Is Communism Jewish?

[kevinwalsh]

Karl Marx was an atheist who was descended from parents who were Jews who converted to Lutheranism. Friedrich Engles was a non-Jewish German. V.I. Lenin was of mixed ancestry. One of his grandfathers was Jewish, one of his grandmothers was a Swede, and the other two grandparents apparently were non-Jews, though I don't recall whether they were Russians or of some other nationality. Josef Stalin was not Jewish, though there is some debate as to whether he was Georgian or Ossetian. Mao Zedong was Chinese. Kim Il Sung was Korean.

The notion that the great minds behind Communism were all Jewish is clearly without merit. It is certainly true that a large number of Jews sided with the Bolshevik revolution. It is also true, however, that far more Jews sided with the Mensheviks. As Josef Stalin half-jokingly said to Rosa Luxemberg in 1910 about the large number of Jews in the Menshevik faction, "There needs to be a pogrom within the party."

Many Jews joined the Bolshevik faction only at the last minute when it appeared to be the stronger faction. The classic case of that, is, of course, Leon Trotsky, who switched factions in 1917 and later proved himself to be a traitor to the revolution. Trotsky had earlier been one of Lenin's major critics, having referred to him as a "slovenly lawyer" and having referred to democratic centralism as "Lenin's self-centeredness" (source: Isaac Deutscher's biography of Trotsky).

Opportunism is a common Jewish trait, and it was no different in revolutionary Russia. The masses clearly would tolerate neither the Czar nor Kerensky's continuation of the war with a republican government. The Jews wanted to control what happened next, and Trotsky was financed by a major Jewish banker in New York City shortly before he switched sides, probably to try to do just that.

Ultimately, however, the Bolshevik revolution could not be bought, and in the late 1920s, most of the Jewish leadership was purged from the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. In 1927, Karl Radek quipped, "Moses led the Jews out of Egypt, and Stalin is leading the Jews out of the Party."

The evidence showed that Russia's Jews were treated like other Soviet citizens, with the same rights and responsibilities. From the 1930s onward, they were no more likely to be CPSU members than any other Soviet nationality. In 1953, according to the Radzhinsky biography of Stalin, he had planned a mass deportation of Jews to Siberia in response to Zionist agitation and conspiracy (what Radzhinsky calls a "second holocaust"). Radzhinsky represents his death that year as a "miracle" that saved the Jews. Of course Stalin and other Soviet leaders had alleged there was a Jewish doctor's plot to poison Soviet leadership, and this may have been the real cause. This plot may also have been behind the untimely death of Czech leader Gottwald, who had been behind the execution of the Jewish Czech leader Slansky for treason in 1952.

From the late 1960s to the mid 1980s there was, in the west, the campaign to "free Soviet Jews," because they were not allowed to emigrate freely to aid Zionism.

The Soviets fell into the trap that many others had in expecting that treating Jews fairly would result in their being good citizens. In this, however, they certainly were not unique, and Soviet toleration of Jews doubtless contributed to the Soviet Union's downfall. Certainly a disproportionate number of those getting wealthy from looting what was left in the 1990s were Jewish. This does not mean Communism was Jewish; it means we must make self-criticism and resolve that when rebuilding socialism, Jews cannot be a part of our society.

When we examine what kind of society the Soviet Union was, it clearly was no Jewish paradise. Jews were required, as were all Soviet citizens, to do the following:

1. Perform honest and useful labour.
2. Perform military service.

Jews (as all Soviet citizens) were forbidden from doing the following:

1. Engaging in usury.
2. Engaging in stock speculation.
3. Engaging in land speculation.
4. Publishing pornography.
5. Engaging in black marketeering.

The Soviet Union, People's China, People's Korea, and the other socialist countries, had largely escaped Jewish finance capital. Very little foreign money of any kind was invested in these economies (certainly compared with capitalist countries). They had to modernize using their own resources.

The remaining socialist country, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, is probably the one country in the world with no Jewish population and may very well be the most racially pure society in the world. There is no foreign finance capital invested in their economy.

The notion that Communism is Jewish seems nonsensical to me. It is often used by the right to justify the anti-White crimes of Operation Barbarossa and the Cold War. Capitalism, however, is the truly Jewish ideology, and Karl Marx addressed this in his essay "On the Jewish Question" in 1843. It is strange that this is one essay by Marx which is seldom advertised by anyone on the right or the left. It makes it clear that Marx didn't have a high opinion of his fellow-Jews.

[kevinwalsh]

If any readers wish to read Karl Marx's essay "On the Jewish Question," this is the URL:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/

[Joe McCarthy]

I argue elsewhere (my Marx thread in the Colorblind Society) that Marxism is Jewish.

[JDS]

Marxism/Communism definately qualifies as a secularized Jewish cult in spite of it occasionally being co-opted by nationaliststic forces. Its heart and soul is Jewish.

[kevinwalsh]

Fascinating stuff! I'm sorry I missed those posts. Not being anti-racist, I don't venture into that forum. I reviewed your statements in that thread, and I actually agree with most of what you posted. I have been having this argument with both leftists and rightists for a time. Neither Marx nor Engels contended that there were no racial differences among peoples of the world or that "everybody was equal." If people want to read nonsense about "all men being created equal," they can look to bourgeois documents of the Enlightenment, not to Marx or Engels. A lot of the pro "Aztlan" people who claim to be Marxists would be disappointed on Engles' stand on the Mexican War in cheering on the Americans as a force of civilisational progress and disparaging "lazy Mexicans."

When Marx said, "Working men of all countries unite," he wasn't addressing Negroes, or Red Indians, or Asians. His words, at the time, were translated into languages read by white peoples. His words are, in modern times, an ideal slogan for White nationalists.

I disagree with you that this discredits Marxism in any way. It is the fools who claim there are no racial differences that this discredits. I also disagree with your arguments that Marxism is Jewish. You stated that materialism in Jewish. I disagree. There have been many Aryan and Asian materialists. It certainly doesn't discredit materialism.

[JDS]

Materialism, Cynical Political Realism, and even Free Market theory are not inherently Jewish although they are typically accused of being such by some.

Democritus, Lucretius, Machiavelli, Hobbes, and Adam Smith were not Jews.

A Jewish corruption or manifestation of an idea does not mean the original idea is inherently Jewish.

[Joe McCarthy]

I think it would be difficult to establish that the sort of vulgar, money-centered materialism that I articulate on my thread is endemic to Asian or Aryan cultures/religions. It's pretty much a Jew thang.

[JDS]

I think it would be difficult to establish that the sort of vulgar, money-centered materialism that I articulate on my thread is endemic to Asian or Aryan cultures/religions. It's pretty much a Jew thang.

I agree 100%

Propriety is not a Jewish trait.

[Kostya Novoselov]

Leon Trotsky, who switched factions in 1917 and later proved himself to be a traitor to the revolution.

Trotsky was never a traitor to the revolution.

Stalin was.

[ScottishStalinist1]

Trotsky was never a traitor to the revolution.

Stalin was.

Neither Stalin or Trotsky were traitors to the Great October Socialist Revolution. Once Lenin got back and put forward his line to the Bolshevik Party, and then when the revolution started, both Stalin and Trotsky supported the revolution and took part in it. What caused Trotsky to be banished from the Soviet Union was not because of his actions during the revolution, Stalin still praised Trotsky's role in the revolution and the civil war many years after the political struggle against Trotskyism started (c. 1928), it was Trotsky's belief that the Soviet Union could only turn socialist after a world revolution, that is his rejection of the building of socialism in one country, which caused him to be expelled by the Soviet state, first internally then externally. This is what he could be a called a traitor for. It is Trotskyists, and people that take their view of the Soviet Union, that call people "betrayers of the revolution", ex post facto, precisely because they reject the theory and practice of building socialism in one count and believe the actual revolution, when the Bolshevik Party took power, was the only possible achievement of the Soviet's dictatorship of the proletariat.

[Kostya Novoselov]

Neither Stalin or Trotsky were traitors to the Great October Socialist Revolution.

Even when Lenin was alive, Trotsky was warning against the dangers of growing bureaucracy in the party. At that time, the ideological disagreements and clashes within the party was a normal modus operandi.

When Lenin died, the bureaucracy led by an uneducated Georgian monk, Stalin, took over the party, then the state, and launched a methodical political war against Trotsky and the whole Lenin’s generation of political leaders.

As Trotsky wrote in his Alma-Ata exile, “Stalin emerged as the half-conscious expression of the second chapter of the revolution, its Morning After".

The first arrests of Lenin’s revolutionaries, Trotsky’s exile and deportation, the purges, the mass exterminations – all of this is the result of Stalin’s hijacking of the revolution.

Stalin is the traitor. This is something that Lenin probably suspected given his last letters. Unfortunately, Lenin was psysically incapacitated and could not oversee a political removal of Stalin. And Trotsky didn’t have enough political weight in the Politburo. He didn’t have tactical political skills either.

These last Lenin’s years, the relationships between Lenin-Trotsky-Stalin, Stalin’s carefully calibrated psychological campaign against Lenin and his family, and Stalin’s subsequent usurpation of power is a Shakespearean level drama.

[kevinwalsh]

There weren't any mass exterminations. There might well have been had Trotsky gotten his way--mass exterminations of Russians and other white people in a futile struggle to force revolutions on other countries.

[ScottishStalinist1]

Even when Lenin was alive, Trotsky was warning against the dangers of growing bureaucracy in the party.

Anti-bureaucratic talk was common throughout all leading Bolsheviks. Action against the bureaucracy, the practice of anti-bureaucracy, occurred during the 1930s when most of the higher echelons were purged.



When Lenin died, the bureaucracy led by an uneducated Georgian monk,

It seems you share Trotsky's snobbery which was hated by the Soviet people (this along with his Jewish roots, made it impossible for him to ever become leader of Soviet Russia and the Soviet Union). Stalin when training to become a monk, was one of the most highly educated Georgians of the era because of the Church education. By the time 1917 came, he was the undisputed main Bolshevik leader and organiser in the Russian Empire contrary to Trotsky's lies and revisionism.



Stalin, took over the party, then the state, and launched a methodical political war against Trotsky and the whole Lenin’s generation of political leaders.

More importantly he built socialism in the USSR, in one country, which Trotsky said was impossible. Trotskyism, which you obviously are inclined towards, was refuted and thrown into the dustbin of history by the 1930s.

As Trotsky wrote in his Alma-Ata exile, “Stalin emerged as the half-conscious expression of the second chapter of the revolution, its Morning After".

When Stalin became editor of Pravda on March 1917 when he moved to Petrograd, it was he that quickly and sharply took Lenin's new revolutionary line just before the revolution. This and his years of organising the proletariat in the Baku oilfields, perhaps the most exploited proletariat in the whole of the Russian Empire, and his now well known other revolutionary actions, makes it clear that Trotsky's tale is a lie.


The first arrests of Lenin’s revolutionaries, Trotsky’s exile and deportation, the purges, the mass exterminations – all of this is the result of Stalin’s hijacking of the revolution.

Arrests of revolutionaries, exiling of political opponents, purging Communist Party members, and mass exterminations, all occurred during Lenin's leadership.

And Trotsky didn’t have enough political weight in the Politburo.

He didn't have enough support from the masses, the great majority of Communist Party members, and the majority of state workers. This is because his theories were counter-revolutionary and anti-Soviet - i.e. socialism in one country is impossible due to Russia's backwardness, the Western worker is the only hope for the Soviet people etc. Russians and other Soviet nationalities could not have such crazy people leading their country. This is why Stalin became leader.

[Kostya Novoselov]

There weren't any mass exterminations. There might well have been had Trotsky gotten his way

And you know it how? Because Trotsky was a Jew?

What we do know is that it was Stalin’s bureaucracy that first started with successful exterminated of significant portions of minorities, including 2-3 millions of Ukrainians during the Holodomor.

Dozens of millions of Russian citizens had perished in what Solzhenitsyn correctly calls in his Gulag Archipelago as Stalin’s “extermination factories”.

[kevinwalsh]

The burden of proof is upon the one who makes the assertion. I don't believe the accusation that Stalin was responsibility for the massacre of tens of millions of people for the same reason I don't believe the Holocaust story or the Armenian genocide story. There's no proof. The ravings of some monarchist pseudo-intellectual rightly confined to a prison camp don't constitute proof of anything. Indeed the Soviet archives tell a far different story. According to the work of J. Arch Getty (1993), the Soviet archives reveal that throughout their history during the Stalin administration (1934 to 1953), only about one million people died in the Soviet Gulag system. These deaths spiked in 1942 and 1943, at a time when many free Soviet civilians were dying of malnutrition and related diseases. By 1953, the death rate in the Gulag system had declined to 0.3% per year--a rate lower than that of the general Soviet population. The Gulags were not the Ritz, but they weren't death camps either. As with the myth of Nazi gassings, Stalinist mass exterminations never happened.

[Königin Luise von Preußen]

yes, and the Attatürk was not a Free-Maisonist, who tied their people "ties" around their neck and made the Turks write Latin to abandon Arabic letter - within weeks, not month, nor hundreds or thousand of years.. and killed Armenians.

About Stalin there is even a Handbook given out by the Russian government, too, maybe it is the upgrade of that stated.. they show no sorrow, no repentance no remorse.. and - not any interest for the realistic truth in their way of lacking historical conscience.. too bad..
just SUPERCAPITALISM rules, not a sense of responsibility.. cheap propaganda ploy, that is what I say.. calculation thousands - millions, making it equal and the guy was a "good boy".. it is ruthless, just ruthless, not honest..

[Königin Luise von Preußen]

what is said about the "manual", here comes an article following.. and first two other on that ..

March 14, 2003, 9:00 a.m.
Stalin’s Legacy
The Russian challenge.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-satter031403.asp


Russian Dissidents Denounce Western-Backed 'New Stalinism'
Socialist Action /April 2000
http://www.socialistaction.org/news/200004/russian.html
________________________________________________________________



Stalin's mass murders were 'entirely rational' says new Russian textbook praising tyrant

By Will Stewart
Last updated at 1:10 AM on 03rd September 2008
source found in UKs worldnews (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1051871/Stalins-mass-murders-entirely-rational-says-new-Russian-textbook-praising-tyrant.html)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/02/article-1051871-01F9F41C000004B0-408_233x298.jpg
Ruthless: 20 million died as a result of Stalin's actions

Stalin acted ‘entirely rationally’ in executing and imprisoning millions of people in the Gulags, a controversial new Russian teaching manual claims.

Fifty-five years after the Soviet dictator died, the latest guide for teachers to promote patriotism among the Russian young said he did what he did to ensure the country’s modernisation.

The manual, titled A History of Russia, 1900-1945, will form the basis of a new state-approved text book for use in schools next year.

It seems to follow an attempt backed by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin to re-evaluate Stalin’s record in a more positive light.

Critics have taken exception, however, to numerous excerpts, which they say are essentially attempts to whitewash Stalin’s crimes.

In the West, it has been widely accepted that in the 1920s millions were shot, exiled to Siberia, or died of starvation after their land, homes and meagre possessions, were taken to fulfil Stalin’s vision of massive ‘factory farms.’

In the 1930s millions more whom he considered or suspected a threat to the USSR were executed or exiled to Gulag labour camps in remote areas of Siberia or Central Asia, where many also died of disease, malnutrition and exposure.

Historians believe up to 20 million people perished as a result of his actions - more than the six million killed during Hitler’s genocide of the Jews.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/02/article-1051871-0065F19800000258-462_468x325.jpg
Worked to death: Although millions perished in Siberian Labour camps like this one, the textbook says that Stalin only did this to push through modernisation


Now the new teaching manual is attempting to tell a generation of Russian schoolchildren that Stalin acted rationally.

One of the authors, Anatoly Utkin, is keener to promote another statistic about Stalin, stressing some 10,000 books in his library had his personal jottings and marks in them.

‘Can you tell me of any other leader, an American president, for example, who read 10,000 books?’


Starved: A Polish child sent to a camp after the USSR's invasion of Poland following Stalin's pact with Hitler
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/02/article-1051871-0065F42600000258-310_233x413.jpg


The manual informs teachers that the Great Terror of the 1930s came about because Stalin ‘did not know who would deal the next blow, and for that reason he attacked every known group and movement, as well as those who were not his allies or of his mindset.’

It stresses to teachers that ‘it is important to show that Stalin acted in a concrete historical situation’ and that he acted ‘entirely rationally - as the guardian of a system, as a consistent supporter of reshaping the country into an industrialised state.’

Editor Alexander Danilov said: ‘We are not defending Stalin. We are just exploring his personality, explaining his motives and showing what he really achieved.’

The controversial manual is produced by the country’s leading school book publishers Prosveshenije, a state-supported company that was a monopoly supplier of classroom texts in the Soviet era, and appears to be returning to that role.

The company boasts: ‘We are proud that we brought up generations of Soviet people - and today we keep on improving our textbooks.’

With close links to the Kremlin, the company’s website states: ‘Prosveshenije remains one of the few effective instruments of national consolidation, a centre of forming and distributing Russian educational values.’

The teaching manual could not have been produced without the support and approval of the Russian government.

Prominent Russian historian Roy Medvedev dubbed the manual ‘a falsification. Stalin by no means acted rationally all of the time, and many of his actions damaged the country

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/02/article-1051871-052905DB0000044D-950_468x693.jpg
Vain: During his reign Stalin also enforced his own cult of personality

Before World War II, he said, ‘many in the military ranks were arrested, like my father, for example, and their children, little boys, were sent to the front.’

Alexander Kamensky, head of the history department at the Russia State University for the Humanities, said the manual was, ‘sadly,’ a sign that teaching history in schools has become ‘an ideological instrument.’

But it seems to echo Putin’s remarks to a group of history teachers in June 2007 when he said while Stalin’s purges were one of the darkest periods of the country’s history, ‘others cannot be allowed to impose a feeling of guilt on us.’

An earlier manual called Stalin an ‘effective manager’.

___________

comments:
Stalin was a complete monster. He had friends and colleagues as well as perfect strangers murdered on his whim. He was paranoid and saw everyone as a potential threat. He is the greatest mass murderer of all time and noe Russia, (well Putin's Russia) wants to "rehabilitate" this genocidal maniac.

Perhaps there's a wish to get back to those times by the present leaders.

Never forget that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Never was there a better example of this than Stalin. He made Hitler look like an amateur!

It is a very worrying trend to see Russia slipping back to the old ways.


Stalin behaved like any other Narcissistic control freak would do if they could get away with it. It doesn't matter if its the left or right, Hitler and Stalin both did the same thing. All politicians and leaders need to be screened for psychological problems including McBean & Co.


This man was a mass murderer and no amount of Putin rubbish will change that!

[kevinwalsh]

Just because a textbook published by the current Russian government asserts something doesn't make it true. I'm sure we all know textbooks that are full of falsehoods--like most American history textbooks.

[Königin Luise von Preußen]

Just because a textbook published by the current Russian government asserts something doesn't make it true. I'm sure we all know textbooks that are full of falsehoods--like most American history textbooks.
you didn`t get the point, did you?

[calvin]

An exposition on the racial identity of Marx, Lenin, Trotsky will not answer the question posed in this thread title. It is not enough to look at the leaders of a movement. Would anyone refute the assertion that Nazism was a German movement on the basis that Hitler was Austrian? No!

Jews became leaders of revolutionary governments in Hungary and Romania and headed communist movements in Germany and other European countries. I believe that American communism was also heavily Jewish.

Mr Walsh's argument is not based on the totality of the evidence.

[kevinwalsh]

An exposition on the racial identity of Marx, Lenin, Trotsky will not answer the question posed in this thread title. It is not enough to look at the leaders of a movement. Would anyone refute the assertion that Nazism was a German movement on the basis that Hitler was Austrian? No!

Jews became leaders of revolutionary governments in Hungary and Romania and headed communist movements in Germany and other European countries. I believe that American communism was also heavily Jewish.

Mr Walsh's argument is not based on the totality of the evidence.

Austria-Hungary was a multinational state and included many ethnic Germans, including Hitler, so I don't think anyone would seriously dispute National Socialism's German character (whether it was in the interests of the German people is another matter).

My arguments go far deeper than that, as you could read if you read thoroughly. Most of the supporters of Communism in the Soviet Union, China, Korea, and elsewhere were non-Jewish, and the Jewish element of the Bolshevik Revolution was largely purged within a decade.

[calvin]

Most of the supporters of Communism in the Soviet Union, China, Korea, and elsewhere were non-Jewish, and the Jewish element of the Bolshevik Revolution was largely purged within a decade

Europe was the crucible of Communism, therefore its motive elements in Europe must be our area of concern. Das Kapital was a critique of capitalism. The relevance of this critique to China, which was a feudal bureaucracy, can only have been coincidental. The early communists were of the firm belief that the workers revolution would take place in industrial Germany. Communism seems to have had an accidental appeal in countries which had no, or little, history of democratic reform. Communism in Europe and America seems to have been disproportionally Jewish. I have yet to see you present any evidence that suggests otherwise.

[Ahknaton]

I think it would be difficult to establish that the sort of vulgar, money-centered materialism that I articulate on my thread is endemic to Asian or Aryan cultures/religions. It's pretty much a Jew thang.
There are several definitions of "materialism" and I often find that rightists and leftists end up talking at cross-purposes when using this term but understanding different meanings by it. The kind of "materialism" you are deriding is (I assume) the individualistic money-centred avaricious consumerism that prevails in the West right now. In a Marxist sense the term has a different meaning, which I will leave to one of the Marxists here to elaborate on.

[Vasily Zaitsev]

When discussing whether or not a thing is Jewish (or essentially bound to any other ethnic identity), it is important to make clear whether we are discussing a thing being Jewish by character or by composition. Arguing that communism is Jewish by pointing to prominent communists of Jewish descent can only hope to establish that communism has been compositionally Jewish at times. It is still incumbent on those making the argument to prove that composition dictates character.

Joe attempts to do so by characterizing Marxism as vulgarly materialistic and associating vulgar materialism with Jews. I disagree with this. For one, it is not the position of Marxism that material goods are the source of human fulfillment. Rather, Marxists argue that fulfilling and elevating activity is more likely to occur when humans are freed from the struggle for survival and that unalienated labor can be one of these activities. Notice that activity rather than possession is paramount in this view. Marxism seeks to destroy the conditions that breed vulgar materialism in the popular mind.

I also take issue with the idea that vulgar materialism is inherently Jewish and can only spread by efforts of the Jews. Diaspora Jews (especially in the West) have doubtless shown a predilection for that mindset. However, the spread of this spiritual malaise inevitably accompanies the growth of capitalism and that mode of production grew faster and fared better in European states that expelled Jews. As Kevin MacDonald pointed out, the Eastern European states that failed to expel Jews developed capitalism at a slower pace or failed to fully develop it because Jews filled the niche that a native bourgeoisie did in other polities and due to the legally stigmatized status of the Jews they were unable to act politically as a class and overthrow feudalism. Vulgar materialism may be the spirit of modern Jewishness, but it is not a domain exclusive to Jews. Gentiles have nobody to blame but their own collective bourgeoisie for the growth of vulgar materialism in the West.

Marxism is not only non-Jewish, it is a form of political anti-Semitism. In his essay on the Jewish question, Marx wrote that the end of finance would be the end of the Jewish people as a distinct unit; the liberation of Jews from Judaism and Jewishness. Marx spoke of socialism making the Jew impossible.

Furthermore, Leninists have always denied the national character of the Jews and have therefore generally opposed nationalist activity on the part of Jews. The realities of post-WWII politicking led to a brief period of support for the state of Israel as a foil against imperialism in the Near East, but this decision was incorrect both practically and ideologically.

[calvin]

That's a very good post and you make a couple of excellent points, however I would argue that although Marxism was ideologically non-Jewish, it was still deeply appealing to Jews because it represented an improvement on their immediate situation. Communism was inclusively anti-Semitic, in that its desire was to bring Judaism into the fold of Communism. The classic European approach was exclusively anti-Semitic, in that it sought to separate and isolate Jewish communities. We must also take into account the fact that the destruction of traditional European societies by Communism was in and off itself a cause of much celebration to many resentful Jews. This would have been especially true of much of the Jewish intelligentsia who had no investment in the religious aspects of Jewish culture that the Communists sought to obliterate. It seems probable to me that many Jews thought that they could maintain their ethnic nepotism, at the cost of abandoning their extrinsic religious identity, whilst fully exploiting their intellectual advantages in a radically reformed socialistic Europe. This would at least explain the apparent substantial over representation of European Jews in Communist movements.

[kevinwalsh]

I hardly think Communism would do much to improve the lot of Jews either in the 19th Century or the 20th. Communism means no more usury, no more stock speculation, no more land speculation, no more huckstering, and a requirement to earn one's living by honest and useful labour. That does not sound to me like something appealing to most Jews.

[calvin]

I hardly think Communism would do much to improve the lot of Jews either in the 19th Century or the 20th. Communism means no more usury, no more stock speculation, no more land speculation, no more huckstering, and a requirement to earn one's living by honest and useful labour

I think my previous post addresses these points. Western countries, especially in Eastern Europe, had developed protective measures against Jewish group evolutionary strategy and its methods (which you highlight) which have come to be known collectively as "anti-Semitism". Communism may have required the individual to earn a living by honest and useful labour at an ideological level, but in reality the Communist state contained a vast over-class of party members and intellectuals. It was the prospect of membership of this class that appealed to Jewish (and Western) intellectuals. I doubt that any of the advocates of Communism wanted to substitute their lives of coffee house political posturing for the pick and the shovel.

