Why are all of the greatest contemporary science fiction writers Jewish?

[Ixtab]

And before you say there are no great contemporary science fiction writers - I would be inclined to agree only a year ago - I strongly recommend reading the works of the Jew Stanislaw Lem, the Jew Barry N Malzberg, and the Jew Larry Niven. These writers justify science fiction. I would not be inclined to call science fiction 'literature' if it were not for these writers. Literature of such quality is very rare nowadays.

Contrast them with non-Jewish science fiction writers - the witless pop-lit of Orson Scott Card, Baxtor, Gibson, Sterling, etc.

(I am excluding, of course, non-contemporary science fiction writers - such as H.G. Wells, my favourite 20th century writer.)

[Ahknaton]

Robert Heinlein - Gentile
Isaac Asimov - Jewish
Arthur C Clarke - Gentile
Phillip K Dick - Gentile
Ray Bradbury - Gentile

[Jim West]

I strongly recommend reading the works of the Jew Stanislaw Lem, the Jew Barry N Malzberg, and the Jew Larry Niven. These writers justify science fiction. All shitty sci-fi writers, and not because they're "jewz". It's because they're all shitty sci-fi writers.

The very best were/are non-Jewish: Arthur C. Clarke, Robert A. Heinlein, A.E. van Vogt, and many others. Larry Niven sux Martian cock, his novels are so dull.

[Ahknaton]

Robert Heinlein - Gentile
Isaac Asimov - Jewish
Arthur C Clarke - Gentile
Phillip K Dick - Gentile
Ray Bradbury - Gentile
How could I forget:

Ward Kendall - Gentile

[Fenris]

Here's another SciFi fan's list and your boys don't make the top twelve.

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/5/5/62620/94512

[Ixtab]

You neglected to mention Barry N Malzberg, Larry Niven, and Stanislaw Lem. They are not household names like Asimov or Arhur C. Clarke, but that is because their works are more intellectually sophisticated, less pulpy. Appealing to the lowest common denominator is not their business. Their works actually qualify as 'literature'. They will be rememberd along with such pioneers as H.G. Wells and Marry Shelley, whilst Asimov and Arthur Clarke will be forgotten within a century. If you have not read any of their works, you have yet to read science fiction literature.

Or, to put it another way: Heinlein, Clarke, etc are the Robert Luis Stevensons, the Conan Doyles, the Dumases of science fiction; not the Dickenses, the Fieldings, or the Carlyles. Great as poplit, but nothing more than that. Not literature. Entertainment merely.

Still, this is quite beside the point. I think it would be fruitless to deny that the greatest contemporary science fiction writers are overrepresentedly Jewish - more so than in fantasy fiction, for example, where Jews even seem to be underrepresented amongst the greats.


Robert Heinlein - GentileGood but overated.Isaac Asimov - JewishJewish, yes, but overrated. His writings never went beyond poplit, his writing style is too pulpy.Arthur C Clarke - GentileVery much overrated. Poplit, not real literature.Phillip K Dick - GentileA good writer.Ray Bradbury - GentileAre you serious?

[Petr]

A good writer.
Probably because Dick had genuine religious tendencies. I do not believe that non-religious people can write great literature, few rule-confirming exceptions nonwithstanding.


The Religious Experience of Philip K. Dick

by Robert Crumb

http://www.philipkdickfans.com/weirdo/weirdo1.htm


Petr

[Ixtab]

Here's another SciFi fan's list and your boys don't make the top twelve.

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/5/5/62620/94512
LOL, this is just pulpy, witless pop-lit. Anyone who considers Stephen Baxtor, Iain M. Banks, or Orson Scott Card as great writers is an idiot.

Sorry, I read real literature. Dickens, Fielding, Carlyle, Shelley. Not this pulp fiction-esque trash.

[Ixtab]

Jim West:

Welcome back.

