviour. We call such animals homosexuals. Some animals are consistently homosexual throughout their life.

http://www.nhm.uio.no/againstnature/images/PIC00166.jpg
Pleasure ride: A male killer whale rides the dorsal fin of another male. Sex just for the pleasure of it is common in many animals.

Which animals are homosexual?
Homosexuality has been observed in most vertebrate groups, and also from insects, spiders, crustaceans, octopi and parasitic worms. The phenomenon has been reported from more than 1500 animal species, and is well documented for 500 of them, but the real extent is probably much higher.

The frequency of homosexuality varies from species to species. In some species, homosexuality has never been reported, while in others the entire species is bisexual. In zoos around 1 in 5 pairs of king penguins are of the same sex. The record is held by orange fronted parakeets, where roughly half of all pairs in captivity are of the same sex.

http://www.nhm.uio.no/againstnature/images/Gravender_350px.jpg
Two homosexual male shelducks, Tadorna tadorna, mating. While homosexuality probably occurs across the whole Animal Kingdom, the animals dominating the statistics are the larger, more conspicuous species, especially those where the male and female differ greatly, making same-sex mating easy to spot.

Why haven’t we been told?
Homosexuality in animals has been known since Antiquity, but has only recently made it into mainstream science. The cause may be a lack of interest, distaste, ridicule or scientists fearing to lose their grants. The few scientists publishing on the topic, often made sure their own sexual preferences were known, directly or indirectly.

Some scientists have interpreted same-sex pairing as anything but sex. In a study of giraffes in Africa a researcher registered all cases where a male sniffed a female as “sexual interest” – while anal intercourse with ejaculation between males was registered as a form of ritualised fighting (“sparring”), despite the fact that 94% of all registered sexual activity in one area took place between males. Only recently has scientists started investigating homosexuality in animals in earnest.

Dr. Gutberlet
01-23-2007, 02:46 AM
having a vegan/vegetarian mother who consumes lots of soy products. being fed soy formula as opposed to human milk.

Julian Curtis Lee
01-23-2007, 02:50 AM
Homosexuality is the result of warpage and conditioning. First the warping of the sexual instinct: Any man can become a homosexual if violated or exposed at the wrong time. If a homosexual man masturbates a young boy, for example, the psycho-biological wiring acts on cue, and now the boy associates his sex charge with the male. It's similar to the way a high power voltage line works: Touch it to something, it sticks. That's warpage; misdirection of the sex drive. In the same way people can come to connect sex to violence, their own humiliation, to dead things, and animals. If they are induced to the powerful sexual orgasm in connection with these items, it develops a connection to those things. Perverted men who do this should be punished severely.

There are other dynamics, obviously, including karmic ones. But this is the warpage, and the first conditioning. Through repetitive conditioning his habits and sensibilities become more firmly entrenched.

The Buddhists state that male homosexuality is the result of much abuse of the sexual instinct in past incarnations, such as masturbation. He develops a strong sexual relationship with the male organ -- his own organ -- until the organ itself develops an erotic charge for him. And of course the Buddhists, especially the Tibetans, get these ideas not from conjecture, but from crossing the death threshhold in the state of samadhi and seeing the process of incarnations actually taking place in real time. Tibetan Buddhist knowledge is gained experiencially; it's not just theories. It tallies with my understanding of human conditioning and the misdirection of the sex instinct.

Dr. Gutberlet
01-23-2007, 02:53 AM
I forgot to state that I believe homosexuality to be a purely biological condition, as it also occurs in the animal kingdom.

Julian Curtis Lee
01-23-2007, 02:57 AM
Biology follows consciousness.

The Retard
01-23-2007, 03:10 AM
Humans are not like other animals, we have consciousness. We are aware of our bodies and know right from wrong.

delete
01-23-2007, 04:30 AM
having a vegan/vegetarian mother who consumes lots of soy products. being fed soy formula as opposed to human milk.

I forgot to state that I believe homosexuality to be a purely biological condition, as it also occurs in the animal kingdom.

With other words, it happens in the Uterus during pregnancy. Anything that influences the mother from psyche to food, might make the featus develop wrong.

SlagMaster
01-23-2007, 04:32 AM
Homosexuality is natures way of saying you are damaged goods, unfit
genetically to procreate, a kind of suicide before you contribute to the
gene pool.
At a micro biological level, cells self destruct with self induced suicide,
when genetic damage is detected that would prevent healthy
cell division.
Oddly, cells which are unable to carry out this process of suicide,
when damaged, become Cancer catalysts.

Could Homos be our Societal Cancer? - Ha

New Scientist
01-24-2007, 07:07 AM
Homosexuality is the result of warpage and conditioning. First the warping of the sexual instinct: Any man can become a homosexual if violated or exposed at the wrong time. If a homosexual man masturbates a young boy, for example, the psycho-biological wiring acts on cue, and now the boy associates his sex charge with the male. It's similar to the way a high power voltage line works: Touch it to something, it sticks. That's warpage; misdirection of the sex drive. In the same way people can come to connect sex to violence, their own humiliation, to dead things, and animals. If they are induced to the powerful sexual orgasm in connection with these items, it develops a connection to those things. Perverted men who do this should be punished severely.

