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Fade the Butcher
02-19-2006, 11:29 AM
The President of Iran is Hitler. He must be stopped.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1581463/posts

by Patrick Buchanan

You can always tell when the War Party wants a new war. They will invariably trot out the Argumentum ad Hitlerum.

Before the 1991 Gulf War, Saddam had become "the Hitler of Arabia," though he had only conquered a sandbox half the size of Denmark. Milosevic then became the "Hitler of the Balkans," though he had lost Slovenia, Croatia and Macedonia, was struggling to hold Bosnia and Kosovo, and had defeated no one.

Comes now the new Hitler.

"This is 1935, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is as close to Adolf Hitler as we've seen," said Newt Gingrich to a startled editor at Human Events.

"We now know who they are -- the question is who are we. Are we Baldwin or Churchill?"

"In 1935 ... Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini intimidated the democracies," Newt plunged ahead. "The question is who is going to intimidate who." Yes, a little learning can be a dangerous thing.

A few facts. First, when Hitler violated the Versailles Treaty by announcing rearmament in March 1935, Baldwin was not in power. Second, Prime Minister Ramsay MacDonald quickly met with Il Duce to form the Stresa Front -- against Hitler. Third, when Mussolini invaded Abyssinia in October 1935, Baldwin imposed sanctions.

But Churchill did not wholly approve.

Abyssinia, said Churchill, is a "wild land of tyranny, slavery and tribal war. ... No one can keep up the pretense that Abyssinia is a fit, worthy and equal member of a league of civilized nations."

As late as 1938, Churchill was still proclaiming the greatness of Il Duce: "It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies."

But back to the new Hitler.

The Iranians, said Newt, "have been proactively at war with us since 1979." We must now prepare to invade and occupy Iran, and identify a "network of Iranians prepared to run their ... country" after we take the place over.

"I wake up every morning thinking we could lose two major cities today and have the equivalent of the second Holocaust by nuclear weapons -- this morning."

What about diplomacy?

"We should say to the Europeans that there is no diplomatic solution that is imaginable that is going to solve this problem." Newt's reasoning: War is inevitable -- the longer we wait, the graver the risk. Let's get it over with. Bismarck called this committing suicide out of fear of death.

My own sense of this astonishing interview is that Newt is trying to get to the right of John McCain on Iran and cast himself -- drum roll, please -- as the Churchill of our generation.

But are the comparisons of Ahmadinejad with Hitler and Iran with the Third Reich, let alone Newt with Churchill, instructive? Or are they ludicrous? Again, a few facts.

In 1942, Hitler's armies dominated Europe from the Pyrenees to the Urals. Ahmadinejad is the president of a nation whose air and naval forces would be toasted in hours by the United States. Iran has missiles that can hit Israel, but no nuclear warheads. Israel could put scores of atom bombs on Iran. The United States, without losing a plane, could make the country uninhabitable with one B-2 flyover and a few MX and Trident missiles.

Why would Ayatollah Khameinei, who has far more power than Ahmadinejad, permit him to ignite a war that could mean the end of their revolution and country? And if we were not intimidated by a USSR with thousands of nuclear warheads targeted on us, why should Ahmadinejad cause Newt to break out in cold sweats at night?

Currently, the "nuclear program" of Iran consists of trying to run uranium hexafluoride gas through a few centrifuges. There is no hard evidence Iran is within three years of producing enough highly enriched uranium for one bomb.

And if Iran has been at war with us since 1979, why has it done so much less damage than Khadafi, who blew up that discotheque in Berlin with our soldiers inside and massacred those American kids on Pan Am 103? Diplomacy worked with Khadafi. Why not try it with Iran?

Yet, Newt and the War Party appear to be pushing against an open door. A Fox News poll finds Iran has replaced North Korea as the nation Americans believe is our greatest immediate danger. And a Washington Post polls finds 56 percent of Americans backing military action to ensure Iran does not acquire a nuclear weapon.

Instead of whining about how they were misled into Iraq, why don't Democrats try to stop this new war before it starts? They can begin by introducing a resolution in Congress denying Bush authority to launch any preventive war on Iran, unless Congress first declares war on Iran.

Isn't that what the Constitution says?

Before we go to war, let's have a debate of whether we need to go to war.

il ragno
02-19-2006, 12:28 PM
Here in the only country on Earth ever to use nuclear weapons on civilians - twice - we fear imminent nuclear holocausts behind every thunderclap, and see "Hitler" in the folds of drapes every time we shut the light.

