Uniculturalism

[Fade the Butcher]

My response to a thread over at Stormfront:

I agree and have observed its destructive force; however, I was wondering what you guys would think about a society with one culture, but many races. Would it be successful? Is this impossible to begin with?This is a novel idea. A few practical suggestions: we should teach our blacks the English language, convert them to Protestant Christianity, enroll them in integrated schools with our children, instill liberal political principles in them, allow them to adopt our surnames, encourage them to adopt our customs like celebrating Christmas, get them to participate in the sports we enjoy like baseball and football, convince them to eat our cuisine and so on. The differences that exist between blacks and whites will surely evaporate once this is accomplished, as such differences are not intrinsic in nature, but are attributable entirely to cultural and environmental factors.

[Péter]

My response to a thread over at Stormfront:

This is a novel idea. A few practical suggestions: we should teach our blacks the English language, convert them to Protestant Christianity, enroll them in integrated schools with our children, instill liberal political principles in them, allow them to adopt our surnames, encourage them to adopt our customs like celebrating Christmas, get them to participate in the sports we enjoy like baseball and football, convince them to eat our cuisine and so on. The differences that exist between blacks and whites will surely evaporate once this is accomplished, as such differences are not intrinsic in nature, but are attributable entirely to cultural and environmental factors.

Such a Marxist idea is doomed for failure--and history has proven this to be the case.

Fun fact: The Soviets imprisoned geneticists who backed evidence for biological determinism, as it did not correspond to "their version" of reality.

[Leif]

Such a Marxist idea is doomed for failure--and history has proven this to be the case.

The idea of environmental conditioning predates Marxism.

Fun fact: The Soviets imprisoned geneticists who backed evidence for biological determinism, as it did not correspond to "their version" of reality.

Fun fact: Today's knowledge of genetics was not known when these conflicts occurred in the Soviet scientific community.

Fun fact: Soviet Geneticists, especially a particular one named Vavilov, were wasting resources by buying rare botanical specimens with little use for Soviet agriculture, which was the purpose of the Lenin All-Union Academy of Agricultural Sciences. Because of Vavilov's ineptitude, he was removed from his position as head of the academy. Eventually he was arrested by the NKVD for criminal wrecking.

This is a novel idea. A few practical suggestions: we should teach our blacks the English language, convert them to Protestant Christianity, enroll them in integrated schools with our children, instill liberal political principles in them, allow them to adopt our surnames, encourage them to adopt our customs like celebrating Christmas, get them to participate in the sports we enjoy like baseball and football, convince them to eat our cuisine and so on. The differences that exist between blacks and whites will surely evaporate once this is accomplished, as such differences are not intrinsic in nature, but are attributable entirely to cultural and environmental factors.

What differences remain between 'blacks' and 'whites'?

[Jonathan]

I was wondering what you guys would think about a society with one culture, but many races.
No problem (assuming that the culture is OK itself).

Would it be successful? Is this impossible to begin with?
So long as the different racial groups within the society don't start to identify with their racial group only.

[jcs]

I was wondering what you guys would think about a society with one culture, but many races. Would it be successful? Is this impossible to begin with?
There are basically two factors working to keep races seperate: geographical isolation and culture. In this age of easy transportation, the former is removed; to remove the latter is to rid us of races.
Race is nothing but genes without culture--who would want to preserve a few genes just for the sake of preserving genes? One can unite a people around shared values, but genes? Have fun trying to do that.

[Gleb]

Fun fact: The Soviets imprisoned geneticists who backed evidence for biological determinism, as it did not correspond to "their version" of reality.

Could you elaborate on this, please? I have never heard of this and curious to know (no sarcasm).

[Gleb]

What do you think about Cuba? Is it not a good example of multiple races living under one culture? Their population is extremely mixed and even the whitest of them have some black ancestry.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

From the Cubans I know personally they are very much race aware. Having what they call "Spanish" ancestry is the most sought after pedigree. Pale skin is a bonus. While there are negroes and sorted mullato populations there are no indians to speak off since the original Spanish conquistadores worked and diseased them off the island. So Cubans mock the rest of Latin America as "Arrow chuckers". I have worked with several Cubans also here in Spain and one of them is not proud at all on her mjullato grandmother. Its almost comical in a caste sense of way.

[Gleb]

From the Cubans I know personally they are very much race aware. Having what they call "Spanish" ancestry is the most sought after pedigree. Pale skin is a bonus. While there are negroes and sorted mullato populations there are no indians to speak off since the original Spanish conquistadores worked and diseased them off the island. So Cubans mock the rest of Latin America as "Arrow chuckers". I have worked with several Cubans also here in Spain and one of them is not proud at all on her mjullato grandmother. Its almost comical in a caste sense of way.

