Is Rock music a Negro invention?

[Ixtab]

Is it? I don't know enough about modern music to have an opinion worth having. The history of this genre, in particular, is a mystery to me.

[infoterror]

Is it? I don't know enough about modern music to have an opinion worth having. The history of this genre, in particular, is a mystery to me.

No. It's Celtic and Germanic folk music with a constant beat. It is musically unremarkable.

[Eisenhans]

Jazz, on the other hand, is negro music.

[Anarch]

Jcs will probably interject, I know he has strong opinions on the subject.

IMO, no.

[Ixtab]

No. It's Celtic and Germanic folk music with a constant beat.Please elaborate.

[The Retard]

All modern music, in some way, is derivative. To say it was just stolen from blacks is oversimplified. The history of rock is far more complex than that.

Furthermore, I think a lot of history is being suppressed because of political correctness. I just recently found an article where it stated a white man had discover many of the modern trumpet techniques used today. However, the article quickly wrote off his accomplishment to say he copied it from black musicians of the time. This could very well be true, but there is no proof he did either.

Anyway, I think modern rockers have little in common with Little Richard or Chuck Berry. I really don't think it matters who invented it.

And wasn't rock popularized during the Civil Rights Era? I smell a Jewish conspiracy!! :rofl:

[Charles_Rigaud]

Rock music was created by blacks and or heavily influenced by blacks, why does the white man feel the need to try to steal a piece of the black pie?

Rock

"Perhaps the most popular form of 20th-century music, a combination of African-American rhythms, urban blues, folk and country music of the rural South. It has developed since the early 1950s into hundreds of subgenres, each with its own audience, record labels and radio formats."

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0776052.html

[Ixtab]

Rock music was created by blacks Evidence?

"Perhaps the most popular form of 20th-century music, a combination of African-American rhythms, urban blues, folk and country music of the rural South. It has developed since the early 1950s into hundreds of subgenres, each with its own audience, record labels and radio formats."

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0776052.htmlThat is somone making the assertion in question, not evidence.

[Charles_Rigaud]

Evidence?

That is somone making the assertion in question, not evidence.

Mr white man, do you need more evidence? That is evidence Mr white man, rock music was created by blacks first before the white man hijacked it.

[Ixtab]

... rock music was created by blacks first. ...That is what you just said. Now please elaborate.

[Charles_Rigaud]

That is what you just said. Now please elaborate.

I just did Mr white man, look at the link I posted. can you prove otherwise?

[Anarch]

The onus of proof is upon he who asserts the positive. Do so, Charlie, or submit that you are making nothing but an assertion.

[The Retard]

It was really late at night when I wrote my first post and now see the many errors I wrote.

Anyway, I just want to add it depends on your definition of rock. Those artists back then, to us, are playing R&B. But you also have to breakdown the R&B influences on rock. Once you go to who invented what technique it doesn't become a matter of invention but of discovery. You can't invent playing a chord - you can only discover it. Right?

[Banat]

Jazz, on the other hand, is negro music.

I've heard that although the best jazz musicians are mostly American negroes, jazz itself was the invention of French musicians.

[Dionysus]

I've heard that although the best jazz musicians are mostly American negroes, jazz itself was the invention of French musicians.Quite probably.

[The Retard]

What is some of the distinction between cabaret music and Jazz?

[Roland]

It was really late at night when I wrote my first post and now see the many errors I wrote.

Anyway, I just want to add it depends on your definition of rock. Those artists back then, to us, are playing R&B. But you also have to breakdown the R&B influences on rock. Once you go to who invented what technique it doesn't become a matter of invention but of discovery. You can't invent playing a chord - you can only discover it. Right?

I believe this statement is sufficient:

All modern music, in some way, is derivative. To say it was just stolen from blacks is oversimplified. The history of rock is far more complex than that.

To the black racialist, Rigaud:

It is clear that much of pop-Rock from its inception until present has been influenced immensley by music invented and popularized by descendants of African slaves. As others have stated, rhythmic traditions from old Europe hold similar influences including the invention of many of the instruments used by the African innovators.

[Ixtab]

I just did Mr white man, look at the link I posted. can you prove otherwise?Why would I have to prove that Rock music is a White invention, when I have neither claimed nor even believe that it is? I don't know enough to judge either way. But so far I haven't seen any evidence from you that it is a Black creation.

[infoterror]

Rock music is pure hype. Everything rock did was done earlier by European folk music, including syncopated beats. You know what scenesters are? Scenesters are rock n roll. Thinkers are classical. Qualified furniture movers are folk music.

Similarly, the blues is all hype. Nothing "new" musically, but a new aesthetic style. And why should we care? EVERYTHING IN ROCK WAS DEALT WITH FIRST BY BEETHOVEN, AND FAR MORE INTELLIGENTLY (until Beherit).

[infoterror]

Mr white man, do you need more evidence? That is evidence Mr white man, rock music was created by blacks first before the white man hijacked it.

You'll need primary sources there.

http://bbs.anus.com/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001471

[Geist]

Rock music, hmm well obviously and its odd nobody has mentioned the link between the blues and rock.

