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Petr
02-21-2006, 01:12 PM
From the same traditional Roman Catholic who wrote this:

"Opposing the Austrian Heresy"

http://thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4122&highlight=austrian

I might also add that such Reformation trailblazers as Martin Luther (who wrote "The Bondage of the Will" against humanist Erasmus) and John Calvin were not worshippers of unfettered Liberty with a big "L" either.


http://angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15631


Liberty: The God that Failed


In this adaptation from his upcoming book, Liberty: The God that Failed, Christopher A. Ferrara makes the “short case” for a modern reconstruction of Christendom as the only answer to the civilizational crisis—an idea that a growing number of political thinkers, not all of them Catholic, are seriously discussing.


Christopher A. Ferrara
REMNANT COLUMNIST, New Jersey

The Remnant Newspaper
August 15, 2005 Issue


The renowned Anglican covert to Catholicism, Henry Edward Cardinal Manning, once observed that “All human differences are ultimately religious ones.” This is a truth even secular reason is forced to recognize. As the Satan-worshiping anarchist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon admitted in his Confessions of a Revolutionary: “It is surprising to observe how constantly we find that all our political questions involve theological ones.” In reply, the renowned Catholic counter-revolutionary of the mid-nineteenth century, Don Juan Donoso Cortés, wrote: “There is nothing in this to cause surprise, except it be the surprise of Proudhon. Theology, being the science of God, is the ocean which contains all the sciences, as God is the ocean in which all things are contained.”

The history of Western civilization over the past 250 years is a chronicle of the decline of men and nations in consequence of a theological decision with profound political effects. That decision was the definitive refusal to conduct the art of politics according to the fundamental theological premise that an almighty and eternal God has revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ. What confronts us now is the prospect of life in a terminal civilization that has rejected the ancient dictum, in force throughout the West for more than a thousand years, that “Christianity is the law of the land.”[iii] We are the victims of what Christopher Dawson described as “the reversal of the spiritual revolution which gave birth to Western culture and a return to the psychological situation of the old pagan world…”[iv]

More particularly, the collapsing societies of the West groan under the consequences of what one liberal commentator has characterized as “a fundamental orientation toward politics chosen by early-modern Europeans in order to free themselves from the intellectual and spiritual influence of the Catholic Church…”[v] That is, the condition of contemporary Western civilization reflects the final destruction of the Catholic social order that endured in one form or another from Imperial Rome under the Emperor Constantine in the 4th century until the fall of the Imperial House of Hapsburg under the Emperor Charles I at the dawn of the 20th century.

By Catholic social order is meant a society with its organs of government, traditionally referred to collectively as the State[vi], which recognizes the Catholic Church at its summit and is responsive to her teaching. Such a State orders its laws and institutions (however imperfectly) to the Christian moral code and the final end of man as a creature of God, destined for either eternal beatitude or eternal punishment. This State may be monarchical, democratic or republican in its political constitution, and we have seen examples of all three forms of government (or mixtures thereof) within the dominant Western mode of Catholic social order. What was essential to this social order, known as Christendom, was the presence of an organic link between the Catholic Church and the State in virtue of which the Church was the conscience of the State. It is that link which was broken, and the result has aptly been likened to the decomposition of a human body from which the soul has departed.

One of the great triumphs of the new “fundamental orientation,” otherwise known as “classical liberalism,” is to have banished from the mind of contemporary Western man the memory that Christendom was the form and pattern of our civilization for most of its history. Classical liberalism is the system of thought which progressively divorces the art of politics from divine law and man’s final end in God, leaving the approach to God strictly to the individual members of civil society, artificially severed from its organs of government to allow for the fiction of the “private” believer. The liberal disjunction between civil society and the State, reducing the latter to merely value-neutral organs of government, was a radical break with the Western tradition that goes all the way back to Plato and Aristotle. Christendom, which combined the inspiration of supernatural grace with the natural truths of the Philosophers, was the historical fulfillment of man’s divine ordination to life in the State, producing nothing less than all of the greatest achievements of Western culture in an alliance (by no means without its own peculiar problems) between the Church and political authority.

[B]In place of a great civilization ordered to Christ, the forces of liberalism**—quite suddenly in historical terms, and by force of arms at each critical juncture—established a new order whose god is “Liberty.” We ought to call Liberty a god because, like any idol that man sets up for himself, its claims are deemed to supersede those of man’s Creator. Whereas Christ declared that His apostles were to “make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost” and teaching them “to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you,”[vii] the god of Liberty declared the age-old baptism of nations to be annulled and the Christian commonwealth to be abolished. Whereas Christ taught that political authority descends to man from God, even in the case of the procurator who unjustly sentenced Him to death, Liberty decreed that political authority ascends from the “sovereign will” of the people, so that even God’s law could be subjected to popular repeal. [/B]

Whereas Christ taught that His truth will make men free, Liberty insisted upon a previously unknown conception of freedom in society: the mere absence of constraint on human action by the State, save for that necessary to prevent violence and to protect the right to the ownership, use and enjoyment of private property in the pursuit of whatever thing each individual deems to constitute happiness. Without the conformity of human law to the law of the Gospel, the term violence inevitably contracted, while the terms property and happiness expanded in proportion to what unrestrained human weakness and popular consensus demanded. Hence today human life in utero may, at the option of its “owner,” be destroyed and disposed of as waste, or extracted and inventoried at the embryonic stage for sale as a consumer good. And not even the political opponents of these crimes against humanity are willing to oppose them on any ground but an appeal to the same sovereign popular will that put Liberty on its pedestal.

In sum, the god of Liberty has imposed upon Western civilization what Pope Leo XIII succinctly denounced as “that new conception of law which was not merely previously unknown, but was at variance on many points with not only the Christian, but even the natural law.”[viii] This new conception of law expressed itself in utterly revolutionary principles which contemporary man, abysmally ignorant of his own Christian heritage, now unquestioningly accepts as the received wisdom of the ages:

[I][T]hat all are equal in the control of their life; that each one is so far his own master as to be in no sense under the rule of any other individual; that each is free to think on every subject just as he may choose, and to do whatever he may like to do; that no man has any right to rule over other men….that the judgment of each one's conscience is independent of all law; that the most unrestrained opinions may be openly expressed as to the practice or omission of divine worship; and that every one has unbounded license to think whatever he chooses and to publish abroad whatever he thinks…

That these principles would destroy the foundations of our civilization was self-evident. Only forty years after Leo, Pope Pius XI observed that “With God and Jesus Christ, excluded from political life, with authority derived not from God but from man, the very basis of that authority has been taken away, because the chief reason of the distinction between ruler and subject has been eliminated. The result is that human society is tottering to its fall, because it has no longer a secure and solid foundation.”[x] But perhaps not even Leo and Pius could have imagined the full extent of the civilizational debacle Liberty has wrought: not only the abortion holocaust, but an epidemic of divorce, the universal practice of contraception, the depopulation of Western nations, the relentless advance of homosexualism, the destruction of the family, the spread of orgiastic consumerism, the debasement of art, music and architecture, and finally the emergence of a veritable neo-pagan social order in which Christians increasingly face persecution for mere utterances against the orthodoxy of “liberty.”

