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raven
12-19-2005, 04:49 PM
Portugal’s president:
‘I am proud of my Jewish ancestry’
By MICHAEL FREUND

http://ruadajudiaria.com/images/blog/sampaio_sinagoga_03.jpg

With its marble floors, ornate furniture, and rare artwork, Lisbon’s Belem Palace could easily compete with some of Europe’s finest museums. Although not a cultural institution per se, the palace does serve a central function in the life of Portugal: It is home to the president of the republic, Dr. Jorge Sampaio.
Sampaio has served as president since 1996, having been re-elected to a second five-year term in 2001. Unlike in Israel, the presidency in Portugal is more than just a ceremonial post. He is commander-in-chief of the armed forces, and has the power to dissolve parliament and call for national elections.
Sampaio would have little difficulty being counted for a minyan: His maternal grandmother was from a Moroccan Jewish family. His cousin is president of the Lisbon Jewish community, and Sampaio has several distant relatives living in Israel.
In an interview with The Jerusalem Post, Sampaio discussed the rising tide of European anti-Semitism, Portuguese-Israeli relations, and his Jewish ancestry.


Mr. President, anti-Semitism is on the rise across Europe. Why does much of the continent seem unable to cure itself of this prejudice?
I have constantly denounced all forms of discrimination and xenophobia, be it of religious, ethnic, cultural, sexual, or any other nature. I obviously condemn any form of anti-Semitism…. The resurgence of anti-Semitism in Europe is a fact – although it is not a pattern – and must also be seen in the framework of the resurgence of other forms of xenophobia and racial hatred. These manifestations do exist and we must fight all of them with the same energy, attacking their causes, and prosecuting those that sow hatred and violence.

Anti-Israel and anti-Zionist sentiments in Europe often seem to be a cover for expressing anti-Semitic feelings under the guise of political opposition to Israeli policies. Why is Europe so critical of Israel? Is anti-Semitism a factor?
I believe that we must be careful with our assertions. I am ready to admit that some criticism of Israel might have some anti-Semitic motivations. But I absolutely reject that all criticism of Israeli policies has such motivations. In fact, many people who criticize such policies have the security of Israel and the well-being of the Israeli people at the core of their motivations, I for one. I do believe that Europe’s position has strived to be fair and balanced, even if, sometimes, we have not managed to make our position sufficiently clear.

The Portuguese Embassy in Israel sits in Tel Aviv, even though Jerusalem is Israel’s capital. Why won’t Portugal recognize Israel’s sovereign right to determine its own capital?
I know how important and sensitive this issue is for Israelis and most Jews. You know the historical context of this situation. We are bound in this matter by the collective decisions of the European Union. But I also want to tell you that my sincere wish would be for our embassy to move to Jerusalem as soon as possible, for that would mean that peace would finally be at hand.

Portugal was once home to a thriving Jewish community, which was cruelly persecuted and forced to convert in 1497. Has Portugal come to terms with what was done to the Jewish people on its soil?
We have come to terms with our own history, with its more brilliant and with its more shady aspects. The difference now is that all periods of our history are being studied and that we have today a much better knowledge of them. The ceremonies which took place on the 500th anniversary of the Decree of Expulsion, over which I presided with the then- speaker of the Knesset are proof of all this.

Five centuries ago, the Catholic Church and the Portuguese monarchy confiscated Jewish property, including synagogues and other communal structures. Shouldn’t they be returned to the Jewish people as an act of historical justice?
We cannot rewrite or relive history. We cannot go back centuries. We cannot today, after 500 years, redress a situation in material terms. I think we have redressed it in an historical perspective, and I think that all Portuguese, including Portuguese citizens that are Jewish, feel comfortable about it.

A growing number of Portuguese descendants of Jews who were forcibly converted to Catholicism during the Inquisition have recently begun to return to Judaism. What do you think of this phenomenon?
We are proud of our history and of our humanistic values, of the multicultural fabric of our society. If people adopt or return to Judaism, it is entirely a personal issue that enriches our cultural dynamics.

I understand that you have Jewish ancestry in your family. What is your personal connection to the Jewish people? Do you consider yourself to be a Jew?
My grandmother belonged to a Jewish family that came from Morocco in the beginning of the 19th century. She married a non-Jewish naval officer who later was Foreign Affairs minister. I am naturally very proud of this ancestry and of all those that I call my “favorite Jewish cousins,” one of whom is the president of the Lisbon Jewish Community, as I am proud of the ancestry on my non-Jewish father’s side. Personally, I am agnostic, and I do not consider myself a Jew; but I am proud, as I said, of my ancestors.

