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Jake Featherston
02-16-2007, 07:35 AM
I always wanted to date, fall in love with, marry, and have children with a particular sort of woman. You see her on t.v. and in movies all the time (although I accepted the reality she probably wouldn't be as pretty as the media portrays her), and no, she's usually not the woman you're supposed to be attracted to, but rather the supposedly less attractive friend of the woman the media moguls expect one to fnd appealing. She's smart (and almost invariably wears glasses), she has a wide array of abstract intellectual & cultural interests, she has various hobbies & pursuits of a stimulating nature, she likes going to museums, watching PBS documentaries, seeing foreign films, stuff like that. I really, really wanted to meet this woman, and to make her mine. I've always found her atractive, and thought I would enjoy her company as well. The problem is, SHE DOESN'T FUCKING EXIST!!!

Never seeming to meet anyone like this (with the possible exception of a few older women, who were not interested in a guy half their age, except maybe for sex) I eventually sought her via personal ads, in print, on-line, and even those tacky telephone-based systems, but alas, she's not out there either. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'd run ads claiming I wanted a cultured, sophisticated, wordly woman into museums, foreign films, cultural events, and the like, and I'd get plenty of replies to my adds. And I got a lot of dates out of it, and some short-term relationships (and a good deal of fairly casual sex). But I never met a woman who remotely resembled the type I was advertising for. Virtually every woman I ever met, including university-educated, prosperous types (and I wasn't specifically looking for that, although it doesn't seem far-fetched the woman I was looking for might tend to overlap a good deal with that sort), still regarded gossiping about relationships with their gaggle of hen-friends as the single most rewarding activity in their life (much as if she were still in high school), and were quite satisified viewing t.v. soap operas & sit-coms for all her cultural needs.

As an aside, I often suspected many of the women who responded to my ads tended to assume that a guy with high-falutin' tastes must be a guy with money, and that was the real reason they responded to my ads, not because they thought the ads described someone like them. When they discovered I didn't have any, a lot of them would have sex with me once or twice for fun, before moving on to try to find some actually rich guy to sponge off. Oh well. It would have been nice if such a woman existed in the real world. I love my wife, don't get me wrong, but she's a conventional American woman, so just how interesting do you suppose the rest of my life is likely to be? It does seem a trifle unfair, in that I am capable of providing conventional American women with a much higher percentage of their needs than any of them can ever hope to meet of mine, but there doesn't seem to exist any pool of unconventional American women in which to dip. When you come right down to it, faggots are kind of lucky, because men are so much more interesting than women. They're having an M.C. Escher exposition at the San Jose Museum of Modern Art, but do you think I can get my wife to go to that? Of course not. "M.C. who?" I'll have to go with some dude, or alone.

Why aren't there any women who are interested interesting things?

Zubenelgenubi
02-16-2007, 07:46 AM
There are women who are interested in these things. Quite a few, in fact. I like museums, PBS, the whole lot and many of the other women I associate with are of the same mind.

BTW, you go to modern art museums to see Escher? He's so overrated.

Starr
02-16-2007, 08:05 AM
When you come right down to it, faggots are kind of lucky, because men are so much more interesting than women.

Probably not so. Their interests are probably closer to the typical woman, as you describe, than the kind of male you describe.

You did correctly describe the typical female. Their interests are relatively mindless and revolve around other people, gossip and relationships. But while there are more males than females whose interests are more intellectual, the typical male also does not seem to be very interesting. For them, it is sports, beer, and sex.
I sort of blame modern society and especially popular culture for sort of feeding into the more negative qualities that exist in either sex and helping to dumb them down even further.

Micaelis
02-16-2007, 08:18 AM
Probably not so. Their interests are probably closer to the typical woman, as you describe, than the kind of male you describe.

You did correctly describe the typical female. Their interests are relatively mindless and revolve around other people, gossip and relationships. But while there are more males than females whose interests are more intellectual, the typical male also does not seem to be very interesting. For them, it is sports, beer, and sex.
I sort of blame modern society and especially popular culture for sort of feeding into the more negative qualities that exist in either sex and helping to dumb them down even further.

Of course, if we are nothing more than slightly-evolved apes, why hold us to any higher standard of existence than gossip, beer and sex?

Starr
02-16-2007, 08:23 AM
Eat, sleep, consume, obey.

Zubenelgenubi
02-16-2007, 08:25 AM
But while there are more males than females whose interests are more intellectual...

Evidence, please?

Starr
02-16-2007, 08:33 AM
Evidence, please?


the only evidence I suppose I have is personal experience in knowing people. And also the much higher percentage of males in certain higher end careers and fields.

Zubenelgenubi
02-16-2007, 08:38 AM
And also the much higher percentage of males in certain higher end careers and fields.

Can you show some statistics? Which "certain higher end fields" are you referring to?

In any case, the predominance of men in "intellectual" positions is changing. There are more women than men in college these days, for example, and the percentage of women in grad programs is growing as well.

Micaelis
02-16-2007, 08:42 AM
the only evidence I suppose I have is personal experience in knowing people. And also the much higher percentage of males in certain higher end careers and fields.

I have a feeling you're dealing with a feminist. Proceed with caution. :p

Ahknaton
02-16-2007, 08:46 AM
BTW, you go to modern art museums to see Escher? He's so overrated.
LOL! There's always a woman around waiting for a chance to cut you down to size. Classic.

Dodge Viper
02-16-2007, 08:47 AM
The nature and qualities of the female shall rise only as men take the higher road towards higher tastes and refined behaviour. It follows in that order. It appears selectively more men have such tastes and interest you admire because men in general are the ones who naturally pursue these things first, bringing a trend into society for women to follow and pursue also.

Ahknaton
02-16-2007, 08:55 AM
The thing is, these women do exist, but most guys think that all the other guys are into the bimbos, so they'll have no problem finding one of these unjustly neglected godesses and having them all to themselves. Unfortunately this is delusion. In reality, women like this are more precious than gold, most guys do realise this (media stereotypes notwithstanding), and the competition for them is intense. I've met loads of women like this but they're almost always taken by the time I show up.

Hakluyt
02-16-2007, 08:55 AM
The sort of woman you describe is now incredibly common because it's become a fashion meme perpetuated by internet culture. This is a generational development though, so you may not have noticed. Dime/dozen really, and lately I've preferred if the women I meet have no interest in music and art whatsoever - it takes integrity to secede from the whole domain of obligatory cultural interest. I find myself enjoying some male/female duality in this sphere anyway, which is fast becoming a novelty. Give me a woman who's never heard of Degas, Sartre or Stereolab!

Starr
02-16-2007, 08:58 AM
[QUOTE=leopoldbloom]Can you show some statistics? Which "certain higher end fields" are you referring to?

Science, law, medicine, politics,etc. These fields have all been open to women for a long time now and males are still way over represented.

In any case, the predominance of men in "intellectual" positions is changing. There are more women than men in college these days, for example, and the percentage of women in grad programs is growing as well.

This is very good. I argue all of the time on these forums that there is more to many women than marriage, babies, and housework. But the differences that do exist between males and females, how they think, behave, where their interests lie will continue to show themselves in certain ways.

Zubenelgenubi
02-16-2007, 09:00 AM
LOL! There's always a woman around waiting for a chance to cut you down to size. Classic.

Well, gee, what would you do in my situation? Some mook says no woman can appreciate art or culture. And this guy's example of high culture is that dude who makes those pictures of hands drawing each other and fish turning into birds which every college kid has on their dormroom wall. Wouldn't you be a little insulted? :p

Ahknaton
02-16-2007, 09:07 AM
Virtually every woman I ever met, including university-educated, prosperous types (and I wasn't specifically looking for that, although it doesn't seem far-fetched the woman I was looking for might tend to overlap a good deal with that sort), still regarded gossiping about relationships with their gaggle of hen-friends as the single most rewarding activity in their life (much as if she were still in high school), and were quite satisified viewing t.v. soap operas & sit-coms for all her cultural needs.
I feel your pain brother. A few weeks ago I was at a small "party" with friends (including some single educated/professional type women) and I was dismayed at the low level of the conversation. One of them (who is admittedly a bit rough around the edges) started gossiping about her ex-boyfriend in mixed company. I would have thought this was an obvious social no-no, but it she didn't seem to think that she was doing anything wrong. The ex-boyfriend (who was not present) was a friend of several of the males at the party, and not poorly regarded either, but apparently they had a rough breakup. She was laying into him something shocking, divulging all sorts of stuff that should have stayed between them (including mocking the size of his johnson) and none of the other females or males (except for me) had a problem with it. Quite a few guys will join in and stab another male in the back in this kind of situation, it's disgusting.

In some alternate universe where I'm Rowdy Roddy Piper I would have whipped out my 6 iron and turkey-slapped her into submission in a heroic act on behalf of men everywhere, but as it was I just made a few disapproving noises and politely excused myself after fending off the predictable "ooOOOOoo! Obviously a touchy issue for you.. tee hee hee" jibes. It was getting late anyway. Later I confronted a few of my mates about their craven, pussilanimous attitude, and they offered up the usual lame excuses of "he was a bastard to her anyway, so he had it coming". People suck.

Micaelis
02-16-2007, 09:07 AM
Give me a woman who's never heard of Degas, Sartre or Stereolab!

