Rome - HBO show

[Ambrosio Spinola]

I watched in the last days with some friends the whole season 1 marathon style. Excellent stuff...now I hear rumors HBO might chicken out of a second season. Hope this si not true since I´m tired of re-running I Claudius for the tenth time :D

[Pablo Escobar]

I'm waiting for HBO here, and a friend of mine is downloading the series.

I hear it'll take 'em 2 years to make one season.

[Martin Kuklinski]

I watched in the last days with some friends the whole season 1 marathon style. Excellent stuff...now I hear rumors HBO might chicken out of a second season. Hope this si not true since I´m tired of re-running I Claudius for the tenth time :DWe share the same interests. Battlestar Gallactica and now Rome.

Why are they chickening out? Because of the obscenity? I'm at the part where Vorenus and Pullo both rescued the Egyptian queen; Cleopatra. Pullo is by the way my favorite character. Can't wait till sunday night.

[The Retard]

It costs too much money to make. I couldn't find a better article, but I think it's the main reason they may not bring it back.

Edit: Oops, wrong review altogether.

[Sulla the Dictator]

I watched in the last days with some friends the whole season 1 marathon style. Excellent stuff...now I hear rumors HBO might chicken out of a second season. Hope this si not true since I´m tired of re-running I Claudius for the tenth time :D

It was expensive, but most of the expense was in the building of the sets, which they've already done.

It did pretty well. Five million viewers, which is half the viewership of the Sopranos at its best rating. I can't see why they would waste their initial start up spending by not doing a second season.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

I´m still trying to figure where did they spend those 100 Million. You might notice that most of the Cinecitta set they used was the same as for the Peter O´Toole "Augustus" and next in line "Nero". God knows they did not spend a penny in the much anticipated battles.

All in all I was very pleased with the overall experience and it would be a real pitty if Pullo would not get his fair share of glory instead of just supplying Vorenus with it.

[Pablo Escobar]

There was some Italian-made series about Rome ( Nero's time )
but it sucked terribly.

It was filmed in N.Africa, with N.African extras.

I wonder why they didn't make it in Cinecitta.

[Dan Dare]

Rome was an HBO/BBC co-production with the former providing most of the dosh, and the latter most of the talent.

The difficulty is that the series received a severe panning from the critics when aired in the UK, not least for its historical inaccuracies. Here's a sample from Simon Jenkins in the Guardian:

....Rome is a mystery. A rambling plot, weighed down by Troy-like dialogue and devoid of suspense, is interrupted - as if for commercial breaks - by inserts of copulation and throat-slitting. The director of the first parts, Michael Apted, has disowned the editing, said to have shortened what was merely bad to what was incoherent. If the BBC denies directors access to the editing suite, what price its much-vaunted artistic integrity?

But Apted and his producers must surely take responsibility for the plot, the script, the acting, the ludicrous sex and violence. The BBC suborned every outlet, even Radio 4's Today programme, to give Rome hyperbolic plugs, not least for claims to "historical accuracy". As Robert Harris has pointed out, it is as accurate as depicting Clemmie Churchill having sex with Ribbentrop and poisoning Chamberlain before the second world war. If this is what you get for a compulsory licence fee, give me subscription television any day.

Much has been made of Rome being a £60m co-production with America's HBO, to which the BBC contributed £9m. Something apparently went terribly wrong when the elephantine production went on location in Italy. Hannibal had the same trouble. But what is the virtue of a public service co-production if artistic control is abrogated, assuming it was? The fact is that the BBC blew millions on a turkey. Its executives are the highest-paid group in the public sector. If they were not protected by a charter, heads would roll. What with Up Pompeii, Caligula and now this, the Roman empire is taking a terrible revenge on us northerners for what the Goths did to it back in AD410. It must be time to call it quits.

.... [In Rome the BBC is] franticly trying to ape Hollywood. It is all big hotels, Armani suits, Roman temples, bed-hopping and back-stabbing. It regards art as for Greeks. Real Romans eat ratings. Any critic of Rome is warned that 6.6 million people watched the first episode. Too bad if a thousand artists were thrown to the lions. Tessa Jowell, the Atia of culture, wants numbers. This BBC throws legions steeped in blood and porn into battle against Pompey and Sky, Americans and Gauls.


simon.jenkins@guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,1640084,00.html)

Sorry lads, but it looks like Auntie has got cold feet so if HBO can't paddle their own canoe for Series II, this might be the moment to dust off Claudius for another outing.:D

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Yes, I recall that movie and all the Moor extras which made Rome a nice Tunisian City :D Yet the movie was not THAT bad in that it white washed poor Nero from so much Christian slander propaganda.