[kevinwalsh]

I think my previous post addresses these points. Western countries, especially in Eastern Europe, had developed protective measures against Jewish group evolutionary strategy and its methods (which you highlight) which have come to be known collectively as "anti-Semitism". Communism may have required the individual to earn a living by honest and useful labour at an ideological level, but in reality the Communist state contained a vast over-class of party members and intellectuals. It was the prospect of membership of this class that appealed to Jewish (and Western) intellectuals. I doubt that any of the advocates of Communism wanted to substitute their lives of coffee house political posturing for the pick and the shovel.

Capitalist societies have always had far more positions of this kind. They are sometimes called "the chattering class," and there are many Jews represented in that. Even Hitler noticed that about the German Army during the Great War: "Every Jew was a clerk, and every clerk was a Jew."

[calvin]

Capitalist societies have always had far more positions of this kind. They are sometimes called "the chattering class," and there are many Jews represented in that. Even Hitler noticed that about the German Army during the Great War: "Every Jew was a clerk, and every clerk was a Jew

I'm sure Hitler's implication was that Jews were avoiding dangerous front line positions. He was certainly not affirming the priviliged status of Jews in the German army. There may have been more demand for the skill that are traditionally associated with Jewish culture in pre-Communist Europe but their ambitions in this direction were always limited by the glass ceiling of ingrained nativist anti-Semitism.

[Joe McCarthy]

There are several definitions of "materialism" and I often find that rightists and leftists end up talking at cross-purposes when using this term but understanding different meanings by it. The kind of "materialism" you are deriding is (I assume) the individualistic money-centred avaricious consumerism that prevails in the West right now. In a Marxist sense the term has a different meaning, which I will leave to one of the Marxists here to elaborate on.

It's been my personal experience that the Marxists on this board know less about Marx than I do. Lest you think I'm boasting, I'm not. It's just been my experience.

When I speak of the crass materialism of Marx I do not mean materialism in the philosophical sense, but in the money-centered sense, yes. Though this should not be confused with the capitalist-consumerist ethos now current. What I meant, and again this is all elaborated on the thread I link to in my sig, is that Marx's worldview is permeated by concerns having to do with economic problems, whether they be related to economics, class, or history. This is clearly a Judeocentric view, and as none of the men who influenced him shared it (including British political economists sans Ricardo, another Jew) one is left to ask where he derived this framework if not from Judaism.

It is my opinion that attempts to disassociate Marx from Judaism are rather strained efforts to either salvage him for use by the left or (even) the right. It's instructive to note that even though Marx was a 'self-hating Jew', he surrounded himself with Jews, and was suspected of being a paid lackey of the House of Rothschild by many of his contemporaries, in particular Bakunin.

[Kostya Novoselov]

it is important to make clear whether we are discussing a thing being Jewish by character or by composition.

I think one of the most forceful representations in favor of the character argument was made by Isaac Babel, a great Russian jewish writer, in his “Red Cavalry” (“Konarmiya”).

Great prose that sometimes reads as unforgettable poetry.

The Konarmiya collection includes several dialogues between a Jewish revolutionary (obviously representing Babel’s point of view at the time), and his opponent, a religious Jew, with the revolutionary stating that to do Revolution is to do Tikkun Olam - which is a must no matter what the cost is.

[Errigal]

I think one of the most forceful representations in favor of the character argument was made by Isaac Babel, a great Russian jewish writer, in his “Red Cavalry” (“Konarmiya”).

Great prose that sometimes reads as unforgettable poetry.

The Konarmiya collection includes several dialogues between a Jewish revolutionary (obviously representing Babel’s point of view at the time), and his opponent, a religious Jew, with the revolutionary stating that to do Revolution is to do Tikkun Olam - which is a must no matter what the cost is.

Well isn't that interesting. Here's something about President Bush's adoption of tikkun olam.


Jewish World Review Jan. 31, 2005 / 21 Shevat, 5765
What Bush understands
about ‘tikkun olam’

By Lloyd M. Green

Few noticed that key portion of President's second inaugural address borrowed from Jewish liturgy, philosophy


http://www.JewishWorldReview.com | President George W. Bush's second Inaugural Address was certainly ecumenical. As he honored Christianity, Judaism and Islam, he recalled the "truths of Sinai, the Sermon on the Mount, the words of the Koran, and the varied faiths of our people." But the 43rd President went far beyond that.

The speech used the language of the traditional Jewish liturgy to outline a breathtaking vision for the future of the world. The President and his speech writer, Michael Gerson, appear to have infused the text and tone of the speech with language from the High Holiday liturgy, and the message of the Aleinu — the concluding daily prayer of traditional Jewish worship that is also given a central role during the High Holiday service. How do I know that? Because, as a product of a Jewish Day School, the Yeshivah of Flatbush, who is still observant, I have been saying almost-identical words all my life.


In his speech, Bush contended that the "great objective of ending tyranny is the concentrated work of generations." In the High Holiday prayers, the congregation explicitly and literally prays for the vanquishing of evil and the "passing of the rule of tyranny", which is then immediately followed by praying for the exclusive rule of G-d over all of His creation from Mount Zion.


And so when Bush declared that America's policies were aimed at the "ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world", I kept thinking about how that would sound in Hebrew — I could hear my ears ring with the text of the High Holiday liturgy — "ta'avir memsheles zadon min ha'aretz". This same religious ideal also finds voice in the second stanza of the Aleinu prayer, which begins "Al ken nekaveh" (literally, "therefore we put our hope in You"). At the core of the Al ken nekaveh is tikkun olam, the "perfection of the world through the Almighty's sovereignty." In other words, tikkun olam is not about "Kumbayah," holding hands, taking a village, or even leaving no child behind.


Rather, liturgically and traditionally tikkun olam is about all of humanity calling G-d's name, and literally and metaphorically eradicating idolatry and G-d's willing "every knee to bend" before Him and "every tongue swearing" allegiance to Him.


Thus, without ever using the actual words "tikkun olam", George W. Bush, the Methodist scion of Greenwich and Midland, demonstrated a better grasp of the original intent and meaning of tikkun olam than either Michael Lerner or Bill Clinton. And that is what made the Bush Second Inaugural memorable, and worthy of both attention and pause. Namely, tikkun olam is about making G-d's dominion felt in both its majesty and force in the here and now on Earth.


For Jews, that is heady stuff. Unfortunately as our tragic history shows, it rarely works out that way. But Bush, President of the United States, commander-in-chief of an armed force many times mightier than Joshua's, Saul's and David's combined, is a different story. If Bush decides to bring the blessings of heaven to earth, if in fact, "America's vital interests and deepest beliefs are now one," he needs to be taken seriously. Although of course, that doesn't mean he will necessarily prevail, as my mighty Jewish ancestors discovered in their time.


For America, the Speech marks the political fusion of the Evangelical and the Orthodox.


Regardless, the President's expressions are definitely religious orthodoxies, and many may find them to be noble sentiments. But is the pursuit of the eradication of tyranny, as opposed to the pursuit of happiness, a viable policy and goal for government?


History suggests that, no matter how well intentioned, mankind has a bad record when it comes to establishing G-d's Kingdom on this earth, or in pursuing a Utopian ideal. It is not simply that men fail. Rather, more often than not failure is accompanied by carnage and ruin, and an actual result that may bear no relation to the initial or stated ideal.


Our time has witnessed the savagery of Utopianism — Stalin's Russia, Hitler's Germany, Mao's China, Khomeini's Iran, and the Taliban's Afghanistan. Which leads me to believe that Utopianism as a policy can have horrible consequences. Indeed, the Aleinu prayer, which is traditionally ascribed as dating back to Joshua's conquest of Jericho, became the final prayer of choice for medieval martyrs. Over time, a prayer in the time of victory became the prayer for the bowed, if not for the vanquished.
...

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0105/bush_tikkun_olam.php3

[Kostya Novoselov]

Yes, there was certainly a spirit of Tikkun Olam in Leon Trotsky’s idea of the export of revolution that was later adapted by the neo-conservatives into the export of democracy.

[Errigal]

Yes, there was certainly a spirit of Tikkun Olam in Leon Trotsky’s idea of the export of revolution that was later adapted by the neo-conservatives into the export of democracy.

Yes, I'm going to put together a thing about the Aleinu prayer and post it in Jewology in the next few days.

[kevinwalsh]

It's been my personal experience that the Marxists on this board know less about Marx than I do. Lest you think I'm boasting, I'm not. It's just been my experience.

When I speak of the crass materialism of Marx I do not mean materialism in the philosophical sense, but in the money-centered sense, yes. Though this should not be confused with the capitalist-consumerist ethos now current. What I meant, and again this is all elaborated on the thread I link to in my sig, is that Marx's worldview is permeated by concerns having to do with economic problems, whether they be related to economics, class, or history. This is clearly a Judeocentric view, and as none of the men who influenced him shared it (including British political economists sans Ricardo, another Jew) one is left to ask where he derived this framework if not from Judaism.

It is my opinion that attempts to disassociate Marx from Judaism are rather strained efforts to either salvage him for use by the left or (even) the right. It's instructive to note that even though Marx was a 'self-hating Jew', he surrounded himself with Jews, and was suspected of being a paid lackey of the House of Rothschild by many of his contemporaries, in particular Bakunin.

I must confess I had assumed you were simply referring to dialectical materialism, as opposed to idealism and spirituality. That's why I found what you said to be absurd. Of course there had been materialists that sense among Aryans from the time of ancient Greece.

As far as the other kind of materialism goes, Marxism simply asserts that man's physical needs must be met before he builds culture and addresses his spiritual needs, not that the latter are unimportant.

[Joe McCarthy]

I must confess I had assumed you were simply referring to dialectical materialism, as opposed to idealism and spirituality. That's why I found what you said to be absurd. Of course there had been materialists that sense among Aryans from the time of ancient Greece.

As far as the other kind of materialism goes, Marxism simply asserts that man's physical needs must be met before he builds culture and addresses his spiritual needs, not that the latter are unimportant.

Marx was influenced by Greek materialists like Democritus, but ancient Greek culture was far from consumed with monetary concerns. Quite the contrary. As C.M. Bowra pointed out, the Greeks were laid back and saw study and knowledge acquisition as the highest ends in life, not the pursuit of lucre. Moreover, in the end I am speaking of culture and the effect a culture has on individuals within it. While any culture will have its money-getters, we must ask if the culture of which they belong emphasizes this. The Jewish culture does. The Greek, or really any Aryan culture, didn't. Marx, though an atheist, was clearly influenced by a certain cultural inertia. He was what he accused capitalist Jews of being, except that he centered his monetary vulgarity through a socialist framework.

I disagree with you on Marxism's emphasis on physical needs. Virtually anyone would agree that a full stomach is a prerequisite. It's interesting that those who actually did emphasize the desire for a full belly as the main (if not only) goal, the believers in 'economism', were savaged by Marxists like Lenin. Marx's entire worldview was money-centered. He was the classic economic determinist. To him, it drove everything.

[Cadavre Exquis]

Marx was influenced by Greek materialists like Democritus, but ancient Greek culture was far from consumed with monetary concerns. Quite the contrary. As C.M. Bowra pointed out, the Greeks were laid back and saw study and knowledge acquisition as the highest ends in life, not the pursuit of lucre. Moreover, in the end I am speaking of culture and the effect a culture has on individuals within it. While any culture will have its money-getters, we must ask if the culture of which they belong emphasizes this. The Jewish culture does. The Greek, or really any Aryan culture, didn't. Marx, though an atheist, was clearly influenced by a certain cultural inertia. He was what he accused capitalist Jews of being, except that he centered his monetary vulgarity through a socialist framework.

I disagree with you on Marxism's emphasis on physical needs. Virtually anyone would agree that a full stomach is a prerequisite. It's interesting that those who actually did emphasize the desire for a full belly as the main (if not only) goal, the believers in 'economism', were savaged by Marxists like Lenin. Marx's entire worldview was money-centered. He was the classic economic determinist. To him, it drove everything.
Socialists societies were hardly material driven day-to-day. If what you say regarding ancient Greek society is true, then capitalism differs far more radically from it than socialism.

I would like you to provide a source wherein Lenin (or any other notable Marxist) savages people that advocate a well-fed general population.

[Joe McCarthy]

Socialists societies were hardly material driven day-to-day. If what you say regarding ancient Greek society is true, then capitalism differs far more radically from it than socialism.

I would like you to provide a source wherein Lenin (or any other notable Marxist) savages people that advocate a well-fed general population.

Socialism is materialistic to the bone. It concerns itself with the material wants of society as the highest end.

You may be misunderstanding me somewhat on the subject of Lenin but I'll say this:

Lenin's criticism of the advocates of economism is found in his What is to be done? In it he argues that these people are wrong-headed as they view the struggle almost solely in terms of the attainment of bread and adequate living conditions for the 'workers', whereas Lenin saw the struggle in political terms. On a related note, it's interesting that Lenin himself, adhering to the 'worse is better' methodology, favored the Russian famine of the 1890's, knowing it would tend to stir the 'workers' to revolt. We see in this that, yes, Marxists DO often oppose a 'well fed population' for political purposes.

[Cadavre Exquis]

Socialism is materialistic to the bone. It concerns itself with the material wants of society as the highest end.
I never said that socialism wasn't materialistic. I am just pointing out the differences in culture between modern (i.e. 20th century) socialist and capitalist society. Capitalism as it is experienced today by the majority of people is far more concerned with satisfying material wants.

You may be misunderstanding me somewhat on the subject of Lenin but I'll say this:

Lenin's criticism of the advocates of economism is found in his What is to be done? In it he argues that these people are wrong-headed as they view the struggle almost solely in terms of the attainment of bread and adequate living conditions for the 'workers', whereas Lenin saw the struggle in political terms. On a related note, it's interesting that Lenin himself, adhering to the 'worse is better' methodology, favored the Russian famine of the 1890's, knowing it would tend to stir the 'workers' to revolt. We see in this that, yes, Marxists DO often oppose a 'well fed population' for political purposes.
As I understand it, the point is that the suffering of the past is a means to an end that will see the elimination of such suffering for all. The dictatorship of the proletariat was a necessary step to achieve this. IMO Lenin is attacking the short-term view that others took at the time, and advocating a path that would see the fulfillment of Marxist goals.

[Kostya Novoselov]

Lenin's criticism of the advocates of economism is found in his What is to be done? In it he argues that these people are wrong-headed as they view the struggle almost solely in terms of the attainment of bread and adequate living conditions for the 'workers', whereas Lenin saw the struggle in political terms.

Russian marxists, of course, didn’t hold the unified position on Lenin’s thesis in “What Is To Be Done”, which is what later led to the Bolsheviks – Mensheviks split.

Lenin, in fact, was in the minority, at the time. Even Trotsky criticized his work.

[kevinwalsh]

We've heard from a lot of people in this debate, but there is one notable exception: Banjo Billy. It was he who challenged me to this debate in the first place. Banjo Billy, you have contended that Comrade Kim Jong Il is under the control of international Jewish finance capital. Let's see your evidence for this claim.

[banjo_billy]

It's been my personal experience that the Marxists on this board know less about Marx than I do. Lest you think I'm boasting, I'm not. It's just been my experience.

You're right but you are not taking into consideration that Communists consider Truth to only be useful if it leads to their desired goals of power. Likewise, to a Communist, lies are just as useful as is Truth but only if it leads to their desired goals of power. So, when you are debating with Communists, you must understand that finding some truthful, good, or logical conclusion doesn't matter to them at all since their only goal is a desire for attaining political power through whatever means, whether good or evil, true or false, gives them that goal.

So, on the one hand, you are right in that most of these people are full of hot air and nothing more, but on the other hand, since they are Communists, they tell lies as a part of their method of debate. The false assertions that they make regarding Marxism may be that they are just mistaken or it may be that they are lying. You can't expect much more than this from Communists, Marxist, Stalinist, Trotskites, Menshviks, Bolsheviks, Jews or any other of this menagerie of liars, murderers, betrayers and deceivers.

[kevinwalsh]

You're right but you are not taking into consideration that Communists consider Truth to only be useful if it leads to their desired goals of power. Likewise, to a Communist, lies are just as useful as is Truth but only if it leads to their desired goals of power. So, when you are debating with Communists, you must understand that finding some truthful, good, or logical conclusion doesn't matter to them at all since their only goal is a desire for attaining political power through whatever means, whether good or evil, true or false, gives them that goal.

So, on the one hand, you are right in that most of these people are full of hot air and nothing more, but on the other hand, since they are Communists, they tell lies as a part of their method of debate. The false assertions that they make regarding Marxism may be that they are just mistaken or it may be that they are lying. You can't expect much more than this from Communists, Marxist, Stalinist, Trotskites, Menshviks, Bolsheviks, Jews or any other of this menagerie of liars, murderers, betrayers and deceivers.

This particular falacy is called "poisoning the well." Try again.

[banjo_billy]

We've heard from a lot of people in this debate, but there is one notable exception: Banjo Billy. It was he who challenged me to this debate in the first place. Banjo Billy, you have contended that Comrade Kim Jong Il is under the control of international Jewish finance capital. Let's see your evidence for this claim.

Thanks for the invite. I will cover this issue in a bit more time since there are some basic fallacies with which you have begun this thread. So, leading up to Comrade Kim-So-Very-Ill will take a bit of preparation. First, you need to get your head screwed on straight in regard to the Jews who invented and produced that great swindle known as Communism.

Let's start with a few facts and then add some more facts later. How about a quote from somebody who was there rather than from you bunch of lying wannabee revolutionary half-wits?


MIKHYL BAKUNYIN, 19th c. Russian revolutionary.

"Marx is a Jew and is surrounded by a crowd of little, more
or less intelligent, scheming, agile, speculating Jews, just as
Jews are everywhere, commercial and banking agents, writers,
politicians, correspondents for newspapers of all shades; in
short, literary brokers, just as they are financial brokers, with
one foot in the bank and the other in the socialist movement,
and their arses sitting upon the German press. They have
grabbed hold of all newspapers, and you can imagine what a
nauseating literature is the ourcome of it.

"Now this entire Jewish world, which constitutes an
exploiting sect, a people af leeches, a voracious parasite,
Marx feels an instinctive inclination and a great respect for
the Rothschilds. This may seem strange. What could there be
in common between communism and high finance? Ho ho!
The communism of Marx seeks a strong state centralization,
and where this exists there must inevitably exist a state
central bank, and where this exists, there the parasitic Jewish
nation, which speculates upon the labor of the people, will
always find the means for its existence. . .

"In reality, this would be for the proletariat a barrack
regime, under which the workingmen and the working
closely and intimately connected with one another, regardless
not only of frontiers but of political differences as well -- this
Jewish world is today largely at the disposal of Marx or
Rothschild. I am sure that, on the one hand, the Rothschilds
appreciate the merits of Marx, and that on the other hand,
women, converted into a uniform mass, would rise, fall
asleep, work and live at the beat of the drum; the privilege of
ruling would be in the hands of the skilled and the learned,
with a wide scope left for profitable crooked deals carried on
by the Jews, who would be attracted by the enormous
extension of the international speculations of the national
banks. . . "(from "Polemique contre les Juifs")

This startling piece of prediction is particularly impressive to
those who have observed the Soviet scene and noticed its
strange relationship with capitalist financiers -- overwhelmingly
Jewish -- since the revolution. The line runs from Olof Aschberg,
self described "Bolshevik banker" who ferried to Trotsky the
huge sums raised for the revolution by financiers in Europe and
America, to Armand Hammer in the 1970s, who has specialized
in multimillion-dollar trade concessions with the now supposedly
‘anti-Semitic’ commissars.

[kevinwalsh]

Thanks for the invite. I will cover this issue in a bit more time since there are some basic fallacies with which you have begun this thread. So, leading up to Comrade Kim-So-Very-Ill will take a bit of preparation. First, you need to get your head screwed on straight in regard to the Jews who invented and produced that great swindle known as Communism.

Let's start with a few facts and then add some more facts later. How about a quote from somebody who was there rather than from you bunch of lying wannabee revolutionary half-wits?


MIKHYL BAKUNYIN, 19th c. Russian revolutionary.

"Marx is a Jew and is surrounded by a crowd of little, more
or less intelligent, scheming, agile, speculating Jews, just as
Jews are everywhere, commercial and banking agents, writers,
politicians, correspondents for newspapers of all shades; in
short, literary brokers, just as they are financial brokers, with
one foot in the bank and the other in the socialist movement,
and their arses sitting upon the German press. They have
grabbed hold of all newspapers, and you can imagine what a
nauseating literature is the ourcome of it.

"Now this entire Jewish world, which constitutes an
exploiting sect, a people af leeches, a voracious parasite,
Marx feels an instinctive inclination and a great respect for
the Rothschilds. This may seem strange. What could there be
in common between communism and high finance? Ho ho!
The communism of Marx seeks a strong state centralization,
and where this exists there must inevitably exist a state
central bank, and where this exists, there the parasitic Jewish
nation, which speculates upon the labor of the people, will
always find the means for its existence. . .

"In reality, this would be for the proletariat a barrack
regime, under which the workingmen and the working
closely and intimately connected with one another, regardless
not only of frontiers but of political differences as well -- this
Jewish world is today largely at the disposal of Marx or
Rothschild. I am sure that, on the one hand, the Rothschilds
appreciate the merits of Marx, and that on the other hand,
women, converted into a uniform mass, would rise, fall
asleep, work and live at the beat of the drum; the privilege of
ruling would be in the hands of the skilled and the learned,
with a wide scope left for profitable crooked deals carried on
by the Jews, who would be attracted by the enormous
extension of the international speculations of the national
banks. . . "(from "Polemique contre les Juifs")

This startling piece of prediction is particularly impressive to
those who have observed the Soviet scene and noticed its
strange relationship with capitalist financiers -- overwhelmingly
Jewish -- since the revolution. The line runs from Olof Aschberg,
self described "Bolshevik banker" who ferried to Trotsky the
huge sums raised for the revolution by financiers in Europe and
America, to Armand Hammer in the 1970s, who has specialized
in multimillion-dollar trade concessions with the now supposedly
‘anti-Semitic’ commissars.




None of this constitutes evidence of any sort. The ravings of an anarchist do not constitute evidence.

[banjo_billy]

Well, I have plenty of data in my archives, so for any of you lying Commies who want to challege me on any of these points, I assure you-all that I will kick your asses big time.

Oh! You think I am prejudiced against the rotten Jews for no reason? Well, let's let one of the Jews have a say about this:

Stalin's Jews


We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish


Sever Plocker


"Here's a particularly forlorn historical date: Almost 90 years ago, between the 19th and 20th of December 1917, in the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.


"Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.


"We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags.


"Whole population strata were eliminated: Independent farmers, ethnic minorities, members of the bourgeoisie, senior officers, intellectuals, artists, labor movement activists, "opposition members" who were defined completely randomly, and countless members of the Communist party itself.


"In his new, highly praised book "The War of the World, "Historian Niall Ferguson writes that no revolution in the history of mankind devoured its children with the same unrestrained appetite as did the Soviet revolution. In his book on the Stalinist purges, Tel Aviv University's Dr. Igal Halfin writes that Stalinist violence was unique in that it was directed internally.

Lenin, Stalin, and their successors could not have carried out their deeds without wide-scale cooperation of disciplined "terror officials," cruel interrogators, snitches, executioners, guards, judges, perverts, and many bleeding hearts who were members of the progressive Western Left and were deceived by the Soviet regime of horror and even provided it with a kosher certificate.


"All these things are well-known to some extent or another, even though the former Soviet Union's archives have not yet been fully opened to the public. But who knows about this? Within Russia itself, very few people have been brought to justice for their crimes in the NKVD's and KGB's service. The Russian public discourse today completely ignores the question of "How could it have happened to us?" As opposed to Eastern European nations, the Russians did not settle the score with their Stalinist past.


"And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system. After Stalin no longer viewed him favorably, Yagoda was demoted and executed, and was replaced as chief hangman in 1936 by Yezhov, the "bloodthirsty dwarf."


"Yezhov was not Jewish but was blessed with an active Jewish wife. In his Book "Stalin: Court of the Red Star", Jewish historian Sebag Montefiore writes that during the darkest period of terror, when the Communist killing machine worked in full force, Stalin was surrounded by beautiful, young Jewish women.


"Stalin's close associates and loyalists included member of the Central Committee and Politburo Lazar Kaganovich. Montefiore characterizes him as the "first Stalinist" and adds that those starving to death in Ukraine, an unparalleled tragedy in the history of human kind aside from the Nazi horrors and Mao's terror in China, did not move Kaganovich.


"Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We'll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD's special department and the organization's chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.

"In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. They too, of course, were gradually eliminated in the next purges. In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as a "carnival of mass murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil." Turns out that Jews too, when they become captivated by messianic ideology, can become great murderers, among the greatest known by modern history.

"The Jews active in official communist terror apparatuses (In the Soviet Union and abroad) and who at times led them, did not do this, obviously, as Jews, but rather, as Stalinists, communists, and "Soviet people." Therefore, we find it easy to ignore their origin and "play dumb": What do we have to do with them? But let's not forget them. My own view is different. I find it unacceptable that a person will be considered a member of the Jewish people when he does great things, but not considered part of our people when he does amazingly despicable things.

Even if we deny it, we cannot escape the Jewishness of "our hangmen," who served the Red Terror with loyalty and dedication from its establishment. After all, others will always remind us of their origin."

[banjo_billy]

"Oh, no!" Some of you Commies will say, "that is just the bad old days. Communism is so much nicer today. No Jews anywhere!"

