View Full Version : Hegel's Authoritarian State as the Divine Idea on Earth
Hakluyt
01-19-2006, 10:30 PM
http://www.quebecoislibre.org/05/051115-11.htm
HEGEL'S AUTHORITARIAN STATE AS THE DIVINE IDEA ON EARTH
by Edward W. Younkins
Immanuel Kant's (1724-1804) ideas largely constitute the starting point of G.W.F. Hegel's (1770-1831) thinking, which, in turn, provides a metaphysical framework for Marxian thought. It is in Hegel's philosophy that we find the full expression of the concept of the state as superior to the individual.
Kant brought about a rebirth of the importance of dialectics by working out the antinomies of reason. According to Kant, serious thought about one general description of the world often leads us to a contemplation of its opposite. Kant thus proposed the paradox that the world consists of antinomies – contradictions that cannot be resolved. Hegel built on the idea of Fichte that the antinomies could perhaps be overcome through a synthesis that would transcend the contradiction. Hegel went on to suppose that the two concepts so held in opposition can always be united by a shift to some higher level of thought. According to Hegel, contradictions are inherent in reality and everything is made of opposites. He believed that it is the interplay between opposites that leads to all observable phenomena and our interactions with the world.
Hegel declares that reality is a systematic progression of clashing contradictions – thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. An idealist in metaphysics, he maintains the underlying reality of the universe is the nonmaterial, divine, dynamic, cosmic mind (God, the Spirit, Idea, World Reason, the Absolute, etc.) whose nature it is to evolve constantly, thereby unfolding itself in a series of stages. In one of these stages, the Spirit externalizes itself in the form of the material world, taking on the appearance of numerous seemingly distinct and autonomous individuals. The finite is real only in the sense that it is a phase in the self-development of the Absolute. Nature is thus conceived as a coherent whole and external manifestation of World Reason that is progressively revealed in time and space. Individual minds and actions are all phases or parts of the Divine Mind-they constitute steps in its self-actualization. Not a transcendent being, Hegel's God is an Absolute that is immanent in reality.
According to Hegel, God as mind, is everything but is unaware of his own identity. God, for Hegel, is not omniscient. This God is driven by need to discover his identity. Unknowledgeable of his own infinitude, God creates the apparent objective world in his search for his own nature. God thus struggles to get past this illusion of otherness. The Absolute (i.e., the primacy of consciousness cosmic spirit) creates the objective world that is in fact a surface appearance. Tensions occur and a dialectical process follows through which truth (i.e., the oneness of all apparent things) is sought.
Where did Hegel get the notion that God is not omniscient and therefore is unaware of his own identity? Ayn Rand has observed that for Kant one's knowledge lacks validity because to truly know involves relating to reality directly without depending on one's conceptual mechanism. Kant said that to know reality requires a consciousness not limited to specific means of cognition. Perhaps Hegel built on this idea by observing that God has identity and is (or has) consciousness and therefore is likely to be unaware of his own limitlessness.
The Spirit must progressively actualize itself until it reaches its full development - the key to which is the interplay between opposites. The Absolute finds expression in nature through a process of contradiction. All ideas contain their own contradictions, which, rather than being obstacles to truth, are in fact the very means for achieving truth. These contradictions exist for the imperfectly reflecting human mind. Hegel explains that both the assertion and negation of a statement may be viewed as true if they are understood as imperfect expressions of a higher proposition (synthesis) that contains all that is essential in both of these, embodying it in a fuller entity. This is an ongoing process. The final truth about reality will contain no distinctions of any kind. Everything will be one.
Hegel understood the world as process rather than as made up of entities. He believed that we need to get below the appearance of things (i.e., to get to the essence) in order to really know them. The essence negates the appearance. The key is to look for tensions and the contradictions that are apparent and inherent to each stage of the process.
For Hegel, the State is the highest embodiment of the Divine Idea on earth and the chief means used by the Absolute in manifesting itself as it unfolds towards its perfect fulfillment. Hegel argued that the State is the highest form of social existence and the end product of the development of mankind, from family to civil society to lower forms of political groupings.
The State is a superorganic whole made up of individuals grouped into local communities, voluntary associations, etc. These parts have no meaning except in relation to the State, which is an end in itself. The State can demand that its parts be sacrificed to its interests. Each man is subordinate to the ethical whole – if the State claims one's life then the individual must surrender it. Because everything is ultimately one, the collective has primacy over the individual. Hegel's State has no room for the idea of individual rights or a liberal theory of the State; instead it provides an ethical underpinning for totalitarianism. The State is an independent, self-sustaining, superorganism made up of men and having a purpose and will of its own.