Has your Jewish background ever been an issue for you in politics?
The answer is no. Portugal, as I have said, is a democratic lay state. Issues of religion, culture, or race are not and should not be an issue in the political arena.

You visited Israel twice as mayor of Lisbon, but have yet to do so as the president of Portugal. Do you have any plans to visit Israel soon?
I would very much like to visit Israel again. I have very strong and enriching memories of my previous two visits. I follow closely developments in your country and in the region. The present situation saddens me very much indeed. And my sincere hope is that, amid all the present difficulties, Israelis and Palestinians can find a way by which to build peace and to end this tragedy and all the suffering it has entailed for both peoples.

I couldn't help but puke after reading this. As a person who is of Portuguese ethnicity I can't explain just how sad reading this makes me. Portugal has been seen as the bottom tier of Western Europe when it comes to economics and not only that but it is a nation that has become quite politically correct as well. I think we all know what the problem is and that problem is the jewish problem.

There are only 1,000 jews in Portugal but there are many more who claim to have Sephardic jewish ancestry and they including the president of Portugal are apart of the multicultural nightmare in Portugal. It is really sad. 500 second-generation Black africans from the former Portuguese colonies raided a beach on June 10th of this year and mugged a whole bunch of white Portuguese people. Then you have the black african gangs in the country who often target white citizens. And what is the country including that jewish president doing about it? NOTHING!

You know what pisses me off? That this servant of Israel, this heretic can be president but yet I who wasn't born there but am full-blooded Portuguese would not be allowed to do so. (I may be wrong but I believe you have to be born there to be president)This heretic is out to serve jewry and Israel moreso than Portugal. :mad:

This is an outrage! And in their constitution they won't allow any groups that they deem "fascist" (aka any group that opposses the multicult lie). :rolleyes: They have one nationalistic group over there that was PC enough to qualify and they only had 0.2% of the country's vote (not sure how many constituencies they ran in). Something is terribly wrong... the juden are ruining a country with a great history. Granted I am totally aware that the country's non-whites don't compare in number to many other EU nations but the fact that they still have black gangs running around and havng a jew for a president, it speaks volumes.

Felix the Cat
12-19-2005, 05:21 PM
Interesting. But I think the president of Portugal is just a figurehead with very little power.

(Article link (http://www.radioislam.org/islam/english/jewishp/portugal/sampaio-jew.htm))

raven
12-19-2005, 05:28 PM
Who knows how much real power he has but I'm not doubting for a moment that something is definately fishy when the president wears a yarmulke. I wouldn't be surprised if the government has a disproportionate amount of members who claim sephardic jewish ancestry. Why else would there be a multiculti idea of bringing in all those african refugees, black/mulato brazilians and to a lesser extent, other non-whites. Then again pratically all of Europe is like that but Portugal I find is quite PC for a mediterranean nation. Spain, Italy and especially Greece are not as PC as that.

Felix the Cat
12-19-2005, 05:44 PM
Yeah, I remember those beach attacks. There was a thread on them on the old Phora

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4083030.stm

All European countries are having these problems, Jewish presidents or not.

raven
12-19-2005, 05:58 PM
All European countries are having these problems, Jewish presidents or not.
Agreed. The beach attacks were fucked. Luckily there were only five minor injuries... including two police officers. However there was lots of looting and mugging. :mad: Also note in that article how BBC "fails" to note the attackers were african. :rolleyes: I can't find an old pic, it showed exactly what happened. There was a huge mass of black guys charging at the portuguese people (whom were trying to enjoy their national holiday at the beach!) :(

Felix the Cat
12-19-2005, 06:07 PM
Five centuries ago, the Catholic Church and the Portuguese monarchy confiscated Jewish property, including synagogues and other communal structures. Shouldn't they be returned to the Jewish people as an act of historical justice?

:rolleyes:

raven
12-19-2005, 06:11 PM
:rolleyes:
http://ruadajudiaria.com/index.php?p=427
Apparently this interview was conducted by the Jerusalem Post. So it was some dumbass zionist reporter I guess who was asking the questions. :rolleyes:

Scales
12-19-2005, 08:08 PM
I couldn't help but puke after reading this. As a person who is of Portuguese ethnicity I can't explain just how sad reading this makes me. Portugal has been seen as the bottom tier of Western Europe when it comes to economics and not only that but it is a nation that has become quite politically correct as well. I think we all know what the problem is and that problem is the jewish problem.
What a rant. What proportion of Portugal's government are Jews then?