Well how about a list of who runs Moscow as of 2007:




The Jews Running Moscow (as of March, 2007)

Mayor - Yu.Luzhkov(Kats) (Jew)

Vice- mayor - is rebuilding Communism (Communist)

The substitutes of the chairman of the government of Moscow - Ordzhonikidze (Georgian)

Foreign policy - Yastrzhembskiy (Polish Jew)

Small and average business - Joffe (Jew)

Construction sphere - Resin (Jew)

Financial control - Shore (Jew)

Press- service - Tsoy (Korean)

The Prefect of the Center of Moscow - musician (Jew)

Managing the matters of city hall - Shakhnovskiy (Jew)

TEK of Moscow - Lapir (Jew)

Transport and connection - Korsak (Jew)

Urban development - Topel'son (Jew)

Non-budgetary funds - Krasnyanskiy and Sternfeld (Jews)

Construction resources - Rizel' (Jew)

Interregional connections - Bakirov (Azerbaijanian)

Taxes and collections - Bilberries (Jew)

Sport - Kofman (Jew)

The regular Advisers of mayor - Schneider, Norkin, Perelygin (all Jews)

Nearest Adherents to the Notion "fatherland" - Kobzon and Khazanov (Jews)

The Leader of the Selective Staff of the "fatherland" - Boos (Jew)

Candidate in the list "fatherlands" - Primakov (Finkelstein) - the Jew

And this does not even mention the fact that the present leader of Russia is a Jew or that six of the seven billionaire oligarchs are Jews who hire more Jews to work for their criminal looting of Russia.

And where did they get the money to buy up Russian manufacturing and raw materials? From the International Jew bankers. Whether they claim to be communists or capitalists, they are all thieving Jews.

Anyway, you Commies and deluded fools think about what your reply will be. It's time for me to get a good night's sleep and I will beat the hell out of you tomorrow. You lying bunch of Commies and kikes don't have a chance. Your days are done.

[banjo_billy]

This particular falacy is called "poisoning the well." Try again.

Is this all that you have? A lie in an attempt to cover up your lies and half-truths? Any fallacy you will find in your own arguments.

[kevinwalsh]

Is this all that you have? A lie in an attempt to cover up your lies and half-truths? Any fallacy you will find in your own arguments.

All you are doing is posturing and posting unsubstantiated rants. You aren't debating. You haven't presented any real evidence.

[kevinwalsh]

"Oh, no!" Some of you Commies will say, "that is just the bad old days. Communism is so much nicer today. No Jews anywhere!"

Well how about a list of who runs Moscow as of 2007:




The Jews Running Moscow (as of March, 2007)

Mayor - Yu.Luzhkov(Kats) (Jew)

Vice- mayor - is rebuilding Communism (Communist)

The substitutes of the chairman of the government of Moscow - Ordzhonikidze (Georgian)

Foreign policy - Yastrzhembskiy (Polish Jew)

Small and average business - Joffe (Jew)

Construction sphere - Resin (Jew)

Financial control - Shore (Jew)

Press- service - Tsoy (Korean)

The Prefect of the Center of Moscow - musician (Jew)

Managing the matters of city hall - Shakhnovskiy (Jew)

TEK of Moscow - Lapir (Jew)

Transport and connection - Korsak (Jew)

Urban development - Topel'son (Jew)

Non-budgetary funds - Krasnyanskiy and Sternfeld (Jews)

Construction resources - Rizel' (Jew)

Interregional connections - Bakirov (Azerbaijanian)

Taxes and collections - Bilberries (Jew)

Sport - Kofman (Jew)

The regular Advisers of mayor - Schneider, Norkin, Perelygin (all Jews)

Nearest Adherents to the Notion "fatherland" - Kobzon and Khazanov (Jews)

The Leader of the Selective Staff of the "fatherland" - Boos (Jew)

Candidate in the list "fatherlands" - Primakov (Finkelstein) - the Jew

And this does not even mention the fact that the present leader of Russia is a Jew or that six of the seven billionaire oligarchs are Jews who hire more Jews to work for their criminal looting of Russia.

And where did they get the money to buy up Russian manufacturing and raw materials? From the International Jew bankers. Whether they claim to be communists or capitalists, they are all thieving Jews.

Anyway, you Commies and deluded fools think about what your reply will be. It's time for me to get a good night's sleep and I will beat the hell out of you tomorrow. You lying bunch of Commies and kikes don't have a chance. Your days are done.


If you haven't notice, Russia is no longer Communist. These Jews are running a capitalist economy.

[Joe McCarthy]

Russian marxists, of course, didn’t hold the unified position on Lenin’s thesis in “What Is To Be Done”, which is what later led to the Bolsheviks – Mensheviks split.

Lenin, in fact, was in the minority, at the time. Even Trotsky criticized his work.

In light of the reality of the Soviet Union, The Bolshevik-Menshevik split seems very inconsequential.

[Kodos]

To the extent jews are subversive or in parasitic professions, there are easily other ways to identify them other then being jews.

Hence targetting jews per se isn't useful.

[banjo_billy]

None of this constitutes evidence of any sort. The ravings of an anarchist do not constitute evidence.

A lying betrayor like you is deciding what is evidence and what is not? Okay, the name of the thread is: "Is Communism Jewish?" No problem. I'll give you enough evidence to choke on.

How some of you lying Communists can face yourselves in the mirror in the morning, astounds me. Living your lives promoting and defending one of the world's biggest Jewish frauds and swindles, using lies and deceits to defend your indefensible positions, and after having all the proof in the world shoved into your faces, starting all over again with your lies and claiming that proof is not proof enough for you. You hypocritical phoney bastards!!!

Okay, Kevin Walsh and all the rest of you demented, phoney f**kers. You want proof? No problem.

[banjo_billy]

Jew Terrorism
"In every city I have resided in are simply robbing, murdering, and burning.
Practically every business is ruined. Seventy-five percent of all shops closed.
Private banks seized and funds confiscated. Courts of justice abolished and
public-school education reduced to minimum. Foreign commerce nationalized.
Landed property both large and small seized and divided. Factories nationalized
and workmen paid for doing nothing. Currency system reduced to printing
unlimited quantities of worthless paper. Not content with ruining Russia in a
disgraceful treaty with Germany, Bolsheviks are now permitting Germany,
wherever possible, to buy up all raw materials and food-stuffs for shipment to
Germany while Russians starve. Fifty percent of Soviet government in each town
consists of Jews of worst type, many of whom are anarchists.

"It would be grave mistake on our part to officially recognize Bolsheviks
who scarcely represent 8 percent of Russian population and in many places, as
Irkutsk for example, depend upon armed prisoners of war to keep them in power.
I recommend intervention on part of Allies in such a way as to enable the real
people of Russia to rally to Ally standard and fight the common enemy. Best
element in Russia will never rally to Bolsheviks even it they should declare war
on Germany. The great mass of Russian people prefer even German tyranny
to Bolshevik terrorism."
U.S. Government Printing Office.
"Papers Relating to the Foreign Relations of the United States, 1918,




"Russia", Volume II, page-240

[banjo_billy]

"Document No. 1, Circular 18, February 1914
"Moreover, the managements of banking institutions
are urged emphatically to make provisions for very close and
absolutely secret relations being established with Finnish and
American banks. In this direction the Ministry begs to recommend the
Swedish Nya Banken in Stockholm; the banking office of Furstenburg;
the commercial company Waldemar Hansen, in Copenhagen, as
concerns which are maintaining relations with Russia.

"Note: This is outline of basics financial structure begun
February 1914, five months before war was launched and still in operation;
notice reappearance in subsequent Lenin messages, towns Lulea and Vardo,
likewise reference to American banks. Olof Aschberg, one of the heads of the
Nya Banken, came to Petrograd months ago and boasted that N. B. was
the Bolsheviki bank. He was overheard by one of our own group. He secured
from Smolny permit export several hundred thousand gallons oil. Opening at
Hotel Europe head quarters, where both Mirback and Kaiserling of the German
Commission have been entertained, he negotiated with the State Bank
February 1 last, contract for buying cash rubles and establishing foreign
credit for Russian Government and is opening others with the John MacGregor
Grant Co., exporting concern, which it finances in Sweden and which is
financed in America by the Guarantee Trust Co. We have no information
reflecting on last mentioned company. Furstenberg is now at Smolny under
the name of Ganetski, is one of inner group and is likely soon to be placed in
charge State Bank. Aschberg now in Stockholm but returning. The material
in this and other comments is independent of the documents and accurate
on fact statements."
U.S. Government Printing Office.
"Papers Relating to the Foreign Relations of the United States, 1918,
"Russia"

[The above document clearly shows how the Jews financed the
Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. All of these banks and Trust
Companies were Jewish owned and Jewish controlled.]

[banjo_billy]

"Zenzinov and Lunacharski got in touch with Imperial Bank of Germany through
the bankers Rubenstein, Max Warburg and Parvus. [All Jews].

"Note: Lunacharski is the present People's Commissioner of Education.
Zenzinov is not a Bolshevik, but a right Social Revolutionist and in the discard,
whereabouts unknown. Parvus and Warburg both figure in the Lenin and Trotsky
documents. Parvus is, at Copenhagen. Warburg chiefly works from Stockholm.
[where USA had Jewish Ambassador Ira Nelson Morris from July, 1914-1922]

U.S. Government Printing Office.
"Papers Relating to the Foreign Relations of the United States, 1918,



"Russia", Volume I, page-374

[banjo_billy]

The Kaiser
Henry Ford's "Dearborn Independent" carried this article,
July 9, 1921:

''It is a most significant fact that, as in Washington, the
most constant and privileged visitors to the White House
were Jews, so in Berlin the only private telephone wire to the
Kaiser was owned by Walter Rathenau [who later wrote the
constitution of the post-war Jew-controlled Weimar
''Republic"]. Not even the Crown Prince could reach the
Kaiser except through the ordinary telephone connections ....
''It was a family enterprise, this international campaign.
Jacob Schiff swore to destroy Russia. Paul M. Warburg was his
brother-in-law; Felix Warburg was his son-in-law. Max
Warburg, of Hamburg, banker of the Bolsheviks, was thus
brother-in-law to Jacob Schiff's wife and daughter ....
"Max Warburg represents the family in its native land.
Max Warburg has as much to do with the German war
government as his family and financial colleagues had to do
with the United States war government.

"As has been recounted in the press the world over, the
brother from America and the brother from Germany both
met at Paris as government representatives in determining
the peace. There were so many Jews in the German delegation
that it was known by the term 'kosher,' also as 'the Warburg
delegation,' and there were so many Jews in the American
delegation that the delegates from the minor countries of
Europe looked upon the United States as a Jewish country
which through unheard-of-generosity had elected a non-Jew as
its president.... The Jews had several objectives in the war,
and one of them was to 'Get Russia'.... In this work Max
Warburg was a factor. His bank is noted in a dispatch
published by the United States government as being one
whence funds were forwarded to Trotsky for use in destroying
Russia. Always against Russia, not for German reasons, but for
Jewish reasons, which in this particular instance coincided.
Warburg and Trotsky -- against Russia! While Otto Kahn,
another partner in Kuhn, Loeb & Co. denounced 'pro-German
propaganda,' his partner Paul was playing the German
symphony string! It is a great international orchestra, this
Jewish financial firm; it can play the Star Spangled Banner,
Die Wacht am Rhein, the Marseillaise, and God Save the King
in one harmonious rendering, paying obsequious attention to
the prejudices of each.''
Thus spoke the Ford paper in 1921.
-- Dilling, page-80

[banjo_billy]

VLADIMIR LENIN, Founder of Bolshevik Communist (From an article in Northern
Pravda, October-December 1913, quoted in Lenin on the Jewish Question, page 10)

"There the great and universally progressive features of Jewish culture have
made themselves clearly felt: its internationalism, its responsiveness of the
advanced movements of our times (the percentage of Jews in democratic and
proletarian movements is everywhere higher than the percentage of Jews in the
general population).

"...Those Jewish Marxists who join up in the international Marxist
organizations with the Russian, Lithuanian, Ukrainian and other workers,
adding their might (both in Russian and in Jewish) to the creation of an
international culture of the working class movement. are continuing the best traditions of Jewry."

[banjo_billy]

Russian President Vladimir Putin Exposes Jews As The Greatest Mass
Murderers Of All Times


"Every ordinary Russian faced a Jew as his judge and as his executioner.
Where ever the Russian went, he met a Jew in a superior position to him."


JTA - Jewish Telegraph Agency
News at a Glance
March 04, 2001 1:48:01 PM ET


An editorial in the first issue of a new extremist magazine in Russia
accuses "Judeo-Bolsheviks" of having killed millions of ethnic Russians.
The inaugural issue of The Admiralty, published last week in St.
Petersburg, is prefaced with a greeting by a regional representative of
Russian President Vladimir Putin.

----------

56 Million Dead

The Bolshevik's cemetery ... the greatest mass murder in the history of
mankind.


Israel Nachrichten (Israel News), September 10,1992

It all begun in 1917:

"Every ordinary Russian faced a Jew as his judge and as his executioner.
Where ever the Russian went, he met a Jew in a superior position to him."

"If for the tsar regime the officer, the aristrocative official or the
bureaucrat in uniform was typical, then in the new bolshevist revolutionary
power the Jewish (lettic) commissioner, rarely speaking Russian, leather
jacket wearing and machine gun carrying, became a typical occurance in the
street. (45) ...

"But anyhow, outbreaks of destructive, criminal and pathological
potentials, which had accumulated within the Jewish community, turned out
in motion in the first years of the Soviet Revolution ...The problem was,
Jews had taken power for the first time in Russian history. And for the
first time they appeared not as victims, but as offenders... However, the
horror of the revolution, of the civil war and the repressions following
cannot be seperated from the reign of terror, carried out by the Jewish
commissioners. Quite typical were Jewish revolutionaries like Jakov
Bljumkin, a leftist socialist, who in 1918 shot the German Ambassador von
Mirbach. This neurotic adventurer had been accepted by the Tcheka as an
reward for his services to the Bolshevics. Nadesha Mandelstam stipulated in
her memoirs how Bljumkin showed blank death sentence forms to a horrorfied
crowd in a Kiev Café. He boasted, that he was able to insert any name he
wanted onto the preprinted death forms. Mandelstam described him as a
mixture of murderer and intellectual - not a typical character of that era.
(47) ...

"To an impartial person like the historian Boris Paramanow, living in New
York, the Jewish presence of power was so impressive, that he asked
himself, whether the promotion of the Jews into leading positions had been
a ‘gigantic provocation’ to the Russian people. (48) ...

"The eager participation of Bolshevic Jews in the subjugation and the
destruction of Russia was disproportionate. It was a sin which carried its
own retaliation (58)... There are Jews now everywhere and at all levels of
power [after the revolution of 1917). The Russian people saw the Jews in
charge of the Tsaristic City of Moscow, where the new soviet power was
concentrated and also as the commanders in the Red Army ... (58) ...

"Every ordinary Russian faced a Jew as his judge and as his executioner.
Where ever the Russian went, he met a Jew in a superior position to him. It
is no wonder, if the Russians nowadays compare their situation with the
past, come to the conclusion that the present power is again Jewish and
therefor so horrible." (60)

Sonja Margolina, (Das Ende der Lügen) The End of the Lies, Siedler
Publishing House, Berlin 1992 (numbers in brackets refer to page numbers in
the book).
----------

Sat., November 29, 1997:


"The most appalling genocide was not committed by the Nazis but by the
Communists. And the killing goes on. Yet leading British academics are
still preaching the virtues of Marxism ... The bottom line, then is close
to 100 million dead."

----------

(London) 8.12.1996, Section 7, page 2
Jew praise

Although Lenin was a political monster, he was no enemy of the Jews. He was
aware of his partly Jewish origin, many of his close associates were Jews,
he often spoke of Jews in favourable terms and he opposed anti-Jewish
attitudes.

Andrew Wilski, Tunbridge Wells, Kent

----------

"Lazar Kaganovich's rage aimed at first on the class enemy, the kulaks
(peasants). He succeeded to exterminate the entire farming and peasant
population in the Soviet Union"

Der Spiegel, 35/1991, page 151

(Lazar Kaganovich, Stalin's Jew for implementing the Holocaust on Russia's
and the Ukraine's rural population. He planned and organised a genocide on
about twenty million peasants. He is the biggest individual mass murder in
the history of mankind.

----------

"Lavrentija Berija composed the resolution to murder 27,500 Polish
officers, soldiers and civilians. When the members of the Polit-Buro
gathered on March 5, 1940, Berija’s resolution was adopted and subsequently
carried out in Katyn and other places." Der Spiegel, 8/1996, page 147.

Along with most members of the Polit-Buro, Berija was also a Jew. The
International Military Trubunal of Nuremberg charged the German Wehrmacht
and the SS for the Katyn-Massacre. The German defendants were not permitted
to defend themselves against the Katyn indictment as they were not allowed
to produce evidence against Auschwitz accusations.

Katyn - village, W European Russia, W of Smolensk near the Belarus border.
It was occupied by the Germans in World War II. In 1943 the German
government announced that the mass graves of 4,250 (sic) Polish officers
had been found in a nearby forest and blamed Soviet forces for the
massacre. The Soviet government asserted that the Poles had been killed by
the Germans. In 1990 the USSR admitted that Soviet secret police had killed
the Poles, and in 1992 Russian officials released documents that showed
STALIN had ordered the killings.
(http://www.encyclopedia.com/articles/06863.html)

----------

Ilya Ehrenburg, Stalin's Jewish propagandist for genocide!

"Kill, kill, you brave Red Army soldiers, kill. There is nothing in the
Germans that is innocent. Obey the instructions of comrade Stalin and stamp
the fascistic beast in its cave. Break with force the racial arrogance of
the Germanic women. Take them as your legal loot. Kill, you brave soldiers
of the Red Army, kill!" (Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Frankfurt,
February 28, 1995 - page 7


The above is one of the many thousands of genocide orders from Stalin's
official Jewish war propagandist. With these kind of orders of the day,
Ehrenburg spurred the Red Army soldiers on their way to Germany. They
murdered in the eastern territorries of Germany, which they controlled and
thanks to his effective propaganda of "humanity", nearly three million
women, children and old people perished in the hands of his killing hordes.
Ehrenburg is especially revered in Israel and his memory is still kept in
the highest esteem by World-Jewry.

[banjo_billy]

Okay, Kevin Walsh, you Commie punk. Let's hear what you have to say.

[kevinwalsh]

Jew Terrorism
"In every city I have resided in are simply robbing, murdering, and burning.
Practically every business is ruined. Seventy-five percent of all shops closed.
Private banks seized and funds confiscated. Courts of justice abolished and
public-school education reduced to minimum. Foreign commerce nationalized.
Landed property both large and small seized and divided. Factories nationalized
and workmen paid for doing nothing. Currency system reduced to printing
unlimited quantities of worthless paper. Not content with ruining Russia in a
disgraceful treaty with Germany, Bolsheviks are now permitting Germany,
wherever possible, to buy up all raw materials and food-stuffs for shipment to
Germany while Russians starve. Fifty percent of Soviet government in each town
consists of Jews of worst type, many of whom are anarchists.

"It would be grave mistake on our part to officially recognize Bolsheviks
who scarcely represent 8 percent of Russian population and in many places, as
Irkutsk for example, depend upon armed prisoners of war to keep them in power.
I recommend intervention on part of Allies in such a way as to enable the real
people of Russia to rally to Ally standard and fight the common enemy. Best
element in Russia will never rally to Bolsheviks even it they should declare war
on Germany. The great mass of Russian people prefer even German tyranny
to Bolshevik terrorism."
U.S. Government Printing Office.
"Papers Relating to the Foreign Relations of the United States, 1918,




"Russia", Volume II, page-240


No evidence here; just unsubstantiated allegations.

[kevinwalsh]

"Zenzinov and Lunacharski got in touch with Imperial Bank of Germany through
the bankers Rubenstein, Max Warburg and Parvus. [All Jews].

"Note: Lunacharski is the present People's Commissioner of Education.
Zenzinov is not a Bolshevik, but a right Social Revolutionist and in the discard,
whereabouts unknown. Parvus and Warburg both figure in the Lenin and Trotsky
documents. Parvus is, at Copenhagen. Warburg chiefly works from Stockholm.
[where USA had Jewish Ambassador Ira Nelson Morris from July, 1914-1922]

U.S. Government Printing Office.
"Papers Relating to the Foreign Relations of the United States, 1918,


"Russia", Volume I, page-374


So an anti-Bolshevik Jew may have gotten in touch with a banker? (assuming the U.S. Government Printing Office always tells the truth; it's nice for an anti-Jew to have ZOG on this side) What else is new?

[kevinwalsh]

"Document No. 1, Circular 18, February 1914
"Moreover, the managements of banking institutions
are urged emphatically to make provisions for very close and
absolutely secret relations being established with Finnish and
American banks. In this direction the Ministry begs to recommend the
Swedish Nya Banken in Stockholm; the banking office of Furstenburg;
the commercial company Waldemar Hansen, in Copenhagen, as
concerns which are maintaining relations with Russia.

"Note: This is outline of basics financial structure begun
February 1914, five months before war was launched and still in operation;
notice reappearance in subsequent Lenin messages, towns Lulea and Vardo,
likewise reference to American banks. Olof Aschberg, one of the heads of the
Nya Banken, came to Petrograd months ago and boasted that N. B. was
the Bolsheviki bank. He was overheard by one of our own group. He secured
from Smolny permit export several hundred thousand gallons oil. Opening at
Hotel Europe head quarters, where both Mirback and Kaiserling of the German
Commission have been entertained, he negotiated with the State Bank
February 1 last, contract for buying cash rubles and establishing foreign
credit for Russian Government and is opening others with the John MacGregor
Grant Co., exporting concern, which it finances in Sweden and which is
financed in America by the Guarantee Trust Co. We have no information
reflecting on last mentioned company. Furstenberg is now at Smolny under
the name of Ganetski, is one of inner group and is likely soon to be placed in
charge State Bank. Aschberg now in Stockholm but returning. The material
in this and other comments is independent of the documents and accurate
on fact statements."
U.S. Government Printing Office.
"Papers Relating to the Foreign Relations of the United States, 1918,
"Russia"

[The above document clearly shows how the Jews financed the
Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. All of these banks and Trust
Companies were Jewish owned and Jewish controlled.]






This is merely an unproven rumour repeated by ZOG

[kevinwalsh]

The Kaiser
Henry Ford's "Dearborn Independent" carried this article,
July 9, 1921:

''It is a most significant fact that, as in Washington, the
most constant and privileged visitors to the White House
were Jews, so in Berlin the only private telephone wire to the
Kaiser was owned by Walter Rathenau [who later wrote the
constitution of the post-war Jew-controlled Weimar
''Republic"]. Not even the Crown Prince could reach the
Kaiser except through the ordinary telephone connections ....
''It was a family enterprise, this international campaign.
Jacob Schiff swore to destroy Russia. Paul M. Warburg was his
brother-in-law; Felix Warburg was his son-in-law. Max
Warburg, of Hamburg, banker of the Bolsheviks, was thus
brother-in-law to Jacob Schiff's wife and daughter ....
"Max Warburg represents the family in its native land.
Max Warburg has as much to do with the German war
government as his family and financial colleagues had to do
with the United States war government.

"As has been recounted in the press the world over, the
brother from America and the brother from Germany both
met at Paris as government representatives in determining
the peace. There were so many Jews in the German delegation
that it was known by the term 'kosher,' also as 'the Warburg
delegation,' and there were so many Jews in the American
delegation that the delegates from the minor countries of
Europe looked upon the United States as a Jewish country
which through unheard-of-generosity had elected a non-Jew as
its president.... The Jews had several objectives in the war,
and one of them was to 'Get Russia'.... In this work Max
Warburg was a factor. His bank is noted in a dispatch
published by the United States government as being one
whence funds were forwarded to Trotsky for use in destroying
Russia. Always against Russia, not for German reasons, but for
Jewish reasons, which in this particular instance coincided.
Warburg and Trotsky -- against Russia! While Otto Kahn,
another partner in Kuhn, Loeb & Co. denounced 'pro-German
propaganda,' his partner Paul was playing the German
symphony string! It is a great international orchestra, this
Jewish financial firm; it can play the Star Spangled Banner,
Die Wacht am Rhein, the Marseillaise, and God Save the King
in one harmonious rendering, paying obsequious attention to
the prejudices of each.''
Thus spoke the Ford paper in 1921.
-- Dilling, page-80


I don't deny for a moment Trotsky and the Jews wanted to "get Russia." That has nothing to do with Communism allegedly being Jewish. As to "getting Russia," the German Romanov family was doing a far better job at it than any Jews could ever dream of doing, ironically by coercing the Russian masses to kill their fellow Germans, led by the first cousin of Nicholas II, Wilhelm II.

Interesting that you mention Ford. He was part of a joint venture with the Soviets. There was a Ford auto plant in Moscow during the 1920s. Apparently not every capitalist who dealt with the Soviets was Jewish or even pro-Jewish.

[kevinwalsh]

VLADIMIR LENIN, Founder of Bolshevik Communist (From an article in Northern
Pravda, October-December 1913, quoted in Lenin on the Jewish Question, page 10)

"There the great and universally progressive features of Jewish culture have
made themselves clearly felt: its internationalism, its responsiveness of the
advanced movements of our times (the percentage of Jews in democratic and
proletarian movements is everywhere higher than the percentage of Jews in the
general population).

"...Those Jewish Marxists who join up in the international Marxist
organizations with the Russian, Lithuanian, Ukrainian and other workers,
adding their might (both in Russian and in Jewish) to the creation of an
international culture of the working class movement. are continuing the best traditions of Jewry."



Lenin clearly wished to win over Russia's Jews and at times used flattering language, but this in no way indicates that Communism is Jewish.

[kevinwalsh]

Russian President Vladimir Putin Exposes Jews As The Greatest Mass
Murderers Of All Times


"Every ordinary Russian faced a Jew as his judge and as his executioner.
Where ever the Russian went, he met a Jew in a superior position to him."


