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Petr
01-21-2006, 03:21 PM
Ah - this is how the clergymen of past ages used to speak in the West as well! Modern PC mealy-mouthing clerical eunuchs look so pathetic compared to this.

Russian Orthodox authorities wrote this letter to the mayor of Moscow to protest a construction of a Hare Krishna temple - and this is taken from an Indian website, for Hindus around the world have become pretty peeved by this firm rejection!


http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1136261324


Actual Letter to Moscow Mayor from Bigotted Russian Archbishop

Posted January 2, 2006
Hindu Council UK
MOSCOW, RUSSIA, November 29, 2005
Hindu Press International

Following is the entire letter sent by the Archbishop Nikon to the Mayor of Moscow protesting the construction of a temple to Lord Krishna in Moscow:

FROM:
ORTHODOX CHURCH
Moscow Patriarchate
Ufa Eparchy
29 Sochinskaya street, Ufa, 450103, RUSSIA phone +7 (3472) 724990, fax (3472) 711226
November 29, 2005

TO:
Mayor of Moscow
Y. M. Luzhkov

Dear Mr. Luzhkov,

Situation with the construction of Krishna "temple" in Moscow does not fail to keep us thoroughly surprised for the last two years. One might fear that this satanic obscenity is destined to be built right in the heart of the Orthodox Christian country of Russia - and yet, all of a sudden, not only due to the mass outcry of the people, but -- miraculously! -- even due to imperfections in the Russian secular law the construction of this citadel of idolatry has become impossible.

Sec tarians and various so-called "human rights activists," whose activity for some reason is always anti-Russian and anti-Orthodox, are exerting unprecedented pressure on you as they did last year, and so does the USA - the pillar of "democracy" and the foremost international lobby of various cults. Under the circumstances, you may well be tempted to yield to the pressure and to fulfill the demand of Krishna followers to build their idolatrous temple for Krishna.

But we are requesting you to ponder deeply on who this "god" Krishna really is, who is worshipped by all these almost "angelic," "benevolent" people who do not smoke, do not drink, do not eat meat, who "care" so nicely for the homeless by feeding them with idolatrous food and who may seem to work so laboriously and so voluntarily for the benefit of Moscow?

Krishna ("black" in Sanskrit) has many faces, and all of them are abominable. Here is just one of them: "I see in Your body many, many arms, b ellies, mouths and eyes, expanded everywhere, without limit. I see You with blazing fire coming forth from Your mouth, burning this entire universe by Your own radiance. All the planets with their demigods are disturbed at seeing Your great form, with its many faces, eyes, arms, thighs, legs, and bellies and Your many terrible teeth; and as they are disturbed, so am I. Our chief soldiers are rushing into Your fearful mouths. And some I see trapped with heads smashed between Your teeth."

And on top of it, this "nice god" reclines on a bed of snakes.

This disgusting appearance is fully concordant with his own self-description: "I am Yama, the lord of death. I am all-devouring death, the great destroyer of the worlds, and I have come here to destroy all people."

However, even human-like appearance of Krishna reveals an equally repugnant scene - a livid, plumpish, effeminate and lascivious youth.

For Christians, Jews and Muslims, for whom it is commanded: "I [am] the LORD thy God. Thou shalt have none other gods before me" (De. 5:6-7) and "For all the gods of the nations [are] idols: but the LORD made the heavens." (Ps. 96:5) The satanic identity of Krishna is obvious from his own words: "Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me."

Respected Mr. Luzhkov - can you really allow the idolatrous disgrace to be erected for the glory of this wicked and malicious "god" Krishna? The construction of this Krishna "temple" is a blatant offense of our religious feelings, and an insult to the millennial religious culture of Russia, where the overwhelming majority of people, Orthodox Christians and Muslims, consider Krishna an evil demon, the personified power of hell opposing God. It is shown that even for Buddhists, Krishna is a negative figure, the head of black demons. Sikhs and Jains also consider him the most formidable demon.

