Medieval Irish warlord boasts three million descendants [Archive]

The Retard

01-19-2006, 08:56 PM

Medieval Irish warlord boasts three million descendants (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8600)

Up to three million men around the world could be descended from a prolific medieval Irish king, according to a new genetic study.

It suggests that the 5th-century warlord known as "Niall of the Nine Hostages" may be the ancestor of about one in 12 Irishmen, say researchers at Trinity College Dublin, Ireland. Niall established a dynasty of powerful chieftains that dominated the island for six centuries.

In a study of the Y chromosome - which is only passed down through the male line - scientists found a hotspot in northwest Ireland where 21.5% carry Niall’s genetic fingerprint, says Brian McEvoy, one of the team at Trinity. This was the main powerbase of the Ui Neills, which literally translated means "descendants of Niall".

McEvoy says the Y chromosome appeared to trace back to one person.

"There are certain surnames that seem to have come from Ui Neill. We studied if there was any association between those surnames and the genetic profile. It is his (Niall's) family."
Enduring dynasty

The study says that Niall "resided at the cusp of mythology and history but our results do seem to confirm the existence of a single early medieval progenitor to the most powerful and enduring Irish dynasty".

The results also lend support to surviving genealogical and oral traditions of Gaelic Ireland and are a "powerful illustration of the potential link between prolificacy and power".

The study says the chromosome has also been found in 16.7% of men in western and central Scotland and has turned up in multiple North American population samples, including in 2% of European-American New Yorkers.

"Given historically high rates of Irish emigration to North America and other parts of the world, it seems likely that the number of descendants worldwide runs to perhaps two to three million males," the study says.
Modern surnames

It compares the result with similar research that suggested that Mongol emperor Genghis Khan has 16 million descendants after conquering most of Asia in the 13th century.

Though medieval Ireland was Christian, divorce was allowed, people married earlier and concubinage was practised. Illegitimate sons were claimed and their rights protected by law.

"As in other polygynous societies, the siring of offspring was related to power and prestige." The study points out that one of the O'Neill dynasty chieftains who died in 1423 had 18 sons with 10 different women and counted 59 grandsons in the male line.

Niall of the Nine Hostages, who became high king of Ireland, got his name from using the taking of hostages as a strategy for subjugating his opponent chieftains. He is known in folklore as a raider of the British and French coasts. Supposedly slain in the English Channel or in Scotland, his descendants were the most powerful rulers of Ireland until the 11th century.

Modern surnames tracing their ancestry to Niall include (O')Neill, (O')Gallagher, (O')Boyle, (O')Doherty, O'Donnell, Connor, Cannon, Bradley, O'Reilly, Flynn, (Mc)Kee, Campbell, Devlin, Donnelly, Egan, Gormley, Hynes, McCaul, McGovern, McLoughlin, McManus, McMenamin, Molloy, O'Kane, O'Rourke and Quinn.

Journal reference: American Journal of Human Genetics (February issue)

Jonathan

01-27-2006, 10:41 AM

Are you related to him?

My paternal lineage comes from a different High-King of Ireland, but yes, I am a descendant of his (through a female line).

This I posted on Irish-Nationalism:

They should have given information on all the surnames tested. For example, O'Hagan isn't on the list - is this because the O'Hagan genetics didn't match up with Niall, or just because the O'Hagan surname wasn't tested? That's a bit frustrating.

Also there are certain surnames which are in the list which aren't necessarily always from the Uí Néill. Quinn for example is on the list. Now there was a sept of Quinn in Tyrone who are probably of Uí Néill extraction, but the Quinns of Mayo obviously aren't.

The piece mentions west Scotland too, but not necessarily which surnames. Campbell is in the list, but is this just the Campbells of the Mac a'Cathmhaoil family(a branch of the O'Neills) or does it include Scottish Campbells?

Also the peice seems mainly concerned with the northern Uí Néill(Cenel gConaill and Cenel nEogháin). Admittedly the Molloy family are there which suggests that Fiachra(a quo Fir Ceall) was truely a son of Niall although the Geoghegans of Fir Ceall are omitted. I see no Quinlans of Cenel Laoghaire, no Connollys or Harts of Síol nAodha Sláine, no Careys of Cenel gCairpre,no Foxes of Teathbha, etc. Surely the main aim of the study would be to prove that the northern and southern Uí Néill were linked. Proving that the Cenel gConaill and the Cenel nEogáin were linked was the easy bit.

Also, names like Hynes and McManus aren't supposed to by Uí Néill names, the Hynes family are Uí Fiachrach Aidhne of south Galway, miles from any Uí Néill, while the two McManus septs are well documented(in the historical period) as being branches of the Maguires and O'Connors respectively(neither of which are supposed to be Uí Néill families either).

