Cartoon row: Danish embassy ablaze

[Slavic Enforcer]

Saturday, February 4, 2006; Posted: 11:12 a.m. EST (16:12 GMT)

DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) -- Hundreds of Syrian demonstrators stormed the Danish Embassy in Damascus Saturday and set fire to the building, witnesses said.

The demonstrators were protesting offensive caricatures of Islam's Prophet Mohammed that were first published in a Danish newspaper several months ago.
Witnesses said the demonstrators set fire to the entire building, which also houses the embassies of Chile and Sweden.
Protesters have been staging sit-ins outside the Danish Embassy in downtown Damascus almost daily since the furor over the drawings broke out last week.
Saturday's protest started out peacefully but as anger escalated, protesters broke through police barriers and torched the building, the witnesses said.
The cartoons, first printed in Denmark and then published elsewhere in Europe, have touched a raw nerve in the Arab and Islamic world, in part because Islamic law is interpreted to forbid any depiction of the Prophet Mohammed, favorable or otherwise.
Aggravating the affront was one caricature of Mohammed wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse.
The Danish government has expressed regret for the furor, but refused to become involved, citing freedom of expression.
Rage against caricatures of Islam's revered prophet poured out across the Muslim world on Saturday, with aggrieved believers calling for the execution of those involved, storming European buildings, and setting European flags afire.
In its first official comments on the caricatures, the Vatican, while deploring violent protests, said certain forms of criticism represent an "unacceptable provocation."
"The right to freedom of thought and expression ... cannot entail the right to offend the religious sentiment of believers," the Vatican said in a statement.
The cartoons, first printed in Denmark, and then published elsewhere in Europe, have touched a raw nerve, in part because Islamic law is interpreted to forbid any depictions of the Prophet Mohammed. Aggravating the affront was one caricature of Mohammed wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse.
Muslims in Europe have reacted less passionately than their counterparts in the Mideast and Southeast Asia, but on Saturday, anger in Europe swelled, too, with demonstrators clashing with police in Copenhagen and gathering outside the Danish Embassy in London.
In Munich, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said she understood Muslims' hurt, but denounced violent reactions.
"I can understand that religious feelings of Muslims have been injured and violated," Merkel said at an international security conference, " but I also have to make clear that I feel it is unacceptable to see this as legitimizing the use of violence."
But incensed faithful in some parts of the Muslim world had no use for such words.
A leader of the Islamic militant Hamas group, which recently swept Palestinian parliamentary elections, told an Italian newspaper on Saturday that the cartoons were an "unforgivable insult" that should be punished by death.
"We should have killed all those who offend the Prophet and instead here we are, protesting peacefully," Mahmoud Zahar, a top leader of the militant Islamic group that won the January 25 Palestinian elections, told Italian daily Il Giornale.
"We should have killed them, we should have required just punishment for those who respect neither religion nor its holiest symbols," Zahar was quoted as saying.
Hundreds of Palestinians turned out for protests on Saturday. In Gaza City, demonstrators hurled stones at a European Commission building and stormed a German cultural center, smashing windows and doors. Protesters also burned German and Danish flags, and called for a boycott of Danish products.
"Insulting the prophet means insulting every Muslim," blared a loudspeaker car accompanying some 400 demonstrators who marched to the European Commission building.
In the West Bank town of Hebron, about 50 Palestinians marched to the headquarters of the international observer mission there, burned a Danish flag, and demanded a boycott of Danish goods. "We will redeem our prophet, Mohammed, with our blood,' they chanted.
Masked gunmen affiliated with the Fatah Party called on the Palestinian Authority and Muslim nations to recall their diplomatic missions from Denmark until it apologizes.
At least 500 Israeli Arabs gathered peacefully in Nazareth for the first protest against the caricatures on Israeli soil. A procession set off from the As-Salam mosque toward the Basilica of the Annunciation, where Christian tradition says Mary was informed of Jesus' impending birth. Sheik Raed Salah, a radical leader of the Islamic Movement, was to address the crowd later.
"Allah is the only God, and Mohammed is his prophet," loudspeakers blared as the march began.
Leaders of Muslim nations in Asia denounced the caricatures, The prime minister of Malaysia, Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, said the publication of the cartoons showed a "blatant disregard for Islamic sensitivities over the use of such images, which are particularly insulting and forbidden by Islam." But in a written statement, he urged Malaysians to stay calm.
"Let the perpetrators of the insult see the gravity of their own mistakes which only they themselves can and should correct," he said, without elaborating.
In Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono denounced the cartoons as insensitive.
But "as religious people, we should accept the apology extended by the Danish government," he added.
About 500 people rallied Saturday south of Baghdad, some carrying banners urging "honest people all over the world to condemn this act," and demanding an EU apology. The protest was organized by followers of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who has been among the most outspoken Iraqi clerics on the issue.
Angry demonstrators took to the streets in Denmark and Britain on Saturday, signaling a ratcheting up of tensions among European Muslims.
In Copenhagen, young Muslims clashed briefly with police after they were stopped from boarding a train to go to a demonstration north of the Danish capital. Some of the roughly 300 demonstrators threw rocks and bottles at police but no one was injured, officials said.
At the demonstration later Saturday outside Copenhagen, right-wing extremists plan to protest the recent burning of Danish flags -- a gathering that could inflame tensions with the Muslims.
Although many of Denmark's 200,000 Muslims were deeply offended by the cartoons, mass demonstrations have not broken out.
In London, several hundred demonstrators gathered under heavy police security outside Denmark's embassy, shouting slogans to protest the publication of the drawings.

CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons out of respect for Islam.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press.

(CNN.com)

[Jimbo Gomez]

In its first official comments on the caricatures, the Vatican, while deploring violent protests, said certain forms of criticism represent an "unacceptable provocation."
"The right to freedom of thought and expression ... cannot entail the right to offend the religious sentiment of believers," the Vatican said in a statement.

The Holy See appears to quasi comatose it seems. To say this is to put moslem religion on the same level as Christianity, which is heresy in its purest form.

[Heimdall]

The Holy See appears to quasi comatose it seems. To say this is to put moslem religion on the same level as Christianity, which is heresy in its purest form.

That line jumped out at me too. The Vatican appears to be more interested in what Muslims think of it than what Christians think of it. The Vatican seems to be saying that Islam is as legitimate, if not more so, than Christianity, which might explain why more Europeans who are wanting religion in their life are converting to Islam than Catholicism.

"The right to freedom of thought and expression ... cannot entail the right to offend the religious sentiment of believers," the Vatican said in a statement.

Actually, it's odd that the Vatican says this when it comes to Islam considering that Christianity, especially the Catholic Church, is lampooned all the time.

[Björn]

That line jumped out at me too. The Vatican appears to be more interested in what Muslims think of it than what Christians think of it. The Vatican seems to be saying that Islam is as legitimate, if not more so, than Christianity which might explain why Europeans who are wanting religion in their life are converting to Islam than Catholicism.

That's a good point. Now that you mention it though it makes wiggers and converts to foreign religions more understandable. They want to express themselves but subconsciously realize their western identity is supressed.

[Excorcism]

CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons out of respect for Islam.

NOT ME! :D

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/6635/m13ia.jpg

[Lenny]

CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons out of respect for Islam.Cowards :argue:

The Holy See [ :rolleyes: :mad: ] appears to quasi comatose it seems. To say this is to put moslem religion on the same level as Christianity, which is heresy in its purest form.Havent you learned anything from your own years of Catholicism? Catholicism is a political power, and the fatcats in the Vatican would throw their own mother off a bridge rolled up in a carpet if it would somehow advance their own power or put money in their pocket! In this case the odious Catholic slugs see the muslims are angry and are gaining strength by the day, so the instantly sell out everything they "claimed" to stand for so they can gain power and improve their image to muslims :mad:

[Heimdall]

That's a good point. Now that you mention it though it makes wiggers and converts to foreign religions more understandable. They want to express themselves but subconsciously realize their western identity is supressed.

Wiggers, I think, are the result of a femenized male culture. Since young white males don't have westerns or war movies that glorify sacrifice, courage and honor they turn to the black culture whose ideal of masculinity is screwing countless hos, vulgarity and unrestrained Narcissism, not to mention violent behavior and love of material wealth.

