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Hakluyt
01-22-2006, 05:24 PM
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-01/hu-iad011706.php

Indigenous Amazonians display core understanding of geometry

Findings suggest basic geometrical knowledge is a universal constituent of the human mind

Researchers in France and at Harvard University have found that isolated indigenous peoples deep in the Amazon readily grasp basic concepts of geometry such as points, lines, parallelism and right angles, and can use distance, angle and other relationships in maps to locate hidden objects. The results suggest that geometry is a core set of intuitions present in all humans, regardless of their language or schooling.

The study of geometrical understanding among the Mundurukú, who live in remote areas along the Cururu River in Brazil, is described this week in the journal Science.

"Although there has been a lot of research on spatial maps, navigation and sense of direction, there is very little work on the conceptual representations in geometry," says co-author Stanislas Dehaene of the Collčge de France in Paris. "What is meant by 'point,' 'line,' 'parallel,' 'square' versus 'rectangle'? All are highly idealized concepts never met in physical reality. Our work is a first start in the exploration of these concepts."

The work by Dehaene and colleagues suggests that such concepts are largely universal across humans.

"While geometrical concepts can be enriched by culture-specific devices like maps, or the terms of a natural language, underneath this variability lies a shared set of geometrical concepts," says co-author Elizabeth S. Spelke, a professor of psychology in Harvard's Faculty of Arts and Sciences. "These concepts allow adults and children with no formal education, and minimal spatial language, to categorize geometrical forms and to use geometrical relationships to represent the surrounding spatial layout."

Dehaene, Spelke and co-authors Véronique Izard and Pierre Pica developed and administered two different sets of tests during visits to the Mundurukú in 2004 and 2005. Their first test, designed to assess comprehension of basic concepts such as points, lines, parallelism, figure, congruence and symmetry, presented arrays of six images, one of which was subtly dissimilar. For instance, five comparable trapezoids might be matched with a sixth non-trapezoidal quadrilateral of similar size. The Mundurukú were then asked, in their own language, which of the images was "weird" or "ugly."

"If the Mundurukú share with us the conceptual primitives of geometry," the researchers write, "they should infer the intended geometrical concept behind each array and therefore select the discrepant image."

Mundurukú subjects, even those as young as six years old, chose the correct image an average 66.8 percent of the time, showing competence with basic concepts of topology, Euclidean geometry and basic geometrical figures. The performance of both Mundurukú adults and children on the task rivaled that of American children in separate testing done by the scientists, while the performance of American adults was significantly higher.

Dehaene, Spelke and colleagues also administered an abstract map test where subjects were given a simple diagram to identify which of three containers arrayed in a triangle on the ground hid an object. Both Mundurukú adults and children were able to relate the geometrical information on the map to geometrical relationships in the environment, attaining an overall success rate of 71 percent that again matched the performance of American children while lagging American adults.

The superior performance of Western adults suggests that formal education enhances or refines geometrical concepts. Nevertheless, the report concludes, "the spontaneous understanding of geometrical concepts and maps by this remote human community provides evidence that core geometrical knowledge ... is a universal constituent of the human mind."

The study of human geometrical knowledge has a long history, dating back at least to Socrates' probing of the intuitions of an uneducated slave in a Greek household, chronicled by Plato approximately 2,400 years ago.

"Many of the references in our paper are from Plato, Riemann and Poincaré," Dehaene says. "What excited us was the ability to ask experimentally some questions which belong to a very long history of questions about the foundations of geometry."

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Dehaene, Izard, Pica and Spelke's work was supported by INSERM, CNRS, the National Institutes of Health and the McDonnell Foundation

Fade the Butcher
01-22-2006, 05:45 PM
Mathematics is a social construct.

Ahknaton
01-23-2006, 01:19 AM
I wonder to what extent certain architectural forms (e.g. pyramids) could be said to be innate, given that they are found in many different locations across the world? The same is true for certain motifs (e.g. the swastika) which has been found on all inhabited continents.

Petr
01-23-2006, 04:53 AM
Plato's theory of pre-existent forms vindicated? Creationist claim that human mind differs categorically from animals vindicated?

:)

Petr

Fade the Butcher
01-23-2006, 07:56 AM
This is a bad day for anti-racist mathematics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-racist_mathematics).

Jonathan
01-23-2006, 08:26 AM
I remember reading a piece(well actually the guy sitting beside me on the bus was reading it, I just saw it) saying that the people who built the pyraminds or such must have known the size of the earth and the positions of certain stars et al. It was a while ago so I don't remember much, but maybe some of you have heard about it?

I also read a piece(I actually read this one myself, not sure where though) that claimed that certain ancient people had theories that there were magnetic flieds and lines going across the world, and where these lines met, were special "power points" where Stonehenge, and Newgrange et al. were built for religious purposes. Anyone else read about it?

OVERWATCH
01-23-2006, 08:31 AM
This is a bad day for anti-racist mathematics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-racist_mathematics).

Yes, we all remember the manifold woes foisted upon my European brothers with the introduction of Arabic numerals, which led to the failure of many generations of Europids who were incapable of doing math in a way which was biased in favour of Arabs. :mad:

I therefore demand that math be taught using both Roman numerals, as well as Arabic ones, in the interest of respecting ethnocultural differences in mathematics.