In place of the Christian commonwealth, Liberty has erected a market-driven “culture of rights,” founded on the fiction of the isolated individual in a mythical pre-social, pre-religious state of nature, who is said to possess “rights” abstracted from any divine ordination to life in the State or any collective social duty to God. These “rights” are merely elaborate explications of Liberty’s one commandment: thou shalt not interfere in human action. Denying any ordination of the State to an objective common good conformable to Christ and eternal beatitude, the culture of rights has led to a tyranny of public opinion, enforced by despotic popular regimes which crush any attempt to secure true freedom through restoration of the Christian moral order, with its divinely ordained limits on human action and its positive duties in justice and charity toward one’s fellow man.

Under such conditions the pursuit of any common good in the State is impossible, and society becomes a mere arena for the pursuit of what each individual deems his proper good, without regard for the total impact of these individual pursuits on life in society as a whole. Thus Christians are forced to live in a global, free-market Gomorrah in which a trip to the supermarket invites an attack upon the innocence of their children, which is assaulted on every side. The culture of rights has produced a culture of death—physical, moral and spiritual—that oppresses not only the Christian life, but truth, beauty and goodness themselves.

The libertarian acolytes of Liberty argue that it is not Liberty but the State that oppresses us. Rejecting the entire Western tradition, they declare that life in the State is not natural to man. The State, they maintain, arises from the unnatural imposition of organs of government upon a naturally free civil society by an age-old conspiracy of nefarious ruling elites, who have somehow managed to persuade generation after generation, in virtually every place on earth, that government is necessary. If only the unnecessary organs of government—kings, parliaments, presidents, congresses, governors, public magistrates, and so forth—can be eliminated, the “monopoly of force” by which the elites have for so long oppressed the Western masses will be ended, and civil society will triumph in the freedom and prosperity of the “spontaneous order” that arises from voluntary human cooperation. The State will wither away, just as it does in the dreams of Marxists. It will be the Second Coming of Liberty, whose first coming in 1776 ended with Liberty’s crucifixion by the Federalists, who gave the world yet another State.

Mass democracy, the libertarians concede, is a god that failed, just as communism failed.[xi] Democracy failed not because of Liberty (so the argument goes) but because the State’s “monopoly of force” enabled one group to oppress another through taxation, regulation and the threat of force in violation of the “free-market principle” of untrammeled interpersonal exchange. The libertarians conveniently overlook the indispensable role of the “free” market itself in fostering democratic tyranny by destroying social adherence to the objective moral order–a role de-ethicized secular governments are only too happy to facilitate with judicial decisions that bar any substantial legal limitation on the market’s promotion of vice and corruption. Christians are pressed between what Wilhelm Röpke called the “bloated colossus of the State” and the “cult of the colossal” in the marketplace. Even the Protestant Röpke, one of the foremost free-market defenders of the 20th century, was constrained to issue the warning that market competition “must not be allowed to predominate and sway society in all its spheres, or it will poison men’s souls [and] destroy civilization…”[xii] In Catholic social order it was not possible for the market to have this effect, for both the law of the Gospel and civil law protected public morality. In liberal social order, however, that effect was inevitable.

The libertarians do not see, or will not acknowledge, that the god of Liberty reigns equally over secular government and free market, constantly maintaining a symbiotic adjustment between these two basic elements of de-ethicized liberal social order. The de-ethicized government exacts from the de-ethicized market a tribute of taxation and regulation which merely dampens a still immense and growing material prosperity, and in return the market receives from government legal protection against the moral claims of Christianity, so that profit may abound from the sale of anything and everything for which entrepreneurs can create a demand, including embryonic human beings. Röpke, who was no advocate of Catholic social order, observed this symbiosis in his own renowned critique of economic liberalism: “[T]he economic liberalism of the last two centuries has disastrously gone astray in a manner fully paralleling the mistakes of political liberalism and ultimately stemming from the same source.” [xiii]

The dreamers of the libertarian dream fail to perceive that it is not the State as such, which will exist as long as there is human society, but rather the theology of the State that has led to tyranny. The worst of the “absolute” monarchs of Christendom was a model of limited government compared with the presidents and prime ministers of modern secular regimes who owe no allegiance to Rome. Even a leading libertarian scholar has acknowledged, apparently without recognizing the significance of his admission, that “the historic transition from monarchy to democracy represents not progress but civilizational decline.”[xiv] The monarchies in question were Catholic states embodying Catholic social order—the very order overthrown in the name of Liberty.

The liberal political philosopher Pierre Manent candidly observed that “the distinction between civil society and the state, and their union through the idea of representation [i.e. democracy], sets off a natural oscillation between two extreme possibilities: the ‘withering away’ of the state on the one hand, and the absorption of civil society by the state on the other. It is a distinction that calls out for negation, a negation that can benefit only one of the two terms.”[xv] Yet both terms have been supplied by liberal political philosophy in service of its great project: “the radical discrediting of the Church’s political claims…”[xvi] Hence both terms are in line with liberalism’s fundamental movement away from the Church’s vision of Christocentric social order, which alone can preserve the State from the oscillation between absolutism and anarchy.

As “statist” and libertarian devotees of liberty debate the future of their idol, we live amidst the ruins of the Christocentric civilization Liberty has leveled to the ground. Narcotized by the material comforts an endlessly inventive marketplace provides, Christians in general and Catholics in particular (with a few noble historical exceptions) have offered little resistance to Liberty’s inexorable demolition of nearly everything that was good and holy in the commonweal. Today there is only the occasional verbal protest from among the few “fundamentalists” who actually understand what we have lost. But even the fundamentalists have been effectively converted by the new order. As the proto-libertarian Benjamin Constant observed with smug certitude concerning the Catholic reactionaries of post-revolutionary France: “in declaring themselves champions of earlier centuries… [they] are, in spite of themselves, men of our century [who] have neither the strength of their convictions nor the hope that ensures success.”[xvii]

Liberty makes certain we remain deprived of the hope that ensures success by convincing us that the overthrow of Catholic social order was inevitable and is now quite irreversible: There will be faction and violence if any effort is made to topple me, Liberty warns us. For only Liberty can control the chaos that Liberty has unleashed. Our entire civilization has fallen prey to an ideological protection racket. But we are not protected. In fear of violence we pay tribute to violence. Each year abortion alone claims more victims for Liberty than all of the major wars in world history combined. And now ultimate violence approaches.

