Austria stalls on extradition of 92-year-old Asner

[Ace Rimmer]

Milivoj Asner sent Jews and Serbs to the camps. But will he escape justice?

Austria stalls on extradition after Nazi-hunter highlights actions of 92-year-old in wartime Croatia

Ian Traynor in Pozega, Croatia
Friday November 25, 2005
The Guardian


The fireman's hall on Primorska Street, a crimson and white building with a large Croatian flag, is a centre of Pozega's community life, rented out for wedding parties and operettas.
On Christmas Day 64 years ago the hall was not a place to party. Around 150 of this country town's Jews were rounded up, penned here, robbed of their valuables, and put on cattle wagons bound for the concentration camps of fascist Croatia's Ustasha state. They all perished, along with hundreds of other local Jews and Serbs. By 1942 the town's entire Jewish community, the oldest in the central and eastern part of Croatia called Slavonia, were wiped out.

The police chief in what was then a small town of 7,000 was a young Zagreb-trained lawyer called Milivoj Asner. Now 92 and living in the southern Austrian city of Klagenfurt, Mr Asner both denies and indirectly confirms his role in the pogroms. "I was just the town police chief, dealing with traffic offences, petty crime, thievery," he told the Guardian. "I did not hate Jews as such. I have many Jewish friends."
But for Efraim Zuroff, the Israeli-American Nazi-hunter who has inherited the mission of the late Simon Wiesenthal, the Asner case is at the centre of his Operation Last Chance - his campaign, mainly in eastern and southern post-communist Europe, to bring ageing war crimes suspects to justice before they die. "As Simon would say," said Mr Zuroff, "he who ignores the murderers of the past paves the way for the murderers of the future. But it's very difficult in eastern Europe for these post-communist societies to face up to their complicity in genocide."

Suspects

As head of the Jerusalem-based Simon Wiesenthal Centre, Mr Zuroff is trailing dozens of Nazi suspects from Estonia to Romania to Australia. The copious documents unearthed by a young Croatian amateur historian on the Asner case, said Mr Zuroff, makes this case the most promising of more than 80 he has forwarded to authorities in nine countries. "This case is highly important," he said. "It's fully documented. There's an extradition request, there's an arrest warrant. It's the nearest we've got to a trial."

After heading Pozega's police in 1941-42 Mr Asner disappeared amid the chaos of the early post-war years, fleeing Croatia, where the victorious communist authorities quickly named him as a war criminal, to Austria where he obtained Austrian citizenship.

And that was that for the next 50 years until Alen Budaj, then a 19-year-old amateur historian from Pozega, started researching the fate of the town's Jewish community and obtained documents allegedly incriminating the former police chief. He discovered Mr Asner had been living prosperously in Austria since 1945, but had returned to his hometown, Daruvar, near Pozega, in the early 90s when the extreme nationalist President Franjo Tudjman was in power. Mr Asner felt welcome.

"It all started 10 years ago when I went to the Jewish cemetery in Pozega and saw what kind of wretched state it was in," said Mr Budaj. "What was awful was that no one talked about what happened to the Jews here. The final straw was that this cemetery was being destroyed. That stirred my emotions and I started digging. Everywhere I looked Asner's name kept cropping up in connection with the Holocaust. I was shocked when I found out that he was alive and living in Croatia."

Mr Asner blamed his current ordeal on the dogged young researcher. "Budaj is nothing but a vagabond, never done a day's work in his life. He's a Jew and because he's a Jew people think he's decent. He's an agent of Wiesenthal and Zuroff. These types don't impress me."

Mr Budaj compiled 100 pages of wartime documents, and hunted down contemporary witnesses. He has papers ordering deportations of Serbs and Jews from Pozega signed by Mr Asner. Asked about them, Mr Asner first said the signatures could have been forged. Then he said that he was only following orders.

"I couldn't have said no, otherwise I would have lost my job. It was mostly Serbs, not Jews. The ministry ordered them deported, my bosses at the interior ministry in Zagreb. If I had said no, I would have been on the street."

Hundreds of Jews and Serbs were herded into three collection points in Pozega before being sent to the camps. Most of the males went to the notorious Ustasha camp at Jasenovac, not far from Pozega.

"The Ustasha played their role in the Final Solution," said Mr Zuroff. "Asner was an important cog in the Ustasha administration which aimed to wipe out the minorities."

Armed with Mr Budaj's dossier, last year Mr Zuroff presented the evidence to Croatia's President, Stipe Mesic, himself a lawyer. According to those present the president ordered Mladen Bajic, the Croatian chief prosecutor, to look into the case and said that Mr Asner should not be allowed to leave the country.

The same day Mr Asner packed his car and fled back to Austria. Mr Asner's Pozega lawyer, Karlo Loncar, maintains this was coincidence, that Mr Asner was "on holiday". Mr Asner called this nonsense: "I got warnings from friends that they were trying to discredit me. I'm 92 years old and I just want to have peace and quiet. I was in Daruvar for 10 years and then all of a sudden this Jew comes along and because he's a Jew everyone believes him."

Black hole

Mr Asner clearly feels safer in Austria. "Austria is a black hole when it comes to Nazi war criminals," said Mr Zuroff, They have not convicted a Nazi in 30 years. And it's not for a lack of Nazis."

After investigating for months prosecutors in Pozega are edging towards a trial, although no charges have yet been brought. The Croatian interior ministry has placed Mr Asner on its wanted list and recently asked Austria to extradite him. It refused because it does not extradite Austrian citizens, and officials there are conducting their owninquiry, albeit dragging their feet, claiming all the Croatian papers have to be translated. The Austrian justice ministry also said suspected crimes may have expired under statutes of limitations unless there is evidence that Mr Asner personally killed or explicitly ordered killing.

"There's a lot of evidence of war crimes in this dossier," said Zoran Pusic, head of a Zagreb human rights committee involved in the case. "But the extradition issue is a problem."

Mr Asner said he has been questioned by the Austrian authorities "at least 30 times". The Austrians received a Croatian warrant, but it has been declined, he added. Mr Zuroff said that if the Austrians neither try him nor extradite him, Croatia may try Mr Asner in absentia.

Given the advanced age of the 81 suspects identified by Mr Zuroff and his east European researchers, time is of the essence. In the three years since Operation Last Chance started two suspects in Latvia and Romania have died. "These people don't deserve a free pass, tending their roses, spending their retirement with their grandchildren," said Mr Zuroff. "With every day that goes by they are closer to escaping justice."

Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/austria/article/0,,1650492,00.html)

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Nice Number plate Gromovnik!

[Ace Rimmer]

Nice Number plate Gromovnik!

:D

..........

[Ace Rimmer]

SUSPECTED CROATIAN NAZI WAR CRIMINAL LOSES AUSTRIAN NATIONALITY - NEWSPAPER

ZAGREB, Feb 2 (Hina) - Milivoj Asner, who is wanted by Croatia for crimes he allegedly committed in the Second World War, is no longer an Austrian national, the Austrian newspaper Der Standard said on Thursday.

"Through his active efforts to regain Croatian nationality, he has lost Austrian nationality ex lege," the head of the Corinthia provincial government department for nationality affairs, Gerhard Hauptmann, told the daily.

"We have relayed this view to the public prosecutor," he added.

In the early 1990s Asner applied for and was granted Croatian nationality. He later filed an application to retain Austrian nationality, but withheld from the Austrian authorities that in the meantime he had acquired Croatian nationality. Austrian nationality cannot be retained in that way, so Asner is no longer an Austrian national, Hauptmann said.

Asner served as chief of police under the Nazi-style Ustasha regime in Pozega, 180 kilometres east of Zagreb, in 1941 and 1942. He is suspected of having committed war crimes against civilians, mainly Jews and Serbs.

After the collapse of the Ustasha regime in 1945, Asner fled to Austria where he lived peacefully until 1991 when he returned to Daruvar, Croatia.

His criminal past was revealed by an amateur historian from Pozega, Alen Budaj, while he was researching the history of the Jews in his home town. In mid-2004 he submitted his evidence to the chief public prosecutor, who initiated an investigation into the case before the Pozega County Court. At the same time Asner fled to Austria and is now reportedly living in his son's apartment in Klagenfurt.

In July 2005 the Croatian authorities issued an international warrant for his arrest. Two months later Croatia requested his extradition, but the Austrian Ministry of Justice said that the request could not be granted because under the Austrian law Austrian nationals cannot be extradited to other countries. The Austrian ministry had announced it would issue an indictment against Asner by the end of 2005, but that did not happen.

(Hina) (http://www.hina.hr/nws-bin/genews.cgi?TOP=hot&NID=ehot/politika/H2024445.4yc)

[Slavic Enforcer]

Too bad that the Partisans didn't catch and eliminate him.

[Watzy]

Too bad that the Partisans didn't catch and eliminate him.

Too bad Astner, Sakic and the rest of the old-guard failed to eliminate more trash while they had the chance. Today they would have no trouble with false witnesses and biased persecutors. :mad:

Blind compassion and mercy toward the enemy was always the major Achilles’ heel of the Ustasha troopers. :(

[Watzy]

This Jewish ratface tipped Astner to Wiesentahls gang.http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sauer/angry-smiley-012.gifhttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sauer/angry-smiley-037.gif

http://www.globus.com.hr/Clanak.aspx?BrojID=61&ClanakID=1206

[Slavic Enforcer]

Blind compassion and mercy toward the enemy was always the major Achilles’ heel of the Ustasha troopers. :(

We can compare it to the compassion and mercy of the SS.

[Watzy]

We can compare it to the compassion and mercy of the SS.

Rubbish! Ustashe saved a lot of innocent people infront of the racial laws of the Nazis, and their Christian samaritanism was repaid by Bleiburg massacre, UDBA terror and serbo-judaic hunt on veterans - such as this one. :mad:

[Slavic Enforcer]

Rubbish! Ustashe saved a lot of innocent people infront of the racial laws of the Nazis, and their Christian samaritanism was repaid by Bleiburg massacre, UDBA terror and serbo-judaic hunt on veterans - such as this one. :mad:

Ustasas were Good Samaritans? :rofl:

OK Zvaci, I give up.

