View Full Version : Feminism and sexual revolution are booming in India and China
"Culture of Critique" is now invading India...
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=66&ncid=66&e=2&u=/bw/20050818/bs_bw/b3948530
India's New Worldly Women
By Pete Engardio in New York
Thu Aug 18, 8:17 AM ET
When the first American music videos and popular TV shows began appearing in Indian homes in the early 1990s thanks to satellite and cable, many pundits predicted Indian society would never be the same. For the first time, young Indian women saw a regular dose of sexy, scantily clad divas shimmying. Female viewers also saw independent, successful women -- think Ally McBeal -- and fun, sensitive guys a la Friends. Sex and divorce were openly discussed in these TV imports and couples kissed passionately -- then still a taboo in Indian TV shows and movies.
Indeed, the impact on younger generations of Indian women has been profound. Whereas Indian women traditionally have been submissive to parents and husbands and valued frugality and modesty, a number of sociological studies show that young Indian females now prize financial independence, freedom to decide when to marry and have children, and glamorous careers (see BW, 8/22/05, "A Thousand Chinese Desires Bloom").
TOMORROW'S BUYERS
"A generation back, women would sacrifice themselves and believed in saving," says Nisha Singhania, senior strategic planning director of Grey Worldwide India. "Today, it is spend, spend, spend. It is O.K. for a woman to want something for herself, and people will accept it if she goes out into a man's world making a statement."
Because today's young women are the key consumer group of tomorrow, these shifts have big implications for marketing companies. And the trends come out clearly in two recent studies by Grey Global Group. One study examined 3,400 unmarried women aged 19-22 of different income and social levels. Altogether, the project involved 40 focus groups in five large metro areas and five smaller cities.
In some cases, the researchers lived with the women for a while to study them more closely. The researchers supplemented this data with interviews of journalists, teachers, and psychologists.
Among the findings:
-- Guilt-free materialism. Fifty-one percent of young single women in major metro areas say it's necessary to have a big house and big car to be happy. In smaller cities, 86% agreed with this statement. "This shows that the less women have, the greater are their aspirations," says Singhania.
One woman interviewed was making just $200 a year but said she wants to own a jet plane. "A typical comment in recent interviews was, 'I want money, fame and success,'" says Singhania.
-- Parental ties. Traditionally, parents regarded girls as somebody else's future property. They arranged marriages for their daughters, and then the daughters would go away and take care of their in-laws, so parents needed and doted on sons. "As a girl, you never spoke to your parents. They spoke to you," Singhania says.
But today's young women are rebelling against that. Sixty-seven percent say they plan to take care of their parents into their old age -- and that means they need money.
Unilever (NYSE:UL - News) played on that sentiment with a recent controversial -- but successful -- ad for its Fair and Lovely line of beauty products. A daughter came home and found that her parents had no sugar for coffee because they couldn't afford it. She became an airline hostess after using the Fair and Lovely products to make her beautiful. She then visited her parents and took them to a first-class restaurant.
-- Marital freedom. Now many women say they'll marry when ready -- not when their parents decide to marry them off. Sixty-five percent say dating is essential, and they also want to become financially independent before they marry. More than three-quarters -- 76% -- say they want to maintain that independence afterward. Sixty percent say they'll decide how to spend their own salaries.
What's more, 76% say they'll decide when to have children. "They now regard this as the woman's decision completely," observes Singhania. In big metro areas, 24% say they never want children, and that number reaches 40% in smaller cities.
-- Individualism. Female role models in Indian culture used to personify perfection, Singhania says. Now, 62% of girls say it's O.K. if they have faults and that people see them. "They don't want to be seen as Mrs. Perfect," she says. "Popular characters are Phoebe of Friends and Ally McBeal. They like women who commit blunders."
-- Careerism. A decade ago, most young women saw themselves as housewives. After that, most said they wanted to be teachers or doctors. "If they had a profession at all, it had to be a noble cause," Singhania says. "Now, it is about glamour, money, and fame."
A surprising 45% of young single females say they would like to be journalists. Singhania says that's largely because prominent female journalists, especially TV reporters, are seen as very glamorous.
Another 39% say they would like to be managers, 38% are interested in design, and 20% think they want to be teachers. Interestingly, 13% say they would like to be in the military. The percentage of those saying they want to be a full-time housewife was minuscule.
-- Modern husbands. "The relationship with the husband used to be one of awe," Singhania says. "Now, women want a partner and a relationship of equals. They want to marry a man like Greg of Dharma and Greg or Chandler of Friends." A recent Whirlpool (NYSE:WHR - News) ad shows a man washing the family clothes before his wife comes home from work, while a Samsung home-appliance ad shows a husband and wife cooking together.
For Indian society, the changes in young women's outlook on life is revolutionary. For marketers, they offer interesting new opportunities to exploit.
Here is another article from BusinessWeek, the one that the piece below alluded to: "A Thousand Chinese Desires Bloom""
Culture-destroying individualism and consumerism are rapidly spreading in the Far East. This phenomenon will have global consequences, so I'd advice WNs to pay good attention to it.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_34/b3948531.htm
A Thousand Chinese Desires Bloom
AUGUST 22, 2005
A large study gives insight into the mindset of China's increasingly varied consumers, a complexity foreign outfits need to get to grips with
Many foreign companies still tend to treat Chinese consumers as an undifferentiated mass. Their priority is getting products into the country, figuring they can then formulate an advertising campaign based on clichιs of what people in developing nations want (see BW, 8/22/05, "India's New Worldly Women").