Hey...since you have seen the series...Question...Pullo got his girl from those deserting Pompeian legionaires and their gold wagon. Those deserters got the girl just outside Rome as it is show how one Cavalry man picks her up and takes her along. I mean...if she was already a slave then she must have belonged to someone, right? I find it hard to believe you can just take a slave along without any trouble and the slave not saying a peep.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Perhaps a runaway slave?

[Donny the Punk]

I couldn't stand the series and quit watching after the third episode or so. To stretch a paragraph from The Conquest of Gaul over ten hours with mostly lesbian sex filling in the gaps was an abysmal idea.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Stupid jelous Brits, "Oh, its not a copy-paste of Claudius, lets burn it". Sure, some plots were taken a bit to far (Servillia-Caesar Octavian-Octavia) and we had a nice share of bare shlongs and what not. Still the plot is great and an easy way to make this intricate history be easier to swallow.

I hope HBO cuts its looses and drops those limeys.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Perhaps a runaway slave?

Did you see it? A runaway slave? With an amphorae under her arm walking on the main road? Mhhhh.
I know they were airing the show in Belgium. In Spain some newly created private channel bought the rights with the end results that almost no one had the chance to see it. Thanks Emule!

No sign of DVD yet at Amazon.

[Martin Kuklinski]

*No more spoilers. Please!*

[Ambrosio Spinola]

I couldn't stand the series and quit watching after the third episode or so. To stretch a paragraph from The Conquest of Gaul over ten hours with mostly lesbian sex filling in the gaps was an abysmal idea.

Lesbian sex did not start till episode 6 or 7 so I guess you hold out a bit longer. The show was not about the Gallic wars at all btw...:p

[Ambrosio Spinola]

*No more spoilers. Please!*

What spoiler? If you are at Opium smoking Cleopatra then you have seen Pullo save the slave girl.

[Pablo Escobar]

Yes, I recall that movie and all the Moor extras which made Rome a nice Tunisian City :D Yet the movie was not THAT bad in that it white washed poor Nero from so much Christian slander propaganda.

Yeah, I liked that they showed Nero in a bit more realistic light,
sadly, I missed the episodes right after the slave girl disappointed Nero.

I blame the Croatian national tv for that :D

[Jimbo Gomez]

I saw it yes. I must admit I don't remember what she was carrying when they took her.

[Martin Kuklinski]

What spoiler? If you are at Opium smoking Cleopatra then you have seen Pullo save the slave girl.Yes i've seen that. But i havent seen the part where Octavius had incest with his sister. *shit, just ratted on myself*

Still, im a bit dissapointed about the battles. - Phora's Rome-watching crowd: what battles? Exactly. Where were the battles? A show that was finally repped up after 6 years doesnt even contain battles of Romans fighting against the Germanics, Gallics, or the Egyptians. Maybe later?

[brigadier Biggles]

was alright, i watched a few episodes when it was aired on BBC2 here but most of it was too boring for me.

one of the final episodes has some really gory gladiator fighting in it, best part of the whole thing.

[Sulla the Dictator]

I couldn't stand the series and quit watching after the third episode or so. To stretch a paragraph from The Conquest of Gaul over ten hours with mostly lesbian sex filling in the gaps was an abysmal idea.

Oh Potyondi.....say this isn't so......:nono:

[Donny the Punk]

Not everybody likes a nice penis, Sulla. :p

[Sulla the Dictator]

I won't forgive the Brits if they ruin this glorious series.

Which, by the way, is the most historically accurate historical film about the Classical world ever made, nitpicking aside.

[Sulla the Dictator]

Not everybody likes a nice penis, Sulla. :p

This series is stuffed the gills with naked attractive women. :p

[Donny the Punk]

Not even all their combined naughty bits, however tantalising, could distract from the total lack of a narrative. :( I do recommend it as a soft porno, though. :p

[Sulla the Dictator]

Not even all their combined naughty bits, however tantalising, could distract from the total lack of a narrative. :( I do recommend it as a soft porno, though. :p

Anyone who brings Potyondi's head to the rostrum will be granted 10% of the value of his total wealth and property. :p

[brigadier Biggles]

you 2 obviously have some chemistry, maybe its time to take this chat up line to MSN or something :rofl:

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Oh, I´m happy that we finally have some clarity regarding Season 2:

http://www.ciaranhinds.com/

HBO's Rome
SEASON 2 currently in pre-production
co-starring James Purefoy and Polly Walker
filming starts in Italy, summer 2006.