[Starr]

The demonstrators were protesting offensive caricatures of Islam's Prophet Mohammed that were first published in a Danish newspaper several months ago.

Several months ago? What does that mean exactly and why is this becoming such an issue only now?:confused:
In its first official comments on the caricatures, the Vatican, while deploring violent protests, said certain forms of criticism represent an "unacceptable provocation."
"The right to freedom of thought and expression ... cannot entail the right to offend the religious sentiment of believers," the Vatican said in a statement

These are some of the most pathetic and weak words I have heard come out of the vatican in a while, and the list is growing. It would have been better if they were to have said nothing.

Muslims are insane, for sure. but this is obviously about much more than cartoons. It doesn't take much imagination to see who is sitting back and loving all of this. All that is needed now is for some crazy muslim or muslims to act on these words:

A leader of the Islamic militant Hamas group, which recently swept Palestinian parliamentary elections, told an Italian newspaper on Saturday that the cartoons were an "unforgivable insult" that should be punished by death.

and I obviously mean a terrorist attack since no one would really give a shit if some Muslims simply killed a few white people here and there.

[Lenny]

Muslims are insane, for sure. but this is obviously about much more than cartoons.I agree with you there but If you truly oppose muslims then why do you praise one in your signature :eek: :confused:

[Heimdall]

Muslims are insane, for sure. but this is obviously about much more than cartoons.

Oh come now, calling them insane is a bigoted statement. :nono:

What you mean to say is that they are sensitive and have had their feelings hurt by the insensivitive straight white males. They're just reacting in such a way because they feel helpless, which is the fault of straight white males in someway or another but has of yet to be determined. :rolleyes:

[Slavic Enforcer]

These fanatics use everything as a pretext to terrorize other people.

[albion]

February 2, 2006

Cartoons and Hypocrisy
Danes Finally Apologize to Muslims (But for the Wrong Reasons)
By RACHARD ITANI

In many European countries, there are laws that will land in jail any person who has the chutzpah to deny not only the historicity of the Jewish holocaust, but also the method by which Jews were put to death by the Nazis. In some of these countries, this prohibition goes as far as prosecuting those who would claim or attempt to prove that less than 6 million jews were slaughtered by the Nazis. In none of these countries are there similar laws that threaten people with loss of freedom and wealth for denying that large percentages of gypsies, gays, mentally retarded, and other miscellaneous "debris of humanity" were also eliminated by the Jew-slaughtering Nazis.

Quickly now: what defines a hypocrite? Answer: a person who follows the letter of the law, but not its spirit. The laws against anti-semitism are just that: laws against anti-semitism enacted by hypocritical Europeans with blood on their hands from the genocides in their recent and distant past, and much guilt to atone for in their hearts and minds.

The spirit of the law, which would extend this protection to Muslims as well, if not indeed other religious groups, is nowhere to be found in the Western legal code. You can curse the Prophet of the Muslims at will and with total impunity. However, approach the holocaust at your own risks and perils if you do not include in your discussion the standard, ritualistic incantations about the six million Jewish victims of the European Nazis. There is a word for this in the English language: hypocrisy.

I used to have a lot of respect for the Dutch, the Danes, and the Norwegians, and still do. However, I cannot claim that this respect is not more nuanced today. The coloring started when the Dutch, who are invariably and automatically described as being amongst the most "tolerant" people in the West, if not the world, proved that their tolerance was little more than skin deep. Their reaction to the murder of Theo Van Gogh was anything but driven by tolerance. They behaved as a mob in reaction to the criminal, despicable action of an extremist and murderer, by painting the whole Dutch muslim community with the same broad brush that Vincent Van Gogh would have eschewed. They burnt Muslim schools and mosques. They directed opprobrium at Muslims in their midst, calling on them "to go home" though many had been born in the Netherlands. No subtlety in the Dutch reaction. Just collective anti-semitism which they directed not at the Jews, but at the Jews' cousins, the Muslims.

Then the Danes, who must have felt left out, decided to go the Dutch one better: a Danish paper published cartoons that are no less offensive to Muslims than anti-semitism is to Jews. The cartoons were described by Danish politicians and the press as not provocation, but a principled case of free speech, although many Danish and Scandinavian newspaper editors are on record stating that they published the cartoons as an act of defiance against "radical Islam." This is akin to these ignorant morons recommending that the U.S. ought to nuke Tehran because that would teach Iranian President Ahmadinejad a lesson.