Because men across different groupings (nations) disagree in their moral feelings, each State rightly legislates its own moral code – true morality is expressed in and through the laws of the State that must be obeyed by the citizens of that State but not by the members of other States. The State expresses the universal will and therefore the true will of every individual within it. Obedience to the will of the State is the only way for a man to be true to his rational self, because the State is the true self of the individual. Freedom, the right to act rationally, consists in acting in conformity with the orders of the government. The State has supreme right against the individual whose highest duty is to submerge himself into the State. Hegel calls for an antidemocratic authoritarian State that has absolute right over its component members precisely in order to attain maximal freedom.
In any particular era, one State may become the preferred vehicle of the Absolute. This favored State can be recognized by its dominant position in the world arena. That nation has absolute right over all the others, including the right to launch wars. For Hegel, wars among nations are unavoidable and healthy representations of the evolution of the Absolute. The nation that wins the wars during a particular period is the one preferred by God. This position is not a permanent one. Each victorious, conquering nation comes closer to the ideal State than the one defeated-each represents a more perfect incarnation of World Reason.
The form of Hegel's collectivism is nationalism rather than the majority or mankind as a whole (i.e., a World State). Pitting one nation against another makes possible the even more perfect realization of the Universal Idea. Hegel argues that a World State would not have a contradiction and thus a resulting synthesis would be impossible. However, perhaps it could be argued that a World State would have a contradiction in anarchy with a potential resulting synthesis of freely chosen voluntary communities and associations.
According to Hegel, God as mind, is everything but is unaware of his own identity. God, for Hegel, is not omniscient. This God is driven by need to discover his identity. Unknowledgeable of his own infinitude, God creates the apparent objective world in his search for his own nature. God thus struggles to get past this illusion of otherness. The Absolute (i.e., the primacy of consciousness cosmic spirit) creates the objective world that is in fact a surface appearance. Tensions occur and a dialectical process follows through which truth (i.e., the oneness of all apparent things) is sought.
Where did Hegel get the notion that God is not omniscient and therefore is unaware of his own identity?
Answer: from the Kabbalah. Check out the doctrine of En-Sof and Sephiroths.
http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/chapt06.html
Theoretical Cabala
Two qualities dominate the theoretical Jewish Cabala. Every attribute of Intelligence, of Knowing, Loving or Ruling is stripped from the God of the Bible and handed over to pagan spirits, who are invoked as in ancient paganism as "other gods," those which were so often denounced by the Prophets. This act of stripping God of Intelligence and reducing Him to a mass of "self-percolating essence," the "En Sof," is nothing but pantheism (the sum of nature being God, without any Supreme Being).
Whether called "emanation" by the Jewish Cabala, "immanence" by Talmudic Spinoza, or renamed by Hegel - for "the real and ideal is taught in the same way in the Cabala as in Hegel" (Jewish Encyclopedia, page 474), or designated "dialectical materialism" by Karl Marx, the result is the same old atheistic concept of nature just waiting for man to run and dominate it. The Luciferian god is always man.
The great heresy of Gnosticism, which nearly swept Christianity from the earth in the early centuries, is admittedly Cabalistic."
I understand that according to Michael Hoffman, the artificial "Left-wing-Right-wing" distinction goes back to Kabbalah (the two pillars of Freemasonry, Jachin and Boaz).
He alludes to the idea in here:
"Buchanan makes the mystifying declaration, "We are of the Right." No, Pat, "we" are not of the Kabbalah's pillar of severity; nor are we of the Left, the Kabbalah's pillar of mercy. We are beyond that rabbinic game and we thought you were too when you drained our credit cards in your bid for President on a Third Party ticket."
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/wire2.html
"Pillar of severity" (right-wing) symbolizes authoritarianism and "pillar of mercy" symbolizes libertinism (left-wing).
Hegel's evolutionary dialecticism (which then spawned Marxism) could be described as Kabbalistic.
See here for some graphics on those two pillars and their synthesis, the "pillar of mildness":
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/3pillars.html
"The unity of opposites" is an inherently pantheistic idea - that thesis and antithesis do not really oppose each other, but join together in synthesis. Their conflict is seen ultimately just as an illusion.