Hmm, interesting. Because I used to know a black guy from Cuba (the best black person I've ever met) and he was telling me that there was no discrimination of any kind there, everyone is just Cuban. He was telling me about his former Cuban girlfriends and I asked him whether he prefers girls who are Spanish in appearance or African, it looked like he didn't even understand the question and said that it didn't matter as long as she was Cuban. Maybe it was wishful thinking, I don't know.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Maybe I just got lucky in the Cubans that I met :D
All in all, white blood is in high demand in South America. Most leading classes are like white strongholds who hate mixing with mestizos.

[Kodos]

This is a novel idea. A few practical suggestions: we should teach our blacks the English language, convert them to Protestant Christianity, enroll them in integrated schools with our children, instill liberal political principles in them, allow them to adopt our surnames, encourage them to adopt our customs like celebrating Christmas, get them to participate in the sports we enjoy like baseball and football, convince them to eat our cuisine and so on.

Wasn't "the black community" much better off in terms of crime literacy legitimacy etc before the Great Society and Civil Rights Movement? What happened exactly in your opinion.

[Fade the Butcher]

Wasn't "the black community" much better off in terms of crime literacy legitimacy etc before the Great Society and Civil Rights Movement? What happened exactly in your opinion.In crime and legitimacy, yes. I am not sure about literacy. What happened? There was a shift in our culture towards expressive individualism that has had a degenerating effect on all races, blacks in particular.

[Sinclair]

So, what single culture would it be? Would, say, some sort of "Esperanto" culture be manufactured?

[Fade the Butcher]

America is a lot less culturally diverse than it is commonly portrayed to be. That was my point. Even blacks and whites living in the South largely share the same culture.

[Sinclair]

But there's still more than one culture. I bet the Irish would be kinda pissed if told they had to give up shamrocks and parades, eh?

[Fade the Butcher]

But there's still more than one culture. I bet the Irish would be kinda pissed if told they had to give up shamrocks and parades, eh?These people are almost entirely indistinguishable from other white Americans. There is no "Irish-American culture" in America. It says a lot about how assimilated they are when all you can point to is St. Patrick's Day (which, in any case, has been appropriated by the whole nation).

[Sinclair]

These people are almost entirely indistinguishable from other white Americans. There is no "Irish-American culture" in America. It says a lot about how assimilated they are when all you can point to is St. Patrick's Day (which, in any case, has been appropriated by the whole nation).

Well, yeah, doesn't mean they won't get pissed about it.

And up here in Canada, the Quebecois would have a total fit.

[Péter]

Could you elaborate on this, please? I have never heard of this and curious to know (no sarcasm).

You'll get a kick out of this. Enjoy!


The crisis in Soviet agriculture

By the late 1920s, however, the intellectual climate in the Soviet Union had already deteriorated. The situation facing Soviet scientists and geneticists in particular dramatically worsened.

In 1929 the eminent Soviet population geneticist S.S. Chetverikov was arrested and exiled to the Urals. He was never to work in his chosen field again. Chetverikov's arrest coincided with a developing crisis in agriculture.

From the early 1920s, Trotsky and the Left Opposition had warned of the dangers of fostering the growth of a layer of rich peasants at the expense of agriculture as a whole and of industrial development.

By the end of the decade, the Stalinist bureaucracy, faced with the withholding of produce by wealthy peasants, and armed revolts in the countryside, turned to a brutal policy of forced collectivisation. Peasants burned their crops and killed their animals rather than submit to the orders of the Stalinist regime. Agricultural output plummetted.

In response to the crisis, Stalin began to demand that geneticists develop crop plants more rapidly to solve the problems of famine. Careful scientific work was sacrificed to political expediency. The Stalinist bureaucrats became increasingly impatient with the painstaking methods that scientific breeding required. The actual crossbreeding of varieties and the subsequent testing of the new plants could take as long as a decade.

The Soviet bureaucrats wanted quicker results and turned to breeders who told them what they wanted to hear, no matter how implausible their methods. Under these conditions, T.D. Lysenko, a plant breeder from Odessa, was promoted to the highest posts in the field, destroying many of the gains made by Soviet science.

Lysenko promised a rapid increase in crop yields. He is best known for his fraudulent claims that yield could be increased by a process he called "vernalisation". Contrary to scientific knowledge at the time, Lysenko asserted that one species could be directly converted to another by subjecting it to external influences.

Lysenko claimed that through vernalisation one species of wheat--winter wheat--could be transformed into another--spring wheat. He germinated the winter wheat and then subjecting it to very low temperatures to halt its growth until it was sown in spring. Lysenko believed that the shock of the cold would cause the transformation from one species to another, and produce greater yields.