Then you have the black african gangs in the country who often target white citizens. And what is the country including that jewish president doing about it? NOTHING!
Listen to you shouting and yelling. The president is of indirect Jewish descent, but I hardly think you can rationally blame all of Portugal's problems on that. Feel free to at least give it a go though, instead of pummelling your chest and hollering.

You know what pisses me off? That this servant of Israel, this heretic can be president but yet I who wasn't born there but am full-blooded Portuguese would not be allowed to do so. (I may be wrong but I believe you have to be born there to be president)
Well yeah; you're Canadian.

Is it this Ariel's Drones thing again? Didn't you frantically deny having this comically exaggerated aggression towards Jews, shortly before you were banned from your own forum for having a childish fit of frustration over losing an argument and then deleting other members' posts to suit your cause?

This heretic is out to serve jewry and Israel moreso than Portugal. :mad:
Please demonstrate how this one person is a servant of Jewry and Israel to the detriment of Portugal. Make it more insightful than this sorry mess of a post.

Something is terribly wrong... the juden are ruining a country with a great history. Granted I am totally aware that the country's non-whites don't compare in number to many other EU nations but the fact that they still have black gangs running around and havng a jew for a president, it speaks volumes.
Does it really? An article in a Jewish magazine plays the Jew angle with the Portugese, non-Jewish president, and suddenly his Judaism is the cause of all Portugal's woes?

Very well, I'm keen to hear your ideas about Jewish Portugal, raven, but you'll have to do better than this. More details please...

raven
12-19-2005, 08:19 PM
Well I'm not trying to convince you. There is no point in wasting my time trying to convince someone of something when they have their mind adamantly set on it. This is a conclusion that you will have to arrive at on your own.

Kodos
12-19-2005, 08:47 PM
Nearly all of the Portugese have significant jewish and moorish blood in them.

Kodos
12-19-2005, 08:48 PM
Please demonstrate how this one person is a servant of Jewry and Israel to the detriment of Portugal. Make it more insightful than this sorry mess of a post.

Seems more like an LFer then a phorite, type who would blame the weather on the jews...

raven
12-19-2005, 09:06 PM
Please demonstrate how this one person is a servant of Jewry and Israel to the detriment of Portugal. Make it more insightful than this sorry mess of a post.

Seems more like an LFer then a phorite, type who would blame the weather on the jews...
Emp I know you're not PC so I'll ask for your take. So what is it exactly that you believe is responsible for multiculturalism and of course the problems that come with it in the west?

Scales
12-19-2005, 09:15 PM
Could have sworn this thread was about Portugal's president's distant Jewish stock being the causative factor in his country's problems, rather than a generic attack on multiculturalism.

Don't move your goalposts, raven. You were asserting a point specifically about Portugal and the Jewish bias of her president, so why not justify that instead of slinking off on an age old and heavily debated tangent?

raven
12-19-2005, 09:23 PM
Could have sworn this thread was about Portugal's president's distant Jewish stock being the causative factor in his country's problems, rather than a generic attack on multiculturalism.

Don't move your goalposts, raven. You were asserting a point specifically about Portugal and the Jewish bias of her president, so why not justify that instead of slinking off on an age old and heavily debated tangent?
I wasn't slinking off I just wanted to know Emp's thoughts as an aside. And second, 1/4 jewish is not distant. Not to mention the dude was wearing a yarmulke for crying out loud. So I don't think he treats that "distant" ancestry as something distant.

Scales
12-19-2005, 09:46 PM
I wasn't slinking off I just wanted to know Emp's thoughts as an aside. And second, 1/4 jewish is not distant. Not to mention the dude was wearing a yarmulke for crying out loud. So I don't think he treats that "distant" ancestry as something distant.
He identifies that he has Jewish ancestry by his maternal grandmother, and indulged that on this occasion, evidently an issue which this Jewish magazine chose to focus on. Why shouldn't he acknowledge a cultural element of his past? Why should that fact alone make him one of -to quip your favoured term: 'Ariel's Drones'?

And let's not get hung up over ceremonial garb in a synagogue, it's facile. Every male, Jewish or otherwise, has to cover their head in a synagogue.

