Philosophical Influences

[Fade the Butcher]

What philosophers have influenced you the most? I will go first.

Aristotle, Plato, Aquinas, Hegel, Heidegger, Schmitt, MacIntyre

[Thomas777]

I would have to say Oswald Spengler and Martin Heidegger. "Decline of the West" and "The Question Concerning Technology" are two texts that really ushered in my conversion from mainstream conservatism to a third positionist/nationalist perspective.

[Eddy]

Honestly?

Robert Anton Wilson. :cool:

[A. Radek]

Mark Twain, especially his 'Letters From The Earth'. All the usual 'standards' pretentious wannabees always cite are almost all forgettable and irrelevant windbags.

[Fade the Butcher]

C'mon, Oberon. You should at least have the courtesy to tip the hat to your old friend, Karl.

[A. Radek]

Twain is American. I've seen how the history of Europe has played under the supposed benefits of their impressive array of 'deep thinkers'. In any case, I posted the philosopher that had the most influence on me. I read Letters From The Earth around the age of 12, after my second tour through the King James version of the Bible, which of course still makes no sense whatsoever to anybody; the only ones who claim otherwise are liars.

Part of the attraction was it was almost impossible to get a copy of it at the time, it was banned here in the Bible Belt, or stores refused to carry it, most likely, and I had to get my mother to check it out of the library; they wouldn't let youths have access to it. I do like Henry George, too. He is pretty dated in many ways, though. Twain isn't.

Not to say plenty of the others don't have some nifty quotables, though. I have one as a sig.

[Fade the Butcher]

I've seen how the history of Europe has played under the supposed benefits of their impressive array of 'deep thinkers'.

Who says you don't have anything in common with il ragno? The American philosopher, Bart Simpson. :p

http://images.contactmusic.com/images/artist/bartsimpsonap.jpg

[Leif]

Much of the ideas put forward in scientific-socialism seemed to fit with my own reasoning and thoughts, so it wasn't so much a matter of Marx, Ricardo, or empiricists influencing myself as much it was a natural agreement. However, the man that influenced me the most is probably Frederick Engels. He tended to highlight philosophical concepts which systemized Marx's materials. I suppose I could extend this back to Hegel, as it was his ideas, once flipped from idealism, that truly influenced my thought, rather than agreeing with it.

Mark Twain, especially his 'Letters From The Earth'.

Twain is great.

[A. Radek]

Speaking of Engels, I just got out my old copy of Origins Of The Family, Private Property, And The State the other day for a reread. Engels is indeed a much better writer than Marx, after all he had more direct experience than Marx on how capitalism and industrialisation worked. The analysis of the nature of American colonialism and the capitalists essential need for artificially induced poverty and uncontrolled and excessive immigration is my favorite chapter of Marx's, though, even if the writing is not the best; Chapter 33 of vol. 1, I think it is.

[Leif]

Engels is indeed a much better writer than Marx, after all he had more direct experience than Marx on how capitalism and industrialisation worked.

True. Engels was better at explaining Marx's ideas than himself.

The analysis of the nature of American colonialism and the capitalists essential need for artificially induced poverty and uncontrolled and excessive immigration is my favorite chapter of Marx's, though, even if the writing is not the best; Chapter 33 of vol. 1, I think it is.

Correct. It's a good explanation of why American capitalism is of such a different character than European capitalism, and why socialist movements never achieved more grass-roots support.

[1-800]

Not necessarily philosophers but...

Garrett Hardin
E.O. Wilson
David Sloan Wilson
Belloc/Chesterton/the other Catholic distributivists

[Eddy]

It's a good explanation of why American capitalism is of such a different character than European capitalism, and why socialist movements never achieved more grass-roots support.

Could you explain this different character please? I was just reading something on RAW's site mentioning some differences as well.

[Hakluyt]

Political philosophy: Hobbes, Burke, De Tocqueville, Charles Taylor and George Grant (in the Canadian context)

Life in general: Newton, Kierkegaard, and maybe someone modern like Guy Debord

[A. Radek]

You can read this while you wait for Ymir's answer.

http://www.econlib.org/library/YPDBooks/Marx/mrxCpA33.html

It'll help.

[A. Radek]

Who says you don't have anything in common with il ragno? The American philosopher, Bart Simpson. :p

http://images.contactmusic.com/images/artist/bartsimpsonap.jpg

Comparing Twain to Bart Simpson is sacrilege. Even Edith would say so, if it didn't mean agreeing with me ...:D

[Dan Dare]

Like most of my compatriots I’m not much given to ‘-isms’, ‘-osophies’ and other such Continental affectations, but I do find Roger Scruton’s work quite admirable. Spengler too, but only in small doses.