Heavens to Mergatroid, this superpower top-dog business is tricky! We won...won it all...got all the power and the riches and the glory, but how uneasy the crown sits upon our head these days. It like my main nigga straight outta Cawdor, Macbeth, say: "To be thus, is nothing. To be safely thus..."

Good also to see our elected officials succumbing without a struggle to what must by now be the irresistable temptation to manipulate the people, via fear, into either a proper mob or a docile herd.

Nordicist
02-19-2006, 01:02 PM
By far the biggest terror state in the Middle East is Israel and it has over 200 nuclear weapons. The bloody, mass-murdering Jewnited States is the only nation in the world to have used nuclear bombs on civilians not once but twice. Both the Zionist entity and the 'kwa don't want Iran to produce even one nuclear bomb...I suggest that that is not a valid reason why Iran shouldn't be able to continue with its nuclear programme.

Fade the Butcher
02-19-2006, 01:07 PM
The only positive thing that I can say in Dubya's favor on this one is that an invasion of Iran would be less laughable than Ronald Reagan's attempt to save the world from Grenada, the nutmeg capital of the world, back in 1983.

Ahknaton
02-19-2006, 01:10 PM
By far the biggest terror state in the Middle East is Israel and it has over 200 nuclear weapons. The bloody, mass-murdering Jewnited States is the only nation in the world to have used nuclear bombs on civilians not once but twice. Both the Zionist entity and the 'kwa don't want Iran to produce even one nuclear bomb...I suggest that that is not a valid reason why Iran shouldn't be able to continue with its nuclear programme.
The logical extension of that argument is that anyone who wants nuclear weapons should be allowed to have them, since America would be hypocritical to stop them, which is clearly insane.

The way I look at, the more countries have nuclear weapons the more likely it is that a nuclear armageddon will occur, and since my country has never possessed nuclear weapons I am morally justified in supporting whatever means necessary to stop any more countries from being admitted into the nuclear club. If achieving this objective means supporting countries such as the USA whose opposition to nuclear weapons aquisition by third world countries is arguably hyprocritical, then so be it. Why should I be obliged to live in a world where the security of my country is at risk because of the actions of the USA in WW2?

Now, I don't support an attack on Iran, since this will likely bring about a major conflict that has a not insignificant change of going nuclear and causing the armageddon scenario that it is intended to prevent, but I object to any notion that there are actual moral reasons why it is wrong to stop Iran from getting nukes. That just sounds like the kind of nonsense you hear from an anti-war leftist. We are morally justified in supporting any policy that is necessary to ensure our security (and, by extension, our survival), end of story.

Nordicist
02-19-2006, 01:18 PM
I will suggest the following: the best way to prevent a nuclear conflict in the Middle East is for Iran to have not one nuclear weapon but as many as Israel. Only then will Israel think twice about using its nuclear capacity in the Middle East. The reason why war didn't break out between the 'kwa and the Soviet Union is because the 'kwa knew that any attack on the Soviets was going to result in massive retaliation. Ditto for Pakistan and India, the reason why these two countries who hate each other haven't gone to war is because they both have nuclear weapons.

If you want peace in the Middle East let Iran develop its nuclear potential.

Felix the Cat
02-19-2006, 01:49 PM
Why is everyone so sure that Jews will be the primary targets of Iranian nukes?

It's vastly more likely that these bombs will be used against Arabs

Certainly, if Iran gets nukes the Saudis will demand them also - a fact which will alarm a lot of folks in Europe who would otherwise not care about this situation

zenero
02-19-2006, 01:59 PM
Why is everyone so sure that Jews will be the primary targets of Iranian nukes?Couple of reasons: The massacre of Palistinian muslims in Shabra and Shatila. The unconditional support of the 'kwa to PissRael. The fucking wars we are fighting for them. The ungoing genocides of goy's.

If there ever is another scenario, well hell. I wouldn't mind seeing Britain nuked. It's your country who's indeed responsible for multi-culturalism/-racialism. And have the highest proportions of race mixing.

It's vastly more likely that these bombs will be used against ArabsIt's racially approved that a vast majority of Iranians posseses Arabian blood. And it's very unlikely they would bomb nearby Arabian country's.

Felix the Cat
02-19-2006, 02:04 PM
Who has killed more Iranians in the last 30 years, Jews or Arabs?

Do you really think that if Iran had possessed nukes in the war with Iraq, that they would not have been used?

zenero
02-19-2006, 02:10 PM
Who has killed more Iranians in the last 30 years, Jews or Arabs?Arabs, i know. But you have in mind that the Iranians still have grudges towards the Arab's/Iraqi's/Sunni's.