Rock gets its bread and butter from blues music, that is the blues scale, electric guitars and having the guitar as a front instrument from blues music.

Anyway ask yourself who invented rock and roll or who is the king of rock and roll, now ask yourself who influenced that person.

There aint much black people can take credit for but I'm afraid rock and roll is one of them, at least in providing the very basis (that scale), instrument ('lead' guitar) to make it possible.

[Fade the Butcher]

I wouldn't doubt it, although I honestly have no idea.

[Crowley]

Without electricity rock n roll would not be so the most blacks can take is partial credit, but there is no doubt that rock icons like Mick Jagger consciously imitate negroes in their singing style. Sounds ridiculous too.

[Banat]

I think it's most correct to say that rock music is American invention.

The same goes for blues, although I'd agee that concerning blues it would be more precise to call it American Negroes' invention.

[infoterror]

I think it's most correct to say that rock music is American invention.

The same goes for blues, although I'd agee that concerning blues it would be more precise to call it American Negroes' invention.

As article linked on other thread proves, it has Scottish origin.

Negroes added syncopation, sorta, but mostly added "cool."

Basically, rock and blues are shit, hail Germanic-Celtic folk music, the origin ofa ll of this.

You are taught lies in school.

[Lord_Lugdreg]

Guitars were first invented in Spain and Chords were first discovered by Europeans. Also Celtic Folk music is the primary influence in Rock N' Roll so Rock N' Roll is a White Invention.

When it comes to Heavy Metal there is an interesting thread about it over at the Original Dissent Embalming Society: OriginalDissent.com - Aryan Roots of Metal (http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18678)

[Banat]

And all that doesn't contradict what I said, which was that rock was to be considered as American invention. For what is America than a collective buit up, among other things, on various European traditions. Rock did't develop in either Ireland or Scotland, but in America, that's my point. Its roots are however a different subject.

And speaking of Celtic folk music, astonihing similarities were found between it and folk music of some areas in Balkans, by the way.

[Billy Score]

Either way, rock is a negative that should be wiped out. It is an abomination that has lowered music to the most primitive level and only appeals on the most shallow level. It offers no depth because it is incapable of depth. This is what happens when you toss away standards for music.

[Fade the Butcher]

You just got some rep points.

[Billy Score]

... one was a neutral, and another was a negative. thanks alot to whoever just sank my reputation.

[Fade the Butcher]

The neutral must have been me. I forgot I had the reputation system turned off.

[Billy Score]

The neutral must have been me. I forgot I had the reputation system turned off.
Apology accepted :p

[infoterror]

Either way, rock is a negative that should be wiped out. It is an abomination that has lowered music to the most primitive level and only appeals on the most shallow level. It offers no depth because it is incapable of depth. This is what happens when you toss away standards for music.

I definitely prefer classical music. The stuff I write for work when listening to rock is as one-dimensional as advertising from Apple Computer, Inc., but if I'm listening to classical, I have a more contemplative view of the world. Especially Bruckner!

[Snouter]

I think y'all have to define what "rock music" is. A number of American Negro artists did come up with some signficant material in the Blues and Jazz genres. But then again Irishman Rory Gallagher was the best blues guitarist in history.

Negros generally do not make any contributions as far as the more sophisticated and complicated forms of rock that have carefully constructed pieces such as 60's psychedelic material like the Moody Blues, Grateful Dead, Nazz, etc. It is sad really that Negros are rarely even good at drumming, the jungle-derived beat being supposedly their strength.

[jcs]

Music [ Rock ]
One cannot contemplate rock music without viewing its roots; that being said, its roots cannot be viewed without analyzing their origins in turn, and the political circumstance which shaped their public image.

Derived from English drinking songs, Celtic folk music, German popular music including waltzes and the proto-gospel singing of Scottish immigrants, "country folk" music had been an aspect of American culture since the early days of the Republic, but as it existed in country and not city was rarely recognized by cultural authorities of the day. Further, once new populations became empowered and replaced the old, most of this history was forgotten.

In part, the reason for this was political: the members of society who advanced American popular music as an artform were not of the original Northern European population, nor were they disposed toward thinking benevolently toward the same; further, they needed to invent something which, like advertising throughough the 1950s, presented itself as an oppositional alternative to the "traditional, boring" way of doing things (early advertising extolled the virtues of its products, while later advertising promoted products as part of a lifestyle which had to demonstrate both novelty and uniqueness to have value as a replacement for the traditional, boring, and otherwise effective way of doing things; this transcendence of function for image has fundamentally shaped American character). As a result, the mythos of blues as a solely African-American artform, and the denial of the Celtic, English and American folk influences on both blues and rock music, was perpetrated as a marketing campaign with highly destructive results for all involved.

