How manipulative are you ?

[New Scientist]

How manipulative are you ?

This is one of these strange questions. Nobody who is manipulative wants to admit it.

Especially on the internet.

Because I’m right brain dominant, I’ve never been manipulative. I’ve tried to be. I can devise plans and strategies, lied and done some criminal things in my younger life. They weren’t really manipulations that built up to dominate anyones psychology. Just quick ripoff schemes directed towards large institutions. They would become apparent quickly. So I was always moving on to do another kind.

I’ve tried to and define hypocrisy previously and it tied in with manipulation, convergence, femininity and left brain dominance.

See “Is white nationalism a Type K strategy ?”

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19632

I concluded that groups of manipulative people will quite happily gravitate towards a consensus for convergent agendas, which lead them eventually towards deceiving themselves and each other.

What I’m asking here is. Will anyone here admit to being manipulative, or is this an impossible thing to ask ? I'd really like to know what it is like being manipulative, from an insiders view.

I know from observing manipulative people that they are “watchers”. They tend to be on the lookout for anyone who is not manipulative and hone in on them. I’ve also observed that when “watchers” operate together in isolation, in the absence of anybody who can be manipulated. (men mainly) They are kind of like a streetful of cats. Each sitting in their own space. Life settles into quiet games, hierarchies and periodically careful demonstrations.

The manipulative humans I’ve observed, who are mostly female, seem to be trapped in self reflection. They gravitate towards material things because those things are still, dependable and concrete.

Come on spit it out.. admit some of your darkest manipulations…

[harjit]

Sprinkles, this is a bizarre question.

Everyone has many facets to their personality, and a wide repertoire of behaviours in differet situations.

This includes being manipulative. Babies manipulate their parents to get fed.

Some people are sociopathic but they are a small minority. Although I do suspect that there is a slightly higher degree of this on average among people at the top of the pyramid, especially in business and politics. My mom is a biologist and she said this is true in academia as well. Those at the top are not just brilliant but invariably very politically shrewd as well.

[Ahknaton]

Funny how you say that no-one wants to admit to being manipulative, and then immediately confirm your theory by denying that you are manipulative yourself. Perhaps you should have tried to manipulate us with a token admission to put us at ease and make us think that we won't be "judged".

Personally I've never been a manipulator on a major scale. I have to admit that this is mostly due to poor social skills and charisma owing to my fairly high level of introversion. I have become a little bit more adept at "managing" people (not in the employment sense) as opposed to "manipulating" them in recent years as I have become more worldy-wise. For example, if I have some inconvenient or unpleasant information I do a "controlled release", being careful of timing, location and the order in which I let people know. I've also picked up on how to get people to do things for you by making them feel flattered (as opposed to put upon) that you went to them for help. I learnt this from females who typically use it on males, but you can also use it to your advantage in a work situation if there are people with big egos who like being thought of as the "expert" or "go to guy" in certain areas.

[New Scientist]

[QUOTE=Ahknabashi]Funny how you say that no-one wants to admit to being manipulative, and then immediately confirm your theory by denying that you are manipulative yourself. Perhaps you should have tried to manipulate us with a token admission to put us at ease and make us think that we won't be "judged".


My admission of my most shamefull acts of criminal deceit, Is not a token admission. Its an analysis that during my periods of highest deciet, i never really managed to control anyone.

If I had, I wouldnt be so engrossed to feel, that i' lack this capacity to be so. I am on the outside regarding what it takes to be manipulative. The theory is that it requires left brain dominance to have a key capacity to control.

For example, if I have some inconvenient or unpleasant information I do a "controlled release", being careful of timing, location and the order in which I let people know.

They did studies on sex differences and lies. Women were found to lie more than men, the reasons given were primarilly to spare others feelings.

I've also picked up on how to get people to do things for you by making them feel flattered (as opposed to put upon) that you went to them for help. I learnt this from females who typically use it on males, but you can also use it to your advantage in a work situation if there are people with big egos who like being thought of as the "expert" or "go to guy" in certain areas.