So, it's pretty clear you think all this has a bearing on the problems in Portugal, despite even yourself admitting that only 1000 or so Jews live there. I want to understand your point; please elaborate:

Portugal has been seen as the bottom tier of Western Europe when it comes to economics and not only that but it is a nation that has become quite politically correct as well. I think we all know what the problem is and that problem is the jewish problem.
Explain why portugal's economic problems are Jewish in origin.

You know what pisses me off? That this servant of Israel, this heretic can be president but yet I who wasn't born there but am full-blooded Portuguese would not be allowed to do so. (I may be wrong but I believe you have to be born there to be president)This heretic is out to serve jewry and Israel moreso than Portugal.
Explain why, as a Canadian by birth, you are 'pissed off' that you cannot be president of Portugal due to a clearly nationalistic rule.

Explain why a president who does not consider himself a Jew, states quite clearly that this distant Jewish heritage is irrelevant to his politics and whose country does not recognise the capital city of Jerusalem at all, is a 'servant of Israel'.

And justify the assertion that 'this heretic' is out to 'serve jewry and Israel moreso than Portugal'.

That's all I'm asking; not a rant about political correctness or a sidestep towards ZOG. Just a rational justification for the assertions you are making.

raven
12-19-2005, 10:14 PM
He identifies that he has Jewish ancestry by his maternal grandmother, and indulged that on this occasion, evidently an issue which this Jewish magazine chose to focus on. Why shouldn't he acknowledge a cultural element of his past? Why should that fact alone make him one of -to quip your favoured term: 'Ariel's Drones'?

And let's not get hung up over ceremonial garb in a synagogue, it's facile. Every male in a synagogue has to cover their head.
Because Judaism is a faith that is hostile to all "goyim."


So, it's pretty clear you think all this has a bearing on the problems in Portugal, despite even yourself admitting that only 1000 or so Jews live there. I want to understand your point; please elaborate:
Explain why portugal's economic problems are Jewish in origin.

They aren't responsible for all the problems. Former Dictator Salazar is responsible for quite a few himself. However Portugal is at a point where they desperately need to cut back on immigration. But yet this guy opens up the flood gates which further harms the economy. While the official number is 1000 there are much more apparently who claim sephardic jewish ancestry and even partake in some jewish customs. If they want to be Portuguese they have to abandon such a faith (or better yet, leave) and actually have the country's best interests in hand.


Explain why, as a Canadian by birth, you are 'pissed off' that you cannot be president of Portugal due to a clearly nationalistic rule.
He is a jew. He is not Portuguese. He cares more for his jewish side than his Portuguese side. If he cared about his Portuguese side he would serve the Portuguese people and not the black african gangs.


Explain why a president who does not consider himself a Jew, states quite clearly that this distant Jewish heritage is irrelevant to his politics and whose country does not recognise the capital city of Jerusalem at all, is a 'servant of Israel'.

And justify the assertion that 'this heretic' is out to 'serve jewry and Israel moreso than Portugal'.
Read about the beach raids and it will be all too clear. When asked about the black gangs he simply said that they were alienated in their poor suburbs and such. He doesn't care about Portuguese people. If he did then something would be done to stop these gangs. But he doesn't care. He is known to be quite an incompetent President by the public as well. He has specifically said that he intends to rely on immigration to take care of the low birth rate. How much more obvious is it that he wants to wipe out the Portuguese?

Scales
12-19-2005, 10:34 PM
Because Judaism is a faith that is hostile to all "goyim."
Although I disagree with that oversimplified Stormfrontism, I'll accept that for the sake of argument, as it's a whole separate topic.

Why then, does acknowledging that he has a quarter Jewish ancestry make him 'hostile to the goyim'? He is three-quarter gentile, and does not identify as a Jew. Nor does he follow the Jewish faith.

They aren't responsible for all the problems.
That's not what you said a moment ago. You said:

'Portugal has been seen as the bottom tier of Western Europe when it comes to economics and not only that but it is a nation that has become quite politically correct as well. I think we all know what the problem is and that problem is the jewish problem.'

Do you believe this or not?

Former Dictator Salazar is responsible for quite a few himself. However Portugal is at a point where they desperately need to cut back on immigration. But yet this guy opens up the flood gates which further harms the economy.
Him alone? Or his party, ministers and the voters that elected him?

