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View Full Version : Why are dogmatic Darwinists so delusionally self-confident?


Petr
02-09-2008, 06:27 PM
Larry Auster notes something that I too have so often noticed: dogmatic evo-pushers are some of the most hubris-filled tools ever to grace the surface of the earth. (Pride goeth before the fall) They know nothing about the Christian virtue of humility - their worldview is as far away from healthy scepticism and self-doubt as possible.

Evo-preachers like Dawkins are so greatly institutionally protected by the modern secularist society from any serious challenges (evolution is the de facto religion/narrative that secularism uses to justify itself), that they are like some obnoxious pampered brats of inherited wealth who simply cannot imagine what being poor is like - and what's more, cannot even theoretically conceive the possibility that they themselves might become poor some day. Likewise Darwinist materialists scoff at the very notion that their paradigm might be falsified (as it actually has already been, in many different ways).

In a fair fight, dogmatic Darwinists would be easily crushed (that why they no longer like to have open debates with their critics), but just like rich kids are protected by their powerful parents, committed secularist ideologues in media, academia and governments make sure that those ID/creationist gutter punks won't be able to lay their hands on their precious darlings.


Below, Auster shows Dawkins putting forward a mediocre argument, then shows why it's wrong and then notes the ridiculously conceited attitude of evo-propagandists.


http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/009892.html

A Darwinian quiz

(Update Feb 9 1:38 p.m.: I've received quite a few reader responses, pretty much covering the gamut, which I have posted below.)

Please read the following passage from Richard Dawkins's The Ancestor's Tale, p. 592, then see the questions below:

Bombardier beetles of the genus Brachinus are unique, in Dr McGavin's experience, in mixing chemicals to make an explosion. The ingredients are made and held in separate (obviously!) glands. When danger threatens, they are squirted into a chamber near the rear end of the beetle, where they explode, forcing noxious (caustic and boiling-hot) liquid out through a directed nozzle at the enemy. The case is well known to creationists, who love it. They think it is self-evidently impossible to evolve by gradual degrees because the intermediate stages would all explode. I enjoyed demonstrating the error of this argument during my Royal Institution Christmas Lectures for Children, shown on BBC television in 1991. Donning a Second World War helmet, and inviting nervous members of the audience to leave, I mixed hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide, the two ingredients of the bombardier explosion Nothing happened. It didn't even get warm. The explosion requires a catalyst. I raised the concentration of catalyst gradually, which steadily increased the hot whoosh to a satisfactory climax. In nature, the beetle provides the catalyst, and would have had no difficult in gradually, and safely, increasing the dose over evolutionary time.

What do you think of Dawkins's disproof of the anti-Darwinians' argument that the Bombardier beetle's explosive device could not have evolved by gradual, Darwinian processes of minute random mutations and natural selection? Do you think his demonstration and reasoning are persuasive, and, if so, why? Do you think his demonstration and reasoning are not persuasive, and, if so, why?

Please mail your answer to me here, putting "Darwinian quiz" in the subject line.

...

Paul T. writes:

I don't know much about this, but if it's difficult to accept that precisely the two chemical components required for the explosion evolved by chance in the same organism and in just the right way, surely it's even more difficult to accept that just the right chemical catalyst also evolved with them? Instead of removing the difficulty, Dawkins seems to have increased it.

LA replies:

Right--instead of two chemicals to account for, he has to account for three!

...

LA writes:

I thank readers for contributing their thoughts on this. Many points have been made that had not occurred to me. My own main criticism of Dawkins's argument, prior to reading everyone else's (which have influenced my thinking), was as follows:

Dawkins thought that he had hit the bullseye when he revealed to his audience that the two chemicals do not explode in the absense of a catalyst. Whicn means that he thinks the entire anti-Darwinian argument comes down to the idea that the two chemicals would combine and explode, thus killing the beetle, before the ability to target the explosion at an enemy had evolved. Therefore he thought that the need for the catalyst sufficiently refuted the anti-Darwinian objection. But as commenters have pointed out, the main problem is not a pre-mature explosion killing the beetle, the main problem is how the entire multi-part apparatus got put together at all.

Also, what Dawkins' doesn't realize is that the need for the catalyst, far from making the Darwinian evolution of the explosive device plausible, makes it more complicated and harder to explain.