... and that concept is connected to the Luciferian idea that even Satan himself is not really an opponent of God, but is somehow "doing God's work".
"Pike describes the cabalistic view of Satan in his book Morals and Dogma, published in 1871 for the Southern Jurisdiction of Scottish Rite Freemasonry:
"The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh [sic] reversed; for Satan is not a black god, but the negation of God."
http://www.freedom-ministries.com/leo-taxil-fraud/index.html
See where this innocent-sounding pantheistic doctrine about "Unity of Everything" leads, when applied to the Bible? To the idea that God and Satan are One.
Petr
Where did Hegel get the notion that God is not omniscient and therefore is unaware of his own identity?
Answer: from the Kabbalah.
Via Jacob Boehme (who is perhaps even better than Eckhart).
See where this innocent-sounding pantheistic doctrine about "Unity of Everything" leads, when applied to the Bible? To the idea that God and Satan are One.
Oh noes!!!!
Oh noes!!!!
You find this blasphemy amusing, don't you?
Petr
Helios Panoptes
01-20-2006, 01:24 AM
You find this blasphemy amusing, don't you?
Petr
I certainly do.
I certainly do.
Luke 6:25:
"Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep."
Petr
You find this blasphemy amusing, don't you?
No, I find your characterization of it as blasphemy and subsequent condemnation amusing. You're an ideologue; ideologues are clowns.
See where this innocent-sounding pantheistic doctrine about "Unity of Everything" leads, when applied to the Bible? To the idea that God and Satan are One.
When applied to gender issues, such pantheism naturally leads to a total confusion of sexual identities, and when it's applied to ethnic issues, it leads easily into one-world multiculturalism - for a consistent pantheist, all differences are just illusory, total unity being the ultimate reality.
Is it any wonder that Kabbalah originates from Babel, the mother-lode of one-world ideology?
On the other hand, the doctrine of Trinity (so hated by pantheists), is a great illustration of "separate but equal" (before God/law) principle!
"Booker T. Washington was a black man who was far wiser than your average Reformed seminary graduate. (I know, I know, that’s an unusual thing for a "racist" to say.) He said, in 1895, "We can be as separate as the fingers, yet one as the hand in all things essential to mutual progress." I’d like to make that the kinist motto."
http://littlegeneva.com/index.php?s=booker&submit=Search
C.S. Lewis predicted that the final struggle between worldviews would not be fought between Christianity and atheism (which he called as "philosophy of adolescents" or something like that), but rather between Christianity and pantheism.
Petr
No, I find your characterization of it as blasphemy and subsequent condemnation amusing. You're an ideologue; ideologues are clowns.
Well then, is there anything that might qualify as blasphemy in your eyes?
Petr
Hegel built on the idea of Fichte that the antinomies could perhaps be overcome through a synthesis that would transcend the contradiction. Hegel went on to suppose that the two concepts so held in opposition can always be united by a shift to some higher level of thought. According to Hegel, contradictions are inherent in reality and everything is made of opposites. He believed that it is the interplay between opposites that leads to all observable phenomena and our interactions with the world.
More on Hegelian relativism:
http://www.amconmag.com/2006/2006_01_16/article.html
"If such comparisons seem outlandish, it is precisely because we in the West have failed to grasp the true nature of Marxism-Leninism. This may be because we tend to think of communism as being only about state ownership of the means of production and the command economy. In fact, Karl Marx himself advocated neither. Instead, the true core of Marxist-Leninist doctrine, according to Alexander Solzhenitsyn, was the ideology of dialectical materialism. Derived from Hegel and ultimately Heraclitus, this doctrine—on which Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin all wrote extensively—holds that the world is in a constant state of flux, that nothing is absolutely true or false, and that progress comes from the constant union of opposites."
On the Hegelian-Darwinism-Freemasonry connection:
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Ascendancy2.htm
"Another one of the many constituent worldviews comprising Darwinism is Hegelianism. According to philosopher Georg Hegel, a pantheistic world spirit was directing 'an ongoing developmental (evolutionary) process in nature, including humanity,' which bodied itself forth as a 'dialectical struggle between positive and negative entities.' This conflict always resulted in a 'harmonious synthesis' (Taylor, 381-2). The same dialectical framework is present in Darwinism.