March 7, 2006: Lots of news today! Ciarán Hinds is set to reprise his role as Caesar in the first episodes of the second season of "Rome" on HBO. There will also be a premiere for "Rome" (season one) in Rome, on March 15th. (beware the Ides of March...)

I do hope they take the chance to improve upon the errors made and give us finally some good clash of steel.

Stuff I did not like..

I cannot understand why fans of Roman history would even countenance a portrayal of Julius Caesar as a semi-idiot, who forgets that there is a civil war to be fought because he is so enchanted by a 57-year old Servillia. Or the highly intelligent and willful Cleopatra as a doped-up nymphomaniac; or Alexandria as a decaying Egyptian city at the edge of the desert; or how "Rome" semi-adhered to the timeline until about Episode 3, which it actually turned into parody. After that, the show was all over the place. Let me count the ways: the early stages of the civil war are missing (the siege of Corfinium, the dash to Brindisi, the siege of Marsilia, the war in Spain, the trench warfare around Dyrrhachion, the march to central Greece, the fight of basic supplies...all gone), the Alexandrine war is missing, the African war is barely shown, the 2nd campaign to Spain (and the battle of Munda in which Octavian was present) are also missing. The worse omissions are actually the period between 46 to 44 BC and the whole period in which Julius Caesar started his legislative program.

[WFHermans]

The kikes use the taxpayers money to make and show pedophile porn movies, full of lies about the Aryans. The kikes are still angry that the Romans killed 6 billion kikelets in Torah rolls, as they write in their Talmud.
Again the jews lie about history. This movie is as accurate as Schindler's List.

...it is as accurate as depicting Clemmie Churchill having sex with Ribbentrop and poisoning Chamberlain before the second world war.

Don't give the kikenvermin any ideas.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Seriously WFH, what is wrong with you? Do you talk like that every day on the street with your neighbors or is it just here?


Btw...awesome shot:

http://www.hbo.com/rome/img/winterized/hp/homepage_wint01.jpg

[WFHermans]

It's just here. :)

I agree, awesome shot. Films like these are useful because they can be edited into good movies.

[Kodos]

I cannot understand why fans of Roman history would even countenance a portrayal of Julius Caesar as a semi-idiot, who forgets that there is a civil war to be fought because he is so enchanted by a 57-year old Servillia. Or the highly intelligent and willful Cleopatra as a doped-up nymphomaniac; or Alexandria as a decaying Egyptian city at the edge of the desert; or how "Rome" semi-adhered to the timeline until about Episode 3, which it actually turned into parody.

SPOILER ALERT

I mostly liked it except I thought one part was pretty outrageous... Octavius and Octavia well you know what I mean...

In the season finale I didn't think Servillia's openly taking credit for the assasination was very realistic( especially since she wasn't proscribed) she'd be writing to Antony pleading with him to spare her life and protect her from the mob and that she had no knowledge or involvement in Caesar's assasination.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

It seems an Italian broadcasting group has joined the proyect and there is talk about a total of 60 episodes in 5 years time. Huzzah!

[WFHermans]

Now that the sets are built and all that, there's no reason why this series couldn't be developed into a daily soap.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

I just got the news bit from the site. Hopefully they will flesh out a bit the historic aspect and mellow down the "hollywood" effect that has given it so many critique over here.

HBO's epic drama series ROMESM has begun production on its ten-episode second season, it was announced by Carolyn Strauss, president, HBO Entertainment. Filming of the new episodes will continue at Rome's Cinecitta Studios through next October, with debut set for 2007.

"This exciting series offers a spectacle unlike anything else on TV," noted Strauss. "The new episodes of ROME will go deeper into the intriguing characters and provocative storylines that made the first season a hit with critics and subscribers."

Chronicling the fall of a republic and the rise of an empire, the first season of ROME wrapped last December. TV Guide hailed it as a "feast for the eyes" and a "ripping good story," as well as a "shamelessly enjoyable historical romp," while the Washington Post described the series as "ravishing and wickedly shocking," and "a feast for the senses that includes generous portions of food for thought." In addition, ROME received two Golden Globe® nominations: Best Television Series - Drama and Best Performance by an Actress in a Television Series - Drama (Polly Walker).