Cool shrit !! Now this is really getting into it. I notice this pattern with an ex-girlfriend who will send me a series of messages when trying to get me to fix something. They begin with asking me how i'm doing. Trying to engage me. Soon as i engage, quickly, proceed to the request. Sometimes i get really pissed and irrate, because i'm absorbed or need to commit myself to uninterrupted laziness..At that stage i become totally irrational..

..Whenever that occurs flattery ensuses. When you flatter are you carefully watching if the subject is getting hooked ?

Is the flattery a lie. DO you belive any of it ?

Also do you percieve those with expanded egos as deserving manipulation ?

[New Scientist]

Sprinkles, this is a bizarre question.

Everyone has many facets to their personality, and a wide repertoire of behaviours in differet situations.

This includes being manipulative. Babies manipulate their parents to get fed.

Some people are sociopathic but they are a small minority. Although I do suspect that there is a slightly higher degree of this on average among people at the top of the pyramid, especially in business and politics. My mom is a biologist and she said this is true in academia as well. Those at the top are not just brilliant but invariably very politically shrewd as well.

Infant manipulation is instinctive. Its everyday thinking manipulation i'm getting at. How women get men to do things they can't do or get. Men tend to persuade, co-erce, bargain or dominate. Its very upfront.

[Ahknaton]

Funny how you say that no-one wants to admit to being manipulative, and then immediately confirm your theory by denying that you are manipulative yourself. Perhaps you should have tried to manipulate us with a token admission to put us at ease and make us think that we won't be "judged".

My admission of my most shamefull acts of criminal deceit, Is not a token admission. Its an analysis that during my periods of highest deciet, i never really managed to control anyone.
Understood. I didn't take it as a token admission, what I was wondering was whether making a token admission of minor manipulative behaviour might have encouraged others to share. The fact that you did not do this perhaps confirms that you are not a manipulative person.

If I had, I wouldnt be so engrossed to feel, that i' lack this capacity to be so. I am on the outside regarding what it takes to be manipulative. The theory is that it requires left brain dominance to have a key capacity to control.
I don't think I really have an innate ability to manipulate. I'm more of a people-watcher, and I learn through mimickry (to the extent that I do manipulate people, which isn't much). I usually learn about people's manipulation strategies by being on the receiving end of it, and then getting wise. It's a lot easier to observe and form theories than to carry out a successful manipulation too. I think that a lot of manipulative people (especially women) aren't really consciously strategizing their manipulations, just doing what comes naturally.

For example, if I have some inconvenient or unpleasant information I do a "controlled release", being careful of timing, location and the order in which I let people know.

They did studies on sex differences and lies. Women were found to lie more than men, the reasons given were primarilly to spare others feelings.
Well aren't I just a big girl's blouse? Personally, I don't lie, I just deliver the truth in the most diplomatic way possible. This might sound like rationalisation, but it's the truth.

I've also picked up on how to get people to do things for you by making them feel flattered (as opposed to put upon) that you went to them for help. I learnt this from females who typically use it on males, but you can also use it to your advantage in a work situation if there are people with big egos who like being thought of as the "expert" or "go to guy" in certain areas.

Cool shrit !! Now this is really getting into it. I notice this pattern with an ex-girlfriend who will send me a series of messages when trying to get me to fix something. They begin with asking me how i'm doing. Trying to engage me. Soon as i engage, quickly, proceed to the request. Sometimes i get really pissed and irrate, because i'm absorbed or need to commit myself to uninterrupted laziness..At that stage i become totally irrational..
Yeah I've had it done to me too, and often. A classic is to play the role of "helpless female" in need of a knight in shining armour to fix their computer/help move heavy stuff etc. I've noticed that some women are quite content to demean their own mental abilities in order to persuade you that they NEED you to do something for them (as opposed to them just being lazy, or taking the easy way out). In other circumstances of course they will resent the implication that they are mentally inferior in any way. Another tactic is to ask two males to fix one of their problems, and then the males will compete for their approval.