Van Vogt is good, the others you mentioned - I classify their 'literature' is entertainment, mere junkfood for the brain; tasty junkfood at that, but junkfood all the same. Same goes for the writers Ahknabashi listed.

Have you actually read Stanislaw Lem or Barry N Malzberg? These writers, as I said, make science fiction worthy of the name 'literature'.

Edit: Can someone move this thread to High Culture, or at least the Lounge? I misplaced it. I thank you in advance.

[Jake Featherston]

You neglected to mention Barry N Malzberg, Larry Niven, and Stanislaw Lem. They are not household names like Asimov or Arhur C. Clarke, but that is because their works are more intellectually sophisticated, less pulpy.

Larry Niven is pretty well known. I've read a couple of his books; he's not bad.

They will be rememberd along with such pioneers as H.G. Wells and Marry Shelley, whilst Asimov and Arthur Clarke will be forgotten within a century.

What do you think of Jules Verne?

A good writer.

Its strangely appropriate that Ix likes Phillip K. Dick. He's one of my favorites as well.

[Kodos]

Clarke was a pretty smart guy...

[Ixtab]

What do you think of Jules Verne?He was a good writer, but, like Asimov or Stevenson or Conan Doyle or Edgar Rice Burroughs, his works were never more than entertaining. Fun stories to read, to be sure, but artistically derelict. H.G. Wells is far greater than Jules Verne. His writing is 'literature' in the highest sense. His writings can be numbered along with the works of Mary Shelley and Henry Fielding with no impropriety. People who don't usually like science fiction can enjoy it, too. H.G. Wells is the greatest speculative thinker of all time, in my opinion. No one has ever surpassed him.

Clarke was a pretty smart guy...Is. He is not dead yet.

[Jim West]

Have you actually read Stanislaw Lem or Barry N Malzberg? These writers, as I said, make science fiction worthy of the name 'literature'.
They may make "literature" worthy of the name, but they do not make science fiction worthy of reading it - that is, if they're the authors of it.

I'm familiar with both Lem and Malzberg, and wonder why they even wrote sci-fi at all. Novels of Jewish anguish set in 1930's Berlin would have been better suited to them. Anyway, for "serious literature", I prefer the works of Fyodor Dostoyevsky or Henry James, to name but two. For science-fiction, however, I like action, adventure, and a fast-paced plot. But that doesn't mean a sci-fi novel can't have depth, or "something important to say", as my own novel "Hold Back This Day" clearly demonstrates.

[Ixtab]

Probably because Dick had genuine religious tendencies. I do not believe that non-religious people can write great literature, few rule-confirming exceptions nonwithstanding.A religious sense, not a religion as such, is no doubt necessary. H.G. Wells had it. I can detect a bit of it in Stanislaw Lem. Asimov completely lacked it and perhaps that is why I don't enjoy any of his books.

[Ixtab]

For science-fiction, however, I like action, adventure, and a fast-paced plot.I don't. I don't even care much for story. I read science fiction for its ideas. Plotless speculation would almost suffice for me, though I do like a good story. That is why I like Lem so much. Speculative quasi-scientific ideas abound in his works.

[Ahknaton]

Probably because Dick had genuine religious tendencies. I do not believe that non-religious people can write great literature, few rule-confirming exceptions nonwithstanding.
PKD was/is an Episcopalian. You might enjoy this religiously themed piece of his:

How to Build a Universe That Doesn't Fall Apart Two Days Later (http://deoxy.org/pkd_how2build.htm)

[Jake Featherston]

PKD was/is an Episcopalian.

He died in '82 or '83, alas.

[Winston]

Nobody yet has complimented Ix on his intellectual greatness, and let's face it, that's what this thread was about to begin with.

[Arrow Cross]

Isaac Asimov - Jewish
He was mainly a fantasy writer and one of the worst degenerates I've ever read from. His name has no place in the 'High Culture' section, IMO. It has nothing to do with him being Jewish.