[Sulla the Dictator]

It seems an Italian broadcasting group has joined the proyect and there is talk about a total of 60 episodes in 5 years time. Huzzah!

That is great news. Between Rome, Carnivale, Deadwood, and even the Sopranos, HBO is shaping up to be the best storytelling group in the medium.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Ugh!!!! :(

News that "Rome" shuts down after two seasons comes as some surprise -- show is a solid ratings performer and has sold well overseas. But with the commitments to several new drama projects, HBO has deemed "Rome" a two-season-and-out series, and Albrecht reminded TV writers that the network has no set criteria for how it schedules and orders shows.

Albrecht also noted that "Rome" is not inexpensive. He characterized it as both an "enormous investment" -- the show's $100 million production budget was widely reported -- and "the most cost-efficient show we do," having production partners in the BBC and Italy's RAI.

"The BBC and RAI are only signed for two seasons. It's a big (financial) bite for them. And for us," Albrecht said, earlier noting that the project was initially conceived as a miniseries. "Then again, we may decide that the food in Rome is so good and figure out a way (to keep it going)."

[Dan Dare]

This Series Has Now Ended (http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/rome/)

Auntie has spoken.

Now off to bed with you.

[themistocles]

HBO's Rome comes out on DVD this month. Huzzah! :viking:

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Got mine via Amazon.co.uk already a week ago. Very nice to see again with the historical footnotes activated. Have caught already a couple of pious inventions so far :D

[///M power]

does any watch/watched Rome?
I found HBO shows to be really good,almost always.
oz/sopranos/Rome.
when is the second season coming out?
anyway I found in episode number 9 good material for Jew haters :)
apparently the person that controls Atias(Niece of Caesar) thugs is Jewish,there is scene that she sends him and his thugs to kill and beat someone,and then the thug-boss (Timon is his name) wears a "kipa" on his head,and he says its "yom Kipur"-a Jewish holiday, but then again,if its "yom kippur" you are not allowed to do any work,and of course not beat up and kill people.:bbbat:
anyway this show is real Strong, like oz, you can see there fully nude scenes,killing and murder-lots of that, rape, sex between brother and sister and many other stuff.
I like shows that are not afraid to show you stuff like that.
also there very very nice scenes there from battles or the looks of ancient Rome.
I recommend everyone to watch this show.

[///M power]

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/3597/rome1280x10247go7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[///M power]

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7799/posterartman1024x768qw7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[///M power]

no one is watching this great show?

[Boleslaw]

I watch it. My favorite charcter is Vorenius, since he upholds Republican virtues.

Wasnt there a thread here about how they cancelled the second season? I certainly hope thats not the case.

[///M power]

what?????????????
canceled????????/
no!!!!
its the best show!!!!!! :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

my favorite is also Vorenius,he reminds me of my father.

[Sulla the Dictator]

There is going to be another season.

[Kodos]

I watch it. My favorite charcter is Vorenius, since he upholds Republican virtues.

Wasnt there a thread here about how they cancelled the second season? I certainly hope thats not the case.

Antony is definitely the best character, Octavian is the most like me... but they had to make that stupid episode where he ****** his sister.

That shouldn't have gotten in...

[Ambrosio Spinola]

There is already an arse long thread floating around in Popular culture about this show and comments about it.

Filming for the second season is well underway in Italy and we will be able to start seeing it in january 2007. There wont be a third season though acording to HBO.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Marc Antony was the best character. Great show.

[///M power]

I'm very happy that there is a second season!!,and by the way I think I hold the record here for watching Rome, I watched in a day and half, 12 episodes! it was so good I couldn't stop! (I have it on DVD)

anyway I'm happy that hermans doesn't see it,he would have spoiled it by making comments about the Jew guy over there.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Every show has its token Jew and like all others also on this one he gets abused out of the blue, reinforcing that "hunted throughout ages" myth.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Every show has its token Jew and like all others also on this one he gets abused out of the blue, reinforcing that "hunted throughout ages" myth.


Timon doesn't get all that much abuse in the show.

[Sulla the Dictator]

Every show has its token Jew and like all others also on this one he gets abused out of the blue, reinforcing that "hunted throughout ages" myth.