I don't mind intellectualism in a woman insofar as it does not lead to her completete masculinisation and rejection of femininity. Ideally, she'd concern herself with the art of cooking, family dynamics and aesthetics (cosmetics, fashion, decoration, etc).

Starr
02-16-2007, 09:08 AM
I have a feeling you're dealing with a feminist. Proceed with caution. :p


Some people call me a feminist, so no worries.:p

I will add to the conversation that men seem a lot of times to also look for women who are not exactly on their level. And I mean lesser intellectually. I recall one of the males, here, even saying something like this in the shoutbox about a week ago.:p

Ahknaton
02-16-2007, 09:12 AM
Well, gee, what would you do in my situation? Some mook says no woman can appreciate art or culture. And this guy's example of high culture is that dude who makes those pictures of hands drawing each other and fish turning into birds which every college kid has on their dormroom wall. Wouldn't you be a little insulted? :p
Of course (in fact, I saw it coming). It was funny nonetheless. I've liked Escher since I was about 12 years old. Whether he's "high culture" can be debated, but don't you think it's a little off to never have even heard of him?

Zubenelgenubi
02-16-2007, 09:17 AM
Science, law, medicine, politics,etc. These fields have all been open to women for a long time now and males are still way over represented.

This is very good. I argue all of the time on these forums that there is more to many women than marriage, babies, and housework. But the differences that do exist between males and females, how they think, behave, where their interests lie will continue to show themselves in certain ways.

For some more accurate statistics, according to data from the NSF from 2001 (http://www7.nationalacademies.org/cwse/S_E_stats.pdf)

-women got 202, 583 bachelors degrees in science & engineering, whereas men have consistently fluctuated around 200,000 since 1966
-women made up 41% of science & engineering grad students, including 74% of psychology, 54% of biological science, 52% of social sciences, and 30-40 % of most other scientific fields
-women received 37% of science and engineering PhDs and 57% of non science and engineering PhDs

And the percentages continue to increase.

It's nice of you to argue that there is more to women than babies, marriage and housework, but I can't figure out why that's even an issue in this day and age. Just ask a woman, for crying out loud. Obviously there must be more to women than that, otherwise why would we ever do anything else?

Micaelis
02-16-2007, 09:20 AM
I will add to the conversation that men seem a lot of times to also look for women who are not exactly on their level. And I mean lesser intellectually. I recall one of the males, here, even saying something like this in the shoutbox about a week ago.

I would be in heaven if I met a female who was my "intellectual" equal. We could indulge in Derrida, go to mass, browse through classical works of art, and do, em, other stimulating activities together ... :naughty:

No, seriously, I recently met a Spanish-American woman, a Christian, who is studying to be a journalist at my uni. I'm very excited about it.

Zubenelgenubi
02-16-2007, 09:21 AM
Of course (in fact, I saw it coming). It was funny nonetheless. I've liked Escher since I was about 12 years old. Whether he's "high culture" can be debated, but don't you think it's a little off to never have even heard of him?

Certainly. As far as I'm concerned, you would have had to have been raised in a cave. But there are plenty of folks, both men and women, who, as far as I'm concerned, must have been raised in caves.

Starr
02-16-2007, 09:25 AM
Certainly. As far as I'm concerned, you would have had to have been raised in a cave. But there are plenty of folks, both men and women, who, as far as I'm concerned, must have been raised in caves.


those folks who were raised in a cave could definitely tell you the names of all of the american idol winners, however.:whip:

Helios Panoptes
02-16-2007, 09:32 AM
For some more accurate statistics, according to data from the NSF from 2001 (http://www7.nationalacademies.org/cwse/S_E_stats.pdf)

-women got 202, 583 bachelors degrees in science & engineering, whereas men have consistently fluctuated around 200,000 since 1966
-women made up 41% of science & engineering grad students, including 74% of psychology, 54% of biological science, 52% of social sciences, and 30-40 % of most other scientific fields
-women received 37% of science and engineering PhDs and 57% of non science and engineering PhDs

And the percentages continue to increase.

It's nice of you to argue that there is more to women than babies, marriage and housework, but I can't figure out why that's even an issue in this day and age. Just ask a woman, for crying out loud. Obviously there must be more to women than that, otherwise why would we ever do anything else?

What percentages do women comprise of doctorates in the following fields: mathematics, physics, economics, engineering?

calvin
02-16-2007, 11:19 AM
"BTW, you go to modern art museums to see Escher? He's so overrated"

I find statements like this deeply annoying. The message seems to be, I know exactly who Escher is, but have long ago transcended any interest in him and feel that a continued fascination with Escher is a sign of arrested intellectual development. The concluding assertion “He’s so overrated” seems to reduce artistic value to the status of fashion, “Darling, Escher is sooo last season!”. The only way anyone is going to decide how highly rated any artist or thinker is, is to become familiar with their work; that would very probably entail going to see examples of it in a museum.

Ahknaton
02-16-2007, 11:54 AM
"BTW, you go to modern art museums to see Escher? He's so overrated"

I find statements like this deeply annoying. The message seems to be, I know exactly who Escher is, but have long ago transcended any interest in him and feel that a continued fascination with Escher is a sign of arrested intellectual development. The concluding assertion “He’s so overrated” seems to reduce artistic value to the status of fashion, “Darling, Escher is sooo last season!”. The only way anyone is going to decide how highly rated any artist or thinker is, is to become familiar with their work; that would very probably entail going to see examples of it in a museum.
I think we have just encountered the evil twin sister of the uncultured woman: the cultured woman. The way to deal with these little social displays of "I'm so very much more cultured than thou" is to re-juggle the in-group/out-group so as to include you both and exclude those further down the ladder than either of you (such as those cultural philistines who "must have been raised in caves" because they have never even heard of the artist/movie/writer in question). See posts #15, #19 and #22 for an example of this. Well played, if I do say so myself :D

Since we're being misogynistic, it's a typically female trait to turn anything related to "high culture" into their same tired little game of establishing social cliques and hierarchies, like a bunch of high-school girls sorting out their pecking order of who sits with who in the lunchroom.

*puts on flameproof suit*

Ahmadinebobina
02-16-2007, 12:25 PM
Men do not tend to be interested in my cultural interests.

delete
02-16-2007, 01:16 PM
My sister was/is a carer woman, like to read and travel, but most men was intimidated by her or were just looking for sex. She was depressed that she could not find the man she wanted, as everything else seemed to work perfect.

It woked out in the end, because the modern equivalent of the shining knight, an army ranger officer saved the day.

I think that a lot of women want men they can admire and look up to in some way, and for the smart women, this often means that the man needs to know or do something different than the woman. My sister found it in this army officer, and I have noticed this trend in other women I have met in uni. I can talk all nigth about some intellectual bullshit without any apparent interest, but if I mention that I like to do carpentry in the summer, a lot of them have some small job where they live...

Geist
02-16-2007, 01:24 PM
These women exist, but they are almost always taken. Often by men with no cultural interests themselves. Its an odd circle, but over time you just need to accept that fact and either get out of a pointless race or embrace someone you may not be entirely suited to.

For all the abuse college-educated people get on here I have never found such women outside of college, and the one I did turned out to be in my class though we did not realise it at the time.

Billy Score
02-16-2007, 03:25 PM
Were i to put out a personal add i'd simply say :

Stupid, submissive woman with low self esteem. 17-25, no hogs.

Women aren't for companionship, featherston.they are for breeding. men are for companionship.

Hakluyt
02-16-2007, 03:37 PM
I don't mind intellectualism in a woman insofar as it does not lead to her completete masculinisation and rejection of femininity. Ideally, she'd concern herself with the art of cooking, family dynamics and aesthetics (cosmetics, fashion, decoration, etc).
I think the only way I could accomodate such a woman is if she did reject femininity, and thus was more like a male companion. Femininity and intellectualism do not mix well.

The last thing a self-proclaimed 'cultured woman' wants to do is be in a relationship with a legitimately cultured man. It negates her leverage and the thrill of violating the pathos of distance.

Heavens to Betsy
02-16-2007, 03:41 PM
She's smart (and almost invariably wears glasses), she has a wide array of abstract intellectual & cultural interests, she has various hobbies & pursuits of a stimulating nature, she likes going to museums, watching PBS documentaries, seeing foreign films, stuff like that. I really, really wanted to meet this woman, and to make her mine. I've always found her atractive, and thought I would enjoy her company as well. The problem is, SHE DOESN'T FUCKING EXIST!!!


Boo-freakin'-hoo

Plenty of women I know fit this description (I'd like to think myself included, at any rate I wear glasses) they are, for the most part taken.
In any case the majority of men aren't interested in this sort of women for this reason many women cover up their intelligence with a candy-floss veneer of nonsense.

that guy
02-16-2007, 03:45 PM
But while there are more males than females whose interests are more intellectual...
Evidence, please?

http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=11

http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=119

http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=92

http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10

http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=16

http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=91

http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=93

And of course:

http://www.thephora.net/forum/index.php

shanemac
02-16-2007, 03:54 PM
I'm looking for a woman who is as much into nigger hatin' and jew baitin' as I am.

Where can I find such a Goddess? :confused:

J Van Der Meyde
02-16-2007, 03:56 PM
I'm looking for a woman who is as much into nigger hatin' and jew baitin' as I am.