[Watzy]

Don't tell me you actually believe the verdicts based upon eye-witnesses from Serbia or to the Bolshevik hanging courts that executed every NDH state official they get their hands on? http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/24.gif

Haven't it occurred to you that Astner might be innocent?! He was a police officer by position without any connection to the concentration camps, Serbs or Jews - a mere fact he was Ustasha doesn't mean he was a butcher from Serbo-Communist propaganda pamphlets!

Suppose he is completely innocent - do you honestly thing the Croatian court can afford to release him without exposing Croatian state to Serbo-Jewish propaganda about the fascist nature of the new Croat state?

It's a political trial and Astner is a sacrificial scapegoat!

In any case, I hold a Jew rat-boy responsible for this injustice directed against our fellow man. Silencing him would not be a murder but an act of patriotism, just like in Levar's case. Same goes for all the other Judas!

[Slavic Enforcer]

Don't tell me you actually believe the verdicts based upon eye-witnesses from Serbia or to the Bolshevik hanging courts that executed every NDH state official they get their hands on? http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/24.gif

Imagine that the Ustasas were on the side of the winners after the war.
Do you think they would'nt had done the same?

By the way, Ustasa members who were no 'high animals' and did not commit attrocities got the chance to change the sides/uniforms (during the war).

Haven't it occurred to you that Astner might be innocent?! He was a police officer by position without any connection to the concentration camps, Serbs or Jews - a mere fact he was Ustasha doesn't mean he was a butcher from Serbo-Communist propaganda pamphlets!

No, but he still could've been a criminal. It's the job of the court to establish if he's guilty or not.

Suppose he is completely innocent - do you honestly thing the Croatian court can afford to release him without exposing Croatian state to Serbo-Jewish propaganda about the fascist nature of the new Croat state?

There will always be some propaganda against Croatia, no matter if they release him or not.
And yes, I believe the Croatian court can afford to release him.

In any case, I hold a Jew rat-boy responsible for this injustice directed against our fellow man. Silencing him would not be a murder but an act of patriotism, just like in Levar's case. Same goes for all the other Judas!

Levar was a brave Croatian soldier.

Do you know that he came from a Ustasa family (unlike the "great" Tihomir Oreskovic, who's descendant of Partisans)?

[Watzy]

Imagine that the Ustasas were on the side of the winners after the war.
Do you think they wouldn't had done the same?

True, but here's an important catch - the Ustashas would have done it for the future of Croatia, while the partisans did it for the future of Yugoslavia. It's a big difference.

By the way, Ustasa members who were no 'high animals' and did not commit atrocities got the chance to change the sides/uniforms (during the war).

Such possibility was opened only for Chetniks - the most opportunistic side of the war. The mass entrance of the Chetniks can explain partisan atrocities in the final stage of the war. Ustashe were the elite of the Croatian army, they believed in what the fought fanatically and did not changed sides.

No, but he still could've been a criminal. It's the job of the court to establish if he's guilty or not.

So now it's up to court to decide... and what happened to "Too bad that the Partisans didn't catch and eliminate him." :rolleyes: :mad:

There will always be some propaganda against Croatia, no matter if they release him or not.
And yes, I believe the Croatian court can afford to release him.

I strongly disagree. The supreme court is in the hands of Mesic who recently decorated a known Partizan mass murderer Marko Belinic.

Levar was a brave Croatian soldier.

And Judas was an apostle before he turned into a traitor.

Do you know that he came from a Ustasa family (unlike the "great" Tihomir Oreskovic, who's descendant of Partisans)?

Merits or the guilt cannot be passed on from father to son.

[Slavic Enforcer]

True, but here's an important catch - the Ustashas would have done it for the future of Croatia, while the partisans did it for the future of Yugoslavia. It's a big difference.

In my opinion the Ustasa has not proven to work in the interest and for the future of Croatia. They gave parts of Croatia to Italy and Hungary, remember?
I would even go so far to say that they nearly destroyed the future of Croatia.

NDH was part of the 'Axis', and the Partisans and their (and our) great leader, the Croat Josip Broz Tito, were the only ones who did really fight the occupying troops.
Without them, who knows, maybe Croatia would have dissapeared from the map after the war.

Such possibility was opened only for Chetniks - the most opportunistic side of the war. The mass entrance of the Chetniks can explain partisan atrocities in the final stage of the war. Ustashe were the elite of the Croatian army, they believed in what the fought fanatically and did not changed sides.

Every 'normal' soldier who did not commit atrocities (especially against Partisans) got the chance to join the Partisans. At least for a while.

It's true that the Ustasas were more fanatically than the Cetniks. Their massmurderings are a proof for that.

So now it's up to court to decide... and what happened to "Too bad that the Partisans didn't catch and eliminate him." :rolleyes: :mad:

Well, it was war.. and in the end, he was just a collaborator.

And Judas was an apostle before he turned into a traitor.

On the other hand, Judas Priest did never betray their fans! :D

Merits or the guilt cannot be passed on from father to son.

I agree.

[Watzy]

In my opinion the Ustasa has not proven to work in the interest and for the future of Croatia. They gave parts of Croatia to Italy and Hungary, remember?

Speaking about the territories, Croatia as a mere satrapy of Karađorđevic was larger than Tito's Croatia, and was smaller only during Ottoman conquests. Tito gave a lot more ethnic territories of the Croats away in respect to Pavelic, and unlike Pavelic who had no army to resist foreign powers, Tito gave these territories away on a peak of his power, while commanding a large and victorious army.

Socialist Republic of Croatia wasn't even a constitutive state of the Croats alone but of Serbs as well. After the WW2 Tito (unlike Pavelic) had a free choice and unique historic possibility to lay a strong founds to a strong and self-standing Croatia. Instead he subjected his country and his people to Belgrade, deprived Croatia of it's ethnic and historic territories, destroyed the territorial compactness of Croatia and designed it's frontiers in a vulnerable shape of a crescent.

And you DARE to accuse Pavelic for not opposing the most powerful block of contemporary Europe (while at the same time having to deal with Serb rebellion, serb forces still loyal to Royal Yugoslavia and partisans) while YOUR red dictator was not capable of dealing with one single Balkan nation that stood on the way of Croatian power and freedom!?!?!

One would have to think hard when were the Croats in deeper shits: under Turks, under Royal Serbia or under Tito (a Croat of power who had a chance to change things).

I would even go so far to say that they nearly destroyed the future of Croatia.

Nonsense. Other countries had fascists and collaborators as well - but they lacked a traitor of Tito's destructive proportion, and that's what nearly destroyed Croatia's future! 1945. he placed his country on it's knees 1990 his (Serbian) successors almost placed it in it's grave.

NDH was part of the 'Axis', and the Partisans and their (and our) great leader, the Croat Josip Broz Tito, were the only ones who did really fight the occupying troops.

Partisan Croats from Dalmatia and Istria fought the occupiers for their own ethnic freedom, while Tito was fighting for Yugoslavia all along. After the war he even turned against other powerful Croats amongst the partisans like Andrija Hebrang. Those Croats were his oldest comrades since the anti-fascist struggle took place in Croatia, not in Serbia.

Without them, who knows, maybe Croatia would have disappeared from the map after the war.

So, the only reason we should be grateful to this 'great' and 'our' leader is the fact he had enough 'mercy' not to erase us from the face of Europe's map. http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/24.gif

Reasoning like that one could also worship Aleksandar Karadjordjevic or Adolf Hitler for not committing the same.

Every 'normal' soldier who did not commit atrocities (especially against Partisans) got the chance to join the Partisans. At least for a while.

Ustasha soldiers weren't classified as 'normal', not even were their families, but on the other hand the whole battalions of raving-mad Chetniks were 'normal' enough to be accepted into the Partisan gang - when Chetniks were absolutely certain Germany is loosing the war.

It's true that the Ustasas were more fanatically than the Cetniks. Their massmurderings are a proof for that.

After all, most of their victims (except those who ended up persecuted on account of racial laws) were illegal rebels deserving no sympathy or compassion. They were executed according to the international convention of war from 1903. as illegal guerilla fighters/bandits.

Well, it was war.. and in the end, he was just a collaborator.

Did the French resistance butchered thousands and thousands of Petains collaborationist soldiers along with their families without a trial like the Yugoslav apes under Tito did? http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/jasons_smilie/thumbsdown.gif

[Slavic Enforcer]

Speaking about the territories, Croatia as a mere satrapy of Karađorđevic was larger than Tito's Croatia, and was smaller only during Ottoman conquests. Tito gave a lot more ethnic territories of the Croats away in respect to Pavelic, and unlike Pavelic who had no army to resist foreign powers, Tito gave these territories away on a peak of his power, while commanding a large and victorious army.

Not Tito made the decisions what would happen after the war, but the 'big three' (USA/Great Britain/Soviet Union). Tito didn't even want to give Trst (Trieste), but at the end he must.

And between 1918-1941 Croatia was just a Yugoslavian province with a governor.
There was no Republic of Croatia because there were no republics.

Socialist Republic of Croatia wasn't even a constitutive state of the Croats alone but of Serbs as well. After the WW2 Tito (unlike Pavelic) had a free choice and unique historic possibility to lay a strong founds to a strong and self-standing Croatia. Instead he subjected his country and his people to Belgrade, deprived Croatia of it's ethnic and historic territories, destroyed the territorial compactness of Croatia and designed it's frontiers in a vulnerable shape of a crescent.

I did never say that he was a (Croatian) Nationalist. He was a Communist, but even as Communist he did more good to Croatia than Pavelic.
The constitution of 1974 did intend Croatia as independent in the case of Yugoslavia's break off.

And Dalmatia is definitely more a historic territory of Croatia than the East of Bosnia or Zemun. I hope we agree here.

And you DARE to accuse Pavelic for not opposing the most powerful block of contemporary Europe (while at the same time having to deal with Serb rebellion, serb forces still loyal to Royal Yugoslavia and partisans) while YOUR red dictator was not capable of dealing with one single Balkan nation that stood on the way of Croatian power and freedom!?!?!

