shoutbox

[Starr]

Stupid mindless chit chat, for the most part, that drives away new members or a fun little extra, useful when you want to talk about nothing in particular?

[jcs]

Shoutbox = good times.
(longer defense will come when someone presents a good argument against the shoutbox)

[Ambrosio Spinola]

I do not see any major harm in it. It allows members to let off steam without actually making a stupid ass troll thread. Chat is of very limited durability so that even the worst crap disapears as the chat progresses. It also allows members to interact without having to go through all the sending of handles for chat programs.

I barely use it and even less read it.

[Anima Eternae]

Fix The Cpu Overload Problem Plz K Thx Bai

[Leif]

Trash it.

-Mostly chit chat.
-Sometimes obscene words are used which would [hopefully] not be allowed on the forums themselves.
-Even if a good subject does arise on the shoutbox, it quickly fades under the barrage of spam. Good subjects need to be on the forum.

[Felix the Cat]

Shoutbox would be great if it didn't slow down and periodically shut down the server. If this problem can't be solved, the Shoutbox should be removed.

(As a provisional measure, how about just disabling it for unregistered users?)

[Banat]

I second what Cowcube has just said.

[jcs]

As a provisional measure, how about just disabling it for unregistered users?
Good idea.

shoutbox would be great if it didn't slow down and periodically shut down the server.
Most likely a scripting error of some sort (doesn't happen on tNP; then again, I don't spend enough time there to notice if it did).

Mostly chit chat.
Filters mindless socializing out of threads.
Hail the shoutbox!

Sometimes obscene words are used which would [hopefully] not be allowed on the forums themselves.
Quit being a prude.
Hail the shoutbox!

Even if a good subject does arise on the shoutbox, it quickly fades under the barrage of spam. Good subjects need to be on the forum.
What is important is thinking. Musing with others on the shoutbox has inspired a few threads.
Hail the shoutbox!
Amen.

[Leif]

What is important is thinking. Musing with others on the shoutbox has inspired a few threads.

What threads have been inspired by the shoutbox?

[jcs]

This was a good shoutbox-inspired thread (http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1515)
(and I know a couple other threads of mine came from shoutbox discussions)

[Starr]

Filters mindless socializing out of threads.
Hail the shoutbox!

Yes, this is a very good point.

[jcs]

(and I know a couple other threads of mine came from shoutbox discussions)
This (http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1293) and this, to some degree (http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1938).

[Leif]

Filters mindless socializing out of threads.
Hail the shoutbox!


Yes, this is a very good point.

I would like to remind older Phora members that this is precisely why we created the Hell Forum. Must I mention what happened to the quality of the forum after?

[jcs]

I would like to remind older Phora members that this is precisely why we created the Hell Forum. Must I mention what happened to the quality of the forum after?
Fade mentioned (on the shoutbox, possibly also in his shoutbox-inspired 'forum content' thread) that the problem with the Lounge (and thus also the Hell Forum) is that people don't know how to 'turn off' the stupid. This is easier if the format of stupidity is different. With a Lounge or Hell Forum, one is posting content that will be archived on the Phora forever (by which I mean until the next hack). With the shoutbox, one shouts a word, phrase, sentence, or small paragraph that will vanish in a few moments. Face-to-face conversations differ in quality to written correspondence, and one does not alter the quality of the latter by participating in the former. Chatrooms (shoutbox) and forums are different types of communication; equating the effects of low-brow posting with the possible effects of low-brow chat on the high-brow content of the forum is nonsensical. Note that we've had the shoutbox for a while now and forum quality is no worse than during the Era Before Shouts.

[Leif]

The internet has thousands of public places to say inane, offensive, idiotic, and chatty things. Do we need another on THE PHORA?

[jcs]

The internet has thousands of public places to say inane, offensive, idiotic, and chatty things. Do we need another on THE PHORA?
The internet has thousands of public places to say intelligent things as well. Do we need the Phora at all?
--yes, because Phorites neither post nor chat elsewhere.