In fact, China's consumer market is quickly becoming increasingly sophisticated -- and segmented. Savvy corporations are learning to tailor their products and pitches to the tastes, aspirations, and demands of distinct elements of the population.
"People from the outside think this is just a gold mine," says Grey Global Group's Josh Li, managing director of the marketing outfit's Beijing office. "Actually, this is a very complex market, with many diverse lifestyles."
THE CHINESE DREAM.
To get a good picture of China's emerging consumer class, Grey collaborated with the British Council, a government-funded organization that promotes education and culture, to conduct a detailed study of Chinese aged 16 to 39 living in 30 big cities.
They collected data from home visits with 70,000 people -- an enormous sample size -- that Grey figures is representative of 50 million to 60 million people. The study was supplemented with data from a Chinese research institute survey of 10,000 university undergraduates.
The main trend that emerges is that the younger generations in China are very confident about their future, says Viveca Chan, an early pioneer in studying Chinese consumers, who was until recently head of Grey's Asia operations. "When I went to school, everyone talked about the American Dream, and everyone in China aspired to go there," Chan says. "Now, the Chinese Dream is starting to happen."
PRAGMATIC YOUTH.
Another clear finding is that young Chinese adults are extremely driven and are obsessed with getting ahead. "If you talk to them, they are very eager to get connected to the business world, the reality world," says Li. "This is entirely a new generation for China."
Li, who is 35, says when he was in college he was very much involved in politics and took part in the 1989 prodemocracy movement. "Now, students don't care about those issues. They care about getting a good job and are quite willing to join the Communist Party to get it, even though they don't believe in communism."
But this doesn't mean all young Chinese think only about making money. "At the same time, they are looking for fun," he says. "They are looking for safe rebellion and calculated risks. There's a lot of unemployment, so the competition for jobs is huge."
PRECIOUS INFO.
This kind of information is valuable for marketing companies as they try to figure out which buttons to push. The study, called the Chinese Media and Marketing Survey, found that the younger Chinese generation can be segmented into consumer groups with distinct psychological perspectives and values.
The biggest consumer category, 34% of the sample, is what Grey labels "advancers." They are obsessed with their self-image, and money is important to them. Most are male, and 69% are married.
"This is the big market, the backbone of China's consumer market," says Li. "And they have a lot of influence over those below them." These are the buyers Volkswagen, General Motors, and the major cell-phone suppliers are after.
KEY TARGET.
Another 17% of the young adult market are regarded as "experimenters," meaning they are most likely to be the first, say, to buy a PDA with the latest features. About 11% of those sampled can be classified as "young and hip" -- they are the type who want iPod music players and trendy clothes. They tend to admire the same celebrities as Taiwanese or Hong Kong youth. And 11.6% are classified as "motivated" -- mainly concerned with getting ahead in their careers.
The richest segment, labeled the "achievers," account for about 5%. These are the people who often end up in top executive positions and are a key target market for companies like Oracle.
INFLUENTIAL SEGMENT.
This privileged group is always influential in Chinese society, Li says, because of the prestige associated with success. Especially popular are wealthy tycoons who are socially responsible, such as Hong Kong's Li Ka-shing, who donates heavily to educational causes.
A final, and surprisingly big, segment of the Chinese young adults are simply the "independents," those who pride themselves on charting their own course and not following the pack. They account for 8.6% of young adults.
Perhaps the most interesting aspects of the Grey study, however, is the way it breaks down the psychological makeup of today's young Chinese adults. Researchers asked a number of questions about basic values. In many ways, attitudes seem like those of young Americans in the post-World War II era.
Among the major characteristics:
Individualism: Roughly two-thirds of young Chinese prefer to do things themselves, rather than rely on others. The same percentage also say they don't judge others on how they live their lives.
Craving a better life: Only 39% of Chinese are happy with their life as is. And a mere 18% say they have enough money to enjoy life. Fifty-nine percent say they need to take risks to be successful. For consumer products companies, this means there is a huge desire for new trends.
Career ambition: Eighty percent of younger Chinese say they are working very hard for their career. Two-thirds agree with the statement, "It is important that my family thinks I am successful."
Liberated women: Men should do house work, according to 64% of men and women surveyed. The divorce rate now is about 22% in China overall but higher and rising in urban areas.
Internationalism: Two-thirds of young Chinese adults say they are interested in other cultures and in international events, while 52% say they are attracted to lifestyles of developed nations. But marketers shouldn't take these opinions too literally. Says Chan: "They don't walk the walk. They still eat noodles, not pasta. Lifestyles are very difficult to change."
Value of knowledge: Some 75% say it's important to be well-informed. "This is an important trend," Li says. "The market is characterized by mobility. People believe they will have a better life with more knowledge." It helps explain why the education market, especially for business and professional improvement programs, is booming across China, as are sales of business books.
Longing for enjoyment: There is growing demand for spiritual experiences. Sixty-two percent say they spend time outdoors to understand nature, one-third say they exercise regularly. "However, this is an aspiration," cautions Chan. "The survey also shows 51% are willing to sacrifice leisure for making more money."
