Post Modern "Christians"

[Westminster]

"PARADIGM SHIFTING SANDS PRODUCE UNSTABLE FOUNDATIONS

...today’s “Greater Evangelical Community” is sacrificing its children on the altar of postmodernism while pragmatically proclaiming great success in “building the Kingdom of God”. However, when a closer look is taken at those involved in today’s western religious scene, the appalling truth of even this generation’s desperate condition comes to the forefront.

The evidence of this widespread issue is confirmed by a survey taken by Barna Research Group of 2033 adults in a November 2003. The results were shocking, to say the least:

· 4% of adults surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 9% of “Born-again Christians” surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 7% of Protestants surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 2% of mainline Protestants surveyed have a biblical worldview

· .04% of Roman Catholics surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 13% of nondenominational Protestants surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 10% of Pentecostals surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 8% of Baptists surveyed have a biblical worldview

Barna then added:

“Among the most prevalent alternative worldviews was postmodernism... For the purposes of the research, a biblical worldview was defined as believing that absolute moral truths exist; that such truth is defined by the Bible; and firm belief in six specific religious views. Those views were that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life; God is the all-powerful and all-knowing Creator of the universe and He stills rules it today; salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earned; Satan is real; a Christian has a responsibility to share their faith in Christ with other people; and the Bible is accurate in all of its teachings.” (33)
The information gleaned from this survey was so shocking, Barna conducted a second survey. In this survey, which utilized the same set of questions to determine worldview, 601 Senior Pastors were interviewed nationwide. The results were equally astounding:

· 71% of Southern Baptist pastors surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 59% of pastors surveyed who did not attend seminary have a biblical worldview

· 57% of Baptist pastors (other than SBC) surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 51% of Protestant pastors surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 51% of nondenominational Protestant pastors surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 45% of pastors surveyed who are seminary graduates have a biblical worldview

· 44% of Charismatic and Pentecostal pastors surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 35% of pastors of black churches surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 28% of mainline Protestant pastors surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 27% of Methodist pastors surveyed have a biblical worldview

· 15% of female pastors surveyed have a biblical worldview (34)"

http://www.cuttingedge.org/News/n1506ch13.html

[Hlinkova Garda]

very interesting i would have thought the numbers would have been
way,way higher. Prots seem to put the bible on the same footing as God almost it seems worshiping it ............... Bibliolatry

http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif

[Arrow Cross]

So how about that Flawless Virgin Mary-thing, my good Catholic brother? ;)

[Hlinkova Garda]

now now Brother let us not turn this thread into a subject about the Blessed Mother of God .it is about the Bible and the lack of beliveing they who promote it over all other dogma actuly have in it ................should the author of said survay ask differante Catholic sects about the BVM or some other thing witch we hold as important as they do their Bible i assure you the %'s would be much higher

[Westminster]

now now Brother let us not turn this thread into a subject about the Blessed Mother of God .it is about the Bible and the lack of beliveing they who promote it over all other dogma actuly have in it ................should the author of said survay ask differante Catholic sects about the BVM or some other thing witch we hold as important as they do their Bible i assure you the %'s would be much higher

Actually, the thread is about how 9 out of 10 people who identify as Christian, do not have a Biblical World View. Of course, it is written from the perspective, that a Christian should. It is not meant to be a debate on that issue.

[Hartmann von Aue]

This Barna group is an "evangelical" Protestant organization and the results are skewed accordingly.

If people are curious why the Catholics score so low, it is in part because they put a question about the importance of works for salvation.

Here's a breakdown of an earlier poll this group did:

http://i35.tinypic.com/2wq5v6u.jpg

From this site:

http://www.adherents.com/misc/BarnaPoll.html

[Westminster]

This Barna group is an "evangelical" Protestant organization and the results are skewed accordingly.

If people are curious why the Catholics score so low, it is in part because they put a question about the importance of works for salvation.

Here's a breakdown of an earlier poll this group did:

http://i35.tinypic.com/2wq5v6u.jpg

From this site:

http://www.adherents.com/misc/BarnaPoll.html

"Skewed" implies that the poll is crooked; that seems incorrect.