Of course, modern Russia is a secular state, based on secular laws. But can these laws screen our peoples from the judgment of God? Can the Russian Constitution abolish our common responsibility for our acts before God? The Holy Scripture attests that there have been quite a few periods of "religious pluralism" and the equality of "rights" of the followers of various "religious denominations ." We have already mentioned to you in our first letter what had happened to the united Jewish state after Solomon allowed for the construction of various pagan temples in the city Jerusalem: "...and the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, and had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded. Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant." (1Ki.11:11)

Let us cite two more instructive passages from a whole many of kind, as described in the Old Testament: "Ahab the son of Omri reigned over Israel in Samaria twenty and two years. and he reared up an altar for Baal in the house of Baal, which he had built in Samaria. And Ahab ma de a grove; and Ahab did more to provoke the LORD God of Israel to anger than all the kings of Israel that were before him." (1Ki.16:29-33). "Manasseh ... reigned in Jerusalem, he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them... . And he set a carved image ... in the house of God." (2Chr.33:1-7)

But their worship was not a triumph of religious democracy, but the "EVIL IN THE SIGHT OF THE LORD" (1Ki.16:30) and "ABOMINATIONS" (2Chr.33:2), for which not only the idolater kings, but all of their citizens paid a heavy price. In the first case, they suffered from a most severe drought which lasted for 3.5 years, and then Ahab was killed in a war with Syrians. In the second instance, "Wherefore the LORD brought upon them the captains of the host of the king of Assyria, which took Manasseh among the thorns, and bound him with fetters, and carried him to Babylon." (2Chr. 33:11).

How much has Russia already suffered due to our sins in the former century? But have we got less crime and unlawfulness?! No, unfortunately. People has become as if blind and deprived of all intelligence, they engross in sins, they separate themselves from God's commands by their own earthly laws, they utterly d isregard history of the past and commit the same blunders over and over again. The bitter words of Isaiah the Prophet, which he spoke over 2.500 years ago, now seem to be spoken just for our sake: "Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD. Why should ye be stricken any more? Ye will revolt more and more." (Isa. 1:4-5).

Some are telling us that Russia is on the way to prosperity, but the country is actually dying away in childlessness, in wanton promiscuity, in alcohol and drug addiction, millions of babies are killed by abortions, selected individuals become affluent while millions of Russians border on poverty, terrorist attacks strike relentlessly, separatists, who want to tear Russia apart, do not slacken, and sectarians are multiplying, who consider Brooklyn, Salt Lake City and Indian ashrams their homeland. They hate their own culture and history and think service to their s tate and its defense are a grave sin.

So do we really have to add more to the load of our unlawfulness by building idolatrous temples for demons on the land where they are still hated, in the Russian land where the clouds of faithlessness and libertinism have not yet covered the light of Christian faith? Therefore, we once again request you on behalf of all Orthodox Christians of Bashkir Autonomous Republic to not allow the construction of the satanic Krishna temple in Moscow.


Respectfully yours, Nikon, Archbishop Nikon of Ufa and Sterlitamak, Derector of the Ufa Eparchy of the Russian Orthodox Church.

Petr
01-21-2006, 03:49 PM
And a rotten representative of post-Christian Western Europe panders to his Hindu voters and condemns the forthright actions of the Russian Orthodox church (spit!) :

http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=NEWS&id=1137700946


Livingstone speaks to Moscow Mayor about harassment of Russian Hindus

Posted January 19, 2006
Hindu Forum UK


The Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone handed over letters expressing concern about the alleged harassment of Russian Hindus by the Moscow Government and the Russian Orthodox Church to the visiting Mayor of Moscow, Yuri Luzhkov in London on 14th January, even as British Parliamentarians led by Ashok Kumar MP, Lord Dholakia and Baroness Flather got ready to host the launch of the Defend Russian Hindus campaign at the House of Commons on 18th January.

“The Mayor of London has successfully led social integration and community cohesion in London which is one of the most diverse and cosmopolitan cities in the world,” said Ramesh Kallidai, secretary general of the Hindu Forum of Britain. “When we asked him to hand over our letters of concern to the Mayor of Moscow who was attending the Russian Winter Festival at Trafalgar Square, Mr Livingstone immediately agreed in keeping with the traditions of justice and freedom that London continues to stand for.”

