Personal purity and bad literature and art

[Sleswick]

Perhaps nothing contributes more to the defilement of the mind than the reading of impure books. There are thousands of books issued every year by otherwise reputable publishing houses, the characters of which are interesting to the reader, only because they appeal to his sensual nature, and all unconsciously, to many, their minds are defiled, their imagination polluted, their virtue overthrown, and their bodies debauched. There are books that lie exposed in the houses of otherwise respectable people, the influence of which upon the life and upon the thought is to sap the vital forces of the body, for the results they effect are the same in kind as masturbation and self-pollution, and from which their results differ only in degree. For even masturbation and self-defilement may be practiced in the mind while the mechanical processes are not perpetrated upon the body. The physical, intellectual and moral effects, however, are of the same kind, even lacking but slightly in degree. The appeal to the amative and sexual nature is so universal in novels that it might safely be laid down as a rule that no young man or young woman should be permitted to read a novel before he arrives at the age of twenty-five. There are so many good books in the world, and so much which needs to be learned, that no one can afford to squander his time and opportunities in reading a novel until he has laid a foundation broad and deep, has cultivated a taste for that which in the development of character and the acquisition of knowledge is indispensable. If books of this best class are not read first, during the formative years, and a taste acquired, they will never be read after novel-reading has once been begun, and the perverted taste has been cultivated and developed.

Looking back over an experience of nearly seventy years, and a large acquaintance with men in all departments of life, I think that I can honestly say that I have never known an individual, either man or woman, who has been given to the reading of novels, who has not been perceptibly weakened either in his intellectual and moral powers, or in both. While I know some men who have attained some prominence who are given in some degree to novel-reading, yet I do not know one such novel-reader who is not far beneath his opportunity and privilege, and below the eminence which it would have been possible for him to have attained if he had led his mind upon fact instead of fancy, if he had made the real and the actual the subjects of his thoughts and the basis for his judgments and conclusions.

Not only ought the mind to be kept pure, but the imagination must be carefully guarded as well. Turn away from obscene pictures and cinematography as you would from the most loathsome contagion. The influence of an obscene picture is contaminating, and its effects deceptive and destructive. The influence of vicious pictures often leads to illicit sexual indulgence, plunges the unhappy victim into a life of vice, and in hundreds and thousands of cases terminates in sexually transmitted diseases which are far-reaching in their results upon the inoffensive and innocent as well as in their terrible physical and moral effects upon the guilty offender.

Banish from your room and your possession all photographs and pictures and films whether known as works of art or shielded under some similarly deceptive and euphonious title, but which nevertheless depict or contain nudity, and which consequently beget impure thoughts, pollute the imagination and debase that which is noblest and best in the beholder, it matters not whether the pictures are suspended from the walls of an art gallery or grace (disgrace) the parlors of the wealthy.

There are people who would give thousands of dollars if they had not seen some obcene picture which has so photographed itself upon the mind that it refuses to be obliterated, or has become animated and quickened into an almost ever-present thought or dominant passion. So there are those in whose memory the recollection of a vile story lives, clinging to the very fibre of their being, refusing to be banished from the thought or obliterated from the memory. Avoid and flee from impurity, whether it be of that which is loathesome to the eye, abhorrent to the thought, or degrading to the imagination. Close your ears to the corrupting influences of vile stories which are so effectively plumed with wit and pointed with fancy that they pierce and poison the very soul of thought and character.

[scop]

For what end, is personal purity an end? What does it achieve?

Is it not neccessary to understand the darker forces at work if one is to understand all the elements of the universe, are not novels snippets of real lavished with textual devices?

Novels may have had some influence on women in the Victorian age, when women knew little of the world and this perhaps influenced many progressive ideas yet to assert that obscenity is the problem with novels is missing the point, the problem with novels is that they are progressive, both in narrative and politics.

[Sleswick]

For what end, is personal purity an end? What does it achieve?
Nothing can be done which would injure or impair the personal purity of a man without also injuring his intellectual and physical nature. When a man gives himself up to self-polluition, or yields to the allurements of vice, he not only saps the foundation of physical power, but his sad mistake is found in his perverted moral and intellectual sense.

Novels may have had some influence on women in the Victorian age, when women knew little of the world and this perhaps influenced many progressive ideas yet to assert that obscenity is the problem with novels is missing the point, the problem with novels is that they are progressive, both in narrative and politics.
What do you mean by 'progressive'?

[scop]

Nothing can be done which would injure or impair the personal purity of a man without also injuring his intellectual and physical nature. When a man gives himself up to self-polluition, or yields to the allurements of vice, he not only saps the foundation of physical power, but his sad mistake is found in his perverted moral and intellectual sense.

Is not immoral sexual behaviour at times an expression of dominant physical attributes, rape is the obvious case here.

Where are your moral imperitives coming from, religion/philosophy etc?


What do you mean by 'progressive'?

The novel is known for its bias towards progressive liberal politics.

[Sleswick]

Is not immoral sexual behaviour at times an expression of dominant physical attributes, rape is the obvious case here.Yes, it is when our physical nature is permitted to dominate over the higher intellectual and moral nature that rape occurs. Mankind were made to live in their higher moral and intellectual nature. It was never intended that the higher should be ruled by the lower.

The novel is known for its bias towards progressive liberal politics.It is also known for its moral depravity.

[scop]

Yes, it is when our physical nature is permitted to dominate over the higher intellectual and moral nature that rape occurs.