Where can I find such a Goddess? :confused:

Go check out the picture thread at Stormfront.

There are some fine Aryan beauties you can take your pick from :rofl:

shanemac
02-16-2007, 04:11 PM
I wrote my personals ad in the Stormfront white dating section:

I'm looking for a white lady who shares my dream of a nigger and jew free world. She should be under 50, taller than she is wide, with at least 50% of her own natural teeth.

My hobbies: shooting pigs, attending NSM rallies and talking about Hitler.

Didn't get any responses. :confused:

Dr. Gutberlet
02-16-2007, 04:51 PM
This thread sounds like an emo anthem in the making. american women are shallow(they cannot help what the McDonald's/MTV "culture"[lack of culture] has done to them), and thus not worth pursuing. Get yourself a nice Ukrainian or Russian bride.

WFHermans
02-16-2007, 04:52 PM
Elisha Strom is available again.

Winston
02-16-2007, 04:56 PM
I've always been attracted to 'nerdy' women, but they tend to be lefties.

Boleslaw
02-16-2007, 04:59 PM
Overall I have an indifferent attitude towards relationships with the fair gender.

Good quality women do exist, I certainly have met a few of them.

However, as mentioned before, they're often already taken and competition for them is intense. Even if you do manage to secure one, it's only for a short period of time(this happened to me once. Within 3 months she dumped me and went back to her old boyfriend, who interestingly enough ended up dumping her again several weeks later - ahh love!!!).

However I do have an interesting story that could shed some light on this. There was one girl at my workplace who was of exceptional good looks, and no surprise all the guys were crazy for her - and I was no exception.

However, basesd on past experiences, I almost knew for certain that I wasnt going to get her; so I developed a cynical and fatalistic attitude towards the whole affair. I certainly talked to her quite a bit, but not on any regular basis. For example, I often didnt bother trying to chat with her when she was with other guys, unless it was I knew them.

Interestingly enough, out of all the guys who flirted with her, only one actually got her phone number - me!!! :D

She already has a boyfriend, but nevertheless this is still an accomplishment of sorts. Perhaps others here have had similar experiences.

Winston
02-16-2007, 05:02 PM
Interestingly enough, out of all the guys who flirted with her, only one actually got her phone number - me!!! :D

She already has a boyfriend, but nevertheless this is still an accomplishment of sorts. Perhaps others here have had similar experiences.

I wouldn't want a women who could possibly give out her number to another guy while I am officially her boyfriend.

Geist
02-16-2007, 05:02 PM
Its the oldest tactic in the world Perun.

Thomas777
02-16-2007, 05:02 PM
I think that one of the nice things about women is that they tend NOT to be troubled by pressing philisophical and theoretical matters.

It would sort of turn me off if I took out a pretty girl for some light and breezy company and she started talking to me about the state of the West, cultural decrepitude, or posing questions to me about the value of death, or the merits of racial nationalism.

Women are nice because they allow us to escape from these things now and again.

Boleslaw
02-16-2007, 05:05 PM
Anyways, here's a nice poem that relates to this topic, and pretty much sums up my attitude in many ways. LOL! :D

Don't Wed
Taras Shevchenko

Don't wed a wealthy woman, friend,
She'll drive you from the house.
Don't wed a poor one either, friend,
Dull care will be your spouse.
Get hitched to carefree Cossack life
And share a Cossack fate:
If it be rags, let it be rags --
What comes, that's what you take.
Then you'll have nobody to nag
Or try to cheer you up,
To fuss and fret and question you
What ails you and what's up.
When two misfortune share, they say,
It's easier to weep.
Not so: it's easier to cry
When no-one's there to see.

Fitz
02-16-2007, 05:21 PM
I love my wife, don't get me wrong, but she's a conventional American woman, so just how interesting do you suppose the rest of my life is likely to be? It does seem a trifle unfair, in that I am capable of providing conventional American women with a much higher percentage of their needs than any of them can ever hope to meet of mine, but there doesn't seem to exist any pool of unconventional American women in which to dip.
..... They're having an M.C. Escher exposition at the San Jose Museum of Modern Art, but do you think I can get my wife to go to that? Of course not. "M.C. who?" I'll have to go with some dude, or alone.


Didn't anybody ever tell you that marriage is the end of hope? :rofl:

But seriously, if your wife is loving, loyal, of good moral character, steady in her emotions, able to work with you in solving problems (or able to take direction instead), and a good mother to your children (if you have any) then you should let the museums burn because you have something more precious than any of them contain.

If not, then you have problems like most all married people. Good luck and onward through the fog.

barbarroja
02-16-2007, 05:28 PM
you must look for a very femenin girl... a romantic type who will go wherever yo go with you.

the intellectual types are disgusting, they are stupids, talk like hen, are leftists, and of course know and read a lot about one specific theme to be intellectual.

I met always the nerdy type in the University, and see they are mutilated in their femenin soul. They are very a-sexual, want to be treated like "men" (good bye passion) and like a lot to debate about everything to show their intelligence.

A good girl always will be with you, you can travel to Zimbabwe and will be your mate. An intellectual type usually go to intellectual sites for a matter of "I must be there" (to be part of the "intelligentzia" circle), but not for you. And always will prefer the comfort and her career and study than you -in case you endanger her habitat being a nazi, travelling to a distant place, wanting a lot of kids.

But I don´t know, perhaps is a thing of my country and the northamericans are less nerds. In fact in my parents time the mode was be a boheme and read at least a book per month, and was normal to meet guys who read one thousand books in a café or bar. But know cable-TV and hollywood sitcoms are the new mode.

Billy Score
02-16-2007, 05:33 PM
"smart" women are unbearable. That is why i'd prefer a stupid, emotionalist woman, because she would be easier to mold and would know her place more. smart women are all anti traditionalist, cultural marxist feminists and all overbearing.

Dr. Gutberlet
02-16-2007, 05:43 PM
you must look for a very femenin girl... a romantic type who will go wherever yo go with you.

the intellectual types are disgusting, they are stupids, talk like hen, are leftists, and of course know and read a lot about one specific theme to be intellectual.

I met always the nerdy type in the University, and see they are mutilated in their femenin soul. They are very a-sexual, want to be treated like "men" (good bye passion) and like a lot to debate about everything to show their intelligence.

A good girl always will be with you, you can travel to Zimbabwe and will be your mate. An intellectual type usually go to intellectual sites for a matter of "I must be there" (to be part of the "intelligentzia" circle), but not for you. And always will prefer the comfort and her career and study than you -in case you endanger her habitat being a nazi, travelling to a distant place, wanting a lot of kids.

But I don´t know, perhaps is a thing of my country and the northamericans are less nerds. In fact in my parents time the mode was be a boheme and read at least a book per month, and was normal to meet guys who read one thousand books in a café or bar. But know cable-TV and hollywood sitcoms are the new mode.

I would love to meet a nice Argentinian woman. Preferably one like Valeria Mazza:whip:

http://sauna2.chat.ru/valeria_mazza_18.jpg

Leshrac
02-16-2007, 05:49 PM
Hint: These sort of womens generally don't like to be bothered... "Hey what's up, have a drink" ? - Bad move.

Indifference. Don't mind them, just observe. After a while you can start noticing those who throw and eye from time to time to see what you're doing.

Then *TING* you know it can be possible. Build the relationship slowly.

Start with signs when you know she recognize you, move to "hello" then some time after "Hey long time no see" (even if you didn't see her for only 3 days).

Then when she's not frightened anymore and somehows know how you behave, what you read, how you speak, you can go in to invite her.

NOT FOR A DRINK. For a conference, or a visit to cultural place X, etc ;)

It's only a matter of hunter/hunted and who's got the better tactic. Every type of bait requires a different tactic :)

Zubenelgenubi
02-16-2007, 06:55 PM
What percentages do women comprise of doctorates in the following fields: mathematics, physics, economics, engineering?

I couldn't find something had every percentage by field, but the thing I originally linked to gave 30% of physical sciences, 35% of math, 28% of computer science and 20% of engineering, and economics isn't on there.

I think it's definitely true that women gravitate towards some careers more than others, and I think that's fine. The original question, tho, was whether fewer women were interested in intellectual pursuits.

Starr
02-16-2007, 06:57 PM
"smart" women are unbearable. That is why i'd prefer a stupid, emotionalist woman, because she would be easier to mold and would know her place more.


:rofl:

this is the comment I was referring to earlier in the this thread that someone had made in the shoutbox. I don't remember who said it, but I think it was someone other than you. Why would you want to mold her into someone who merely reflects your opinions? That is sort of like marrying yourself. I would think this would be very boring? There is something in this need that seems a tad insecure. It is strange to me that guys who are not dumb(which you clearly are not)would want a woman who is so inferior to you in intelligence. First off, you talk about breeding earlier in the thread. I am sure you believe intelligence is inherited, correct?

And let the record show that Maz believes that very submissive women who obey their husband's every command and "know their place" tend to be on the stupid side. A lot of the males who I run across who want a little mouse woman, will say things that suggest they believe it takes a smarter woman to reject certain feminist ideas, know her place and act accordingly. i personally don't think this attitude in a woman has a lot to do with intelligence or lack of intelligence, but more her personality type and possibly religious or other beliefs that "molded" her earlier in life.