JTA - Jewish Telegraph Agency
News at a Glance
March 04, 2001 1:48:01 PM ET


An editorial in the first issue of a new extremist magazine in Russia
accuses "Judeo-Bolsheviks" of having killed millions of ethnic Russians.
The inaugural issue of The Admiralty, published last week in St.
Petersburg, is prefaced with a greeting by a regional representative of
Russian President Vladimir Putin.

----------

56 Million Dead

The Bolshevik's cemetery ... the greatest mass murder in the history of
mankind.


Israel Nachrichten (Israel News), September 10,1992

It all begun in 1917:

"Every ordinary Russian faced a Jew as his judge and as his executioner.
Where ever the Russian went, he met a Jew in a superior position to him."

"If for the tsar regime the officer, the aristrocative official or the
bureaucrat in uniform was typical, then in the new bolshevist revolutionary
power the Jewish (lettic) commissioner, rarely speaking Russian, leather
jacket wearing and machine gun carrying, became a typical occurance in the
street. (45) ...

"But anyhow, outbreaks of destructive, criminal and pathological
potentials, which had accumulated within the Jewish community, turned out
in motion in the first years of the Soviet Revolution ...The problem was,
Jews had taken power for the first time in Russian history. And for the
first time they appeared not as victims, but as offenders... However, the
horror of the revolution, of the civil war and the repressions following
cannot be seperated from the reign of terror, carried out by the Jewish
commissioners. Quite typical were Jewish revolutionaries like Jakov
Bljumkin, a leftist socialist, who in 1918 shot the German Ambassador von
Mirbach. This neurotic adventurer had been accepted by the Tcheka as an
reward for his services to the Bolshevics. Nadesha Mandelstam stipulated in
her memoirs how Bljumkin showed blank death sentence forms to a horrorfied
crowd in a Kiev Café. He boasted, that he was able to insert any name he
wanted onto the preprinted death forms. Mandelstam described him as a
mixture of murderer and intellectual - not a typical character of that era.
(47) ...

"To an impartial person like the historian Boris Paramanow, living in New
York, the Jewish presence of power was so impressive, that he asked
himself, whether the promotion of the Jews into leading positions had been
a ‘gigantic provocation’ to the Russian people. (48) ...

"The eager participation of Bolshevic Jews in the subjugation and the
destruction of Russia was disproportionate. It was a sin which carried its
own retaliation (58)... There are Jews now everywhere and at all levels of
power [after the revolution of 1917). The Russian people saw the Jews in
charge of the Tsaristic City of Moscow, where the new soviet power was
concentrated and also as the commanders in the Red Army ... (58) ...

"Every ordinary Russian faced a Jew as his judge and as his executioner.
Where ever the Russian went, he met a Jew in a superior position to him. It
is no wonder, if the Russians nowadays compare their situation with the
past, come to the conclusion that the present power is again Jewish and
therefor so horrible." (60)

Sonja Margolina, (Das Ende der Lügen) The End of the Lies, Siedler
Publishing House, Berlin 1992 (numbers in brackets refer to page numbers in
the book).
----------

Sat., November 29, 1997:


"The most appalling genocide was not committed by the Nazis but by the
Communists. And the killing goes on. Yet leading British academics are
still preaching the virtues of Marxism ... The bottom line, then is close
to 100 million dead."

----------

(London) 8.12.1996, Section 7, page 2
Jew praise

Although Lenin was a political monster, he was no enemy of the Jews. He was
aware of his partly Jewish origin, many of his close associates were Jews,
he often spoke of Jews in favourable terms and he opposed anti-Jewish
attitudes.

Andrew Wilski, Tunbridge Wells, Kent

----------

"Lazar Kaganovich's rage aimed at first on the class enemy, the kulaks
(peasants). He succeeded to exterminate the entire farming and peasant
population in the Soviet Union"

Der Spiegel, 35/1991, page 151

(Lazar Kaganovich, Stalin's Jew for implementing the Holocaust on Russia's
and the Ukraine's rural population. He planned and organised a genocide on
about twenty million peasants. He is the biggest individual mass murder in
the history of mankind.

----------

"Lavrentija Berija composed the resolution to murder 27,500 Polish
officers, soldiers and civilians. When the members of the Polit-Buro
gathered on March 5, 1940, Berija’s resolution was adopted and subsequently
carried out in Katyn and other places." Der Spiegel, 8/1996, page 147.

Along with most members of the Polit-Buro, Berija was also a Jew. The
International Military Trubunal of Nuremberg charged the German Wehrmacht
and the SS for the Katyn-Massacre. The German defendants were not permitted
to defend themselves against the Katyn indictment as they were not allowed
to produce evidence against Auschwitz accusations.

Katyn - village, W European Russia, W of Smolensk near the Belarus border.
It was occupied by the Germans in World War II. In 1943 the German
government announced that the mass graves of 4,250 (sic) Polish officers
had been found in a nearby forest and blamed Soviet forces for the
massacre. The Soviet government asserted that the Poles had been killed by
the Germans. In 1990 the USSR admitted that Soviet secret police had killed
the Poles, and in 1992 Russian officials released documents that showed
STALIN had ordered the killings.
(http://www.encyclopedia.com/articles/06863.html)

----------

Ilya Ehrenburg, Stalin's Jewish propagandist for genocide!

"Kill, kill, you brave Red Army soldiers, kill. There is nothing in the
Germans that is innocent. Obey the instructions of comrade Stalin and stamp
the fascistic beast in its cave. Break with force the racial arrogance of
the Germanic women. Take them as your legal loot. Kill, you brave soldiers
of the Red Army, kill!" (Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Frankfurt,
February 28, 1995 - page 7


The above is one of the many thousands of genocide orders from Stalin's
official Jewish war propagandist. With these kind of orders of the day,
Ehrenburg spurred the Red Army soldiers on their way to Germany. They
murdered in the eastern territorries of Germany, which they controlled and
thanks to his effective propaganda of "humanity", nearly three million
women, children and old people perished in the hands of his killing hordes.
Ehrenburg is especially revered in Israel and his memory is still kept in
the highest esteem by World-Jewry.




Putin, as he often does, was talking out his ass. He also lied about President Hussein during the recent Georgia-Ossetia war. His ravings prove nothing.

[kevinwalsh]

Okay, Kevin Walsh, you Commie punk. Let's hear what you have to say.

Apart from using quotations from ZOG and other unsubstantiated allegations as "proof," you have not made any attempt to address your original contention: That Comrade Kim Jong Il is controlled by international Jewish finance capital.

[Joe McCarthy]

You're right but you are not taking into consideration that Communists consider Truth to only be useful if it leads to their desired goals of power. Likewise, to a Communist, lies are just as useful as is Truth but only if it leads to their desired goals of power. So, when you are debating with Communists, you must understand that finding some truthful, good, or logical conclusion doesn't matter to them at all since their only goal is a desire for attaining political power through whatever means, whether good or evil, true or false, gives them that goal.

So, on the one hand, you are right in that most of these people are full of hot air and nothing more, but on the other hand, since they are Communists, they tell lies as a part of their method of debate. The false assertions that they make regarding Marxism may be that they are just mistaken or it may be that they are lying. You can't expect much more than this from Communists, Marxist, Stalinist, Trotskites, Menshviks, Bolsheviks, Jews or any other of this menagerie of liars, murderers, betrayers and deceivers.

Personally, I don't take most (or all) of the 'Communists' on this board seriously. Imo most (or all) of them are racialists who have adopted an extreme anti-capitalist line, and in a desperate attempt to find a coherent political ideology, have adopted Marxism and Soviet fetishism. This of course is a fool's game, as Communism is a stinking corpse of an ideology, and has no chance of making inroads into convincing whites that pro-whites are sensible. Quite the contrary. It makes us look even nuttier than before.

It'd be nice if just once some of these clowns would look to mainstream thinkers and attempt to reinvent their approach through the prism of moderate political discourse. At least then we'd be speaking the language of the average person. Hopping from Nazism to Communism, to God knows what gets us nowhere.

[banjo_billy]

Apart from using quotations from ZOG and other unsubstantiated allegations as "proof," you have not made any attempt to address your original contention: That Comrade Kim Jong Il is controlled by international Jewish finance capital.

Your lies just get in the way. In fact, you are so full of lies that you really can't see the difference between truth and lies. A case in point, you claim that the quotations are from ZOG (Zionist Occupation Government). If that was true, why would the kikes claim that Communism is Jewish? :) So, in your panic to escape the trap I have set for you, you point your fingers even at your allies!!!:rofl: Also, in regard to what you dismiss as "unsubstantiated allegations", you show the shallowness of your intelligence and sources. Don't you know that "unsubstantiated allegations" are proven to be substantiated facts when they are cross-referenced for accuracy? This is what the small selection of articles that I have provided do. They are from various creditable sources and they all agree in their observtions.

I have a huge number of sources in my data base that prove that Communism is Jewish. Should I fill this thread with these accounts? First hand, eye-witness accounts, government reports, historical data which you seem to dismiss with the usual Commie blather that actually says, "It doesn't matter what proofs you offer, my tactic is to deny them all and win through repeated denial to bolster up my indefensible position."

You even started this thread by lying about and downplaying the murders committed by the Commuists. There are many sources that show the fallacy of your statements but even according to The Black Book of Communism (written by Communists), Communism is responsible for the murder of 100 Million people worldwide.

Your ridiculous defence of this murderous, Jewish swindle can only be explained in two ways; either you are (1) a Jew who is tryng to hide Jewish Crimes Against Humanity or (2) you are a misguided fool who has been deceived by the kikes into believing what you do.

I don't see of what benefit it is to discuss how Comrade Kim So-Very-Ill is a puppet of Jewish International finance since even the basic proofs that Communism is Jewish, is denied by you. I can give you proofs until you choke to death -- certainly proofs that are far more authoritative than your sophmoric denial of them. But to what avail?

On the other side of the coin, it is impossible for you to prove that Communism is not Jewish since nearly every player of import was a Jew or was supported by Jews. So, either way, I win.

[kevinwalsh]

Your lies just get in the way. In fact, you are so full of lies that you really can't see the difference between truth and lies. A case in point, you claim that the quotations are from ZOG (Zionist Occupation Government). If that was true, why would the kikes claim that Communism is Jewish? :) So, in your panic to escape the trap I have set for you, you point your fingers even at your allies!!!:rofl: Also, in regard to what you dismiss as "unsubstantiated allegations", you show the shallowness of your intelligence and sources. Don't you know that "unsubstantiated allegations" are proven to be substantiated facts when they are cross-referenced for accuracy? This is what the small selection of articles that I have provided do. They are from various creditable sources and they all agree in their observtions.

No, these sources discuss entirely different things and are in many cases the same source (U.S. Government Printing Office)

I have a huge number of sources in my data base that prove that Communism is Jewish. Should I fill this thread with these accounts? First hand, eye-witness accounts, government reports, historical data which you seem to dismiss with the usual Commie blather that actually says, "It doesn't matter what proofs you offer, my tactic is to deny them all and win through repeated denial to bolster up my indefensible position."

If any of the sources contained real evidence, I would say present it. Thus far none of them has, and you are wasting my time and the time of the other readers. Your tactic is to quote a large number of people repeating the same lie and hope that will make people think it is the truth. It's rather reminiscent of the Holocaust hoaxers.

You even started this thread by lying about and downplaying the murders committed by the Commuists. There are many sources that show the fallacy of your statements but even according to The Black Book of Communism (written by Communists), Communism is responsible for the murder of 100 Million people worldwide.

The Black Book of Communism is merely an anthology of existing Cold War lies and meaningless statistical projections, which I have already addressed in this debate (such as how J. Arch Getty's actual research into the Soviet archives failed to back the clames of Solzhenitsyn and others about the Gulag death toll).

Your ridiculous defence of this murderous, Jewish swindle can only be explained in two ways; either you are (1) a Jew who is tryng to hide Jewish Crimes Against Humanity or (2) you are a misguided fool who has been deceived by the kikes into believing what you do.

I don't see of what benefit it is to discuss how Comrade Kim So-Very-Ill is a puppet of Jewish International finance since even the basic proofs that Communism is Jewish, is denied by you. I can give you proofs until you choke to death -- certainly proofs that are far more authoritative than your sophmoric denial of them. But to what avail?


Sounds rather like you have no evidence whatever and are merely posturing.

On the other side of the coin, it is impossible for you to prove that Communism is not Jewish since nearly every player of import was a Jew or was supported by Jews. So, either way, I win.

The burden of proof is upon the accuser, and that's you. You can't prove a negative. You don't have any proof, just the hot air of an ignoramus.

[kevinwalsh]

Personally, I don't take most (or all) of the 'Communists' on this board seriously. Imo most (or all) of them are racialists who have adopted an extreme anti-capitalist line, and in a desperate attempt to find a coherent political ideology, have adopted Marxism and Soviet fetishism. This of course is a fool's game, as Communism is a stinking corpse of an ideology, and has no chance of making inroads into convincing whites that pro-whites are sensible. Quite the contrary. It makes us look even nuttier than before.

It'd be nice if just once some of these clowns would look to mainstream thinkers and attempt to reinvent their approach through the prism of moderate political discourse. At least then we'd be speaking the language of the average person. Hopping from Nazism to Communism, to God knows what gets us nowhere.

Capitalism has been behind nearly all the troubles whites have had with nonwhites in modern times. The profit motive encouraged the importation of Negro slaves. The profit motive encouraged enslavement and mixing of Red Indians with Spaniards in Latin America. The profit motive is behind immigration, legal and illegal, of non-whites into white countries. The profit motive is behind shipping white jobs overseas to non-white countries.

The only way to preserve the white man is to end the system of the exploitation of man by man. "Mainstream" ideologies will only serve the Jew.

[Joe McCarthy]

Capitalism has been behind nearly all the troubles whites have had with nonwhites in modern times. The profit motive encouraged the importation of Negro slaves. The profit motive encouraged enslavement and mixing of Red Indians with Spaniards in Latin America. The profit motive is behind immigration, legal and illegal, of non-whites into white countries. The profit motive is behind shipping white jobs overseas to non-white countries.

The only way to preserve the white man is to end the system of the exploitation of man by man. "Mainstream" ideologies will only serve the Jew.

This is classic Marxian economic determinism fitted to racialism. Let me say this, as this is obviously an important issue, though I think you're going about it entirely the wrong way.

The profit motive, even if in muffled form, pre-existed the capitalist system. In its modern form philosophically it probably has origins in the Anglo-Dutch ethicist Bernard Mandeville. He laid the groundwork for the later work of Smith, et al. Now, that aside, these were merely theoretical justifications. The industrial revolution is what brought on the capitalist system, and what the anti-capitalist set is either ignorant of or ignores is that capitalism-industrialism is what allowed the West to leapfrog over all civilizations starting in about 1650. I will grant that certain seedy businessmen put profit above all else, but as Darwin noted, the capitalist system was actually helping us to displace the other races. What went wrong? It's a tangled web, and as E.S. Cox noted decades ago, capitalism must be racialized. But we do need to remember that it is not capitalism itself so much as it is certain industries like agriculture that are driving the immigration wave.

At bottom, our entire dilemma is based on ethics. Regardless of the economic system, as long as we have a society that puts making money above all else, we will have this problem before us. It's a matter of values, and it is why my primary focus in writing is the field of ethics.

At any rate, adopting Marxian formulas is not going to sell on Main Street. I strongly recommend, and I mean this respectfully, that you repackage your approach. Maybe a soft mixed economic model along the lines of Galbraith with perhaps, perhaps, stealth Marxian influences. The last thing we need to be doing is approaching whites saying, 'I'm a racist communist. Can I sign you up?'

[banjo_billy]

No, these sources discuss entirely different things and are in many cases the same source (U.S. Government Printing Office)

If any of the sources contained real evidence, I would say present it. Thus far none of them has, and you are wasting my time and the time of the other readers. Your tactic is to quote a large number of people repeating the same lie and hope that will make people think it is the truth. It's rather reminiscent of the Holocaust hoaxers.

The Black Book of Communism is merely an anthology of existing Cold War lies and meaningless statistical projections, which I have already addressed in this debate (such as how J. Arch Getty's actual research into the Soviet archives failed to back the clames of Solzhenitsyn and others about the Gulag death toll).


Sounds rather like you have no evidence whatever and are merely posturing.


The burden of proof is upon the accuser, and that's you. You can't prove a negative. You don't have any proof, just the hot air of an ignoramus.

Okay, let's go about this from a different direction. You tell me what you consider to be proof and I will see if I can satisfy the voracious black hole between your ears. Okay? Fair enough?

[kevinwalsh]

This is classic Marxian economic determinism fitted to racialism. Let me say this, as this is obviously an important issue, though I think you're going about it entirely the wrong way.

The profit motive, even if in muffled form, pre-existed the capitalist system. In its modern form philosophically it probably has origins in the Anglo-Dutch ethicist Bernard Mandeville. He laid the groundwork for the later work of Smith, et al. Now, that aside, these were merely theoretical justifications. The industrial revolution is what brought on the capitalist system, and what the anti-capitalist set is either ignorant of or ignores is that capitalism-industrialism is what allowed the West to leapfrog over all civilizations starting in about 1650. I will grant that certain seedy businessmen put profit above all else, but as Darwin noted, the capitalist system was actually helping us to displace the other races. What went wrong? It's a tangled web, and as E.S. Cox noted decades ago, capitalism must be racialized. But we do need to remember that it is not capitalism itself so much as it is certain industries like agriculture that are driving the immigration wave.

At bottom, our entire dilemma is based on ethics. Regardless of the economic system, as long as we have a society that puts making money above all else, we will have this problem before us. It's a matter of values, and it is why my primary focus in writing is the field of ethics.

At any rate, adopting Marxian formulas is not going to sell on Main Street. I strongly recommend, and I mean this respectfully, that you repackage your approach. Maybe a soft mixed economic model along the lines of Galbraith with perhaps, perhaps, stealth Marxian influences. The last thing we need to be doing is approaching whites saying, 'I'm a racist communist. Can I sign you up?'

You misplace the cart and the horse. It was the advance of white civilisation that made feudalism obsolete and caused capitalism to replace it. As to packaging, what would be the point? Anyone could see through it and say, "You're a commie; that's communism!" and that person would be right. Communism sells to the masses during times of crisis, and we're in one now. If one has the correct line, the masses will eventually come around to it, by trial and error if nothing else.

[kevinwalsh]

Okay, let's go about this from a different direction. You tell me what you consider to be proof and I will see if I can satisfy the voracious black hole between your ears. Okay? Fair enough?

Proof would be evidence to the point that the null hypothesis is extremely unlikely. The null hypothesis, in this case, is that, whatever Jewish involvement there was and is in Communism, it did not and does not rise to the level of a conspiracy that had completely control of the movement, or that such a conspiracy only involved some Communist countries and not all of them, or that such involvement was not continuous in some countries.

You made quite an incredible claim when you said that both Communism and capitalism are a conspiracy of international Jewish finance capital, and that international Jewish finance capital controls both. I really can't imagine your ever being able to prove such a thing, but I might be surprised.

[banjo_billy]

Proof would be evidence to the point that the null hypothesis is extremely unlikely. The null hypothesis, in this case, is that, whatever Jewish involvement there was and is in Communism, it did not and does not rise to the level of a conspiracy that had completely control of the movement, or that such a conspiracy only involved some Communist countries and not all of them, or that such involvement was not continuous in some countries.

You made quite an incredible claim when you said that both Communism and capitalism are a conspiracy of international Jewish finance capital, and that international Jewish finance capital controls both. I really can't imagine your ever being able to prove such a thing, but I might be surprised.

When the vast majority of the original Communists were Jews both in leadership positions and throughout the party; when these Communist Parties in every country were composed of the same overwhelming proportion of Jews; when the financing for Communism came from Jewish bankers both in Europe and American and Jews continued to finance Communsim even during the Cold War; when the newspapers, magazines, books and films were overwhelming and monopolistically owned and written by Jews who were Communists or pro-Communists; when the Jewish-owned media in every country promotes pro-Communist ideology; when the Jewish professors in every teaching position promotes Communist ideology; when the Jewish rabbis promote Communism; and while simultaneously worldwide all of these Jewish forces do everything that they can to subvert and destroy white, Euro-American Culture, you don't think that this was and is a unified conspiracy?

And in light of these facts, there are today Jews and their creatures such as yourself who categorically deny the facts of history and try to cover up Jewish involvment and Jewish participation in over 90 years of murder, warfare, torture and betrayal, you don't think that there is a conspiracy to hide the Truth and to deny historical facts? Or that when these facts are presented, and deluded liars such as yourself lightly dismiss such facts or slander the facts with your lies or claim the facts are never enough to satisfy your attempts to cover up, you don't see part of the conspiracy even then? Perhaps this Jew can convince you when he admits Jewish subversion. (http://www.wntube.com//index.php?option=com_achtube&task=view&id=647) And even here, this lying Jew claims a higher virtue, such hypocrisy these lying kikes profess! Truely, the Jews are devils.

And yes, Communism and Capitalism are both controlled by Jewish finance.

Make no mistake, I don't really care if I convince you at all. One cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. All Jews and Communists deserve to be hung since it saves so much time trying to convince them of their errors. Jesus and Hitler Told the Truth about the Jews.

[Kostya Novoselov]

Jesus and Hitler Told the Truth about the Jews.

Let us not forget that Hitler also claimed that: “Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew”.

Needless to say that Hitler was operating at a higher level of abstraction than Jesus.

[Joe McCarthy]

You misplace the cart and the horse. It was the advance of white civilisation that made feudalism obsolete and caused capitalism to replace it. As to packaging, what would be the point? Anyone could see through it and say, "You're a commie; that's communism!" and that person would be right. Communism sells to the masses during times of crisis, and we're in one now. If one has the correct line, the masses will eventually come around to it, by trial and error if nothing else.

In its modern form I'm afraid that any Communist movement would just empower turd worlders. This isn't Jack London's Marxism, baby.

[redknight]

Communism in it's most earliest form was largely influenced by Babeuf, who was French.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_No%C3%ABl_Babeuf Communism, as well as other far Left ideology, owes it's legacy to the French revolution. Particularly the "Sans Culottes". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sans-culottes One book I recomend, to proponants and opponants alike, who want to learn more about the origins and developement of Communism, is "History of Socialism", By Harry W. Laidler.

[Kostya Novoselov]

True.

Communism, as an idea, is rooted in early Utopians, including Babeuf.

Marx and Engels added what they described as “science” to it.

[kevinwalsh]

When the vast majority of the original Communists were Jews both in leadership positions and throughout the party; when these Communist Parties in every country were composed of the same overwhelming proportion of Jews; when the financing for Communism came from Jewish bankers both in Europe and American and Jews continued to finance Communsim even during the Cold War; when the newspapers, magazines, books and films were overwhelming and monopolistically owned and written by Jews who were Communists or pro-Communists; when the Jewish-owned media in every country promotes pro-Communist ideology; when the Jewish professors in every teaching position promotes Communist ideology; when the Jewish rabbis promote Communism; and while simultaneously worldwide all of these Jewish forces do everything that they can to subvert and destroy white, Euro-American Culture, you don't think that this was and is a unified conspiracy?

And in light of these facts, there are today Jews and their creatures such as yourself who categorically deny the facts of history and try to cover up Jewish involvment and Jewish participation in over 90 years of murder, warfare, torture and betrayal, you don't think that there is a conspiracy to hide the Truth and to deny historical facts? Or that when these facts are presented, and deluded liars such as yourself lightly dismiss such facts or slander the facts with your lies or claim the facts are never enough to satisfy your attempts to cover up, you don't see part of the conspiracy even then? Perhaps this Jew can convince you when he admits Jewish subversion. (http://www.wntube.com//index.php?option=com_achtube&task=view&id=647) And even here, this lying Jew claims a higher virtue, such hypocrisy these lying kikes profess! Truely, the Jews are devils.

And yes, Communism and Capitalism are both controlled by Jewish finance.

Make no mistake, I don't really care if I convince you at all. One cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. All Jews and Communists deserve to be hung since it saves so much time trying to convince them of their errors. Jesus and Hitler Told the Truth about the Jews.

The names of these Jewish founders of the Korean Workers Party?

[kevinwalsh]

This is classic Marxian economic determinism fitted to racialism. Let me say this, as this is obviously an important issue, though I think you're going about it entirely the wrong way.

The profit motive, even if in muffled form, pre-existed the capitalist system. In its modern form philosophically it probably has origins in the Anglo-Dutch ethicist Bernard Mandeville. He laid the groundwork for the later work of Smith, et al. Now, that aside, these were merely theoretical justifications. The industrial revolution is what brought on the capitalist system, and what the anti-capitalist set is either ignorant of or ignores is that capitalism-industrialism is what allowed the West to leapfrog over all civilizations starting in about 1650. I will grant that certain seedy businessmen put profit above all else, but as Darwin noted, the capitalist system was actually helping us to displace the other races. What went wrong? It's a tangled web, and as E.S. Cox noted decades ago, capitalism must be racialized. But we do need to remember that it is not capitalism itself so much as it is certain industries like agriculture that are driving the immigration wave.

At bottom, our entire dilemma is based on ethics. Regardless of the economic system, as long as we have a society that puts making money above all else, we will have this problem before us. It's a matter of values, and it is why my primary focus in writing is the field of ethics.

At any rate, adopting Marxian formulas is not going to sell on Main Street. I strongly recommend, and I mean this respectfully, that you repackage your approach. Maybe a soft mixed economic model along the lines of Galbraith with perhaps, perhaps, stealth Marxian influences. The last thing we need to be doing is approaching whites saying, 'I'm a racist communist. Can I sign you up?'

That our race should displace other races is not desirable, because it almost always involves mixing and then luring (or in some cases forcing) the other races in as cheap labour. The end product is miscegenation and the destruction of the Aryan genetic material that made the industrial revolution possible in the first place. Capitalism spells doom to us. In all fairness, this analysis is not Marxist. It's from <Mein Kampf> Book One, Chapter 11.

