National Socialists for Israel

[ogenoct]

http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/108865.html

Does pro-Israel extremist group exist?

Published: 06/03/2008

A new right-wing extremist group that claims to be pro-Israel has some German bloggers wondering if it exists.

The autonomous National Socialists for Israel launched its Internet site in May. The site applauds Israel's "2,000 years of struggling to survive" and claims that the notoriously anti-Semitic Reinhard Heydrich, an organizer of the "Final Solution," was a pro-Zionist nationalist.

In marking Israel's 60th anniversary, the German group calls for an end "to hatred aimed at the Jewish people" and urges support for the return of Jews to "their ancestral homeland." It also criticizes the anti-Semitic views of other neo-Nazis who continue to spread myths about so-called Jewish conspiracies, and suggests that if Jews were so powerful, Jewish leaders in Germany would not be so "cowardly."

The group, which urges that the uniqueness of the Holocaust be recognized, says it plans to bring Israeli flags to future neo-Nazi marches.

Some German bloggers and news media are asking whether the group is far right or far left -- or whether it exists. They note that the organization has never held a public meeting.

Others have said the group is not all that radical, since some mainstream neo-Nazis already have proposed to work together with Jews against "Islamo-fascism."

[ogenoct]

Here is the group's website:

http://nasofi.blogspot.com/

C.

[Basil Fawlty]

Looks like a false flag operation.

[ogenoct]

Looks like a false flag operation.

Why?

Constantin

[Starr]

The only way this would not seem strange would be if these were Jews. The assumption seems to be that they are not, but it doesn't sound like that is really known. Supporting "a return of jews to their ancestral homeland" seems like a reasonable position for us and them(and therefore not being anti Israel or wanting to see its dissolution) there are many who disagree, but I haven't for a while. It is difficult to see how any group such as what this one is claiming to be, would not recognize how extremely harmful "the uniqueness of the holocaust" has been.

[ogenoct]

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/fritzmaster18/logoII.gif

[Basil Fawlty]

Why?I would have thought it quite obvious.
They are trying to make the following connection: holocaust, Zionism, "Islamo-fascism" (that phrase alone should set alarm bells ringing.)
This comment suggest its an artifical "astro-turf" campaign:
Some German bloggers and news media are asking whether the group is far right or far left -- or whether it exists. They note that the organization has never held a public meeting.

[Kamandi]

It looks bogus, but it's hard to say: there are pro-Nazi groups within Israel itself as well.

[Roland]

I believe that early on in the evolution of the National Socialist party there were overtures made to Zionist elements regarding the coordination of operations to send Jews to Israel. I think information has been posted about this elsewhere on the forum.

Protestant elements in Germany and Switzerland are sometimes regarded as proto-Zionist. Oddly enough, Carl Jung's grandfather Samuel Preiswerk was a sort of proto-Zionist who directly inspired Herzl.

[Starr]

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html

Eichmann and the Zionists:

http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19470&highlight=COLLABORATION

[Tchort]

The Germans are prone to this kind of intellectual ham-fistedness.

I remember reading about the 'Anti-Deutsche' faction/clique within the German far-left. They would counterdemonstrate against the NPD, with signs like 'Fuck Dresden', 'Kill All Krauts', etc, throw model airplanes of RAF bombers at the NPD, and so on. Germans who vehemently believe, in the vain of Morgenthau and co., that the Germans are an evil race of men who should be wiped off the face of the earth.

The other far-leftists are fanatically pro-Israel, protesting US aggression, capitalism, etc yet supporting Israel in any and all ventures of war and economic exploitation.

The logo is crafted from the antifa symbol.

I would estimate it is former far-leftists of the pro-Israel variety applying Israeli Zionist racialism and nationalism like other neo-Nazis, only supporting the Jews. Nazification of anarchists.

[Warka]

Looks like they copped their emblem/flag from these guys:

http://afadenhaag.antifa.net/afa1%20copy.png

Go figure.

[ogenoct]

The logo is crafted from the antifa symbol.