It is not as if our deliverance from this predicament were inconceivable. Another triumph of the new orientation is that it has blinded us to the political significance of the spiritual reality that, even today, the great preponderance of the population of the Western world consists of baptized Christians, with the overwhelming Western popular majority[xviii] remaining at least nominally Catholic. If this majority were to be aroused from its silent apostasy by the leaders of a Catholic Church returned to militancy, the world would certainly change again. As Dawson observed of our situation: “However secularized our modern civilization may have become, this sacred tradition remains like a river in the desert, and a genuine religious education can still use it to irrigate the thirsty lands and to change the face of the world with the promise of new life.”[xix] The leaders of the new order themselves, who erupt in nearly hysterical outrage at any sign of effective Catholic opposition to secular orthodoxy, evince an acute awareness of the immense spiritual power that lies dormant under the desert they have created. They know how easily an awakened fraternity of the baptized could topple the god of Liberty.

And topple Liberty we must, in the name of true freedom—the freedom that comes from the idea that we are the children of a loving God, who bestows upon us both temporal blessings and eternal happiness, if only men and nations will follow His counsels. But beyond a simple plea for a return to faith, Catholics must be prepared to argue that reason itself suffices to demonstrate that only a reconstruction of Christendom, or something approaching it as an interim step in the revival of the West, can avert the coming catastrophe, and that otherwise we are at the end of history. As the currently reigning Pope remarked when he was Cardinal Ratzinger: “[N]o society will long survive if in its public structure it is built agnostically and materialistically and wishes to permit anything else to exist only below the threshold of the public.”[xx] The Anglican scholar John Milbank, who represents the growing intellectual trend toward a radically Christian critique of secular social order, has expressed this conviction in a startling way: “Only a global liturgical polity can save us now from literal violence.”[xxi]

What of the objection that we are advocating the “impossibility” of a reconversion of the Western world to Roman Catholicism? I reply that this “impossibility” ought really to be seen as nothing less than the only reasonable course of action to save a dying civilization, which, after all, is still predominantly composed of baptized Catholics. At this point in the civilizational debacle, anyone who calls himself a Christian should at least be willing to make an effort to examine our situation from the traditional Catholic perspective, standing outside the framework of liberal premises whose adoption was no less an act of the will than the common faith that sustained Christendom for century upon century. As Milbank has observed, the governing assumptions of secular social theory “are bound up with the modification or the rejection of orthodox Christian positions. These fundamental intellectual shifts are… no more rationally ‘justifiable’ than the Christian positions themselves.”[xxii]

Let us argue, then, on the ground of reason in the hope that, for the skeptical, faith will follow. Even in the absence of faith, however, reason alone ought to impel the thoughtful man to rise up against Liberty, the failed god whose reign has brutalized and degraded us all in one way or another.



[B]Notes [/B]

[i] Cited in Wilhelm Röpke, [I]A Humane Economy (South Bend:Gateway Editions), 1958), pp. 4, 75.

Don Juan Donoso Cortes, [I]Essay on Catholicism, Authority and Order, (New York: Joseph F. Wagner, 1925), p. 1.

Christopher Dawson, [I]Understanding Europe (New York: Sheed and Ward, 1952), p. 18.

[I]Ibid, p. 14.

[v] Pierre Manent, An Intellectual History of Liberalism (Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1995), p. viii (preface by Jerrold Siegel).

[vi] I use the term “State” in the classical sense of the Aristotelian-Thomistic tradition, which recognizes the indispensable organic relation between civil society and government. In libertarian thought, on the other hand, “State” means merely the organs of government, especially in the nations of the post-Christian West, whose varying absolutism is actually a departure from Catholic teaching on the nature of the just State.

[vii] Matthew 28: 19-20.

[viii] Immortale Dei, n. 23.

[I]Ibid., n. 24.

[x] Quas Primas (1925).

[xi]Cfr. Hans-Hermann Hoppe, [I]Democracy: The God That Failed (New Brunswick: Transaction Publishers, 2004). The author rejects both democracy and monarchy, advocating instead a never-before-seen society governed by private contractual agencies, thus correcting classical liberalism’s “error” in accepting the concept of public authority—i.e., government. Ibid., p. 229.

[xii] Wilhelm Röpke, A Humane Economy, (South Bend: Gateway Editions, 1958), p. 128.

[xiii] Wilhem Röpke, The Social Crisis of Our Time (New Brunswick: Transacation Publishers, orig. pub. 1942), p. 48.

[xiv]Ibid., p. 69.

[xv]Manent, op. cit., p. 27.

[xvi]Ibid, p. 12.

[xvii]Cited in Manent, p. 91.

[xviii]I employ here and throughout the classical definition of the Western world: Western Europe and all the territory settled by Catholic Europeans in North America, Latin America (the countries of the Western hemisphere south of the United States) and Oceania, and the Eurocentric Christian culture and laws resulting from the vast Catholic expansion of the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries.

[xix]Dawson, Understanding Europe, p. 255.

[xx] Cited in Thomas Storck, “John Locke, Liberal Totalitarianism, and the Trivialization of Religion,” Faith and Reason, Vol. 26, No. 3 (Autumn 2001).

[xxi]John Milbank, “The Gift of Ruling: Secularization and Political Authority” (Dominican Council/Blackwell Publishing, Ltd., 2004) (reprinted essay), p. 238. Millbank and others of the school of “Radical Orthodoxy” fail to appreciate that the answer they seek to the civilizational crisis is contained entirely within the traditional social doctrine of the Catholic Church, which needs only to be reasserted by the Church’s teaching authority. The Church has not “failed,” as Millbank suggests. Rather, her human element has failed to defend what even Vatican II called the “traditional Catholic doctrine on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ,” thus allowing the impression to arise that the Magisterium has reversed itself, which is impossible.

[xxii]John Milbank, Theology and Social History: Beyond Secular Reason (Oxford: Blackwell, 1993), p. 1.

SteamshipTime
02-21-2006, 01:47 PM
The dreamers of the libertarian dream fail to perceive that it is not the State as such, which will exist as long as there is human society, but rather the theology of the State that has led to tyranny. The worst of the “absolute” monarchs of Christendom was a model of limited government compared with the presidents and prime ministers of modern secular regimes who owe no allegiance to Rome. Even a leading libertarian scholar has acknowledged, apparently without recognizing the significance of his admission, that “the historic transition from monarchy to democracy represents not progress but civilizational decline.”[xiv] The monarchies in question were Catholic states embodying Catholic social order—the very order overthrown in the name of Liberty.

Thoughtful article. What's unasked by Ferrara is what is to be the limiting factor for government. How far can the "Catholic social order" go in its economic decrees? In addition to banning pornography, can it also purport to set "moral" prices and wages? Can it compel welfare transfer payments?

I suppose the answer is that the government is subject to the same moral law as the people. Thus, insofar as the government is an instrument of theft, the government is immoral and should be opposed. The next question is what constitutes theft.