I accuse Pavelic for making an obedient servant of Croatia and for the genocidal charakter of NDH, whose victims were also many Croats.

In 1945, Ustasas and Cetniks did flee together (like ratts) from the Partisans, so better don't talk about Partisan-Chetnik friendship.

One would have to think hard when were the Croats in deeper shits: under Turks, under Royal Serbia or under Tito (a Croat of power who had a chance to change things).

Sane people don't have to think about that.

Partisan Croats from Dalmatia and Istria fought the occupiers for their own ethnic freedom, while Tito was fighting for Yugoslavia all along. After the war he even turned against other powerful Croats amongst the partisans like Andrija Hebrang. Those Croats were his oldest comrades since the anti-fascist struggle took place in Croatia, not in Serbia.

Such things happen in the best families. Do you think Pavelic was any better?

So, the only reason we should be grateful to this 'great' and 'our' leader is the fact he had enough 'mercy' not to erase us from the face of Europe's map. http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/24.gif

No, but because he didn't allow others to erase us from the map.

Ustasha soldiers weren't classified as 'normal', not even were their families, but on the other hand the whole battalions of raving-mad Chetniks were 'normal' enough to be accepted into the Partisan gang - when Chetniks were absolutely certain Germany is loosing the war.

Well, the head of the Cetniks (Draza Mihailovic) has been executed. I'd say that speaks for itself.

After all, most of their victims (except those who ended up persecuted on account of racial laws) were illegal rebels deserving no sympathy or compassion. They were executed according to the international convention of war from 1903. as illegal guerilla fighters/bandits.

Yeah, and Jasenovac and Stara Gradiska were health resorts, right?

Did the French resistance butchered thousands and thousands of Petains collaborationist soldiers along with their families without a trial like the Yugoslav apes under Tito did? http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/jasons_smilie/thumbsdown.gif

Petain's army was harmless compared to our collaborators.

And stop with this "along with their families", we know who the butchers of whole families were.

[Watzy]

Not Tito made the decisions what would happen after the war, but the 'big three' (USA / Great Britain / Soviet Union). Tito didn't even want to give Trst (Trieste), but at the end he must.

External powers weren't interested in the internal divisions of Yugoslavia, nobody forced Tito to give Neum (part of Dalmatia) to Bosnia and to split Croatian territory in half. Croatia was the only republic of ex-Yu. divided in half. The same goes for Hertzegovina, Croat ethnic areas in Bosnia, Boka Kotorska and Srijem.

I did never say that he was a (Croatian) Nationalist. He was a Communist, but even as Communist he did more good to Croatia than Pavelic.

Like a good little Tito-boy you repeat your agenda over and over with little facts to support it. :nono:

The constitution of 1974 did intend Croatia as independent in the case of Yugoslavia's break off.

Not quite. It allowed 'the right of the peoples' to secede.

And Dalmatia is definitely more a historic territory of Croatia than the East of Bosnia or Zemun. I hope we agree here.

Zemun is as Croatian as Split or Zagreb.

I accuse Pavelic for making an obedient servant of Croatia...

While at the same time admitting how: "Not Tito made the decisions what would happen after the war, but the 'big three' (USA / Great Britain / Soviet Union)."

In 1945, Ustasas and Cetniks did flee together (like ratts) from the Partisans, so better don't talk about Partisan-Chetnik friendship.

Ustashe fled into Austria, and Chetniks fled into Partisans (where they belong).

Sane people don't have to think about that.

Sane people care about their country, red anti-nationalists and mutts destroy it confederated with Soros and EU.

Such things happen in the best families. Do you think Pavelic was any better?

Did Pavelic killed his bloodbrothers in order to replace them with ex-Chetnik Serbs?

No, but because he didn't allow others to erase us from the map.

Serbs are 'others' you silly Yugo git and they almost erased us from the map because traitor Titio made it possible!

Well, the head of the Cetniks (Draza Mihailovic) has been executed. I'd say that speaks for itself.

No it doesn't. How can the death of one single fur-hat serve as a compensation for a systematic slaughter of thousands killed by Chetniks in Banovina, Kordun, Lika, Dalmatia and Bosnia? Why the members of the Chetnik army and other serbian collaborators weren't slaughtered ALONG WITH THEIR FAMILIES like Domobran and Ustasa martyrs of Bleiburg and Jazovka's were?

Yeah, and Jasenovac and Stara Gradiska were health resorts, right?

Jasenovac was in use after communists won the war - producing Croat bones and later serving as a tool for the anti-Croat propaganda. Not even Jews and Anglos did such a monstrous thing to the Germans like the Yugo-communist apes did the Croats!

Petain's army was harmless compared to our collaborators.

Perhaps because our 'collaborators' had a lot more reasons to 'collaborate' than the French. No country in Europe had the worse kind of Communists than Croatia!http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/sauer/angry-smiley-050.gif

And stop with this "along with their families", we know who the butchers of whole families were.

Indeed we do! 410 of known mass graves (Jazovka's) were inspected by 400 of forensic experts (only in Slovenia). 300-350 thousands of Croats were thrown into the pits - not even Stalin and Hitler managed to kill so many people in so short period of time!

[Banat]

Croatia was the only republic of ex-Yu. divided in half. The same goes for Hertzegovina, Croat ethnic areas in Bosnia, Boka Kotorska and Srijem.

Zemun is as Croatian as Split or Zagreb.

Ustashe fled into Austria, and Chetniks fled into Partisans (where they belong).

Serbs are 'others' you silly Yugo git and they almost erased us from the map because traitor Titio made it possible!

Jasenovac was in use after communists won the war - producing Croat bones and later serving as a tool for the anti-Croat propaganda. Not even Jews and Anglos did such a monstrous thing to the Germans like the Yugo-communist apes did the Croats!

No country in Europe had the worse kind of Communists than Croatia!

Indeed we do! 410 of known mass graves (Jazovka's) were inspected by 400 of forensic experts (only in Slovenia). 300-350 thousands of Croats were thrown into the pits - not even Stalin and Hitler managed to kill so many people in so short period of time!

:rofl:

I would have so utterly refuted these silly and mindless statements with proofs, facts and numbers, if I hadn't known that my posts would probably end up hard-deleted, so I won't bother.

Jesus Merciful Christ, if that was meant to be a parody to something, it might have some value. The quoted statements are that logically incoherent and that easy to refute, that they practically testify against themselves in a way that couldn't be more obvious. If there weren't for Tito and Serbian communists, today there would be no Croatia, and if there were any by chance, it wouldn't be consisted of all Dalmatia and most of Slavonia. Tito and Serbian communists (a paradox. it should stay "communist ex-Serbs") saved Croatia from the threat of international protectorate and made it possible for its nation to consolidate, while at the same time splitting Serbian nation into 4+1 different "nations". Please.

[Slavic Enforcer]

Too bad that The Phora was so often down, Zvaci. Your earlier comments about Tito and the Partisans were much more objective and rational than the last ones.

[Watzy]

I hope my fellow Croats realize how Banat's unpleasant interference into this highly internal Croatian debate proves 'our' domestic Yugo-Bolsheviks such as Kid Kash aren't even capable to defend their positions without foreign Serbo-Chetnik help. Nothing new, The Homeland War proved the red star fits along Chetnik symbols just fine.

Without 'our' Yugo-Communists, the Greater Serbian ideologists would loose a Trojan Horse into Croatia, while without Greater Serbian ideology 'our' Yugo-Communists would loose a backbone and the last hope to rule together with Serbs over the Croats as a privileged caste. Its a natural symbiosis.

[Watzy]

Too bad that The Phora was so often down, Zvaci. Your earlier comments about Tito and the Partisans were much more objective and rational than the last ones.

I haven't changed any of my views concerning Tito. I clearly distinguish his early role of a dissident within Serb-dominated Royal Yugoslavia, his WW2 role of the fighter against foreign occupiers (Serb royalists, Italians and Germans) from his role of the Yugoslav dictator and a traitor to the vital national interests of the Croats.

[Watzy]

From now on the doors shall be opened for the institutions of Croatian state to forbid glorifying Tito and Communism.

This is a first significant international document equalizing the guilt of Communist regimes with the guilt of Nazi-Fascist regimes. Hence forth the Croatian Yugo-communists loosed 'an edge' infront of Ustasa sympathizers. The Communist ideology shall not be regarded as a 'noble idea' anymore.

Council of Europe's official declaration on Communism:

Resolution 1481 (2006)1

1. The Parliamentary Assembly refers to its Resolution 1096 (1996) on measures to dismantle the heritage of the former communist totalitarian systems.
2. The totalitarian communist regimes which ruled in Central and Eastern Europe in the last century, and which are still in power in several countries in the world, have been, without exception, characterised by massive violations of human rights. The violations have differed depending on the culture, country and the historical period and have included individual and collective assassinations and executions, death in concentration camps, starvation, deportations, torture, slave labour and other forms of mass physical terror, persecution on ethnic or religious base, violation of freedom of conscience, thought and expression, of freedom of press, and also lack of political pluralism.
3. The crimes were justified in the name of the class struggle theory and the principle of dictatorship of the proletariat. The interpretation of both principles legitimised the “elimination” of people who were considered harmful to the construction of a new society and, as such, enemies of the totalitarian communist regimes. A vast number of victims in every country concerned were its own nationals. It was the case particularly of peoples of the former USSR who by far outnumbered other peoples in terms of the number of victims.
4. The Assembly recognises that, in spite of the crimes of totalitarian communist regimes, some European communist parties have made contributions to achieving democracy.
5. The fall of totalitarian communist regimes in Central and Eastern Europe has not been followed in all cases by an international investigation of the crimes committed by them. Moreover, the authors of these crimes have not been brought to trial by the international community, as was the case with the horrible crimes committed by National Socialism (nazism).
6. Consequently, public awareness of crimes committed by totalitarian communist regimes is very poor. Communist parties are legal and active in some countries, even if in some cases they have not distanced themselves from the crimes committed by totalitarian communist regimes in the past.
7. The Assembly is convinced that the awareness of history is one of the preconditions for avoiding similar crimes in the future. Furthermore, moral assessment and condemnation of crimes committed play an important role in the education of young generations. The clear position of the international community on the past may be a reference for their future actions.
8. Moreover, the Assembly believes that those victims of crimes committed by totalitarian communist regimes who are still alive or their families, deserve sympathy, understanding and recognition for their sufferings.
9. Totalitarian communist regimes are still active in some countries of the world and crimes continue to be committed. National interest perceptions should not prevent countries from adequate criticism of present totalitarian communist regimes. The Assembly strongly condemns all those violations of human rights.
10. The debates and condemnations which have taken place so far at national level in some Council of Europe member states cannot give dispensation to the international community from taking a clear position on the crimes committed by the totalitarian communist regimes. It has a moral obligation to do so without any further delay.
11. The Council of Europe is well placed for such a debate at international level. All former European communist countries, with the exception of Belarus, are now its members and the protection of human rights and the rule of law are basic values for which it stands.
12. Therefore, the Parliamentary Assembly strongly condemns the massive human rights violations committed by the totalitarian communist regimes and expresses sympathy, understanding and recognition to the victims of these crimes.
13. Furthermore, it calls on all communist or post-communist parties in its member states which have not so far done so to reassess the history of communism and their own past, clearly distance themselves from the crimes committed by totalitarian communist regimes and condemn them without any ambiguity.
14. The Assembly believes that this clear position of the international community will pave the way to further reconciliation. Furthermore, it will hopefully encourage historians throughout the world to continue their research aimed at the determination and objective verification of what took place.