[kevinwalsh]

True.

Communism, as an idea, is rooted in early Utopians, including Babeuf.

Marx and Engels added what they described as “science” to it.

The science was added by the very Aryan Adam Smith, and the dialectic by the very Aryan Hegel. Marx (non-Aryan) and Engles (Aryan) synthesised these three components:

1. German dialecticism
2. English political economy
3. French socialism

[Kostya Novoselov]

The science was added by the very Aryan Adam Smith, and the dialectic by the very Aryan Hegel. Marx (non-Aryan) and Engles (Aryan) synthesised these three components:

1. German dialecticism
2. English political economy
3. French socialism

What about the definitions of economic classes of capitalism and exhausting propagation into the notion of class struggle?

Would you at least give the very Non-Aryan Marx that insignificant attribution?

[Vindex]

Would Marxism exist without jews existing not just in the name but the ideology in general.

How far would Marxism have got without the major jewish elements within it and outside it.

Seems to me Marxism was just jewry hijacking the growing socialist wave in the White world to turn the current to their own end which is always zionism.

[banjo_billy]

The names of these Jewish founders of the Korean Workers Party?

Before I answer this question, can I assume that you agree with me, based upon my previous assertions, that Communism was established by Jews in all other countries? Let's not forget your duty to reply to my assertions without trying to evade the ineviable destruction of your position simply by running away from the subject.

So, since you are asking for more information, are you agreeing that Communism was established by Jews in all other countries?

After agreeing with me on this point, are you now asking for the names of the Jewish founders of the Korean Workers Party?

[Joe McCarthy]

That our race should displace other races is not desirable, because it almost always involves mixing and then luring (or in some cases forcing) the other races in as cheap labour. The end product is miscegenation and the destruction of the Aryan genetic material that made the industrial revolution possible in the first place. Capitalism spells doom to us. In all fairness, this analysis is not Marxist. It's from <Mein Kampf> Book One, Chapter 11.

The displacement that Darwin referred to involved replacing (as in destroying) the other races. This sort of thing was an ongoing process in places like New Zealand, Australia, and North America, when Darwin wrote. All of this was courtesy of capitalist expansion. Without it we would have remained in Bhutan-like backwardness on what at least one writer called 'a peninsula of Asia'.

I am pleased however to see you shift from Marxism to NS. I hope you remain there.

[kevinwalsh]

Before I answer this question, can I assume that you agree with me, based upon my previous assertions, that Communism was established by Jews in all other countries? Let's not forget your duty to reply to my assertions without trying to evade the ineviable destruction of your position simply by running away from the subject.

So, since you are asking for more information, are you agreeing that Communism was established by Jews in all other countries?

After agreeing with me on this point, are you now asking for the names of the Jewish founders of the Korean Workers Party?

I'm not conceeding any points, just pointing out one of the more absurd of your contentions.

[kevinwalsh]

The displacement that Darwin referred to involved replacing (as in destroying) the other races. This sort of thing was an ongoing process in places like New Zealand, Australia, and North America, when Darwin wrote. All of this was courtesy of capitalist expansion. Without it we would have remained in Bhutan-like backwardness on what at least one writer called 'a peninsula of Asia'.

I am pleased however to see you shift from Marxism to NS. I hope you remain there.

I am not shifting to NS. Mein Kampf is full of error, but when Hitler did come to a valid point that Marxists missed, I don't hesitate to quote from it. White expansion outside of Europe was by no means necessary for our technological and societal development.

[kevinwalsh]

Before I answer this question, can I assume that you agree with me, based upon my previous assertions, that Communism was established by Jews in all other countries? Let's not forget your duty to reply to my assertions without trying to evade the ineviable destruction of your position simply by running away from the subject.

So, since you are asking for more information, are you agreeing that Communism was established by Jews in all other countries?

After agreeing with me on this point, are you now asking for the names of the Jewish founders of the Korean Workers Party?

Furthermore there is no duty to reply to assertions, since you have the burden of proof. Some assertions are not even worthy of response.

[kevinwalsh]

What about the definitions of economic classes of capitalism and exhausting propagation into the notion of class struggle?

Would you at least give the very Non-Aryan Marx that insignificant attribution?

That was the synthesis of the English political economy with the Hegelian dialectic.

[kevinwalsh]

Would Marxism exist without jews existing not just in the name but the ideology in general.

How far would Marxism have got without the major jewish elements within it and outside it.

Seems to me Marxism was just jewry hijacking the growing socialist wave in the White world to turn the current to their own end which is always zionism.

Yes, and it would probably be called Engelsism. Marx wouldn't have gotten anywhere if there weren't Aryans to read his works and say, "Yes, this sounds sensible."

[banjo_billy]

I'm not conceeding any points, just pointing out one of the more absurd of your contentions.

Subtle and difficult to fathom, but not at all absurd.

And yet, my previous points are easy to understand but you do not conceed their veracity? So, if you don't conceed the easy-to-understand subjects, how do you expect to understand what is subtle and difficult to fathom? If you were honest, you would admit that I am right. But you are not honest because you are just an ordinary Commie.

[Joe McCarthy]

I am not shifting to NS. Mein Kampf is full of error, but when Hitler did come to a valid point that Marxists missed, I don't hesitate to quote from it. White expansion outside of Europe was by no means necessary for our technological and societal development.

Hitler or no Hitler, your previous statement smacked of Marxian determinism. As you make no secret of your Marxism, it seems reasonable to call a spade a spade.

As for your final statement, I will submit that a society that doesn't expand will stagnate and even possibly die. Moreover, to somehow limit the expansion of whites to the 'Asian peninsula' is completely unfeasible. Strong cultures inevitably expand. They do not remain static. Weak cultures contract. White subgroups themselves expanded within Europe itself through conquest. Why would we expect them to suddenly stop at Europe's borders?

[Vindex]

But with no Marx to inspire and lead Engel I doubt even that. And given there would be no jews to fight for it and fund it....probably not.

I think you answered your question in the first post of the thread. Given the large amount of jews who founded, funded and fought to create a communist government.

Yes, and it would probably be called Engelsism. Marx wouldn't have gotten anywhere if there weren't Aryans to read his works and say, "Yes, this sounds sensible."

[redknight]

But with no Marx to inspire and lead Engel I doubt even that. And given there would be no jews to fight for it and fund it....probably not.

I think you answered your question in the first post of the thread. Given the large amount of jews who founded, funded and fought to create a communist government.
The Jews had throughout history financed opposing sides, in order to profit from the wars. They especially did this during the middle ages, when rival warlords would fight each other. The Jews were the only ones who were allowed to do this dirty work, as usury was forbidden to christians. So only the Jews could charge intrest. In fact Judah P. Benjamin was a Jewish member of Confederate President Jefferson Davis's cabinate. Does this then mean therefore, by the same logic, that the Confederate States of America was the product of a Jewish conspiracy? Well the battle flags of the Confederates were certainly similar to the Red Army battle flag. As they were both red in background color. (sarcasm) http://peoplegetready.jockamofeenanay.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/rebel_flag_375.jpg_ Confederate flag http://www.fotw.net/images/s/su%5E.gif_ Red Army flag :nazitard:

[Vindex]

Jewry helped aid and push a war among gentiles to make themselves more money I already knew that.

This is quite the straw man you got here.


The Jews had throughout history financed opposing sides, in order to profit from the wars. They especially did this during the middle ages, when rival warlords would fight each other. The Jews were the only ones who were allowed to do this dirty work, as usury was forbidden to christians. So only the Jews could charge intrest. In fact Judah P. Benjamin was a Jewish member of Confederate President Jefferson Davis's cabinate. Does this then mean therefore, by the same logic, that the Confederate States of America was the product of a Jewish conspiracy? Well the battle flags of the Confederates were certainly similar to the Red Army battle flag. As they were both red in background color. (sarcasm) http://peoplegetready.jockamofeenanay.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/rebel_flag_375.jpg_ Confederate flag http://www.fotw.net/images/s/su%5E.gif_ Red Army flag :nazitard:

[banjo_billy]

The Jews had throughout history financed opposing sides, in order to profit from the wars. They especially did this during the middle ages, when rival warlords would fight each other. The Jews were the only ones who were allowed to do this dirty work, as usury was forbidden to christians. So only the Jews could charge intrest. In fact Judah P. Benjamin was a Jewish member of Confederate President Jefferson Davis's cabinate. Does this then mean therefore, by the same logic, that the Confederate States of America was the product of a Jewish conspiracy?

Interesting mixture of statements and all true. However, Jewish financing of both sides in wars was not limited to the Middle Ages but right up into modern times.

However, trying to equate the CSA to a Jewish conspiracy through logic, is not necessary nor is it possible because such a connection is not a result of logic but of historical fact.

Such facts would tie the Rothschilds of Europe into the historical mix. The London Rothschilds backed the South while the French Rothschilds backed the North. Thus, they could work both sides of the war for mutual benefit. The Rothschild method was to acquire control over the newspaper writers and editors to spread beneficial news and for spreading rumors or for stirring up war fervor.

When Judah Benjamin escaped after the Southern loss, he found his way to London where he was well received by the English Rothschilds. And the same secret cyphers that were found in the luggage that he abandoned were also found in the personal effects of John Wilkes Booth, tying the two together.

During and after the War, the Chairman of the Democratic Party was the Jewish agent of the Rothschilds. And J.P. Morgan was the frontman for the Rothschilds investing in American railroads and steel production.

The majority of Rothschild wealth was gained from handling the issue of government bonds and from making loans to governments. Nothing eats up money and requires loans more than wars. Just like the War in Iraq, which was purposely started through the 9/11 false-flag operation, nothing requires borrowing from the bankers more than wars. But the bankers never fight in the wars that they start because it is safer to stay in the bank and count the loot. A Jewish saying is: "War is the harvest of the Jews." Do you see the logic derived from all of these facts?

[kevinwalsh]

Hitler or no Hitler, your previous statement smacked of Marxian determinism. As you make no secret of your Marxism, it seems reasonable to call a spade a spade.

As for your final statement, I will submit that a society that doesn't expand will stagnate and even possibly die. Moreover, to somehow limit the expansion of whites to the 'Asian peninsula' is completely unfeasible. Strong cultures inevitably expand. They do not remain static. Weak cultures contract. White subgroups themselves expanded within Europe itself through conquest. Why would we expect them to suddenly stop at Europe's borders?

The superiority of our race includes an ability to plan rather than grow recklessly with the ideology of a cancer cell. Let's use our planning ability.

[kevinwalsh]

But with no Marx to inspire and lead Engel I doubt even that. And given there would be no jews to fight for it and fund it....probably not.

I think you answered your question in the first post of the thread. Given the large amount of jews who founded, funded and fought to create a communist government.

Would anyone have thought of differential calculus if there had not been an Isaac Newton? Would anyone have thought of relativity if there had not been an Albert Einstein? One can argue that we can never really know for certain, since we can't replay history, but it seems to me very unlikely that only a Jew could come up with Marxism.

[banjo_billy]

Would anyone have thought of differential calculus if there had not been an Isaac Newton? Would anyone have thought of relativity if there had not been an Albert Einstein? One can argue that we can never really know for certain, since we can't replay history, but it seems to me very unlikely that only a Jew could come up with Marxism.

The old saying that "Necessity is the mother of invention" would apply here. Calculus was needed to solve a variety of problems and, yes, it could have been devised by any of the mathmaticians of the times or, if not during Newton's time, then later since the need for it was so great. Calculus is really built on a quite simple set of functions. This is not to degnigrate Newton's stroke of genius.

But unlike Newton's unique genius, Einstein was a plagarist who stole his ideas from other mathmaticians and physicists. His theories had already been devised by others but he was able to rush them into publication with the help of the Jewish publishers. Relativity had already been thought of and expressed mathmatically. It's inevitable relationship with e=mc2 was a mathmatical inevitability. Einstein saw a good thing and put his name on the work of others, a standard Jewish theft that is much recommended in the Talmud but which was much resented by the physicists of the time. They gave each other citation of previous work while Einstein simply stole it and took all credit for himself.

Again, "necessity is the mother of invention." In their eternal quest for swindling the world of wealth, the Jews are constantly looking for ways to steal and defraud. No other people have such a necessity or such a driving reason for criminal behavior other than the Jews. So, when Marx, the son of a rabbi, figured out a way for stealing the wealth and destroying the power of the aristocracy and the non-Jewish industrialists, it was quickly taken up by the Jews. Only the Jews needed a tool for pulling down Christianity, murdering the kings and leaders, stealing the wealth, destroying Gentile art and intellectual achievements and putting themselves into postions of political power ... only the Jews wanted this.

So, although there were plenty of revolutionaries who questioned the "divine right of kings" or the historical "rights" of the wealthy land owners and aristocractic families and industrialists, only the Jews needed a tool such as Communism for destroying the whole show and shebang and putting themselves in its place.

And what is Communism? Nothing but confused arguments, lies and false assertions that lead no where. It does not have a real intellectual basis because it is not designed to be a fine tool for social change; it is designed to be a blunt club for social destruction. And yet such confusion is needed to swindle the common man into following the lead of the lying Jews.

So, although calculus and relativity threory could easily have been invented by others since both the necessity and the basic framework was already in place, only a Jew could invent Communism because only a Jew had the necessity for devising it, and only the Jews had a necessity for promoting it.

[kevinwalsh]

The old saying that "Necessity is the mother of invention" would apply here. Calculus was needed to solve a variety of problems and, yes, it could have been devised by any of the mathmaticians of the times or, if not during Newton's time, then later since the need for it was so great. Calculus is really built on a quite simple set of functions. This is not to degnigrate Newton's stroke of genius.

But unlike Newton's unique genius, Einstein was a plagarist who stole his ideas from other mathmaticians and physicists. His theories had already been devised by others but he was able to rush them into publication with the help of the Jewish publishers. Relativity had already been thought of and expressed mathmatically. It's inevitable relationship with e=mc2 was a mathmatical inevitability. Einstein saw a good thing and put his name on the work of others, a standard Jewish theft that is much recommended in the Talmud but which was much resented by the physicists of the time. They gave each other citation of previous work while Einstein simply stole it and took all credit for himself.

Again, "necessity is the mother of invention." In their eternal quest for swindling the world of wealth, the Jews are constantly looking for ways to steal and defraud. No other people have such a necessity or such a driving reason for criminal behavior other than the Jews. So, when Marx, the son of a rabbi, figured out a way for stealing the wealth and destroying the power of the aristocracy and the non-Jewish industrialists, it was quickly taken up by the Jews. Only the Jews needed a tool for pulling down Christianity, murdering the kings and leaders, stealing the wealth, destroying Gentile art and intellectual achievements and putting themselves into postions of political power ... only the Jews wanted this.

So, although there were plenty of revolutionaries who questioned the "divine right of kings" or the historical "rights" of the wealthy land owners and aristocractic families and industrialists, only the Jews needed a tool such as Communism for destroying the whole show and shebang and putting themselves in its place.

And what is Communism? Nothing but confused arguments, lies and false assertions that lead no where. It does not have a real intellectual basis because it is not designed to be a fine tool for social change; it is designed to be a blunt club for social destruction. And yet such confusion is needed to swindle the common man into following the lead of the lying Jews.

So, although calculus and relativity threory could easily have been invented by others since both the necessity and the basic framework was already in place, only a Jew could invent Communism because only a Jew had the necessity for devising it, and only the Jews had a necessity for promoting it.

There have been many fraudsters who were not Jewish, and Jews are by no means the only people who are capable of coming up with fraudulent schemes. If Communism were a fraud, it is entirely conceivable that some Aryan or Asian could eventually have come up with it, and indeed most of its ideas are of Aryan origin. Communism, however, is not a fraud. Class divisions are real, and so were the problems addressed by Marx, Engles, Lenin and Stalin.

The real fraud is this "third position" garbage, including classic "National Socialism" which demoralizes the masses who have accepted that capitalism is their enemy into thinking that Communism is also their enemy and leaves them without hope of a real solution. Classic National Socialism is in fact capitalism that masquerades as socialism and leads to workers being coopted into imperialist projects like Operation Barbarossa which are just as harmful to white workers as anything conventional capitalists have cooked up for them. Then there are obviously unworkable solutions like "national anarchism" which simply have white workers waste their time and revolutionary energy.

The question of this debate is "Is Communism Jewish?" not "Is Communism a fraud?" or "Is Communism helpful or harmful to the White race?" Many right-wing idiots smear Communism as Jewish to try to "prove" that this means Communism is evil or fraudulent. Of course that is the generic fallacy and appeals to prejudice, not to analysis of an idea based on its own merits and results. Even if Communism were Jewish, it would have no bearing on whether or not it was useful.

Banjo Billy and others have been trying to steer the debate to irrelevancies by repeating incorrect allegations about Communist "crimes" (e.g. grossly exaggerated Gulag and Ukrainian famine death tolls), but even if there were truth to these numbers, it would in no way lend credence to the idea that Communism was "Jewish." It might convince some people that Communism was harmful, but it wouldn't address the question of its alleged Jewish character at all.

Neither Banjo Billy nor the other posters have provided evidence that Communism is Jewish, nor have they provided evidence to Banjo Billy's original contention that Kim Jong Il is controlled by Jewish finance capital. They just waste the readers' time with their sophistry.

[banjo_billy]

You are such a funny boy. When you are better educated in what Communism is and Capitalism is and what National Socialism is, then this discussion might actually go somewhere. Unfortunately, Commies like you bring up the usual gambit for your lost positions by merely denying the facts and substituting your lies. But it won't work here. I feel like a big tiger toying with a mouse ... you're the mouse. Your incessant squeeking only continues because I can't reach through the computer screen to squash you. So, let's look at a few of your half-truths.

Class divisions are real, and so were the problems addressed by Marx, Engles, Lenin and Stalin.

Half-truth: Class divisions are real.
Half-lie: The problems addresses by those four Commie assholes are not real. This is because the problems that they claim to be problems, they also link to their solutions. Their solutions were false because their goals were not to solve the indicated problems, their goals were to seize power.


The real fraud is this "third position" garbage, including classic "National Socialism" which demoralizes the masses who have accepted that capitalism is their enemy into thinking that Communism is also their enemy and leaves them without hope of a real solution. Classic National Socialism is in fact capitalism that masquerades as socialism and leads to workers being coopted into imperialist projects like Operation Barbarossa which are just as harmful to white workers as anything conventional capitalists have cooked up for them.

You have a admirable ignorance of both Communism and National Socialism.


The question of this debate is "Is Communism Jewish?" not "Is Communism a fraud?" or "Is Communism helpful or harmful to the White race?" Many right-wing idiots smear Communism as Jewish to try to "prove" that this means Communism is evil or fraudulent. Of course that is the generic fallacy and appeals to prejudice, not to analysis of an idea based on its own merits and results. Even if Communism were Jewish, it would have no bearing on whether or not it was useful..

You refuse to accept any proofs that Communism is Jewish. Whatever is put forward, you claim is not acceptable to you. Given the preponderance of data that shows Jews to be the inventers, financiers, promoters, leaders and profiteers from Communism, this you ignore and claim that none of this historical data means anything. There is no doubt that Communism is Jewish. And in addition, through its own actions, it has proven to have murdered over 100 million people through starvation, torture, execution, warfare, and disease. It has created famine and incalculable suffering; it has destroyed entire histories of entire peoples (a definition of genocide); it has warped the humanity of millions more through brainwashing and lies and deceit. It has proven through its own actions to be nothing but an incredibly evil manifestation without one, single redeeming virtue. And after all of this, it has actually betrayed the very workers that it claimed to want to help by murdering their leaders and imprisoning their members so that Jews and Commies can take their places in society.

But to you this all okay. Your defense of the indefensible, is ludicrous. After all of its crimes against humanity, and all of its majority Jewish involvemnt at every stage of its vile and vicious existence, is met by you with indifference and a pack of lies.

Neither Banjo Billy nor the other posters have provided evidence that Communism is Jewish, nor have they provided evidence to Banjo Billy's original contention that Kim Jong Il is controlled by Jewish finance capital.

Again I say, I can fill this thread with the proofs of Communism being Jewish. But with the small sample that I have already provided, you merely have lies and denial as your defense. Any proofs that I give means that you must offer some negating proofs to the opposite. But you can't do this, first because what I offer is true, and second because you cannot prove otherwise and simply claim that your simple denial of the truth is sufficient evidence for your side of the argument.

Communism is Jewish and it only exists because of the Jews and fools such as yourself who beleive that lies are sufficient substitute for truth. Ah, little mouse. What a pity.

[kevinwalsh]

Yawn, repetition of the same unfounded assertion is "proof" in Banjo Billy's mind.:deadhorse:

You are such a funny boy. When you are better educated in what Communism is and Capitalism is and what National Socialism is, then this discussion might actually go somewhere. Unfortunately, Commies like you bring up the usual gambit for your lost positions by merely denying the facts and substituting your lies. But it won't work here. I feel like a big tiger toying with a mouse ... you're the mouse. Your incessant squeeking only continues because I can't reach through the computer screen to squash you. So, let's look at a few of your half-truths.



Half-truth: Class divisions are real.
Half-lie: The problems addresses by those four Commie assholes are not real. This is because the problems that they claim to be problems, they also link to their solutions. Their solutions were false because their goals were not to solve the indicated problems, their goals were to seize power.



You have a admirable ignorance of both Communism and National Socialism.



You refuse to accept any proofs that Communism is Jewish. Whatever is put forward, you claim is not acceptable to you. Given the preponderance of data that shows Jews to be the inventers, financiers, promoters, leaders and profiteers from Communism, this you ignore and claim that none of this historical data means anything. There is no doubt that Communism is Jewish. And in addition, through its own actions, it has proven to have murdered over 100 million people through starvation, torture, execution, warfare, and disease. It has created famine and incalculable suffering; it has destroyed entire histories of entire peoples (a definition of genocide); it has warped the humanity of millions more through brainwashing and lies and deceit. It has proven through its own actions to be nothing but an incredibly evil manifestation without one, single redeeming virture. And after all of this, it has actually betrayed the very workers that it claimed to want to help by murdering their leaders and imprisoning their members so that Jews and Commies can take their places in society.

But to you this all okay. Your defense of the indefensible, is ludicrous. After all of its crimes against humanity, and all of its majority Jewish involvemnt at every stage of its vile and vicious existence, is met by you with indifference and a pack of lies.



Again I say, I can fill this thread with the proofs of Communism being Jewish. But with the small sample that I have already provided, you merely have lies and denial as your defense. Any proofs that I give means that you must offer some negating proofs to the opposite. But you can't do this, first because what I offer is true, and second because you cannot prove otherwise and simply claim that your simple denial of the truth is sufficient evidence for your side of the argument.

Communism is Jewish and it only exists because of the Jews and fools such as yourself who beleive that lies are sufficient substitute for truth. Ah, little mouse. What a pity.

[banjo_billy]

World Famous Men of the past accused the Jews of founding Communism.
This charge is well founded. The Communist philosophy was drawn up by Karl
Marx who was descended from a long line of Rabbis. His ideology of anti-
Christian and Socialist thought is outlined in the Jewish "Talmud" which is the
"bible" of the Jews. Of the four political groups which overthrew the Christian
Czar of Russia two were 100% Jewish. They were the Mensheviks and The
Jewish Bund. The other two were the Social Revolutionary Party and the
Bolsheviks. Both were headed by Jews but had Gentile members. Today we
now know that Lenin was Jewish and all of the leaders of his first government
were Jews. They were, Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev and Sverdlov. The
wealthiest Jewish banker in the world at that time, Jacob Schiff of the Kuhn,
Loeb investment bank of New York City, gave Trotsky and Lenin $20 million
to overthrow the Czar and establish the Soviet tyranny [according to the "New


York Journal-American" of Feb. 3, 1949.)

[banjo_billy]

WINSTON CHURCHILL , 20th c. British politician. In 1920;he
wrote a long newspaper article on the recent Bolshevik seizure
of Russia. After praising what he called the "national Jews of Russia,"
he said:

"In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise
the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this
sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the
unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted
on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have
forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from
their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This
movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of
Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to
Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxemburg
(Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-
wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the
reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development,
of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has
been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs.
Webster has ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the
tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring
of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth
Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary
personalities from the underworlds of the great cities of'
Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the
hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed
masters of that enormous empire.

"There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the
creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of
the Russian Revolution by these international and for the
most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it
probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of
Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews.
Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes
from the Jewish leaders. . In the Soviet institutions the
predominance of Jews is even more astounding. And the
prominent if not the principal part in the system of terrorism
applied by the extraordinary Commissions for combating
Counter Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some
notable cases by Jewesses. The same phenomenon has been
obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which
Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been
presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this
madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary
prostration of the German people. Although in all these
countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the
worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the
latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is
astonishing."

("Zionism Versus Bolshevism: A Struggle for the
Soul of the Jewish People." Illustrated Sunday Herald,
London, February 8, 1920).

[banjo_billy]

Russian President Vladimir Putin Exposes Jews As The Greatest Mass
Murderers Of All Times

"Every ordinary Russian faced a Jew as his judge and as his executioner.
Where ever the Russian went, he met a Jew in a superior position to him."

JTA - Jewish Telegraph Agency
News at a Glance
March 04, 2001 1:48:01 PM ET

An editorial in the first issue of a new extremist magazine in Russia
accuses "Judeo-Bolsheviks" of having killed millions of ethnic Russians.
The inaugural issue of The Admiralty, published last week in St.
Petersburg, is prefaced with a greeting by a regional representative of
Russian President Vladimir Putin.

----------

56 Million Dead

The Bolshevik's cemetery ... the greatest mass murder in the history of
mankind.