While I agree completely with Hoppe's conclusions about democracy, his book is a collection of poorly sourced essays thrown together with a concluding chapter that breezily describes what an anarchist society would supposedly be like. Suffice it to say, I don't think any of the anarchists have any experience in the insurance industry.

I must say that the past few months have really got me thinking about classical liberalism.

ironweed
02-21-2006, 01:56 PM
Its almost a pity Lenny isn't around to be sent off into paroxsyms of some sort over this article. (He wasn't banned, was he?)

By Catholic social order is meant a society with its organs of government, traditionally referred to collectively as the State[vi], which recognizes the Catholic Church at its summit and is responsive to her teaching. Such a State orders its laws and institutions (however imperfectly) to the Christian moral code and the final end of man as a creature of God, destined for either eternal beatitude or eternal punishment. This State may be monarchical, democratic or republican in its political constitution, and we have seen examples of all three forms of government (or mixtures thereof) within the dominant Western mode of Catholic social order.

I dispute that we've ever empirically seen the fantasy the author of this is spouting, or that we ever will. You'll notice he's not pointing to anything specific, as to either a country or a historical period. And why stop at half measures? Why isn't he demanding the return of the Papal States? :rolleyes:

@Petr: Does the author of this identify himself as a Sedevacantist anywhere you've seen? I must admit that that is one group for which I hold nothing but contempt, and this piece is just about wacky enough to have been written by one.

Kodos
02-21-2006, 02:06 PM
I more a fan of the secular Protestant monarchies...

Fade the Butcher
02-21-2006, 02:06 PM
We are the victims of what Christopher Dawson described as “the reversal of the spiritual revolution which gave birth to Western culture and a return to the psychological situation of the old pagan world…”[iv]

The pagans could make a powerful counterargument to this: it was precisely the rejection of teleology, a fundamental component of Aristotlean rationality and other Greek philosophical systems, that occasioned modern nihilism. This rejection of teleology, in turn, was inspired by Christianity.

Petr
02-21-2006, 02:17 PM
The pagans could make a powerful counterargument to this: it was precisely the rejection of teleology, a fundamental component of Aristotlean rationality and other Greek philosophical systems, that occasioned modern nihilism.
Modern nihilism was introduced by Sophists already many decades before the time of Aristotle (and also by cosmopolitan Cynics).


One "New Right" thinker (Dominique Venner) seems to have presented a thesis that I actually argued for on the old Phora Forum - that the secularization of the West did not actually begin with nominalism or Reformation, but rather with Thomas Aquinas' Aristotelianism and his separation of grace and nature.

(Before that, Europe had relied on Augustinian doctrine where the illumination of Holy Spirit on men's minds was necessary for the emergence of any truth, not leaving room for secularism)


"Venner traces nihilism's roots to the advent of Spengler's “Faustian civilization,” which began innocently enough when Saint Thomas introduced Aristotelian logic to Christian theology, privileging thereby the forces of rationality. Because Christianity held that there was a single truth and a single spiritual authority (the Church), reason in this Thomist makeover was made the principal means of accessing the divine. But once the Christian God became dependent on reason, He risked eventually being repudiated by it. This came with Descartes, the founder of modern philosophy, who turned reason into a purely instrumental and calculative faculty. In the form of science, technology, and industry, Cartesian rationalism reduced everything to a mechanical causality, associating reason with the progressive mastery of nature, a belief in progress (soon to supplant the belief in Providence), and, ultimately, the rule of money.

"Venner claims a desiccated mathematicized reason, no matter how technologically potent, is no substitute for transcendent references, for a disenchanted world governed by its principles is a world devoid of meaning and purpose.

http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol4no2/mm-venner.html


Of course, Venner's idea would mean that it was ultimately Greek philosophy (Aristotelianism) and not Christianity that is responsible for that "de-sacralization of the world" that "New Right" thinkers bemoan. Makes sense to me - Plato already tried to counter the modernism of Sophists with his totalitarian traditionalism.


(More on this subject in here)

http://classics.dal.ca/AquinasattheOriginsofSecularHumanismendnotes.htm

"In 1968, the influential American neo-Calvinist theologian and cultural historian, Francis Schaeffer, published a small book, Escape from Reason. The origin of this disastrous modern “escape” is located by him in the division between nature and grace made by Thomas Aquinas, and in his placing of grace above nature. By this account, Thomas draws a horizontal line and places grace above it and nature below. This hierarchical division is what Schaeffer calls “the real birth of the humanistic Renaissance,” and of the autonomy of the human intellect. The reader is told that: “from the basis of this autonomous principle, philosophy also became free, and was separated from revelation.” Establishing the reality and goodness of the natural was a good thing, but by doing it as he did, “Aquinas had opened the way to an autonomous Humanism, an autonomous philosophy, and once the movement gained momentum, there was soon a flood.”[2] This was a bad thing. Schaeffer declares that “Any autonomy is wrong” in respect to Christ and the Scriptures.[3] Humans, created in the image of God to whom all belongs, demand by nature a rational whole. Once the division Aquinas made was made, step by step the autonomous rational ate up what is above the line rendering it either empty or irrational. The final result is what Schaefer calls the Line of Despair and he tries to show, by way of a dialectical summersault, how travelling down that line we arrive at the loss of confidence in reason: the escape from reason."



Petr

Fade the Butcher
02-21-2006, 02:18 PM
Whereas Christ taught that His truth will make men free, Liberty insisted upon a previously unknown conception of freedom in society: the mere absence of constraint on human action by the State, save for that necessary to prevent violence and to protect the right to the ownership, use and enjoyment of private property in the pursuit of whatever thing each individual deems to constitute happiness.

The roots of liberalism can be traced back to the Cynics and Epicureans.

Petr
02-21-2006, 02:36 PM
The roots of liberalism can be traced back to the Cynics and Epicureans.
Actually some people have speculated that it has even older roots:


"It is true that (Samuel) Johnson was inflamed by passion; but it was a passion not for a party, but for order in Church and State and Society. The first Whig was the Devil who had upset the order of Heaven, and Whig talk about Liberty in the abstract infuriated him, especially when it championed a man of the character of Wilkes."

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/rbrtssc/johnson/chap4.htm


"Rules for Radicals opens with a quote about Lucifer, written by Saul Alinsky: "Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins -- or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom -- Lucifer.""

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/Alinsky-SaulRef.html


'The Beast 666'
Illustrious Aleister Crowley 33°
Hymn to Lucifer

Ware, nor of good nor ill, what aim hath act?
Without its climax, death, what savour hath
Life? an impeccable machine, exact
He paces an inane and pointless path
To glut brute appetites, his sole content
How tedious were he fit to comprehend
Himself! More, this our noble element
Of fire in nature, love in spirit, unkenned
Life hath no spring, no axle, and no end.