Social consciousness. Young Chinese adults care more about the environment, charity, and public interests in general than older Chinese. Sixty percent say they have often taken measures to protect the environment, and 59% say they appreciate enterprises or brands that support charity.
Add all of these findings together, and you get a profile of a population that's making a dramatic departure from thousands of years of tradition. What's more, attitudes are changing with remarkable speed. They are putting a greater value on creativity, self-expression, and control over their own lives.
For Western companies, understanding this evolving mindset -- and dispensing with old stereotypes -- will be vital for success in the China market.
By Pete Engardio in New York
It is interesting that southern, Dravidian parts of India have progressed more than "Aryan"-speaking northern parts of India...
http://coranet.radicalparty.org/pressreview/print_right.php?func=detail&par=607
Indian Proof That Literacy and Lower Birthrates Go Together
24/04/2001 | International Herald Tribune |
Sunanda K. Datta-Ray OXFORD, England
The latest census figures from India disprove Malthusian predictions of a population getting so big that it spirals out of control and creates havoc. The figures confirm that investment and development bring down numbers more effectively than any conscious effort to limit births.
The message should not be lost on Indian politicians who still look askance at economic liberalization, which started a decade ago, as a conspiracy to enrich capitalists at the expense of the poor.
A second lesson from India's 2001 census bears out the claim by Amartya Sen, the Nobel prize-winning Indian economist, that education, especially for women, is the best catalyst for birth control and social progress. As he has pointed out many times, population growth is lowest in the southern state of Kerala, which has the highest male and female literacy rates.
The new statistics show that numbers in Kerala, where 93 percent of people can read and write, grew by 9.4 percent in the last decade. Growth in Bihar, whose 47 percent literacy rate lags behind the national average, was about 25 percent. India registered a 21.3 percent population increase from 1991 to 2001, adding in absolute terms 180.6 million people to bring the present total to 1.027 billion. This is 2 percentage points below the growth rate for the previous decade.
The total is below China's 1.265 billion, belying predictions that, unrestrained by the coercive one-child policy that Beijing imposed 20 years ago, Indians would soon outnumber the Chinese.
India's voluntary birth control program has been virtually moribund since an attempt to impose mass sterilization during the emergency regime of the late Prime Minister Indira Gandhi from 1975 to 1977. .India is profiting slowly from rising income levels since the free market reforms that were introduced in 1991 by then Prime Minister P.V. Narasimha Rao and his finance minister, Manmohan Singh.
The reforms have been continued by the current coalition government of Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee. Absolute poverty, defined as a daily income of less than the equivalent of $1, fell from 36 to 26 percent in the decade to 2001. The literacy rate has risen from 52.2 to 65.4 percent. The number of illiterates has fallen (from 328 million to 296 million) for the first time since India became independent in 1947.
Birthrates are lowest in the southern and western states - Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and Maharashtra, in addition to Kerala - which have forged ahead economically since 1991. Birthrates are highest in northern states like Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan, which rely mainly on agriculture. These northern states have low literacy levels.
A side effect of this pattern is that it accentuates the north-south divide in Indian politics.
The central government's policy of treating population size as the determining factor for allocating funds, which gives Uttar Pradesh with its more than 166 million people the lion's share, could be said to reward backwardness. So do special educational, financial and employment privileges for lower caste groups in the Hindu hierarchy.
Such anomalies prompt achievers like Chandrababu Naidu, the chief minister of Andhra Pradesh, to complain of discrimination. But reform is unlikely, since Uttar Pradesh is Mr. Vajpayee's home and his party's principal bastion. The rationale for disbursing funds is political, not pragmatic.
The answer to India's problems lies in greater productive investment. It alone can generate resources for social reform, especially much higher per capita spending on primary education. The writer, a visiting fellow at Corpus Christi College, Oxford, and a former editor of The Statesman in India, contributed this comment to the International Herald Tribune.
I couldn't log on The Independent and get the whole article - perhaps some subscriber could provide the whole thing?
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article332352.ece
The sexual revolution sweeps across China
HIV, divorce and abortion rates soar as the new generation rejects repression and creates its own permissive society
By David Eimer in Beijing
Published: 11 December 2005
When logging online became possible in China in 1995, the authorities cannot have imagined that a decade later millions of people would crash an internet provider in their efforts to access a website where they could listen to a 27-year-old female blogger having sex.
But that is what happened when the publicity-hungry Muzi Mei released a 25-minute recording of an encounter with her latest lover. The former sex columnist, who shot to fame in 2003 after she started publishing graphic accounts of her many one-night stands on her blog, symbolises the sexual revolution in China. Political freedom may be unattainable, but the bedroom is the one place the government cannot monitor and young people are taking advantage. Not only are they having more sex than their parents ever did, they are doing it far earlier.
...
Petr
Hrrrph. It seems that our latest posts have disappeared.
Petr
Atlas
12-25-2005, 03:03 PM
Hrrrph. It seems that our latest posts have disappeared.