Actually, it is not. All the autonomous nationalist groupings in Germany use a similar symbol. The Nasofis (Natinal Socialists for Israel) just modified it with an Israeli flag. Also, I do not believe it is "far-leftists" that created the group. It is obvous that the group leans towards the radical right when one reads their writings on the website.

Constantin

[ogenoct]

The other far-leftists are fanatically pro-Israel, protesting US aggression, capitalism, etc yet supporting Israel in any and all ventures of war and economic exploitation.

This is not really true. Besides the anti-German crowd, the far left in Germany is radically anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian.

Constantin

[///M power]

Experts divided on whether it may just be Left-wing provocation, but German neo-Nazi group declares support for Israel, Jews. 'A strong nation is worthy of life,' says group, 'respect those who have earned it'
Eldad Beck Published: 06.04.08, 12:35 / Israel Jewish Scene


BERLIN – Shall wolves dwell with lambs? Israel received an unexpected surprise for its 60th birthday in the form of a new group rooting for its prosperity. The twist? They are neo-Nazis.

On May 15, the Gregorian date in which the State of Israel was established, a group called National Socialists for Israel launched its online manifest.

"A strong nation is worthy of life; an ailing nation deserves death," it said, before detailing an ideology sporting the traditional Nazi concept of purity of the race on the one hand, and calling on National Socialists to let go of their hatred for Jews and support the Jewish people's right to their own homeland on the other.

"Deportations, pogroms and inquisitions were all understandable acts which were carried out by nations merely trying to defend themselves," said the website of past persecution of Jews.

"That is also the context in which the event called the 'Holocaust' must be viewed… This does not justify it. Instead of destroying the Jews we should have taken every measure possible to support the Zionist movement."

The group goes on to harshly criticize the Nazi regime as the cause of the "unnecessary rivalry" between Germany and its "brethren neighbors," and slams the current leaders of Germany's extreme right as "cowardly reactionaries."

'Stop spreading lies'

"The Jewish people still exist. Their national movement, supported by brave warriors has been able to form a state and expel foreign elements… For 60 year now, an army of young men and women has defended Israel against all foes," said the site.

Further supportive messages called for the Nazi party to "stop spreading anti Semitic lies about a worldwide Jewish plot" and demanded of anti Semites to "show us proof of Jewish domination over Germany and the world."

The website also tells of a gathering which took place on May 25 and included panels on solidarity with Israel, anti Semitism, and how to counter "the growing Islamic presence in Germany and around the world."

The group's public relations department has begun distributing stickers in Berlin depicting Israeli soldiers carrying the Israeli flag with the slogan - "A 2000-year struggle for survival. Respect those who have earned it."

Social experts following Germany's extreme right are skeptical of the new group, with some saying it is the product of a radical Left-wing-led provocation. Others, however, believe it may be a genuine new movement.

"There have always been fringe groups within Nazism that have supported a national home for the Jewish people, but the fact that they have a positive attitude towards Israel does not make them any less anti-Semitic," said Anita Kahana, who heads an foundation in Germany working against extreme right-groups.

"Mostly, they are trying to stir an ideological provocation," she added.

Ilan Mor of the Israeli Embassy in Berlin was appalled to learn of the story.

"We can handle our enemies just fine, but God save us from friends like these," he said, calling the group "absolutely preposterous."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3551269,00.html

[Kriger]

Heh heh.

Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

[Starr]

"Deportations, pogroms and inquisitions were all understandable acts which were carried out by nations merely trying to defend themselves," said the website of past persecution of Jews.

"That is also the context in which the event called the 'Holocaust' must be viewed

It also criticizes the anti-Semitic views of other neo-Nazis who continue to spread myths about so-called Jewish conspiracies, and suggests that if Jews were so powerful, Jewish leaders in Germany would not be so "cowardly."

:confused:
This seems very conflicting, unless they believe for some reason, that jews were a powerful and harmful influence in the past and are no longer? Or is one source(purposely or not) getting their information wrong?

[///M power]

just curios,did anyone post it on vnn?

[ogenoct]

just curios,did anyone post it on vnn?