His body a blood-ruby radiant
With noble passion, sun-souled Lucifer
Swept through the dawn colossal, swift aslant
On Eden's imbecile perimeter.
He blessed nonentity with every curse
And spiced with sorrow the dull soul of sense,
Breath life into the sterile universe,
With Love and Knowledge drove out innocence
The Key of Joy is disobedience.

http://freemasonrywatch.org/luciferquotes.html


Petr

Fade the Butcher
02-21-2006, 02:41 PM
Modern nihilism was introduced by Sophists already many decades before the time of Aristotle (and also by cosmopolitan Cynics).

You missed the key term: modern nihilism.

One "New Right" thinker (Dominique Venner) seems to have presented a thesis that I actually argued for on the old Phora Forum - that the secularization of the West did not actually begin with nominalism or Reformation, but rather with Thomas Aquinas' Aristotelianism and his separation of grace and nature.

It would be a mistake to conflate nihilism with secularism, as secularism has nothing to do with nihilism. The nihilists deny that anything has any essential nature or purpose because they take radical human creativity as their presupposition. Nihilism is anti-Aristotlean to the core. This idea of unbounded creativity comes from Christianity, specifically, the notion that the Christian God is an awesome creator who spoke the universe into existence.

Aristotle took for granted that the universe was eternal. This isn't to say that modern nihilism is Christian. It's not. It just has a Christian origin. It's a Christian heresy like humanism: the notion that man is God and there are no limits upon man's creativity because man is prior to, not of, nature.

(Before that, Europe had relied on Augustinian doctrine where the illumination of Holy Spirit on men's minds was necessary for the emergence of any truth, not leaving room for secularism)

This sounds an awfully lot like Platonic epistemology to me. I would like to see wintermute chime in here.

Venner traces nihilism's roots to the advent of Spengler's “Faustian civilization,” which began innocently enough when Saint Thomas introduced Aristotelian logic to Christian theology, privileging thereby the forces of rationality.

This makes no sense. Nihilism is a form of irrationality. Nihilism and anti-Arisotleanism are synonymous.

Aristotle: We can know.
Nihilist: We can't know.
Aristotle: Everything has a nature.
Nihilist: Everything does not have a nature.
Aristotle: Life has a purpose.
Nihilist: Life does not have a purpose.
Aristotle: Man lives in accordance with nature.
Nihilist: Nature exists in accordance with man.

Because Christianity held that there was a single truth and a single spiritual authority (the Church), reason in this Thomist makeover was made the principal means of accessing the divine.

Aquinas was a great philosopher.

But once the Christian God became dependent on reason, He risked eventually being repudiated by it.

It wasn't reason that torpedoed Christianity. It was the doctrine of radical creation implicit in Christianity which sunk reason along with Christianity.

SteamshipTime
02-21-2006, 02:43 PM
I more a fan of the secular Protestant monarchies...

"secular" and "monarchy" are antithetical. There is really no way for a hereditary monarch to rule other than by Divine right. If it's not by blood, then you're just going to have a Chief Executive by either popular or representative vote, which is basically what we have now.

Petr
02-21-2006, 02:48 PM
This idea of unbounded creativity comes from Christianity, specifically, the notion that the Christian God is an awesome creator who spoke the universe into existence.
This doctrine could indeed be very destructive should it fall into wrong (read: humanistic) hands, but thank God, the categorical difference between God and man is another fundamental Christian doctrine. What is befitting to God is not befitting for a man. Problems arise when pagans think they can play gods.

Christianity is the religion of straight and narrow way, which is situated between two extremes, and few are those who can maintain their balance while walking on that tightrope.


It wasn't reason that torpedoed Christianity. It was the doctrine of radical creation implicit in Christianity which sunk reason along with Christianity.
Why are you speaking about Christianity in the past tense? Our mainstream churches might be reeling right now (at least on certain areas), but we are the religion of resurrection and "we'll be back".


Petr

Fade the Butcher
02-21-2006, 02:51 PM
In place of the Christian commonwealth, Liberty has erected a market-driven “culture of rights,” founded on the fiction of the isolated individual in a mythical pre-social, pre-religious state of nature, who is said to possess “rights” abstracted from any divine ordination to life in the State or any collective social duty to God. These “rights” are merely elaborate explications of Liberty’s one commandment: thou shalt not interfere in human action. . . . Under such conditions the pursuit of any common good in the State is impossible, and society becomes a mere arena for the pursuit of what each individual deems his proper good, without regard for the total impact of these individual pursuits on life in society as a whole.

^^ This is a textbook communitarian critique of liberalism.

Fade the Butcher
02-21-2006, 02:56 PM
This doctrine could indeed be very destructive should it fall into wrong (read: humanistic) hands, but thank God, the categorical difference between God and man is another fundamental Christian doctrine. What is befitting to God is not befitting for a man. Problems arise when pagans think they can play gods.

I agree. You shouldn't confuse pagans with Christian heretics, though. As I said before, nihilism is anti-Aristotleanism. They are the same thing.

Christianity is the religion of straight and narrow way, which is tightly balanced between two extremes, and few are those who can maintain their balance while walking on it.

Ah. The golden mean. :)

Why are you speaking about Christianity in the past tense? Our mainstream churches might be reeling right now (at least on certain areas), but we are the religion of resurrection and "we'll be back".

Rationality and Christianity alike are reeling back from the doctrine of radical human creativity, to use your terminology.

Kodos
02-21-2006, 03:02 PM
"secular" and "monarchy" are antithetical. There is really no way for a hereditary monarch to rule other than by Divine right.

I agree but the theocratic aspect should be shuffled to the backround...

Petr
02-21-2006, 03:05 PM
I agree. You shouldn't confuse pagans with Christian heretics, though.
I am not confusing anything. Deifying the ruler is as pagan as one can get. From the Pharaoh of Egypt to Chairman Mao, we have seen human beings with supposed capacities to alter reality with their sheer willpower or knowledge of divine secrets. Anti-Christian occultists of past and present are very keen into this idea, the "Dr. Faustus" syndrome, Luciferian defiance.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

Invictus by William Ernest Henley


Ah. The golden mean. :)
Yes, that would be a one way to describe the ideal. Yet I prefer Jesus' description rather than Aristotle's fallible ideas.


Petr

Kodos
02-21-2006, 03:11 PM
I am not confusing anything. Deifying the ruler is as pagan as one can get

If you judge by Roman history the emperor became more distant and god like after adopting christianity...

Petr
02-21-2006, 03:16 PM
If you judge by Roman history the emperor became more distant and god like after adopting christianity...
That process had already started before the ascension of Constantine (one Swedish historian wrote that by the time of Diocletian, the emperor had turned into a pharaoh, Roman Empire into a one giant Egypt), and in any case, Rome isn't the whole world.