Israel Nachrichten (Israel News), September 10,1992

It all begun in 1917:

"Every ordinary Russian faced a Jew as his judge and as his executioner.
Where ever the Russian went, he met a Jew in a superior position to him."

"If for the tsar regime the officer, the aristrocative official or the
bureaucrat in uniform was typical, then in the new bolshevist revolutionary
power the Jewish (lettic) commissioner, rarely speaking Russian, leather
jacket wearing and machine gun carrying, became a typical occurance in the
street. (45) ...

"But anyhow, outbreaks of destructive, criminal and pathological
potentials, which had accumulated within the Jewish community, turned out
in motion in the first years of the Soviet Revolution ...The problem was,
Jews had taken power for the first time in Russian history. And for the
first time they appeared not as victims, but as offenders... However, the
horror of the revolution, of the civil war and the repressions following
cannot be seperated from the reign of terror, carried out by the Jewish
commissioners. Quite typical were Jewish revolutionaries like Jakov
Bljumkin, a leftist socialist, who in 1918 shot the German Ambassador von
Mirbach. This neurotic adventurer had been accepted by the Tcheka as an
reward for his services to the Bolshevics. Nadesha Mandelstam stipulated in
her memoirs how Bljumkin showed blank death sentence forms to a horrorfied
crowd in a Kiev Café. He boasted, that he was able to insert any name he
wanted onto the preprinted death forms. Mandelstam described him as a
mixture of murderer and intellectual - not a typical character of that era.
(47) ...

"To an impartial person like the historian Boris Paramanow, living in New
York, the Jewish presence of power was so impressive, that he asked
himself, whether the promotion of the Jews into leading positions had been
a ‘gigantic provocation’ to the Russian people. (48) ...

"The eager participation of Bolshevic Jews in the subjugation and the
destruction of Russia was disproportionate. It was a sin which carried its
own retaliation (58)... There are Jews now everywhere and at all levels of
power [after the revolution of 1917). The Russian people saw the Jews in
charge of the Tsaristic City of Moscow, where the new soviet power was
concentrated and also as the commanders in the Red Army ... (58) ...

"Every ordinary Russian faced a Jew as his judge and as his executioner.
Where ever the Russian went, he met a Jew in a superior position to him. It
is no wonder, if the Russians nowadays compare their situation with the
past, come to the conclusion that the present power is again Jewish and
therefor so horrible." (60)

Sonja Margolina, (Das Ende der Lügen) The End of the Lies, Siedler
Publishing House, Berlin 1992 (numbers in brackets refer to page numbers in
the book).
----------

Sat., November 29, 1997:


"The most appalling genocide was not committed by the Nazis but by the
Communists. And the killing goes on. Yet leading British academics are
still preaching the virtues of Marxism ... The bottom line, then is close
to 100 million dead."

----------

(London) 8.12.1996, Section 7, page 2
Jew praise

Although Lenin was a political monster, he was no enemy of the Jews. He was
aware of his partly Jewish origin, many of his close associates were Jews,
he often spoke of Jews in favourable terms and he opposed anti-Jewish
attitudes.

Andrew Wilski, Tunbridge Wells, Kent

----------

"Lazar Kaganovich's rage aimed at first on the class enemy, the kulaks
(peasants). He succeeded to exterminate the entire farming and peasant
population in the Soviet Union"

Der Spiegel, 35/1991, page 151

(Lazar Kaganovich, Stalin's Jew for implementing the Holocaust on Russia's
and the Ukraine's rural population. He planned and organised a genocide on
about twenty million peasants. He is the biggest individual mass murder in
the history of mankind.

----------

"Lavrentija Berija composed the resolution to murder 27,500 Polish
officers, soldiers and civilians. When the members of the Polit-Buro
gathered on March 5, 1940, Berija’s resolution was adopted and subsequently
carried out in Katyn and other places." Der Spiegel, 8/1996, page 147.

Along with most members of the Polit-Buro, Berija was also a Jew. The
International Military Trubunal of Nuremberg charged the German Wehrmacht
and the SS for the Katyn-Massacre. The German defendants were not permitted
to defend themselves against the Katyn indictment as they were not allowed
to produce evidence against Auschwitz accusations.

Katyn - village, W European Russia, W of Smolensk near the Belarus border.
It was occupied by the Germans in World War II. In 1943 the German
government announced that the mass graves of 4,250 (sic) Polish officers
had been found in a nearby forest and blamed Soviet forces for the
massacre. The Soviet government asserted that the Poles had been killed by
the Germans. In 1990 the USSR admitted that Soviet secret police had killed
the Poles, and in 1992 Russian officials released documents that showed
STALIN had ordered the killings.
(http://www.encyclopedia.com/articles/06863.html)

----------

Ilya Ehrenburg, Stalin's Jewish propagandist for genocide!

"Kill, kill, you brave Red Army soldiers, kill. There is nothing in the
Germans that is innocent. Obey the instructions of comrade Stalin and stamp
the fascistic beast in its cave. Break with force the racial arrogance of
the Germanic women. Take them as your legal loot. Kill, you brave soldiers
of the Red Army, kill!" (Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Frankfurt,
February 28, 1995 - page 7


The above is one of the many thousands of genocide orders from Stalin's
official Jewish war propagandist. With these kind of orders of the day,
Ehrenburg spurred the Red Army soldiers on their way to Germany. They
murdered in the eastern territorries of Germany, which they controlled and
thanks to his effective propaganda of "humanity", nearly three million
women, children and old people perished in the hands of his killing hordes.
Ehrenburg is especially revered in Israel and his memory is still kept in
the highest esteem by World-Jewry.

[banjo_billy]

Stalin Becoming Recognized As 'Most
Criminal Monster Of All'
From Ingrid A. Rimland
Copyright (c) 2001
4-1-1

Hitler Bad - But Far From Worst


Ask any Westerner to name the most evil figure of the past century.
Almost always, the same answer comes up: Hitler. Sustained
brainwashing has done its job...Der Fuhrer still towers above all
rivals as modern history's greatest demon. But increasingly, research
proves that we have been persuaded to fixate on the wrong dictator.
History's airbrush has worked overtime on the most criminal monster
of them all: Josef Stalin.

Stalin's murderous ruthlessness was, by any standard, far more
horrible than Hitler's. A psychopath who modelled himself on Ivan the
Terrible, Stalin instituted a reign of terror without parallel,
exterminating opponents or perceived opponents by the multi-million.
How many died in his murderous stranglehold?

Only in recent years have the Russians themselves learnt just how
hideous their history is. Their first glimpse of the reality came in
February, 1956, when Nikita Khrushchev denounced Stalin's mass terror
and unmasked the prison Gulag system. That was met with widespread
disbelief in the West. There can now be no doubt that Stalin, as a
matter of policy, killed and killed and killed.

* In 1989, the KGB itself set the death toll in Stalin's 26-year
reign of terror (1927-53) at 36 MILLION. But that figure included
ONLY the victims of Stalin's liquidations of individuals and groups.
Serious research began stepping up with Gorbachev's policy
of 'Glasnost.'

* Norman Davis, in his celebrated History of Europe suggested a
figure of 54 MILLION.

* The University of Moscow, in association with the University of
Madrid, put the figure at 57 MILLION.

Those figures are ten to 15 times higher than the numbers allegedly
killed by the Fuhrer and makes him look like an amateur. Such imposed
slaughter on countless millions simply freezes belief. It represents
the most appalling terror ever inflicted on human kind, rivalled only
by Mao's China. Only under a regime which deliberately allowed the
extermination of millions of its own citizens could such unimaginable
figures be achieved.

On one day alone, December 8, 1938, Stalin signed 30 death lists,
containing thousands of names. He then went to the Kremlin cinema to
watch a comedy called 'Happy Guys.' It is this viper's ghost that
should worry us rather than Hitler's. Yet no Nuremberg trials have
ever been conducted into Soviet atrocities. There have never been any
Soviet war crimes trials.

As for Stalin's victims, who is interested? They are so much dust
blowing in the Siberian winds. No Spielberg conjures them to life.
There are many reasons why Stalin's Great Terror remains the most
underreported event of the 20th Century.

First, Hitler lost, Stalin - ally of the West - won. Stalin believed
(correctly) that he could get away with mass murder. As he told Mao
Tse-tung when the Red Chinese leader, visited Moscow in
1949: "Victors are not judged." Perhaps the whole of modern history
is summed up in those four words.

Many anti-Stalinists knew, and published, the truth: men such as
Malcolm Muggeridge, George Orwell, and Arthur Koestler. But their
reports were overwhelmed from the start by the pro-Stalinists. Way
back in the mid 1930s, the father of all fellow travellers, George
Bernard Shaw, dismissed reports of a Moscow-engineered famine killing
millions as "pure invention." Shaw knew better, of course. Stalin had
given him the details.

As he did to New York Times correspondent Walter Duranty, a prince of
liars, who gained the Pulitzer Prize for his fictional accounts of
Stalin's "new civilisation" and of "the great Soviet miracle."
Duranty played a key role in perpetrating one of the greatest cover-
ups in history.

Western illusions did not stop there. Bizarre as it now seems, many
at the highest level, up to and including US President Franklin
Delano Roosevelt, revered Stalin and were consciously partisan in
their support of this butcher.

Further, in an astounding example of mankind's infinite capacity for
self-deception, millions of Western intellectuals, academics,
communists, socialists, liberals, fellow travellers, trade unionists,
journalists and clergy forcefully rejected reports of mass atrocities
in the old USSR and in China, just as they did later of events in
Cuba and Cambodia.

The truth is that vast numbers in the West worshipped Stalin as
almost a demigod, and nursed an almost religious faith that the USSR
represented the great new hope of all mankind. Stalin fondly referred
to such useful idiots as his "maggots."

Above all, until quite recently, we have had little real access to
communist archives. Even today the most sensitive are still closed.
So we still do not know the full answers: Was it one tenth or one-
twentieth of the entire adult Soviet population who served time in
Stalin's prison camps? Did 3 million die in the Gulag, or was the
figure closer to ten? We may never know but the effort to break
through the Great Amnesia is picking up speed.

Till the late 1980s, hardly anyone but local villagers knew where the
bones were buried. For the past 13 years the Russians have been
slowly recovering their past, with new mass graves being uncovered at
regular intervals. And, as soon as the existence of the first
Stalinist mass graves were made known, people began to come forward
with revelations of the death camps. In one, Kolyma, the huge prison
complex in the Russian Arctic, so many bones lay around that in the
summer children used the skulls to gather blueberries. Now memorials
are being built.

The misery came early. In Russia, uniquely, there exists hardly any
memory of the 1914-18 War, such a watershed for the rest of Europe.
There exist no Soviet national monuments to WWI. The reason is
simple. In the civil wars which followed the revolution of 1917 and
brought the Bolsheviks to power, between nine and 14 million Russians
died: starving, cold, racked with disease, or tortured and killed in
bitter fighting.

Next came the Ukraine. Robert Conquest in his 'Harvest of Sorrow'
suggests that when, on Stalin's direct orders, the entire grain crop
of the Ukraine was seized for export, the number of resulting deaths
was probably about 1.5 million, equalling the total dead of WWl.

We will now turn to a brilliant but deeply disturbing new book by a
young British historian, 'Night of Stone: Death & Memory in Russia'
by Catherine Merridale, published by Granta. Dr. Merridale is one of
a growing army of scientists dedicated to uncovering the truth about
Soviet-era crimes, the legacy of Josef Stalin and the society he
created.

She spent two years in Russia and the Ukraine, researching documents
from the Stalinist era only now coming to light: and talking to
ordinary Russians about what it is like to live in a country haunted
by the all-pervasive presence of death. Her book, an excellent work
of scholarship, attempts to explain how the Russian people lived
through some of the greatest horrors of a singularly bloody 20th
century: and how, at long last, they are coming to terms with their
shocking past and themselves.

Merridale does not attempt to put a precise figure on how many
Russians lives were lost to violence between 1914 and Stalin's death
in 1953, but suggests a total well in excess of 50 MILLION. All of it
planned.

Epidemics of flu and cholera, and the 1921-22 famines in grain-
producing areas of southern Russia, killed many millions. People ate
earth, grass, carrion and human flesh. In some districts, in the
winter of 1921, local officials had to ban the sale of processed meat
to stop the trade in human flesh.

Stalin's own signature is on thousands of death warrants. Millions
more were denounced as enemies of the state for no other reason than
they wished to think for themsetves.

Crematoria, with which the state had been experimenting since Lenin's
time, were now running more efficiently. The bodies arrived in
batches, accompanied by stamped forms in triplicate.

"They were such handsome men," one crematorium worker told Dr
Merridale. "Some of them were still warm. Some of them were not even
dead when we threw them into the furnace....."

The death rate in the gulags peaked in 1942-3. Without doubt, the
brutalisation of millions of Russians over the previous quarter
century contributed to the grim reputation of the Red Army in WW2.
Soldiers were treated like livestock. At Stalingrad, there was no one
left to dig the graves.

At last came victory in the Great Patriotic War, as it was known, the
only occasion for real celebrations that many of those Merridale
interviewed, had known in all their lives. After Stalin's death in
1953, the repression gradually eased. "A human being survives only by
his ability to forget," wrote a survivor of the Kolyma Camp. In
recent years, many of the anonymous Gulag death camps have quietly
disappeared.

Stalin himself spelt it out. His Short Course Into The History of the
Communist Party of the Soviet Union contains references to the
liquidation of his political opponents. He wrote: "The Soviet
Government had only to raise its little finger for them to vanish
without trace." How true.

For an intelligent person today to be ignorant of the manner of
Soviet rule can only be seen as an act of wilful political bias. The
whole record of the terrible era is one of naked human power and
inhuman cruelty. It is a sad fact that many in South Africa's present
ruling ANC/SACP glory in their self-designation as "Stalinists"...

There is little danger of the world ever running out of imbeciles.
_____


Thought for the Day:

"A single death is a tragedy. A million deaths are a statistic."



-Joseph Stalin

[banjo_billy]

Remembering Ukraine's Unknown Holocaust

by Eric Margolis LOS ANGELES - As Britain's socialist government cleared the way for a gaudy show trial of that Great Satan of the left, Chile's Gen. Augusto Pinochet, the 65th anniversary of this century's bloodiest crime was utterly ignored. Leftists now baying for Pinochet's head don't want to be reminded of the Unknown Holocaust In 1932, Soviet leader Josef Stalin unleashed genocide in Ukraine. Stalin determined to force Ukraine's millions of independent farmers - called `kulaks'- into collectivized Soviet agriculture, and to crush Ukraine's growing spirit of nationalism.

Ukraine's nightmare had begun in 1932. Faced by resistance to collectivization, Stalin unleashed terror upon Ukraine. Moscow dispatched 25,000 fanatical young party militants - earlier versions of Mao's `Red Guards' - to force 10 million Ukrainian peasants into collective farms. Secret police units of OGPU began selective executions of recalcitrant farmers.
When Stalin's red guards failed to make a dent in this immense number, OGPU was ordered to begin mass executions. But there were simply not enough Chekists (secret police) to kill so many people, so Stalin decided to replace bullets by a much cheaper medium of death, mass starvation.

All seed stocks, grain, silage, and farm animals were confiscated from Ukraine's farms. Ethiopia's communist dictator, Mengistu Haile Mariam, used the very same method in the 1970's to force collectivization: the resulting famine cased one million deaths.

OGPU agents and Red Army troops sealed all roads and rail lines. Nothing came in or out of Ukraine. Farms were searched and looted of food and fuel. Ukrainians quickly began to die of hunger, cold, and sickness.

When OGPU failed to meet weekly execution quotas, Stalin sent henchman, Lazar Kaganovitch, to destroy Ukrainian resistance. Kaganovitch, the Soviet Eichmann, made quota, shooting 10,000 Ukrainians weekly. Eighty percent of all Ukrainian intellectuals were executed. Ukrainian Nikita Khruschchev helped supervise the slaughter.

During the bitter winter of 1932-33, mass starvation created by Kaganovitch and OGPU hit full force. Ukrainians ate their pets, boots, belts, bark, and roots. Cannibalism became common; parents even ate infant children.

The precise number of Ukrainians murdered by Stalin's custom-made famine and Cheka firing squads remains unknown to this day. KGB's archives, and recent work by Russian historians, shows at least 7 million Ukrainians died. Ukrainian historians put the figure at 9 million, or higher. Twenty-five percent of Ukraine's population was exterminated.
Six million other farmers across the USSR were starved or shot during collectivization. Stalin told Churchill he liquidated ten million peasants during the 1930's. Add mass executions by the Cheka in Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania; the genocide of 3 million Muslims of the USSR; massacres of Cossacks and Volga Germans. In total, Soviet industrial genocide accounted for at least 40 million victims, not including 20 million war dead.

Kaganovitch, and many senior OGPU officers( later, NKVD) were Jewish. The predominance of Jews among Bolshevik leaders, and the frightful crimes and cruelty inflicted by Stalin's Cheka on Ukraine, the Baltic, and Poland, led the victims of Red Terror to blame the Jewish people for both communism and their suffering. As a direct result, during the subsequent Nazi occupation of Eastern Europe, the region's innocent Jews became the target of ferocious revenge by Ukrainians, Balts, and Poles.

While the world is by now fully aware of the destruction of Europe's Jews by the Nazis, the story of the numerically larger holocaust in Ukraine has been suppressed, or ignored. Ukraine's genocide occured 8-9 years before Hitler began the Jewish Holocaust, and was committed, unlike Nazi crimes, before the world's gaze. But Stalin's murder of millions was simply denied, or concealed by a leftwing conspiracy of silence that continues to this day. In the strange moral geometry of mass murder, only Nazis are guilty.

Socialist luminaries like Bernard Shaw, Beatrice and Sidney Webb, and PM Edouard Herriot of France, toured Ukraine during 1932-33, and proclaimed reports of famine were false. Shaw announced, `I did not see one under-nourished person in Russia.' New York Times correspondent Walter Duranty, who won a Pulitzer Prize for his Russian reporting, wrote claims of famine were `malignant propaganda.' Seven million people were dying around them, yet these fools saw nothing. The New York Times has never repudiated Duranty's lies.
Modern leftists do not care to be reminded their ideological and historical roots are entwined with this century's greatest crime - Stalin's mass murder machine - the inevitable result of enforced social engineering and marxist theology. Had Germany won the war, today's `reformed' Euro- Nazis would take the same amnesiac approach to Hitler as modern European socialists do to Stalin.

Western historians delicately skirt the sordid fact that the governments of Britain, the US, and Canada were fully aware of the Ukrainian genocide and Stalin's other monstrous crimes. Yet they eagerly welcomed him as an ally during World War II. Stalin, whom an adoring Roosevelt called `Uncle Joe,' murdered four times more people than Adolf Hitler - and a decade earlier. Roosevelt and Churchill colluded with and helped save history's most murderous regime. Time to face this ugly fact. None of the Soviet mass murderers who committed genocide were ever brought to justice. `Soviet Eichmann' Lazar Kaganovitch died peacefully in Moscow a few years ago, still wearing his Order of the Soviet Union, and enjoying a generous state pension.

[banjo_billy]

Very few people are aware of the extent to which Jews were
responsible for the Communization of Russia, first through
organizing of the unsuccessful revolution of 1905, and then the
later and successful Bolshevik Revolution of 1917. Both were
heavily financed by outside Jewish financial and banking houses,
and ultimately resulted in Jews assuming control of what had
become the Russian Soviet Government. Concurrently, Jewish
machinations in the United States, Germany and elsewhere helped
set the stage for the take-over.

This Jewish control still exists, despite propaganda to the contrary,
designed to delude and deceive non-Jews.

Long prior to the Revolution of 1905, Jews had conceived a
hatred of Christian and Czarist Russia, because of opposition of
the Russian people and Government to Jewish Talmudism.

In his introduction to the 1903 translation of the Talmud,
for example, Rodkinson details the repeated denunications of the
Talmud over many centuries by nearly every country, the Popes,
and others, and also states: "Still what has been the
result? The Talmud exists today, and not one letter in it is missing.
It is true, the persecutions against it are not yet at an end;
accusations and calumnies by its enemies, under the new name of
anti-Semites, are still directed against it, while the government of
Russia legislates against and restricts the rights of the nation which
adheres to the Talmud.''

One of the prime Jewish conspirators plotting to Communize
Russia was Jacob Schiff, who became head of the enormously
powerful New York Jewish banking house of Kuhn, Loeb and Co.

Turn to the laudatory sketch of Jacob Schiff, in the Jewish
Communal (Kehillah) Register of New York City, 1917-18, of
which Kehillah he was an Executive. It is stated there how German-born
Schiff came to America and made connections with a banking house.
"In 1873, he returned to Europe where he made connections with
some of the chief German banking houses'' and ''The firm of
Kuhn-Loeb & Co. floated the large Japanese war loans of 1904-5,
thus making possible the Japanese victory over Russia .... "

The last paragraph boasts "Mr. Schiff has
always used his wealth and his influence in the best interests of
his people. He financed the enemies of autocratic Russia. [This
was written in 1918, after the Bolshevik revolution had been
made secure] .... and used his financial influence to keep Russia
from the money market of the United States." It is stated that
"all factions of Jewry" hailed him for this.

"Today it is estimated by Jacob's grandson, John Schiff, a
prominent member of New York society, that the old man sank
about $20,000,000 for the final triumph of Bolshevism in
Russia.'' (Cholly Knickerbocker in his society news column in the
Hearst Press, Feb. 3, 1949, appearing in the "N.Y.
Journal-American" and other papers.)
-- Dilling, page-79

[banjo_billy]

"On his return from a visit to the Soviet Union, S. Mikunis, Secretary of
the Israel Communist Party, stated on January 18, 1957, in Tel Aviv that
there were 260,000 Jews in the Soviet State apparatus. He added that 40% of all Soviet professors were Jewish."

-- "Jewish Life" magazine of New York,
reported in 1957

[banjo_billy]

"Without exaggeration, it may be said that the
great Russian social revolution was indeed
accomplished by the hands of the Jews. Would the
dark, oppressed masses of the Russian workmen and
peasants have been able to throw off the yoke of
the Bourgeoisie by themselves?

"No, it was precisely the Jews who led the
Russian proletariat to the dawn of the
International and not only had led, but are also
now leading the Soviet cause which remains in their
hands. We may be quiet as long as their chief
command of the Red Army is in the hands of comrade
Leon Trotsky. It is true that there are no Jews in
the ranks of the Red Army as far as privates are
concerned. But the Committee and Soviet
Organizations, as commissars, the Jews, are
gallantly leading the masses of the Russian
proletariat to victory. It is not without reason
that during the elections to all Soviet
institutions the Jews are winning by an
overwhelming majority. The symbol of Jewry, which
for centuries has struggled against capitalism, has
become also the symbol of the Russian proletariat,
which can be seen in the adoption of the Red
five-pointed star, which in former times, as it is
well known, was the symbol of Zionism and Jewry.
With this sign comes victory, with this sign comes
the death of parasites of bourgeoisie.
Jewish tears will come out of them in sweat of
drops of blood."

M. Cohen, in "The Communist,"


April 12, 1918

[banjo_billy]

"I shall tell you how we felt. When the Russian
border guard gave us a sign to enter, my family
and I and friends from our city sobbed and cried
and fell upon each others necks and kissed each
other with indescribable joy. Very soon the Russian
Militia came up to us, and speaking Yiddish,
comforted us and told us to calm ourselves. They
assured us that we were out of danger, for we were
now under the protection of Russian power. How new
and wonderful for us, these expressions of understanding
and sympathy by militia and police."

Dr. Joseph Nover,
quote in Rabbi Moses Miller's
"Soviet 'Anti-Semitism' the Big Lie,"


page 20

[banjo_billy]

"Whatever be the status of Judaism and religion,
it may be categorically stated that there is no
Jewish problem in the Soviets. The Soviet Union is
the only country in the world, having a large Jewish
population, in which the Jewish question is not
raised as a foremost issue, whether religious,
radical or social. One need but cross over the
western border into Poland to appreciate the
striking dissimilarity. Compared to the status of
Jewish life in Fascist lands, in Nazi Germany or in
now Nazified Austria, for example, the USSR is a
veritable Utopia for the Jewish people. Only
Socialism has so far been able to solve the Jewish
problem."

"Jewish Life" (N.Y.),


July, 1938

[banjo_billy]

"Special concern for the Jewish people has
characterized the Soviet Union since its birth in
the 1917 Revolution. A week after Tsarism was
overthrown, the infant Socialist government, headed
by Lenin, legally abolished national oppression,
making it the first country in the world to declare
anti-Semitism a crime... Every manifestation of
anti-Semitism was fought openly and sternly."

Louis Levine,
National Chairman of the Jewish
Council of Russian Relief,
in "Soviet Russia Today,"
November, 1946

[In fact, one week after the Bolsheviks took over, anti-Semitism was not just a crime but it was punished by the death sentence.]

[banjo_billy]

"In the Soviet Union every third Jew is
employed in an administrative capacity!"

"Jewish Chronicle,"
January 6, 1933

[banjo_billy]

"With the rise of the Soviet regime, the Jews
have been granted rights not accorded even in the
most advanced countries. The state which
previously did not employ any Jews, now employs in
White Russia 61 per cent Jewish officials. A Jew
is president of the state bank; Jews occupy almost
all important ambassadorial positions;
universities, professions, judiciary and
administration now have a greater percentage than
any other nationality. Anti-Semitism has been
declared a state offense, and is punished as
counter-revolution."

Rabbi Stephen S. Wise,
in "Jewish Opinion,"
December, 1933

[banjo_billy]

"Among the Soviet generals warring against
Hitler, 313 were Jews."