... Yet, Darwinism's roots go deeper than Hegelianism, returning to an esoteric source that has been there since the beginning. Hegel's ideas did not originate with himself, but Fichte (Sutton, America's Secret Establishment, 34). Who was Fichte? Antony Sutton reveals that he was a 'Freemason, almost certainly Illuminati, and certainly promoted by the Illuminati' (Sutton, America's Secret Establishment, 34). In fact, Hegel's dialectical logic reiterates the Masonic dictum: Ordo Ab Chao (Order out of chaos). Again, it seems that the bedrock upon which Darwinism rests is Freemasonry, a channel for elitist interests.
And we know well whence the Masonic lore originates from...
http://freemasonrywatch.org/scottishrite_cabala.html
"All the truely dogmatic religions have issued from the Kabbalah and return to it: everything scientific and grand in the religious dreams of the Illuminati, Jacob Boehme, Swedenborg, Saint-Martin, and others, is borrowed from Kabbalah, all the Masonic associations owe to it their secrets and their symbols."
Sovereign Grand Commander Albert Pike 33°
Morals and Dogma, page 744
Petr
Luke 6:25:
"Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep."
How dialectical. ;)
Well then, is there anything that might qualify as blasphemy in your eyes?
Why must we be so judgemental?
The only thing I consider blasphemous in any meaningful sense is blatant ignorance and the judgementality that stems therefrom.
(Obviously, we're not omniscient and judgement is a necessary and good function in the world; the greatest 'blasphemy' is to ignore possibilities of truth in favor of condemning an other's falsehood, or what one perceives as such, from the vantage point of one's own falsehood.)
More insight into the occultism peeking from behind the supposedly materialistic mask of Marxism-Leninism:
http://www.gnostics.com/newdawn-1.html
Occult Roots of the Russian Revolution
...
A number of social and political movements, including Marxism and Lenin’s Bolshevism, have been linked to Gnosticism, which flourished in the early centuries of the Christian era. The political scientists A. Besancon and L. Pellicani argue the intellectual roots of Russian Bolshevism are a structural repetition of the ancient Gnostic paradigm. A distinguishing feature of Gnosticism is an illusive, symbolic interpretation of reality, including history.
For the early Christian Gnostics the Absolute – termed the ‘Unknown Father’– has nothing in common with the wrathful ‘God’ worshipped by theist religion. In fact, for these Gnostics, the ‘God’ of the Old Testament is the adversary of their ‘Unknown Father’, the true God. Our world, including all human institutions, is not the work of the true God, but of a false creator, the Demiurge, who keeps us captive in the world, away from the divine light and truth.
Therefore, in Gnosticism, the world is merely a sort of illusion, a set of allegorical symbols, a reverse image of the real essence of history. Man, who is asleep to his inner potential, must awake and become an active partner of the ‘Unknown Father’ in the transformation of all life. Otherwise he remains a prisoner in what the eminent Russian Gnostic philosopher Vladimir Solviev (1853-1900) aptly described as “a kind of nightmare of sleeping humanity.” A number of Gnostic communities – like nineteenth century communists – held contempt for material goods and lived communally, teaching “the world and its laws, religious, moral and social, are of little relevance to the plan of salvation.”1
...
V.D. Bonch-Bruevich (1873-1955) came to revolutionary Marxism under the influence of the Russian novelist Leo Tolstoy’s social teachings. Like Lenin’s wife Krupskaya, he started his revolutionary career distributing Tolstoy’s The Kingdom of God Is within You, a work infused with neo-Gnostic themes. In 1899 Bonch-Bruevich left Russia for Canada to live among the Doukhobors, Russian Gnostic communists whose refusal to pay taxes and serve in the army drove them into exile. Bonch-Bruevich reported on the secret doctrines of the Doukhobors and put in writing their fundamental oral teachings known as the ‘Living Book’. On his return to Europe in 1901 Bonch-Bruevich introduced Lenin to the chief tenets of these Gnostic communists. The Doukhobors, with their radical rejection of the Church and State, with their denial of the uniqueness of the historical Christ, and their neglect of the Bible in favour of their own secret tradition, were of some interest to the founder of Bolshevism.
...
A Marxist pamphlet written before 1917 and later reissued by the Soviet government bluntly declared that man is destined to “take possession of the universe and extend his species into distant cosmic regions, taking over the whole solar system. Human beings will be immortal.” Anatoly Lunacharsky, the first Commissar of Enlightenment in the new Soviet state, believed that as religious conviction had been a great force of change in history, Marxists should conceive the struggle to transform nature through labor as their form of devotion, and the spirit of collective humanity as their god.