Petr

Kodos
02-21-2006, 03:25 PM
That process had already started before the ascension of Constantine (one Swedish historian wrote that by the time of Diocletian, the emperor had turned into a pharaoh, Roman Empire into a one giant Egypt), and in any case, Rome isn't the whole world.


Petr

Interesting that the one Emperor who tried to reverse the trend was Julian( well Valentinian I did to some degree, if only because he liked to look people in the eye when he ordered them burned alive).

Petr
02-21-2006, 03:31 PM
In the late 4th century, bishop Ambrose defied the emperor Theodosius the Great in the manner that would have been unthinkable in pagan Rome.


St. Ambrose Humiliates Theodosius the Great

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/theodoret-ambrose1.html

"The ruler by the grace of God" is still a long way from "ruler AS god".


Petr

Kodos
02-21-2006, 03:45 PM
In the late 4th century, bishop Ambrose defied the emperor Theodosius the Great in the manner that would have been unthinkable in pagan Rome.

Because Theodosius was a real fanatic who worshipped the clergy in a childlike way, most Orthodox bishops related to the Byzantine emperors( Theodosius was the last Emperor of united Rome) with the same deference the Flamens would show to the pagan Pontifex( if they knew what was good for them).

In the West with the catholic church this wasn't true...

Petr
02-22-2006, 12:05 AM
most Orthodox bishops related to the Byzantine emperors( Theodosius was the last Emperor of united Rome) with the same deference the Flamens would show to the pagan Pontifex( if they knew what was good for them).
Once again you seem to be thinking via stereotypes.


"Most modern historians recognize that the legal Byzantine texts speak of interdependence between the imperial and ecclesiastical structures rather than of a unilateral dependence of the latter; historians believe also that there was nothing in the Byzantine understanding of the Christian faith that would recognize the emperor as either doctrinally infallible or invested with priestly powers. Many historical instances of direct imperial pressure on the church ended in failure . . . John Chrysostom and most other authoritative Byzantine theologians denied imperial power over the church.

...

Caesaropapism was more a reality in Russia, where the abuses of Ivan IV the Terrible went practically unopposed and where Peter the Great finally transformed the church into a department of the state (1721), although neither claimed to possess special doctrinal authority . . ."

http://faculty.cua.edu/Pennington/ChurchHistory220/LectureTwo/caesaropapism.htm


Petr

Niko Bellic
02-22-2006, 12:45 AM
In place of the Christian commonwealth, Liberty has erected a market-driven “culture of rights,” founded on the fiction of the isolated individual in a mythical pre-social, pre-religious state of nature, who is said to possess “rights” abstracted from any divine ordination to life in the State or any collective social duty to God.


Wrong...


When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident:

That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Fade the Butcher
02-22-2006, 12:46 AM
I am not confusing anything. Deifying the ruler is as pagan as one can get. From the Pharaoh of Egypt to Chairman Mao, we have seen human beings with supposed capacities to alter reality with their sheer willpower or knowledge of divine secrets. Anti-Christian occultists of past and present are very keen into this idea, the "Dr. Faustus" syndrome, Luciferian defiance.

That's not the problem. The problem is the deification of man, that is, the belief that man is God and there are no limits upon his creative powers. This is not a pagan idea. This sort of radical creationism stems from Christianity.

Petr
02-22-2006, 01:12 AM
The problem is the deification of man, that is, the belief that man is God and there are no limits upon his creative powers. This is not a pagan idea.
But it is. Hindu Brahmins taught that the sun could not arise and universe would not remain intact were it not for the power of their daily magical incantations.

(I seem to recall that Aztec priests had similar doctrines)


"The Abbe Dubois quotes the following Aryan Hindu verse :

"Devadhinam jagat sarvarm Mantradhinam ta devata Tam Mantram Brahmandhinam Brahmana nam devata"

Meaning:

The Universe is under the power of gods, The gods are under the power of the mantras, The mantras are under the power of the Brahmins, Therefore the Brahmins are our gods.

Abbe J.A. Dubois's "Hindu Manners, Customs and Ceremonies",
Oxford, Third Edition 1906, Page 139. See also page 93.

http://www.dalitstan.org/books/awake/awake2.html


An excerpt from the "Law of Manu":

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/india/manu-full.html


93. As the Brahmana sprang from (Brahman's) mouth, as he was the first-born, and as he possesses the Veda, he is by right the lord of this whole creation.

94. For the Self-existent (Svayambhu), having performed austerities, produced him first from his own mouth, in order that the offerings might be conveyed to the gods and manes and that this universe might be preserved.

95. What created being can surpass him, through whose mouth the gods continually consume the sacrificial viands and the manes the offerings to the dead?

96. Of created beings the most excellent are said to be those which are animated; of the animated, those which subsist by intelligence; of the intelligent, mankind; and of men, the Brahmanas;

97. Of Brahmanas, those learned (in the Veda); of the learned, those who recognise (the necessity and the manner of performing the prescribed duties); of those who possess this knowledge, those who perform them; of the performers, those who know the Brahman.

98. The very birth of a Brahmana is an eternal incarnation of the sacred law; for he is born to (fulfil) the sacred law, and becomes one with Brahman.

99. A Brahmana, coming into existence, is born as the highest on earth, the lord of all created beings, for the protection of the treasury of the law.

100. Whatever exists in the world is, the property of the Brahmana; on account of the excellence of his origin The Brahmana is, indeed, entitled to all.

101. The Brahmana eats but his own food, wears but his own apparel, bestows but his own in alms; other mortals subsist through the benevolence of the Brahmana.


Hermeticism is filled with this magus-as-god theme.


Petr

Fade the Butcher
02-22-2006, 02:27 AM
But it is. Hindu Brahmins taught that the sun could not arise and universe would not remain intact were it not for the power of their daily magical incantations. (I seem to recall that Aztec priests had similar doctrines)

Hinduism has nothing to do with modern nihilism in the West. Neither do the Aztecs for that matter. We can trace the origins of modern nihilism back to the rejection of Aristotlean teleology in the aftermath of the Scientific Revolution during the Early Modern Era. The disease was already full blown by the time of Hume. Nihilism arises when Christians equivocate human beings with their radically creative God and draw the conclusion that nothing has any real nature and as a consequence we can't know anything.

Boleslaw
10-11-2006, 02:54 AM
As the Satan-worshiping anarchist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon admitted in his Confessions of a Revolutionary: “It is surprising to observe how constantly we find that all our political questions involve theological ones.”

Proudhon a Satanist???? :confused:

As far as I know, he was largely an atheist. Yet even then he had the reputation among his fellow socialists of being too much of a Bible-thumper, since he was fond of quoting scriptures whenever he could. Not to mention many of his earliest political writings tried to justify anarchism on Mosaic law.

Petr
10-11-2006, 12:59 PM
Proudhon a Satanist???? :confused:

As far as I know, he was largely an atheist.
I understand that it was quite fashionable among 19th-century anticlerical radicals to strike a pro-Lucifer pose, idolizing rebellion against authorities. Even Karl Marx did it (google "Oulanem").