Most interestingly though is that both O'Reilly and O'Rourke are shown as Uí Néill when historically they claimed to be from the Uí Briúin Bréifne. In fact, the Uí Briúin Bréifne were credited with spliting the Uí Néill creating the last division between northern and southern Uí Néill. Why the hell did the O'Reilly and O'Rourke septs end up being Uí Briúin, it wasn't a politically astute move if they did it themselves, but who would have put up the scribes to do it so? and more importantly, why? Cenel nEogáin/Cenel gConaill trying to delegitimise potential contenders?

Too many questions. Still though, great info.

I also posted this on Irish-Nationalism when in adebate with another member, it is somewhat relevant:

For a start I just explain why it is that the ancient/medieval nobility are the ancestors of the vast majority of Irish people today.

In the period I am about to post about Polygamy was legal (defended by the Brehons on the basis that it had been practised by the Old Testament Patriarchs). In such a society, the alpha males i.e. nobility will always accumulate more than their fair share of women which gives them more opportunity to reproduce and puts the beta males i.e. commoners at an immediate disadvantage. The nobility enjoyed much better living conditions than the commoners thus they never experienced as many still-births as their common counterparts, they also enjoyed a longer life expectancy which gave them more time to reproduce relative to their common counterparts again. Any time that an area suffered from famine, drought, or war, it was always the commoners who suffered most.

As an example, I’ll take the posterity of one of Ireland’s most famed High-Kings, Brian Bóroimhe/Boru(926-1014) son of Cennéide son of Lorcán etc of the Dál gCáis.

This Brian is the eponym of the O’Brien family. For the reasons mentioned above, the O’Brien family multiplied at a phenomenal rate. Here’s a link to S. Pender’s edition of Petty’s census of 1659 for County Clare(go straight to the “Principal names” at the bottom):
http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coc...nder_index.htm
Limerick:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllim/records.htm#censuses
Tiperary:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~irltip/records.htm#censuses

Here’s for Griffith’s evaluations(just type in O’Brien yourself):
http://scripts.ireland.com/ancestor/...on=Go.&UserID=

O’Brien was the 6th most common surname in Ireland according to the survey of 1891.

What more evidence would you need?

But that’s not all.

From Mathghamhna son of Muircheartach son of Toirdhealbhach son of Tadhg son of Brian Bóroimhe are descended the MacMahon family of Thomond(as distinct from the MacMahon family of Oriel). Please use the same links above for numbers on the MacMahon family.

From Consáidín/Constantine son of Tiordhealbhach son of Diarmuid(brother of Muircheartach listed above) son of Toirdhealbhach son of Tadhg son of Brian Bóroimhe are descended the (Mac)Consadine family who were prominent ecclesiasts in Thomond. Please use links as before.

From one Domhnall Ua Briain are descended the MacDonnell family of Thomond(as distinct from the MacDonnell family of Antrim/Scotland and the MacDonnell family of Clann Ceallaigh in Fermanagh) who became hereditary poets to the main O’Brien lineage. Use links…

From one Giolla Iasachta Ua Briain are descended the (Mac)Lysaght family. Use links…

Through the female descendants of Brian Bóroimhe, his blood filtered through many more of Ireland’s families.

Sadhbh daughter of Brian Bóroimhe was married to Cian chief of the Cenél mBéicce of the Cenél Aodha of the Uí Eachach Mumhu. Their eldest son, Mathghamhna, was the eponym of the (O’)Mahony family. Use links…

Dearbhghiolla, daughter of Donnchadh son of Brian was married to Diarmuid MacMaol na mBó who’s great-great-grandsons Eanna “Ceannsalach” and Domhnall “Caomhanach” are the eponyms of the Kinsella and Kavanagh families respectively (the sub-spets of the Kavanagh family being the Clan Hendricks, Clan Mernagh, Clan Rackard, Clan Timmins, and Clan Vaddock).

Mór daughter of Toirdhealbhach son of Tadhg son of Brian Bórumha married Ruaidhrí O Conchúbhair of the Síol Muireadhaigh(himself a High King, which doesn’t matter because his father Toirdhealbhach had been a High King before him) ancestor of O’Connors and also the (Mac)Sweeney family(Maol Mhuire son of Suibhne Ruadh a quo MacSuibhne/Sweeney, was married to Beanmhidhe daughter of Toirdhealbhach son of Ruaidhrí).

Mór daughter of Domhnall son of Toirdhealbhach son of Diarmuid son of Toirdhealbhach son of Tadhg son of Brian Bóroimhe was married to Cathal Craobh Dhearg O Conchúbhair(brother of Ruaidhrí above) the ancestor of O’Connor Don, and O’Connor Roe, and the Gernon family of Fermanagh through the marriage of Una daughter of Aodh son of Cathal and Robert de Gernon(their daughter Hodirna was also the mother of William Bán Burke of Clanrickard).

Sabina daughter of Donnchadh “Cairbreach” son of Domhnall “Mór” son of Toirdhealbhach son of Diarmuid son of Toirdhealbhach “Mór” son of Tadhg son of Brian Bórumha was married to Geoffrey Ua Donnchadha ancestor of O’Donoghue/Donohoe/Donahue etc of Kerry.