[Hakluyt]

Like most of my compatriots I’m not much given to ‘-isms’, ‘-osophies’ and other such Continental affectations, but I do find Roger Scruton’s work quite admirable. Spengler too, but only in small doses.
You must prefer Toynbee?

[Dan Dare]

Arnold or Polly?

[Hakluyt]

That would be A... only read him abridged myself, but I found his analysis much more thorough than Spengler's, if lacking in apocalyptic vision

[Dan Dare]

I must confess to having read more Polly than Arnold, she is so delightfully whacko.

But I will take the tip and give him a gander.

[tempus fugit]

Aristotle is my biggest philosophical influence.

[Vindex]

If any I would say Lane, Jack London, and Thoth/Hermes T. I would say reality has been my biggest Philosophical influence over all.

[Roland]

Speaking of Engels, I just got out my old copy of Origins Of The Family, Private Property, And The State the other day for a reread. Engels is indeed a much better writer than Marx, after all he had more direct experience than Marx on how capitalism and industrialisation worked. The analysis of the nature of American colonialism and the capitalists essential need for artificially induced poverty and uncontrolled and excessive immigration is my favorite chapter of Marx's, though, even if the writing is not the best; Chapter 33 of vol. 1, I think it is.

Engels, I believe, spoke nearly 15 languages and was therefore able to translate his own works with ease. I believe he wrote in English quite often (living in Britain), though I don't know the primary language of any of his texts.

I agree that Engels is much easier to understand. Some Communists regard him as even greater than Marx. I suspect this is due to his translation of a great deal of Marx's work and his subsequent "corrections" of them.

Interestingly, Marx's writing has received more attention from the lofts of academia than Engels. His metaphorical style (Capitalism as Vampirism etc.) has received much attention.

Edit: To stay on topic

I have been influenced by the entire hagiography of western philosophers (at least those I have come into contact with)

[Boleslaw]

Plato, Aristotle, Aquinas, Machiavelli, Rousseau, Herder, Burke, de Maistre, kierkegaard, Pope Leo XIII, Vladimir Soloviev, Jacques Maritain, Emmanuel Mounier, Nikolai Berdyaev, and many others.

[A. Radek]

Engels, I believe, spoke nearly 15 languages and was therefore able to translate his own works with ease. I believe he wrote in English quite often (living in Britain), though I don't know the primary language of any of his texts.

I agree that Engels is much easier to understand. Some Communists regard him as even greater than Marx. I suspect this is due to his translation of a great deal of Marx's work and his subsequent "corrections" of them.

Interestingly, Marx's writing has received more attention from the lofts of academia than Engels. His metaphorical style (Capitalism as Vampirism etc.) has received much attention.

Edit: To stay on topic

I have been influenced by the entire hagiography of western philosophers (at least those I have come into contact with)


I'm not a believer in Determinism, which means I'm not a Marxist, or not a good one anyways, but I do find his criticisms of capitalism to be excellent and in many cases impossible to refute, as do many others who aren't Marxists; Malcolm Forbes and Henry Kissinger thought so, to name two who are definitely not Marxists. Many just don't accept his version of how history is going to play out.

[Generator]

Russell, Mill, Berkeley, Hume, Feuerbach (though I am not a communist) and Camus leap out...there are of course, many more fingers in this pie.

[Roland]

I'm not a believer in Determinism, which means I'm not a Marxist, or not a good one anyways, but I do find his criticisms of capitalism to be excellent and in many cases impossible to refute, as do many others who aren't Marxists; Malcolm Forbes and Henry Kissinger thought so, to name two who are definitely not Marxists.

Could you elaborate on the Forbes/Kissinger statement? I am interested in this.

[Anarch]

Evola/Plato - The idea of an absolute 'right'.
Aristotle - Virtue ethics. 'Happiness'.
Nietzsche - Heaps of stuff.
Schmitt - Concept of the political, sovereignty. Lots of thinking resulted from this.
Yockey - Concept of tradition.
Mises - Resolved the Kantian problem of the 'ding an sich' by the category of action. Economics.
MacIntyre - Practices, goods.
Marx - Structure and superstructure. I adapted this from economics to genetics.
Richard Dawkins - Selfish gene theory
Fade - I don't remember. Quite a few things I imagine :p
Deleuze - His interpretation of Nietzsche's will to power, metaphysics. Foucault - Power/Knowledge
Rand - A few paragraphs in Atlas Shrugged led me to do a lot of thinking, turning to decisionism and eventually rejected Rand altogether.

[A. Radek]

Could you elaborate on the Forbes/Kissinger statement? I am interested in this.