I would guess that Proudhon's Satanism was of same variety as that of Saul Alinsky:

"Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins -- or which is which), the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom -- Lucifer."


Petr

anti-climacus
10-12-2006, 04:58 AM
"secular" and "monarchy" are antithetical. There is really no way for a hereditary monarch to rule other than by Divine right. If it's not by blood, then you're just going to have a Chief Executive by either popular or representative vote, which is basically what we have now.

Hobbesian secular absolutism is an alternative.

Petr
11-08-2011, 08:55 AM
Republicanism and democracy can mean, and have historically often meant, very different things. The description of the 1928 military manual here is especially interesting, showing what standard American conservative attitude was before Roosevelt's "New Deal" and the rise of Jewish influence:

http://americanvision.org/5322/mobocracy-in-action/

Mobocracy in Action


“We Are What Democracy Looks Like!” is a popular slogan and sign used by the Occupiers. If mob rule is the definition of democracy, then they are right. The thing of it is, America is not a democracy. Sure, there are democratic elements in our system of government, but Article IV, section 4 of the Constitution of the United States “guarantee[s] to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government,” not a democracy. One reason these young people may not be aware of these facts is that they may never had a course on the Constitution. Anybody over 50 years old took a course called “Civics.” Now it’s “Social Studies,” and it shows.

President Obama is taking advantage of the ignorance of the Occupiers. They are “useful idiots.” Here’s a very good definition from the Urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Useful%20idiot):

Term invented in Soviet Russia to describe people who blindly supported the likes of Lenin and Stalin while they committed atrocity after atrocity. Today, it refers to brainwashed liberals and leftists the world over (usually college students that aren’t necessarily idiots, but just misinformed, naive, and ignorant of facts due to being indoctrinated with liberal/socialist propaganda through their public education) who believe that George W. Bush has committed more crimes against humanity than leftist darlings like Saddam Hussain, Yasser Arafat, and Osama Bin Laden, and still defend Communism, the cause of over 100 million deaths to this day.
A little history might help the “useful idiots” to understand something of America’s heritage. Our founders understood that Democracy is no moral cure all. John Winthrop (1588–1649), first governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony, declared direct democracy to be “the meanest and worst of all forms of government.”[1]

John Cotton (1584–1652), seventeenth-century Puritan minister in Massachusetts, wrote in 1636: “Democracy, I do not conceive that ever God did ordain as a fit government either for church or commonwealth. If the people be governors, who shall be governed?”[2]

James Madison (1751–1836), recognized as the “father of the Constitution,” wrote that democracies are “spectacles of turbulence and contention.” Pure democracies are “incompatible with personal security or the rights of property. . . . In general [they] have been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.”[3]

John Adams, the second president of the United States, stated that “the voice of the people is ‘sometimes the voice of Mahomet, of Caesar, of Catiline, the Pope, and the Devil.’”[4]

Social philosopher Francis A. Schaeffer described democracy as “the dictatorship of the 51%, with no controls and nothing with which to challenge the majority.”[5] The logic is simple: “It means that if Hitler was able to get a 51% vote of the Germans, he had a right to kill the Jews.”[6]

In 1928, a citizenship manual was developed by the War Department. Training Manual No. TM 2000-25 on Citizenship, U.S. History and the Constitution was compiled and issued to teach young men in the armed forces the fundamental principles upon which the United States was founded. As the manual states, “Training in citizenship is the most vital of all subjects to that nation whose system of government, security of property, and full power to express individual initiative are based upon the intelligence, education, and character of each individual citizen.” The Manual’s authors expressed fear that if the “proper understanding of the history, ideals, and underlying principles of our political institutions” were ever forgotten the nation would be lost.

See if any of the following descriptions of democracy fit with what we’re witnessing from the Occupy crowd:

Democracy [demos (people) vested with kratos (power)]:

A government of the masses.

Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of “direct” expression.

Results in mobocracy.

Attitude toward property is communistic — negating property rights.

Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.

Results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.
Now compare the definition of “democracy” with the Manual’s definition of “republic”:

Republic [res publica: regarding the public interest]:

Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.

Attitude toward property is respect for laws and individual rights, and a sensible economic procedure.

Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences.

A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass.

Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy.

Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress.
“Democracy . . . has been repeatedly tried without success.” The founders “made a very marked distinction between a republic and a democracy . . . and said repeatedly and emphatically that they had founded a republic.”

Maybe it’s time that the Occupiers and a boat load of politicians pick up this manual and study it. It wouldn’t hurt if voters did, too.


Endnotes:

1. Quoted in A. Marvyn Davies, Foundation of American Freedom: Calvinism in the Development of Democratic Thought and Action (Nashville, TN: Abingdon Press, 1955), 11.

2. Letter to Lord Say and Seal, quoted by Perry Miller and Thomas H. Johnson, eds., The Puritans: A Sourcebook of Their Writings, 2 vols. (New York: Harper and Row, [1938) 1963), 1:209–210. Also see Edwin Powers, Crime and Punishment in Early Massachusetts: 1620–1692 (Boston, MA: Beacon Press, 1966), 55.

3. Quoted in Jacob E. Cooke, ed., The Federalist, “Federalist 10” (Middletown, CT: Wesleyan University Press, 1961), 61.

4. John Adams, quoted by Gilbert Chinard, Honest John Adams (Boston, MA: Little, Brown and Co., [1933] 1961), 241 in John Eidsmoe, “The Christian America Response to National Confessionalism,” in Gary Scott Smith, ed., God and Politics: Four Views on the Reformation of Civil Government (Phillipsburg, NJ: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1989), 227–228.

5. Francis A. Schaeffer, The Church at the End of the Twentieth Century (1970) in The Complete Works of Francis A. Schaeffer: A Christian Worldview, 5 vols. (Westchester, IL: Crossway Books, 1982), 4:27.