True, the civilizing process is responsible for this and this worldview was partly formed through the imagery of the novel, for example the 'Man of Feeling' novels.


Mankind were made to live in their higher moral and intellectual nature. It was never intended that the higher should be ruled by the lower.

You will need proof if you wish to make such bold assertions, they may ring true for you but that hardly makes them so.


It is also known for its moral depravity.

Fair enough.

Other questions however:

What is the solution to the already global mass proliferation of the novel? Are all novels to be discarded with if we wish to attain freedom from their perversities or shall only a select few avoid its temptations in the aim for higher purity?

What of a magnificant achievement such as Ulysses, at times filthy yet clearly pushing the boundaries of literary genius beyond anything achieved in the poetic language thus far?

[il ragno]

First of all, this is Ix. Which explains a lot.

Secondly, although I can't place it, my spider-sense is tingling like mad and telling me that Ix's first post on this thread was lifted verbatim from some book or pamphlet written over 100 years ago.

The late 19th/early 20th century saw many such 'purity guides', generally directed at teenage boys (or more properly, their parents) - typically they ranged over a wide variety of subjects, which is why this strikes me as an excerpted chapter.

Here's another example - almost identical:

http://www.nimbus.org/YoungMan1905.html

[scop]

Here's another example - almost identical:

http://www.nimbus.org/YoungMan1905.html

Well spotted,

SYLVANUS STALL, D.D.

Author of "What a Young Man Ought
to know," etc., "Five-Minute Object
Sermons to Children," "Talks to the
King's Children," etc.

:D


On a side note, what are your opinions on the matter?

[il ragno]

I think it's ridiculous to demonize novels per se in an age such as our own, when the sheer numbers of people reading them - or reading for pleasure period - is plummeting to almost third-world levels.

Beyond what is assigned (or necessary for career purposes) people these days don't read. They don't like to do it. They view it as unnecessary, a frivolity, obsolete. That may seem alarmist on a board like this where most members are regular and enthusiastic readers, but check the statistics. If you distrust library associations as Commie fronts, check the booksellers stats instead, and compare the numbers of books sold in the past five or ten years with the numbers from 20, 50, 80 years ago. The numbers are frightening - but they also explain a lot about Western decline.

Now...are most popular bestsellers trash? Probably. But even an inveterate reader of nothing but trash is going to be intellectually superior to the fellow whose free time is entirely consumed by tv/video games/Happy Hour at the local watering hole.

[Vindex]

Iam left wondering how easy univeristy is most of these days the last student I talked with was in his second year and he informed me he has only read six books in his whole life because his highschool English teachers made him. And he spends all his free time smoking weed.

[Roland]

Sleswick's post reminds me of Victorian era boy-scout pamphlets. Better I not defile my mind with novels nor defile my body with masturbation lest I pervert and destroy that which was given to me by God. I would not want to be useless on account of my impurity.

[A. Radek]

Escapism has been the driving force as entertainment for a long time. Hardly anybody read novels for their 'serious intellectual content', even in the 19th century, so naturally, with the development of TV, movies, games, etc. the sales of novels will drop. Most people are not in any positions of importance, so it doesn't really matter, even when it comes to politics; as the should-be-famous-but-isn't quote a Diebold employee used in his E-mail sig, 'If voting really changed anything, it would be illegal'. This bullshit about the 'collapse of civilization' is just that, bullshit. 'Civilization' never rises high enough for anybody to notice the slight bump when it hits bottom, and if anybody thinks it was higher in 'Da Good Ole Days', I have some rubber vomit and x-ray glasses for sale, cheap.

[Julian Curtis Lee]

For what end, is personal purity an end? What does it achieve?
On the highest end: Allows for the complete quieting of the mind, and a state called "samadhi."

For everyday purposese: Improves the quality of the life and reduces many problems. Also makes society sane, well-ordered, and beautiful. Real human culture then thrives.

[il ragno]

I have some rubber vomit and x-ray glasses for sale, cheap.

The kind that sees through women's clothes, but not their flesh? Put me down for a pair!

[A. Radek]

Yes. What 11 year old + male didn't want a pair of those after seeing that ad that ran in nearly every comic book published? Even the cynical ones who knew it was a cheesy little scam still hoped beyond hope it was true, eh? More thought was given to that one cheesy ad than was ever spent musing on Aquinas or Kant.

I have some circulation numbers on some of the newspapers in New York City circa 1830's or so, when somebody hit on the idea of a 'workingman's paper', a penny paper running want ads and lurid accounts of criminal trials, among other things, including a fake story of some astronomer supposedly observing life on Mars and running a column on it. Needless to say, it took less than a month before their circulations were many times higher than the highbrow nickel paper of the day, which had a circulation of a thousand or so, and thought that was grand.

Even in the 1920's, bestselling novels of supposedly great literary merit didn't run much past 30,000 or so, I have some of Scott Fitzgerald's printing runs somewhere, but the nickel and dime novels were in the hundreds of thousands, and many writers of grand elevation wrote for them to pay the bills, under aliases.

But even an inveterate reader of nothing but trash is going to be intellectually superior to the fellow whose free time is entirely consumed by tv/video games/Happy Hour at the local watering hole.

True. Carl Sagan was inspired by science fiction pulp to become a scientist, for instance. But, most of the better programmers of those things were inspired by reading pulp fantasy stuff, and most of the used book stores I hit regularly are doing a good business still.