I did:

http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=73642

C.

[Starr]

I did:

http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=73642

C.


How much negative rep did this get you?:p

[ogenoct]

How much negative rep did this get you?:p

Don't know. I disabled my rep on VNN since I was getting nothing BUT negative rep! Haha! Fuckin' degenerates...

Constantin

[ogenoct]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/990228.html

Last update - 21:47 04/06/2008

German neo-Nazis: We're pro-Israel, condemn anti-Semitism

By Ofer Aderet, Haaretz Correspondent

Nazis against anti-Semitism? As bizarre as that sounds, a group of Germans which calls itself "National Socialists For Israel" launched its Web site in support of Israel.

"Stop the hatred of the Jewish people," the Web site reads. "The Jews are a healthy, strong nation."

The organization - whose members have yet to reveal themselves to the public - claims that Israel's right to exist is anchored in the principles of social Darwinism, the same principles which the Nazis adopted prior to the Second World War.

"Israel earned the right to live among the nations [after emerging] from unending wars," the group writes on the site. "Israel also has a right to exist. This nation also has culture... The nation of Israel is appreciated... It is our duty, as neo-Nazis, to defend this supreme success. Not just for the German people and the European cultural sphere, but also, especially, for Israel."

As such, "Nazis for Israel" also leveled criticism at their colleagues in the neo-Nazi National Democratic Party (NPD), calling them "politicos, cowards, and reactionaries."

"Show us proof of a Jewish plot to dominate the world," they wrote in a rare manifesto which was posted on their Web site.

These unusual statements on the internet compliment the group's other public campaigns, including the dissemination of bumper stickers. One of the stickers features a picture of Reinhard Heydrich, the senior Nazi official who chaired the Wansee Conference where the Final Solution was hatched. Underneath the photo reads: "As a Nazi, I'm a Zionist."

Another sticker shows a photo of Israel Defense Forces soldiers during the Second Lebanon War under the heading: "2,000 years of struggling to survive - respect to those worthy of it."

In terms of the group's attitude towards the Holocaust, the organization says: "We must view what is referred to as 'the Holocaust' within the context of acts of self-defense undertaken by nations under threat." It added, however, "that there is no justification for it." Instead, the Nazis ought to have supported the Zionist cause, the group states.

The group claims it held its first meeting of activists in Berlin last month. It said the meeting touched on issues ranging from "solidarity with Israel, anti-Semitism, capitalism, and Islam."

[Evil_shah]

This just proves that Zionism is a virus ideology that seems to infect and manipulate every side of the spectrum.Like the Neo cons for example

[IchLiebeDachau]

Hmm... Israel is currently the closes state which resembles Hitler's Germany. However, that seems like a good troll.

[ogenoct]

However, that seems like a good troll.

What do you mean?

Constantin

[ogenoct]

http://www.nazi.org/community/columns/martinez/

National Socialists for Israel

Controversies don't last long. They appear in a blur of media attention, flicker across our collective consciousness, and vanish into a cloud of items similarly demanding attention. Our society, motivated by the need of individuals to make news and promote themselves, and of news agencies to keep something that appears controversial but is innocuous in the news, retains nothing more than two weeks.

One controversy that should have stayed newsworthy was the bemused irritation at "National Socialists for Israel," a German group who endorsed Israel, made pro-Jewish statements, and yet claimed to be National Socialism (Nazism) in a pure form. Most of the public scratched their heads at this seeming paradox and forgot it an hour later. But was it a paradox at all?

Let's look at their statements first.

"Israel also has a right to exist," their website announces, and heaps praise on the military independence of the Jewish people over the last 2,000 years. "It is our duty as neo-Nazis to defend this supreme success," it continues, lambasting anti-Semitic nationalists as "politicos, cowards, and reactionaries."

The most controversial statement however is this one, translated by Norman Finkelstein: "We must view what is referred to as 'the Holocaust' within the context of acts of self-defense undertaken by nations under threat." However, they added, "there is no justification for it," and suggested that the Nazis should have supported the Zionist cause instead.