Plus, as said, the shoutbox can be stimulating. Anarch/Lucifer, vaszoly (and a few other members who don't come to mind), and I often have/had intelligent discussions on the shoutbox. A few months ago, I recall an argument for a high-brow and low-brow shoutbox, as we were 'spamming' the shoutbox with something more than 'inane, offensive, idiotic, chatty things.'

Just last night Blaphbee, Hannify, and I were chatting about Heidegger and Derrida, along with other things. No thread was necessary to archive a discussion about Heidegger's writing ability and book recommendations, but the shoutbox was a good medium for such communication.

[brigadier Biggles]

if it wernt for the shoutbox this forum would now have a million new threads and a billion new posts and be in the beginnings of an investigation from the NIMH.

[OVERWATCH]

I see that someone has beat me to this topic :p

The shoutbox is fine, so long as folks use it wisely. Our host is a little meagre on the use of the server CPU, so lots of messages in rapid succession will generate a high load message.

When posting in the shoutbox, use a single shout for a message instead of spreading it over multiple shouts.

Spamming the shoutbox with crap, such as repetitve emoticons, will no longer be tolerated and I'll prune all of your shouts ;)

Those who repeatedly don't exercise good judgement in shouts will likely be temp or perm banned from shouting.

I like the shoutbox and vote to keep it, for reasons which have already been stated. If we are judicious with the way we use it, there should be far less CPU quota problems.

AFAIK, there's no way to optimise the script of vbshout to fix this problem- it's a server issue.

Another solution, should this not work, would be to make the shoutbox available only to an elite members gruppe. Something to think about.

[jcs]

No-one will see these things because they were done in the shoutbox. An entire discussion has been wasted.
I said something to this effect after the hack: if someone says something intelligent, it will be remembered; we need not archive everything.

Again, this is all lost material.
Life is flux.

We do not need a chat-room on The Phora.
Yes we do.

[Fade the Butcher]

Shoutbox would be great if it didn't slow down and periodically shut down the server. If this problem can't be solved, the Shoutbox should be removed.

(As a provisional measure, how about just disabling it for unregistered users?)Nothing much I can add to that. I agree.

[Blaphbee]

The shoutbox itself isn't the problem; it's the same question as was raised by the Forum Content thread: What kind of content do the users want? What kind of quality do they wish to see out of this forum?

It isn't up to the administrators, or up to an arbitrary set of rules, or a constant police presence of watchdogs. It's up to the userbase itself to provide the content. Whether or not this content ends up being worthwhile, it's all in their hands.

This is just like a debate over whether guns or alcohol or drugs are the problem with society. It isn't the means, but the people who employ them, who are the problem.

[OVERWATCH]

The shoutbox itself isn't the problem; it's the same question as was raised by the Forum Content thread: What kind of content do the users want? What kind of quality do they wish to see out of this forum?

It isn't up to the administrators, or up to an arbitrary set of rules, or a constant police presence of watchdogs. It's up to the userbase itself to provide the content. Whether or not this content ends up being worthwhile, it's all in their hands.

This is just like a debate over whether guns or alcohol or drugs are the problem with society. It isn't the means, but the people who employ them, who are the problem.

That's pretty much the case, but anarchy doesn't work. The majority of folks here are sharp enough; I have confidence in the overall membership's ability to be reasonable; for the small minority of others, however, there needs to be enforcement or else 2% of the population ruins everything for everyone else- just like in the realworld.

[Blaphbee]

Look, to put it simply, forum quality has become an issue, with some of the administrators chiming in on the issue. Some people are saying they want a higher quality forum, free (or at least, free-er) of the spamming and stupidity. Some realize that you can't be serious all the time, as with any community that has a degree of familiarity to it, there will always be some manner of light-hearted dicking around. Either let the shoutbox be an outlet for this, or else scrap it entirely, and keep the Lounge.