Sláine daughter of Toirdhealbhach “Donn” son of Tadhg “an Chomhaid” son of Toirdhealbhach “Bog” son of Brian “Catha an Aonaigh” son of Mathghamhna “Maon Maighe” son of Toirdhealbhach “Mór” son of Tadhg son of Conchubhar “na Suidine?” son of Donnchadh “Cairbreach” son of Domhnall “Mór” son of Toirdhealbhach son of Diarmuid son of Toirdhealbhach “Mór” son of Tadhg son of Brian Bórumha was married to Henry “óg” O’Neill of Tyrone.

Fionnuala daughter of Toirdhealbhach “Donn” son of Tadhg “an Chomhaid” son of Toirdhealbhach “Bog” son of Brian “Catha an Aonaigh” son of Mathghamhna “Maon Maighe” son of Toirdhealbhach “Mór” son of Tadhg son of Conchubhar “na Suidine?” son of Donnchadh “Cairbreach” son of Domhnall “Mór” son of Toirdhealbhach son of Diarmuid son of Toirdhealbhach “Mór” son of Tadhg son of Brian Bórumha was married to Maghnus O’Donnell of Tyrconnell.

The O’Brien women married into the invaders as well of course.
Sláine O’Brien married Nicholas FitzMaurice of Kerry, ancestor of FitzMaurice of Munster(as distinct from FitzMaurice of Mayo, a branch of the de Prendergast family).
And their daughter Margaret FitzMaurice was the wife of Domhnall “Ruadh” MacCarthy “Mór” of Kerry, ancestor of MacFinghin Carthys of Cetherne and Gleneroughty, through his son Diarmuid óg and the ancestor of MacCarthy of Muskerry, Clancarty, Maing, and Ardcanaghty through Cormac “Mór” his grandson by Domhnall “óg”.And of O’Sullivan “Mór” through Catherine the daughter of Cormac “Mór”…
And another of the FitzMaurice women(Aneline) descended from O’Brien married Gerald FitzGerald(son of Maurice, son of Thomas son of John son of Thomas son of Maurice son of Gerald a quo FitzGerald) ancestor of the FitzGeralds of Desmond.

The 1st of the Joyce family(Thomas de Jorse) to come to Ireland(and the ancestor of all Joyces in Ireland) married Nora O’Brien before settling in what is now “Joyce Country” in north Connemara which they acquired through marriage with the O’Flaherty family(these same Joyces also became one of the 14 “Tribes of Galway” and intermarried with the families of Athy, Blake, Bodkins, Skerrit, Kirwan, Morris, French, Deane, Font, Browne, Lynch, Darcey, and Martin).

The 1st of the Burke family(William de Burgh) to come to Connaught(and ancestor of all Burkes in Ireland) married Mór daughter of Domhnall “Mór” O’Brien. Hugo de Burgh, David de Burgh, Raymond de Burgh, Seáinín de Burgh, and Gibbon de Burgh, all descendants of William de Burgh and Mór O’Brien, were the eponyms of the Cooke, Davis, Redmond, Jennings, and Gibbons families of Ireland.
The FitzGerald family of Kildare is linked to this family tree through the marriage of Thomas FitzGerald(son of John son of Thomas son of Maurice son of Gerald son of Maurice son of Gerald a quo FitzGerald) and Joan de Burgh(daughter of Richard son of Walter son of Richard son of William).
As are all the Butler family of Ireland through the marriage of Theobald FitzTheobald “The Butler”, eponym of the Butler family, and Margaret de Burgh daughter of Richard son of William.

I could go on like this for a while but I’m getting fed up of it. I’ve just accounted for a sizable portion of the Irish population with just 1 High King. There are several other High Kings to account for the remainder of the population but it would be tedious.

Now, keep in mind that Brain lived in the 10th century, whuile Niall lived in the 5th, so Niall had a 500 year head start on Brian.

The Tribes who claim descent from Niall (through the male line only) are:

Cenel nEogháin (including the branches of Clan Neill, Clan Domnaill, Clan Birn, Cenél Fergusa, Cairrge Brachaidhe, Cenél Binnigh, Cenél Moen, Cenél Fearadhaigh, Cenel Tigernaich, Clan Conchobhair, Clan Diarmatta).
Cenel gConaill (including the branches of Sil Lugdach, Cenel nEnda, Cenel Bóguine, Tir Ainmireach & Tir Aedha, Cenel Duach, and others).
Cenel gCairpre (including Cenel gCairpre Laighean, Cenel gCairpre Dromclíomh, Cenel gCairpre Gabra).
Cenel Laoghaire
Síol nAodha Sláine
Clann Cholmáin
Fir Teathbha
Cenel Fiachrach(or Fir Ceall)

It would take hours for me to list all the individual families.