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Ambrosio Spinola
12-30-2005, 07:02 AM
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=201&sid=6192999&cKey=1133193005000

Immigrants from the former Yugoslavia now make up one of the largest migrant communities in Switzerland. But many are finding it hard to integrate.

Although respected in the past for being hard workers, their image in Switzerland has been tarnished by a small minority which is involved in crime and violence.

At 213,900 people, migrants from Serbia and Montenegro make up the second largest group of foreigners after the Italians (312,000), according to statistics for 2003.

But taken all together, immigrants from the former Yugoslavia – Serbia and Montenegro, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia and Slovenia as well as Kosovo – actually number around 370,000 people.

In the past three years, migrants from the Balkans have also been the most active in obtaining Swiss citizenship, with a third of newly issued passports being granted to them in this period. Many of them have been in Switzerland for a long time.

But despite the fact that the Yugoslav federation no longer exists, people from the region are still often collectively referred to as "Yugos" in Switzerland.

The label has acquired negative connotations, but this was not always so.

Dejan Mikic, a Zurich citizen of Serbian origin, who came to Switzerland in 1967, remembers an occasion in the early 1980s when newspapers ran the headline "The Yugos are coming" with a sense of awe and respect to announce the arrival of a formidable handball team.

Diligent workers

The first wave of immigration from the Balkans brought highly qualified engineers, doctors and dentists to Switzerland, following an agreement between Bern and Belgrade in 1965.

This was followed almost immediately by an influx of seasonal workers.

However, the situation changed after the death of the former Yugoslav leader Marshal Tito in 1980. The resulting deterioration in social and economic conditions drove many of the poorer citizens to look for alternative employment abroad.

The outbreak of war in the Balkans in 1991 led to a further worsening of conditions and different types of migrants.

"There was a change in the social and demographic structure of the migrants concerned," said Philippe Wanner, director of the Swiss Forum for Migration and Population Studies (SFM).

"Whereas the earlier wave consisted of single workers, after the war whole families and refugees began arriving in Switzerland."

A few bad apples...

Despite moves by the government to stem the influx of migrants from the Balkans, those already in Switzerland continued to be joined by their families - with almost 200,000 new arrivals in ten years. Attitudes towards them started to change.

"Drug traffickers and people with local mafia connections slipped in among the genuine refugees," said Wanner.

Though few in number, experts say these people seriously damaged the image of Balkan immigrants.

The situation is not helped by crime statistics. A recent study found that among foreigners sentenced for crimes in Switzerland, the figure for people from the former Yugoslavia increased from 20 per cent in 1991 to 28 per cent in 1998.

But experts warn that the figures do not give the whole story. They say that Albanian mafia criminals only make up a very small minority of the 200,000 Albanians living in Switzerland.

Difficult social circumstances – both in the homeland and the host country - are also said to be a factor.

"Apart from the horrors experienced by people from the former Yugoslavia, often difficult to imagine, it is important to bear in mind that the host society also has a vital role to play," says Janine Dahinden, who also works for the SFM.

Discrimination

She says that Switzerland is partly to blame for some of the failures in integrating these immigrants. One person of Balkan origin in five was born in the country, she adds. But it still remains difficult to obtain Swiss citizenship.

Dahinden also points out that discrimination and racism are still rife, particularly in the workplace.

Recent research has suggested that having an Albanian name is enough to severely limit a person's chances of finding a job, even if they have the same qualifications as a Swiss citizen.

But the future looks brighter, at least according to Ludwig Hasler, a professor who has written a book on the subject of Balkan immigration to Switzerland.

"In 30 years we shall be saying: it is great to have people from the Balkans living here. They contribute a note of melancholy colour to the prevailing greyness of our Swiss music."

Zrinski
12-30-2005, 07:16 AM
I'd say Croats are mainly excluded from this. Those responsible for growing of crime rates among these immigrants are people from Bosnia and Serbia.

Ambrosio Spinola
12-30-2005, 07:21 AM
Of course, of course Mr. Croat :D

Atlas
12-30-2005, 08:49 AM
Of course, of course Mr. Croat :D

It's probably true, I'm not going to say that there isn't any croats thugs but serbs, bosnian and albanians are worse.

Zrinski
12-30-2005, 09:39 AM
Croats are well known for their abilities to intergrate Ebusitanus. ;)
You can observe how the crime rate among people from ex-Yugoslavia in immigration rises with more refugees coming from Bosnia and Serbia after Yugoslavian break-up.

Croats have been present in Germany, Austria and Switzerland for decades now and there were never any problems...were not even mentioned.

Ace Rimmer
12-30-2005, 10:45 AM
Of course, of course Mr. Croat :D

Yes, it is true, Croatian community in Switzerland predates 1990 events,
besides, article himself is dealing with Albanians and Serbs and their numbers.