William B. Ziff,
in Dagobert D. Runes'
"The Hebrew Impact on Western Civilization,"
page 277

[banjo_billy]

Henry Waton early Communist Jew leader in America,
wrote in his book "A program for the Jews":

"Communism is the destiny of mankind There is one work on
sociology, and only one work, and that is Marx's 'Capital.'
Only a Jew could write this work.

"The Jews are the highest and most cultured people on earth....
The Jews have a right to subordinate to themselves the rest
of mankind and to be the masters over the whole earth. The
Jews will become masters over the whole earth, and they will
subordinate to themselves all nations, not by material power,
not by brute force, but by light, knowledge, understanding,
humanity, peace, justice and progress.

"The Aryans will enlarge and beautify the earth, but they
will settle to enjoy the world which they created only in the
tents of the Jews. These tents are communism, internationalism.

"State capitalism may come from below through a bloody
revolution, as was the case in Soviet Russia; or it may come
from above, as will likely be the case in this country.

"The Jews shall inherit this earth, and . . . all other races will
either disappear altogether or they will become Jews."

(Note: This astounding declaration was published by a group
calling itself, "Committee for Preservation of the Jews"


and sponsored by the prestigeous Spinoza Institute of New York City. )

[banjo_billy]

"How could Soviet leaders be
anti-Semitic when so many of them have Jewish wives?
-- Leonid Brezhnev

[banjo_billy]

"A majority of the Jews are Communistic. Why was
the Communist Party mass meeting called on June 2, 1934,
at Madison Square Garden to endorse the
Soviets, sponsored by 100 Jewish organizations?"

Robert E. Edmondson,
" Testify,"age 44

[banjo_billy]

"Communism is no doctrine, no set of principles.
It is but a criminal plan, a vulgar scheme.
Communism is a crime against God and mankind, and
as in all other crimes, we must ask: Whom does the
crime profit? The Jew!

"It is not by hazard that only Jews can be found
as inventors of Marxism with its great prophets:
Karl Marx, Engles, Ferdinand Lasalle, Liebnecht,
etc. It is not by hazard that whenever Marxism comes
to power, Jews also immediately come to power. In
Soviet Russia, out of 550 higher officials, 88 per
cent are Jewish.

"When it came to Mexico, we saw enthroned the
Jews Calles, Hubermann and Aaron Saenz; in Spain we
saw Azana and Rosenberg; in Hungary we saw Bela Kun,
Szamuelly, Agoston and a dozen other Jews; in
Bavaria, we saw Kurt Eisner and a host of other
Jews; in Belgium, Marxian Socialism brought to power
Vandervelde alias Epstein, and Paul Hymans, two Jews;
in France, Marxian Socialism brought forth the Jews
Leon Blum (who showed so well his Jewish instincts
in his filthy book 'Du Mariarge'), Mandel, Zyromsky,
Denain and a whole tribe of them; in Italy we had
seen the Jews Nathan and Claudio Treves. Everywhere,
Marxism brings Jews on the top -- And this is no
hazard."

Adrien Arcand, New York speech,


October 30, 1937

[banjo_billy]

"It is impossible to separate Jewish Communism from
Jewish Capitalism...

"Let Christians remember that the international Jewish
Communists and Capitalists expect to eventually destroy
all Gentile governments; rule the world, and establish
throughout the earth the kind of conditions they have
introduced in Soviet Russia. They expect to murder all
Christian believers and blot Christianity out of
existence."

Rev. Gerald Winrod,
"The Jewish Assault on Christianity,"


pages 43 and 46

[banjo_billy]

"The alliance between the arch-capitalistic
State of the west and the mendacious socialistic
regime of Bolshevism is only thinkable because the
leadership in both cases is in the hands of
International Jewry. Roosevelt's largely Jewish
Brain Trust, the Jewish press of America, the
Jewish wireless and the Jewish party organization
are nothing more than the equally Jewish
leadership of the Soviet Union."

Adolph Hitler,
in a speech, January, 1943

[banjo_billy]

ON BOLSHEVISM, CHINA AND SLAVERY

In the Soviet Union, the communist party, run mostly for the benefit of
its Jewish founders who made up approximately 90% of the founding fathers
and administrators of the Soviet Union, hid behind their leftist doctrine
which had been designed to undermine Christianity in the name of
materialism and social science.

These administrators of the Soviet Union who were detailed in reports to
the U.S. State Department from Russia in 1919 were instrumental in
instructing their cohorts to send out Jewish commissars like Kaganovitch
and Beria to kill approximately 100 million White European Christians whom
they called "reactionary bourgeoisie" for correctness in 1920-1940. What
they meant by "bourgeoisie" were Russia's Christians. In addition to
killing the Christian peasants under the materialist aegis of communism,
the churches and parochial schools were confiscated or burned as were
their Christian towns; the priests were either murdered or sent to
prisons, and all vestiges of Christianity were as nearly as possible
expunged. Once the Christians in an entire area were killed, the Jews
brought in new non-Christians, atheists, who were relocated there to
re-establish the economic exploitation of the emptied lands in
agricultural communes similar to the kibbutzim programs in Israel which
were begun at the same time. At this point in history, the Jews and
Zionists in power declared anti-Semitism to be a capital crime, because
the Christians who were being killed by these communist Jews in Russia had
developed groups to protect themselves and were critical of the Jewish
excesses in the matter of their own genocide with whom they naturally
refused to cooperate without fighting for their very lives.

The accusation of anti-Semitism in Russia became a mandatory death
sentence to any Christian fighting against the Jewish oppression of
Christianity in the Soviet Union, especially if these Christians even
identified the names of the many thousands of Jews in control of their
anti-Christian extermination policy.

The Jewish-led anti-Christian genocide in Russia was basically a totally
Jewish-run and definitely anti-Christian Affair using communism and
anti-reactionary programs as the ideological communist "cover" for wiping
out Christianity. The Jews basically ran the Russian government and hid
behind its skirts as they carried out their murders across the Russian
Continent. It was never reported in the United States, because the media
was controlled mostly by Jewish owners who were uninterested in exposing
Americans to an atrocity by Jews. Only Henry Ford, who own his own
newspaper, got the word out, and he was severely criticized as being
anti-Semitic for his honesty in exposing this matter of Christian genocide
by the Jews.

In China, more than 80 million oriental peasants were killed by the
Chinese Communist Party which learned from the Russians how to run a
revolution. Especially sought out for instant extermination during The Big
March and beyond were those peasants who were Christians, Buddhists, or
Islamics and anyone else associated with a religion or philosophy or God
concept who were non-materialistic in thought. Like Russian Liberals, the
Chinese communists did not want "other leaders" and "other systems"
teaching their people. Religion in China, as in Russia, was called the
"opiate of the people" and, as in Russia, this was used to justify the
mass murder of priests, devotees, and other adherents of non-communist
religions. Today in China, Christians are still being mistreated, and many
churches are inundating the west coast of the United States with Chinese
Christian refugees desperate to escape the on-going anti-Christian purges.

The great international conspiracies of communism, socialism, liberalism,
Masonry, and Zionism were always interconnected and have created all of
our world wars, cold wars, economic depressions, and divisive genocidal
conduct throughout the world, mainly because their conspirators who have
created these agencies of death carried an anti-Christian agenda which was
hidden behind the false curtain of secular materialist intellectuality.
Those believing there is no international conspiracy going back more than
one hundred years cannot explain the existence of the State of Israel
without studying the conspiracies stemming from the Zionist World Congress
in the 1800's whose final fruit is Israel itself as well as the two world
wars, communism, the secret Balfour Declaration under which Zionists
promised Britain they would bring the United States into the First World
War using their blackmail of President Wilson over his sexual liaisons at
Princeton (a la Benjamin Freedman's books), the 3-day communist takeover
in Germany in 1919 under Rosa Luxembourg whose Jewish-Communist Conspiracy
resulted in the abdication of the Kaiser who crossed into Denmark for
safety, the collapse of the German front due to Jewish-inspired leftist
armaments production strikes in Germany in the middle of the war, the
later Christian genocide of 1920-1940 by the Zionists in Russia, the
Jewish-inspired world blockade of Germany in 1933 (see Freedman), and the
Jewish-Zionist German diplomatic assassination in Poland in 1937 which
triggered Krystal Nacht and the persecution of Jews by the nearly starved
Germans. Most of the adherents had little idea they were being manipulated
by persons who, in the background, were orchestrating genocide against
members of their own societies, and that type of hidden agenda and hidden
genocide is a major point in the correct administration of worldwide
conspiracies. These conspiracies are also being carried out in America and
Europe today where immigration is supported in order to eliminate as many
Christian Europeans as possible from the world stage.

In reality, these outcomes were planned more than one hundred years ago
and outlined in little read but always available Jewish, Masonic, and
communist publications composed mostly by Zionist anti-Christian
conspirators bent on genocidal acts and world domination by moneyed



interests.

[banjo_billy]

The Jewish Bankers


The great Jewish banking monopolies have been interwoven
by marriage like a rug. Note three things about the Rothschilds ...
from the Jewish Encyclopedia of 1905:

1. That of the 58 Rothschild marriages to that date, exactly
half, or 29, had been to first cousins. This appears in the right
hand column.

2. That the Rothschilds "were the first to make use of
journalistic methods to arouse the interest of the public in their
loans. They have, however, consistently kept the secret of their
own operations!''

3. A major reason why Russia collapsed and went under the
Red heel during World War I also appears in this exhibit, namely,
"Of recent years the Rothschilds have consistently refused to
have anything to do with loans to Russia owing to the anti-Jewish
legislation of that empire." (This was 1905.)

The Warburg International Jewish banking family has also
been closely connected with the Schiffs and Rothschilds. James
Paul Warburg, in his sketch in Who's Who in Amencan Jewry --
1938-9 states:

"Born Hamburg, Germany, August 18, 1896 . . . paternal
ancestors through six generations have been bankers as
members of the banking house of M. M. Warburg & Co.,
founded in Hamburg, 1798 . . . maternal grandfather, Solomon,
founder of international banking house of Kuhn, Loeb & Co....
Came to U.S., 1902 ...."

Paul M. Warburg had married Jenny Nina Loeb, mother of
James Paul. Jacob Schiff, after coming to the U.S., had married
Theresa Loeb, sister of Nina, and daughter of the Kuhn, Loeb
founder. Schiff's daughter, Frieda, married Felix M. Warburg,
Hamburg-born banker who headed the agro joint work for Jewry
in Russia to help keep them in power after the Red Revolution.
Their daughter, Carola, married Walter M. Rothschild. Felix M.
Warburg and Paul M. Warburg of Kuhn, Loeb & Co., partners of
Jacob Schiff, were brothers of Max Warburg of Hamburg,
Germany, the pay-off man, in power with the Kaiser, who
funneled funds to Lenin and Trotsky during World War I to
undermine and destroy the Russian Government.

Jacob Schiff received his banking training in his father's
business, he being a Rothshild agent and associate. The basement
of the two-in-a-row houses of Schiff and Rothschild, which I
visited in Frankfort-on-Main, Germany, was one
room-in-common, with a joint "get-away" which formerly had led
beyond a ghetto wall. The little shack at the back was where
Kings, hat-in-hand, would come to get Jewish loans. The original
name of Bauer had been abandoned for ''Red Shield" (Rothschild)
and a Red Shield hung out as an address sign at the front of the
house.

A ship sign for "Schiff" hung outside the Schiff house, built
along the same common wall. Each house was about the
width of an entrance hall. The room back of the Rothschild
kitchen was a tiny synagogue when I was there in 1934. A
skull-capped Jew was the guide, who collected entrance fees for
showing the houses, the Rothschild house being the chief
attraction. A gambling table was the main piece of furniture in the
front room in the upstairs of the Rothschild house. Two rooms
on each floor comprised the house.

"When the Kehilla [i.e. the Jewish community] of New
York was organized in 1909, the control rested with a
group of German Jews including Jacob Schiff, president of
Kuhn, Loeb and Co., a branch of the Bleichroeder
Mendelssohn Bank, affiliated with the big "D'' banks in
Germany: Deutsche Bank, Disconto Gesellschaft,
Dresdener Bank, Darmstadter Bank. " (From "Waters
Flowing Eastward," by L. Fry, published by the R.I.S.S. of
Paris, founded by Monsignor Jouin.)

"In Germany the leading private bankers included the
Mendelssohns . . . and the Bleichroeders . . . who were
bankers to Emperor William I., Bismarck, and the early
industrialists .... Frankfort, the 'mother city' of Jewish
bankers . . . produced its Lazards, Speyers, Sterns,
Dreyfuses, and Sulzbachs as well as sending abroad one
Jacob H. Schiff." ("The Jews of Germany," Marvin
Lowenthal, Longmans Green and Co., N.Y., 1936).

-- Dilling, pages 79-80

[banjo_billy]

"Upon the future historian of our revolution will devolve the task
of assessing properly the special role of the Jews in the October
(1917) victory. It is very improbable that we should have been
able to achieve this victory had we not been aided by the Jews who
did the best for our cause in the mental sphere, making it
possible for us to build up an administrative apparatus at a time
when the intellectual sabotaged and boycotted us. The large number
of intellectual Jews provided an invaluable source from which we
could draw able and reliable officials."
-- Lenin, as quoted in "Der Tog" (New York),

[banjo_billy]

"The Jews provided a particularly high percentage
of the revolutionary movement."

V.I. Lenin,
from a lecture on the 1905 Revolution, delivered in Zurich,


published in "Lenin on the Jewish Question," page 6

[banjo_billy]

"The time has come when the patriotic Jews of
America should begin to feel the great
responsibility for the evil deed (Communism)
planned and hatched in the camp of Israel.

"Communism is tyranny worse than that of
Czarist regime... The Bolshevik Revolution was
first hidden and started in Leningrad and Moscow,
and thence hurled itself on the remainder of
Russia. It is starting in exactly the same way
here and now.

"I meet Communists in their hunting grounds,
Union Square (New York). 'How will you start the
revolution here in America?' I ask them in their
own language. 'Do you not think that ultimately
the government will wake up and make what you are
doing illegal?'

"'Then we Communists will work underground,
and use the same methods that brought about the
Russian Revolution by assassinating the government
officials and scaring others to death. We will
plant cells in their fashionable clubs and their
homes -- poison their food. Did we not do so in
Russia, and succeed?'"

"At a mass meeting in New York City
commemorating the anniversary of the death of
Lenin, there were nearly 25,000 present. There
were not 500 Gentile faces in that mob.

"Jews ask prayers for their co-religionists
in Russia; but why don't these Jews in their
comfortable pews on Fifth Avenue and Riverside
Drive take the Old Testament and the Prayer Book
and visit their deluded Communistic brethren and
convert them to Jehovah and the Republic before it
is too late?

"Our coffers are full, our homes palatial, our
synagogues rise, our hospitals multiply. Never has
Israel so increased in wealth.

"Demonstrations such as are often resorted to
by Communist leaders and their dupes, will soon
exhaust the patience of tolerant Americans and
create in them a spirit of hatred against all Jews,
the like of which has never been seen, for we have
become an irritation to our American neighbors.

"The American people are long suffering to a
fault, but they are essentially men of action,
practical men, and surely America's participation
in the World War has shown what Americans can do
when once aroused to the conviction that their
forbearance has been abused.

"Let no Jew who reads these words accuse me of
trying to ingratiate myself with "anti-Semites".
Baptismal font has not lessened the love I cherish
for my people, but because I have a dual
perspective, being a Jew by birth and race and at
the same time a Christian by faith, I believe I
can help my people, especially since the Rabbis ignore
what is ailing us, while the Christian ministry is
silent, fearing to touch the Jewish problem."

B.A.M.Shapiro,
"America's Great Menace"

[banjo_billy]

There's more, Kevin Walsh, lots more.

The above are a few samples from my archives. Should I fill this thread with more data? The huge collection of books from my library use a lot more words to prove the same thing.

Is Communism Jewish? Apparently, you think not. But where is your proof that it isn't? All you have is the usual criminal defense of "Admit nothing, deny everything, demand proof."

What do you have to say, Criminal?

[kevinwalsh]

There's more, Kevin Walsh, lots more.

The above are a few samples from my archives. Should I fill this thread with more data? The huge collection of books from my library use a lot more words to prove the same thing.

Is Communism Jewish? Apparently, you think not. But where is your proof that it isn't? All you have is the usual criminal defense of "Admit nothing, deny everything, demand proof."

What do you have to say, Criminal?

You can repeat lies as many times as you want to, but they don't constitute proof of anything. As for my proof it isn't, the burden of proof is on you. You can't prove a negative. :deadhorse:

[banjo_billy]

You can repeat lies as many times as you want to, but they don't constitute proof of anything. As for my proof it isn't, the burden of proof is on you. You can't prove a negative.

You are a hilarious fraud. But what else can a Commie be except a fraud?

In other words, all of the statements that I have presented by people who were actual actors in the historical events, who were researchers of impeccable creditials, who were official government observers, who were journalists, politicians, professors and observers of the historical events, all of these people you are calling a bunch of liars. :rofl:

And that's all you have to do to prove your position, is to ignore the data and call it all lies? :rofl: What a hilarious fraud you are. Even your double-negative statement that "You can't prove a negative" is a lie.

And as far as the burden of proof is on me, well, I have provided plenty of proof and I can supply plenty more, but what's the use? You have nothing of your own. You have no proofs to the contrary. You simply say that none of it is worthy of your august consideration. Sorry, punk, but I am going to have to give you my Kosher Pig Seal of Disapproval. You haven't resorted to all of these methods yet, but I might as well give it to you now since I don't see any use of continuing any discussion with you.

¤§¤=======¤§¤=======¤§¤WARNING TO READERS¤§¤=======¤§¤=======¤§¤
The Jew-Commie-Criminal Debating Method is here being used. Beware
of such methods as: Deny Everything, Admit Nothing. Demand Limitless
Proof and when valid Proof is offered claim to be unconvinced and
Demand More Proof. Answer a Question with a Question. Use a Red Herring
and Change the Subject. Tell Lies. When the argument is lost, attack
the credibility of the opponent. Become enraged with name-calling.
When all else fails, accuse him of being insane or mentally defective.
After all of these techniques fail, start all over again with the
same arguments in an attempt to tire and exasperate the opponent.
These Jew-Commie-Criminal Methods are designed to Create Chaos and
Confusion and to defeat Truth. These are evil methods used by Jews,
Devils and Communists. Beware. Beware.
¤§¤=======¤§¤=======¤§¤WARNING TO READERS¤§¤=======¤§¤=======¤§¤

As far as I'm concerned, this debate is over. I will put you on my ignore list.

[kevinwalsh]

You are a hilarious fraud. But what else can a Commie be except a fraud?

In other words, all of the statements that I have presented by people who were actual actors in the historical events, who were researchers of impeccable creditials, who were official government observers, who were journalists, politicians, professors and observers of the historical events, all of these people you are calling a bunch of liars. :rofl:

And that's all you have to do to prove your position, is to ignore the data and call it all lies? :rofl: What a hilarious fraud you are. Even your double-negative statement that "You can't prove a negative" is a lie.

And as far as the burden of proof is on me, well, I have provided plenty of proof and I can supply plenty more, but what's the use? You have nothing of your own. You have no proofs to the contrary. You simply say that none of it is worthy of your august consideration. Sorry, punk, but I am going to have to give you my Kosher Pig Seal of Disapproval. You haven't resorted to all of these methods yet, but I might as well give it to you now since I don't see any use of continuing any discussion with you.

¤§¤=======¤§¤=======¤§¤WARNING TO READERS¤§¤=======¤§¤=======¤§¤
The Jew-Commie-Criminal Debating Method is here being used. Beware
of such methods as: Deny Everything, Admit Nothing. Demand Limitless
Proof and when valid Proof is offered claim to be unconvinced and
Demand More Proof. Answer a Question with a Question. Use a Red Herring
and Change the Subject. Tell Lies. When the argument is lost, attack
the credibility of the opponent. Become enraged with name-calling.
When all else fails, accuse him of being insane or mentally defective.
After all of these techniques fail, start all over again with the
same arguments in an attempt to tire and exasperate the opponent.
These Jew-Commie-Criminal Methods are designed to Create Chaos and
Confusion and to defeat Truth. These are evil methods used by Jews,
Devils and Communists. Beware. Beware.
¤§¤=======¤§¤=======¤§¤WARNING TO READERS¤§¤=======¤§¤=======¤§¤

As far as I'm concerned, this debate is over. I will put you on my ignore list.

A lot of your so-called statements are not even attributed to any source. A lot of them aren't even relevant to the question. I'll repeat something I mentioned earlier but which you may have forgotten: You can use this same tactic of repeating lies stated by many different people to "prove" the Holocaust myth, but that's still not proof.

[banjo_billy]

A lot of your so-called statements are not even attributed to any source. A lot of them aren't even relevant to the question. I'll repeat something I mentioned earlier but which you may have forgotten: You can use this same tactic of repeating lies stated by many different people to "prove" the Holocaust myth, but that's still not proof.

No matter what I post, you deny yet offer nothing in return. There is far more proof that Communism is Jewish than there is proof that it isn't, simply because all proof that attempts to prove that it was a "spontaneous uprising of the masses" proves, merely by naming those involved, that Communism is Jewish. So, there is no proof (other than denial and lies) that Communism was not Jewish simply because any such proofs merely prove that it was Jewish! A real problem for the kikes when trying to cover up their crimes!

I doubt that any neutral party reading this thread would be convinced by your lack of arguments. In fact, the same criminals who lie about there being a Holocaust, are the very ones who lie about Communism -- the Jews, the world's biggest liars and frauds, swindlers and murderers. All of them telling lies while hiding behind their biggest lie of all that claims them to be holy and innocent. What a laugh the Jews actually are! What incredibly evil clowns the Jews really are, hiding their evil behind a smiling grease paint.

[kevinwalsh]

No matter what I post, you deny yet offer nothing in return. There is far more proof that Communism is Jewish than there is proof that it isn't, simply because all proof that attempts to prove that it was a "spontaneous uprising of the masses" proves, merely by naming those involved, that Communism is Jewish. So, there is no proof (other than denial and lies) that Communism was not Jewish simply because any such proofs merely prove that it was Jewish! A real problem for the kikes when trying to cover up their crimes!

I doubt that any neutral party reading this thread would be convinced by your lack of arguments. In fact, the same criminals who lie about there being a Holocaust, are the very ones who lie about Communism -- the Jews, the world's biggest liars and frauds, swindlers and murderers. All of them telling lies while hiding behind their biggest lie of all that claims them to be holy and innocent. What a laugh the Jews actually are! What incredibly evil clowns the Jews really are, hiding their evil behind a smiling grease paint.

There were plenty of people in the leadership of the Bolshevik Revolution who weren't Jewish, including Lenin and Stalin. It certainly had the support of the masses. Of course if you contend that the bulk of the Russian workers and peasants were content to continue to fight their fellow Aryans and kill each other by the millions just to support their German Romanovs' desire to kill their fellow Germans and Kerensky's Jewish business interests' desire to honour allied loans, you really are making us Aryans out to be a bunch of dummkopfs. That would be the Jewish position.

It's no surprise that a jackass like Hitler would praise the fratricidal Romanovs (along with unfounded casualty reports of the Bolshevik Revolution) in <Mein Kampf> and proceed to launch another Aryan-on-Aryan war against the Russians.

[banjo_billy]

....you really are making us Aryans out to be a bunch of dummkopfs.

Not all Aryans, just you. :)

[Vindex]

This thread has proven to me communism is jewish and that it also used shabbos goyiums as useful fools.

The jews created a Frankstein monster that turned on them later. Like xtainity.

[WillieBrennan]

Both Communism and Capitalism were created by Jews as a means to centralize and control wealth.

Capitalism


The essence of the capitalist regime in force since the French Revolution which has produced the material greatness of the modern world is the regime of financial wealth as the prime mover of all economic affairs. The financial power concentrated in the banks assures the development of all commercial, industrial, and agricultural activity. By means of credit and lending at interest, finance capital mobilizes great wealth, which in turn increases that same finance capital. The banks enrich themselves rapidly by lending at interest. By being loaned, money acquires a magnetic power. Lending at interest, in a regime with monetary stability, tends to create two well-defined classes. The lending, capitalist class necessarily goes on getting richer, because the money cannot help increasing. The working class must work both for itself and for the lender. The moment comes when the work done does not cover what is due to the lender, and then it goes into debt.


Another way by which bankers enrich themselves is the numerous operations of loans and repayment of loans. It is a real creation of money for the use of the banker. Credit is money, and in creating it, they become wealthy.


It is public knowledge that the Jewish sector, relatively small compared to the Gentile sector which devotes itself to the creation of wealth, controls especially the financial power that is exercised through banks. Wise Solomon observes for us under the power of the Holy Ghost:


"By slothfulness a building shall be brought down, and through the weakness of hands, the house shall drop through. For laughter they make bread, and wine that the living may feast: and all things obey money." (Eccl. 10:18,19 [emphasis added])


The gifted Jewish bankers have created a controlled economy whose ultimate end is the multiplication of money. Even money-strapped governments become their obedient clients. Governments could break their financial bonds except that, despite many other circumstances, these bankers are also national or international at will and can bring pressure to bear from nearly any point. International Judaism has created international capitalism to gain international wealth. Werner Sombart’s voluminous work (Les juifs et la vie économique, Payot, Paris, 1923 [translated from the German]) shows how Judaism has created Capitalism and could not be otherwise explained without it.


Demo-liberal Corruption and Socialism


Beyond its financial influence, Judaic thinking comes to dominate the cultural and educational fields. The pattern repeats: Jews get into posts of influence, and submit society to a high degree of corruption in ways of thinking and acting, which leads to a reaction of public opinion against them.


But demo-liberalism is only a stage. The next step is socialism, whose seminal thinkers, from Marx to Leon Blum, were of the Jewish people. The construction of both Capitalism and Socialism, two opposing forces, is to further divide and conquer. Capitalism robs Christians of what they have. Socialism poisons those who have not, and so starts the Class War. Catholicism, however, which constructed Christendom, is confined to sacristies and convents.