There are other dynamics, obviously, including karmic ones. But this is the warpage, and the first conditioning. Through repetitive conditioning his habits and sensibilities become more firmly entrenched.

The Buddhists state that male homosexuality is the result of much abuse of the sexual instinct in past incarnations, such as masturbation. He develops a strong sexual relationship with the male organ -- his own organ -- until the organ itself develops an erotic charge for him. And of course the Buddhists, especially the Tibetans, get these ideas not from conjecture, but from crossing the death threshhold in the state of samadhi and seeing the process of incarnations actually taking place in real time. Tibetan Buddhist knowledge is gained experiencially; it's not just theories. It tallies with my understanding of human conditioning and the misdirection of the sex instinct.

You could well do with reading any standard uni text on neuroscience. They have entire sections dedicated to the brain and sexual development. Pre-natally there are dozens of bilogical scenarios which prime homo or bisexuality for life, which gets triggered at puberty. There are also many environmental biology based ones. Most of these happen before age four.

I think there are many more people out there who have squewed biological sexuality and are living straight lives than there are who express homosexual behaviour from totally psychological reasons. Type r populations supress homosexual behaviours, especially in women. From experience many of the women i meet in extreme type r populations can be pretty tough and agressive. I often look at the digit ratio of the women i work with (in one of the most agressive spots in europe) and very often they have male type digit ratios. However the men here are so extremely agressive these women can be dominated. Put those women in an average population and there may be few who can take them on.

Also many of the traits in that article " a "sensitive" disposition, a strong creative drive, a keen aesthetic sense" can be linked to the neurology of the mild brain dysfunctions which make people creative. These are not linked directly to homosexuality, but mild sensory disorders. If a person exhibits some of these sensory disorders, within some tough populations they may be percieved as weak, classed as gay and take on that identity.

New Scientist
01-24-2007, 07:12 AM
Homosexuality is natures way of saying you are damaged goods, unfit
genetically to procreate, a kind of suicide before you contribute to the
gene pool.
At a micro biological level, cells self destruct with self induced suicide,
when genetic damage is detected that would prevent healthy
cell division.
Oddly, cells which are unable to carry out this process of suicide,
when damaged, become Cancer catalysts.

Could Homos be our Societal Cancer? - Ha

Homosexuality is just the self mediation of hormone level dynamics in response to the environment. We should really be talking about adaptive bisexuality, an expression of this phenomena which is far more prevailent.

Get to grips with that, your strange "burn the witch" style opinions and you might be ready to move from that to understand full blown homosexuality. :bitchfight:

Helios Panoptes
01-24-2007, 01:59 PM
I believe male bisexuality is more myth than fact. The reason for this is that research on male arousal indicates that the male sex drive is focused almost exclusively on one gender or the other. Bisexual men, also, are aroused by one gender, but not both. They are usually homosexual. On the other hand, women might be naturally bisexual. The same type of research on women indicates that both gay and straight women are aroused by both genders.

Professor John Frink
01-24-2007, 02:42 PM
So it is down to mother: gay gene survives because it boosts fertility
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1306894,00.html

New Scientist
01-26-2007, 03:15 AM
I believe male bisexuality is more myth than fact. The reason for this is that research on male arousal indicates that the male sex drive is focused almost exclusively on one gender or the other. Bisexual men, also, are aroused by one gender, but not both. They are usually homosexual. On the other hand, women might be naturally bisexual. The same type of research on women indicates that both gay and straight women are aroused by both genders.

Unlike bisexual women, who oscillate rapidly between sexes, within a year. I would predict, bisexual male sexual preference to polarize and continue on a path for longer periods. Then it may exhaust, suddenly change and go the other way.

I havent read the research you did or if they investigated long term switches.

todd
02-15-2007, 10:24 PM
Excerpted from "The Complex Interaction of Genes and Environment: A Model for Homosexuality" by Jeffrey Satinover,M.D.
http://www.narth.com/docs/pieces.htmlPersonality and behavior have almost nothing to do with parental upbringing.

EdwardSmith
02-15-2007, 11:38 PM
Human male homosexuality is caused by an excessively high level of testosterone
in the uterus during fetal develpment. Much of the testosterone is converted to estradiol.
The estradiol in turn alters the development of the fetus's brain, including the center for
sexual recognition and reward. However, testosterone is also converted to
dihydrotestosterone, which causes homosexual males to have a higher incidence of
certain male-typical traits as well, including dyslexia and left-handedness. Likewise,
female homosexuality results from an excessively high level of testosterone in the
uterus, except that it is the dihydrotestosterone rather than the estradiol that causes
the changes. The genetic component of female homosexuality is larger than that of male
homosexuality, but having said genetic component is not sufficient to cause female
homosexuality; it must be combined with the necessary intrauterine environment. Note
that homosexuality is twice as common in males (2.5%) than in females (1.2%). Due
to the delicacy of brain development in the uterus, there are bound to be errors in some
people.