Banat
12-30-2005, 01:16 PM
What "unexpected" course this thread has taken... :rolleyes:

I have a few comments, though.

1. First, I don't see in any way that the article speaks negatively of Balkan immigrants in general. It even says they were highly respected as highly qualified experts and hard workers.

2. It is interesting how someone instantly started to point out at Serbs, although they were never mentioned in the article even as an ethnicity.

3. Somehow one gets the impression reading latter comments that only Croatian immigrants predate 1990's events, which isn't true, and which is also clearly explained in the article.

4. Am I the only one that has the impression that Kosovo Albanians are also counted into "Yugos", and immigrants from Serbia & Montenegro?

I'm not defending anyone. But, seriously, does anyone sane here think that a Croatian criminal is in some way different from a Serbian criminal? Or that a nation can be "purer" from another in that sense? If there is somebody, please try to find out who were the most troublesome immigrants from these parts after WWII. They were members of Croatian Ustasha movement, in some states even treated as terrorists, namely, in Sweden. But again, not Croats in general, because not all Croats were part of the movement, but just plain immigrants or "gastarbeiters" as other "Yugos".

Zrinski
12-30-2005, 02:48 PM
Banat no one pointed at "Serbs". It was pointed out to immigrants from Serbia and Bosnia.

And it's a fact that Croats and Slovenes were always one of the most desireable immigrants from ex-Yugoslavia since they assimilate and intergrate very quickly. Similar to Czechs and Slovaks.

Watzy
12-30-2005, 04:46 PM
Somehow one gets the impression reading latter comments that only Croatian immigrants predate 1990's events, which isn't true, and which is also clearly explained in the article.

No1. immigrants from ex-Yugoslav era were the Croats. Not exclusively, but mostly. Croats detested life in Yugoslavia and Yugoslavia opened borders to diminish their number.

2. It is interesting how someone instantly started to point out at Serbs, although they were never mentioned in the article even as an ethnicity.

"Dejan Mikic, a Zurich citizen of Serbian origin..."

Am I the only one that has the impression that Kosovo Albanians are also counted into "Yugos", and immigrants from Serbia & Montenegro?

They can be Kosovo Albanians - systematically kept in poverty and backwardness by Belgrade.

I'm not defending anyone. But, seriously, does anyone sane here think that a Croatian criminal is in some way different from a Serbian criminal?
Or that a nation can be "purer" from another in that sense?

An Anglo-American criminal can be in the same league with Afro-American criminal, but statistically blacks are more represented in crime.

If there is somebody, please try to find out who were the most troublesome immigrants from these parts after WWII. They were members of Croatian Ustasha movement, in some states even treated as terrorists, namely, in Sweden. But again, not Croats in general, because not all Croats were part of the movement, but just plain immigrants or "gastarbeiters" as other "Yugos".

Post ww2 Ustasha immigrants were politically motivated activists without any relation to commune criminals. A Serb/pro-Serb/anti-Ustasha UDBA and OZNA assassins were also troublesome, yet tolerated because of good relations with Yugoslavia. Now Germany is persecuting them for killings they committed against Croat nationalist & pro-Ustasha emigre on German soil. :)

GERMAN AUTHORITIES ISSUE INTERNATIONAL ARREST WARRANT FOR FORMER UDBA OFFICIAL PERKOVIC

The German Federal Criminal Office (BKA) in Wiesbaden has issued an international arrest warrant for Croatian national Josip Perkovic suspected of being involved in the killing of Croatian politician in exile, Stjepan Djurekovic in 1983. Perkovic is suspected of while being a high level intelligence officer for Udba, Yugoslav Secret Service, made attempts in Germany to persuade another Croat to kill two Croatian political emigrants. It is believed that Perkovic who was born in Licko Novo Selo in 1945 is on Croatian territory. Information on Perkovic is worth 5,000 euros. Another Croatian citizen also believed to be involved in the murders of Sjepan Djurekovic and another émigré Ante Djapic, Krunoslav Prates was arrested in July, 2005. Also, some media in the Diaspora have been writing that the son of Josip Perkovic, Sasha is currently the national security advisor to president Stjepan Mesic.

http://vijesti.hrt.hr/ShowArticles.aspx?ArticleId=1761

Croatian Victims of the Yugoslav Secret Police outside former Communist Yugoslavia: 1945-1990:

http://english.pravda.ru/columnists/2002/02/13/26390.html

Banat
12-30-2005, 05:45 PM
"Dejan Mikic, a Zurich citizen of Serbian origin..."

