Video game of Spain's civil war causes outrage

[Felix the Cat]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/spain/article/0,,2212614,00.html

A computer game that allows players to take sides in the Spanish civil war has caused outrage at a time when the country is still struggling to come to terms with the legacy of the conflict.

Shadows of War: The Spanish Civil War is the first game dedicated to the 1936-39 conflict, which cost the lives of an estimated 500,000 people and resulted in General Franco's 36-year dictatorship. It has been designed to enable players to take on the role of Franco's victorious forces or the defeated republicans.

The release date is particularly contentious as it falls on November 20, the anniversary of the death of Franco, when fascist groups gather to commemorate the late dictator. It also comes weeks after the Spanish parliament passed the historical memory law, which for the first time recognises Franco's victims, and was one of the most hotly disputed pieces of legislation in 30 years of democracy.

Gaming websites have been full of criticism for the game, with some viewing the idea of playing the part of a fascist soldier as repellent. Others, however, welcome the chance to rewrite history and emerge victorious as a republican soldier.

The game's makers have defended the decision to use real events. "As well as being entertaining, it could serve to remind people that they need to be conscious of past events to make sure they are not repeated," said Paco Pérez, the project's director.

But some relatives of those killed in the war do not see it that way. Carlota Leret, the daughter of Commander Virgilio Leret Ruiz, Franco's first victim, executed on July 18 1936 and whose name is mentioned in the game, said: "It is not a historical event buried in the past, but is very fresh in the memory of Spaniards. There is no justification for trivialising the killings and the suffering and pain of the victims when we still haven't reconciled ourselves with the past."

Though much of the game is historically accurate, in one section players take on the role of a young female republican guerrilla, with a mission to inform her comrades of the position of Franco's elite Condor Legion. Her tight-fitting trousers and revealing top are more reminiscent of Lara Croft from Tomb Raider than Spanish guerrilla fighters.

But perhaps one fact more than any other will affect the game's popularity: it is reported not to be very good. A review in the daily El País described it as "far from being a super production".

[Ahknaton]

Strange reaction, given the number of WW2 games already out there, including ones where you can play on the Axis side (BF1942, Day of Defeat etc).

[harjit]

Strange reaction, given the number of WW2 games already out there, including ones where you can play on the Axis side (BF1942, Day of Defeat etc).
The article said that many have yet to come to terms with that war. Not all things need be measured with the same yardstick.

[Jake Featherston]

The article said that many have yet to come to terms with that war. Not all things need be measured with the same yardstick.

Civil wars always lead to more bad blood than international ones. Especially authentic civil wars, such as the one in Spain where Republicans and Loyalists alike each came from every section and community of Spain (unlike the American "Civil War," which was really more of a war between two independent political entities ie., the USA versus the CSA).

[Hartmann von Aue]

http://i12.tinypic.com/6ut7kb6.jpg

[///M power]

nice picture Leon.
anyway Franco wasn't much help to the axis in WWII and neither was Mussolini,Hitler just carried all of them and most of the weight alone. if he had different allies he would probably had won.

[Hartmann von Aue]

Yes, there's a lot of truth to that.

The failure to take advantage of Vichy France, to coordinate strategy early in the Mediterranean, to take advantage of Vichy Syria to aid the coup in Iraq and the German friendly government in Iran, to support Mussonlini in Libya from the beginning, to rein in Mussolini against Greece, to actually use the Italian fleet for something instead of having it be dealt a crushing blow in port, to get the Finns to continue pressure on Leningrad, and of course the failure of the Japanese to attack Russia's Siberian forces, all contributed heavily to eventual Axis defeat.

[Ahknaton]

The article said that many have yet to come to terms with that war. Not all things need be measured with the same yardstick.
Plenty of people haven't come to terms with WW2 either, though I guess a WW2 game made by neo-Nazi Germans would be sure to be controversial. The game developers claim that it's to stop it happening again, which sounds pretty laughable.

I was just reading the Wiki summary of the Spanish Civil War because I've never really read anything about it besides For Whom The Bell Tolls, and it says Ireland was the only country to send more volunteers to fight for the fascists than the commies. I assume this was because of Franco's Catholicism, can any Irish posters add anything to this?