Fade brings up the point about Lounge-style posts becoming the norm when this happens. Don't let it become so by descending to the level of "all-Lounge, all the time" posts, and have a standard which you yourself utilize. (Not speaking directly to anyone, but to all, including myself) If you want to screw around, keep it out of serious threads, use the shoutbox, or find a forum better suited to your needs.

In a discussion about overall quality of a forum, you can't let special interest groups (or the equivalent thereof in forum terms) dictate the desired direction into a high-quality forum, passively or actively.

This post itself is kind of distracted right now, and doesn't say all I want it too, but some of the points are there. I also realize there is much to dissect about it, so I'll try and sort it out later into coherency.

[Leif]

I said something to this effect after the hack: if someone says something intelligent, it will be remembered; we need not archive everything.

I archive most of my own posts in any case, my point is this: because your discussion was on the shoutbox, how many users actually saw it? Three? Four? Anyone who wasn't participating in that discussion probably didn't see it. That is the loss.

The shoutbox itself isn't the problem; it's the same question as was raised by the Forum Content thread: What kind of content do the users want? What kind of quality do they wish to see out of this forum?

It isn't up to the administrators, or up to an arbitrary set of rules, or a constant police presence of watchdogs. It's up to the userbase itself to provide the content. Whether or not this content ends up being worthwhile, it's all in their hands.

This is just like a debate over whether guns or alcohol or drugs are the problem with society. It isn't the means, but the people who employ them, who are the problem.

I agree with this, but I would add one thing. The reason why The Phora had to get rid of the Hell forum was because it enticed people to post flames and garbage. If you put cupcakes and a fat person in the same room, sooner or later those cupcakes will be eaten. You can't make everyone post high-brow, but you can take away their temptation to do otherwise.

[Starr]

Fade brings up the point about Lounge-style posts becoming the norm when this happens. Don't let it become so by descending to the level of "all-Lounge, all the time" posts, and have a standard which you yourself utilize. (Not speaking directly to anyone, but to all, including myself) If you want to screw around, keep it out of serious threads, use the shoutbox, or find a forum better suited to your needs.

I would think, or at least hope, that the majority of the posters here would get bored very quickly with "all lounge, all the time" style posts, and that in itself would prevent this from happening.

I agree with this, but I would add one thing. The reason why The Phora had to get rid of the Hell forum was because it enticed people to post flames and garbage. If you put cupcakes and a fat person in the same room, sooner or later those cupcakes will be eaten. You can't make everyone post high-brow, but you can take away their temptation to do otherwise.

If something like this were to start happening just get rid of the posts or threads in question. If people start having their posts and threads deleted, they probably won't see much of a reason to continue to flame and post inappropriate garbage if they realize it is just going to be trashed anyway.

[Blaphbee]

To Ymir: I see your point, but outright fascism isn't always met with success, especially if you don't have a large userbase, or a steady influx of possible new users to offset the others who leave because their "freedom" is taken away from them to cause useless shit. Ego cases like that are good riddance, but it's just as unreasonable to expect everyone here who is reasonably confortable with one another to be stuffy tight-asses who never crack a smile. As long as they don't let it become a quality problem (as it has, due to this question even being discussed), it won't be a problem. It IS possible to have fun while still maintaining quality.

[Blaphbee]

I would think, or at least hope, that the majority of the posters here would get bored very quickly with "all lounge, all the time" style posts, and that in itself would prevent this from happening.
As would I, but since this is still being discussed, it obviously runs deeper than either of us imagine.

I'm not saying either, that there should be no restriction whatsoever of the posters, but there should be enough that the point is driven home that bullshit isn't tolerated. Act like fucking adults, and you have a good forum. Act like moronic teenagers, and you have a large boulder to push up a hill for eternity.

[Blaphbee]

If something like this were to start happening just get rid of the posts or threads in question. If people start having their posts and threads deleted, they probably won't see much of a reason to continue to flame and post inappropriate garbage.
Damn you and your editting.