What are you, blind? This Zurich citizen was mentioned in good context, and he just points out how respected those "Yugos" were in Switzerland. Some mentioning of Serbs as ethnicity indeed. :rolleyes:

They can be Kosovo Albanians - systematically kept in poverty and backwardness by Belgrade.

Idiotic statement, totally off-topic with no other purpose but flame. I dare you to back those claims.

An Anglo-American criminal can be in the same league with Afro-American criminal, but statistically blacks are more represented in crime.

I asked for an opinion of "anyone sane" here. BTW, that's not even an answer to what I asked.

Post ww2 Ustasha immigrants were politically motivated activists without any relation to commune criminals. A Serb/pro-Serb/anti-Ustasha UDBA and OZNA assassins were also troublesome

Have you just qualified communist secret services U.D.B.A. and O.Z.N.A. as pro-Serb, or I got it all wrong? I don't know whether to laugh or cry - either way I'll shed tears.

No1. immigrants from ex-Yugoslav era were the Croats. Not exclusively, but mostly. Croats detested life in Yugoslavia and Yugoslavia opened borders to diminish their number.

Yes, followed by Gypsies, Albanians and other oppressed ethnic groups in Yugoslavia. Probably that's the reason why there are millions of Serbs abroad from that time.

Jesus, if all these topics suddenly brought up had anything to do with the main issue at all! One can't even say "Yugo" without some smart ass jumping at him and correcting that those were Croats, if it was something "good", or Serbs, if it was something "bad".

Watzy
12-30-2005, 07:36 PM
What are you, blind? This Zurich citizen was mentioned in good context, and he just points out how respected those "Yugos" were in Switzerland. Some mentioning of Serbs as ethnicity indeed. :rolleyes:

Still, a Serb specifically is named amongst 'Yugos'. I dont think Yugoslav name should bother Serbs since their state persisted on official use of that name long after Yugoslavia's breakdown.

Idiotic statement, totally off-topic with no other purpose but flame. I dare you to back those claims.

It's not a flame but a fact. I clearly remember the TV reports about the agony and the revolt of the Albanian miners of Kosova - the slave laborers of Belgrade. A sad state of the Albanians of Kosova was only a result of the long term strategy of the eradication of the Albanians from Kosova. As Vasa Cubrilovic (1897.-?), the major strategist of this policy noted:

"There is no doubt that the main cause of the unsuccessful colonization in those regions was the fact that the best land remained in the hands of the Albanians. The only possible way for our mass colonization of these regions was to confiscate the land from the Albanians."

http://www.hic.hr/books/seeurope/004e-beljo.htm#top

Have you just qualified communist secret services U.D.B.A. and O.Z.N.A. as pro-Serb, or I got it all wrong?

No, but murdering Croatian dissidents abroad was definitely a pro-Serbian move. I never heard UDBA or OZNA killing Serbo-Chetniks abroad. http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/24.gif

Probably that's the reason why there are millions of Serbs abroad from that time.

Proportionally Croats were the most numerous emigrants. This is why the majority of Croats on the entire globe live in US, South America, Canada, Australia, Germany - not in the Croatian lands.

Slavic Enforcer
12-30-2005, 08:19 PM
No, but murdering Croatian dissidents abroad was definitely a pro-Serbian move. I never heard UDBA or OZNA killing Serbo-Chetniks abroad. http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/24.gif


Did you ever hear that members of the "Serbo-Chetnik emigration" did assassinate Yugoslavian ambassadors, or that they did commit assaults on Yugoslavian institutions?

By the way, the last chief of UDBA was Mr. Josip Perkovic - a Croat.

He later became the chief of Tudjman's secret service.

Watzy
12-30-2005, 09:54 PM
Did you ever hear that members of the "Serbo-Chetnik emigration" did assassinate Yugoslavian ambassadors, or that they did commit assaults on Yugoslavian institutions?

No, but If you have info on this, share.

By the way, the last chief of UDBA was Mr. Josip Perkovic - a Croat.

I never suggested UDBA agents were exclusively Serbs, this is why I added 'pro-Serb' and 'anti-Ustasha' possibilities.

He later became the chief of Tudjman's secret service.

And his son Sasha is a "national security advisor" to Mesic - an opponent of Tudjman. Presidents and states can change, but the secret police thugs always remain the same. Gorillas are a necessity in any regime.

Slavic Enforcer
12-30-2005, 11:23 PM
No, but If you have info on this, share.


I have no info on this, but maybe now we know the reason why the UDBA prefered to fight the militant Ustasa emigrants.

I never suggested UDBA agents were exclusively Serbs, this is why I added 'pro-Serb' and 'anti-Ustasha' possibilities.

Perkovic was not just an agent, he was the chief of the Yugoslavian Secret Service!