Dr. Gutberlet
02-16-2007, 07:02 PM
Most "intelligent" women tend to be vile secular humanist liberal trash. This type also tends to be unfit fpr motherhood and childrearing, as they are too consumed with themselves to truly do a proper job with a child. Perhaps this why we abhor them so.

Zubenelgenubi
02-16-2007, 07:03 PM
I find statements like this deeply annoying. The message seems to be, I know exactly who Escher is, but have long ago transcended any interest in him and feel that a continued fascination with Escher is a sign of arrested intellectual development. The concluding assertion “He’s so overrated” seems to reduce artistic value to the status of fashion, “Darling, Escher is sooo last season!”. The only way anyone is going to decide how highly rated any artist or thinker is, is to become familiar with their work; that would very probably entail going to see examples of it in a museum.

It's not that Escher is "so-last-season", it's that he's a creator of visual curiosities and nothing more. His work is cool to look at but there's nothing behind it. Also, you don't need to go to a museum to be familiar with Escher. His posters are everywhere. They sell Escher calendars in curiosity shops. You can read "Godel, Escher, Bach."

I'm sorry if my Escher comment came off as snotty, but the OP was pretty goddamn insulting, and I haven't seen any of you dudes do anything but get his back.

Starr
02-16-2007, 07:08 PM
I'm sorry if my Escher comment came off as snotty, but the OP was pretty goddamn insulting, and I haven't seen any of you dudes do anything but get his back.


That was actually very tame, compared to other things that get thrown around by some......

Mike
02-16-2007, 07:19 PM
Very well put! I was going to write something like this after finishing reading the thread, but you have saved me the trouble.

Didn't anybody ever tell you that marriage is the end of hope? :rofl:

But seriously, if your wife is loving, loyal, of good moral character, steady in her emotions, able to work with you in solving problems (or able to take direction instead), and a good mother to your children (if you have any) then you should let the museums burn because you have something more precious than any of them contain.

If not, then you have problems like most all married people. Good luck and onward through the fog.

Sulla the Dictator
02-16-2007, 07:37 PM
Probably not so. Their interests are probably closer to the typical woman, as you describe, than the kind of male you describe.


That doesn't seem true at all, in the context of what Kevin was talking about. Probably 50% of the homosexuals I've met have been avid fans of art, theater, and museums. I would say that they're far more interested in these things than the average woman.

Hippias
02-16-2007, 08:05 PM
For some more accurate statistics, according to data from the NSF from 2001 (http://www7.nationalacademies.org/cwse/S_E_stats.pdf)

-women got 202, 583 bachelors degrees in science & engineering, whereas men have consistently fluctuated around 200,000 since 1966
-women made up 41% of science & engineering grad students, including 74% of psychology, 54% of biological science, 52% of social sciences, and 30-40 % of most other scientific fields
-women received 37% of science and engineering PhDs and 57% of non science and engineering PhDs

And the percentages continue to increase.

The percentage of women making original contributions to mathematics, engineering and the natural sciences is remarkably small. For example, less than 1% of the Nobel Prizes in physics and chemistry have been awarded to women. No woman has ever received a Turing Award, no woman has ever received the Schock Prize in logic or mathematics and no woman has ever received a Fields Medal. In addition, high-tech gadgets like ipods, DVDs, high definition tv sets, cellular phones and the like are exclusively male innovations, as are engineering innovations in robotics, aerospace and automotive technology. It's one thing to copy down, memorize and recite information to get a bachelors or even an M.S. degree. It's quite another thing to innovate and create something new. That requires conceptual thought.

Winston
02-16-2007, 08:10 PM
It's one thing to copy down, memorize and recite information to get a bachelors or even an M.S. degree. It's quite another thing to innovate and create something new. That requires conceptual thought.

This is true. And such ability is no more evenly distributed between the sexes than it is between the races.

Hakluyt
02-16-2007, 08:38 PM
You can read "Godel, Escher, Bach."
But have you actually read it? You might be less inclined to say "there's nothing behind" his work - a very ignorant statement. Superficial ubiquity doesn't suggest lack of content; posters of Einstein are also scattered about everywhere.

delete
02-16-2007, 09:00 PM
But have you actually read it? You might be less inclined to say "there's nothing behind" his work - a very ignorant statement. Superficial ubiquity doesn't suggest lack of content; posters of Einstein are also scattered about everywhere.

I have actually read that book, and I don't remember that it was about the artistic qualities of either Escher nor Bach. IIRC the gist of the book is about how the whole is more than the sum of it's parts, and this is in many ways trivial.

Jimbo Gomez
02-16-2007, 09:30 PM
Were i to put out a personal add i'd simply say :

Stupid, submissive woman with low self esteem. 17-25, no hogs.

Women aren't for companionship, featherston.they are for breeding. men are for companionship.

Case closed, mazdak wins the debate.

Ahmadinebobina
02-16-2007, 09:48 PM
These women exist, but they are almost always taken. Often by men with no cultural interests themselves.

Eventually you will write novels about this.

Nearly every man I have known with cultural interests akin to mine had many neuroses and was rather too strange to put up with for a long time.
It is annoying though when one's partner is not interested particularly in most of your things...and I don't think most women like to 'teach' men. You learn to appreciate other traits.

Zubenelgenubi
02-16-2007, 10:01 PM
The percentage of women making original contributions to mathematics, engineering and the natural sciences is remarkably small. For example, less than 1% of the Nobel Prizes in physics and chemistry have been awarded to women. No woman has ever received a Turing Award, no woman has ever received the Schock Prize in logic or mathematics and no woman has ever received a Fields Medal. In addition, high-tech gadgets like ipods, DVDs, high definition tv sets, cellular phones and the like are exclusively male innovations, as are engineering innovations in robotics, aerospace and automotive technology. It's one thing to copy down, memorize and recite information to get a bachelors or even an M.S. degree. It's quite another thing to innovate and create something new. That requires conceptual thought.

I think that as the women who are currently becoming more numerous in science & engineering programs come into their own in their professions we will see more of them contributing to technological innovations and garnering prizes. But even thus far there are certainly examples of women who have contributed to science, for example Rosalind Franklin, without whose research Crick and Watson would not have completed their model of DNA (and who got no credit, btw), as well as the numerous contributions of women towards the field of astronomy (something I know about, as I studied astronomy in college) such as Henrietta Leavitt's discovery of the relation between period and luminosity of Cepheid variables which is important in judging the distance to galaxies, Annie Jump Cannon's ordering of the stars into stellar categories, and Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin's relation of the spectral classes to their temperatures.

Zubenelgenubi
02-16-2007, 10:08 PM
But have you actually read it? You might be less inclined to say "there's nothing behind" his work - a very ignorant statement. Superficial ubiquity doesn't suggest lack of content; posters of Einstein are also scattered about everywhere.

No, I haven't read it yet, unfortunately. A friend of mine- a mathematician and fellow Bachophile- read it and said it was crap (the ideas, not the writing), but I don't know that I necessarily trust his judgement.

Also, I wasn't trying to say that ubiquity means it's bad- there are some very great works of art that you see posters of everywhere. I was just saying you don't need to be a connoisseur of high culture or go to art museums all the time to be familiar with Escher.

Zubenelgenubi
02-16-2007, 10:12 PM
http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=11

http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=119

http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=92

http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10

http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=16

http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=91

http://www.thephora.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=93

And of course:

http://www.thephora.net/forum/index.php


So you are saying that the Phora is an accurate representation of the total population of people interested in intellectual pursuits? Now that's chutzpah! ;)

delete
02-16-2007, 10:33 PM
No, I haven't read it yet, unfortunately. A friend of mine- a mathematician and fellow Bachophile- read it and said it was crap (the ideas, not the writing), but I don't know that I necessarily trust his judgement.

Also, I wasn't trying to say that ubiquity means it's bad- there are some very great works of art that you see posters of everywhere. I was just saying you don't need to be a connoisseur of high culture or go to art museums all the time to be familiar with Escher.

You did not say that. You said this.

It's not that Escher is "so-last-season", it's that he's a creator of visual curiosities and nothing more. His work is cool to look at but there's nothing behind it. Also, you don't need to go to a museum to be familiar with Escher. His posters are everywhere. They sell Escher calendars in curiosity shops. You can read "Godel, Escher, Bach

They sell Bach at gas stations here in Norway, but that does not mean his music is crap.

You obviously no nothing about mathematics, and why a lot of the mathematicians are facinated by Escher.
.

Billy Score
02-16-2007, 10:35 PM
Case closed, mazdak wins the debate.
Thank you, Stan. An arch of triumph should be erected to comemorate this day.

delete
02-16-2007, 10:37 PM
Thank you, Stan.

So if you die, you will leave the children with the stupid submissive mother?

What if you get a stupid submissive son?

Ahknaton
02-16-2007, 10:39 PM
I'm sorry if my Escher comment came off as snotty, but the OP was pretty goddamn insulting, and I haven't seen any of you dudes do anything but get his back.
What's this? A tacit invitation for one or more of the males to break ranks and win the approval of the cultured female!

Sorry for the 20c pop-psychology analysis leopoldbloom but this thread is begging for it.

Zubenelgenubi
02-16-2007, 10:41 PM
You did not say that. You said this.

They sell Bach at gas stations here in Norway, but that does not mean his music is crap.