While the official number is 1000 there are much more apparently who claim sephardic jewish ancestry and even partake in some jewish customs. If they want to be Portuguese they have to abandon such a faith (or better yet, leave) and actually have the country's best interests in hand.
Sampaio never even acknowledged his identity as a Jew in the first place in order to comply with these demands of yours and abandon it. He simply acknowedged its presence in his family.

He is a jew. He is not Portuguese. He cares more for his jewish side than his Portuguese side. If he cared about his Portuguese side he would serve the Portuguese people and not the black african gangs.
He is serving the Portugese people. Portugal was heavily multicultural long, long before he was elected.

You argue as if a relaxed immigration policy alone is somehow proof of partaking in a wider Jewish conspiracy.

He is known to be quite an incompetent President by the public as well. He has specifically said that he intends to rely on immigration to take care of the low birth rate. How much more obvious is it that he wants to wipe out the Portuguese?
If his policies are misguided, that is one thing. Obviously, political dissent is perfectly viable, especially if you disapprove of specific acts.

But that's not what you're saying. You're saying he is a Jewish defector on a mission to destroy his country for the benefit of Israel and the Jews. You disagree with his policies, and because you hate Jews, you link everything about those policies that you disapprove of to Jewish influence, and provide no causative rationale for this.

What a poor, self-indulgent argument that is; forced arguments like that give ethnonationalists a bad name, let alone paleoconservatives.

raven
12-19-2005, 11:06 PM
Why then, does acknowledging that he has Jewish ancestry on his grandmother's side make him 'hostile to the goyim'? He is three-quarter gentile, and does not identify as a Jew.
Because he gives more importance to his jewish side.


That's not what you said a moment ago. You said:

'Portugal has been seen as the bottom tier of Western Europe when it comes to economics and not only that but it is a nation that has become quite politically correct as well. I think we all know what the problem is and that problem is the jewish problem.'

Do you believe this or not?
Salazar wasn't apart of this topic therefore I didn't mention him initially. What Salazar did was in the past... it is up for Sampaio to pick up the slack and actually allow for the economy to grow. He can do this but he chooses not to by allowing in much immigration and illegals.


Him alone? Or his party and the voters that TWICE elected him?
Remember, George Bush got elected as well. :D

He is serving the Portugese people. Portugal was heavily multicultural long, long before he was elected.
Heavily multicultural? You do know that minorities were treated like dirt up until the early 70s right? It was only until then that they started bending over backwards. Not to mention that Portugal expelled the jews over 500 years ago and the Christian Templar knights drove out the moors almost 900 years ago.


You argue as if a relaxed immigration policy alone is somehow proof of partaking in a wider Jewish conspiracy.
I don't believe in a jewish conspiracy per se. However I do feel that it is quite clear that they are trying to assault european culture by this "multiculturalism". Where else in the world besides Europe has relaxed immigration laws like that?


But that's not what you're saying. You're saying he is a Jewish defector on a mission to destroy his country for the benefit of Israel and the Jews. You disagree with his policies, and because you hate Jews, you link everything about those policies that you disapprove of to Jewish influence.
I don't hate jews. I just don't like Zionism. I didn't scapegoat them. Up until like September maybe I was pretty Pro-Israel actually (and anti-Islam. lol) I didn't even give Zionism a thought until like maybe mid-late August. So I have no reason to scapegoat jews out of hate for them.


What a poor, self-indulgent argument that is; arguments like that give nationalists a bad name, let alone paleoconservatives.
Not as poor as the ARA-types you've got.

Scales
12-19-2005, 11:26 PM
You pretty much sidestepped every one of those direct questions.

Here's me expecting you to have the courage of your convictions and tell me all about the salient 'Jewish problem' being the origin of Portugese strife that you mentioned at the start of the thread. And about how Sampiao 'serves only Israel and the Jews' and his quarter-Jewish blood has influenced the country's politics.

You said at the start of the thread that 'the juden are ruining a country with a great history'. You never mentioned how or why.

I wanted you to explain, not only why an atheist with a quarter-Jewish heritage was 'a Jew', but why that 'speaks volumes'.

I was looking forward to an insight into all these things from a Canadian of Portugese origin with an axe to grind.

And suddenly you sound like that Islamophobic anti-Zionist centre-left from OD again and blame it all on common garden multiculturalism.

Good old raven, always flip-flopping -is this like an act or something?

raven
12-19-2005, 11:38 PM
You don't get it. Ask yourself this. Why is it that jews preach multiculturalism when they themselves don't practice what they preach? Sampaio is no different.