However, the most interesting thing to me about Dawkin's explanation is not that it is inadequate, but how obviously inadequate it is, and, further, that Dawkins smugly believes that this obviously inadequate answer wipes the floor with the anti-Darwinists:

"The case is well known to creationists, who love it. They think it is self-evidently impossible to evolve by gradual degrees because the intermediate stages would all explode. I enjoyed demonstrating the error of this argument during my Royal Institution Christmas Lectures for Children..."

It is Dawkins's sense of his complete superiority over the other side, combined with the fact that his argument is in reality embarrassingly weak, that reinforces the impression of the Darwinian orthodoxy as a Wizard of Oz, creating a show in which he puffs himself up to gigantic and terrifying proportions, intimidating all who would dare approach, when the reality is a scared little man behind a curtain pulling levers.

Over and over, I have seen the Darwinian using two types of arguments:

(a) The argument from authority: We Darwinians are simply right and our critics are simply idiots.

(b) Some vague abstract explanation that does not at all answer the challenge to Darwinism, but the Darwinists act as though it does answer all challenges.

However, I just came upon an article at the TalkOrigins website that presents a 15-step scenario by which the author says that the Bombardier beetle could have evolved. I haven't had time to take it in yet, but I will do later later and discuss it. This should be interesting. I hope it's better than a supposed refutation of Michael Behe's bacterium flagellum argument I read recently, in which the author said in essence, "Well, part X of the bacterium flagellum could earlier have had some other useful function Y, and therefore it was selected, and this explains how intermediate Darwinian mutations led step by step to the functioning 30-part bacterium flagellum! I have just refuted that idiot Behe who might as well be a dog catcher." The author (like Dawkins above) evidently thought his argument was not only persuasive but definitive.


Posted by Lawrence Auster at February 08, 2008 09:32 PM |

Bronze Age Pervert
02-09-2008, 09:07 PM
Larry Auster notes something that I too have so often noticed: dogmatic evo-pushers are some of the most hubris-filled tools ever to grace the surface of the earth. (Pride goeth before the fall) They know nothing about the Christian virtue of humility - their worldview is as far away from healthy scepticism and self-doubt as possible.

Evo-preachers like Dawkins are so greatly institutionally protected by the modern secularist society from any serious challenges (evolution is the de facto religion/narrative that secularism uses to justify itself), that they are like some obnoxious pampered brats of inherited wealth who simply cannot imagine what being poor is like - and what's more, cannot even theoretically conceive the possibility that they themselves might become poor some day. Likewise Darwinist materialists scoff at the very notion that their paradigm might be falsified (as it actually has already been, in many different ways).

In a fair fight, dogmatic Darwinists would be easily crushed (that why they no longer like to have open debates with their critics), but just like rich kids are protected by their powerful parents, committed secularist ideologues in media, academia and governments make sure that those ID/creationist gutter punks won't be able to lay their hands on their precious darlings.


Below, Auster shows Dawkins putting forward a mediocre argument, then shows why it's wrong and then notes the ridiculously conceited attitude of evo-propagandists.


http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/009892.html

Thank you. This discussion is very useful. But just in rejecting Darwinism (which I do) does not mean that one adopts ID. There are other alternatives, and I don't understand why Christians have a dog in this fight. In fact, I should think that Christians should welcome the model of a Darwinian world, because one can speak of salvation from such a world...not from one where all things are created good.

I always thought that Darwinism is most antithetical to Islam and Judaism.

Sean
02-10-2008, 06:29 AM
Evo-preachers like Dawkins are so greatly institutionally protected by the modern secularist society from any serious challenges (evolution is the de facto religion/narrative that secularism uses to justify itself), that they are like some obnoxious pampered brats of inherited wealth who simply cannot imagine what being poor is like - and what's more, cannot even theoretically conceive the possibility that they themselves might become poor some day.

You know, biologists, as well as Dawkins, readily admit that there are many unanswered questions with regard to the evolution of species (e.g., how did humans evolve to walk upright?). Simply to say "evolution can't do this, therefore goddidit" is not a valid argument. You people are going to have to come up with a theory, one that is specific and can't be amended to any change in data if you want to replace evolution.

Likewise Darwinist materialists scoff at the very notion that their paradigm might be falsified (as it actually has already been, in many different ways).

