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Lenny
12-15-2005, 06:58 PM
The Irish Unionist Alliance

"We are a small but growing group of people, organised in the form of an exploratory committee and based mostly in the Irish Republic. Our aim is to explore the potential for building a sustainable unionist movement here, which would help to strengthen the friendship and links between the peoples of the British Isles. To this end we decided to publish this website, along with our discussion paper - "A New Union for a New World" (http://www.irishunionism.org/policies.htm) - in order to stimulate debate. "


Introduction

We hope to break the nationalist consensus in Irish politics. This is a long term project; we are realistic about what we can achieve in the short run. We want to promote a more balanced understanding of the Union on all levels of Irish life - from the classroom to the public house. Our vision is a global one, in tune with the rapid change of the times in which we live. We will build links with groups who share our aspirations across the Commonwealth and the world.

We believe in an ongoing process of reconciliation, which we hope one day may overcome all the artificial political divisions between the peoples of these islands. But whilst we have legitimate unionist aspirations, we have our feet firmly on the ground. Our focus is on what is achievable, and on what we can contribute to the shared political life of these islands, rather than on distant constitutional fantasies. It is just as legitimate to be a Dubliner of unionist disposition, as it is to be a Dubliner of nationalist disposition.

Whilst we do not exclude the possibility of contesting elections in the future, we have no immediate plans to do so. We believe that such efforts would divert our attention from our real task which is changing public opinion and creating a new intellectual atmosphere in which positive political developments can take place. We do not believe in further fragmentation of the unionist vote. Hence we pledge not to stand candidates in Northern Ireland, whilst reserving the right to do so in constituencies in the South.


Mission Statement

There is increasing debate about the future of Ireland. In this environment, the exploratory committee of the Irish Unionist Alliance have approved the following Mission Statement, setting out our aims, objectives and key tasks. The statement emphasises our determination to promote and protect the identity of British & Unionist people across Ireland, in order that we can better contribute to the shared task of building an increasingly pluralist society in a new and closer association with the United Kingdom.


MISSION

The mission of the Irish Unionist Alliance is to represent its members and to work towards a new federal relationship between the United Kingdom and the Irish Republic.


OBJECTIVES

# To work for the creation of a new, dynamic and prosperous Ireland within a Federal United Kingdom.
# To promote a more balanced understanding of the Union among the Irish people.
# To protect and promote the interests of the British / Unionist minority in the Irish Republic.
# To support the creation of a genuinely pluralist and inclusive society across Ireland.
# To support and seek to enhance the role of the British Isles Council (BIC).
# To work towards Irish membership of the Commonwealth Federation.
# To support the retention of the Pound Sterling as the currency of the United Kingdom.
# To strengthen the political, cultural and economic ties between existing members of the Commonwealth.
# To counter the influence of violent and anti-democratic elements within both communities on the island.


METHODS

# To reorganise unionist associations across the 32 counties of Ireland.
# To negotiate with the political parties and with the governments in London and Dublin on all matters relevant to our objectives and in the interests of our members.
# To articulate our understanding of Irish events world-wide, and particularly in Washington, DC.
# To engage in strategic alliances with those who share some of our objectives.

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http://www.irishunionism.org/topleft.jpg

http://www.irishunionism.org

Felix the Cat
12-16-2005, 09:08 AM
Good lord, are there really still Unionists in Ireland? I thought they had all left in 1922.

Milesian
12-16-2005, 09:27 AM
They are having an Orange Walk through Dublin shortly.
So much for Loyalist claims of oppression (laughable in the extreme), when it's easier for them to hold their little bigot-fests in the Republic than it is in Northern Ireland.

Hakluyt
12-16-2005, 09:45 AM
They are having an Orange Walk through Dublin shortly.
So much for Loyalist claims of oppression (laughable in the extreme), when it's easier for them to hold their little bigot-fests in the Republic than it is in Northern Ireland.
Where have you heard such claims? I have only heard good things about about the Order in the Republic for the past few decades; in many places non-Order members have included themselves in festivities. Fears on the part of Ulstermen regarding possible oppression in the future are reasonable, but such talk is almost always of a historical nature - for example RC marriage laws restrictive to Protestants which were only repealed in the 1980's or so

Felix the Cat
12-16-2005, 11:19 AM
How are these people regarded in Ireland?

Hakluyt
12-16-2005, 06:41 PM
Here is one account from the bbc, overall I have heard of very few bad experiences in the last 10 or 20 years:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1430423.stm

Of course we shouldn't be conflating Unionism and Orangeism in the first place, in Northern Ireland or anywhere

daisy
12-17-2005, 12:47 AM
long live the irish! God be with you!

Lenny
12-17-2005, 05:38 PM
How are these people regarded in Ireland?I would like to know this too



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Purely Hypothetical question:

Would the nationalists (I use that term in the general sense, not in the sense of 'nationalist' as opposed to 'unionist') in Ireland rather have full independence and Northern Ireland annexed by the Republic of Ireland with full British withdrawl BUT have Ireland have a large and increasing non-white immigrant population, OR have the Republic of Ireland annexed by the UK (the goal of "The Irish Unionist Alliance") BUT have Ireland have very few non-whites living there and immigrating.

Jonathan
12-18-2005, 07:14 PM
How are these people regarded in Ireland?
As an insignificant minority.