[Hlinkova Garda]

If people are curious why the Catholics score so low, it is in part because they put a question about the importance of works for salvation.




Or could it be that we as Catholics do not worship the Bible

[Westminster]

Or could it be that we as Catholics do not worship the Bible

A Biblical World View would preclude that.

[Arrow Cross]

Or could it be that we as Catholics do not worship the Bible
We don't worship it either, we just don't accept the various assorted works of medieval popes and bishops as equivalent to the Scriptura. It has to be the only foundation of our faith, not the subject of it, as the Bible is the word of God. I honestly never met a Protestant who believed otherwise.

On the other hand, Catholics elevate Virgin Mary to a status she does not deserve - she was not even close to being Jesus' equal, or flaw- and sinless. While she is to be respected, she really wasn't more than a faithful woman who received the blessing of giving birth to the son of God.

[Westminster]

The Catholic thing isn't anything new.

I think this article is about what Pastors (not priests) are teaching their congregations. Clearly, Pastors are not teaching their congregations A Biblical World View, regardless of their own view (which often is Biblical). The motivation for this appears to be Greed. Naturally, that would include Vanity. In any case, you cannot rely on a Pastor to preach you to a Biblical World View; you have to do it yourself and quite frankly, you'll have to "inoculate" yourself against their preaching.

[Westminster]

Remember, outcome based education is really just another Egalitarian-Marxist- Equality-Crap Program. It's like Affirmative Action for kids. Basically you take a bunch of kids and teach to the bottom, so that everybody gets the "same" or "equal" outcome out of the "education."

Naturally, this is combined with Political Correctness. So, schooling becomes almost a complete waste of time for most kids and often damages their thinking. Remember, the bottom in schools = girls and in a mixed school, Black girls. So, the education in an urban school is probably geared towards, stupid Black girls.

O.k., now onto church! :rofl: The sermon will be written for stupid girls and in a mixed congregation (which mercifully is rare) stupid Black girls. Of course, it will include a good dose of Political Correctness. If you are a White male of average to above average intelligence, you can expect to be bored to tears. If you have a truly Biblical World View, which would violently preclude Political Correctness, you will be offended and perhaps wonder if you are being unfaithful to God, just by being there.

Home School? Home Church? I'm sure it is "on the rise." Although, there is the social scene.

[Hlinkova Garda]

We don't worship it either, we just don't accept the various assorted works of medieval popes and bishops as equivalent to the Scriptura. It has to be the only foundation of our faith, not the subject of it, as the Bible is the word of God. I honestly never met a Protestant who believed otherwise.

On the other hand, Catholics elevate Virgin Mary to a status she does not deserve - she was not even close to being Jesus' equal, or flaw- and sinless. While she is to be respected, she really wasn't more than a faithful woman who received the blessing of giving birth to the son of God.


how long has it been ARROW CROSS?? last year i think my Finn-ugric friend ,just remember i did not throw first blow..............typical hungarian agresion tords Slavs does nothing change ..............you stole this thread as you did part of Slovakia

[Arrow Cross]

how long has it been ARROW CROSS?? last year i think my Finn-ugric friend ,just remember i did not throw first blow..............typical hungarian agresion tords Slavs does nothing change ..............you stole this thread as you did part of Slovakia
Would you care to actually...erm, counter the arguement? It was not meant to be offensive, and I still don't have anything in particular against neither Catholics, nor Slavs, for that matter. There are also many Catholics in Hungary, I myself came over petty internal religious differences pretty much a long time ago.

This thread is about a "Biblical worldview", and you pretended that we Protestants "worship the Bible". I tried to clarify our position, without derailing the thread. If I still did so, my posts may be removed, but if not, I'd appriciate a coherent answer from my northern neighbour.
Preferably in an other style than in that certain topic last year.

Regards, HG.