As long as this were to happen openly and not mysteriously, people won't have their panties in a twist over "Nazi moderators!!1!" and whatever other inane garbage they typically start moaning about. Make examples, tell people why the bullshit was erased, and people get the message. If it isn't done for personal vindictive reasons, then people will inevitably understand.

[jcs]

because your discussion was on the shoutbox, how many users actually saw it? Three? Four? Anyone who wasn't participating in that discussion probably didn't see it. That is the loss.
Very little of the content of high-brow shoutbox conversations is of interest to those who are not participating in the conversations, being opinionated meaninglessness:

"Derrida could write. He's the only philosopher after Nietzsche who seemed to be able to write well." "I think Heidegger wrote beautifully." "I haven't read much Heidegger" "Being and Time is an ass-kicking, but you might as well give it a shot, if only for the challenge." "He was still too analytical in Being and Time. I like his work after he moved beyond Husserl." "What would you recommend?" "Introduction to Metaphysics." "I have no self-control. I just ordered that and Derrida's On Spirit." "lol." "Warum gibt es Alles und viel[something] etwas nichts? Das ist die Frage." "Why is there all and not nothing? that is the question? did I translate that correctly?" "are you familiar with Boehme? he was an influence on heidegger. I have a post somewhere about him." "could you find a link to it please?" "here." "I like anything that mentions 'abyss.'" "yeah, usually turns out interesting."

Do we really need a thread for that? The fast-paced conversational aspect of the shoutbox is conducive to such discussions, which aren't worth making into threads. It's a different means of sharing thought, and different type of thought is shared--something less substantial, but still potentially worth-while.

[Leif]

To Ymir: I see your point, but outright fascism isn't always met with success, especially if you don't have a large userbase, or a steady influx of possible new users to offset the others who leave because their "freedom" is taken away from them to cause useless shit. Ego cases like that are good riddance, but it's just as unreasonable to expect everyone here who is reasonably confortable with one another to be stuffy tight-asses who never crack a smile. As long as they don't let it become a quality problem (as it has, due to this question even being discussed), it won't be a problem. It IS possible to have fun while still maintaining quality.

One shouldn't delete/edit posts except in extreme circumstances. I just advocate getting rid of mediums that tend to create mostly spam and flames.

Very little of the content of high-brow shoutbox conversations is of interest to those who are not participating in the conversations, being opinionated meaninglessness:

I stand corrected; there is nothing worth keeping in the shoutbox.

[Blaphbee]

One shouldn't delete/edit posts except in extreme circumstances. I just advocate getting rid of mediums that tend to create mostly spam and flames.
(raises eyebrow)

Um, extreme circumstances? Why only in extreme circumstances? They're just messages on a forum. If they aren't contributing jackshit, or are derailing what could be a serious discussion, or are only being posted to increase a user's post count (LOL), why should they be kept? There's more than enough shit on the internet as it is; why add to it?

[Fade the Butcher]

I would think, or at least hope, that the majority of the posters here would get bored very quickly with "all lounge, all the time" style posts, and that in itself would prevent this from happening.We had a problem with this last summer (not the first time this has happened either). The Lounge and Opposition Forum came to dominate the rest of the board. We have more pressing problems at the moment, though. We need to get more people posting and start building our membership back up.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Anyone who wants a quality forum should be happy we have a shoutbox that acts like a steam valve for our membership. Wanna vent something quick? Wanna make some funny remark that really does not warant a thread? Wanna get Fade to answer something without sending PMs or making those "@Johndoe" threads filled with "Get on Yahoo" posts, etc, etc...

The Shoutbox rises automatically the forum´s overall post quality. Yes, we would have more posts without the shoutbox..but what sort of posts would those be?

[Lenny]

What I'd like to see changed:

The shoutbox archives should have 20 shouts per page instead of 10
The top 20 shouters should be displayed instead of the top 10

[Fade the Butcher]

Umm . . . Where did it go? It was there a few minutes ago.