Achilles or Hector?

[Jimbo Gomez]

Out of these two, I always considered Hector to be the greatest hero, the only hero in fact. Achilles cannot be killed (yes yes, the arrow thing) in a conventional manner. He picks fights he knows he cannot lose for the fun of it, and leaves his land to fight a war against a city which has never harmed him.

Hector on the other hand is a patriot. He's a normal man who risks his ass every time he goes out to defend his city. When trouble comes knocking, and Achilles is there, he knows what his fate will be. he is a great and skillful warrior, but he can't defeat a demigod. He doesn't run away but goes to fight anyway.

On the other hand, literature considered Achilles a great hero. His string of victories was nearly endless.

What do you think?

[VAMPIR]

Achilles, no doubt. Hero born to lead wars, to take glory and honour of battlefields.
Great symbol, but not great enough to stop Brad Pitt ruin that story...:p

[Kodos]

Hector. Filler filler

[Macrobius]

No patriotic Roman or Briton can doubt the Trojans were to the good guys. Hellenism was invented in the 1820s, by the British Empire and the Prussians, for political reasons. Two centuries of propaganda have made us forget our roots. Look what happened to the Brits -- or the US -- since the 'Greek Revival'. Federal Neo-Classicism, even, was a better deal.

[Thomas777]

Hector encapsulated Nietzschean-Spenglerian masculine pessimism. He was a true thoroughbred who embraced his own imminent, heroic demise.

Achilles on the other hand was the world's first NeoCon.

[Kodos]

No patriotic Roman or Briton can doubt the Trojans were the good guys.

Well the Romans wouldn't say otherwise since they held that the original roman tribes (not naturalized citizens) were descended from surviving Trojan refugees.

[Keystone]

Well the Romans wouldn't say otherwise since they held that the original roman tribes (not naturalized citizens) were descended from surviving Trojan refugees.
Weren't these two heroes mythological?

[Jimbo Gomez]

Weren't these two heroes mythological?

Of course. Your point being?

[Keystone]

Of course. Your point being?
The point being they're being talked about like they actually existed.

[Kodos]

The point being they're being talked about like they actually existed.

There may be some kernel of truth to it. Troy itself was thought to be mythological until it was discovered on the Hellespont (though there has been a lot of revisionism on this recently it appears).

The Romans absolutely thought they were descended from Trojan refugees... thats not a myth.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Doesn't matter that they're fictional. Entire libraries have been written about the insanity of Hamlet too, for example.

It's fun and interesting to discuss.

[Macrobius]

There may be some kernel of truth to it. Troy itself was thought to be mythological until it was discovered on the Hellespont (though there has been a lot of revisionism on this recently it appears).

The Romans absolutely thought they were descended from Trojan refugees... thats not a myth.

It is entirely possible there were actual refugees, and that the Romans were not actually descended from them, either genetically or politically. This does not lessen their cultural importance -- after all, how many persons are actually descended from the Plymouth colony Pilgrims (i.e., not Massachssetts Bay colony)? The Thanksgiving myth, though loosely framed on an actual historical event, is mostly myth. It was made a national holiday by Abraham Lincoln, during the war, after extensive lobbying by an organisation headed by the author of 'Mary Had a Little Lamb'.

Besides the Romans, all histories of Britons and even the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles mention the Brutus/Trojan connection to Britain. In these texts, Brutus is connected to Brut or Britain, etymologically, and Alba Longa to Albion (Scotland).

[Ahknaton]

Hector. Achilles disgraces himself by dragging the body of Hector behind his chariot. Offering indignities to the mortal remains of an opponent is not heroic behaviour. The dragging of the bodies of US soldiers through the streets of Mogadishu, and the dragging death of James Byrd Jr in Jasper both make me think of Achilles and Hector.

[Boleslaw]

Hector in my view. He does his patriotic duty.

[Kim Jong Tha Illest]

Hector. Although Achilles is physically stronger, he is the prototypical emo fag. He sits out two thirds of the battle because he is crying about a woman (just one, when here they offer him seven!), refuses numerous appeals to his higher instincts, and fights only in a jealous rage when Hector slays his catamite.

Hector, OTOH, fights against overwhelming odds for country and honor. He is powerful, but there are several equally strong greeks, and his army is substandard. Hector has courage and pluck.

[Boleslaw]

The point being they're being talked about like they actually existed.
Perhaps they're metaphorical figures.

[Kriger]

Hector. Achilles was just into Achilles.

[Trojan]

Hector - who else would I vote for :viking:

[Jimbo Gomez]

I see I am not the only person here with a sympathy for tragic heroism. Good, good.

Carry on.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Hector. Although Achilles is physically stronger, he is the prototypical emo fag. He sits out two thirds of the battle because he is crying about a woman (just one, when here they offer him seven!), refuses numerous appeals to his higher instincts, and fights only in a jealous rage when Hector slays his catamite.

QFT!!!

But then Achilles had also made the concious choice to have a short life instead of a long and boring one. He had to follow the script so as to say. :D

[Sulla the Dictator]

Hector like everybody else, though some are too hard on Achilles. Remember that Achilles knew that he would die, and wasn't immortal. Indeed he was cutting his life short by participating in a glorious career.

[Sulla the Dictator]

QFT!!!

But then Achilles had also made the concious choice to have a short life instead of a long and boring one. He had to follow the script so as to say. :D

Yes, exactly. Achilles may have been pretty sure he wouldn't die to some Trojan noob with the stench of goats on his curiass, but he knew that he would die in battle.

[cerberus]

"Was it so hard Achilles,
So very hard to die ?
Thou knowest and I know not -
So much happier am I.

I will go back this morning,
From Imbros over the sea ;
Stand in the trench , Achilles ,
Flame-caped, and shout for me."
Patrick -Shaw Stewart. Killed Gallipoli 1917.


I will plonk for Hector.:)

[Odysseus]

With a name like Odysseus how could I not pick Achilles?

Although as far as Trojans go, Hector was the best.

[Ahknaton]

It would be cool to have a dog named Achilles. Then you could say "Achilles, heel!"

[Macrobius]

It would be cool to have a dog named Achilles. Then you could say "Achilles, heel!"

But then you would sound like a faith-healer.