Following the meeting between the two Mayors, British Parliamentarians and members of the Hindu, Jewish, Christian and Muslim communities will adopt a resolution at the Defend Russian Hindus launch at the House of Commons, urging the Moscow Government to stop harassment of minority religions in Russia. Parliamentarians from all three parties will later hand a copy of this resolution to the Russian Ambassador in London.

In January 2004, the Mayor of Moscow Yuri Luzhkov signed a decree allocating land in northwest Moscow for construction of a new temple in place of an older Hindu temple which had been demolished for construction of a commercial venture. This was followed by mass protests orchestrated by the Russian Orthodox Church against the building of the temple in the newly allocated land. In October 2005 the Mayor repealed the decree and cancelled the allocation of land and further ordered the removal of a temporary Hindu shrine that devotees had erected from the newly allocated land. During this time, miscreants who had heard of Orthodox opposition to Russian Hindus entered a Hindu temple and beat 30 people including women and children with iron rods, who were hospitalised with fractured skulls.

“The only Hindu temple in Moscow had been demolished last year, leaving some 15,000 Indians and 10,000 Russian followers of Hinduism without a place of worship,” said Ramesh Kallidai, secretary general of the Hindu Forum of Britain, one of the organisations hosting the meeting. “Now the Mayor of Moscow and the Russian Orthodox Church are together trying to stop Hindus from having a place of their own.”

Earlier, Archbishop Nikon of the Russian Orthodox Church had described Lord Krishna as an “evil demon” and the “personified power of hell opposing God” in a letter to the Mayor of Moscow urging him to stop the construction of a Hindu temple in Moscow.

“It is unbelievable that in a country as industrialised and modern as Russia, we are seeing religious intolerance of a level reminiscent of medieval times,” continued Ramesh Kallidai. “We urge people of all faith traditions to intervene and stop this kind of outrageous behaviour against the peace-loving Hindus of Russia. The international communities continue to monitor the situation closely.”

Other Parliamentarians attending the Defend Russian Hindus reception hosted by Ashok Kumar MP include Lord Dholakia, Baroness Shreela Flather, Dr Phyllis Starkey MP, John Grogan MP, Angela Watkinson MP, John McDonnell MP, Shailesh Vara MP, Piara Khabra MP, Jim Dobbin MP and Mark Lazarowicz MP . Parliamentarians from all three parties are expected to join members of the Hindu, Jewish and Christian communities on a visit to Russia later this year to express their concerns on the treatment of minority faith communities.

...

Kodos
01-22-2006, 06:11 AM
Who cares as long as they stay out of the airports...

Starr
01-22-2006, 06:36 AM
God Damn, that is quite a letter:222:

The satanic identity of Krishna is obvious from his own words: "Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me."

"Satanic identity" in these words? I assume I am missing something.:confused:

Aren't there greater enemies they could be bitching about?

Lenny
01-22-2006, 07:12 AM
Refusing to let a small, non-hostile, non-threatening group like Hindus build some small temple is stupid.


For Christians, Jews and Muslims, for whom it is commanded: "I [am] the LORD thy God. Thou shalt have none other gods before me"The construction of this Krishna "temple" is a blatant offense of our religious feelings, and an insult to the millennial religious culture of Russia, where the overwhelming majority of people, Orthodox Christians and Muslims, consider Krishna an evil demon, the personified power of hell opposing God.What a damn fool, he speaks well of muslims, naming them as fellow countrymen and allies of sorts, while condemning Hindus. And you paint this man as some kind of "Christian hero" Petr? A pro-muslim individual who happens to speak against Hinduism. I think you and he both got your priorities mixed up

Starr
01-22-2006, 07:16 AM
What a damn fool, he speaks well of muslims naming them as fellow countrymen while condemning Hindus.

LOL. I was thinking of the exact same thing when I referred to greater enemies. He is obviously not too scared of being politically incorrect, so it must be that he is either just really stupid or is afraid to take on Muslims.