Jonathan
12-18-2005, 07:18 PM
Where have you heard such claims?
Paisley for example.

I have only heard good things about about the Order in the Republic for the past few decades
You're mistaken here. The Unionist Alliance and the Orange Order are not the same thing. They are two different organisations(no doubt with considerable over lap of members). The Orange Lodges tend to be kind of Ulster-Prysbetarian around the Border, but this Unionist Alliance looks to be more Anlgo-Irish and South Dublin-ish.

Jonathan
12-18-2005, 07:22 PM
-----------
Purely Hypothetical question:

Would the nationalists (I use that term in the general sense, not in the sense of 'nationalist' as opposed to 'unionist') in Ireland rather have full independence and Northern Ireland annexed by the Republic of Ireland with full British withdrawl BUT have Ireland have a large and increasing non-white immigrant population, OR have the Republic of Ireland annexed by the UK (the goal of "The Irish Unionist Alliance") BUT have Ireland have very few non-whites living there and immigrating.

Option 1 would go down much better than option 2 I'd say, although this may change soon(with increasing immigration et al.). Alot of the old Guard (deValera, Collins, MacNeill) admitted that they'd rather have a Gaelic Ireland than a Free Ireland. Nowadays, all the "nationalist" parties are officially Multiculturalist(for the sake of the PC world) although public opinion is much more varried.

Hakluyt
12-18-2005, 07:40 PM
Paisley for example.
Go ahead and detail them then. It's entirely possible he's claimed something like that, given his political role, but I doubt it.

You're mistaken here. The Unionist Alliance and the Orange Order are not the same thing. They are two different organisations(no doubt with considerable over lap of members). The Orange Lodges tend to be kind of Ulster-Prysbetarian around the Border, but this Unionist Alliance looks to be more Anlgo-Irish and South Dublin-ish.
I am strained to see what this has to do with the bit of my text you quoted. It is unrelated, and I've already stated as much in another post.

Jonathan
12-18-2005, 07:48 PM
Go ahead and detail them then.
I have no intention of doing anything of the sort.

It's entirely possible he's claimed something like that
Why do you think that?

but I doubt it.
And why do you think that?

I am strained to see what this has to do with the bit of my text you quoted.
Alow me to explain:
Hakluyt:
I have only heard good things about about the Order in the Republic.

You clearly mention "the Order", in your next post, you went on to post a link to an Orange Order march. I felt it was necessary to point out that the two groups were different for the good of the majority of reader of this thread.

It is unrelated
See above.

and I've already stated as much in another post.
Your posts were misleading IMO as they gave links to Orange Order marchs. I felt that if I expanded on the point of both being different, then people wouldn't get confused.

Any other problems while you're here?

Jonathan
12-18-2005, 08:04 PM
Fears on the part of Ulstermen regarding possible oppression in the future are reasonable...
While you're here, I might as well ask you to fill in that too.

Hakluyt
12-18-2005, 08:18 PM
Why do you think that?
He is a demagogue and often makes outrageous claims

And why do you think that?
Because I've never heard anything like that before, from loyalists or otherwise, and it wouldn't mesh with the facts.

You clearly mention "the Order", in your next post, you went on to post a link to an Orange Order march. I felt it was necessary to point out that the two groups were different for the good of the majority of reader of this thread.
The article was only intended to describe the Order. I was plain to state that we should not conflate the Order with Unionism in the very same post.

Jonathan
12-18-2005, 08:23 PM
Because I've never heard anything like that before, from loyalists or otherwise, and it wouldn't mesh with the facts.
But surely you know that the raison d'etre of Unionism is to prevent Northern Portestants from loosing their privilaged status by joining with the republic? This is based on the notion that the Republic would treat Protestants badly. Surely you've heard the slogan "Home Rule is Rome Rule", no?

The article was only intended to describe the Order. I was plain to state that we should not conflate the Order with Unionism in the very same post.
It wasn't ment as a slight against you...only to clear things up for posters who are not well read on Northern Unionism.

Milesian
12-19-2005, 10:36 AM
I've nothing but support for Irish Unionists, being one myself.
It's the British Unionists that are the troublemaking, foreign minority.

Hakluyt
12-19-2005, 02:55 PM
But surely you know that the raison d'etre of Unionism is to prevent Northern Portestants from loosing their privilaged status by joining with the republic? This is based on the notion that the Republic would treat Protestants badly. Surely you've heard the slogan "Home Rule is Rome Rule", no?
Sure. Even if "oppression" is unlikely, and I would agree that it is not imminent under a Republic, there are long-term concerns of religious freedom that simply do not exist when Ulster is allowed to self-determine. Again, though, I don't see what this has to do with my remarks you've quoted, that I have never heard any claims of oppression for either Orangists or Unionists presently.

Anyway I am only taking issue with Milesian's blather here, I don't intend to defend the Unionist line on every matter

Milesian
12-22-2005, 11:02 AM
Anyway I am only taking issue with Milesian's blather here

Kindly elaborate.

Geist
12-22-2005, 11:45 AM
How are these people regarded in Ireland?

Indifferently, first I've ever heard of them, if I told my friends they'd look bemused to say the least.

Hakluyt
12-22-2005, 06:04 PM
Kindly elaborate.
See post #4