A.V. Lunacharsky (1875-1933) and the Russian writer Maxim Gorky (1868-1936), close friends of Vladimir Lenin, were acquainted with a broad spectrum of occult thought, including Rudolf Steiner’s Anthroposophy and Helena Blavatsky’s Theosophy. Both these prominent Bolshevic revolutionaries shared a life-long interest in ancient mystery cults, religious sectarianism, parapsychology and Gnosticism. Maria Carlson maintains that Gorky’s “vision of a New Nature and a New World, subsequently assimilated to its socialist expression as the Radiant Future, is fundamentally Theosophic.”14 Gorky valued the writings of the occultists Emanuel Swedenborg and Paracelsus, as well as those of Fabre d’Olivet and Eduard Schure.
Drawing on the imagery of the ancient solar mysteries, Gorky declared in Children of the Sun, “we people are the children of the sun, the bright source of life; we are born of the sun and will vanquish the murky fear of death.” In his Confession, the “people” have become God, creators of miracles, possessors of true religious consciousness, and immortal. Gorky envisioned a beautiful future of work for the love of work and of man as “master of all things.” Revealing his familiarity with parapsychology and faith healing, Gorky tells how an assembled crowd uses its collective energy to heal a paralysed girl. He was deeply impressed by research into thought transference, often writing of the “miraculous power of thought”, while expressing the hope that one day reason and science would end fear.
...
Occult elements are obvious in Lunacharsky’s early plays and poems, including a reference to the “astral spirit”, and a familiarity with white magic and demonology. He discussed Gnosticism, the Logos, Pythagoras, and solar cults in his two volume work Religion and Socialism. After the Bolshevic Revolution, Lunacharsky wrote an occult play called Vasilisa the Wise. This was to be followed by a never published “dramatic poem” entitled Mitra the Saviour, a clear reference to the pre-Christian occult deity. Significantly, it is Lunacharsky, along with the scholar of Russian Gnostic sects V.D. Bonch-Bruevich, who is credited with developing the so-called “cult of Lenin” which dominated Soviet life following the Bolshevic leaders’ death in 1924.
...
“Nonetheless we have studied Marxism a bit,” wrote Lenin, “we have studied how and when opposites can and must be combined. The main thing is: in our revolution… we have in practice repeatedly combined opposites.” Several centuries earlier the Muslim Gnostic teacher Jalalladin Rumi pointed out, “It is necessary to note that opposite things work together even though nominally opposed.”
...
The Russian spiritual underground spawned several important writers and poets who welcomed the Bolshevic Revolution. Two of the most outstanding were Nikolai Kliuev (1887-1937) and Sergei Esenin (1895-1925). Occult images and Russian messianic themes abound in their poems. Kliuev saw Lenin as the popular leader and embodiment of the Old Belief. In typically Gnostic fashion Esenin disdained the old God of the Church and proclaimed a “new Nazareth”. The young Esenin gave support to the Bolshevic Red Army and even tried to join the Bolshevic party. Tragically, Kliuev felt betrayed by the Revolution, was arrested and died on the way to a labor camp in 1937. Esenin took his own life in 1925 believing dark forces had usurped the Russian Revolution.
By the early 1920s the Bolshevics had consolidated their hold over much of the former Russian Empire. The Communist Party emerged as the monolithic embodiment of the popular will. All occult societies, including the Theosophists and Anthroposophists, were disbanded. Freemasonry was virulently condemned and its lodges closed. In the drive to modernise Russia and build a technologically advanced Soviet Union, occult notions were publicly classed as superstition and openly ridiculed. The new Soviet State, with its Marxist-Leninist ideology, became the sole arbitrator of all thought. Leading occult teachers were forced into exile. Yet many of those associated with the spiritual underground joined the Communist Party and found employment in various Soviet organisations.
...