Eh? Timon is a murderous gang member. His ethnicity just makes him Eastern and incapable of mixing in Roman society for storyline purposes. He's not much of a victim. :p

[Ambrosio Spinola]

There was like really no need at all to plant some Askenazim Jew in the middle of 50 BC Rome in such a prominent role just out of the blue. It smacked to the "Oh, lets put a Jew in there and we look cooler and super history geeks". Timon gets abused for being a Jew several times in the series. To the point actually that I tried real hard to understand how they would pick him out for being a Jew to start with like the scene where he is trying to find a lawyer to defend Pullo.

[///M power]

Every show has its token Jew and like all others also on this one he gets abused out of the blue, reinforcing that "hunted throughout ages" myth.

where is that abuse in the first season? he is a leader that controls many operations over there,dirty or not,he does his job.
I dont see abuse here.he makes money,he fucks his royal employer-Atia,poor guy!!!:)
also if you like HBO shows you probably watched the sopranos also, the Jew there is one of the key guys that the bosses consult with,they always come to him for advice,just like in the real world where Italians-Jews worked together in the old mafia in the states,most of Italians employed Jews and the other way around,since Jews knows how to do business) there isn't a single Italian mob film that doesn't have Jews.

[///M power]

Eh? Timon is a murderous gang member. His ethnicity just makes him Eastern and incapable of mixing in Roman society for storyline purposes. He's not much of a victim. :p

at least I agree with you this time.:)

[///M power]

There was like really no need at all to plant some Askenazim Jew in the middle of 50 BC Rome in such a prominent role just out of the blue. It smacked to the "Oh, lets put a Jew in there and we look cooler and super history geeks". Timon gets abused for being a Jew several times in the series. To the point actually that I tried real hard to understand how they would pick him out for being a Jew to start with like the scene where he is trying to find a lawyer to defend Pullo.

there were Jews who lived in Rome in Julius caesar time,he was ok,he didn't allow tax money to be collected from Jews in ancient Israel,and about his time +- ,the Jewish synagogue in Rome was built. Jews mourned his death.
the real problems with the romans started mostly after Christ. (the rebellion and all that)

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Yes, I´m aware that for sure there were Jews in Rome...What I´m saying is that their significance is taken way out of proportion in this show for puer modern kicks of adding the "token Jew" and dazzle us with their knowledge that the choosen ones were there already. And he does not look "Jewish" at all in regards of what a Jew would have looked like 50 BC (No Askenazim?).

I´m not saying that the persona Timon represents gets abused...rather the notion of Jewry. In the lawyer hiring sequence he gets mocked away with "Go away Jew!".

[Jimbo Gomez]

Ebus. You sound like an ADL guy whining about antisemitism here. How is saying 'go away jew' abusive on account of him being a jew? I doubt you actually mean to say this, but this comes close to that dumbass claim that even the use of the word jew is antisemitic.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

You think placing a Jew talking about Yom Kippur in 50 BC Rome is not PC talk? Watch the lawyer sequence and tell me not if he was using "Jew" as an insult.

[Jimbo Gomez]

You think placing a Jew talking about Yom Kippur in 50 BC Rome is not PC talk? Watch the lawyer sequence and tell me not if he was using "Jew" as an insult.


I don't think it was an insult and I saw that scene a few times.

[///M power]

Ebusitanus,I really fail to see your point. the guy is a leader,the guy screws Atia which is royal,he makes money and lots of money from his businesses, thats a lot for a Jew at Rome in ancient time.so I fail to see how because he was called a Jew he is a "poor Jew" and abused :whip:
anyway,I'm surprised that you have a problem that the Jew was "white", but you dont mention that the main character Lucius Vorenus is very very Nordic looking,nothing roman about him,when romans at that time didn't look Nordic.
when he was speaking to the public at the last episode I think,one of the people in the city shouted that he is not really roman because of his Nordic appearance.
he really doesn't fit in there because of his appearance,so if something is odd at that show its this.(anyway he is my favorite character over there so it doesn't really matter to me)

[///M power]

Ebusitanus, I'm the Jew here, aren't I suppose to cry that the Jew was discriminated over there, instead of you?
when the Jews dont complain you complain on their behalf

[Jimbo Gomez]

Ebusitanus, I'm the Jew here, aren't I suppose to cry that the Jew was discriminated over there, instead of you?
when the Jews dont complain you complain on their behalf


Hahaha I was thinking that too. This has got to be one of the most atypical conversations ever between a jew and a 'nazi', with the nazi pointing out antisemitism and the jew brushing it aside.