The blues was not formalized until it was recorded, and at that point in time, a fixed structure was imposed on it based on the interpretations of others. Broadly stated, it used a minor pentatonic scale with a flatted fifth, constant syncopation, and distinctive "emotional" vocal styles. Of all of its components, none were unique, nor was its I-IV-V chord progression unique to the blues. To view it from an ethnomusical perspective, the blues is an aesthetic (not musical) variation on the English, Scottish, Irish and German folk music which made up the American colloquial sonic art perspective since its inception. From a marketing perspective, however, the blues had to be marketed as a revelation from the downtrodden and suffering African-American slaves, so that it might maintain an "outsider" perspective which, to people bored with a society based on money and lacking heroic values, might appear more "authentic" than their own.

When country music was re-introduced to the then-standardized blues form, the result was called rock music. Its primary difference from country was in its use of vocals which emphasized timbre over tonal accuracy, and the adoption of a more insistent, constant syncopated beat. While German waltz and popular music bands had invented the modern drum kit and developed most techniques for percussion, their music and that of their country counterparts in America tended to use drums sparsely, much more in the style of modern jazz bands than in the ranting, repetitive, dominant methods of rock music. However, it is hard to find someone in a crowd of mixed caste, race, class and intellect for whom a constant beat is intellectually and sensually inaccessible, so it was adopted as a convention. Much as the standardization of the blues took diverse song forms and brought them into a single style, rock swept a wide range of influences into a monochromatic form.

Some historical backfill is worth noting here. The Celtic folksongs of Ireland and Scotland had two main influences: the pentatonic drone music of the Semitic "natives" of the UK, namely Scythians and the diverse groups forming "Picts," and the Indo-European traditional music which is continued in India today. The melodies, including pentatonic variations of many different forms (many of which include the flatted fifth or modal analogue), are almost contiguous such that a player of Indian classical music and a Celtic folklorist can complete each others' melodies in the traditional manner. Similarly, pentatonic music also derived from the Indo-European tradition was present in Germany, most notably in the biergartens and public ceremonies requiring simple music that everyone could enjoy. These musics employed improvisation, as did classical playing from the previous four hundred years; when these historical facts are recognized, American popular music can be identified as the marketing hoax that it is.

The consequences of this hoax have been a persistent blaming of white Americans for "stealing" a black form of music that never existed, and in return, a condescension toward traditional forms of music of all races that became identified with, and scorned as, a black form of music. As we shall see, marketing has both shaped the American experience and contributed to longstanding internal conflicts without resolution. In terms of popular music, marketing is important precisely because it insists on standard forms; they are easy to reproduce without requiring any particularly unique talents on the part of performers, producers, marketers or audience. This has caused an increasing simplification of music while marketing has grown correspondingly more savvy and, like American advertising as a whole, has grown away from focus on the product to focus on lifestyle associations unrelated to the product.

However it arrived, blues-country became "rock" in the 1930s-1950s mainly because of technology. Adolph Rickenbacker invented the electric guitar in 1931, and recording equipment advanced from the primitive to the cheaper and more portable units brought on by vacuum tube and then transistor technology. Additionally, microphones improved, especially those which could capture the nuances of voice. Louder guitars and vocals required the simple shuffle beats of blues drumming to gain volume, prompting a revolution in drum kit assembly. As a result, the simple blues-country hybrid became a marketing standard known as "rock 'n' roll," then "rock," as it was absorbed into the American mainstream. The earliest bands lacked much in the way of style, but wrote complacently harmonizing pieces based on the European popular music of clubs in the 1930s (much of jazz is based upon the same music). As time went on, the stylings - appearance, performance and cultural positioning - of the music became more advanced, and the songs themselves became simpler and more like advertising jingles.
http://www.anus.com/metal/about/history/

[Gorilla]

Not all guitar music played in 4/4 time is blues derived. No Robin, blacks didn't invent everything.

[il ragno]

All art, popular or otherwise, that came into being (or developed into prominence) during the 20th century is culturally diverse. Not in the perverse definition o the term buy which nations are being destroyed, but the ideal (and correct) use of the term, as a mingling of influences, some similar, some disparate.

The idea that anyone "stole" anything from anyone is ridiculous when one considers that the blues itself was originally a commingling of African and North European influences: slaves, hearing through uniquely-African ears, the songs of the old country that they'd hear 18th and 19th-century whites sing, and reconstituting them filtered through their own instincts, traditions and references.

You can shun jazz or blues or Broadway showtunes if you like because of such cultural 'mongrelization', lol, but that kind of mongrelization is the essential nature of creativity itself. There is nothing new under the sun, only new ways to interpret and view, and renew, what's always been around in one form or another. And we achieve nothing but for the achievemernt of others before us. Sorry but that's going to include a few niggers and at least one Turk. I think the patient will survive regardless.

[tempus fugit]

The guitar wasn't invented in Spain; the Greeks had a guitar called a Kithara.

There is NO indigenous 12 bar form in Africa that approximately a blues progression.

The I-IV-V chords are mathematically resonant and fitting to our ears. The Japanese also typically used similar pentatonic scales.

Metal differs significantly from rock in that rock was electrified blues and country, while metal is free from those genres.

If done correctly, metal can be a modern Caucasian classical music purely (even to the extent that a Polish American invented the electric guitar). :)