We at the LNSG agree with this position as part of our longstanding belief that nationalism is the correct form of government for all ethnicities, and that by mutually supporting this right, we will free each other from the dominance of nation-states that destroy traditional cultures and replace them with commerce, popularity contest media, and a quest for individualism that leaves people hollow and spiritless.

As stated in Hitler and Anti-Semitism, we believe that the NSDAP's mania for destroying the Jewish population arose from a mis-interpretation of their own beliefs. For Europeans, Jewish-style materialistic philosophy is the exact opposite of the kind of transcendental idealism that has characterized European belief systems for as far into the past as history can see.

The most important unmentioned concept here however is context. In the context of Germany, Judaic thought is out of place. In the context of Israel, Germanic thought is. Each culture needs its own space, and its own beliefs, and to mix them is to cause what people now call "racism" and "anti-Semitism." Multiculturalism, a form of pluralism, creates the antagonisms we know as prejudice.

Theodor Herzl, the famous Zionist, knew this. He wrote:

"The Jewish question persists wherever Jews live in appreciable numbers. Wherever it does not exist, it is brought in together with Jewish immigrants. We are naturally drawn into those places where we are not persecuted, and our appearance there gives rise to persecution. This is the case, and will inevitably be so, everywhere, even in highly civilised countries—see, for instance, France—so long as the Jewish question is not solved on the political level. The unfortunate Jews are now carrying the seeds of anti-Semitism into England; they have already introduced it into America."

His point was that since each nation has a nationality, introduction of a "nationless" group, for example Jews, will cause resentment and bring about the kind of prejudice that has marked anti-Jewish activity in every host nation they have had. Herzl saw the situation as a relatively blameless one; Jews were wandering in the diaspora, looking for a place to live, but because the inhabitants of those places wanted to preserve their own national culture, they fought back with bigotry.

"National Socialists for Israel" seem to know this as well. They recognize, as does the LNSG, that the Holocaust was the result of a misunderstanding which enabled sentiment against Jewish ideas and Jewish presence in Germany to be carried too far into an attack on its physical manifestation, which would be Jews themselves. It is enough for us to say that each nation needs to be composed of its own traditional ethnicity, with its traditional culture and language and values intact.

As sensible people, we know that to extend this to one group and not another will engender resentment, and unless we want to commit literal xenocide, there is no point in such antagonism. Conversely, extending this right to others -- a process called Pan-Nationalism -- means that we call all enjoy our native cultures and not suffer the cultureless, cosmopolitan grey race that mercantile nation-states create.

Even more, this warning is timely. Israel struggles with the question of Palestinians, its Arab underclass, who both work jobs Israelis want to outsource and support policies subverting the Jewish-only state of Israel. Palestinians are comparable to Roma/Sinti in Europe, Mexicans and African-Americans in the USA, and Saami in Nordic countries: an extragenetic population with some recent claim to the land, but of different abilities and inclinations than the host population which now dominates it. These situations produce virulent racism and an ugly, passive-aggressive counterreaction.

We call these "discrimination situations," and they have attributes in common:

1. The population in question has a contested name, and pick a new one.
2. Constant accusations of casual discrimination and bigoted commentary.
3. They have high rates of suicide, alcoholism, unemployment, crime.
4. They form their own contra-national party and identity.
5. They always need welfare and legal help from their host nation.

At the stage where discrimination situations have arisen, the situation will only worsen until the national principle is restored: one people -- ethnically, culturally, linguistically and in values systems -- per nation. The idea of the "nation-state," or that we can bond people together with political and economic principles alone, is inherently deconstructive and as a result fails to capture the context of its interactions over time. Nation-states create racism. Nationalism cures it.

For this reason, as well as simple decency, all National Socialists and neo-Nazis should support Israel and the return of Israel to a national socialist state. National Socialism (Nazism) represents the principle by which all ancient nations were constructed, which is fierce nationalism with a state that defends its people against excessive commerce while maintaining competition. Israel is both our past and a future inspiration, and with brotherhood we can both achieve our aims in transcending the nation-state.