[Arrow Cross]

“Among the most prevalent alternative worldviews was postmodernism... For the purposes of the research, a biblical worldview was defined as believing that absolute moral truths exist; that such truth is defined by the Bible; and firm belief in six specific religious views. Those views were that Jesus Christ lived a sinless life; God is the all-powerful and all-knowing Creator of the universe and He stills rules it today; salvation is a gift from God and cannot be earned; Satan is real; a Christian has a responsibility to share their faith in Christ with other people; and the Bible is accurate in all of its teachings.”
I agree with these except for the third one: salvation is indeed a gift from God, but one still has to do everything to earn it in life, obeying His commands and living by them, however hard it may be in certain times. Those sitting idle to "receive the gift" live an empty life, unpleasant to the Lord.

As for the Bible, it is accurate in its teachings, but it was not written as a history book, thus, not every information in it has to be necesserly one hundred percent accurate, or literal. There are also many metaphores and translational errors, a great deal of study is necessery to understand it well.
Still, it is unique in a regard that it - unlike the other ancient texts - doesn't present its "protagonists" as flawless heroes descending from the sky, it very much shows us average human beings with many flaws and vices, being put in great times and before many challenges. The Old Testament is full of betrayal, dissent and rebellion against God.

[Westminster]

I agree with these except for the third one: salvation is indeed a gift from God, but one still has to do everything to earn it in life, obeying His commands and living by them, however hard it may be in certain times. Those sitting idle to "receive the gift" live an empty life, unpleasant to the Lord.

As for the Bible, it is accurate in its teachings, but it was not written as a history book, thus, not every information in it has to be necesserly one hundred percent accurate, or literal. There are also many metaphores and translational errors, a great deal of study is necessery to understand it well.
Still, it is unique in a regard that it - unlike the other ancient texts - doesn't present its "protagonists" as flawless heroes descending from the sky, it very much shows us average human beings with many flaws and vices, being put in great times and before many challenges. The Old Testament is full of betrayal, dissent and rebellion against God.

You appear to want to debate the criteria of a Biblical World View. That isn't the purpose of this thread.

The point is, regardless of your own non-Biblical views, (which given the study isn't surprising!), only 1 out of 10 people in "Protestant" Churches and extremely few Catholics have a Biblical World View. However, about half of "Protestant" Pastors do. So, when you go to a church, that is what you should expect to find there.

Furthermore, it is appalling that the churches that grew out of The Protestant Reformation, should have become so debauched. However, it is not surprising that Catholics are. Of course, it is heartening to see that there are Catholics, no doubt born and raised, who have managed, by God's Grace, to achieve a Biblical World View.

[Hakluyt]

This Barna group is an "evangelical" Protestant organization and the results are skewed accordingly.

If people are curious why the Catholics score so low, it is in part because they put a question about the importance of works for salvation.

Here's a breakdown of an earlier poll this group did:

http://i35.tinypic.com/2wq5v6u.jpg

From this site:

http://www.adherents.com/misc/BarnaPoll.html
They score low in all respects. 'Must tell faith to others', 'Stan is real', and 'absolutely committed to Christianity' add up to a much bigger differential.

(I personally sympathise with the Catholics on all those questions, however).

[Hlinkova Garda]

Would you care to actually...erm, counter the arguement? It was not meant to be offensive, and I still don't have anything in particular against neither Catholics, nor Slavs, for that matter. There are also many Catholics in Hungary, I myself came over petty internal religious differences pretty much a long time ago.

This thread is about a "Biblical worldview", and you pretended that we Protestants "worship the Bible". I tried to clarify our position, without derailing the thread. If I still did so, my posts may be removed, but if not, I'd appriciate a coherent answer from my northern neighbour.
Preferably in an other style than in that certain topic last year.

Regards, HG.

oh yea now you play victum card you brought up BVM as a conter argument FIRST and as i stated before, dogma from the prots starts and ends with the bible if that is worship so be it ........dont slay the messanger YOU and you alonemade this a catholic vs. prot thing I am sorry but there will be no Maygarazation going unchecked on this thread. play the victum elswhere

[Hlinkova Garda]

So how about that Flawless Virgin Mary-thing, my good Catholic brother? ;)

...................THING??? you do not call this an insult and now you act all inocent .........but why am i not suprized You have been doing this for generations

We even have a saying for it "The hungaryian crys out in pain as he slaps you"

[Arrow Cross]

Fine. You are right, I am a vile aggressor who victimizes himself while making unforgivable(and unanswered) ques-...I mean, insults.