Petr
I Give you one for that post.
infoterror
12-25-2005, 03:31 PM
HIV, divorce and abortion rates soar as the new generation rejects repression and creates its own permissive society
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"Freedom" is always a codeword for selfishness and poor judgment. Those idiots didn't learn from the West taking it up the ass from such polarized ideas, so now they will pay!
Billy Score
12-25-2005, 05:23 PM
I commented here and lost the comments :(. Women determine the morals of a society, etc. I also believe i commented that islamic nations and muslims seem to be the only honorable women and people left.
Jimbo Gomez
12-25-2005, 05:41 PM
Oh shut up mazdak, those islamic women are as worthless as their men.
Billy Score
12-25-2005, 05:58 PM
Oh shut up mazdak, those islamic women are as worthless as their men.
You prefer the western whore who you'll be her sloppy 50000ths and first white lay or a woman who stands by her people and is not a whore as most muslim women are not?
Jimbo Gomez
12-25-2005, 06:36 PM
Most of our women don't lay with muds. I don't like promiscuity, it is filthy both with men and women, but yes, I prefer our women over theirs.
Geist
12-25-2005, 06:56 PM
You prefer the western whore who you'll be her sloppy 50000ths and first white lay or a woman who stands by her people and is not a whore as most muslim women are not?
Its a matter of aesthetics, a filthy whore white girl will always look better than some random loyal Paki chick, our media has seen to that :D
Sinclair
12-25-2005, 07:23 PM
The articles don't seem to have anything about cost of living, do they?
I mean, in many countries, it is near-impossible to support a family of four (And that's not so big) on one salary.
Billy Score
12-25-2005, 07:50 PM
I would take a mediocre looking woman with some dignity and morals over the most beautiful western piece of trash. If you can't close your legs, that is to me a far worse and more grotesque thing than your physical appearance.
Jimbo Gomez
12-25-2005, 08:14 PM
You have a point there mazdak, but there is always a limit where such statements fail. Wog females physically disgust me.
Billy Score
12-25-2005, 09:39 PM
While i agree to some degree, looks are secondary if in a situation like this. regardless of how "disgusting" they may be.
Jimbo Gomez
12-25-2005, 09:47 PM
You'd lay with a virgin negress who's fat and ugly over an attractive sexually experienced unmarried white woman?
Billy Score
12-25-2005, 10:06 PM
I'd lay with neither as i draw the line with black women. They can have a wonderful personality but i would probably get my jollies more with a manatee.
But i would certainly not take the filthy white trash and i'd have more respect for the black woman.
Kodos
12-26-2005, 12:44 AM
You'd lay with a virgin negress who's fat and ugly over an attractive sexually experienced unmarried white woman?
Hes a f***ed up homosexual.
Kodos
12-26-2005, 12:45 AM
Now to put the question to Petr, feminism is obviously a new and destructive force but was the far East ever a land of rigid sexual morality???
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1356
G-strings Ultimate Cool Symbol Among Chinese Youth
AFP Friday December 19, 2003
G-strings have emerged as one of the ultimate symbols of "cool" among China's increasingly sophisticated youngsters, a survey shows.
"G-strings are cool," public relations company Hill and Knowlton said in a statement. "They empower sexual freedom and choice."
The finding is one of the results of the company's 2003 Global Cool Hunt Survey of the mood and mentality of 18-to-35-year-olds based on interviews and media monitoring around the world, including China.
Several other surveys have demonstrated nearly unanimously that a sexual revolution is taking place in China among the young.
A recent poll of 500 randomly selected single people in Shanghai, the country's most cosmopolitan city, showed 30 percent had already had sex, while seven percent were living with their partners.
By contrast, a 1997 survey showed that 40 percent of Shanghai couples of different age groups said they had not even hugged or kissed their spouses-to-be before marriage.
The Hill and Knowlton survey also suggested that extreme sports is growing in popularity among young urban Chinese.
In many parts of Beijing, teenagers gather for rock-climbing and skate-boarding, while mountain-biking is a rising trend in the environs of the capital.
"X-sports are extremely cool, providing alternative healthy and adventurous lifestyle choices," the company said.
Looks in Chinese cities are also changing, with short hair for girls only marking the cautious end on the boldness scale.
"Tattoos and piercings are the ultimate cool, as they radically defy tradition and exemplify rule of the body," the company said.
Petr
Fade the Butcher
01-03-2006, 05:52 PM
Carrigan is probably following this.
Niko Bellic
01-03-2006, 11:45 PM
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1356
G-strings Ultimate Cool Symbol Among Chinese Youth
AFP Friday December 19, 2003
G-strings have emerged as one of the ultimate symbols of "cool" among China's increasingly sophisticated youngsters, a survey shows.
"G-strings are cool," public relations company Hill and Knowlton said in a statement. "They empower sexual freedom and choice."
The finding is one of the results of the company's 2003 Global Cool Hunt Survey of the mood and mentality of 18-to-35-year-olds based on interviews and media monitoring around the world, including China.
Several other surveys have demonstrated nearly unanimously that a sexual revolution is taking place in China among the young.
A recent poll of 500 randomly selected single people in Shanghai, the country's most cosmopolitan city, showed 30 percent had already had sex, while seven percent were living with their partners.
By contrast, a 1997 survey showed that 40 percent of Shanghai couples of different age groups said they had not even hugged or kissed their spouses-to-be before marriage.