Welcome to the Phora ladies and gentlemen. :D

[///M power]

Ebus. You sound like an ADL guy whining about antisemitism here. How is saying 'go away jew' abusive on account of him being a jew? I doubt you actually mean to say this, but this comes close to that dumbass claim that even the use of the word jew is antisemitic.

yes thats what I meant in my last message!
I think the Jews payed him. :rofl: :rofl:

[///M power]

ok,we have telepathy Stan.

[Jimbo Gomez]

ok,we have telepathy Stan.


That one post just cost me the last crumb of street credibility I had left with the nutzis. :( :viking:

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Ebusitanus, I'm the Jew here, aren't I suppose to cry that the Jew was discriminated over there, instead of you?
when the Jews dont complain you complain on their behalf

I guess I´m explaing myself rather badly...
There is this tendency to fit a Jew into most shows or movies. Not to make the Jew look grandiose but rather to make them look like everybody else. In that you see Jew thugs, Jew whore, Jew begars, Jew drugadicts, etc...trying to get away from this Jew = Rich bastard sterotype.
Its not about there being Jews in Rome..its about making up a totally ficticious character Jewish.

And regardless what our resident Nazi Jew says that scene despicts a Roman dismissing that guy despectively.

Btw..Not that I will go into the whole Rome Med/Nord thing but Roman society must not have been much different from what we have nowadays in Italy, including blondes. Several Emperors were notoriously blond or light eyed.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

That one post just cost me the last crumb of street credibility I had left with the nutzis. :( :viking:

That happened already a while ago :p

[///M power]

Ebusitanus]I guess I´m explaing myself rather badly...
There is this tendency to fit a Jew into most shows or movies. Not to make the Jew look grandiose but rather to make them look like everybody else. In that you see Jew thugs, Jew whore, Jew begars, Jew drugadicts, etc...trying to get away from this Jew = Rich bastard sterotype.
Its not about there being Jews in Rome..its about making up a totally ficticious character Jewish.

well maybe because not all Jews are rich!!! there are Jews mobsters,Jew baggers,Jew drug addicts(like my cousin) and so on, if Jews wouldn't have those problems we wouldn't be human:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I mean just look at the history of American mafia,Italians and Jews always had this bond,Vegas,new York,doesn't matter where,grew up in the same places,both immigrated and both had same ambitions to make big $$ in America,they both used each other,there were always Jews where smart crime was made.
take a look at every mob movie,there is always a Jew with the Italians,and its not because some politically correct thing,this is actually what happened in the early 20th century in America.
and judging by the role that "Timon the Jew" has in "Rome" then its not far from that,he is respected crook thats it, if they were to put Timon in a respectable position in society I would have agreed with you and say that its far off from reality.but Jews,always,because they couldn't use their smart heads in the society then they did it "underground" in old times,like that Timon,or by landing money,tradings, and so on...



Btw..Not that I will go into the whole Rome Med/Nord thing but Roman society must not have been much different from what we have nowadays in Italy, including blondes. Several Emperors were notoriously blond or light eyed

dont compare todays Italy to ancient Rome, Rome wasn't exactly friends or open to people who had that Nordic appearance since they were at war with them. original ancient romans and northern European tribes looked differently and you know that.
this is why they knew something was not right about making the main actor Nordic,so they made that scene when the crowed shout to him that his not roman ,he is Gallic,and he admits he doesn't have roman appearance and he say that his wife is roman and as you can see she has that Italian appearance exactly, so even they admitted that most romans didn't look Nordic.

[Boleslaw]

my favorite is also Vorenius,he reminds me of my father.

Same here.


Antony is definitely the best character,

I usually prefer men of integrity over loud-mouths, hence why I like Vorenius.


Octavian is the most like me... but they had to make that stupid episode where he ****** his sister.

Yes I agree, what was even the point of that?