What free speech are we talking about here? The law says thou shalt not utilize or publish anti-semitic language or imagery. Consequently, Danish (and other European) papers will refrain from doing so, lest they fall foul of the law and offend Jewish sensitivities. The law does not say: thou shalt not offend muslims or use imagery that may be deeply offensive to them. So Danish papers will not refrain from doing so, in fact they will go out of their way to offend Muslims both in Denmark and around the world, in the name of "free speech." And the Norwegians? Well, they just decided to follow the Danes down perdition lane, all in the name of holy hypocrisy, so a Norwegian paper also published the offending cartoons. The statement about "confronting radical Islam" was in fact made by the Norwegian editor of a newspaper that is described as a "Norwegian Christian Paper." And now that other European papers and Magazines have also followed suit, if there was any doubt that this affair is one of anti-Muslim bias, it was swept away by the statements of the Editor in Chief of Die Welt, the German magazine, who declared that the right to publish the cartoons was "at the very core of our culture" and that Europeans cannot "stop using our journalistic right of freedom of expression within legal boundaries." It's the "legal boundaries" qualifier that gives the game away: there are no legal boundaries in Europe protecting Muslims from the same ignominies that the law protects Jews from.

more: http://www.counterpunch.com/itani02022006.html

[Starr]

I agree with you there but If you truly oppose muslims then why do you praise one in your signature :eek: :confused:


If I am praising anything it is his words rather than him. And I do not oppose muslims who remain in their own part of the world. They and we should do the same and maybe shit like this wouldn't have the already existing "tensions" that allow it to become such an issue.

but a principled case of free speech, although many Danish and Scandinavian newspaper editors are on record stating that they published the cartoons as an act of defiance against "radical Islam." This is akin to these ignorant morons recommending that the U.S. ought to nuke Tehran because that would teach Iranian President Ahmadinejad a lesson

And that is the problem. I would think that for some, though, this is a hidden attack on multi culturalism expressed in what they thought would be a slightly more acceptable way.

[Excorcism]

In Munich, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said she understood Muslims' hurt, but denounced violent reactions.
"I can understand that religious feelings of Muslims have been injured and violated," Merkel said at an international security conference, " but I also have to make clear that I feel it is unacceptable to see this as legitimizing the use of violence."

I agree with the German Chancellor here but I wonder how long she'll last in power having said something like that.

[Excorcism]

A leader of the Islamic militant Hamas group, which recently swept Palestinian parliamentary elections, told an Italian newspaper on Saturday that the cartoons were an "unforgivable insult" that should be punished by death.
"We should have killed all those who offend the Prophet and instead here we are, protesting peacefully," Mahmoud Zahar, a top leader of the militant Islamic group that won the January 25 Palestinian elections, told Italian daily Il Giornale.
"We should have killed them, we should have required just punishment for those who respect neither religion nor its holiest symbols," Zahar was quoted as saying.

Something tells me these people don't realize what borders and laws within one's own nation really means. These guys are just asking for it.

[Lenny]

I agree with the German Chancellor here but I wonder how long she'll last in power having said something like that.She said it in the most non-offensive, meek way possible! How would she get in trouble for that :confused:

Something tells me these people don't realize what borders and laws within one's own nation really means. These guys are just asking for it.Watching these muslim clowns violent reactions to some cartoons is like watching a farce comedy, it is so ridiculous :rofl:

[Excorcism]

She said it in the most non-offensive, meek way possible! How would she get in trouble for that :confused:

Watching these muslim clowns violent reactions to some cartoons is like watching a farce comedy, it is so ridiculous :rofl:

To us, people who have grown under the wing of Westernization, it's a nice comment. However, to the radical muslims that are prone to violence, it probably looks like something that says "Fuck You"

[Felix the Cat]

Several months ago? What does that mean exactly and why is this becoming such an issue only now?:confused:
The cartoons were published last September, and there was a brief period of excitement at the time which then died down

Then over December (ie. during an important Muslim religious festival) a group of Danish Muslims toured the Middle East showing copies of the cartoons to journalists and politicians, however