The Hill and Knowlton survey also suggested that extreme sports is growing in popularity among young urban Chinese.
In many parts of Beijing, teenagers gather for rock-climbing and skate-boarding, while mountain-biking is a rising trend in the environs of the capital.
"X-sports are extremely cool, providing alternative healthy and adventurous lifestyle choices," the company said.
Looks in Chinese cities are also changing, with short hair for girls only marking the cautious end on the boldness scale.
"Tattoos and piercings are the ultimate cool, as they radically defy tradition and exemplify rule of the body," the company said.
Petr
We will destroy them from within! Our evil plans are working!:D
This letter was posted on Henry Makow's website:
http://www.savethemales.ca/
Attack on Tradition: Feminism & Sexuality in Turkey
by Murat Ayvaz
August 02, 2005
Turkey is a country whose population is %99 Muslim.
Islam is the religion, which not only forbids adultery, but also equates adultery with disbelief in God, the Almighty.
On Sunday, July 31st, 2005 I bought three Turkish mainstream newspapers in Istanbul: Vatan, Milliyet and Hurriyet. I couldn't bear indexing the obscene material I found.
When you take the ongoing nature of such publications into account, it comes as no surprise that the yearly divorce rates have multiplied by 1,5 (by 2 in some parts of the country), whereas the number of people getting married is on the decline since 1999.
Consequently birth rates are declining too. In an effort as if to support the trend in the birth rate, Vatan newspaper had a full page article in last week's Sunday edition (July 24th, 2005), titled "Is it compulsory to love children?" It tells the story of a rich, career-minded woman who accidentally gets pregnant and feels no connection with her son. The article basically rationalizes this unusual stance, supported with an expert view.
According to a recent international survey, Turkey has the second highest TV watching rates per person per day, the rate, being around 4 hours. The USA is the first in this category.
The most popular production genre in today's Turkish prime time television is the soap opera. In one production, 4 young women are at the leading roles: One as a divorcee, one as a single person in between oscillating relationships, one as a dominant wife and finally another in an indecisive character. The production is titled: "Shoulder to Shoulder".
It is easy in today's soap operas to find women characters being disproportionately oppressed and humiliated; or on the other hand standing up to, scorning the passive, weak or tyrant male character. Please do take a moment to be informed about the hypnotic effects of TV watching. (http://www.mackwhite.com/tv.html)
Feminism also finds other means of expression in today's Turkish media. In one of the above-mentioned newspapers (Vatan) again on JUly 31st, there was another a full page article which detailed the World Bank grant for the women of the city of Mardin. Mardin is located in the impoverished southeast region of Turkey, whose population mostly consists of traditional, conservative villagers. Women's role in these families is deeply engraved as all embracing, religious housewife and mother. I know it well because both my maternal and paternal grandmothers are from the eastern region of Turkey with almost exact characteristics. They would never be able to give birth to and raise 8 children each if they weren't housewives and strong, loving mothers while living in very poor conditions.
The World Bank grant apparently aims to fund the entrepreneurship of the women of Mardin, who live in exactly same conditions as my parents lived during their childhood.
A couple months ago the biggest mobile phone operator in Turkey, Turkcell, which boosts more than 20 million subscribers in Turkey, was spearheading a widely publicized campaign called "Dad, Send Me To School". The ad campaigns featured a little girl from the same south-eastern and eastern part of Turkey, where there is a great virtual barrier between the concepts of the modern day and a typical day in the regions. The campaign was aiming to send thousands of school-aged girls from poor families to school. The achievement, if reached, without doubt will be more supplies to the population who read newspapers like the ones above and end of the women like my grandmothers. [About the devastating effects of any compulsory state schooling, John Taylor Gatto's "Underground History of American Education" is a must read.]
The underlying "empowering of women" theme was accompanied by an unusual personality in an article of a weekly Turkish far-left magazine called, Aydinlik (translation of the magazine name: Illumination) on March 6, 2005, titled "Soros's women, Name By Name".
This article details funding of women's foundations in Turkey not only by Soros' Open Society Institute but also by other international organizations like National Endowment for Democracy, National Democratic Institute, World Democracy Movement, World Bank, The Ford Foundation, International Women's Health Coalition, Global Fund for Women, Caritas Fund, Women's Learning Partnership and many more with similar names. (For a detailed insight about these foundations, the reader is referred to Eustace Mullins' World Order) The "Illumination" article interestingly notes that most of these Turkish Women's foundations consist of a rather small number of members and/or directors, usually in order to provide the minimum number required by the law. The main theme is certainly the advancement of women's causes in the Turkish society, like the increased attendance to school by women, sexual integration, empowering women in politics and in business, etc.
A short note about George Soros would be apt at this point: Contact Magazine dated December 1st, 1998 detailed Soros' Rothschild connection. It shouldn't come as a surprise because great dynasties like JP Morgan, Rockefellers or fortunes like Warren Buffet's are merely fronts for mammoth Rothschild possessions. It can be traced back to Mayer Amschel (Rothschild) Bauer's will to his five sons forbidding them to have "any public inventory".
All these efforts, which are blueprints of similar operations around the world, will have the certain consequence of depriving the individual of a loving family environment, of a stable, reliable character and relationship; depriving women of a fulfilling role of motherhood and man of fatherhood; emasculating women while forcing the obedience and submittal of the male role. Perhaps, the friendly, hospitable Turkish nature will be a thing of the past.