My natural sympathies are with the fascists/traditionalists but I don't really know enough about it to say for sure. One point to note is that Franco didn't hand any Spanish Jews over to the Nazis to be killed in the Holocaust the way Mussolini did, and even accepted Jewish refugees later in WW2. I guess that's proof that fascism isn't necessarily anti-Semitic.

[Hartmann von Aue]

The Spanish-speaking Left never forgives and never forgets.

Very uncompromising and fanatical.

Look at all the Castro apologists out there.

At any rate, Spain proposed "Plan D" - a peace plan to end WWII.


Catolicismo, anticomunismo y propaganda cultural
A partir de los últimos meses de 1942 se observaría un cambio gradual en la dimensión americanista española, paralelo al que iba gestándose en el conjunto de su política exterior y favorecido por la designación del conde de Jordana al, frente de la estructura diplomática. La confianza española en una rápida victoria militar del Eje había comenzado a modificarse sustancialmente al incorporarse los Estados Unidos al campo bélico. El desembarco aliado en el norte de Africa contribuyó a impulsar un replanteamiento en la actitud de los dirigentes del régimen franquista ante la guerra mundial, decantándose paulatinamente a partir de entonces por una solución del conflicto en Europa basada en una paz negociada entre los bandos contendientes. En el seno del Ministerio de Asuntos . Exteriores se elaboró una estrategia ajustada a tales presupuestos, el denominado "Plan D", que preveía la asociación en torno a España de un grupo de países católicos y neutrales destinado a promover un acuerdo de compromiso y establecer un marco internacional de seguridad colectiva tras la consecución de la paz22.

http://www.tau.ac.il/eial/II_2/gomez.htm

[Jake Featherston]

Franco wasn't much help to the axis in WWII and neither was Mussolini,Hitler just carried all of them and most of the weight alone. if he had different allies he would probably had won.

The Italians lost 600,000 troops fighting against the Soviets on the Eastern Front; something tells me those guys took some of Stalin's boys with 'em. Italy just wasn't a major industrial power back then. Hitler wanted to ally with Britain and America, but that never flew.

[Hartmann von Aue]

The Italians lost 600,000 troops fighting against the Soviets on the Eastern Front; something tells me those guys took some of Stalin's boys with 'em. Italy just wasn't a major industrial power back then. Hitler wanted to ally with Britain and America, but that never flew.

What's your source for that figure?

[Jake Featherston]

What's your source for that figure?

I think I read here on The Phora, in one of those threads were Cerberus and the usual suspects were discussing the minutiae of that war.

EDIT: According to Wikipedia, the Italians only sent 200,000 troops to the Soviet Union, and loss not much more than 20,000 of them*, so apparently Cerberus is full of shit.**


*So apparently the Italians really weren't all that much use to the Germans. On the other hand, if Germany had done what was necessary to ensure the Suez Canal fell....

**Just kidding; I don't recall which person posted that, although someone was clearly full of shit.

[Felix the Cat]

Would Franco have allowed Germany to attack Gibraltar via Spanish territory?

[Hartmann von Aue]

I think I read here on The Phora, in one of those threads were Cerberus and the usual suspects were discussing the minutiae of that war.

EDIT: According to Wikipedia, the Italians only sent 200,000 troops to the Soviet Union, and loss not much more than 20,000 of them*, so apparently Cerberus is full of shit.**


*So apparently the Italians really weren't all that much use to the Germans. On the other hand, if Germany had done what was necessary to ensure the Suez Canal fell....

**Just kidding; I don't recall which person posted that, although someone was clearly full of shit.

The Italians lost 600,000 military dead in WWI I think.