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/2785/jewarab3zy.jpg

Kodos
12-20-2005, 04:11 AM
Emp I know you're not PC so I'll ask for your take. So what is it exactly that you believe is responsible for multiculturalism and of course the problems that come with it in the west?

I think the three primary causes are( one is directly political the other two are intellectual).


1. In the early 20th century women were given the vote in most western countries... I don't think anything good has come of it( and unlike with the later feminism jews didn't play much of a roll with getting women suffrage).

The other two are intellectual


2. Marxism spread throughout much of the population, and to this day( Gramscian) holds much of our intellectual elite in its grip and infects the schools and the news media. While many jews have played a role I think its a mistake to label this as being part of a monolithic jewish conspiracy. The adherants of this directly seek to sabotage every remnant of the old order.

3. After WWII humanitarian idealism( which according to Pareto is a sure sign of a declining civilization) became deeply rooted within much of the population as well as a certain western self hatred. While adherants of this may support certain things about our way of life they undermine it at every turn. I would say that nearly the Western European population is almost entirely infected with this intellectual poison btw( Sweden for sure).

daisy
12-20-2005, 06:20 AM
read about the beach raids and it will be all too clear. when asked about the black gangsthey are not black. they are arab muslims who gained north african's black pigmentations through breeding. only their skin is black.
they are 100% arab muslims disguised as north african blacks.
http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?p=22085#post22085

Felix the Cat
12-20-2005, 10:21 AM
A couple of quick points here

1) Jewish communities in America are much larger, richer and more aggressive than those in Europe, so for a European country to have a Jewish president is a much less serious situation than it would be across the Atlantic

Jews in Europe, while annoying, simply don't have the power to (eg.) ban Christmas carols from public schools

2) I'm afraid to say that European leftist movements are overwhelmingly white-gentile in leadership. Jews support them, of course, but they're not the main cause of the problem

It's fear of Nazism that causes so many Europeans to support immigration, multiculturalism and similar movements, not Jewish activism

raven
12-20-2005, 02:06 PM
Well I have thought about this yesterday and I have a new theory on things now. I have arrived at something that is so incredibly simple and doesn't need anything complex to explain it: White people, as stated here, have their minds polluted with this marxist, humanitarian, egalitarianism, etc. thanks to WWII and Fascism during this time and after (as stated by Emp) and thus they totally bend over backwards so that they don't become Nazis. (stated by cowcube). :D I think it makes sense it's just that a person like myself could never fanthom this kind of self-guilt mindset that these new leftists have.

Prince Harry
12-20-2005, 09:33 PM
Well I have thought about this yesterday and I have a new theory on things now.

:rolleyes:


I have arrived at something that is so incredibly simple and doesn't need anything complex to explain it: White people, as stated here, have their minds polluted with this marxist, humanitarian, egalitarianism, etc. thanks to WWII and Fascism during this time and after

There was, from the late 40's onwards, a lot of anti-communist propaganda in the west, due to the Soviet Union becoming the main enemy. Ever hear of Joseph McCarthy, for example? Are you saying that in Iberia, where Franco the fascist was in power in Spain, there was "Marxist" and "egalitarian" viewpoints forced on people?

How you actually any evidence whatsoever of what you are claiming?

Let us know your next new theory as soon as you dream it up.

raven
12-20-2005, 10:26 PM
:rolleyes:




There was, from the late 40's onwards, a lot of anti-communist propaganda in the west, due to the Soviet Union becoming the main enemy. Ever hear of Joseph McCarthy, for example? Are you saying that in Iberia, where Franco the fascist was in power in Spain, there was "Marxist" and "egalitarian" viewpoints forced on people?

How you actually any evidence whatsoever of what you are claiming?

Let us know your next new theory as soon as you dream it up.
I did not say that this all changed OVERNIGHT. It was not like the general public became Marxist in thought, egalitarian, humanitarian, etc. just like that. It was a gradual change from WWII on up. Now we see the result of that. And wasn't there a thread on this forum that shows that McCarthy was RIGHT? His name is also quite demonized mind you.

Iberia is a unique case. Note how I said WWII and Fascism. Fascism wasn't over in Iberia after WWII. However after Spain and Portugal lost their dictatorships they did start going towards the liberal intellectual route.

Freya von Asgard
07-28-2011, 12:32 PM
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/1409/000ayv.jpg