You obviously no nothing about mathematics, and why a lot of the mathematicians are facinated by Escher.
.

I said Escher was overrated. I also said that you don't need to go to art museums to know about Escher. These were two separate points. And your comment about Bach exactly echos what I said. Good job. Try reading my posts next time.

Billy Score
02-16-2007, 10:42 PM
So if you die, you will leave the children with the stupid submissive mother?

What if you get a stupid submissive son?
A child will not look up to a stupid submissive woman. He will instead look after his father and emulate his father's habits. If i was to be a good father, or at least, be a strong role model (which i certainly hope that i can become), my work would be done. If my son was a submissive, sheepish twit i'd teach him discipline. Not all men are born great, but just because one is born a weakling doesn't mean one must remain a weakling for his whole life. As for the mother, if she were an "INDEPENDENT" woman she'd be a terrible role model, feminizing the male children and corrupting them with modernist thinking.

Ahknaton
02-16-2007, 10:47 PM
Were i to put out a personal add i'd simply say :

Stupid, submissive woman with low self esteem. 17-25, no hogs.

Women aren't for companionship, featherston.they are for breeding. men are for companionship.
All women are submissive to an alpha male Mazdak. The smart ones with "attitude" are simply looking for a male they deem "worthy" of submitting to. Refusing to display submissive behaviours around a male is just rejection of him as not being an alpha male (which doesn't mean he doesn't have a chance with her of course, since there aren't enough alpha males to go around).

Winston
02-16-2007, 10:52 PM
A child will not look up to a stupid submissive woman. He will instead look after his father and emulate his father's habits. If i was to be a good father, or at least, be a strong role model (which i certainly hope that i can become), my work would be done. If my son was a submissive, sheepish twit i'd teach him discipline. Not all men are born great, but just because one is born a weakling doesn't mean one must remain a weakling for his whole life. As for the mother, if she were an "INDEPENDENT" woman she'd be a terrible role model, feminizing the male children and corrupting them with modernist thinking.


Might the 'independent' woman not have some worthy genes to pass onto your children, especially a son? I get most of my weaker character traits from my mother's contribution to my genetics.

Billy Score
02-16-2007, 10:55 PM
Might the 'independent' woman not have some worthy genes to pass onto your children, especially a son? I get most of my weaker character traits from my mother's contribution to my genetics.
no. One ancient greek said it aptly, women are the dirt in which the man plants his seed. women have no input. I'd rather have a child that i can teach to be a man than one that will be lost because his mother is an independent minded whore who divorces me after a year and takes the kid with her.

Ahknaton
02-16-2007, 10:57 PM
no. One ancient greek said it aptly, women are the dirt in which the man plants his seed. women have no input.
That's total BS.

"Women hold up half the heavens" - Mao Tse Tung.

Micaelis
02-16-2007, 10:57 PM
no. One ancient greek said it aptly, women are the dirt in which the man plants his seed. women have no input. I'd rather have a child that i can teach to be a man than one that will be lost because his mother is an independent minded whore who divorces me after a year and takes the kid with her.

This is hilarious! Rep for Mazdak!

Billy Score
02-16-2007, 10:58 PM
That's total BS.

"Women hold up half the heavens" - Mao Tse Tung.
Mao Tse Tung was an ancient greek, akhna?

delete
02-16-2007, 11:02 PM
A child will not look up to a stupid submissive woman. He will instead look after his father and emulate his father's habits. If i was to be a good father, or at least, be a strong role model (which i certainly hope that i can become), my work would be done.
If my son was a submissive, sheepish twit i'd teach him discipline. Not all men are born great, but just because one is born a weakling doesn't mean one must remain a weakling for his whole life.
As for the mother, if she were an "INDEPENDENT" woman she'd be a terrible role model, feminizing the male children and corrupting them with modernist thinking.

My mother is no stupid submissive woman, and neiter is my sister. None of them wants men to stop being men, and neiter does any of the rest of the women I know. Do you live somewhere where all the people are crazy?

You did not answer this:
What if your son turned out stupid?
What if you died?

Ahknaton
02-16-2007, 11:13 PM
Mao Tse Tung was an ancient greek, akhna?
No, but he disagreed with them. What's BS is the notion that women have no input into how children turn out, not that some of the Greeks said so.

delete
02-16-2007, 11:14 PM
All women are submissive to an alpha male Mazdak. The smart ones with "attitude" are simply looking for a male they deem "worthy" of submitting to. Refusing to display submissive behaviours around a male is just rejection of him as not being an alpha male (which doesn't mean he doesn't have a chance with her of course, since there aren't enough alpha males to go around).

Women go for looks, behaviour, money, a nice voice, men who are good in sport, or one million other things. That they also show a preference for what you call the alpha male, does not make the alpha status alpha omega when it comes to mating and pair-bonding.

Why do women fall for 15 year old men, as none of them has alpha status?

Starr
02-16-2007, 11:23 PM
no. One ancient greek said it aptly, women are the dirt in which the man plants his seed. women have no input. I'd rather have a child that i can teach to be a man than one that will be lost because his mother is an independent minded whore who divorces me after a year and takes the kid with her.


Can't a woman be both independent and strongly committed to a male and her family? If you get only the latter without the former there is a good chance the woman might become somewhat resentful. a lot of these conversation are always all or nothing. Either a woman's place is generally in the home, solely or not at all and she is a whore, feminist,etc. this is very typical of male thinking patterns. They can never see a more reasonable middle ground. And before you say you don't care how happy or unhappy the woman is, consider, of course that a resentful and unhappy woman is not going to make your life too pleasant. A slavish woman chained to the kitchen is not a good role model for children. You are considering only the possible benefits that would give to you, which will not end up being much of a benefit at all, since you would be married to someone who knows you have no respect for them, whatsoever. And no matter how much you might think or not want it to be so, a woman does require to be treated better than a child or pet. If you are incapable of giving that to her, she will just find someone who can. It sort of sounds like you want to force a situaition where she has no options other than you and will stay in the home and with you no matter if she wants to or not. The better option for both you and her is to be the kind of man that makes her want to be with you and respect you, rather than forcing her to.(in reality these things are not something that can actually be forced) A man who is confident enough and knows he can be this kind of man does not need a slave or a woman to "mold", as you talked about earlier.

Micaelis
02-16-2007, 11:26 PM
Mazdak is good entertainment when it comes to women and relationships. :D

Ahknaton
02-16-2007, 11:28 PM
Women go for looks, behaviour, money, a nice voice, men who are good in sport, or one million other things. That they also show a preference for what you call the alpha male, does not make the alpha status alpha omega when it comes to mating and pair-bonding.
Of course not, the alpha male goes for the alpha female, because he can.

I don't like the idea of denoting "most inferior" with Omega. In 1984 (not my ideal world, but whatever) "Epsilons" are the lowest of the low. I propose a new system where males are ranked from highest status to lowest as Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta and Epsilon, and females from highest to lowest as Omega, Psi, Chi, Phi and Upsilon. So the male pair-bonds with this complement at the opposite end of the alphabet, Alpha-Omega, Beta-Psi, Gamma-Chi, Delta-Phi and Epsilon-Upsilon. You know it makes sense! :D
Why do women fall for 15 year old men, as none of them has alpha status?
Casual flings. They don't pair-bond with them.

delete
02-16-2007, 11:28 PM
I didn't see your post.
I said Escher was overrated. I also said that you don't need to go to art museums to know about Escher. These were two separate points. And your comment about Bach exactly echos what I said. Good job. Try reading my posts next time.

You wrote this.


It's not that Escher is "so-last-season", it's that he's a creator of visual curiosities and nothing more.

Now you say he is over-rated.

Can you understand that people who know mathematics is able to see more in Eshers art than you?

Billy Score
02-16-2007, 11:33 PM
Can't a woman be both independent and strongly committed to a male and her family?
No.
Akhenbashi: No, but he disagreed with them. What's BS is the notion that women have no input into how children turn out, not that some of the Greeks said so.
Since when did you value the words of a chinese communist?


Delete:
My mother is no stupid submissive woman, and neiter is my sister. None of them wants men to stop being men, and neiter does any of the rest of the women I know. Do you live somewhere where all the people are crazy?

I don't care what either your sister or yourmother want, it isn't their choice whether men remain men or not. it is men's duty to society, not to women.

shanemac
02-16-2007, 11:34 PM
That's total BS.

"Women hold up half the heavens" - Mao Tse Tung.

You're quoting Mao Tse Tung as some kind of source of wisdom?

He was a mass-murderer, a liar and a hypocrite.

But worst of all, he was a believer in Communism. Anyone who believes in the fairytale world dreamed up by K Marx during his long nights avoiding his wife and kids at the Library in London has no credibility.

Ahknaton
02-16-2007, 11:34 PM
Since when did you value the words of a chinese communist?
Whenever they're true.
You're quoting Mao Tse Tung as some kind of source of wisdom?
It doesn't matter what the source is. The content is what matters, not who said it. That is how women think!
He was a mass-murderer, a liar and a hypocrite.

But worst of all, he was a believer in Communism. Anyone who believes in the fairytale world dreamed up by K Marx during his long nights avoiding his wife and kids at the Library in London has no credibility.
Irrelevant to the point I was making. I posted it because it's a good quote.

