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Felix the Cat
12-14-2005, 03:04 AM
Pope says torture shouldn't be used against terror (http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2005-12-13-pope_x.htm)

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Benedict XVI's top official for justice issues said Tuesday that torture was unacceptable for extracting information that might thwart a terrorist attack.

In analyzing what caused terrorism, the pope said in the Vatican's annual review of world conflicts that "consideration should be given not only to its political and social causes, but also to its deeper cultural, religious and ideological motivations."

Benedict also issued a warning about fundamentalism.

"Religious fanaticism, today often labeled fundamentalism, can inspire and encourage terrorist thinking and activity," he said.

His message, which was issued for the approaching new year, also lamented that international diplomacy aimed at eliminating nuclear menace had become "bogged down."

Benedict paid tribute to his predecessor, Pope John Paul II, who vigorously opposed the war in Iraq, and said the church would continue "serving the cause of peace."

At a news conference about the peace message, Cardinal Renato Martino, head of the Vatican's pontifical council on peace and justice, was asked if torture could be a legitimate tool to gain information that might prevent terror attacks.

The prelate replied that there was no justification for using torture, which is the "humiliation of the human person, whoever he is."

"The church does not allow torture as a means to extract the truth," Martino said. Terror suspects "sometimes say what the torturers want to hear. ... There are other ways to obtain the truth."

Benedict noted that the Holy See had called for the prompt implementation of international humanitarian conventions dealing with the effects of wars.

"Respect for that law must be considered binding on all peoples," the pontiff said.

That prompted a reporter to ask Martino if the pope was concerned about allegations of secret CIA prisons in Europe.

The pope "is not condemning anybody, but is inviting them to observe the Geneva Convention" on the treatment of prisoners of war, said Martino, who used to be the Vatican's ambassador to the United Nations.

Benedict urged reforms to make the United Nations "a more efficient instrument" in promoting peace and justice.

The pontiff said he was dismayed about "a continuing growth in military expenditures and the flourishing arms trade, while the political and juridical process established by the international community for promoting disarmament is bogged down in general indifference."

Negotiations are stalled between Iran and the European Union aimed at making Tehran permanently freeze nuclear enrichment. That process can produce material for use in warheads or fuel for nuclear plants to generate electricity.

And tensions have marked much of the diplomacy to persuade North Korea to give up its nuclear programs in exchange for aid and security guarantees.

"The truth of peace requires that all — whether those governments which openly or secretly possess nuclear arms, or those planning to acquire them — agree to change their course by clear and firm decisions, and strive for a progressive and concerted nuclear disarmament," Benedict said.

"It can only be hoped that the international community will find the wisdom and courage to take up once more, jointly and with renewed conviction, the process of disarmament," the pontiff said.

daisy
12-14-2005, 03:45 AM
church would continue serving the cause of peace
catholic church could calm some catholic immigrants down
too bad some of those roudy muslims aren't catholic enough to listen to the pope. hey maybe some churches could make an annex section for islam classes to help control the muslim masses. advertise the classes on tv and encourage parents to send roudy teenagers.
it would be more productive than muslim teenagers burning cars.
__

Jimbo Gomez
12-14-2005, 10:50 AM
Our Holy Father obviously has not experienced the horrors of a terrorist attack on his country yet (something I of course do not wish upon Germany or the Vatican), that may have tainted His vision somewhat.

Lenny
12-15-2005, 08:20 PM
I recall that before being picked to be God's representative on Earth earlier this year, Rat-zinger aka "Pope Benedict" was the Chief of the Inquisition (now called something else)

And now he says "No" to torture? How Ironic.

Jimbo Gomez
12-15-2005, 08:36 PM
Lenny you dumbass, get that marxist propaganda out of your head.

Lenny
12-15-2005, 08:47 PM
Lenny you dumbass, get that marxist propaganda out of your head.Was he or was he not the head of the Inquisition? (now called Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith)

The correct answer is: He was.

Jimbo Gomez
12-15-2005, 09:41 PM
Leave it to Lenny to bitch about someone who opposes torture just because he's Catholic.

Lenny
12-15-2005, 10:16 PM
Leave it to Lenny to bitch about someone who opposes torture just because he's Catholic.It's not "Just because he's Catholic" :argue: he was head of the Inquisition, that's what makes it ironic


If you say the Chief Inquisitor is "Just a Catholic", maybe you will also say that Solomon Morel is "Just a Jew" and should not be criticized

In 1994, Solomon Morel, now 86, fled to Israel from his native Poland to escape prosecution for genocide. This month, for the second time, Israel has refused to extradite him to face charges.

Poland's Institute of National Remembrance (IPN), which investigates war crimes, holds Morel, as commandant of the Swietochlowice concentration camp, responsible for the deaths of 1,538 prisoners -- mostly civilians, a mixture of men and women, children and old people, Polish and German, who were abused, beaten, starved, raped and brutalized.

http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/Dissenters1/Zundel1/morel.htm
Note though that the Roman Catholic Inquisition murdered more people in any given month than Morel did in his entire time at it :eek:

jcs
12-15-2005, 11:06 PM
Note though that the Roman Catholic Inquisition murdered more people in any given month than Morel did in his entire time at it
How many during last few months before the inquisition was renamed? During Ratzinger's tenure?

he was head of the Inquisition, that's what makes it ironic
It would be a little more ironic if the Church were using torture anytime in recent history.

Petr
12-16-2005, 04:44 AM
The Vatican harlot is always following wherever the political winds might be blowing. (Karl Marx actually once said that if the worldly powers would become socialist some day, the church of Rome would soon change its teachings accordingly and preach socialism.)

Right now it is fashionable to be a tender-hearted humanist, so Rome acts that way.

Michael A. Hoffman II put it well:

"The Vatican is a ghetto, a flea market, an auction house. Look at their public parading of the pope’s corpse, like a carnival sideshow Injun Joe. It’s the first time I have ever felt sorry for the guy, when I saw his stuffed and costumed remains tossed in the street to be ogled by throngs of camera-wielding thrill-seekers … The Vatican has everything to do with chess and Niccolo Machiavelli and almost nothing to do with Jesus Christ, except as a kind of advertising gimmick."


Petr