Was St. Augustine Black?

[Boleslaw]

I'm posting this here, so as to avoid the usual anti-Catholic BS.

Lately this claim has been popping up quite a bit that St. Augustine was Black. Many Liberal Catholics seem to staunchly believe this, and Neo-Pagans often like to proclaim this in an attempt to show how Christianity is "un-Aryan" and whatnot.

Of course the main evidence to show for St. Augustine for being Black was that he was.....well African.

However, St. Augustine was from North Africa, which even today is not populated by Blacks but Arabs. Even in St. Augustine's day this was true, since he came from the area around Carthage, which was largely populated by Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, and Germanic Vandals.

St. Augustine was of Berber descent, the aboriginal people of the region before the Arab invasions. And Berbers are generally considered a Caucasoid people.

Even a few recent biographies of him have refuted the claim he was Black.

Just thought I'd clear that up for people.

[Dodge Viper]

Very true. Show me a truly spiritual Black person, and I will show you a dancing sheep with MC Hammer pants.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Well they used to have some largely negroid people there in ancient history andt he early Middle Ages, people who have since then mixed with the immigrated arabs, so it isn't 100% impossible. Nevertheless, it's highly unlikely.

[Farkas]

Liberals are trying to get religious history diversialised. In twenty years from now, they will probably claim that even Jesus was black. :deadhorse:

Of course, we can thank only one species of "people" for these pseudo-scientific contributions. We all know to who we should send flowers and a box of chocolates to :)

[Phantasm]

...
Lately this claim has been popping up quite a bit that St. Augustine was Black. Many Liberal Catholics seem to staunchly believe this, and Neo-Pagans often like to proclaim this in an attempt to show how Christianity is "un-Aryan" and whatnot.
...

Of course... everyone knows that Western Civilization and Religion was originated by Blacks and Jews!

:rofl:

Seriously though, It is really amazing how far the "agent provacateurs" will go to weaken our identity as Christians.

:(

[Jimbo Gomez]

Even if it is true, which I doubt, I don't think this would damage white Christian identity. All the races of the world can find salvation in the Bible, including the negroes in Africa.

[Keystone]

I'm posting this here, so as to avoid the usual anti-Catholic BS.

Lately this claim has been popping up quite a bit that St. Augustine was Black. Many Liberal Catholics seem to staunchly believe this, and Neo-Pagans often like to proclaim this in an attempt to show how Christianity is "un-Aryan" and whatnot.

It wouldn't (and shouldn't) matter if Augustine was as black as night. His work stands for itself. The neo-Aryans would depise him whatever color.

Meh.

[Keystone]

Even if it is true, which I doubt, I don't think this would damage white Christian identity. All the races of the world can find salvation in the Bible, including the negroes in Africa.
Indeed.
Many of the extreme white power types move towards paganism because they're using yet another avenue to separate themselves from anything non-"Aryan" or what they perceive as Jewish influence in their lives (Christianity).

Their religion becomes totally materialistic at that point, and completely useless.

[Boleslaw]

I know the Neo-Pagans would hate Augustine no matter what. St. Augustine's race has no significance in regards to his theology.

I'm merely arguing this for the sake of historical accuracy. A person hundred years from now cannot make wild claims about John Paul II being Black, or claim Joan of Arc was Chinese.

Anyways, you can the discussion on this matter at CCF:
http://www.catholic-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17279

[Keystone]

Anyways, you can the discussion on this matter at CCF:
http://www.catholic-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17279
You're arguing with people over there who don't care if you care about race regarding Catholicism.
I agree with them. It just doesn't matter theologically.

[Boleslaw]

I agree with them. It just doesn't matter theologically.

Thank you for repeating what I just said above you stupid [FLAME REMOVED ;):rolleyes:

My main beef is this stupid trend in trying to claim various early Christian figures as Black, and much of the evidence shows that no they were not. Ive even seen attempts to protray St. George at being Black, which is absurd because was most likely Greek. Seriously, what is the fucking point in this? There are legitimate Catholic figures who were Black or traditionally believed to be so, like St. Maurice.

[Cyprian]

Very true. Show me a truly spiritual Black person, and I will show you a dancing sheep with MC Hammer pants.St. Moses the Black (or Ethiopian)
A brother at Scetis committed a fault. A council was called to which Abba Moses was invited, but he refused to go to it. Then the priest sent someone to say to him, 'Come, for everyone is waiting for you.' So he got up and went. He took a leaking jug, filled it with water and carried it with him. The others came out to meet him and said to him, 'What is this, Father?' The old man said to them, 'My sins run out behind me, and I do not see them, and today I am coming to judge the errors of another.'
The magistrate heard about Abba Moses one day and he went to Scetis to see him. They told the old man. He got up and fled to the marsh. Some people met him and said to him, 'Old man, tell us where the cell of Abba Moses is.' He said to them, 'What do you want with him? He is a fool.'...(after the magistrate asked some other monks about this, they said), 'It was Abba Moses himself and it was in order not to meet you that he said that.'
One day, when the brethren were sitting beside him, he said to them, 'Look, the barbarians are coming to Scetis today; get up and flee.' They said to him, 'Abba, won't you flee too?' He said to them, 'As for me, I have been waiting for this day for many years, that the word of the Lord Christ may be fulfilled which says, "All who take the sword will perish by the sword." (Matt. 26:52) (before his conversion, Abba Moses had been a famous bandit)
Some instructions of Abba Moses
"The monk must die to his neighbour and never judge him at all, in any way whatever."
"The monk must die to everything before leaving the body, in order not to harm anyone."
Not one white person in ten thousand has humility, contrition, wisdom, courage or faith that bears comparison with that of Abba Moses, so I'll look forward to the dancing sheep with the pants.

[Hippias]

Not one white person in ten thousand has humility, contrition, wisdom, courage or faith that bears comparison with that of Abba Moses, so I'll look forward to the dancing sheep with the pants.

We don't really know if St. Moses was a negro. The Copic icons of St. Moses certainly don't depict him as one. His origins are unclear.

[Cyprian]

We don't really know if St. Moses was a negro. The Copic icons of St. Moses certainly don't depict him as one. His origins are unclear.The two titles he's known by are "The Ethiopian" and "The Black". Furthermore, at least two of the anecdotes connected with him in the collection of Desert Fathers specifically mention his skin colour ("black as ashes", is how he describes it). As for the iconographic evidence, icons aren't intended to be realistic in a naturalistic sense. Various saints look quite different in different icons, depending on where the icons are from. On the whole, there's more conclusive evidence about Moses' race than there is for the vast majority of ancient figures.

[Hippias]

The two titles he's known by are "The Ethiopian" and "The Black".

Ethiopia 1700 years ago was a very different place than it is today. The Himyarite and Sabaean peoples who lived there were semitic-speaking arabs, so it's far from obvious that "Ethiopian" was synonymous with negro.

Furthermore, at least two of the anecdotes connected with him in the collection of Desert Fathers specifically mention his skin colour ("black as ashes", is how he describes it).

That doesn't necessarily mean he was a negro, though. He could've been a dark-skinned arab.

[Templar]

He was of berber descent, at that time that area and region he hailed from was at almost "clean" berber area, with greek and roman presence.