Helios Panoptes
02-16-2007, 11:34 PM
Were i to put out a personal add i'd simply say :

Stupid, submissive woman with low self esteem. 17-25, no hogs.

The mother's genetic importance is equal to the father's. If your goal is to breed with a stupid(low IQ) woman, it does not speak well to your forethought.

Arrow Cross
02-16-2007, 11:44 PM
You're quoting Mao Tse Tung as some kind of source of wisdom?
He was a mass-murderer, a liar and a hypocrite.
He was, but wisdom should be heeded, whoever speaks it. I found this particular one to be true.

Mazdak is good entertainment when it comes to women and relationships. :D
We agree, for once. Mazdak and I are virtually polar opposites in this matter, but he's a good debater still. :)

delete
02-16-2007, 11:49 PM
Of course not, the alpha male goes for the alpha female, because he can.

I don't like the idea of denoting "most inferior" with Omega. In 1984 (not my ideal world, but whatever) "Epsilons" are the lowest of the low. I propose a new system where males are ranked from highest status to lowest as Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta and Epsilon, and females from highest to lowest as Omega, Psi, Chi, Phi and Upsilon. So the male pair-bonds with this complement at the opposite end of the alphabet, Alpha-Omega, Beta-Psi, Gamma-Chi, Delta-Phi and Epsilon-Upsilon. You know it makes sense! :D

First of all 1984 had proles, but brave new world had greek letters.

You call the men who get the pretty girl apha male, and the go on to say that alpha males gets the pretty girl.

This is cricular argumentation. You need to be able to pick out your alpha males in advance, if not the alpha male status becomes trivially true.

So you don't think women fall in love with what could become an alpha male in the future?


Casual flings. They don't pair-bond with them.
I have known people who have been together since they were 15, and stayed together all their life.

edit: I dont know if this is an expression in English.
When I say that something is not alpha omega, I mean that it is not the whole "aphabet" (truth) about the subject.
It was a pun on words saying "it does not make the alpha status alpha omega"

Zubenelgenubi
02-16-2007, 11:51 PM
What's this? A tacit invitation for one or more of the males to break ranks and win the approval of the cultured female!

Sorry for the 20c pop-psychology analysis leopoldbloom but this thread is begging for it.

I'm not talking about approval here, I'm talking about calling a spade a spade. But you can't break ranks? Need safety in numbers? What, am I so scary? :) Don't worry about me, I can deal with it. If I couldn't I wouldn't be here. I've experience dealing with misogynists, I used to play chess in high school. Just expect that if you are blunt about your opinion of me, that I will be blunt in return. :p

Helios Panoptes
02-16-2007, 11:56 PM
Women go for looks, behaviour, money, a nice voice, men who are good in sport, or one million other things. That they also show a preference for what you call the alpha male, does not make the alpha status alpha omega when it comes to mating and pair-bonding.

Why do women fall for 15 year old men, as none of them has alpha status?

The woman is inclined to seek a stable relationship, but she will "cheat" on her mate with someone more genetically desirable. This will likely be a male with dominant personal mannerisms and/or physical appearance. What the woman needs is a male to rear her young. If she cuckolds him with someone superior, all the better.

Ahknaton
02-16-2007, 11:58 PM
First of all 1984 had proles, but brave new world had greek letters.
True, my mistake. I was thinking of the Alpha "World Controllers" but forgot that they were actually in BNW, not 1984. Mexed missages.
You call the men who get the pretty girl apha male, and the go on to say that alpha males gets the pretty girl.
Where did I define the alpha female as the "pretty girl"?
This is cricular argumentation. You need to be able to pick out your alpha males in advance, if not the alpha male status becomes trivially true.
No it isn't. Are you suggesting that mate selection is not based on any objective qualities? These qualities will be apparent in advance of sexual success. Also, a male's status may change over the course of his life, since he will obviously be more attractive when he is in his "prime" (the timing of which will vary from male to male). There is nothing contradictory about any of this.
So you don't think women fall in love with what could become an alpha male in the future?
I didn't say that. "Alpha male" is not just socio-economic status, as you seem to be implying I think.
I have know people who have been together since they were 15, and stayed together all their life.
So do I, but its a rarity.
edit: I dont know if this is an expression in English.
When I say that something is not alpha omega, I mean that it is not the whole "aphabet" (truth) about the subject.
It was a pun on words saying "it does not make the alpha status alpha omega"
Right. I've never heard that expression before, it went right over my head.

Ahknaton
02-17-2007, 12:00 AM
I'm not talking about approval here, I'm talking about calling a spade a spade. But you can't break ranks? Need safety in numbers? What, am I so scary? :) Don't worry about me, I can deal with it. If I couldn't I wouldn't be here. I've experience dealing with misogynists, I used to play chess in high school. Just expect that if you are blunt about your opinion of me, that I will be blunt in return. :p
Don't worry about it, this isn't a super-serious discussion.

Hartmann von Aue
02-17-2007, 12:00 AM
I once was doing some temporary work with a black fellow, an ex-army/waiter who told me about the inexpensive bordellos of Istanbul.

He told he would go to the Art Museum on the weekends to pick up white girls.

Zubenelgenubi
02-17-2007, 12:02 AM
I didn't see your post.

You wrote this.

Now you say he is over-rated.

Can you understand that people who know mathematics is able to see more in Eshers art than you?

I can see the mathematical component in Escher's work, the use of topology, etc. It is mostly a intuitive visual interpretation of existing mathematical concepts. It doesn't really delve too deeply into mathematics, just makes it visually interesting. I understands why mathematicians might be interested in it, but I'm not. You can like it if you want.

delete
02-17-2007, 12:07 AM
No it isn't. Are you suggesting that mate selection is not based on any objective qualities? These qualities will be apparent in advance of sexual success. Also, a male's status may change over the course of his life, since he will obviously be more attractive when he is in his "prime" (the timing of which will vary from male to male). There is nothing contradictory about any of this.


No, I am saying that alpha staus becomes a circular criterion for humans, and I don't think greek alphabet classifications works as good on humans as on dogs and monkeys.

I would not use alpha males to classify pairbonding birds, and I would not use it for solitary animals.

Human comes between some birds and dogs, and should have some other classification system.

I am not against using objective criterions, but I know statistics, and the number of outliers and the multidimentionality of the problem would suggest a more complex classification.

Ahknaton
02-17-2007, 12:12 AM
I would not use alpha males to classify pairbonding birds, and I would not use it for solitary animals.
Would you use it for troupes of monkeys?
Human comes between some birds and dogs, and should have some other classification system.
Monkeys again.
I am not against using objective criterions, but I know statistics and the number of outliers and the multidimentionality of the problem would suggest a more complex classification.
Fair point. I think a single-dimensional hierarchy doesn't lose too much information when describing it though.

Keystone
02-17-2007, 12:35 AM
The problem is, SHE DOESN'T FUCKING EXIST!!!
You're expecting too much. Everyone does these days, that's why there's so much divorce.

If you find a woman who is attractive to you, actually loves you for who you are and won't run around on you, you're pretty much set. You don't have to be "compatible" in every detail.

Marriage is two people helping each other through life---thick and thin. That's what it's for.

delete
02-17-2007, 12:36 AM
Would you use it for troupes of monkeys?

I guess I would use it for most monkeys except humans, as I feel people have multidimentional preferences on what consist an ideal male of female, and the same goes for what social status is. Monkes and dogs don't have this problem.


Fair point. I think a single-dimensional hierarchy doesn't lose too much information when describing it though.


You understand this, so there is not much point in arguing any more.

I feel alpha male status is a good mental concept to understand human behaviour, but I don't think humans fit the classification very well, and I feel that it has little predictive power for human mate selection, except the trivially true.

Zubenelgenubi
02-17-2007, 12:48 AM
Don't worry about it, this isn't a super-serious discussion.

No, I realize.

BTW, this forum has the best smileys.

:picasso:

Rakhmetov
02-17-2007, 04:54 AM
The only intelligent, decent women I've met are either middle-aged or elderly. Women in their twenties are all mindless, selfish idiots that have been degenerated by this barbaric culture.

Zubenelgenubi
02-17-2007, 05:01 AM
Can I kill him?

Starr
02-17-2007, 05:18 AM
Can I kill him?


I would definitely say you have reasonable grounds for provacation, so he, himself, might not have a problem with it:

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showpost.php?p=305760&postcount=18

Jake Featherston
02-17-2007, 08:19 AM
I post this little missive some 25 hours ago, now there are over 100 replies. Well, let's wade into this and see what kind of muck I've stirred up....

Jake Featherston
02-17-2007, 08:23 AM
There are women who are interested in these things. Quite a few, in fact. I like museums, PBS, the whole lot and many of the other women I associate with are of the same mind.

Well then, where did you find them?

BTW, you go to modern art museums to see Escher? He's so overrated.

Saying Escher is over-rated is over-rated; I never said he was the greatest artist of our time or anything, but the exhibit only runs until April 22nd, and then it will be gone forever, so it seems like something worth seeing.

Jake Featherston
02-17-2007, 08:28 AM
Probably not so. Their interests are probably closer to the typical woman, as you describe, than the kind of male you describe.