[Boleslaw]

there were Jews who lived in Rome in Julius caesar time,he was ok,he didn't allow tax money to be collected from Jews in ancient Israel,and about his time +- ,the Jewish synagogue in Rome was built. Jews mourned his death.
the real problems with the romans started mostly after Christ. (the rebellion and all that)

"The settlement of the Jews at Rome probably dates from that time. Under Pompey they came in numbers, and as early as 58 B.C., they had quite a settlement. Turbulent and formidable, they were an important factor in politics. Caesar availed himself of their support during the civil wars and lavished favours upon them; he even granted them exemption from military service. Under Augustus the distribution of free bread was postponed for them whenever it fell due on Saturday. The Emperor gave them permission to collect the didrachm which was sent to Palestine, and he ordered the sacrifice of one or two lambs to be offered in his behalf at the Temple of Jerusalem for all time to come. When Tiberius became emperor, there were at Rome 20,000 Jews, who were organized in colleges and sodalitates."
--Bernard Lazare Anti-Semitism: Its History and Causes pg.21

[Petr]

Yes I agree, what was even the point of that?
Perhaps to show how abominably lax the sexual morality of imperial Romans was?

I understand that in his youth, real Octavian allowed himself to be sodomized more than once by powerful men in order to further his social career. (Like Julius Caesar with king of Bithynia)


Christianity has set such a high standard to Western morality that even many post-Christians have hard time comprehending just how rotten pagans could have been.


Petr

[Boleslaw]

I dont think incest was tolerated in Rome, in fact this point is even made clear in the series when the mother Atia strikes Octavian down shouting "You fucked your sister you little pervert."

Yes the Romans were laxed, but even then they still had boundaries(unlike today).

[Petr]

I understand that in his youth, real Octavian allowed himself to be sodomized more than once by powerful men in order to further his social career. (Like Julius Caesar with king of Bithynia)
Suetonius records some rumors:

68. In his early youth various aspersions of an infamous character were heaped upon him. Sextus Pompey reproached him with being an effeminate fellow; and Mark Antony, with earning his adoption from his uncle by improper means. Lucius Antony, likewise Mark's brother, charges him with the same.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/suetonius-augustus.html


Petr

[///M power]

I usually prefer men of integrity over loud-mouths, hence why I like Vorenius.

this is why Vorenius reminds me of my father,ever since he retired from the military he was offered so many political jobs and he refused them all,he hates politics,he hates lies and he doesn't trust them or want to be like them, even now in the war he refused to talk in the TV stations and he was called to come so many times, he is really one of the most honest man I know.

[Boleslaw]

The basic story applies to my father as well, except that he never was offered a political job(not that I know of). He's disgusted with politicians and how they continually sell our country out. He's tired of all the political correct BS and so on.

[///M power]

"The settlement of the Jews at Rome probably dates from that time. Under Pompey they came in numbers, and as early as 58 B.C., they had quite a settlement. Turbulent and formidable, they were an important factor in politics. Caesar availed himself of their support during the civil wars and lavished favours upon them; he even granted them exemption from military service. Under Augustus the distribution of free bread was postponed for them whenever it fell due on Saturday. The Emperor gave them permission to collect the didrachm which was sent to Palestine, and he ordered the sacrifice of one or two lambs to be offered in his behalf at the Temple of Jerusalem for all time to come. When Tiberius became emperor, there were at Rome 20,000 Jews, who were organized in colleges and sodalitates."
--Bernard Lazare Anti-Semitism: Its History and Causes pg.21

I didn't know there were so many Jews there at that time. I thought maybe 5000 at most.

[///M power]

The basic story applies to my father as well, except that he never was offered a political job(not that I know of). He's disgusted with politicians and how they continually sell our country out. He's tired of all the political correct BS and so on.

was he in the military also? what rank?
anyway this is what hasn't changed from ancient times to now,politics=corruption,lies.

[Boleslaw]

was he in the military also? what rank?

No he wasnt, mainly due to some unsual family connections.


anyway this is what hasn't changed from ancient times to now,politics=corruption,lies.

"Everything begins in mysticism and ends in politics" as Peguy noted. I myself have becomed disgusted with politics to no end.

[Sulla the Dictator]

Yes, I´m aware that for sure there were Jews in Rome...What I´m saying is that their significance is taken way out of proportion in this show for puer modern kicks of adding the "token Jew" and dazzle us with their knowledge that the choosen ones were there already. And he does not look "Jewish" at all in regards of what a Jew would have looked like 50 BC (No Askenazim?).


Thats true, he does fit in to well appearance wise to be an athentic Jew from the period. He looks more like an Alexandrian or a fat Greek. BUT his character is one of the gutter sweepings of the city, and whatever power or wealth he has comes from service to a rather revolting person. Voluntary service, done with a smile as we saw when he murdered that fellow.