Vernalisation was introduced on state farms without any testing. A plant breeder from Vavilov's institute set up a five-year test from 1931 to 1935, proving that vernalisation had no effect on yields. Yet these scientific results were ignored, and Lysenko's followers went on to make more and more grandiose claims--that wheat could be transformed into rye, barley into oats and cabbages into swedes.

Lamarck resurrected

Lysenko's crackpot ideas were not subjected to scientific scrutiny either in the Soviet Union or internationally. He was elevated not because his ideas had any scientific validity, but because his claims fitted the propaganda requirements of the Stalinist bureaucracy. Lysenko's ideas of rapidly expanding agricultural production dovetailed with the falsified statistics used by Stalin to demonstrate the advances under his regime.

Lysenko was effectively resurrecting the theories of Lamarck--the French biologist who, prior to Darwin, claimed that evolution was the result of acquired characteristics. For example, Lamarck argued that the neck of a giraffe had lengthened during its lifetime to reach the top leaves of trees and this characteristic was then passed on to the next generation.

Darwin demonstrated that evolution was a process of natural selection over many generations. In the case of the giraffe, those individuals born with longer necks were better able to feed themselves and therefore survive in the environment of the African grasslands.

Lysenko had a complete disdain for any theoretical questions. He wrote: "Can such a situation arise in science where theory has made some kind of advance, a step forward, but practice derives no benefit from it? From childhood I have never understood how it could happen, and never tolerate people trying to demonstrate to me that such fruitless theoretical achievements with no practical value are worth anything at all."

The job of attempting to theoretically justify Lysenko's work was taken up by Prezent from Leningrad University. He claimed that Lysenko was the direct successor of Darwin.

Prezent accused the geneticists of being "Morgano-Mendelian-Weissmannites". In this denunciation Prezent was referring to three great scientists who had laid the foundation for modern evolutionary biology and genetics.

August Weissmann working at the end of last century, determined that chromosomes controlled inheritance in the cell. Gregor Mendel was an Austrian monk who discovered the laws of inheritance in the 1850s. His work was ignored at that time and only rediscovered 45 years later. The most significant of the Mendelians to emerge in this period was T.H. Morgan, an American scientist who pioneered the use of the Drosophila fruit fly in genetics and showed the importance of mutations in evolution.

Prezent's attacks were based on such scientific ignorance that some of Lysenko's supporters even denied the existence of chromosomes. As for genes, they were denounced as "bourgeois constructs".

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/feb1999/sov-gen.shtml

[Fade the Butcher]

And up here in Canada, the Quebecois would have a total fit.Irish-Americans cannot be compared to the Quebecois by any stretch of the imagination, still less Cajuns in Louisiana.

[Sinclair]

Irish-Americans cannot be compared to the Quebecois by any stretch of the imagination, still less Cajuns in Louisiana.

Not comparing them, just sayin'.

[Ixtab]

You'll get a kick out of this. Enjoy!Mr. Yi already debunked this nonsense.

[Péter]

Mr. Yi already debunked this nonsense.

Perhaps you didn't read the contents of what I posted. Perhaps you did--in that case, read it again.

[Ixtab]

Perhaps you didn't read the contents of what I posted. Perhaps you did--in that case, read it again.Read it; it's been debunked.

I will post more about this later.

[Leif]

America is a lot less culturally diverse than it is commonly portrayed to be. That was my point. Even blacks and whites living in the South largely share the same culture.

Mr. Yi agrees while noting the important exception of Mexicans.

Lysenko promised a rapid increase in crop yields. He is best known for his fraudulent claims that yield could be increased by a process he called "vernalisation". Contrary to scientific knowledge at the time, Lysenko asserted that one species could be directly converted to another by subjecting it to external influences.

Lysenko claimed that through vernalisation one species of wheat--winter wheat--could be transformed into another--spring wheat. He germinated the winter wheat and then subjecting it to very low temperatures to halt its growth until it was sown in spring. Lysenko believed that the shock of the cold would cause the transformation from one species to another, and produce greater yields.

Vernalisation was introduced on state farms without any testing. A plant breeder from Vavilov's institute set up a five-year test from 1931 to 1935, proving that vernalisation had no effect on yields. Yet these scientific results were ignored, and Lysenko's followers went on to make more and more grandiose claims--that wheat could be transformed into rye, barley into oats and cabbages into swedes.

This confuses Mr Yi. Either the author is a liar, or a poor researcher. Vernalization worked, it was one of Lysenko's few actual accomplishments acknowledged by Western scientists in the 1940s. Was this practical for large amounts of crops? No. Lysenko himself claimed it was not.Ə ǻÿ

[Gleb]

What's up with all the mongols in your avatars, people?

[Kodos]

Irish-Americans cannot be compared to the Quebecois by any stretch of the imagination, still less Cajuns in Louisiana.

You should watch Boondock Saints.