[ironweed]

Niven has written some of the dumbest SF I've ever read. I'm thinking particularly of his collaborations with Jerry Pournelle. They read like Tom Clancy in outer space. Entertaining if I'm in the right mood, sure, but not exactly my idea of greatness.

Lem is mildly interesting, but if I'm looking for deep messages or really weird plots he can't hold a candle to Harlan Ellison. Or Samuel R. Delany or the all but forgotten R.A. Lafferty.

Asimov is a mixed bag in my view. The first three Foundation novels were excellent, but I admit he wrote a LOT of garbage. The tie-in between the robot books and the Foundation series was downright painful to read.

[il ragno]

This is one of the dumbest, most blockheaded threads yet to appear at the Phora. It figures Ixabert would've started it. It's not even worth the carpentry-work required to fashion a rebuttal of it. Suffice it to say that this is yet another hobby-horse Ant Boy is leaping upon simply for shit-stirring purposes: tomorrow it'll be something else.

PS: that Mental Ward Kendall would feel himself qualified to disparage anyone who writes sf - even the most microencephalic penny-a-word hack - is beyond parody.

Just because Ix is from Mars doesn't qualify him as either an sf historian or a literary critic. As for Nuclear Farts, his idea of quality sf is "The Trouble With Tribbles". Fuck'm both and the hover-cars they rode in on.

[Thomas777]

Orson Scott Card is a good author...I don't appreciate his stuff like I do that of Heinlein or Frank Herbert, but his work is on the same qualitative plane.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Dan Simmons...I don't care for his stuff, but he seems to enjoy a devoted following.

[Petr]

But that doesn't mean a sci-fi novel can't have depth, or "something important to say", as my own novel "Hold Back This Day" clearly demonstrates.
You are either one great deadpan comedian, or then truly lacking any sense of self-irony. :dance2:


Petr

[Thomas777]

Armor by John Steakly is a good read...its a homage to Starship Troopers, but it holds up, IMO.

[Petr]

This is one of the dumbest, most blockheaded threads yet to appear at the Phora.
Raggie always gets hot under his collar when somebody makes untasteful pop-culture judgments - that's the field where he is the arbiter of taste supreme. :whip:


Petr

[ironweed]

This is one of the dumbest, most blockheaded threads yet to appear at the Phora.

I guess you don't spend much time in the Revisionism sub-forum then.


It figures Ixabert would've started it. It's not even worth the carpentry-work required to fashion a rebuttal of it. Suffice it to say that this is yet another hobby-horse Ant Boy is leaping upon simply for shit-stirring purposes: tomorrow it'll be something else.


Oh, I dunno. He's just expressing an opinion on a topic. Nobody has to agree with him. Though how the co-author of trash like Footfall rises to the level of greatness I'd be interested to read. Readable and amusing trash, but trash nonetheless.


PS: that Mental Ward Kendall would feel himself qualified to disparage anyone who writes sf - even the most microencephalic penny-a-word hack - is beyond parody.


I've never read any of his work, to be honest. From his posts here I'm in no big hurry to start, though.

Just because Ix is from Mars doesn't qualify him as either an sf historian or a literary critic. As for Nuclear Farts, his idea of quality sf is "The Trouble With Tribbles". Fuck'm both and the hover-cars they rode in on.

You grumpy today ragno? A thread like this hardly seems to require such a response.

[il ragno]

You grumpy today ragno? A thread like this hardly seems to require such a response

You're right, it isn't. It's Ix. Usually I can take him or leave him, but this new extreme philoSemitic kick he's on just gets up my nose. Particularly since he was posting polls like "are the Irish fully human?" not long ago.

I understand these tactics stimulate discussion, so no harm, no foul, but after you've seen Ix do his Andy Kaufman of the Internet act for a while, it hardly seems worth the effort to compose a reply, even to correct/argue with him.

He's a weirdo who's starved for attention, and that's an annoying combination in anyone.