---------------
Murat Ayvaz, aged 28, is a part-time writer living in Istanbul, Turkey.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
According to CIA Factbook, Turkey's fertility has indeed fallen below the replacement level:
http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tu.html#People
Total fertility rate:
1.94 children born/woman (2005 est.)
As a way of comparison: until the 1970s (when Franco's rule ended and socialists took over), Spain was a macho Mediterranean country much like Turkey, and its fertility was high. After few decades, Spanish fertility now slumps among the lowest in Europe, and I predict that Turkey will follow the same pattern.
Petr
Niko Bellic
01-04-2006, 12:45 AM
As a way of comparison: until the 1970s (when Franco's rule ended and socialists took over), Spain was a macho Mediterranean country much like Turkey, and its fertility was high. After few decades, Spanish fertility now slumps among the lowest in Europe, and I predict that Turkey will follow the same pattern.
Petr
Do you actually see this as a bad thing, given the fact that it's already happened to the West?
Do you actually see this as a bad thing, given the fact that it's already happened to the West?
Let's put this bluntly: I am not sorry to see Muslim birthrates drop, but my Christian religion forbids me to engage in such Talmudic tactics like broadcasting porn to weaken my enemies (like Benjamin Netanyahu, among others, has proposed).
Petr
Steve Sailer has just made available his review of a movie "Head-On" that describes Turkish immigrants residing in Germany who have been contaminated by Western trash-culture:
http://www.isteve.com/Film_Head-On_and_Up_and_Down.htm
Up and Down and Head-On
reviewed by Steve Sailer
The American Conservative, March 28, 2005
...
In Fatih Akin's funny and disturbing "Head-On," a suicidally glum busboy at a Hamburg punk rock bar, who has almost forgotten his native Turkish, agrees to a fake, sexless marriage to a pretty but slutty Turkish girl. She needs a Turkish husband to move out of her patriarchal father's house, so she can sleep around and take drugs.
"Head-On" begins as a raucous reworking of "The Odd Couple" as a punk romantic comedy. When the bride nicely redecorates her pseudo-groom's squalid apartment, replacing his Siouxsie and the Banshees poster with throw pillows, he snorts, "It looks like a chick-bomb exploded in here." (Modern love stories need these kinds of plot contrivances to delay consummation.) But her Carmen-like promiscuity leads to tragedy and an impassioned coda in Istanbul.
Many pundits advocate assimilation as the sure cure for any problems caused by immigration, but few ask: "Assimilation toward what?" In America, for example, immigrant kids often assimilate toward gangsta rap norms. German culture, still despised and depressed 60 years after 1945, lacks the confidence in its own coolness that African-Americans possess, so Hamburg's hipsters, both German and Turkish, assimilate instead toward the decadent styles of the old London and New York punk scenes.
True-believers in assimilation assume that young Turks educated in Germany will naturally want to write a new Eroica Symphony or found the next Mercedes-Benz, but "Head-On" suggests that they actually want to re-enact "Sid and Nancy," Alex Cox's 1986 classic about Sex Pistols bassist Sid Vicious and junkie-groupie Nancy Spungeon, the two most worthless people ever to fall madly in love.
"Head-On" isn't quite as stunning as "Sid and Nancy," but it's close.
Petr
Billy Score
01-04-2006, 04:25 AM
i don't care what religion they are, but this jewish american filth is more dangerous than any ideology, than any terrorist action because it destroys the people at their core.
A people are not.. progressive, a society does not progress, as far as i am concerned solely because they have technology, but also progresses because of the spirit of the people, the strength of culture and tradition and virtue. Without these things, without discipline and self control, all the technology in the world can't save us from the dark ages of our own minds and spirit. I hope that eventually society will feel revulsion from its past (the modern age) and slowly revert back to a more traditionalist form but i fear that this may, once having taken root, destroy humanity entirely by turning us into infantile imps, expecting immediate, physical satisfaction, immediate gratification for our most primal desires without ever thinking twice, or considering anything. We are spoiled and become our own worst enemies. Europe and the United States are the prime, indisputible examples of this.
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/011246.html
Sexual liberation and perversity have taken over the world and the toothpaste can't be put back in the tube
(Note: the initial comment from the Indian living in the West set off a flurry of comments, which are posted below.)
The grim prognosis in the title does not come from me, but from our Indian reader living in the West. Commenting on our recent (and highly recommended) thread on women's hyper-revealing dress and how even "conservatives" have nothing to say against it, ILW writes:
Even whores dressed in more decent ways in days gone past.
There is a fundamental reason why women dress the way they do today. A good looking woman who dresses that way exercises a certain power over men and she enjoys that. She likes to see men watch her and imagine all kinds of fantasies. She rules over them. It is a tremendous boost to her vanity. When she encounters a man who is attractive but doesn't seem to pay much attention to her, she is annoyed or troubled by this. Women want to rule and also want to be ruled. They want to rule over the men through physical attraction but they are most strongly attracted to a man who almost dismisses their physical attributes as common almost contemptuously.