Hmmm, that didn't occur to me. You're probably very close to correct with that observation, however. Well, it wasn't like I was going to start hanging out in gay bars or anthing, so it hardly matters either way.

while there are more males than females whose interests are more intellectual, the typical male also does not seem to be very interesting. For them, it is sports, beer, and sex.

Yes, most men are little (if any) better than most women, but there's no doubt the pool of higher-minded men is substantially greater than the pool of higher-minded women (which works out well for such women, and poorly for such men, alas).

I sort of blame modern society and especially popular culture for sort of feeding into the more negative qualities that exist in either sex and helping to dumb them down even further.

Yeah, the problem has a lot to do with human nature, but that doesn't prevent the degenerate media culture from doing everything it can to exacerbate the condition.

Jake Featherston
02-17-2007, 08:30 AM
The nature and qualities of the female shall rise only as men take the higher road towards higher tastes and refined behaviour. It follows in that order. It appears selectively more men have such tastes and interest you admire because men in general are the ones who naturally pursue these things first, bringing a trend into society for women to follow and pursue also.

I think you're probably correct about that.

Jake Featherston
02-17-2007, 08:36 AM
men seem a lot of times to also look for women who are not exactly on their level. And I mean lesser intellectually. I recall one of the males, here, even saying something like this in the shoutbox about a week ago.:p

Personally, I'd just as soon be with a woman smarter & better-educated than myself. Why not? It'd be all the more interesting. I already know I'm not the smartest, best-educated person on Earth, and that some of my intellectual superiors are females. Once I've accepted that reality, why not be with one of them? For that matter, being the smartest person in the room (seriously, the last time I can recall being with someone I regarded as an intellectual equal was when I met Bardamu, nearly a year ago) can grow very tiresome, frankly. And if that smarter person has breasts and smells nice, well, so much the better.

(No Tranny jokes)

Jake Featherston
02-17-2007, 08:51 AM
Boo-freakin'-hoo

What a characteristically unpleasant-female response. When women express dissatisfaction with men, everyone crowds around to hold their widdle hands, but if a man has the effrontery to do the exact same friggin' thing, he's the one with the problem. Let's re-state that; its the fault of men that women are dissatisifed with men, and its the fault of men that men are dissatisifed with women. Women are of course utterly blameless (none of this is caused by a surplus of mean-spirited, ignorant, sadistic cunts or anything of that nature; perish the thought). I can assure you that if you expressed discomfiture about all the lame-ass, belching, ballgame-obsessed males running around, my response wouldn't have been "Boo-freakin'-hoo," but rather something akin to agreement. Women often seem very short in the empathy department, as a mater of statistical average. Men are always supposed to tend to their feelings, but when do they tend to ours?

Plenty of women I know fit this description (I'd like to think myself included, at any rate I wear glasses) they are, for the most part taken. In any case the majority of men aren't interested in this sort of women for this reason many women cover up their intelligence with a candy-floss veneer of nonsense.

There are lots of these women, they are all taken, yet men don't like them. Whatever.

Jake Featherston
02-17-2007, 08:58 AM
the OP was pretty goddamn insulting, and I haven't seen any of you dudes do anything but get his back.

Not to a mature person who realized it obviously had nothing to do with her, but rather with those women I've actually tended to meet over the years. Many of them have many fine qualities, and some are rather bright, but they are also rather boring, unless watching re-runs of "Everybody Loves Raymond" and "Frasier" is your thing (and that's being optimistic; more likely they're into "reality" tv). How that possibly constitutes an insult of someone I didn't think about the day I wrote that post, and frankly didn't even know was female, is a mystery.

Jake Featherston
02-17-2007, 09:08 AM
Thank you, Stan. An arch of triumph should be erected to comemorate this day.

The problem with the Mazdak Theorem is (as he has yet to discover) that as one gets older, male companionship becomes an ever smaller presence in one's life (this seems to be true for every guy I know, not just myself). When I was his age, I had tons of dudes to hang out with. Now they're all married, moved away, too busy, etc. That is the natural order, alas, or in any event, its what transpires. This is why female companionship matters so much; because when you're 35, your wife may well often be the only person you talk to for more than a dozen words or so on a given day. The Phora is the best board I've ever come across, but its not nearly as good as real-world social interaction. And you're just not going to have as much as that with guys as you age, if the experience of pretty much every man I've ever known is any guide (and chances are, it at least somewhat is).

Jake Featherston
02-17-2007, 09:11 AM
Do you live somewhere where all the people are crazy?

Well, he does live in New York City....

Sulla the Dictator
02-17-2007, 09:12 AM
Well, he does live in New York City....

Women from New York and San Francisco, while being more liberal than average, also tend to be more interesting than a lot of women elsewhere.

Starr
02-17-2007, 09:16 AM
Originally Posted by Starr
Plenty of women I know fit this description (I'd like to think myself included, at any rate I wear glasses) they are, for the most part taken. In any case the majority of men aren't interested in this sort of women for this reason many women cover up their intelligence with a candy-floss veneer of nonsense.

this was actually heavens to betsy's comment not mine, but I do sort of agree with it. Males, to different degrees want to be the leader, the one in charge,etc. which is probably going to be more difficult if the woman is either on their level of intelligence or of greater intelligence.

Zubenelgenubi
02-17-2007, 09:22 AM
No to a mature person who realized it obviously had nothing to do with her, but rather with those women I've actually tended to meet over the years. Many of them have many fine qualities, and some are rather bright, but they are also rather boring, unless watching re-runs of "Everybody Loves Raymond" and "Frasier" is your thing (and that's being optimistic; more likely they're into "reality" tv). How that possibly constitutes an insult of someone I didn't even think about the day I wrote that post, and frankly didn't even know was female, is a mystery.

Your post said that there were NO WOMEN that were interested in high culture. Zip. Zilch. Zero. That would be insulting to any woman.

Jake Featherston
02-17-2007, 09:25 AM
If you find a woman who is attractive to you, actually loves you for who you are and won't run around on you, you're pretty much set. You don't have to be "compatible" in every detail.

Marriage is two people helping each other through life---thick and thin. That's what it's for.

Yeah, basically you're right, and I already know that, but life is just so damn fucking dull, and it seems like it could be so much better with the sort of woman I envisioned. Hell, why do you think I do drugs? Because one can only read so many books, view so many movies, listen to so many CDs....Of course, if my wife were able to reproduce, that might be different. But she's not. So no kids for us (not that I really enjoy my son very much, I love the Hell out of the little guy, but I'm just not a man who interacts well with children - after tickling his ribs while making a loud buzzing sound, I'm pretty much out of ideas; I even have a hard time thinking of things to say to him, though my dad never had any trouble thinking of things to say to me, nor does he have any trouble with his grandson today - its just not something I seem to have much aptitude for, and now he's all the way in South Dakota, so I don't get much practice anymore), and thus what often seems like a fairly pointless existence. Sometimes it seems like I'm just killing time until I die.

Jake Featherston
02-17-2007, 09:27 AM
The only intelligent, decent women I've met are either middle-aged or elderly. Women in their twenties are all mindless, selfish idiots that have been degenerated by this barbaric culture.

Yes, I used to exclusively date older women (mainly women in their late 30s & 40s while I was in my 20s), but you generally need a women closer to your own age for something permanent. Older women are the bees knees.

Jake Featherston
02-17-2007, 09:33 AM
Your post said that there were NO WOMEN that were interested in high culture. Zip. Zilch. Zero. That would be insulting to any woman.

I didn't expect anyone to take it in the precisely literal sense, but rather to recognize it as the hyperbole it so obviously was.

Zubenelgenubi
02-17-2007, 10:14 AM
I didn't expect anyone to take it in the precisely literal sense, but rather to recognize it as the hyperbole it so obviously was.

It was a hyperbole, but a rather extended one. You didn't even leave much leeway for "maybe these people exist but I just don't know". You said that women interested in culture do not exist, and the question you asked was why no woman was interested in interesting things. If I wrote a post that said "No man is interested in good music", for example, you would still be insulted even if it were obviously a hyperbole. I mean, you can speak in absolutes like that if you want, but you're not going to get off without someone arguing with you when your generalization specifically targets them.

Sulla the Dictator
02-17-2007, 11:36 AM
Yeah, basically you're right, and I already know that, but life is just so damn fucking dull, and it seems like it could be so much better with the sort of woman I envisioned. Hell, why do you think I do drugs?


LOL "My wife/girlfriend is boring" is the silliest excuse for drug use I ever heard.

WFHermans
02-17-2007, 05:41 PM
Now we know why we can't find those women, Ugly American bogarted them all. :D

Jimbo Gomez
02-17-2007, 05:47 PM
Now we know why we can't find those women, Ugly American bogarted them all. :D


Heh, that bastard.

Jake Featherston
02-18-2007, 05:52 AM
LOL "My wife/girlfriend is boring" is the silliest excuse for drug use I ever heard.

Its not that my girlfriend is boring; existence is boring. A more exciting woman might make life less boring. I wasn't making excuses for my drug use, because I do not think there is anything wrong with drug use. Its just that ideally, there ought to be better things to do with one's time, as opposed to using pharmaceutical technology in order to trick your brain into thinking you're enjoying yourself. It'd be better to actually be enjoying one's self. A more interesting woman would likely help make that happen (not that I'm really placing the burden for this on my wife, as my previous wife, and numerous other previous girlfriends, suffered from similar deficiencies, or more accurately, I suffered from their deficiencies).