http://assembly.coe.int/Main.asp?link=/Documents/AdoptedText/ta06/ERES1481.htm

[Slavic Enforcer]

I hope my fellow Croats realize how Banat's unpleasant interference into this highly internal Croatian debate proves 'our' domestic Yugo-Bolsheviks such as Kid Kash aren't even capable to defend their positions without foreign Serbo-Chetnik help. Nothing new, The Homeland War proved the red star fits along Chetnik symbols just fine.

Without 'our' Yugo-Communists, the Greater Serbian ideologists would loose a Trojan Horse into Croatia, while without Greater Serbian ideology 'our' Yugo-Communists would loose a backbone and the last hope to rule together with Serbs over the Croats as a privileged caste. Its a natural symbiosis.

Yeah, right.. :rolleyes:

One of the main goals of the KPJ (Communist Party of Yugoslavia) was to destroy the Serbian dominated Kingdom and to establish a federal union where all nationalities are on equal terms.

And they did it.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Yeah, right.. :rolleyes:

One of the main goals of the KPJ (Communist Party of Yugoslavia) was to destroy the Serbian dominated Kingdom and to establish a federal union where all nationalities are on equal terms.

And they did it.

Equal terms?

So why were not all Croatians and some Serbs, Hungarians, Germans etc fully emancipated after WW2? Why were certain areas of the country with certain populations denied economic development?

[Slavic Enforcer]

Equal terms?

So why were not all Croatians and some Serbs, Hungarians, Germans etc fully emancipated after WW2?

Apart from the fact that the Commies fought for Yugoslavia, the Allies agreed that Yugoslavia as a whole will exist in her pre-war borders after the war. And under these circumstances, the Commies did the best they could for Croatia.

And what have the Hungarians and Germans lost in this story?

Why were certain areas of the country with certain populations denied economic development?

These areas, and their inhabitants respectively, had other privileges.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

And what have the Hungarians and Germans lost in this story?


Apart from a huge number especially in the case of volksdeutsch being expelled?



These areas, and their inhabitants respectively, had other privileges.
Like Hercegovina, Livno, the Dalmatian Hinterland, Lika etc . . . yeah they had priveleges, like being allowed to get work in Germany otherwise they would starve to death in Tito's socialist paradise.

[sphinx]

I am not a Nazi; I do not approve of Nazis; but I think it is time these silly old men were left alone.
What will the Nazihunters do when all the old men are dead? Chase their children?

[Slavic Enforcer]

Apart from a huge number especially in the case of volksdeutsch being expelled?

Well, the absolute majority of them joined the false camp anyway.
So why should I care?

Like Hercegovina, Livno, the Dalmatian Hinterland, Lika etc . . . yeah they had priveleges, like being allowed to get work in Germany otherwise they would starve to death in Tito's socialist paradise.

Nobody had to die because of hunger in Yugoslavia. Spare me that.

[Watzy]

I am not a Nazi; I do not approve of Nazis; but I think it is time these silly old men were left alone.
What will the Nazihunters do when all the old men are dead? Chase their children?

It's time to forget WW2. Europe and US have more important things to look after, like dealing with multi-culturalism and Islamic terrorism.

[Jebivjetar]

It's time to forget WW2. Europe and US have more important things to look after, like dealing with multi-culturalism and Islamic terrorism.I agree. But some people just can't let it go.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Nobody had to die because of hunger in Yugoslavia. Spare me that.

In the early 1950s powdered milk was being delivered to my mother's family and others from the UN due to malnutrition. At 12 years of age my mother and sisters went to Backa to work on farms to earn shit money from which they would send back home. This was the normal thinf to do by young people from hercegovina and western bosnia. I have many more excellent examples such as the installation of electricity supply through the village which was indexed according to the number of family members working abroad. Our house in 1972 paid 12,000 DEM - In Australia a capitalist country the state does not charge to bring electricty supply to ones town and home. Spare me your corrupt socialist bullshit. If yugoslavia worked and socialism worked it would still be there today.

[Watzy]

In fertile Slovenia Tito ruined prosperous peasants just like Bolsheviks did in Ukraine. My maternal grandfather owned a large peasant property before Tito's bandits took everything away. But the worse things after the ww2 occurred to the BiH Croats. Tito aimed to completely destroy this population because he never enjoyed the support amongst Croat highlanders. Wife of my mother's nephew is from Hertzegovina (Rama) - after the war her village was amongst those sunk by the Communists who used a valley inhabited by Croats to build an artificial lake. Deprived of the fertile ground in this mountainous area, some of her folks moved into Slavonia, while the most emigrated into Switzerland and Canada. If there were no Communists, today there would be a lot more Croats in Bosnia.

[Slavic Enforcer]

In the early 1950s powdered milk was being delivered to my mother's family and others from the UN due to malnutrition. At 12 years of age my mother and sisters went to Backa to work on farms to earn shit money from which they would send back home. This was the normal thinf to do by young people from hercegovina and western bosnia. I have many more excellent examples such as the installation of electricity supply through the village which was indexed according to the number of family members working abroad. Our house in 1972 paid 12,000 DEM - In Australia a capitalist country the state does not charge to bring electricty supply to ones town and home. Spare me your corrupt socialist bullshit. If yugoslavia worked and socialism worked it would still be there today.

We were not so 'developed' like the West because we weren't a satelite state of the capitalist USA.

Now we are (just like the rest of Europe), but for what costs..?

[Watzy]

We were not so 'developed' like the West because we weren't a satelite state of the capitalist USA.

Now we are (just like the rest of Europe), but for what costs..?

An utter leftist BS. The story about Europe being dominated by USA is spread by the leftists of EU, as well as European and American extremist groups such as Communists, neo-Nazis and Islamists. EU is the true oppressor, not the US.

[Slavic Enforcer]

An utter leftist BS. The story about Europe being dominated by USA is spread by the leftists of EU, as well as European and American extremist groups such as Communists, neo-Nazis and Islamists. EU is the true oppressor, not the US.

The EU is not even a bloc.

The war in Iraq has proven that it's easy to put the EU into a state of inner conflict.

[Watzy]

The war in Iraq has proven that it's easy to put the EU into a state of inner conflict.

And who is causing this inner conflict? The same fractions that oppose the alliance of Europe and America against Islam - European socialists and liberals.

The same red crowd that cheered in support to Milosevic cheered in support to Saddam as well.

[Slavic Enforcer]

And who is causing this inner conflict? The same fractions that oppose the alliance of Europe and America against Islam - European socialists and liberals.

"Old Europe / New Europe" (Rumsfeld), remember?

And if I remember correctly, Tony Blair (Bush's lap-dog) is a so-called socialist.

The same red crowd that cheered in support to Milosevic cheered in support to Saddam as well.

What a problem do you have with Saddam?

He was probably the best leader of Iraq ever.

[Watzy]

"Old Europe / New Europe" (Rumsfeld), remember?

And if I remember correctly, Tony Blair (Bush's lap-dog) is a so-called socialist.

The intention of 'Old Europe' is to transform countries of eastern, central and southeastern Europe into colonies of Bruxelles. It is not a coninsidance Poland and some other countries used an opportunity of the war in Iraq to develop cordial relations with US.

What a problem do you have with Saddam?

Iraq under Saddam armed Serbs.

He was probably the best leader of Iraq ever.

I couldn't care less since I'm not Iraqi or a leftist.

[Slavic Enforcer]

The intention of 'Old Europe' is to transform countries of eastern, central and southeastern Europe into colonies of Bruxelles. It is not a coninsidance Poland and some other countries used an opportunity of the war in Iraq to develop cordial relations with US.

The Poles fear German domination and I can understand them.

[Watzy]

The Poles fear German domination and I can understand them.

Only German domination? If that would be the case they would have simply continued to stick to Russia like Belarus did, yet instead they chose a partnership with a third party. Why? Because they learned something from their national history and divisions of Poland between Russia and Germany.

And how is Polish position between Bruxelles and Moscow different in respect to Croatian position between Bruxelles and Belgrade?

Poles have enemies within EU (the Germans) - and we have enemies within EU (countries of ex-Entente Cordiale striving to establish a new Versailles order on Balkans).

Polish and Croatian enemies within EU are different, but they both belong the 'Old Europe' accustomed to make deals with our eastern neighbors against our interests.

[Slavic Enforcer]

Only German domination? If that would be the case they would have simply continued to stick to Russia like Belarus did, yet instead they chose a partnership with a third party. Why? Because they learned something from their national history and divisions of Poland between Russia and Germany.

That's what I always said.

And how is Polish position between Bruxelles and Moscow different in respect to Croatian position between Bruxelles and Belgrade?