These form the contradictions of the modern female mind. The men have of course been thoroughly corrupted. There is so much sex and corruption on TV, the Internet and the print media that an innocent childhood is now a contradiction in terms. In Europe, pictures of fully naked women adorn newspapers read by the general public. Once a boy has been raised on such a diet, his imagination is taken over by it completely. If he is then put in a society that existed, say in the 1950s, he would find it suffocating. So one thing reinforces the other. And the two act in sync.
I believe the toothpaste is out of the tube. In India, where I grew up and where I spend half my time, the culture has changed beyond comprehension. We now have magazines for married women that discuss better ways of achieving orgasms and sexual techniques.
Broadsheet papers have become tabloids and discuss sex in ways that "respectable" Western newspapers never would. I think once society has been loosened up in this way, you cannot go back to the old ways except by religious revolution and by very harsh punishments, which no one really wants. The phenomenon is now global. I have friends in some Muslim countries--mainly Pakistan, Turkey and Dubai. The stories of sexual corruption in the cities there are quite unbelievable. It is no longer a purely Western phenomenon. The global communications revolution has come to fruition!
- end of initial entry -
Julian Curtis Lee
08-26-2008, 06:07 PM
Rot spreads.
Susan
08-26-2008, 08:14 PM
I promise you Mentious....I'm not following you around on the Phora. Hahaha
I just saw this thread and decided to look in on it. There's so much here at the Phora I have never read. But I am limiting myself to how much I stay on the Internet every day and post, so as not to get addicted. And, it can get that way quickly.
But, yes, the rot spreads and has spread all over this once great country. I am particularly bothered by the "hot moms" phenomenon, and women showing cleavage everywhere they go. Whereas cleavage used to be something a woman showed at night when she went out maybe with her husband or with her lover, now females are wearing tops everywhere they go which are very low cut with mounds of flesh protruding from above. What gives???
I read somewhere recently how cleavage has become the new measurement by which women view each other nowadays. Of course, men enjoy cleavage, that's a given. But I think even some men are put off by the amount of cleavage they are seeing everywhere they go. Its like you can't get away from SEX anymore. You go to the grocery store and there's all the women with their tight low cut tops and their push up bras. And these women have their elementary school age and teenage daughters by their sides.
And for those who think I'm prudish, think again. I've no problem whatsoever with what two consenting heterosexuals do in private, but keep it there. There is no need to turn Mothers into objects of sexual desire, especially when they are out shopping with their own daughters in the middle of the day. It's just unnecessary and not healthy for a White society.
And I'm sorry to say that White women have bought into this hook, line, and sinker.
It's gotten to the point where there are no parameters anymore for specific behaviors. What behavior once was considered appropriate in the confines of the bedroom at night, now occurs in the middle of the day at the shopping mall.
I hope this doesn't sound prudush, as I said, I'm not. But we are losing what behavior used to be considered decent in this country and replacing it with a reckless hedonism.
harjit
08-27-2008, 11:17 AM
Old article, but very relevant. Education of rural women goes a long way in dropping birthrates. The local government of Kerala did a very good job in improving the socioeconomic situation, it's truly a model for the rest of the third world.
http://coranet.radicalparty.org/pressreview/print_right.php?func=detail&par=607
Indian Proof That Literacy and Lower Birthrates Go Together
24/04/2001 | International Herald Tribune |
Sunanda K. Datta-Ray OXFORD, England
The latest census figures from India disprove Malthusian predictions of a population getting so big that it spirals out of control and creates havoc. The figures confirm that investment and development bring down numbers more effectively than any conscious effort to limit births.
The message should not be lost on Indian politicians who still look askance at economic liberalization, which started a decade ago, as a conspiracy to enrich capitalists at the expense of the poor.
A second lesson from India's 2001 census bears out the claim by Amartya Sen, the Nobel prize-winning Indian economist, that education, especially for women, is the best catalyst for birth control and social progress. As he has pointed out many times, population growth is lowest in the southern state of Kerala, which has the highest male and female literacy rates.
The new statistics show that numbers in Kerala, where 93 percent of people can read and write, grew by 9.4 percent in the last decade. Growth in Bihar, whose 47 percent literacy rate lags behind the national average, was about 25 percent. India registered a 21.3 percent population increase from 1991 to 2001, adding in absolute terms 180.6 million people to bring the present total to 1.027 billion. This is 2 percentage points below the growth rate for the previous decade.
The total is below China's 1.265 billion, belying predictions that, unrestrained by the coercive one-child policy that Beijing imposed 20 years ago, Indians would soon outnumber the Chinese.
India's voluntary birth control program has been virtually moribund since an attempt to impose mass sterilization during the emergency regime of the late Prime Minister Indira Gandhi from 1975 to 1977. .India is profiting slowly from rising income levels since the free market reforms that were introduced in 1991 by then Prime Minister P.V. Narasimha Rao and his finance minister, Manmohan Singh.
The reforms have been continued by the current coalition government of Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee. Absolute poverty, defined as a daily income of less than the equivalent of $1, fell from 36 to 26 percent in the decade to 2001. The literacy rate has risen from 52.2 to 65.4 percent. The number of illiterates has fallen (from 328 million to 296 million) for the first time since India became independent in 1947.