Raggie always gets hot under his collar when somebody makes untasteful pop-culture judgments - that's the field where he is the arbiter of taste supreme. :whip:

Petr

Tell us again how men rode on the backs of dinosaurs, Petr. Be sure to cite your usual unimpeachable sources: Hoffman, Little Geneva, Freemasonry Watch and answersingenesis.com.

[Petr]

Tell us again how men rode on the backs of dinosaurs, Petr.
Weak, old man. How low can you go, taking a page from Fade's worn-out book of rhetorical tricks? :rolleyes:


Petr

[Felix the Cat]

I agree that Asimov is overrated. I dutifully bought his most famous books as a kid, but really didn't enjoy them at all. I never even finished "Foundation".

[delete]

You're right, it isn't. It's Ix. Usually I can take him or leave him, but this new extreme philoSemitic kick he's on just gets up my nose. Particularly since he was posting polls like "are the Irish fully human?" not long ago.


He is 20 years old, and as I understand he changes opinios like other change underwear. We have to remember that white brains are not fully mature until they are 25.

[Ixtab]

Lem is mildly interesting, but if I'm looking for deep messages or really weird plots he can't hold a candle to Harlan Ellison.Lem is brilliant. Speculative fiction at its best.

Even though he is a Jew, I have a very low opinion of Harlan Ellison as a science fiction writer as well as a human being (a sex pervert who kidnapped a woman in the 1960s, and a few years ago committed assault against another science fiction writer).

Asimov is a mixed bag in my view. The first three Foundation novels were excellent, ...I think they are overrated.

[Steppenwolf]

Jews have superior ingenuity, imagination and verbal intelligence. This trait can be positive if a Jew sets to write a fictional story and negative if a Jew takes it upon himself to design a political or philosophical system.

[MadScienceType]

I never even finished "Foundation".

Ha! I though I was the only one.

Devoted Asimov geek shoves one of the Foundation tomes in my face: "Have you read this? It's become the foundation of my personal and political philosophy!"

Me: "Then I pity your dumb ass, because it was boring and predictable, much like yourself."

They weakly hold up a copy of Atlas Shrugged without saying anything then slink away as I scowl and shake my head.

[Mike]

Wow, all of the greatest contemporary science fiction writers are Jewish. Clearly, it's time for me to Rethink Everything.

Between kane123123's relentless, withering assaults on the enemies of Zion, and Neo-Galtonian's compelling threads (exemplified by this thread and especially "Falsifiers of the Talmud") I've Never Felt So Philosemitic in my life.

[WFHermans]

The media is telling us that the greatest artists in any field are jewish.

Either jews are the greatest artists in each and every field, or jews control the media.

[Helios Panoptes]

Stanislaw Lem is an excellent sci-fi author. My favorite of his is Fiasco. Solaris desperately needs a new translation. My copy is rife with glaring grammatical errors, as if translated by someone barely familiar with English syntax. I think it was translated from French. When I searched for a better one, there weren't any.

One of the greatest contemporary sci-fi authors not mentioned in this thread is the Russian who wrote the book on which Tarkovsky's STALKER is based. I will find the name after I enter this post.

Edit: the authors are Arkady and Boris Strugatsky.

[Trojan]

The media is telling us that the greatest artists in any field are jewish.

Either jews are the greatest artists in each and every field, or jews control the media.

Care to site the story in the main stream media that claimed this?

[Helios Panoptes]

Here is Roadside Picnic: http://www.cca.org/cm/picnic.pdf

It is difficult to find a copy of this work.

[Brechun]

Niven isn't jewish.

And Ringworld was fucking horrible.

[Ahknaton]

You're right, it isn't. It's Ix. Usually I can take him or leave him, but this new extreme philoSemitic kick he's on just gets up my nose. Particularly since he was posting polls like "are the Irish fully human?" not long ago.