There's no German problem in the case of Croatia, that's the difference.
Germany is Croatia's traditional ally and it's the driving force of the EU.

You should have asked: And how is the Polish position between Berlin and Moscow different in respect to the Croatian position between Berlin and Belgrade? because Bruxelles is a small piece of s*** compared to the other two powers.

Poles have enemies within EU (the Germans) - and we have enemies within EU (countries of ex-Entente Cordiale striving to establish a new Versailles order on Balkans).

Croatia has no foes within the EU, that's paranoia of some nationalists.

Polish and Croatian enemies within EU are different, but they both belong the 'Old Europe' accustomed to make deals with our eastern neighbors against our interests.

Really? You mean Germany, Austria and France are anti-Croatian?
That's new to me.

[Kodos]

Croatia has no foes within the EU, that's paranoia of some nationalists.

For some reason I don't really understand there is some historical animosity between them and the Brits.

[Slavic Enforcer]

For some reason I don't really understand there is some historical animosity between them and the Brits.

Tell me the name of one European nation that's friends with the English... ;)

[sphinx]

Tell me the name of one European nation that's friends with the English... ;)


Do the Portuguese not say they are Britain's oldest ally?

[Watzy]

Tell me the name of one European nation that's friends with the English... ;)

The 'Yugoslavians' - The Chetniks of Royal Yugoslavia and Tito's pro-western Yugo-gang (Rankovic, Đilas, Kardelj, Bakarić) should be grateful to Churchill and Anglo-West.

[Slavic Enforcer]

The 'Yugoslavians' - The Chetniks of Royal Yugoslavia and Tito's pro-western Yugo-gang (Rankovic, Đilas, Kardelj, Bakarić) should be grateful to Churchill and Anglo-West.

At least they (the "Yugo-Gang") were on the right side during and immediately after the war.

[Watzy]

At least they (the "Yugo-Gang") were on the right side during and immediately after the war.

They were on the side of the British imperialism all along - time shall reveal it is the wrong side.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

They were on the side of the British imperialism all along - time shall reveal it is the wrong side.

Of course it was the wrong side - it was that side which set up the elites and the NWO. Oops I wonder who has an avatar about NWO :rofl:

[Slavic Enforcer]

Of course it was the wrong side - it was that side which set up the elites and the NWO. Oops I wonder who has an avatar about NWO :rofl:

You mean a Nazi-Europe would had been better for us Slavic Croats in the long term?

[Watzy]

You mean a Nazi-Europe would had been better for us Slavic Croats in the long term?

So being exploited as a cheep labor by the Nazis is somehow less unpleasant than being exploited by the western Capitalists? :confused:

In the long terms western globalism is far more perfidious and powerful than the Nazis. Who brought down the entire Eastern Block/USSR - Hitler or the Anglo-Capitalists/Globalists? Say what you like about the Nazis, but at least they had some minimal sensitiveness and respect for (some) dominated nations. They did not pushed their noses into cultural and inner political affairs of other nations as much as the western globalists do. In those days the word 'nationalist' was not used in a derogative context like under globalists and their pawns.

One day, if we collectively survive the globalist Babylon - what shall we do we do with all those agents who mess with our national pride and freedom in our land? I say nothing less than a direct kiss in the eye-sockets will do! :rofl:

[Slavic Enforcer]

Who brought down the entire Eastern Block/USSR - Hitler or the Anglo-Capitalists/Globalists?

Nobody brought it down. The System in the Eastern Block has failed.

One day, if we collectively survive the globalist Babylon - what shall we do we do with all those agents who mess with our national pride and freedom in our land?

I guess the same what great 'Nationalists' like Pinochet and Stroessner did. :rolleyes:

Man, you are a contradiction in person. Now you say that Anglo-Saxons are the main foe, but several days ago you told us that the USA (main ally of England, also "Anglo-Capitalist") are one of Croatia's only real allies. :rolleyes:

[Bartholomew Roberts]

You mean a Nazi-Europe would had been better for us Slavic Croats in the long term?

When the last farm follows the last factory to China or some other cheap labour market and you along with your other European brothers are working as part-time tourist guides and prostitutes for the elites then you tell me that the NWO with its economic rationalisation and destruction of identities and borders to maximise markets and money-turning is better than a Nazi, or for that matter any other Europe.

[Slavic Enforcer]

When the last farm follows the last factory to China or some other cheap labour market and you along with your other European brothers are working as part-time tourist guides and prostitutes for the elites then you tell me that the NWO with its economic rationalisation and destruction of identities and borders to maximise markets and money-turning is better than a Nazi, or for that matter any other Europe.

Your expectations are too pessimistic, in my opinion.

Sure, the system will collapse, but we are far, far away from Chinese or generally Asian domination.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Your expectations are too pessimistic, in my opinion.

Sure, the system will collapse, but we are far, far away from Chinese or generally Asian domination.


I live in Australia. Do you know how many companies have gone overseas to manufacture? We have gone from a manufacturing nation of fulltime employees with one breadwinner in the family to a casualised workforce performing low paying jobs in the services industries (tourism etc).

Tell me what makes you think that Karlovacko Pivo or some other Croatian company will not want to eventually move to a labour market where it costs 10% of what it does in Croatia to pays its employees. Once companies are privatised, their allegiance is to their shareholders and not to their history or 'nation'.

Bad days ahead.

[Watzy]

Nobody brought it down. The System in the Eastern Block has failed.

If USSR was not forced to invest in arms race, particularly during Regan's star wars program, the system would have not collapsed.

Now you say that Anglo-Saxons are the main foe, but several days ago you told us that the USA (main ally of England, also "Anglo-Capitalist") are one of Croatia's only real allies. :rolleyes:

Being such a two-dimensional character it haven't occurred to you there can be a conflict of interests between the best allays.

Also you confuse two different historic moments. During the cold war Stalin was the major external opponent of Belgrade, while things have changed after the resurrection of the old demon of pan-Orthodox/Serbophile nationalism in Russia which the Bolshevik era unfortunately failed to root out.

http://www.garethjones.org/soviet_articles/soviet_posters/viktor_deni_1929.jpg

[Slavic Enforcer]

Being such a two-dimensional character it haven't occurred to you there can be a conflict of interests between the best allays.

You portray the USA as one of Croatia's biggest friends and one of Croatia's biggest foes.

Also you confuse two different historic moments. During the cold war Stalin was the major external opponent of Belgrade, while things have changed after the resurrection of the old demon of pan-Orthodox/Serbophile nationalism in Russia which the Bolshevik era unfortunately failed to root out.

It was one of the greatest decisions of our leader Marshal Josip Broz Tito not to let Yugoslavia become a satelite of the monster Stalin.

But I don't wonder that you say something like this.
Let me quote your hero, the "good Communist" Andrija Hebrang:

Zivjela sovjetska Hrvatska u sovjetskoj Jugoslaviji!

(Long live the Soviet Croatia in the Soviet Yugoslavia)

[Slavic Enforcer]

I live in Australia. Do you know how many companies have gone overseas to manufacture? We have gone from a manufacturing nation of fulltime employees with one breadwinner in the family to a casualised workforce performing low paying jobs in the services industries (tourism etc).

Tell me what makes you think that Karlovacko Pivo or some other Croatian company will not want to eventually move to a labour market where it costs 10% of what it does in Croatia to pays its employees. Once companies are privatised, their allegiance is to their shareholders and not to their history or 'nation'.

Bad days ahead.

I believe that this "civilization" will find its end with WW3.

[Ace Rimmer]

I believe that this "civilization" will find its end with WW3.

What WW3?.

[Slavic Enforcer]

What WW3?.

World War 3.

[Ace Rimmer]

World War 3.

What World War 3?

[Slavic Enforcer]

What World War 3?

Not easy to say.

Right now it looks like there could be a war between The decadent West and the radical Islam, but I don't believe that this will happen.

I could imagine a war between the USA and China, for example.

[Ace Rimmer]

I could imagine a war between the USA and China, for example.

This would be war between USA and China, not WW3.

:)

[Slavic Enforcer]

This would be war between USA and China, not WW3.

:)

There are many countries between China and the USA. :p

[Ace Rimmer]

There are many countries between China and the USA. :p

There is only sea between them friend. :p

[Slavic Enforcer]

There is only sea between them friend. :p

:D

Seriously, I doubt that a war between China and the USA wouldn't trigger a chain reaction.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

SO what side would you go on NWO? The radical idiots or the decadent west?

I personally would liek to hide it out in the mountains until both sides wipe each other out :rofl:

[Slavic Enforcer]

SO what side would you go on NWO? The radical idiots or the decadent west?

You'll not believe it, but I can imagine that in the case of, let us say, a war between the West and China the most Islamist countries would be allies of the USA. I guess the West is still a lesser evil for them compared to the Communist China.

To answer your question: The nWo would try to follow your example:

I personally would liek to hide it out in the mountains until both sides wipe each other out :rofl:

:)

Best Regards.

[Watzy]

http://www.tportal.hr/2005/09/22/0413007.19.jpg
Milivoj Asner

[dimitrije]

This would be war between USA and China, not WW3.

:)On my opinion muslim population of planet against united Europe, but the Zionist would find a way to bring America in war as always.

[Watzy]

A madman (?) claiming to be Hitler breaks Jewish windows and provides an excuse for Zuroff to whine against Milivoj Astner and Austrian state.

Austria school vandalism 'no surprise'
By RACHEL BEITSCH


Following the vandalism of a Jewish school in Vienna on Sunday, Ephraim Zuroff, head of the Simon Wiesenthal Center's Israel office, told The Jerusalem Post on Monday that it was not surprising "that events like this take place in a country that protects Croatian Nazi war criminals."

He referred specifically to the case of Milivoj Asner, "a Croation Nazi war criminal living in Klagenfort whose extradition has been sought for over a year by the Croatian authorities who want to put him on trial for his role as the police chief of the city of Pozegga during 1941-42."

The Austrians, he said, "refuse to send Asner back to Croatia despite the fact that he's not an Austrian citizen and there is ostensibly no reason that they haven't acceded to Croatian extradition request."