Footnotes:
1. Benjamin Walker, Gnosticism Its History & Influence
2. James Webb, Occult Underground
3. Maria Carlson, No Religion Higher Than Truth
4. As quoted in Maria Carlson, No Religion Higher Than Truth
5. Acts 2:44-47
6. Mikhail Agursky, The Third Rome
7. James H. Billington, The Icon and the Axe
8. As quoted in James H. Billington, The Icon and the Axe
9. As quoted in Nina Tumarkin, Lenin Lives: The Lenin Cult in Soviet Russia
10. Nicholas Berdyaev, The Russian Idea
11. Geoffrey Hosking, Russia: People and Empire
12. As quoted in Mikhail Agursky, The Third Rome
13. Robert C. Williams, The Other Bolsheviks
14. Maria Carlson, No Religion Higher Than Truth
15. Richard Noll, The Jung Cult
16. Mikhail Agursky, The Third Rome
17. The Occult in Russian and Soviet Culture, edited by Bernice Glatzer Rosenthal
18. As quoted in Hitler’s Words, edited by Gordon Prange
19. Mikhail Agursky, The Third Rome
20. As quoted in Richard Pipes, Russia Under the Bolshevik Regime 1919-1924
21. The Occult in Russian and Soviet Culture, edited by Bernice Glatzer Rosenthal
22. Ibid
23. Nicholas Berdyaev, The Russian Idea
When applied to gender issues, such pantheism naturally leads to a total confusion of sexual identities, and when it's applied to ethnic issues, it leads easily into one-world multiculturalism - for a consistent pantheist, all differences are just illusory, total unity being the ultimate reality.
Bullshit. Pantheism is a consequence of and leads to a deeper feeling of the beauty one perceives in the world around oneself. The truth according to the pantheist: beauty is divine and the world is beautiful. All else is rationalization of this principle.
A pantheist could argue that difference is beautiful, that God is found in such things as biodiversity and such, and so on. Pantheism does not do away with the ability to differentiate--in fact, Boehme-style pantheism requires differentiation, declares differentiation the reason for God's creation, and would if anything call for further differentiation.
More on Hegelian relativism
"More attempts to draw connections to ideologies that are likely despised here so as to discredit Hegel with ad hominem!!!!"
Kodos
01-20-2006, 03:30 AM
Two qualities dominate the theoretical Jewish Cabala. Every attribute of Intelligence, of Knowing, Loving or Ruling is stripped from the God of the Bible and handed over to pagan spirits, who are invoked as in ancient paganism as "other gods," those which were so often denounced by the Prophets. This act of stripping God of Intelligence and reducing Him to a mass of "self-percolating essence," the "En Sof," is nothing but pantheism (the sum of nature being God, without any Supreme Being).
Petr, question( try to think about it without responding with Christian doctrine since you are an intelligent person generally)...
1. Do you agree that a being such as a creator god must nessecarily exist outside the flow of time as it exists in this universe?
2. What kind of consciousness could such a being have?
Kodos
01-20-2006, 03:31 AM
Why must we be so judgemental?
The only thing I consider blasphemous in any meaningful sense is blatant ignorance and the judgementality that stems therefrom.
(Obviously, we're not omniscient and judgement is a necessary and good function in the world; the greatest 'blasphemy' is to ignore possibilities of truth in favor of condemning an other's falsehood, or what one perceives as such, from the vantage point of one's own falsehood.)
As an athiest why do you like the catholic church( espec since if your an american whos not a taxpayer leeching parasite or a border jumper its political influence goes against your interests)?
As an athiest why do you like the catholic church( espec since if your an american whos not a taxpayer leeching parasite or a border jumper its political influence goes against your interests)?
I am undergoing my second apostasy.
1. Do you agree that a being such as a creator god must nessecarily exist outside the flow of time as it exists in this universe?
Well, yes. Before the creation there was no time.
2. What kind of consciousness could such a being have?
That quite simply is not our business. This is sometimes hard for a fallen, egomaniacal man to comprehend or accept.
Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
However, in His infinite grace, the Triune God has seen fit to reveal Himself visible and incarnate to mankind in Lord Jesus Christ. Through Him we may know all about Divine that is necessary.
http://www.redmoonrising.com/agenda.htm
...
"Gorgias was one of the most famous Sophists, and Markos sums up Gorgias's philosophy with the three following propositions:
1) Nothing exists; 2) If it does exist, it cannot be known; 3) If it can be known, it cannot be communicated. By his first proposition, Gorgias meant not to deny the existence of physical reality but to deny the existence of any absolute, eternal presence that dwells outside of space and time. Proposition two follows with the assertion that even if the gods or the Forms or some other first principle actually did exist, we would be unable to know or perceive those principles. The third proposition completes Gorgias's philosophical skepticism by arguing that even if an individual could somehow come to know one of these first principles, he would be powerless to communicate that knowledge by word, sound, or image to others.
...