6. Schaeffer, The Church at the End of the Twentieth Century, 4:27.

Petr
11-08-2011, 10:37 AM
R.L. Dabney explains the difference between "liberty & equality" in pre-modern and modern sense of the word:

http://www.archive.org/stream/DiscussionsOfRobertLewisDabneyVol.4Secular/DiscussionsOfR.l.DabneyV.4#page/n7/mode/2up

1. I would place as the first of these adverse conditions the silent substitution, under the same nomenclature, of another theory of human rights, in contrast with, and hostile to, that of our fathers. Those wise men did indeed believe in a certain equality of all men; but it was that which the British constitution (whose principles they inherited) was wont to express by the maxim: that every British citizen "was equal before the law." The particular franchises of the peer and the peasant were very unequal, but in this important respect the two men were "equal before the law," that the peasant's smaller franchises were protected by the same law which shielded the peer's larger one. This is the equality of the golden rule, the equality of that Bible which ordained the constitution of human society out of superiors, inferiors and equals; the equality of the inspired Job (ch. 31: 13-15) who in the very act of asserting his right to his slave, added: "Did not he that made me make him? If I did despise the cause of my man-servant or my maid-servant when they contended with me, what then shall I do when God riseth up?" This is the equality which is thoroughly consistent with that wide diversity of natural capacities, virtues, station, sex, inherited possessions, which inexorable fact discloses everywhere and by means of which social organization is possible. But in place of this, the equality taught by Hampden, Vane, Pym, Melville, and the Whigs of 1776, our modern politician now teaches, under the same name, the equality of the Jacobin, of the "Sans culotte," which absurdly claims for every human the same specific powers and rights. Yes, your Greeley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Greeley) teaches, as the equality of Republicanism, the very doctrine of the frantic Leveller Lilburn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lilburne), whose book these great English Republicans caused (not your tyrannical Stuart but the commonwealth's-men) to be burned in London by the common hangman!

Our fathers valued liberty, but the liberty for which they contended was each person's privilege to do those things and those only to which God's law and Providence gave him a moral right. The liberty of nature which your modern asserts is absolute license; the privilege of doing whatever a corrupt will craves, except as this license is curbed by a voluntary "social contract." The fathers of our country would have adopted the sublime words of Melville: Lex Rex. The Law is king. ... But now, by this new Republicanism, the supreme law is the will or caprice of what happens to be the major mob, the suggestion of the demagogue who is most artful to seduce.

Our own Fade also noted how modernists basically perform a quiet "switcheroo" of moral values - turning secondary virtues like liberty (or equality, or fraternity) into supreme and fundamental ones:

http://thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?p=44416&highlight=libertoons#post44416

Does it not just gall you how the libertoons present their radical philosophy which is a clean break with the Western philosophical tradition, Christian and pagan alike, as the essence of Western man? They take one single Western virtue, liberty, equivocate it into license, a vice, and hold it up as the only good in life and attempt to reduce all other goods to it, which, of course, is ass backwards as liberty is only a secondary virtue (it is a means to various higher ends).
And thus, metaphorically speaking, conventional Western conservatives often end up nursing and protecting the "changeling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changeling)" or brood parasite (http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?p=573366&highlight=cuckoo#post573366) of egalitarianism or libertinism as the supposedly legitimate offspring of Western civilization.

Petr
11-21-2011, 06:51 AM
And thus, metaphorically speaking, conventional Western conservatives often end up nursing and protecting the "changeling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changeling)" or brood parasite (http://www.thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?p=573366&highlight=cuckoo#post573366) of egalitarianism or libertinism as the supposedly legitimate offspring of Western civilization.
I was just reading Edmund Burke's last work, written in 1796 just before his death. It was a polemical piece written against British peace overtures with Jacobin France. Burke argued, among other things, that by making its peace with the new French system the English establishment would inherently discredit itself - he could basically predict the coming self-emasculation of Western conservatism that is forced to pander half-heartedly to the legacy of French Revolution, and how prosecutors of subversive agents would be accused of "McCarthyism":

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/15702/15702-h/15702-h.htm#FOURTH_LETTER

Whilst everything prepares the body to debauch and the mind to crime, a regular church of avowed atheism, established by law, with a direct and sanguinary persecution of Christianity, is formed to prevent all amendment and remorse. Conscience is formally deposed from its dominion over the mind. What fills the measure of horror is, that schools of atheism are set up at the public charge in every part of the country. That some English parents will be wicked enough to send their children to such schools there is no doubt. Better this island should be sunk to the bottom of the sea than that (so far as human infirmity admits) it should not be a country of religion and morals!

With all these causes of corruption, we may well judge what the general fashion of mind will be through both sexes and all conditions. Such spectacles and such examples will overbear all the laws that ever blackened the cumbrous volumes of our statutes. When royalty shall have disavowed itself,—when it shall have relaxed all the principles of its own support,—when it has rendered the system of Regicide fashionable, and received it as triumphant, in the very persons who have consolidated that system by the perpetration, of every crime, who have not only massacred the prince, but the very laws and magistrates which were the support of royalty, and slaughtered with an indiscriminate proscription, without regard to either sex or age, every person that was suspected of an inclination to king, law, or magistracy,—I say, will any one dare to be loyal? Will any one presume, against both authority and opinion, to hold up this unfashionable, antiquated, exploded Constitution?

The Jacobin faction in England must grow in strength and audacity; it will be supported by other intrigues and supplied by other resources than yet we have seen in action. Confounded at its growth, the government may fly to Parliament for its support. But who will answer for the temper of a House of Commons elected under these circumstances? Who will answer for the courage of a House of Commons to arm the crown with the extraordinary powers that it may demand? But the ministers will not venture to ask half of what they know they want. They will lose half of that half in the contest; and when they have obtained their nothing, they will be driven by the cries of faction either to demolish the feeble works they have thrown up in a hurry, or, in effect, to abandon them. As to the House of Lords, it is not worth mentioning. The peers ought naturally to be the pillars of the crown; but when their titles are rendered contemptible, and their property invidious, and a part of their weakness, and not of their strength, they will be found so many degraded and trembling individuals, who will seek by evasion to put off the evil day of their ruin. Both Houses will be in perpetual oscillation between abortive attempts at energy and still more unsuccessful attempts at compromise. You will be impatient of your disease, and abhorrent of your remedy. A spirit of subterfuge and a tone of apology will enter into all your proceedings, whether of law or legislation. Your judges, who now sustain so masculine an authority, will appear more on their trial than the culprits they have before them. The awful frown of criminal justice will be smoothed into the silly smile of seduction. Judges will think to insinuate and soothe the accused into conviction and condemnation, and to wheedle to the gallows the most artful of all delinquents. But they will not be so wheedled. They will not submit even to the appearance of persons on their trial. Their claim to this exemption will be admitted. The place in which some of the greatest names which ever distinguished the history of this country have stood will appear beneath their dignity. The criminal will climb from the dock to the side-bar, and take his place and his tea with the counsel. From the bar of the counsel, by a natural progress, he will ascend to the bench, which long before had been virtually abandoned. They who escape from justice will not suffer a question upon reputation. They will take the crown of the causeway; they will be revered as martyrs; they will triumph as conquerors. Nobody will dare to censure that popular part of the tribunal whose only restraint on misjudgment is the censure of the public. They who find fault with the decision will be represented as enemies to the institution. Juries that convict for the crown will be loaded with obloquy. The juries who acquit will be held up as models of justice. If Parliament orders a prosecution, and fails, (as fail it will,) it will be treated to its face as guilty of a conspiracy maliciously to prosecute. Its care in discovering a conspiracy against the state will be treated as a forged plot to destroy the liberty of the subject: every such discovery, instead of strengthening government, will weaken its reputation.