How so?

In a fair fight, dogmatic Darwinists would be easily crushed (that why they no longer like to have open debates with their critics), but just like rich kids are protected by their powerful parents, committed secularist ideologues in media, academia and governments make sure that those ID/creationist gutter punks won't be able to lay their hands on their precious darlings.

The reason that biologists don't like to debate creationists is not because they're afraid their theories can't hold up, but rather because they usually will have to spend time explaining biology 101 to these people. ID shouldn't be taught in schools because the movement is religiously motivated.

Petr, if you really think that evolutionists are unwilling to debate the opposition, why don't you try posting the tripe you usually post here on this board:

http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=66

You wouldn't last five minutes.

Petr
02-10-2008, 10:57 AM
The reason that biologists don't like to debate creationists is not because they're afraid their theories can't hold up, but rather because they usually will have to spend time explaining biology 101 to these people.
Not so. The real reason, which they often admit, is that creationists/IDers may well will win over the audience, or large part of it, supposedly because laymen (or students) are not able to appreciate their finely crafted answers.

In other words, elitist Darwinists do not think that democracy works, or even representational democracy of university students. Deep inside, they believe that those smooth-tongued anti-Darwinists will be able to seduce the ignorant masses if only given a chance (in a form of public debate).

To the extent that the American academic Establishment is Darwinian, it is of necessity politically elitist. The self-certified, self-accredited professorate wants its academic work funded by taxpayers. The professors also want their worldview written into the textbooks that are paid for by taxpayers. They want no back-talk from voters. They see democracy as a matter of temporary convenience. Whenever democracy threatens to transfer the monopolistic power they possess over the allocation of money extracted by compulsion from taxpayers, they abandon all pretence of honoring democracy.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north335.html


Petr, if you really think that evolutionists are unwilling to debate the opposition, why don't you try posting the tripe you usually post here on this board:

http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=66

You wouldn't last five minutes.
Silly you. :p

Of course I'm not talking about layman creationists like me debating layman evolutionists, but rather professional, accredited evo-pushers like Dawkins conducting formal academic debates with professional, accredited ID people like Dembski, or some informed, accredited creationist. Dawkins has refused to debate Dembski, for example.

It wouldn't be worth my time to yack with ignorant low-ranking evo-atheists.


Petr

Sean
02-11-2008, 04:27 AM
Not so. The real reason, which they often admit, is that creationists/IDers may well will win over the audience, or large part of it, supposedly because laymen (or students) are not able to appreciate their finely crafted answers.

In other words, elitist Darwinists do not think that democracy works, or even representational democracy of university students. Deep inside, they believe that those smooth-tongued anti-Darwinists will be able to seduce the ignorant masses if only given a chance (in a form of public debate).

And that's why science is not democratic. It's unfortunate that people who are ignorant of the subject will be swayed by rhetoric.

Silly you. :p

Of course I'm not talking about layman creationists like me debating layman evolutionists, but rather professional, accredited evo-pushers like Dawkins conducting formal academic debates with professional, accredited ID people like Dembski, or some informed, accredited creationist. Dawkins has refused to debate Dembski, for example.

It wouldn't be worth my time to yack with ignorant low-ranking evo-atheists.

For the record, there are several posters on that board who are professional academics with Ph.Ds in biology, so many of them don't qualify as "low-ranking evo-atheists." Lets remember that the theories of Behe or Dembski can be discussed openly there. If you think that there's a cogent anti-evolution argument that gets overlooked, then what would the harm be in seeing if they can answer it (other than that you may potentially embarrass yourself)?

IlluSionS667
02-11-2008, 11:00 AM
The answer is because most of the religious arguments against evolution are based on lack of information from both the religious people and the biologists. Science doesn't claim to have all the answers, just a nice theory that seems to fit. Lack of evidence does not prove it doesn't happen.

Also, more important : lack of evidence for a specific evolutionary theory doesn't prove Creationism at all. It merely implies a different evolutionary theory. A good example of this is the fact that macro-evolution doesn't seem to take place under normal conditions. While classic Darwinian theory has no explanation for this, punctuated equilibrium does. That's one of the reasons I prefer punctuated equilibrium to both classic Darwinian theory and Creationist rubbish.