Ahknaton
01-23-2006, 08:49 AM
I remember reading a piece(well actually the guy sitting beside me on the bus was reading it, I just saw it) saying that the people who built the pyraminds or such must have known the size of the earth and the positions of certain stars et al. It was a while ago so I don't remember much, but maybe some of you have heard about it?
Yeah I've read something similiar. The Pyramids at Giza are supposedly laid out in the same configuration as the stars of Orion's belt. Also, the ratio of the circumference of the base of the Great Pyramid to it's height is almost exactly pi (this is why the sides don't slope at exactly 45 degrees). This is odd because pi supposedly wasn't known until the time of the ancient Greeks.

One theory is that the pyramid is actually a representation of the northern hemisphere. There's some numerical relationship between the size of the pyramid and the equator, but I can't remember the details. Anyone else? :)

Hakluyt
01-23-2006, 04:28 PM
This is a bad day for anti-racist mathematics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-racist_mathematics).
Yep, that's what I had in mind reading this, yet another blow for the Gould legacy.

I wonder though, can anyone summarise Spengler's ideas on the cultural element of mathematics (or rather what he interpreted Liebniz' position to be)? I remember it being extremely relativist but can't be bothered to sift through him again..

Fade the Butcher
01-24-2006, 12:44 AM
I remember him writing something about algebra being an expression of the Magian mind, but algebra had been around since the days of Diophantes of Alexandria.

Fade the Butcher
01-24-2006, 12:46 AM
I remember reading a piece(well actually the guy sitting beside me on the bus was reading it, I just saw it) saying that the people who built the pyraminds or such must have known the size of the earth and the positions of certain stars et al. This doesn't strike me as being beyond their abilities.

Petr
01-25-2006, 10:00 AM
"Creation-Evolution Headlines" comments on the issue:

http://creationsafaris.com/crev200601.htm#20060122a


Where Did Humans Learn Geometry?

01/22/2006


In Plato’s dialogue Meno, Socrates illustrated his view that certain foundations of knowledge are innate rather than learned.1 He took an untutored slave boy and, with a series of sketches in the sand, got the boy to deduce the Pythagorean Theorem by his own reasoning (see Encarta).

In a modern version, Harvard scientists found that basic concepts of geometry are understood by untutored tribespeople of the Amazon rainforest. LiveScience reports:

While high school freshmen sometimes struggle with parallelograms and the Pythagorean Theorem, people deep in the Amazon quickly grasp some basic concepts of geometry.

Although these indigenous tribes had never seen a protractor, compass, or even a ruler, a new study found they understood parallelism and right angles and can use distance, angles, and other relationships in maps to locate hidden objects.

The finding suggests all humans, regardless of language or schooling, possess a core set of geometrical intuitions.
(Emphasis added in all quotes.)

Their research was published in Science.2 The authors referred to the Meno story at the end of their paper, feeling they had done Socrates one better – because his slave boy already possessed Greek language and familiarity with lines and shapes, and their Amazonian tribe did not. The researchers did not speculate, however, on how this uniquely human capability evolved:

Our experiments, in contrast [to Socrates], provide evidence that geometrical knowledge arises in humans independently of instruction, experience with maps or measurement devices, or mastery of a sophisticated geometrical language. This conclusion is consistent with paleoanthropological evidence and with previous demonstrations of a right-hemisphere competence for nonverbal tests of geometry in split-brain patients. Further research is needed to establish to what extent this core knowledge is shared with other animal species and whether it is available even in infancy or is acquired progressively during the first years of life. There is little doubt that geometrical knowledge can be substantially enriched by cultural inventions such as maps, mathematical tools, or the geometrical terms of language. Beneath this fringe of cultural variability, however, the spontaneous understanding of geometrical concepts and maps by this remote human community provides evidence that core geometrical knowledge, like basic arithmetic, is a universal constituent of the human mind. Constance Holden in Science3 also wrote up this story about possible “cognitive universals” but mentioned a couple of skeptics who think interpretation of the results is difficult. Even so, they seem to point to at least a “general reasoning ability” that has only been demonstrated in humans. Cognitive neuropsychologists are very interested in the study.

-------------------------------------------------

1 In Socratic philosophy, Truth (with a capital T) was self-existent, and was intuitively known – merely recalled – by humans, not learned by experience. Socrates argued against the world of flux portrayed by Heraclitus, who taught that a man could never step in the same river twice. To Socrates and Plato, by contrast, experience could only speak of material objects, not abstractions or concepts. Material objects may be in a state of flux but Truth is eternal.

2 Dahaene et al., “Core Knowledge of Geometry in an Amazonian Indigene Group,” Science, 20 January 2006: Vol. 311. no. 5759, pp. 381 - 384, DOI: 10.1126/science.1121739.

3 Constance Holden, “Hunter-Gatherers Grasp Geometry,” Science, 20 January 2006: Vol. 311. no. 5759, p. 317, DOI: 10.1126/science.311.5759.317a


Pythagoras, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Cicero, the Stoics and many other great thinkers in the classical world – probably the majority of the famous philosophers (Democritus and Lucretius being exceptions) – believed in intelligent design. They were non-evangelical, pagan philosophers to whom the intrinsic order and design of the universe and life was self-evident. Their concepts of the Designer differed, but they all pointed to design as coming from an intelligent source.

Most of the classical philosophers were also absolutists. They believed that outside of the mind of man there existed an unchanging truth beyond the mere objects accessible to the senses. Evolutionists will find little support for relativism and materialism among the ancients. History does not support their contention that intelligent design is a conspiracy by evangelical Christians. The burden of proof should be upon the modern sophists who claim geometry is an artifact of the mindless, materialistic process of natural selection.

So the stone-age indigenous peoples of the rain forest comprehend geometry. Fascinating. Tell us, Darwinists, how did this evolve? Be sure to include your axioms.