It was 'pre-internet' days, as in the 1970's and 80's, but Forbes had said it on Buckley's Firing Line show, and Kissinger has said it in several interviews over the years. They said Marxists were very good at criticizing and finding flaws in capitalism, and they couldn't argue with them, but, they were lousy at providing decent alternative systems and managing them, so they still preferred the flaws of the current mixed economy, since the Marxists underestimate the effects technology is having on the economic system. They agreed many of the criticisms were valid, they didn't buy the solutions, in essence.

Forbes had some Marxists as economic advisors, I read somewhere. I haven't bothered to see if that is on the net anywhere; it could be an apocryphal story,, but my memory is usually pretty good, if not perfect.

[Berianidze]

My philosophical influences have come from a number of sources, and their influences vary depending on what field or varying aspect of philosophy they have in fact had a notable impact on (myself). With that in mind, I'd have to say my heaviest influence has come from the likes of Marx, Engles, Lenin, Hobbes, Hegel, Plato to name a few.

[Crowley]

This man has been quite influential on my philosophical outlook. What a life. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/bardamu/bukowski_wideweb__430x300.jpg

[Roland]

It was 'pre-internet' days, as in the 1970's and 80's, but Forbes had said it on Buckley's Firing Line show, and Kissinger has said it in several interviews over the years. They said Marxists were very good at criticizing and finding flaws in capitalism, and they couldn't argue with them, but, they were lousy at providing decent alternative systems and managing them, so they still preferred the flaws of the current mixed economy, since the Marxists underestimate the effects technology is having on the economic system. They agreed many of the criticisms were valid, they didn't buy the solutions, in essence.

Forbes had some Marxists as economic advisors, I read somewhere. I haven't bothered to see if that is on the net anywhere; it could be an apocryphal story,, but my memory is usually pretty good, if not perfect.

I'm sure Buckley wasn't pleased with those statements. The only actual Marxist I heard he had on the show was Huey Newton who handled himself more than well, embarrassing Buckley to some extent.

I can't imagine an actual Marxist working as an advisor for Forbes, though I have seen a few of those "Marxism for Capitalists" books.

[A. Radek]

I'm sure Buckley wasn't pleased with those statements. The only actual Marxist I heard he had on the show was Huey Newton who handled himself more than well, embarrassing Buckley to some extent.

Buckley had a wide spectrum of people on his show. Even Gus Hall was on more than once, and Michael Harrington at least twice. Not sure about Norman Thomas. The last two were not Marxists, but in those days you would never see those three ever allowed on any commercial TV station. Buckley was fairly even in the ideological bent of his guests, which was why I watched it every chance I could; it was very nearly the only show like it down here. For the most part you had to rely on The Nation ,New Republic, and National Review and a few other magazines the local college library carried to get any kind of a political spectrum of opinion.

I can't imagine an actual Marxist working as an advisor for Forbes, though I have seen a few of those "Marxism for Capitalists" books.

Marxists, at least the serious economic researchers, are very good at all sorts of mathematical analysis and historical research. they don't sit around cafes wearing black berets, reading bad poetry, and fomenting anarchic revolutions. Many of the best historians around today are Marxist and/or socialists. They practically invented the field of Euthegenics and economic history in the late 19th and early 20th century. Conservatives, like Robert Fogel, are just now making contributions to the field.

[il ragno]

The last two were not Marxists, but in those days you would never see those three ever allowed on any commercial TV station.

That's actually not true (though it may have been so in your neck of the woods).

I remember those years being prime time for shit-stirrers like Joe Pyne and Alan Burke, who loved parading lefties on the air. (True, it was to better exploit them as freaks, but as you ment'd with Buckley, often the freak shoe would end up on the other foot). But there were also more thoughtful non-public-tv staples like David Susskind as well, who often had on such guests - in fact I remember seeing Harrington on Susskind, who intvwd him for close to 90 mins!

[A. Radek]

We got Joe Pyne for a little while, but not Susskind. The New York area and a few other major urban areas got all kinds of great shows. We just got the three big networks through affiliates, and a couple of UHF drek channels. This is an area where posting JFK posters during the 1960 elections started a riot on the Baylor and Texas Christian University campuses, after all; not a place the local stations would run shows with 'alternative viewpoints' that the right wing oilygarchs and super rich crackpots like H.L.Hunt didn't think were suitable for the locals to hear.

They couldn't really tamper with PBS's programming at the time, or even Buckley wouldn't have been allowed; he was considered a 'Catholic' sympathizer and Papist, and part of the Yankee Agitator' crowd. He once got a convicted murderer off Death Row who had been railroaded, and he had 'black radicals' on his show.

Also, Buckley had people on from the John Birch Society, and I think Lincoln Rockwell was also a guest a few times, now that I remember it. Buckley was pretty 'avante garde' for us hicks down here in the 60's and early 70's.

[Roland]

I really never thought of Buckley as avant garde, but as you describe your situation, I now see him in a new light. I also remember N. Chomsky gracing the show at one time.