Do you really think that if Iran had possessed nukes in the war with Iraq, that they would not have been used?I really think that, so yes. The Iran-Iraq War was multifaceted and included religious bullshit, border disputes, and political differences. Not because of Persian supremacy over the Arabs. A warhead on Baghdad would give Iran itself collateral damage.

Felix the Cat
02-19-2006, 02:31 PM
The main aim of Iranian foreign policy since the revolution has been to overthrow the House of Saud and establish Shi'ite rule over the Muslim shrines of Arabia

It was ostensibly to prevent this that the Iran-Iraq war was fought (Iraq had massive Saudi support during the war)

Getting the Jews out of Palestine is a minor objective by comparison, but Manny hypes this up in order to distract Arab attention from the fact that a nuke-armed Iran will de facto rule Arabia

The Saudis aren't stupid, and will demand nukes of their own

The Turkish and Italian governments will then probably be forced to go nuclear as well

WFHermans
03-05-2006, 08:42 PM
The main aim of Iranian foreign policy is to be left alone.

Felix the Cat
03-05-2006, 09:16 PM
Iranian pilgrims made a violent attempt to seize control of Mecca in 1987

The uprising was bloodily suppressed by the Saudi authorities, with hundreds of people killed

How will the Saudis respond if the Iranians make another such attempt, and this time Tehran possesses nukes capable of destroying Saudi oil production?

WFHermans
03-05-2006, 10:34 PM
I don't know. Probably they would do the same thing they did in 1987, which is nothing.

Felix the Cat
03-06-2006, 02:49 AM
The Iranians responded to the Mecca incident with military and terrorist attacks on Saudi oil production and shipping facilities

These attacks were unsuccessful because Iran in 1987 didn't have the missiles and nukes it is about to acquire now

WFHermans
03-06-2006, 03:34 PM
I never heard of any military attack by Iran against Saudi-Arabia.

Your search - "military attack by Iran against Saudi-Arabia" - did not match any documents.

Hakluyt
03-06-2006, 04:15 PM
That's because you apparently don't know how to use Google

http://www.google.com/search?hs=hZx&hl=en&lr=&client=opera&rls=en&q=iran+saudi+arabia+1987+attack&btnG=Search

http://www.photius.com/countries/saudi_arabia/national_security/saudi_arabia_national_security_naval_warfare_in_the~10919.html

The Iran-Iraq War of 1980-88 brought enormous cost in lives and material destruction. For a time, however, the war involved only the two belligerents and did not present a direct military threat to Saudi Arabia. The triumph of the radical Shia (see Glossary) movement in Iran and the Iranian Islamic Revolution under Ayatollah Sayyid Ruhollah Musavi Khomeini had raised alarm throughout the Arabian Peninsula, and the Persian Gulf states led by Saudi Arabia supported the Iraqi war effort with money and supplies. By 1986 the focus of the war had shifted to the waters of the gulf, where Iran's naval superiority enabled it to block shipping intended for Iraq and the export of Iraqi oil. Iran's naval attacks against tankers and its minelaying reached a peak in 1987. Forty attacks were mounted against shipping to and from Saudi Arabia, although oil movements were not seriously affected. The four minesweepers of the Saudi navy contributed to the international effort to locate and clear Iranian mines from the gulf. In cooperation with the United States, the fleet of five Saudi AWACS aircraft carried out surveillance of air traffic over the gulf. Two Iranian aircraft were shot down for violating Saudi air space. In October 1987, a fleet of missile-armed Iranian speedboats was observed moving toward As Saffaniyah, a major Saudi oil field, which had a processing complex at Ras al Khafji near the border with Kuwait. When Saudi ships and aircraft as well as ships of the United States Navy moved quickly to intercept the force, the Iranian ships turned away.

WFHermans
03-06-2006, 04:34 PM
Nothing about a military attack by Iran against Saudi-Arabia in the first long article I read.

http://countrystudies.us/saudi-arabia/58.htm

I won't waste my time reading more of your links.

Hakluyt
03-06-2006, 04:43 PM
That was the first result. Look a little deeper, like maybe the article I already linked to?

Fade the Butcher
03-06-2006, 04:50 PM
The President of Iran is the greatest leader in the world today.

WFHermans
03-06-2006, 04:55 PM
There were no military attacks by Iran against Saudi-Arabia. Something like "Iran wanted to attack, but when they saw the resolute ZOG-forces they fled" doesn't count. If you use that as evidence, then you could claim as well that the Soviet Union carried out military attacks against Europe in the 1980s.