He concluded by pointing out that Austria "has not successfully prosecuted Nazi war criminals in more than 30 years, and in that atmosphere of impunity, perhaps it's not surprising that such terrible events take place."

On Sunday, Vienna police arrested a man suspected of causing widespread damage by smashing windows and other glass surfaces at the Lauder Chabad school using an iron rod, a spokesman said.

The man, who was not identified, was arrested around 0220 GMT Sunday at the school after residents alerted police because of the noise, police spokesman Herbert Hutter said. The man's motive was not immediately clear. He refused to answer questions and was largely silent, Hutter said.

In addition to broken windows, glass and other objects were damaged in the school's restrooms, Hutter said.

Austrian radio reported that the man told police he was Croatian. Hutter confirmed that he had said this, but noted that police were still checking.

Ariel Muzicant, the head of Vienna's Jewish Community, expressed shock and disbelief at the devastation.

He noted it was still unclear if the man was anti-Semitic or mentally ill.

"One asks oneself however, what goes through the mind of a man who attacks a school and destroys so much," Muzicant was quoted as saying.

He did not provide an estimate of the damage caused.

"We're now in the process of putting everything in order," he said.

APA cited Jacob Biderman, head of the school's administration, as saying that the man told the police officers who arrested him that his name was Adolf Hitler.

Hutter could not confirm that the man had said this, saying he had no such information.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1162378491527&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Sivi_Sokol]

Pošto nisam pronašao niti jedan razgovor sa gosp. Aschnerom na megjumrežju, malo sam tražio po starim časopisima i pronašao jedan razgovor iz 2005. sa 'Hrvatskim Listom' pa ga vama prosljegjujem.

E da, pogledajte ovu sramotu (http://www.mup.hr/1178.aspx).

EKSKLUZIVNI RAZGOVOR S MILIVOJEM ASCHNEROM, KOJEG SE DANAS OPTUŽUJE ZA KRŠENJE ODREDABA MEĐUNARODNOG PRAVA ZA VRIJEME DRUGOG SVJETSKOG RATA, TE DAJE NAREĐIVAO I PROVODIO NAREDBE O MUČENJU GRAĐANA SRPSKE NACIONALNOSTI I ŽIDOVA, PRIMJENJIVAO MJERE ZASTRAŠIVANJA TE PLJAČKAO NJIHOVU IMOVINU

NIKAKVA HAPŠENJA NISAM NAREDIO, NITI SAM TO MOGAO I DA SAM HTIO, A OPTUŽNICA PROTIV MENE JE JEDNA VELIKA LAŽ

Županijsko državno odvjetništvo u Požegi, 21. ožujka 2005. podnijelo je istražnom sucu Županijskog suda u Požegi "Istražni zahtjev protiv Milivoja Aschnera, rođenog 21.4.1913. u Daruvaru, sina Wilhelma i Matilde rođ. Rusan, doktora pravnih nauka, umirovljenika, s prebivalištem u Daruvaru..., sada boravi u Austriji, Klagenfurtu..., jer postoji osnovana sumnja da je "- ratni zločinac! U hrvatskim medijima, kao nedavno u Slobodnoj Dalmaciji, i prije suda i presude, Aschneru je već presuđeno -bez ikakvih skrupula već u naslovu ističe se - Da, on je ratni zločinac!

U samom istražnom zahtjevu, uz ostalo, navodi se kako su za vrijeme Drugog svjetskog rata na području NDH provođeni rasni i zakoni o vjerskoj nejednakosti te zakonske odredbe protiv tzv. "nepoćudnih i pogibeljnih osoba". Aschner je, navodno, prihvatio navedene ideje te je "od početka svibnja 1941. godine do konca veljače 1942. godine u Požegi, obnašajući dužnost predstojnika Gradskog redarstva u Požegi... upravljajući Gradskim redarstvom... - zlostavljao, naređivao hapšenja- građana srpske nacionalnosti i Židova, preuzimao i odlučivao o smještaju u logor Požega transporte uhićenika srpske nacionalnosti, donosio odluke o iseljavanju židovskih obitelji iz njihovih kuća i stanova i smještaju istih u neljudske uvjete stanovanja..." Podsjetimo, hajka protiv Aschnera počela je unatrag nekoliko mjeseci, nakon što je Zuroff i u Hrvatskoj pokrenuo akciju 'Posljednja šansa - lov na preostale živuće ratne zločince iz vremena Drugog svjetskog rata'. Tada je tjednik 'Globus', a na temelju materijala koje je prikupio Alen Budaj, mladić koji je navodno utrošio sedam godina rada na istraživanje mračne Aschnerove prošlosti, raspisao
nagradu u visini od deset tisuća dolara za informaciju koja bi dovela do uhićenja Aschnera, koji je tada živio u Daruvaru i to kao predsjednik Izvorne hrvatske seljačke stranke! U ekskluzivnom razgovoru za Hrvatski list, dr. Milivoj Aschner prvi put javno odgovara na teške optužbe koje su se na njegov račun pojavile u hrvatskim medijima i koje mu se stavljaju na teret u istražnom zahtjevu.



Optužnica je obična laž


Gospodine Aschner, izvjesni Alen Budaj tvrdi da ste Vi ratni zločinac. Nedavno Vas je posjetio u -Vašem domu u Klagenfurtu?

Županijskom sudu u Požegi me tužio, odnosno tužio me državnom tužitelju, Državnom odvjetništvu. Zatim se pojavio, navodno, neki Židov - Alen Budaj. Kad je došao k meni i predstavio se, rekao sam mu: Pa, gospodine, ja s probisvijetom nemam posla. Kako to mislite? - upitao me. Upravo tako, vi ste za mene probisvijet, a s takvima nemam posla. Vi, kao Židov, usuđujete se mene, kao Hrvata, goniti i naznačiti da sam zločinac! Znate li što to znači - zločinac? U pravnoj državi bih vas tužio i vi biste završili u zatvoru. Ja vas, nažalost, u ovom času u Hrvatskoj ne mogu tužiti, a ovdje u Austriji vi ste nitko i ništa. Budaj je čovjek bez zanimanja. On je običan Zuroffov agent koji je uporan u proganjanju Hrvata koji su nacionalno osviješteni. Zuroff je veliki prijatelj velikosrbina Bulajića, a sva trojica su na istom zadatku raditi protiv nacionalno svjesnih Hrvata i hrvatskog naroda. Vjerujem da je Budaj više beogradski, nego židovski agent. On se samo interesira tko je bio ustaša! A ustaša je bio, tada sam mu odgovorio, onaj koji je ustao jer ustaša dolazi od ustati. Ustaše su bili mladi ljudi koji su ustali u obranu Domovine. Ti se zovu ustaše. Dakle, to nisu nikakvi agenti, nikakvi plaćeni ljudi, nego oni koji su branili svoj Dom - svoje roditelje, svoje sestre, braću i djecu. I među te se i ja ubrajam! To je jedno. U drugom redu, mi Hrvati nemamo nikakve veze sa Židovima, jer smo mi jedan europski narod koji ovdje obitava već preko tisuću godina - od stoljeća sedmog. A Židovi su ovamo došli isto u prošlim stoljećima. Dakle, rekao sam tom fakinu da nas ne interesiraju židovstvo i Židovi, i da se moraju obratiti Nijemcima i njih priupitati o tim stvarima, a ne nama Hrvatima koji smo živjeli i koji živimo za to da stvorimo hrvatsku državu i da se borimo za naš Dom i naše obitelji. Nas ne zanimate ni vi, ni židovstvo, a još manje Hitler! Za nas je hrvatska država bila naš san i mi smo za taj san živjeli i ginuli. I evo, sada, mi koji smo tu još ostali na životu, brinemo se kako da hrvatska država bude jedan dio Europe. A što se tiče srpstva, židovstva... i drugih nacija... to nam nije interesantno. Mi smo Hrvati i za nas je važna hrvatska država. Mi želimo imati Hrvatsku, Slavoniju, Srijem, Bosnu, Hercegovinu, Boku, Istru... kao hrvatske dijelove. Za nas je Drina granica između Hrvata i Srba, za nas je Bosna i Hercegovina dio Hrvatske kao što je i Slavonija, Hrvatsko zagorje, Dalmacija... A što vi, gospodine Budaj, tu sad ganjate? Dajte pred svjedocima ovdje recite da sam ja zločinac! Pa ću vas onda tužiti i doći ćete u zatvor, jer ne možete dokazati da sam zločin počinio. Zločinac je onaj koji je zločin počinio.


U Istražnom zahtjevu navodi se da ste 26. kolovoza 1941. kao predstojnik Gradskog redarstva Požega, iako niste bili ovlašteni, preuzeli i u logor u Požegi predali transport od oko 600 Srba iz Dervente, uhićenih zbog njihove vjerske pripadnosti. Ustaše su potom 'inscenirale navodnu pobunu uhićenika te su čuvari logora - ustaše i žandarmerija u logoru ubili 358 uhićenih Srba'. Što kažete na te optužbe?

To što se meni tu i u nekim drugim točkama optužnice stavlja na teret da sam ja činio neke zločine protiv Židova, Srba... - sve je to obična laž. Optužuje me se da sam ratni zločinac, da sam ubijao, proganjao, mučio ljude srpske i židovske narodnosti. Ja sam za predstojnika Gradskoga redarstva u Požegu došao kao svršeni pravnik. To nije bila policija, nego Gradsko redarstvo! Mi s političkom policijom nismo imali nikakve veze. Već samo ime 'Gradsko redarstvo' kaže da je to redarstvo grada Požege. Moj je šef bio gradonačelnik Požege, apotekar Filić. Kao takav on je bio moj šef! A ja nisam bio činovnik Ministarstva unutarnjih poslova, nego činovnik Gradskoga poglavarstva! Gradsko
poglavarstvo nije bila državna institucija, nego institucija grada Požege. Dakle, ja sam kao takav bio podređen gradonačelniku Požege. Onda bi i gradonačelnik Požege, koji je bio moj nadređeni i koji je moj rad kontrolirao i sa mnom surađivao, bio zločinac kao i ja! To je jedno. Što se transporta tih ljudi tiče - to su ljudi koje su u Bosni uhitile njemačke i hrvatske vojne snage -kao pobunjenike. Kao takvi, oni su bili prebačeni u Požegu. Oni su bili zatočenici vojnih vlasti - hrvatskih i njemačkih -a ja sam bio predstojnik Gradskoga redarstva koje s tim nije imalo nikakve veze. Niti sam ja imao mogućnosti njih transferirati negdje drugdje, niti sam ih mogao kažnjavati, prebacivati i tomu slično. To je obična laž - jer je to bila stvar vojske, a ne moja. Pa ne će valjda jedan predstojnik Gradskog redarstva, danas kažemo Poglavarstva, biti nadređen jednom generalu vojske ili pukovniku i on će tu sada vršiti neku vlast, a ovi će gledati!