Jake Featherston
02-18-2007, 05:54 AM
If I wrote a post that said "No man is interested in good music", for example, you would still be insulted

No, I wouldn't be. Why would I be bothered by your feeling that way? I'd tend to assume you had a reason to express frustration in that regard, and not take it personally. That's the difference.

Zubenelgenubi
02-18-2007, 06:20 AM
No, I wouldn't be. Why would I be bothered by your feeling that way? I'd tend to assume you had a reason to express frustration in that regard, and not take it personally. That's the difference.
Really, or are you just saying that because the situation hasn't come up?

Thomas777
02-18-2007, 07:34 AM
Its not that my girlfriend is boring; existence is boring. A more exciting woman might make life less boring. I wasn't making excuses for my drug use, because I do not think there is anything wrong with drug use. Its just that ideally, there ought to be better things to do with one's time, as opposed to using pharmaceutical technology in order to trick your brain into thinking you're enjoying yourself. It'd be better to actually be enjoying one's self. A more interesting woman would likely help make that happen (not that I'm really placing the burden for this on my wife, as my previous wife, and numerous other previous girlfriends, suffered from similar deficiencies, or more accurately, I suffered from their deficiencies).

All you can hope for is to meet a kind, devoted woman who is exceedingly well-mannered, deferential, and semi-cultured who is always happy to see you and doesn't ask questions. On the side, you should have a sexy, whorish girl who is exceedignly passionate, feisty, and animalistic who is always happy to see you and doesn't ask questions.

Balancing these things is what facilitates happiness with females. They're basically beasts of the field, you know...they can only be civilized to a point.

1-800
02-18-2007, 07:36 AM
The problem with most females is that, compared to me, they look ugly, dull, and frumpy.

I often find it hard to tolerate their aesthetic mediocrity--but this is my cross to bear. Any relationship is as much give as it is take.

Jake Featherston
02-18-2007, 07:38 AM
Really, or are you just saying that because the situation hasn't come up?

Nope. I frankly find the idea I'd be insulted if you made some negative generalization about men to be comical.

Thomas777
02-18-2007, 07:39 AM
The problem with most females is that, compared to me, they look ugly, dull, and frumpy.

I often find it hard to tolerate their aesthetic mediocrity--but this is my cross to bear. Any relationship is as much give as it is take.

The problem isn't that you're pretty...the problem is that you're an incorrigible cock jockey.

1-800
02-18-2007, 07:42 AM
The problem isn't that you're pretty...the problem is that you're an incorrigible cock jockey.

Sigh

Some of us spend our lives in a higher realm, Thomas. I don't appreciate your incessant vulgarity and one liners.

I'm sorry if few can appreciate the sartorial sublimity that I have achieved. What we do in life echoes into eternity--think about that.

Thomas777
02-18-2007, 07:44 AM
Sigh

Some of us spend our lives in a higher realm, Thomas. I don't appreciate your incessant vulgarity and one liners.

I'm sorry if few can appreciate the sartorial sublimity that I have achieved. What we do in life echoes into eternity--think about that.

Right on. You're prettier than The Retard...don't be all mad.

Hermetic
02-18-2007, 08:09 AM
It seems the real problem in your life is you, knowing that, the solution obviously is within you to find.


Its not that my girlfriend is boring; existence is boring. A more exciting woman might make life less boring. I wasn't making excuses for my drug use, because I do not think there is anything wrong with drug use. Its just that ideally, there ought to be better things to do with one's time, as opposed to using pharmaceutical technology in order to trick your brain into thinking you're enjoying yourself. It'd be better to actually be enjoying one's self. A more interesting woman would likely help make that happen (not that I'm really placing the burden for this on my wife, as my previous wife, and numerous other previous girlfriends, suffered from similar deficiencies, or more accurately, I suffered from their deficiencies).

Zubenelgenubi
02-18-2007, 08:10 AM
What if I went on a three paragraph long tirade? You wouldn't even correct me?

I mean, this thread was never really that serious to begin with. Obviously your post didn't cause a huge dent in my world. But it did ask to be challenged.

sugartits
02-18-2007, 09:53 PM
Why are men such bags of pain?

They always want to project their negative mindsets onto women. From my observations that is at its worst for men in their 30s.


All you can hope for is to meet a kind, devoted woman who is exceedingly well-mannered, deferential, and semi-cultured who is always happy to see you and doesn't ask questions. On the side, you should have a sexy, whorish girl who is exceedignly passionate, feisty, and animalistic...

Black and white. A little angel, a little devil.

Though it does sound like Jake needs a mistress. It's not about women, it's about novelty. Sunrise, sunset.

il ragno
02-18-2007, 11:06 PM
What Jake said about your social circle dwindling as you get older is true. Sadly, it's exacerbated if you don't have the financial wherewithal to maintain a presence in the more scintillating social circles - a harsh reality that never even occurs to you in your 20s when money is less important...almost unimportant. Although I have a sneaking feeling that the eventual fortress-of-one is a universal truth regardless of caste or class. Millions of motherfuckers out there just dying for a chance to take part in an intelligent, convivial conversation that's not about the weather, the local sports team, the headline in today's paper.

Isn't that why the vast majority of us are here, anyway? The chance to keep further alienation at bay for another day? (Actually, a lot of Phorans are between 18 and 25 and I haven't a friggin' clue why they're here. Unless the alienation process is now beginning at younger and younger ages.)

The point being, I'm not sure if there's anything you can do about what seems to be an immutable part of the human condition. But for Gawd's sake, don't look for a co-conspirator in a wife or lover.

For instance, if your hobby-horses are white nationalism, Holocaust revisionism and death metal so obscure even Norwegians give you quizzical looks when you name-drop the cd, seek a woman whose natural reaction would be to bust out crying, or telephone an exorcist, were you to start rhapsodizing about these subjects at length. Opposites attract, and you want a companion, not a clone.

Besides, nothing extinguishes the flame of love faster than the sight of your beloved peeing on the asparagus patch outside your double-wide. That should be your job, goddamit!

Ahmadinebobina
02-18-2007, 11:19 PM
There is no solution.

Boleslaw
02-19-2007, 12:03 AM
Opposites attract, and you want a companion, not a clone.

This has been proven true in my life to an extent. For example, the women I get along with best are more often than not non-Catholics.

calvin
02-19-2007, 12:08 AM
Catholic girls are more likely to be crafty butchers though.

Boleslaw
02-19-2007, 12:14 AM
Well as I often say, there's nothing more annoying than a person Im supposed to agree with. This is especially true with those real fanatical religious-type girls. I could never tolerate living with one. Plus there are other issues I have with Catholic girls.

Ahmadinebobina
02-19-2007, 12:24 AM
You should all quit while you're reasonably ahead. Degeneracy has its upsides.

omni
02-20-2007, 02:19 AM
Isn't that why the vast majority of us are here, anyway? The chance to keep further alienation at bay for another day? (Actually, a lot of Phorans are between 18 and 25 and I haven't a friggin' clue why they're here. Unless the alienation process is now beginning at younger and younger ages.)



For me it started in high school and has only gotten worse since. I'd imagine the coming generations will have this start to happen when they're even younger than I was.

I see this as a good thing though, because if I would've been more socialized in high school and college, I would've probably gotten into drugs and other bad habits merely by being around other young people all the time. I've seen it happen to others.

Hrolf Kraki
02-20-2007, 02:26 AM
Why aren't there any women who are interested interesting things?

I have the same troubles.

(However modern art is for gays and small children. Why would anyone wish to go to see such things? :confused:)

Sometimes I'll meet a girl who enjoys going to the museum, but you'll only find out by talking to them. Most just come off as sleazy whores. You have to strike up a conversation with some ditzy-looking tramp and hope that she's not as she seems. If she is, then just move on to the next.

Jake Featherston
02-20-2007, 07:04 AM
modern art is for gays and small children. Why would anyone wish to go to see such things?

The San Jose Museum of Modern Art is not one of my favorites (although it blows doors on the San Jose Museum of Quilts and Textiles, and yes, there is such a place, although I've only gone inside in order to get change for a parking meter), but its where the M.C. Escher exhibit is being held....

1-800
02-20-2007, 07:36 AM
What Jake said about your social circle dwindling as you get older is true. Sadly, it's exacerbated if you don't have the financial wherewithal to maintain a presence in the more scintillating social circles - a harsh reality that never even occurs to you in your 20s when money is less important...almost unimportant.

I got my mind on my money and my money on my mind. I am only 21.

Dr. Gutberlet
02-20-2007, 05:12 PM
If a girl likes both Renaissance and medieval art, you should keep her.

Ahmadinebobina
02-20-2007, 06:12 PM
The best girls like Neo-Classical art :P

Dr. Gutberlet
02-20-2007, 06:16 PM
The best girls also listen to the works of both JS Bach and Antonio Vivaldi:)

Ahmadinebobina
02-20-2007, 07:01 PM
They also read an awful lot :D

Jake Featherston
02-21-2007, 08:00 AM
They also read an awful lot :D

I'll settle for reads H.P. Lovecraft, likes Laibach, and will go to sub-titled films with me.

il ragno
02-21-2007, 08:20 AM
Only a married man would have a complaint list that specific and itemized - cheers, Jake