..Whenever that occurs flattery ensuses. When you flatter are you carefully watching if the subject is getting hooked ?
I don't lay it on too thick. Usually just something like "this problem came up and I immediately knew you were the man for the job". Of course I do watch to see if they are being sucked in. If they raise any objections "e.g. I'm busy right now" then go for the reverse psychology trick of claiming that it's no big deal and you don't want to bother them. Then they will feel guilty for having fobbed you off (when you were so polite and everything, and obviously didn't mean to be a burden) and they will get it done asap to try to pleasantly surprise you.

Is the flattery a lie. DO you belive any of it ?
It's usually an exaggeration, which is a form of lie.
Also do you percieve those with expanded egos as deserving manipulation ?
Mostly yes. I've gotten sucked into doing other people's work for them at a few jobs, and I have no compunction about turning the tables if I think they deserve it.

[todd]

When I was 6 I stole a piece of caramel from the grocery store. When I got home I felt bad so I told my mom I had taken it, we went back to the store and I confessed to the manager. I'm not sure but I think he let me keep it. That is the extent of my thievery.

[Ahknaton]

Just on the subject of women manipulating men, there's a bit of body language that comes into it too. I had a friend a while ago who was one of the most girly girls I've ever known (constantly shrieking with laughter and the most inane things, exaggerated feminine body language all the time etc). When she wanted to ask me a favour she'd link of slink up to me and make doe eyes, address me using an affectionate name "Chrisseeee....I've got a huge favour to ask you...". You'd think that she'd downplay the size of the favour to make it seem less onerous, but typically she'd exaggerate it (so that you'd feel like an even more swell guy for doing it for her).

She'd stand up close, put her hands on my shoulders and kind of slouch backwards, almost as if she had to hold on to me to stand up. What a poor, helpless creature! How could I possibly fail to help her? After delivering the request, she'd bow her head down and look up at me with a pleading look in her eyes, and when I (inevitably) capitulated, she'd throw her hands in the air with a "Yippee!" as if magically reinvigorated and thrust her breasts forward towards my face.

It was so blatant, but I fell for it every time. Like a cat playing with a mouse really. God damn I'm glad I dodged that bullet in the end.

[New Scientist]

Understood. I didn't take it as a token admission, what I was wondering was whether making a token admission of minor manipulative behaviour might have encouraged others to share. The fact that you did not do this perhaps confirms that you are not a manipulative person.


I don't think I really have an innate ability to manipulate. I'm more of a people-watcher, and I learn through mimickry (to the extent that I do manipulate people, which isn't much). I usually learn about people's manipulation strategies by being on the receiving end of it, and then getting wise. It's a lot easier to observe and form theories than to carry out a successful manipulation too. I think that a lot of manipulative people (especially women) aren't really consciously strategizing their manipulations, just doing what comes naturally.


Well aren't I just a big girl's blouse? Personally, I don't lie, I just deliver the truth in the most diplomatic way possible. This might sound like rationalisation, but it's the truth.


Yeah I've had it done to me too, and often. A classic is to play the role of "helpless female" in need of a knight in shining armour to fix their computer/help move heavy stuff etc. I've noticed that some women are quite content to demean their own mental abilities in order to persuade you that they NEED you to do something for them (as opposed to them just being lazy, or taking the easy way out). In other circumstances of course they will resent the implication that they are mentally inferior in any way. Another tactic is to ask two males to fix one of their problems, and then the males will compete for their approval.


I don't lay it on too thick. Usually just something like "this problem came up and I immediately knew you were the man for the job". Of course I do watch to see if they are being sucked in. If they raise any objections "e.g. I'm busy right now" then go for the reverse psychology trick of claiming that it's no big deal and you don't want to bother them. Then they will feel guilty for having fobbed you off (when you were so polite and everything, and obviously didn't mean to be a burden) and they will get it done asap to try to pleasantly surprise you.