Gleb
01-22-2006, 08:29 AM
LOL. I was thinking of the exact same thing when I referred to greater enemies. He is obviously not too scared of being politically incorrect, so it must be that he is either just really stupid or is afraid to take on Muslims.

There is a huge Musilim population in Tatarstan, with which Russians have been living peacefully for centuries. In fact I do not know any other example where two religions being so different could live together for such a long time and having mutual respect for each other. Being from Bashkortostan himself it was just a friendly gesture to the Muslim majority of Bashkortostan. Maybe it is just politics to gain sympathy, maybe it is a sincere opinion.

Kodos
01-22-2006, 08:41 AM
There is a huge Musilim population in Tatarstan, with which Russians have been living peacefully for centuries.

Ie descendents of the Mongols( who even after they technically became Muslim went on another rampage under Tamerlane where they killed mostly other muslims)... I doubt( and this is my uneducated guess) they are really much more muslim then the Albanians.

Gleb
01-22-2006, 08:41 AM
What a damn fool, he speaks well of muslims, naming them as fellow countrymen and allies of sorts, while condemning Hindus. And you paint this man as some kind of "Christian hero" Petr? A pro-muslim individual who happens to speak against Hinduism. I think you and he both got your priorities mixed up

Muslim Tatars are allies, they are good citizens, never caused any problems to Russians. Now Hindus have never been a part of Russian history and peoples, the only sizeable population that believes in Hinduism lives probably somewhere in Altai by the Chinese border, why the hell do they need a church in Moscow? Once one church is built it will cause a wave of other religions to want to build their churches. This clergyman is doing the right thing, we simply do not need a precedent like this.

Gleb
01-22-2006, 08:50 AM
There is a huge Musilim population in Tatarstan, with which Russians have been living peacefully for centuries.

Ie descendents of the Mongols( who even after they technically became Muslim went on another rampage under Tamerlane where they killed mostly other muslims)... I doubt( and this is my uneducated guess) they are really much more muslim then the Albanians.

No, no, Volga Tatars are not Mongols, they have been under the horde for quite a while, but most historians argue that it didn't change much their culture or appearance. Volga Tatars are descendants of Bulgars, before 18th century their region was called Volga Bulgaria and not Tatarstan. They were converted to Islam by an Arab Ibn Fadlan in 10th century, you might have seen a movie called the 13th warrior with Antonio Banderas? Well that was the guy who converted them.
A lot of Tatars are very religious people, in fact percentage of religious people amongst them would be much higher than amongst Russians, but their form of Islam is not expansionistic in nature, you would never see them declaring Jihad, when they get drafted in army the go and fight with Chechens just like Russians do.

Gleb
01-22-2006, 08:53 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatars#Volga_Tatars

Famous tatars -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/FamousTatars.JPG

Nikolai
02-06-2009, 09:04 PM
“It is unbelievable that in a country as industrialised and modern as Russia, we are seeing religious intolerance of a level reminiscent of medieval times,”
Petr,

After reading a statement like that, how could you not want to convert to Orthodoxy? :rofl:

Captain Marinesko
02-06-2009, 09:55 PM
No, no, Volga Tatars are not Mongols, they have been under the horde for quite a while, but most historians argue that it didn't change much their culture or appearance. Volga Tatars are descendants of Bulgars, before 18th century their region was called Volga Bulgaria and not Tatarstan. They were converted to Islam by an Arab Ibn Fadlan in 10th century, you might have seen a movie called the 13th warrior with Antonio Banderas? Well that was the guy who converted them.
A lot of Tatars are very religious people, in fact percentage of religious people amongst them would be much higher than amongst Russians, but their form of Islam is not expansionistic in nature, you would never see them declaring Jihad, when they get drafted in army the go and fight with Chechens just like Russians do.

This has to do with a popular reformist movement that existed in and around Tatarstan called Jadidism. It began sometime in the mid to late 19th century if memory serves me correctly. It should be noted however, that many Tatars volunteered to fight in the first and perhaps second Chechen war, but from what I learned, this had little to do with Islam or Jihad.