1) They also claimed that Muslims in Denmark were being violently attacked and persecuted Bosnia-style

2) They added several cartoons to the collection which were seriously offensive (Muhammed as a pig writing the Koran, a praying Muslim being assfucked by a dog, Mohammed as a childraping monster)

In other words, this was a calculated attack on Denmark, which could as easily have been directed against any other European nation

But I'm not sure why the Muslims have chosen to attack the Danes. It may have something to do with the recent election of Hamas

[Heimdall]

But I'm not sure why the Muslims have chosen to attack the Danes. It may have something to do with the recent election of Hamas

If I remember correctly, Denmark was one of the first countries in Europe that elected a government headed by a party (the Liberals who formed a coalition with the Danish People's Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_People's_Party)) that made Muslim immigration (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,567610,00.html) and curtailing it a centerpiece of its platform. I remember Deutsche Welle (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,333052,00.html) reporters reporting it in ominous tones about how it might be a sign that Europeans are starting to turn to the right.

[Lenny]

Look at these photos from a protest outside the Danish embassy in London:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/CaliThief/3islam.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/CaliThief/1islam.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/CaliThief/5islam.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/CaliThief/4islam.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/CaliThief/2islam.jpg


http://thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3657

[A. Radek]

I just got back from the store with some fine Danish cheese, and several packages of fine Danish ham. I was thinking about maybe boycotting Danish goods as a protest against their caving in to the cretins, but then I thought that maybe enough people sending the Muslim embassies packages of Danish goods to fill their dumpsters up with might be a better way to go.

[Starr]

These people are not only nuts but stupid too. The very reason these cartoons got so much attention from the press(they say they know who is in control of western press, but do they?) is most likely the anticipation of this response.

Europe, your 9/11 is on its way, freedom go to hell. LOL.

Jump, how high?:222:

[A. Radek]

I think it has more to do with deflecting attention away from the fallout with the Hamas landslides and Iran fixing to get their nuclear plants and labs turned into rubble, which will likely mean wiping out their air force and air defense as well. they need a scam to get support from all over, and this seems tailor made for them. As somebody said, these cartoons were published over 4 months ago, which pretty much leaves 'spontaneous reaction' out of any spinnable excuses.

[Starr]

they need a scam to get support from all over, and this seems tailor made for them.

You could be right. But these nuts with their signs, and the words from Hamas and others certainly provides a perfect picture of Islam: the enemy, as well.

I have not even turned on the news much today, but I bet the people involved in stations like foxnews believe they have struck gold with these images.

[OVERWATCH]

Look at these photos from a protest outside the Danish embassy in London:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/CaliThief/1islam.jpg



What can I say? other than the fact I'd like to see a 500lb cannister of napalm dropped on these ingrates.

[raven]

I will be rooting on the Europeans if a possible breakout does happen. I can't believe these bitches are complaining about cartoons. They make fun of Jesus all the time in western society. But if you make fun of Islam then its all serious? This is bullshit. I still don't understand how the masses STILL don't get it.

[zenero]

They make fun of Jesus all the time in western societActually they dont. They believe in Jesus.

Im getting sick of muslims, muslims, muslims. Only one group makes profit of this all.

[Jimbo Gomez]

And how do they profit from this? The moment that scum starts rioting in Europe their first targets usually are jews.

[Starr]

Actually they dont. They believe in Jesus.

I don't think Raven was referring to Muslims. The point I think was that it is perfectly acceptable for people to make fun of Christians, whites,etc. But do it to the Muslims or any other protected group and everyone is up in arms and falling all over themselves and others to apologize and scream about how offensive these things are.

[zenero]

And how do they profit from this? The moment that scum starts rioting in Europe their first targets usually are jews.The European people will blindly support the American-Kike war in Iran, if it ever happens. The jews are part of a castesystem. They dont mind seeing their Ashkenazi's brothers & sisters being assaulted in Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Paris, London - whatever -. How more masses hate the muslims, how more the jews get away with it.

And dont forget, they are targetting Danish people. So that means --> Nordics: blue-eyed, blond haired, big boned persons.