It's usually an exaggeration, which is a form of lie.

Mostly yes. I've gotten sucked into doing other people's work for them at a few jobs, and I have no compunction about turning the tables if I think they deserve it.

None of this appears like innate manipulation. Looks like you are kind of involved within reward based scenarios or environment, and need to adopt the strategies through experience.

Are you succesfull at this with people of your own experience and intellectual level ?

[Ahknaton]

None of this appears like innate manipulation. Looks like you are kind of involved within reward based scenarios or environment, and need to adopt the strategies through experience.
Yeah that's pretty much it.
Are you succesfull at this with people of your own experience and intellectual level ?
I'm better at it with other guys, but not so much with women. Can't outfox a fox after all. They are the masters. Guys tend to seek validation and status from other males within a group hierarchy, and if you're in a position to offer/withhold this then you have a hold on them. With women other factors are involved.

[New Scientist]

Just on the subject of women manipulating men, there's a bit of body language that comes into it to. I had a friend a while ago who was one of the most girly girls I've ever known (constantly shrieking with laughter and the most inane things, exaggerated feminine body language all the time etc). When she wanted to ask me a favour she'd link of slink up to me and make doe eyes, address me using an affectionate name "Chrisseeee....I've got a huge favour to ask you...". You'd think that she'd downplay the size of the favour to make it seem less onerous, but typically she'd exaggerate it (so that you'd feel like an even more swell guy for doing it for her).

She'd stand up close, put her hands on my shoulders and kind of slouch backwards, almost as if she had to hold on to me to stand up. What a poor, helpless creature! How could I possibly fail to help her? After delivering the request, she'd bow her head down and look up at me with a pleading look in her eyes, and when I (inevitably) capitulated, she'd throw her hands in the air with a "Yippee!" as if magically reinvigorated and thrust her breasts forward towards my face.

It was so blatant, but I fell for it every time. Like a cat playing with a mouse really. God damn I'm glad I dodged that bullet in the end.


That sounds like the blatant female comedy style. I know a girl like this. I ended up chasing after her. IT gets you going. Pleasurable manipulation.

.

[New Scientist]

Methinks, I'd be better going to some womens forums on delphi and quizzing them there.

:gone: :gone: :gone: :gone:

[Lieutenant William Bligh]

What I’m asking here is. Will anyone here admit to being manipulative, or is this an impossible thing to ask ? I'd really like to know what it is like being manipulative, from an insiders view.

I know from observing manipulative people that they are “watchers”. They tend to be on the lookout for anyone who is not manipulative and hone in on them. I’ve also observed that when “watchers” operate together in isolation, in the absence of anybody who can be manipulated. (men mainly) They are kind of like a streetful of cats. Each sitting in their own space. Life settles into quiet games, hierarchies and periodically careful demonstrations.

The manipulative humans I’ve observed, who are mostly female, seem to be trapped in self reflection. They gravitate towards material things because those things are still, dependable and concrete.

Come on spit it out.. admit some of your darkest manipulations…

A few stories of manipulators I've come into contact with, before I think of my own tricks:

There was this Jewish-mixed kid, son of a famous media personality who I know personally. I was very young. We were playing a game. He hits me. Cheats. I get upset and shout at him. I call him a bully. I start to cry and chase after him. I stop and walk away. He goes to a teacher, and "tells on me"... before I can tell on me, as he realized I had made the decision to not play with him any more. The teacher comes to me and asks me what I was upset about, and why I had started the fight. ( I think that was how it happened.)

Very sneaky. I hated him for a while after that.

I've never practiced this kind of manipulation on others. (I wouldn't do this.)

---

Here's one:

Two ugly non-White girls seemed to have a crush on me. I told one of them one thing, and the other something else. Then I watched them fight each other.