And just how was Gorgias trounced so severely? What is the ultimate and eternal answer to the insidious three-fold deception that has been embraced by the Post-Modern world? Very simply, it is the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, as revealed in the opening verses of the Gospel of John:
The first proposition is defeated by verses 1-12, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not. But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God (b'nai ha elohim), even them that believe on His name."
The second proposition is defeated by verse 14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."
And the third proposition is defeated by the fact that right now the words that you are reading pierce right into the very heart of your soul. Truth can be known and Truth can be communicated. All protests to the contrary stand revealed as pathetic and evil.
In his lecture Professor Markos goes on to show how the doctrine of the Trinity does the same as that of the Incarnation:
"Think about it! The Trinity is the best way to answer Gorgias's three propositions:
'Nothing exists'? Well, God the Father is the eternal Creator and Origin, the Alpha and Omega. Yes, something exists: God.
'If it exists it cannot be known'? What does it [the Bible] say? 'In Christ,' the second person of the Trinity, 'God made Himself known to the world.'
Number three: 'If it can be known, it cannot be communicated.' What about the third member [of the Trinity]? The belief is that God communicates to us through the Holy Spirit, via the Bible, and so the Trinity is another refutation of Gorgias's three propositions.
...
Petr
And the third proposition is defeated by the fact that right now the words that you are reading pierce right into the very heart of your soul. Truth can be known and Truth can be communicated. All protests to the contrary stand revealed as pathetic and evil.
Didn't you say that obedience was salvation, and not pagan attempts at knowledge?
What is the "truth" manifested in Jesus? Does it matter whether or not this truth exists, from a Christian standpoint?
Didn't you say that obedience was salvation, and not pagan attempts at knowledge?
The Christian position is that true knowledge (not a "gnosis falsely so called", 1 Timothy 6:20) is out there for anyone to grasp, but in their fallen wickedness men refuse to see the plain truth in front of them or twist it according to their presuppositions, like the autonomy from God. "Laa-la-laa, I can't hear you!" See Romans 1.
Petr
Helios Panoptes
01-20-2006, 04:35 AM
Well, yes. Before the creation there was no time.
Could you elaborate on your position regarding God's temporality?
Kodos
01-20-2006, 04:46 AM
"Think about it! The Trinity is the best way to answer Gorgias's three propositions
Okay... so to ask something on an irrelevant tangent... what do you think of sincere( not modern liberal) unitarians. Ie real christians who deny the Trinity?
Okay... so to ask something on an irrelevant tangent... what do you think of sincere( not modern liberal) unitarians. Ie real christians who deny the Trinity?
Unitarians are not Christians. No man or woman who denies Jesus Christ's divinity and His unique incarnation may be considered a Christian.
1 Epistle of John:
4:2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Petr
"Pike describes the cabalistic view of Satan in his book Morals and Dogma, published in 1871 for the Southern Jurisdiction of Scottish Rite Freemasonry:
"The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh [sic] reversed; for Satan is not a black god, but the negation of God."
http://www.freedom-ministries.com/leo-taxil-fraud/index.html
It just occurred to me that those oh-so-harmless "South Park" jesters seem to be popularizing this occult theory on the necessity of sin and how Satan is really just a "shadow of God".
Just check the lyrics from this ditty sung by cartoon Satan in the South Park movie:
http://www.southparkstuff.com/lyrics/blu6.shtml
They say I don't belong
I must stay below alone
Because of my beliefs
I'm supposed to stay when evil is sown.
But what is evil anyway
Is there reason to the rhyme
"Without evil there could be no good
So it must be good to be evil sometimes"
Petr
Fade the Butcher
03-17-2006, 01:21 PM
Because everything is ultimately one, the collective has primacy over the individual. Hegel's State has no room for the idea of individual rights or a liberal theory of the State; instead it provides an ethical underpinning for totalitarianism. The State is an independent, self-sustaining, superorganism made up of men and having a purpose and will of its own. . . .
Obedience to the will of the State is the only way for a man to be true to his rational self, because the State is the true self of the individual. Freedom, the right to act rationally, consists in acting in conformity with the orders of the government. The State has supreme right against the individual whose highest duty is to submerge himself into the State. Hegel calls for an antidemocratic authoritarian State that has absolute right over its component members precisely in order to attain maximal freedom.
I have credited Hegel numerous times in the past as my inspiration. Plato, Aristotle, and MacIntyre also deserve mention.
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