Make that 651,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties

[///M power]

The Italians lost 600,000 troops fighting against the Soviets on the Eastern Front; something tells me those guys took some of Stalin's boys with 'em. Italy just wasn't a major industrial power back then.

no jack,there is no truth in what you just wrote(the number).
although I respect the Italian fascism and like it, as well as Mussolinis intentions and the fact that he didn't persecuted Jews,(until Italy was German controlled), in reality he couldn't be a leader like Hitler was and although he wished it would be like the legendary roman military, his military was weak comparing it to the other nations and had a bit of a rough time even fighting Ethiopia. what about Albania 1939? or the fact that they declared war on France only after Hitler defeated them,and still had many causalities and limited gains,and we are talking about a defeated French military. even the Greek army stopped them in 1940 when they invaded Greece and pushed them back,making Hitler come to help the Italians and defeating them Greeks on his own for them. even the fleet was weak and powerless by 1940 and the air force wasn't that great either. I would say with confidence Hitler and Germany were responsible for maybe 90% of the axis victories, it was more like Germany against the world on its own making it impossible to win at the end.

[///M power]

Would Franco have allowed Germany to attack Gibraltar via Spanish territory?

nope, he negotiated with Hitler about it making impossible and ridicules demands from Hitler making the deal impossible, in my opinion he was a disappointing ally to Hitler like Mussolini turned out to be. he also become neutral on 1943 and wasn't part of the axis.

[harjit]

The Ahknatons, Jake Featherstons and Pounce dem Lions of the world should be more thankful that Fascism is gone from Europe.

[Jake Featherston]

The Ahknatons, Jake Featherstons and Pounce dem Lions of the world should be more thankful that Fascism is gone from Europe.

Which begs the question why?

[harjit]

Which begs the question why?
Do you think your funky candour and personality style would fit well in a fascist regime?

You, along with myself, are part of the colourful menagerie that is the modern West.

It's especially funny to think of Dan Dare in that context, as part of a colourful menagerie. :rofl:

[Felix the Cat]

Franco wasn't really a "fascist" in any meaningful sense of the word. He was just a conservative traditionalist who associated with fascists when it suited him.

[Jake Featherston]

Do you think your funky candour and personality style would fit well in a fascist regime?

I'd probably be more discreet in a fascist regime, but on the other hand, I'd have reason to be in a way that I no longer do under the present regime; I ain't going anywhere under liberal-democratic-capitalism because of one harmless phone call made over eight years ago. I've been screwed enough under the current regime not to have any fear of the next. I may be getting a decent job (I have to call someone about it on Moday, but apparently a very favorable recommendation has already been made on my behalf, at a company that doesn't do background checks of any kind), but that's the best I can hope for ie., a decent job. I've thought of going back to school, but why bother? The liberals/neo-cons aren't ever going to let me prosper in their society. Hence the specter of fascism doesn't loom very fearfully in my vision, as losing the ability to earn a living has always been one of the more vicious punishments under any sort of Western regime (my criminal record in and of itself is not primarily the issue either, because I had no problem getting a job until after I got laid off in 2002, hence I suspect increased security checks in the post-9/11 environment are the issue, which means I'm rendered virtually unemployable by what essentially amounts to an exercise in war propaganda - Hell, I got probably the best job I've ever had like six weeks after I got out of jail).

[Jake Featherston]

Franco wasn't really a "fascist" in any meaningful sense of the word. He was just a conservative traditionalist who associated with fascists when it suited him.

Wasn't the Falange Party fascist, however? What role did the Falange Party play in Franco's Spain?

[Felix the Cat]

The Falange was one of several powerful factions in Francoist Spain, which Franco used for his own purposes while not allowing them to become too strong.

[Kodos]

nice picture Leon.
anyway Franco wasn't much help to the axis in WWII and neither was Mussolini,Hitler just carried all of them and most of the weight alone. if he had different allies he would probably had won.

Franco was actually enormous help to the allies, as he kept the Axis out of Gibraltar.

http://www.curledup.com/hitlerby.htm

[Kodos]

Wasn't the Falange Party fascist, however? What role did the Falange Party play in Franco's Spain?

He used them but they didn't govern.

[///M power]

Franco was actually enormous help to the allies, as he kept the Axis out of Gibraltar.

http://www.curledup.com/hitlerby.htm

Kodos , are you drunk?
I said he wasn't much help to the axis, and you said was enormous help the the allies.