I´m not saying that the persona Timon represents gets abused...rather the notion of Jewry. In the lawyer hiring sequence he gets mocked away with "Go away Jew!".

As I recall, he is wearing the skullcap. I think its pretty neat that he's in it, since as I recall from somewhere, someone had made mention of Jews in Milo's gangs.

[Sulla the Dictator]

(Like Julius Caesar with king of Bithynia)


Thats a lie put forth by Caesar's enemies.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

To trust Sextus Pompeius to talk nothing but smack about Caesar and Octavian is not knowing who that man was.

OTOH I would really like to know where that 20.000 figure for Jews in Rome under Tiberius comes from.

Sulla, he does not wear the skullcap...thats why I kept trying to find some garment he might have worn that would have made such an abuse so obvious and straightforward given he even laughted at the Lawyers´pagan humor.

[///M power]

are you kidding?,he wears that cap so many times!
its called "kipa"
anyway I think he is Jew in real life also, his family name is Boardman.
if you have it on DVD check out the episode when he sends his man to kill Servilias servants and humiliate her,before the act he wears the kipa on his head and someone asks him why does he wear that,and he says its because its "yom kipur" day.

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Yes, and thats the only day he wear that cap. When he goes to get a lawyer for Pullo he does not wear it nor does he in any other scene I can recall besides the Yom Kippur thug attack.

[///M power]

Yes, and thats the only day he wear that cap. When he goes to get a lawyer for Pullo he does not wear it nor does he in any other scene I can recall besides the Yom Kippur thug attack.

because he is not an Orthodox or something like that, so he doesn't wear that all the time,you can see by the way he acts and make his life that he is not a dedicated man to religion, he is a thug.
most people wear the kipa only on spacial events,and not all the time,only people who are extremely religious wear that "kipa" all the time.
anyway he does wear it a few other scenes as i can remember,and anyway it doesn't make any difference,its enough he wears it on "yom kipur"

[Mike]

Spoiler Warnings, this post and hereafter.

It is a testament to the HBO Rome series that, despite some of the truly needless sexually perverted plot lines and graphic content, I have to admit I am a great fan of the series, literally the only television I have followed diligently in the last decade.

The second series started out pretty awesome, but it I thought episode 15 (s2e3) was rather dark and humorless. Starting with this episode, I am officially growing weary of the constant resort to sodomy and perversion as a means of advancing the plot. Yes, sex and sexual aggression are part of human life, but not every event in the series need focus on these things. I watched s2e4 tonight and found it a little more palatable. I look forward to seeing how Caesar Augustus fares in the next few episodes.

I don't see the need for the increasing prominence of Timon, and I hope we can discuss the other characters on this thread.

[Sulla the Dictator]

The second series started out pretty awesome, but it I thought episode 15 (s2e3) was rather dark and humorless. Starting with this episode, I am officially growing weary of the constant resort to sodomy and perversion as a means of advancing the plot. Yes, sex and sexual aggression are part of human life, but not every event in the series need focus on these things.


I think the amount of sex is ALMOST just right.


I watched s2e4 tonight and found it a little more palatable. I look forward to seeing how Caesar Augustus fares in the next few episodes.

I don't see the need for the increasing prominence of Timon, and I hope we can discuss the other characters on this thread.

Now, I can understand why many Phorans might not like the presence of Timon. However, I think the writers are actually doing something really clever here, kind if a two birds with one stone thing. Jews being the closest things to Christians during the period allow a small voice (NOT in the way of Timon, really, but of his brother) of modernity to be projected into the show. Thats not a part I like, but its so well done that I don't mind it. His brother displays a Judeo/Christian disgust of Roman society. All well and good. Probably a pretty accurate attitude for a religious Judean to have, visitng Rome.

The particularly clever thing they're doing is showing a "foreign" people, in Rome. People wouldn't really appreciate the nuances or historical details of Thracians or Numidians. They do know who Jews are, and in this case the antiquity of the Jewish religion allows for people to appreciate the relationship between the Roman and the foreign. Notice, all Romans KNOW Timon is a Jew even though he doesn't really wear anything distinctly Jewish, or advertise it. He must walk a fine line between respect for Roman rule and his own traditions, practiced almost entirely in his own home.