Kao predstojnik Gradskoga redarstva nisam bio nadležan za vojne stvari i zatvorenike


Nadalje Vas se optužuje da ste 16. listopada 1941. u svojstvu predstojnika Gradskoga redarstva donijeli odluku kojom se naređuje iseljavanje iz stanova i kuća 28 židovskih obitelji... u trošne kuće na području tzv. Ciglane, a imovina im je konfiscirana. Te su osobe koncem 1941. od 'od strane ustaša transportirane u logore Jasenovac i Đakovo, te im se gubi svaki trag'?

U samome članku stoji da su ih ustaše transportirale, a ja sam bio činovnik Gradskoga redarstva. Niti sam imao veze s tim stvarima niti je to mene interesiralo. Jer, ja nisam bio zapovjednik vojnih sila, bilo hrvatskih, bilo njemačkih, niti policijskih sila - nego predstojnik Gradskoga redarstva. Dakle, ja sam mogao samo u okviru grada Požege intervenirati i raditi - a nikako kao neko vojno ili policijsko lice, donositi takve odluke.


Dalje vas se tereti da ste od 19. do 22. prosinca 1941. naredili uhićenja 19 osoba 'pod sumnjom da su komunisti, te su isti bili zatvoreni oko mjesec dana te zvjerski mučeni i psihički zlostavljani da bi priznali navodnu pripadnost komunistima da bi ih samoinicijativno i bez odobrenja nadređenih
predao Prijekom sudu NDH, koji je sve uhićene zbog nedostatka dokaza oslobodio, osim Jerka Matkovića, koji je osuđen na dvije godine robije'.

Kao predstojnik Gradskoga redarstva nisam bio nadležan za vojne stvari, zatvorenike, uhićenja... ali, i to ću reći, bilo je komunista koji su se podigli protiv hrvatske države i koji su bili protivnici hrvatskih državnih vlasti. Jasna stvar je da sam ja morao na prijave građana intervenirati protiv komunista koji su pokušali rušiti hrvatsku državu. Ali iz svega se vidi da niti jedan od njih nije izgubio život, niti jedan od njih nije bio maltretiran i tučen. Oni su bili zatvoreni, provedena je istraga jesu li oni ustali protiv hrvatske države i kad se ustanovilo da su to bili borci samo na jeziku, pušteni su na slobodu.


Ovdje stoji optužba da ste Vi naredili uhićenja?

Nikakva uhićenja ja nisam naredio, niti sam to mogao i da sam htio. Njihova je uhićenja naredio ustaški logor, koji je vodio logornik Krešimir Kišpatić. I budući da se meni nije sviđalo da se on miješa u rad upravnih vlasti, hrvatskih, ja sam s njim došao u sukob. Predbacio sam mu da se on nema pravo miješati u rad hrvatskih upravnih vlasti - kao što su sudstvo, redarstvo (gradsko poglavarstvo, op.a.). I tu sam ja došao u izravni sukob s Kišpatićem. To može posvjedočiti i gospođa Vikica, Viktorija Skočilić. Ona je bila moja tajnica u Požegi i još je živa. Udala se za Srbina. Kad bih ja bio ovakav kakvim se mene tu opisuje, kako bi ona mogla biti moja tajnica kad se, kao moja činovnica, udala za Srbina? Meni to nije smetalo i ona je ostala dalje u službi. Dakle, ja sam bio Hrvat koji je radio po zakonima. Gospođa Skočilić, to je njezino djevojačko prezime, živi danas u Požegi i o svemu može posvjedočiti. Kako se danas preziva ne znam, znam samo da joj je
Ustaški logor pravio poteškoće i predbacivao mi da moja tajnica ne može biti udana za Srbina.


Vezano za logornika Krešimira Kišpatića u istražnom zahtjevu stoji da ste Vi s njim neutvrđenoga dana tijekom studenog 1941. 'došli u kuću u Požegi vlasništvo dr. Artura Horvata - osobe koja je nakon formiranja ustaške vlasti bila zlostavljana i mučena u više navrata od strane logornika Kišpatića, uhićena, te pod izlikom da provjeravaju kako se isti osjeća, u njegovoj kući obojica uzimali vrednije predmete i zadržali ih za sebe vršeći tako teški psihički teror nad već fizički i psihički oboljelim dr. Arturom Horvatom'.

Što je Kišpatić imao s dr. Horvatom, to ja ne znam. U svakom slučaju ja nisam bio ni u kakvom konfliktu s dr. Horvatom i nije mi ta osoba uopće poznata. Ne postoji nikakav akt koji sam ja potpisao protiv njega, a te priče da sam mu ja nešto ukrao - to je izvan svake pameti. Pa ja sam doktor prava i tada predstojnik Gradskoga redarstva u Požegi - ne ću valjda ići tamo nekome ukrasti stotinu kuna! To su gluposti, sve laž do laži...



Za hrvatsku državu i protiv svih onih koji su je rušili


I u drugim točkama optužuju Vas za navodna mučenja, zlostavljanja?

Sve su to prozirne laži - da sam ja, dakle, mojim podređenima naređivao da se civilno stanovništvo muči?! Neka dokažu. Neka kažu jednoga mojega službenika koji je to radio! Lako je napisati, ali neka kažu ime, prezime... Ja sam imao oko 20 podređenih ljudi - što redarstvenika, što činovnika. Pa neka kažu, evo, ime, prezime - tko je nešto učinio u moje ime?! To su izmišljotine komunista. To su komunistički trikovi. Neka gospoda koja su to napisala navedu bilo koga tko je po mojemu naređenju mučio ljude. Da sam ja bio za hrvatsku državu, to je jasno. Ja sam bio srcem i dušom za to. I da sam bio protivnik tih koji ruše tu državu, to je točno. Ali da smo nevine ljude hapsili, mučili, tukli... - neka dokažu, kažu ime i prezime onoga tko je to činio!
I evo, opet se obraćam mojoj tajnici Viktoriji. Ja sam u Požegi bio samo deset mjeseci. Imala je uvid u moj rad. Ona je bila moja tajnica od prvoga do posljednjeg dana, i evo, ona je najbolji svjedok. Ona se za vrijeme službe udala za pravoslavca - Srbina. Meni to nije smetalo. Mi, Hrvati, smo tolerantni, tako smo odgojeni.


Koji su pravi razlozi da Vas se sada u dubokoj starosti progoni kao zločinca, 'pomagača okupatora' koji je bio 'u lancu odgovornih' za zločine?

Ja sam, kao Hrvat, bio principijelno za hrvatsku državu. I kao takav sam išao u gimnaziju u Senju. U osmom razredu gimnazije sam bio zatvoren zbog protujugoslavenske propagande. Morao sam ponavljati taj 8. razred. Poslije su moji prijatelji iz te gimnazije, kao i iz gimnazije u Gospiću i Šibeniku, zvali su ih ustaše, bili visoki ustaški dužnosnici. Senj je bio grad za hrvatsku državu i protukomunistički nastrojen. I ja sam od prvoga dana bio protivnik komunizma, boljševizma... a za hrvatsku državu. I kao takav sam, ne samo kao pravnik, nego i po srcu i po osjećaju, radio za dobrobit hrvatske države i hrvatskoga naroda. A da sam mogao ponekad i kojega komunistu zatvoriti, zatvorio bih ga, i to bih i danas učinio! Ali da sam komuniste ubijao, dao tući... - sve su to laži. Jer, mi pravnici s hrvatskih sveučilišta bili smo odgojeni u liberalnom duhu, u duhu pravnih znanosti i osjećaja, i nismo odgojeni da protivnike tučemo i ubijamo. Mi smo bili i jesmo za hrvatsku državu, za pravnu državu!


Što kažete na ocjenu iz Istražnoga zahtjeva da je NDH utemeljena na 'genocidu i zločinu'?