Birthrates are lowest in the southern and western states - Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and Maharashtra, in addition to Kerala - which have forged ahead economically since 1991. Birthrates are highest in northern states like Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan, which rely mainly on agriculture. These northern states have low literacy levels.
A side effect of this pattern is that it accentuates the north-south divide in Indian politics.
The central government's policy of treating population size as the determining factor for allocating funds, which gives Uttar Pradesh with its more than 166 million people the lion's share, could be said to reward backwardness. So do special educational, financial and employment privileges for lower caste groups in the Hindu hierarchy.
Such anomalies prompt achievers like Chandrababu Naidu, the chief minister of Andhra Pradesh, to complain of discrimination. But reform is unlikely, since Uttar Pradesh is Mr. Vajpayee's home and his party's principal bastion. The rationale for disbursing funds is political, not pragmatic.
The answer to India's problems lies in greater productive investment. It alone can generate resources for social reform, especially much higher per capita spending on primary education. The writer, a visiting fellow at Corpus Christi College, Oxford, and a former editor of The Statesman in India, contributed this comment to the International Herald Tribune.
It is interesting that southern, Dravidian parts of India have progressed more than "Aryan"-speaking northern parts of India...
To generalize based on the different kinds of Indians you meet in the West, the ones from the North, and particularly Northwest, tend to have an ever-so-slightly greater indication of a machismo culture similar to that of neighboring Islamic countries. Wheres those from the South seem to be more studious and contemplative and nerdy. This may reflect the way it is in India as well, among the middle and upper castes at least, anyway. India's biggest high-tech centers, Bangalore, Chennai and Hyderabad, are all in the south.
Ahknaton
08-27-2008, 11:54 AM
But, yes, the rot spreads and has spread all over this once great country. I am particularly bothered by the "hot moms" phenomenon, and women showing cleavage everywhere they go. Whereas cleavage used to be something a woman showed at night when she went out maybe with her husband or with her lover, now females are wearing tops everywhere they go which are very low cut with mounds of flesh protruding from above. What gives???
You can blame Desperate Housewives for that, as well as the "MILF" meme created by American Pie. Notice how the culture destroyers have Sex in the City for younger, single unmarried women, and Desperate Housewives for the "hot moms" demographic.
harjit
08-28-2008, 02:01 AM
You can blame Desperate Housewives for that, as well as the "MILF" meme created by American Pie. Notice how the culture destroyers have Sex in the City for younger, single unmarried women, and Desperate Housewives for the "hot moms" demographic.
The so-called "culture destroyers" are servicing public tastes, not the other way round.
Someone close to the fashion industry once told me that designers and design houses get the inspirations for their product lines based on what's out in the street. I suspect it's similar with Hollywood.
Starr
08-28-2008, 02:24 AM
The so-called "culture destroyers" are servicing public tastes, not the other way round.
Someone close to the fashion industry once told me that designers and design houses get the inspirations for their product lines based on what's out in the street. I suspect it's similar with Hollywood.
They can take something that is fashionable on a much smaller scale and turn it into a much larger trend. Public tastes have become much more crude over the years as the envelop keeps getting pushed further and further. A show like sex in the city definitely has an effect on suggesting to women how they should be, how to behave, how to be "hip"etc. I see nothing in that show that is truly representative of how women should be in order to be happy or live a more fullfilled life. Quite the opposite, in fact. If anything, some women can also relate to these shows because these characters, much like themselves and how they live their lives, are the result of a lot of negative cultural changes and influences. These shows present these behaviors as something normal and healthy for women, though, when they are very much not. I am tired of these shows where, for example, an adult woman has a different casual sex boyfriend every week or so(along with the mouth of a trucker and zero interest or committment to any kind of family life). This is such an unnatural and emotionally destructive lifestyle for women.
harjit
08-28-2008, 03:21 AM
^^ Starr, from what little I've seen of Sex and the City (my wife used to watch it a few years ago) it doesn't make it look like those four have an ideal perfect life.
They seem to have the various worries and frustrations and conflicts (both external and internal) of normal women. In fact they are quite similar to many women my wife and I know personally or through work - in other words basically happy with their life and career, they have fun, but are also at best ambivalent about being single and worried about the biological clock. It's just a combination of good and bad, shades of gray.
Perhaps the biggest departure from reality in that show is the sheer amount of casual sex those chicks have. I don't think most normal professional women out there are doing that, or at least not nearly to that extent. (Not that they couldn't if they wanted to, but they are different from men who are far more likely to grab opportunities that knock).
Columnist
08-31-2008, 06:38 PM
Let's put this bluntly: I am not sorry to see Muslim birthrates drop, but my Christian religion forbids me to engage in such Talmudic tactics like broadcasting porn to weaken my enemies (like Benjamin Netanyahu, among others, has proposed).
Petr
But isn't this a weak spot, the ban on retaliating in kind? Compare libertarians who on a personal level think retaliation is good, but when a foreign country imposes tariffs, you are not allowed to retaliate with tariffs against that country.
Felix the Cat
09-03-2008, 12:19 AM
In imposing import tariffs you are attacking your own people (who are forced to pay higher prices for goods) as well as the foreign nations whose exports are affected
A libertarian would argue that the decision to boycott the goods of a particular foreign nation should be left up to individual consumers, not dictated by the state
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