Let's leave the topic be for now, if you don't want to discuss, and let this thread be a testament to our...conversations.

Actually, if there's still one thing I tend to dislike about Slavs, then it'd would be their pretty short temper. :) Respect to the exceptions.









Hint: the man in my avatar, Szálasi, leader of the A.C. movement, was a devoted Catholic.

[Westminster]

What is this, the freaking U.N!? You should take your attempt to unite Hungary & Slovakia and Catholics & Protestants to Kofi Anon! :deadhorse:

As for me, I'm comfortable knowing that these groups hate each other and have no desire to change that. Although, if either of you finds the other beaten and starved by the side of the road, you should take care of him and when he's well, send his "stinking" butt back to his "filthy" country (whichever that may be). :drillsergeant:

[Hlinkova Garda]

What is this, the freaking U.N!? You should take your attempt to unite Hungary & Slovakia and Catholics & Protestants to Kofi Anon! :deadhorse:

As for me, I'm comfortable knowing that these groups hate each other and have no desire to change that. Although, if either of you finds the other beaten and starved by the side of the road, you should take care of him and when he's well, send his "stinking" butt back to his "filthy" country (whichever that may be). :drillsergeant:

I as always on this Forum did not derail a thread ArrowCross was on- HE throws the first blow and points to the Slav in the room

UNITE SLOAKIA & HUNGRY??? wE ALREADY HAVE TO MANY IN SLOVAKIA AS IT IS AND TRY HARD WE DO THEY JUST WONT LEAVE they have it to good they explote the generous christian nature of the slav

Oh And the only slavs on THIER land is land they stole

[Hlinkova Garda]

you see how they spread out seeping if you will Slovakia is half the size and yet here it is ............Do you know they want us to change the road signs to Maygar and to pay for thier Maygar schools





http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Dist_of_hu_lang_europe.png

[Westminster]

What is terrifying about this is that Christians are coming out of churches without a Biblical World View. However, they are coming out with a Worldly View. Therefore, Christianity is being subverted from the pulpit and from the pews. This could reduce The Real Church in The West, to an oppressed minority. Our Church is in need of revival and its' faithful are on the vanguard.

Well, we've got about 4 million Catholics that are faithful and probably about 65-100 million Christians. Furthermore, many Catholics seem open to revival. So, it would appear that there are plenty of us. After all, we're the only ones who have anything of worth to offer.

[Hlinkova Garda]

The trend with fiathfull Catholics these days is a return to the Mass of our forfathers and the teachings of a theocratical life. the Pope has had to make changes acordingly or risk loseing followers to break away sects .In every case these changes have been of a return to a more conservitive nature like that before VatII .......................... I have no idea if the winds of change are afecting the Prot world

[Westminster]

The trend with fiathfull Catholics these days is a return to the Mass of our forfathers and the teachings of a theocratical life. the Pope has had to make changes acordingly or risk loseing followers to break away sects .In every case these changes have been of a return to a more conservitive nature like that before VatII .......................... I have no idea if the winds of change are afecting the Prot world

They say Feminism has peaked and The Country is shifting to The Right. Multiculturalism, apparently, is finally being seen as a failure. Everyone hates Non-White and Non-Christian Immigration. One World? Forget it! Hopefully though, The West will stay intact.

Apparently, Mel Gibson's Father is a "Traditional" Catholic. So, it would seem that there is some positive influence there. Although, Gibson's characters and plots are generally disgusting. Still, The Passion was good and apparently he has made some fine statements in the back of police cars.

It would seem that Christians often fall into the temptation of putting their venerated ancestors or "teachers" way's of expressing themselves, ahead of what it was they were expressing themselves about, in the first place.

[Königin Luise von Preußen]

Poll: According to the first post, do you have a Biblical World View?

this poll is not well done. I find it very "Philistine-like"! ..just non-sense.. sorry..

[Westminster]

this poll is not well done. I find it very "Philistine-like"! ..just non-sense.. sorry..

Oh, well I noticed you answered yes.