Osnutak hrvatske države je ostvarenje sna hrvatskoga naroda. A ja, kao pripadnik hrvatskoga naroda, bio sam oduševljen osnutkom hrvatske države. I jasna stvar da sam, kao takav, i surađivao, ali mi smo odgojeni u duhu pravde. Za nas je bilo važno je li netko pošten ili je lopov, je li dobar Hrvat ili je Hrvat, a nesolidan čovjek, prevarant - a takav je već bio izdajica hrvatskoga naroda! Ja sam bio i ostao sam i u emigraciji pripadnik hrvatske države i za tu sam državu u svojoj mladosti živio i za nju radio. Predstavnici hrvatskoga naroda kao prof. Miroslav Sušić iz Senja, dr. Lovro Sušić, odvjetnik iz Otočca - koji je bio predstavnik Ustaškog pokreta, dr. Petar Gvozdić, odvjetnik iz Srijemske Mitrovice, otac naše svjetski poznate pijanistice Pavice Gvozdić, kojega su komunisti objesili u Srijemskoj Mitrovici, dr. Marko Lamešić, odvjetnik iz Rume, dr. Milan Čuvaj, odvjetnik iz Daruvara, dr. Milovan Žanić, dr. Mirko Jerec i još stotine takvih imena - svi ti pravnici su bili solidni ljudi koji su živjeli za hrvatsku državu. A onda su došli zločinci, na čelu sa Josipom Brozom Titom, koji su ubijali sve one koji su se istakli kao hrvatski rodoljubi. Ponovno podvlačim: Nezavisna Država Hrvatska je bila država stvorena na težnji i snu hrvatskih sinova - bilo onih u Bosni, Hercegovini, Slavoniji ili onih u Srijemu, Dalmaciji, Lici - mi smo svi sanjali stvaranje hrvatske države i ta je država bila na pravnom poretku izgrađena. Svi vodeći ljudi, kao dr. Petar Gvozdić, bili su oduševljeni hrvatskom državom, stvarali su je i učvrstili. A sve drugo je obična komunistička laž. Pa valjda nije bio onaj razbojnik iz Kumrovca neki pošten čovjek, pa on je bio obična propalica koji je radio za sovjetsku Rusiju. On je bio Staljinov agent i agent Brežnjeva, a ne nikakav hrvatski rodoljub, i to je moje stanovište i danas. NDH nije mogla biti osnovana na nekom genocidu iz jednostavnog razloga jer nikad nisu Hrvati, hrvatske vojne snage, prešle Drinu i u Srbiji ubijali Srbe i htjeli osvojiti Srbiju kao hrvatsku pokrajinu. Niti je itko od Hrvata odlazio u Srijem ili u srpska sela i tamo Srbe, kao takve proganjao, nego smo mi bili samo za hrvatsku državu i u okviru granica hrvatskoga naroda. Bosna i Hercegovina, bilo katolici bilo muslimani, koji su za vrijeme turske samovlasti prešli s katolicizma na islam, su za nas bili naša braća. Željeli smo samo hrvatsku državu u njezinim povijesnim granicama. A te granice su tisuću godina stare. Svaki, imalo školovan čovjek, zna komu pripada Dalmacija, komu pripada Bosna, Hercegovina, Lika, Hrvatsko zagorje, Srijem... I ako sam ja zločinac zbog toga jer smatram da hrvatski narod ima pravo na svoju državu - onda je o druga pjesma!


Za kraj, gospodine Aschner, riječ - dvije o Vašoj obitelji i tome da ste ostali bez imovine u Domovini?

Moj je otac imao vinograde, šume. Moji su roditelji imali velike posjede zemlje. Bili smo najveći vinogradari u daruvarskom području. Otac je godišnje dobivao od 300 do 400 hektolitara vina. Imali smo i veliku šumu - oko stotinu hektara u Končarici. Imali smo i polja i livade kod Daruvara. Moj je pokojni otac slovio kao jedan od najvećih tamošnjih posjednika. Svi su se čudili da sam ja želio studirati pravo. Ali ja sam u Senju odgojen u čistom hrvatskom političkom duhu... naša je imovina poslije rata zaplijenjena, oduzeta mojim roditeljima. Nažalost, umrli su, a tu imovinu nisu dobili natrag. I sada sam ja, kao njihov sin, zatražio povrat imovine. Onoga dana kad sam to zatražio i potpisao zahtjev, počela je hajka protiv mene - postao sam ustaški zločinac!

Hrvatski List - broj 32(131) 05.05.2005

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[Sivi_Sokol]

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[slobodagovora]

19.06.08. Starost: 20 h
Ašner ekskluzivno za HTV
Đuro Milivoj Ašner (95), koji se u Austriji zove Georg, napokon je progovorio. Četvrti najtraženiji nacist na svijetu, kako ga zovu britanski novinari, nekadašnji šef ustaške policije u Požegi, u Hrvatskoj optužen za ratni zločin protiv civilnog stanovništva, nakon što je viđen na utakmici hrvatske nogometne reprezentacije u Klagenfurtu, postao je najtraženiji čovjek i za hrvatske i za svjetske medije.

Vrata svojeg klagenfurtskog stana na kraju je odlučio otvoriti kolegi Damiru Smrtiću. Ašner (95) je u intervjuu za HTV priznao deportacije požeških Židova, Srba i Roma, ali kaže da ih nisu slali u logore, nego u njihove domovine.

Ekipu HTV-a Ašner je primio u svojem stanu u središtu koruške prijestolnice. Ne zna da je za njim raspisana Interpolova tjeralica zbog sumnje da je počinio ratne zločine.

Rekao je da mu je savjest čista i da može doći u Hrvatsku na sud. Duboko sam uvjeren da me, ako je sud u redu i ako su suci pošteni ljudi, moraju osloboditi svake optužbe. Jer ja sam Hrvat po rođenju, rekao je Ašner.

Tijekom razgovora neprestano je isticao hrvatstvo. Ašner kaže da je u Požegu došao kao kotarski predstojnik uvesti red i mir i voditi hrvatsku politiku. Krivnju za smrt Židova, Srba i Roma poriče. Tvrdi da se onima koji su lojalni građani hrvatske države nije dogodilo ništa. Oni koji nisu bili lojalni su morali otići. Mi smo ih ekspedirali u njihove domovine. Nismo ih slali u logore jer je to bilo preskupo, morate ih čuvati, hraniti itd. Ja sam bio na stanovištu da ako nisi Hrvat, a mrziš Hrvatsku, izvoli u svoju domovinu, idi u Beograd, u Vojvodinu, u domovinu, i pusti nas Hrvate na miru, objašnjava Ašner.

Ašneru je naša ekipa pokazala i fotografiju jednoga od svjedoka iz jučerašnjih novina za kojeg je ustvrdio da ga nikad nije vidio.

Austrijsko pravosuđe Ašnera ne želi izručiti zbog lošeg zdravlja. Ja sam usprkos tome spreman doći u Hrvatsku, svakako moje zdravlje nije najbolje, jer tu su godine. Moja savjest je čista i ja mogu sutra na sud pa mi sudite, istaknuo je za kraj Ašner.

Jednoga od najtraženijih zločinaca iz Drugoga svjetskog rata Milivoja Ašnera među tisućama navijača u kockastim dresovima u ponedjeljak su uočili i snimili britanski novinari. I medijska lavina je krenula. A iz našega Državnog odvjetništva zataženo je novo zdravstveno vještačenje i izručenje Hrvatskoj.
http://www.hrt.hr/index.php?id=48&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=5455&tx_ttnews[backPid]=23&cHash=74243cbf19
Na linku se nalazi i video interviewa, a govori i Budaj.

[slobodagovora]

20.06.08. Starost: 18min
Ašner proglašen nesposobnim

Milivoj Ašner, čije je izručenje od Austrije zatražila Hrvatska zbog optužbi za ratne zločine u Drugom svjetskom ratu, nije sposoban za sudski postupak, utvrdili su austrijski liječnici u najnovijem postupku vještačenja, izvijestila je štajerska Uprava za sigurnost.

Ašner je nesposobnim proglašen na kraju službenog liječničkog pregleda što ga je po nalogu austrijskog pravosuđa proveo štajerski Zemaljski ured za zaštitu ustavnog poretka i borbu protiv terorizma, objavljeno je u Klagenfurtu.

Prethodno su već postojala tri sudska vještačenja koja su potvrdila da Ašner nije sposoban za ispitivanje i sudjelovanje u sudskom postupku. Navodna Ašnerova izjava Sunu da je spreman dati iskaz sudu, tijekom tjedna izazvala je rasprave u Austriji, nakon čega je državno odvjetništvo u Klagenfurtu naredilo novu provjeru njegova zdravstvenog stanja.


Ima austrijsku putovnicu ali je ne smije koristiti

Ausrijski se mediji u međuvremenu bave i pitanjem Ašnerova austrijskog državljanstva.

Ašner se početkom 90-ih godina, nakon uspostave hrvatske neovisnosti, vratio iz Austrije u Hrvatsku i zatražio hrvatsko državljanstvo. Time je navodno izgubio austrijsko državljanstvo koje je dotad posjedovao. Kasnije se opet preselio u Klagenfurt i izjavio vlastima da tek želi zatražiti hrvatsko državljanstvo, ali da uz njega želi zadržati i austrijsko, što mu je navodno i odobreno. U tom trenutku nije postojao razlog za odbijanje njegova zahtjeva, izjavio je APA-i jedan predstavnik štajerske vlade.

Kad je pak austrijsko pravosuđe počelo istraživati njegovu ulogu u Drugom svjetskom ratu, pokazalo se da je Ašner lagao austrijskim vlastima jer je već dugo posjedovao hrvatsko državljanstvo. Dozvola da zadrži austrijsko državljanstvo time je izgubila temelj jer je dana pod pogrešnim uvjetima, izjavili su dužnosnici, tvrdeći da je time Ašnerova austrijska putovnica postala nevažeća.

Nakon što je sudski vještak Ašnera proglasio dementnim, austrijske vlasti ne namjeravaju mu oduzeti putovnicu, ali ju Ašner neće moći koristiti. Pri mogućim graničnim kontrolama ona bi se pokazala nevažećom. Austrijska policija međutim smatra nevjerojatnim da Ašner, kojega Austrijanci od ovog trenutka opet smatraju Hrvatom, želi napustiti Austriju.


I njemački tisak o Ašneru

U međuvremenu, slučajem Ašner bavi se i njemački tisak. Dnevnik Sueddeutsche Zeitung tvrdi da je Austrija neprestano izložena optužbama da u suočavanju s nacionalsocijalizmom vještačenjima čini usluge osumnjičenima i zataškava slučajeve.

Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung istodobno podsjeća da Centar Simona Wiesenthala opetovano traži izručenje Ašnera Hrvatskoj, dok austrijske vlasti to odbijaju pozivajući se na njegovu dementnost.


http://www.hrt.hr/index.php?id=48&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=5519&tx_ttnews[backPid]=23&cHash=dfbb9a4257

[sphinx]

What World War 3?
Maybe it will start with the USA and Venezuela ...

[Domobran88]

Or with Israel and Iran...

[Longinus]

Koliko sam upućen u slučaj, Ašner je u NDH bio periferni drot iz provincije. Senzaciju je digao neki židovčić iz Požege na veselje holokaust-industrije kojoj očajnički ponestaje posla.

[sphinx]

I am not a Nazi; I do not approve of Nazis


But in answer to one critic: I do believe that every race should have its own country, unpolluted by those who will not share its language and culture.