Street Fighting in Copenhagen!? (http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3658)

[Excorcism]

With signs like those, it's a wonder why Denmark would post up pictures depicting Mohammad as a terrorist. :rolleyes:

[Jimbo Gomez]

The European people will blindly support the American-Kike war in Iran, if it ever happens. The jews are part of a castesystem. They dont mind seeing their Ashkenazi's brothers & sisters being assaulted in Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Paris, London - whatever -. How more masses hate the muslims, how more the jews get away with it.

And dont forget, they are targetting Danish people. So that means --> Nordics: blue-eyed, blond haired, big boned persons.

Street Fighting in Copenhagen!? (http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3658)


Are you drunk?

[zenero]

I don't think Raven was referring to Muslims.Wasnt aware of that. The point I think was that it is perfectly acceptable for people to make fun of Christians, whites,etc. But do it to the Muslims or any other protected group and everyone is up in arms and falling all over themselves and others to apologize and scream about how offensive these things are.The Islamics are so goddamn rebellious. That's my respect to them. Even niggers cant get away like that.

[zenero]

Are you drunk?Look at your fucked-up remark. I posted to your question competely, what do you do? You give me you're typical one-lining fuckin' insult.

[OVERWATCH]

Take it easy, folks. :D

[Jimbo Gomez]

Just a question. ;)

Have you any idea how tiresome the 'jews did everything bad and profit from every catastrophe' line is? The same people who critisize their clannish nature will come up with some odd theory about them sacrificing a few of their own for the collective good two minutes later.

People like you stopped being reasonable. Every catastrophe that fals on the Western World is a priori related to the jews on some level. The explanation give is laughable more often than not, and it reflects poorly on the many valid points of criticism that can be made about judaism. A reasonable person knows this and gives the situation some critical thought. I assume you are reasonable. That makes me wonder if such silly rants aren't being posted in an intoxicated state.

Are they?

[zenero]

Just a question. ;)Finally.

Have you any idea how tiresome the 'jews did everything bad and profit from every catastrophe' line is?No i dont. It makes my blood boil even more. The same people who critisize their clannish nature will come up with some odd theory about them sacrificing a few of their own for the collective good two minutes later.In the civil war, the Confederation used to send in troops - no matter what they would encountered, just to recognize the enemy's strenght.

People like you stopped being reasonable.You gave me a insult, now im giving you mine: Are you drunk? Every catastrophe that fals on the Western World is a priori related to the jews on some level.True. Western Civilization stopped when the jews had to be rescued in WW2. Why did we had to save them? 9/11 - Who's fault was that? Libertian neo-cons unconditional aid to Israel. Ay-habs get mad, we get 2 freakin' Boeings in the WTC buildings. Another catastrophe prior to the jews. Hezbollah bombs American quarters in Beirut. 200 marines dead, why? Because the kikes had the urge to invade Libanon. Another topic. Iraq. We invade Iraq, for what purpose? Too make the vermin in Jeruzalem and Tel-aviv feel comfartable. The price? 2.300 US soldiers dead. On top of that, more than 10.000 Iraqi civilians who were better off with Saddam Hussein.
The explanation give is laughable more often than not, and it reflects poorly on the many valid points of criticism that can be made about judaism. A reasonable person knows this and gives the situation some critical thought. I assume you are reasonable. That makes me wonder if such silly rants aren't being posted in an intoxicated state.

Are they?That's a trick question. Im not buying it.

Anyway, you can leave your response, im out of here.

[Jimbo Gomez]

One assertion after another in that post, with not a hint of evidence.

There are many reasons why your country went to war in Iraq, one among them, but by no means the only one, is israel. Typical of a simple mind to reduce something as complex as the Iraq war to the simplest dogma: 'the jews did it'.

As to my simple quesion: I can assure you I have no hidden motives.

[Starr]

The same people who critisize their clannish nature will come up with some odd theory about them sacrificing a few of their own for the collective good two minutes later.

You do have a point in this. It is funny when people(as I have seen) talk about that 1 dead jew in the world trade center,(all jews were warned in advance.lol) for example, and then go on to talk about a "terrorist" attack that specifically targeted Jews actually being the work of Mossad.:confused:

It seems to me they do not have any quarms about taking out a few of their own for the collective good.

I am not saying this applies to Zenero neccessarily. I am just agreeing that I have seen it with others.