I understand these tactics stimulate discussion, so no harm, no foul, but after you've seen Ix do his Andy Kaufman of the Internet act for a while, it hardly seems worth the effort to compose a reply, even to correct/argue with him.

He's a weirdo who's starved for attention, and that's an annoying combination in anyone.
I always take a small grain of Ix's opinions with my helping of salt.

[A Flickering]

Miéville is interesting though not for everybody.

I've heard good things about Dan Simmons, too, whose Ilium is heavily founded in The Iliad, The Tempest and other great works.

[Ixtab]

Niven isn't jewish.One of my 1980s issues of the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction said otherwise.

[WFHermans]

http://www.jd.gosling.btinternet.co.uk/cvgraphics/niven.gif

Larry Niven promoted casual sex and exhibitionism in the only story I ever read of him.

[Ixtab]

He is not my favourite of the three sf writers I listed, but he does have some interesting ideas.

[1-800]

Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow was the greatest science fiction novel of the last fifty years. Malzberg and Niven write escapist trash. Lem is decent.

[Jim West]

The two novels shown below represent some of the best sci-fi (not "literature" btw) to ever come out of the Golden Age of the genre. Both are unforgettable.


http://members.cox.net/sjrohde3/images/books_c/clarke_childhood_bal33.jpg


http://people.uncw.edu/smithms/Ace%20singles/sK-series/K-154.jpg

[Jake Featherston]

The two novels shown below represent some of the best sci-fi (not "literature" btw) to ever come out of the Golden Age of the genre. Both are unforgettable.


http://members.cox.net/sjrohde3/images/books_c/clarke_childhood_bal33.jpg

Wow, Jim West actually got something right; [u]Childhood's End[/i] is indeed a damn fine novel. I read it in 1986, and I still remember it well.

[Autoreduction]

Stanislaw Lem is an excellent sci-fi author. My favorite of his is Fiasco. Solaris desperately needs a new translation. My copy is rife with glaring grammatical errors, as if translated by someone barely familiar with English syntax. I think it was translated from French. When I searched for a better one, there weren't any.

One of the greatest contemporary sci-fi authors not mentioned in this thread is the Russian who wrote the book on which Tarkovsky's STALKER is based. I will find the name after I enter this post.

Edit: the authors are Arkady and Boris Strugatsky.
Seconded. I posses a copy of roadside picnic, translated into swedish, it's very good stuff. And STALKER, is truly genious. As for Asimov he's pretty good, but there's certainhly some bad in there too. he's slightly overrated.

[ivory bill]

Wow, Jim West actually got something right; [u]Childhood's End[/i] is indeed a damn fine novel. I read it in 1986, and I still remember it well.

Agreed.
I still think Clarke meant the Overlords as a metaphor for Jews. Remember that they had the form of Mankinds' collective image of the Devil; horn, tail, wings, and cloven hooves. They were intelligent enough to be used by the greater power to nurture Mankind and help prepare them for transformation and merger into the cosmic spiritual collective. They lacked the qualities themselves to be chosen for that assimilation/exaltation.

[Count Eustace II]

I think Michael Crichton is a very good science fiction writer. Non-jew as well. He might be too "pop" for some, but Adromeda Strain, Jurassic Park, Timeline, Prey, Sphere, and others are great reads.

[Mike Jahn]

Easy answer: Outer Space is a convenient smokescreen setting where the Jews can produce globalist Marxist propaganda without the viewer being aware of it because the setting isn't in the actual real world around you. Star Trek is a prime example of this.

[Opus131]

Another great gentile writer is Jack Vance. What i have noticed with Jews is that they produce a lot of intelligent people, relatively to their small numbers, but true genius is very rare. Take any artistic field you can think of, music, art, literature, and on the very top you'll always find gentiles.

[Tellurocrat]

Poul Anderson
Frederik Pohl
Roger Zelazny


Some of the very best sci-fi wriers, apart from Dick and Heinlein which you mentioned and I love.