I know from observing manipulative people that they are “watchers”. They tend to be on the lookout for anyone who is not manipulative and hone in on them. I’ve also observed that when “watchers” operate together in isolation, in the absence of anybody who can be manipulated. (men mainly) They are kind of like a streetful of cats. Each sitting in their own space. Life settles into quiet games, hierarchies and periodically careful demonstrations.

I am an observer. Though I prefer to just blend in with a group and forget myself. Though, I am unfortunately aware of the not so obvious actions of others.

(Letting women know you are a male-manipulator I think this is in most cases a turn-off for women, am I correct? Women, like to keep the manipulative power to themselves.)

[Niko Bellic]

I concluded that groups of manipulative people will quite happily gravitate towards a consensus for convergent agendas, which lead them eventually towards deceiving themselves and each other.

What I’m asking here is. Will anyone here admit to being manipulative, or is this an impossible thing to ask ? I'd really like to know what it is like being manipulative, from an insiders view.

I know from observing manipulative people that they are “watchers”. They tend to be on the lookout for anyone who is not manipulative and hone in on them. I’ve also observed that when “watchers” operate together in isolation, in the absence of anybody who can be manipulated. (men mainly) They are kind of like a streetful of cats. Each sitting in their own space. Life settles into quiet games, hierarchies and periodically careful demonstrations.

The manipulative humans I’ve observed, who are mostly female, seem to be trapped in self reflection. They gravitate towards material things because those things are still, dependable and concrete.

Come on spit it out.. admit some of your darkest manipulations…

I prefer to think of it as being persuasive. I have an unfair advantage that I was born with, sometimes I use it without even thinking about it.

(Letting women know you are a male-manipulator I think this is in most cases a turn-off for women, am I correct?

If you mean saying "Hello young lady, I am a manipulator." or anything direct, then yes you're correct. Otherwise you're incorrect.

[Isra'il Yahya]

Not very manipulative at all. I tend to be more of the direct kind of person when I want something.

[Алекс]

I am usually unmanipulative, I find most of the people-shaped obscenities surrounding me unworth investing my effort in however, if I take an interest in someone then I can manipulate that person and make her my slave. I usually only do it to females. However usually I get disgusted with the situation and discard that girl quickly.

[kane123123/Eagle Eye/stumbler/iceman]

I think this is something that is better judged by someone else than by yourself. I would say I don't manipulate people just for the sake of it, and tend to desire to accomplish things on my own merits. I would say I am generally not manipulative.

[kultron]

I'm the most manipulative person I know. That gives me great advantages at times, though I do end up in a lot of sticky situations... I can't help it!

[Petyr Baelish]

I manipulate people almost constantly. In my defense I usually don't do it consciously, let alone with malicious intent.

[Ahmadinebobina]

Too manipulative for my own good.

[Ahmadinebobina]

If you mean saying "Hello young lady, I am a manipulator."

That would SERIOUSLY work on me. Excellent. :whip:

[Jake Featherston]

To be manipulative, you pretty much have to have a goodly amount of what I'll call a certain kind of intelligence, sometimes defined as "social skills." I, like a seemingly disproportionate number of high-IQ men, don't have enough of that form of intelligence to basically be anything but sincere. I wouldn't know how to go about manipulating another person.

[Ratatoskur]

One time a chick said on the road: "At this junction a friend of mine died in a car-accident." It was really close to a cemetery, so naturally I remarked that she died conveniently close to the cemetery. Which turned out to be really rude, but I thought we were making small-talk and that I was being clever.

Like the first time you kiss a girl you're hanging out with? Every time it came as a complete surprise to me. I'm very bad at picking up signals; body posture, tone of voice, sarcasm, facial expressions. These have to be very exaggerated for me to pick them up, or I've had to have known the person for a long time to "learn" them. On the good side that makes me a bit harder to scam. I focus more on the information, rater than the flamboyant self-confident and well-dressed front of scammers.