The people are Judaized: the rich with Liberalism, the poor with Socialism. It thinks and acts in the manner of Judaism. Thinking itself free, it thinks with the Judaized mind of the media.


"The great ideal of Judaism is that the whole world should be imbued with Jewish teaching, and that in a universal fraternity of nations —an enlarged Judaism —all separate races and religious should disappear.... By their activity in literature and science, by expressing their dominant passion in every branch of public activity, they are gradually pouring into Jewish molds all non-Jewish systems and ideas." (Jewish World newspaper, Feb. 9, 1863)


Communism


It is a matter of public historical record that Communism was financed by Jewish money. Jacob Schiff and his banking partners, Felix and Max Warburg, financed revolutionary propaganda among Russian prisoners of war in different countries and helped Trotsky. Schiff publicly declared (1917) that the revolution had succeeded thanks to his help.


A Jewish review declared that Communism had achieved "the emancipation of Jews and the triumph of Judaism," because it had "been created, realized by Jews" (Vu, April, 1932).


Capitalism is only a transition stage toward the egalitarian leveling of Communism. That Communism was created by Judaism does not mean it has the control of it as it once had, especially since 1947 when the alliance broke into two blocks. In Russia now there is a general anti-Judaism feeling and though Judaism still promotes Communism, it prefers to see it realized in another manner.

[kevinwalsh]

Both Communism and Capitalism were created by Jews as a means to centralize and control wealth.

No, capitalism was also generally created by Aryans. Technological advancements enabled the artisan class of rennaissance Europe to break the chains of feudalism. That Jewish money-lenders saw an ally in this does not make it Jewish any more than that Jews saw socialism as an ally against Czarism make socialism Jewish.

[Sudaev]

Not all Aryans, just you. :)

You've been pwned Billy; give it up.

[banjo_billy]

You've been pwned Billy; give it up.

A Jewish-Commie like you giving advice? Really?:rofl:

What kind of proof is it when two lying Commies say that you lost?:rofl:

Read what Vindex post #137 and WillieBrennan post #138 have to say.

You and Kevin Walsh are full of BS. The only one's pwned is Kevin Walsh.

[Sudaev]

Read what Vindex post #137 and WillieBrennan post #138 have to say.

Ah...yes, what convincing arguments:

This thread has proven to me communism is jewish and that it also used shabbos goyiums as useful fools.

The jews created a Frankstein monster that turned on them later. Like xtainity.

Both Communism and Capitalism were created by Jews as a means to centralize and control wealth.

:rofl:

[banjo_billy]

Ah...yes, what convincing arguments::rofl:

As I wrote earlier, any neutral reader of this thread would not be convinced by anything Kevin Walsh wrote or any of your own lies. When presented with the facts, the only conclusion is that Communism is Jewish. All facts and first-hand observations support that conclusion and there's nothing you Jew-Commies can do about it except lie and deny.

Deceivers and betrayers like you and Kevin Walsh jump up and down and shout: "Our lies are true! Our lies are true! Your facts and proofs don't mean a thing because our lies are true!" :rofl: But do you offer anything to support your lies? No, you just deny the facts and the proofs and offer nothing but denial and lies in their stead.

Jesus and Hitler told the Truth about the Jews.

[Sudaev]

Deceivers and betrayers like you and Kevin Walsh jump up and down and shout: "Our lies are true! Our lies are true!

Retard, kevinwalsh clearly is anti-Jew and a white separatist.

[Petr]

People who want to see a non-retarded treatment of this topic are welcomed to check out this thread:


My thoughts on the relationship between Jews and Communism

http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7283&highlight=blanqui


Petr

[banjo_billy]

People who want to see a non-retarded treatment of this topic are welcomed to check out this thread:


My thoughts on the relationship between Jews and Communism

http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7283&highlight=blanqui

Petr

That was a very interesting and informative essay, Petr. An interesting treatment of the subject, but lacking the basic thread that ties it all together.

Whether one is discussing Communism or the French Revolution, the basic thread that ties it all together is the fact that both of these bloody insurrections were staged, financed, promoted and profited by the Jews. That secret society that you mention in your essay, the Jacobins, had a much fuller name - The Sons of Jacob. This was a Jewish underground secret society financed by the Jewish moneylenders for the purpose of overthrowing the aristocrisy and putting Jewish finance and Jewish land owners in its place through a controlled democratic facade.

Just as in the Russian Communist times, the Jews used lies, slanders and rumors against the French leaders to stir up the People while importing hired agitators to spread rebellion among the people. And as in modern times, the Jews blackmailed and bribed corruptible members of the ruling elite (such as the Duc d'Orleans) to support them among the rich. And just like the lies that "Communism was a result of worker rebellion against tyranny", the French Revolution likewise has been claimed to be a popular rebellion against the king rather than the subversive coup d'etate that it was.

Nesta Webster treats this history much more fully than does your Wikipedia sources.

So, your essay is actually proving that Communism is Jewish simply by basing your argument upon the French Revolution as being a precursor to the Bolsheviks. The French Revolution was Jewish and so was the Russian Revolution.

The Jewish moneylenders of France had the aristocrisy in deep debt (palaces and fancy dress balls cost a lot) and with usual Jewish greed, they wanted to collect all of the principle and the interest all at once by seizing aristocratic properties and throwing down both Gentile king and their main enemy, Christian France.

And in later times, the European rebellions of 1845, were also promoted and financed by the Jews. It was here that Marx got his start financed with Rothschild money.

[banjo_billy]

Retard, kevinwalsh clearly is anti-Jew and a white separatist.

Well, if it oinks like a pig, waddles like a pig, and smells like a pig ... are you saying that it's a duck? :)

[kevinwalsh]

That was a very interesting and informative essay, Petr. An interesting treatment of the subject, but lacking the basic thread that ties it all together.

Whether one is discussing Communism or the French Revolution, the basic thread that ties it all together is the fact that both of these bloody insurrections were staged, financed, promoted and profited by the Jews. That secret society that you mention in your essay, the Jacobins, had a much fuller name - The Sons of Jacob. This was a Jewish underground secret society financed by the Jewish moneylenders for the purpose of overthrowing the aristocrisy and putting Jewish finance and Jewish land owners in its place through a controlled democratic facade.

Just as in the Russian Communist times, the Jews used lies, slanders and rumors against the French leaders to stir up the People while importing hired agitators to spread rebellion among the people. And as in modern times, the Jews blackmailed and bribed corruptible members of the ruling elite (such as the Duc d'Orleans) to support them among the rich. And just like the lies that "Communism was a result of worker rebellion against tyranny", the French Revolution likewise has been claimed to be a popular rebellion against the king rather than the subversive coup d'etate that it was.

Nesta Webster treats this history much more fully than does your Wikipedia sources.

So, your essay is actually proving that Communism is Jewish simply by basing your argument upon the French Revolution as being a precursor to the Bolsheviks. The French Revolution was Jewish and so was the Russian Revolution.

The Jewish moneylenders of France had the aristocrisy in deep debt (palaces and fancy dress balls cost a lot) and with usual Jewish greed, they wanted to collect all of the principle and the interest all at once by seizing aristocratic properties and throwing down both Gentile king and their main enemy, Christian France.

And in later times, the European rebellions of 1845, were also promoted and financed by the Jews. It was here that Marx got his start financed with Rothschild money.

Supporting the Bourbons as ideal Aryan leadership is true retardation. You can make whatever nonsensical conspiracist claims you like, but no rebellions against the Bourbons or the Romanovs would have occurred if conditions had not been made truly insupportable for the ordinary Aryan citizens of France and Russia. These were genuine popular revolutions.

Apart from that it is an interesting logical disconnect that the alleged characteristics of one revolution supposedly "prove" those of another, despite there being 128 years between them. No one who was alive at the time of the French Revolution could possibly have had anything to do with the Bolshevik Revolution.

Of course we must also ask who benefits from spreading the lie that all the major revolutions of Aryan countries have been Jewish. Could it be those who are in power now and want to discourage Aryans from real rebellion against the current order of things (i.e. the very Jews Banjo Billy claims to despise)?

[banjo_billy]

Supporting the Bourbons as ideal Aryan leadership is true retardation. You can make whatever nonsensical conspiracist claims you like, but no rebellions against the Bourbons or the Romanovs would have occurred if conditions had not been made truly insupportable for the ordinary Aryan citizens of France and Russia. These were genuine popular revolutions.)

You read into the statements what suits you. I quote from historical sources. You claim an historical precursor was necessary for rebellion but ignore those who lead, armed, financed, agitiated for, profited from and engineered that rebellion. You want to extoll the historical events while hiding the rats and cockroaches who were behind those events. You want to claim a popular rebellion when those rebellions were betrayed by the actual demons who led those rebllions. Yes, the People rose up during times of stress and under the agitation of deceiving leaders, but the People were betrayed and mislead and their power channeled into courses that profited the leaders but destroyed the People.

Apart from that it is an interesting logical disconnect that the alleged characteristics of one revolution supposedly "prove" those of another, despite there being 128 years between them. No one who was alive at the time of the French Revolution could possibly have had anything to do with the Bolshevik Revolution..)

I only answer your dull musings so that you do not accidently mislead some innocent Reader. Since a half-hour cartoon show might be too much for you, obviously, your Attention Deficit Dissorder (ADD) extends into the historical realm as well. History requires that you look past a couple of days or months and consider decades, centuries and millennia. Certainly, since the invention of writing, the Jew bankers have kept careful records for sucking that 30 year loan out of every mortgage. And the Jew rabbis have kept their Babylonian Talmuds written in 1000 AD shiny from wear. And from those Talmuds, the Jews learn how to take advantage of every aspect of Gentile society. Daily, weekly, yearly, and by the decades, the Jews have organized themselves into parasitic hives of blood-suckers and swindlers for the sole purpose of parasitizing Gentile society.

It is not necessary that any one person live 128 years to carry on some conspiracy for rebellion because such a conspiracy is part and parcel of Judaism and the Jews in total. On a daily basis, they swindle individual Gentiles. But when the time is right and conditions are optimum, they are organized to swindle entire societies. (This is happening today in America with the banking swindles and stock market crises where they are being given $700 billion dollars for free.)

Destroying Gentile, especially Caucasian Society, is a basic tenant and teaching of the rabbis. This conspiracy is carried from one generation of Jews to the next. All that is required is the proper time for the conspiracy to take hold through the active participation of whatever bunch of Jews are alive during any particular moment in history.

In France, that moment was staged by the American Revolution of 1776 where-in the idea that aristocratic rule and the "divine right of kings" was over thrown with a Republican form of government. These ideas spread to France where the Jewish landlords and moneylenders saw an opportunity to stir up the People in a way that the Jews could seize the palaces and farms that they had under mortgage while at the same time killing off as many Christians and priests as they could. So, through their rumor mills, they spread dissent and through their paid agitators and their printing presses, they spread rebellion.

If you want to find what is the cause of a disease, take a tissue sample from every victim and through the microscope look for the common bacterium of each. When you find the pathogen that is common to every victim, you have found the cause of the disease.

If you want to find what is the common denominator of these revolutions, you will find that the Jews are the common denominator. If you want to find who profited from these revolutions, you will find that the Jews promoted, agitated for, financed, and profited from them. In this way, you can find out who is the cause of these rebellions. And in the case of the Russian Revolution when the vast majority of Communist leaders were Jews, and these leaders were supported and financed by Capitalist Jews, how can you have any doubts?

Supporting
Of course we must also ask who benefits from spreading the lie that all the major revolutions of Aryan countries have been Jewish. Could it be those who are in power now and want to discourage Aryans from real rebellion against the current order of things (i.e. the very Jews Banjo Billy claims to despise)?

Here, you make little sense from mixing your assertions. Who benefits from spreading the truth that the major revolutions were and are caused by Jews? The People of the entire world benefit because they will not be so easily lead astray if they know who their deceivers and betrayers are. The People can choose wisely when they are given the Truth.

[Joe McCarthy]

Will this argument ever end, and will Vassily ever make his long promised response to my posts?

[kevinwalsh]

You read into the statements what suits you. I quote from historical sources. You claim an historical precursor was necessary for rebellion but ignore those who lead, armed, financed, agitiated for, profited from and engineered that rebellion. You want to extoll the historical events while hiding the rats and cockroaches who were behind those events. You want to claim a popular rebellion when those rebellions were betrayed by the actual demons who led those rebllions. Yes, the People rose up during times of stress and under the agitation of deceiving leaders, but the People were betrayed and mislead and their power channeled into courses that profited the leaders but destroyed the People.



I only answer your dull musings so that you do not accidently mislead some innocent Reader. Since a half-hour cartoon show might be too much for you, obviously, your Attention Deficit Dissorder (ADD) extends into the historical realm as well. History requires that you look past a couple of days or months and consider decades, centuries and millennia. Certainly, since the invention of writing, the Jew bankers have kept careful records for sucking that 30 year loan out of every mortgage. And the Jew rabbis have kept their Babylonian Talmuds written in 1000 AD shiny from wear. And from those Talmuds, the Jews learn how to take advantage of every aspect of Gentile society. Daily, weekly, yearly, and by the decades, the Jews have organized themselves into parasitic hives of blood-suckers and swindlers for the sole purpose of parasitizing Gentile society.

It is not necessary that any one person live 128 years to carry on some conspiracy for rebellion because such a conspiracy is part and parcel of Judaism and the Jews in total. On a daily basis, they swindle individual Gentiles. But when the time is right and conditions are optimum, they are organized to swindle entire societies. (This is happening today in America with the banking swindles and stock market crises where they are being given $700 billion dollars for free.)

Destroying Gentile, especially Caucasian Society, is a basic tenant and teaching of the rabbis. This conspiracy is carried from one generation of Jews to the next. All that is required is the proper time for the conspiracy to take hold through the active participation of whatever bunch of Jews are alive during any particular moment in history.

In France, that moment was staged by the American Revolution of 1776 where-in the idea that aristocratic rule and the "divine right of kings" was over thrown with a Republican form of government. These ideas spread to France where the Jewish landlords and moneylenders saw an opportunity to stir up the People in a way that the Jews could seize the palaces and farms that they had under mortgage while at the same time killing off as many Christians and priests as they could. So, through their rumor mills, they spread dissent and through their paid agitators and their printing presses, they spread rebellion.

If you want to find what is the cause of a disease, take a tissue sample from every victim and through the microscope look for the common bacterium of each. When you find the pathogen that is common to every victim, you have found the cause of the disease.

If you want to find what is the common denominator of these revolutions, you will find that the Jews are the common denominator. If you want to find who profited from these revolutions, you will find that the Jews promoted, agitated for, financed, and profited from them. In this way, you can find out who is the cause of these rebellions. And in the case of the Russian Revolution when the vast majority of Communist leaders were Jews, and these leaders were supported and financed by Capitalist Jews, how can you have any doubts?



Here, you make little sense from mixing your assertions. Who benefits from spreading the truth that the major revolutions were and are caused by Jews? The People of the entire world benefit because they will not be so easily lead astray if they know who their deceivers and betrayers are. The People can choose wisely when they are given the Truth.

The common denominator of Jews could apply to just about anything, since Jews were around in Europe at least from the Middle Ages onward, and for a long time they had a monopoly on money lending. This kind of "logic" just doesn't wash. The logical conclusion would also be to support the divine right of kings. I don't think we Aryans need monarchical absolutism, and I give our people credit for having enough sense to think of this on our own, not have it be dictated by Jews. As to financing, the Jews were financing many things, but that doesn't mean all these things originated with Jews. For example, if a Jewish banker loans Mr. and Mrs. Aryan money to buy a house, it doesn't mean that it was the idea of the Jew that they should buy that house or that buying a house is Jewish.

As to Banjo Billy's "historical sources," many of his quotes produced in this debate don't even have sources. Many of the other sources are simply people repeating earlier assertions that were unfounded. Well, if someone else repeats a lie, that doesn't make it the truth. By that standard you can find lots of "historical sources" to "prove" the Holocaust, flying saucers from outer space, Sasquatch, and any number of nonsensical assertions.

[banjo_billy]

The common denominator of Jews could apply to just about anything, since Jews were around in Europe at least from the Middle Ages onward, and for a long time they had a monopoly on money lending.

We are not talking about the general subject of "Jews being around in Europe for a long time". We are talking about the specific subject of huge numbers of Jews concentrated in the mechanisms and pulling the levers and producing the financing for the Russian Revolution (as well as the French Revolution and many others). We are talking about whether this vastly over-representative collection of scheming kikes were just coincidentally "there" or were they conspiratorially running the whole show.

(Incidentally, the Jews were given the moneylending monopoly in the West by the Catholic Church during the Second Council of Nicea. It is not that they were better businessmen or moneylenders, it's just that they were given the monopoly on moneylending and it was forbidden to Christians. Thus, for over a thousand years, the Christians were required to only borrow money from Jews. With that ruling, the Popes put the People into the hands of the devil.)

This kind of "logic" just doesn't wash.
Of course it "doesn't wash" because it is your sophistry and not my logic.:) See my paragraph above which destroys your attempted swindle of replacing your "logic" with mine.

The logical conclusion would also be to support the divine right of kings. That's just plain stupid. What kind of "logic" is that?

As to financing, the Jews were financing many things, but that doesn't mean all these things originated with Jews. For example, if a Jewish banker loans Mr. and Mrs. Aryan money to buy a house, it doesn't mean that it was the idea of the Jew that they should buy that house or that buying a house is Jewish. .

Yes, Jews were financing many things and all at a profit. But we are not discussing the buying of houses, rather the subversion and destruction of entire nations and the murder of a hundred million people. These are not mixable metaphors.

However, if a Jewish banker gives a gang of Jews the money to hire some thugs who break into Mr. and Mrs. Aryan's house, steal everything that they have, murder them and then burn down the house and then return a portion of the loot to the Jew banker, doesn't that mean that it originated with Jews and profited the Jews? You seem to think not. You seem to think that those responsible for the deaths and destruction of so many, those myriads of Jews running the entire operation, are totally innocent of any blame. And further , you seem to think that even though it is proven that the Jews financed, promoted, operated and profited from Communism that this doesn't matter because it must be somebody else's fault. This is not logical. But it is what you are saying: "The Jews have their fingerprints on everything, were invovled in all stages of the operation, were the only ones who profited, but it couldn't possibly be the Jews because the Jews are innocent."

And this was the case for the various revolutions including the Russian Revolution. Jewish bankers and moneylenders gave the money (they didn't loan it) to finance any and all factions opposed to the Tsar. Twenty million in gold by the New York banker Schiff, alone! In today's money that would be about two hundred million dollars. Trotsky got ten million by himself!

As to Banjo Billy's "historical sources," many of his quotes produced in this debate don't even have sources. Many of the other sources are simply people repeating earlier assertions that were unfounded. Well, if someone else repeats a lie, that doesn't make it the truth. By that standard you can find lots of "historical sources" to "prove" the Holocaust, flying saucers from outer space, Sasquatch, and any number of nonsensical assertions.

If there are any specific sources that you object to, give the number of the post. You are still falsely asserting that some sources are objectionable to you and therefore all sources are false. Logic is not your strong point. Your use of Jew-Commie sophistries seems to be all that you know. Try to prove otherwise.

[kevinwalsh]

We are not talking about the general subject of "Jews being around in Europe for a long time". We are talking about the specific subject of huge numbers of Jews concentrated in the mechanisms and pulling the levers and producing the financing for the Russian Revolution (as well as the French Revolution and many others). We are talking about whether this vastly over-representative collection of scheming kikes were just coincidentally "there" or were they conspiratorially running the whole show.

(Incidentally, the Jews were given the moneylending monopoly in the West by the Catholic Church during the Second Council of Nicea. It is not that they were better businessmen or moneylenders, it's just that they were given the monopoly on moneylending and it was forbidden to Christians. Thus, for over a thousand years, the Christians were required to only borrow money from Jews. With that ruling, the Popes put the People into the hands of the devil.)


Of course it "doesn't wash" because it is your sophistry and not my logic.:) See my paragraph above which destroys your attempted swindle of replacing your "logic" with mine.

That's just plain stupid. What kind of "logic" is that?


If every revolution was Jewish, and that's supposedly bad, then absolute monarchism is the default choice.


Yes, Jews were financing many things and all at a profit. But we are not discussing the buying of houses, rather the subversion and destruction of entire nations and the murder of a hundred million people. These are not mixable metaphors.

There was no murder of a hundred million people.

However, if a Jewish banker gives a gang of Jews the money to hire some thugs who break into Mr. and Mrs. Aryan's house, steal everything that they have, murder them and then burn down the house and then return a portion of the loot to the Jew banker, doesn't that mean that it originated with Jews and profited the Jews? You seem to think not.

That is correct. It originates with the thugs, not the Jews.

You seem to think that those responsible for the deaths and destruction of so many, those myriads of Jews running the entire operation, are totally innocent of any blame. And further , you seem to think that even though it is proven that the Jews financed, promoted, operated and profited from Communism that this doesn't matter because it must be somebody else's fault. This is not logical.

This was never proved, and yes it is logical. If someone provides money just to earn interest, that doesn't mean they promoted the ideas of the person to whom it was lent, or the inspiration for that matter. "Communism received Jewish finance" is not the same thing as "Communism is Jewish."


But it is what you are saying: "The Jews have their fingerprints on everything, were invovled in all stages of the operation, were the only ones who profited, but it couldn't possibly be the Jews because the Jews are innocent."

And this was the case for the various revolutions including the Russian Revolution. Jewish bankers and moneylenders gave the money (they didn't loan it) to finance any and all factions opposed to the Tsar. Twenty million in gold by the New York banker Schiff, alone! In today's money that would be about two hundred million dollars. Trotsky got ten million by himself!

As I mentioned before, Trotsky hadn't even been a Bolshevik until the revolution was on the verge of success, and we was soon expelled for his betrayal.



If there are any specific sources that you object to, give the number of the post. You are still falsely asserting that some sources are objectionable to you and therefore all sources are false. Logic is not your strong point. Your use of Jew-Commie sophistries seems to be all that you know. Try to prove otherwise.

I have already listed the sources to which I object: All of them.

In many cases you didn't even list a source, and in most others it was the U.S. Government printing office. All the sources you have provided are either false or irrelevant, and I have already addressed this.

The one relevant source I have asked you have never provided: Proof that Kim Jong Il is controlled by Jewish finance capital.

You are simply begging the question. You never proved Jews financed the Bolshevik Revolution, but you proceed as if I accepted that. You never proved 100 million people were killed, but you pretend I accepted that. You hypocritically ask to which quotes I objected, when I already told you I rejected all of them. You keep repeating non-proofs hoping that mere repetition will make people believe.

[banjo_billy]

All you are proving here is that you have really, really earned your Kosher Pig Seal of Disaproval.

If every revolution was Jewish, and that's supposedly bad, then absolute monarchism is the default choice. Wrong. There are many choices and none are by default.

There was no murder of a hundred million people..
This is a minimum estimate provided by the Communists themselves given in The Black Book of Communism, 40 million killed by the Jew-Commies in Russia and another 60 million world wide.


That is correct. It originates with the thugs, not the Jews...
And when the majority of the thugs are Jews, and all of these Jews are the leaders of the thugs, paymasters of the thugs, and armorers of the thugs, then according to you, it is still not the Jews fault. You are using Jewish sophistry wherein the Jews are always free of blame no matter how wicked they are. This is Talmudic teaching you are using ... and you claim to be an Aryan!:rofl:


This was never proved, and yes it is logical. If someone provides money just to earn interest, that doesn't mean they promoted the ideas of the person to whom it was lent, or the inspiration for that matter. "Communism received Jewish finance" is not the same thing as "Communism is Jewish." It is not the same thing, but you are again using Jewish-sophistry by falsely claiming the smaller invalides the greater. I've debated with cleverer kikes than you but they all use the same frauds and swindles in their alleged "reasoning".


As I mentioned before, Trotsky hadn't even been a Bolshevik until the revolution was on the verge of success, and we was soon expelled for his betrayal. Whether he was a Menshevik or a Bolshevik (or any of the others Jewish-dominated parties) doesn't matter when both parties are dominated by the Jews. He became a Bolshevik is all that matters. Ten million dollars in gold buys a lot of power anywhere in any party. And your definition of "soon expelled" certainly overlooks his years of involvement and millions of murders to his "credit".


I have already listed the sources to which I object: All of them.
Then your objections cannot be supported since all of the sources are accurate. And even if some of them fell within the narrowest criteria of your microscopic examination, not all of them would do so. Therefore, you prove by your rejection of even the most carefully cited of those sources that your ability to find a reasonable and logical solution to this argument, is stymied by your predisposition toward falsehood and deceit.


In many cases you didn't even list a source, and in most others it was the U.S. Government printing office. All the sources you have provided are either false or irrelevant, and I have already addressed this..

Another of your lies. Look again. In all cases, the source of the quotations are cited. If you choose to claim that all of these people were liars making false statements or that the sources are false, then you only prove the stubborn deceit of your mind and not falsity of the citations. In addition, your predilection toward Communism causes you to slander the veracity of the U.S. Government, especially a Government Printing Office which in the early 1900s was not controlled by Jews? Not a valid argument, merely a slander or the reliable sources cited.


The one relevant source I have asked you have never provided: Proof that Kim Jong Il is controlled by Jewish finance capital...

Again, you make false claims and want to re-direct the thrust of this thread. Kim Jong Ill, is a secondary subject. You have enough trouble understanding the primary subject of this thread.


You are simply begging the question. You never proved Jews financed the Bolshevik Revolution, but you proceed as if I accepted that. You never proved 100 million people were killed, but you pretend I accepted that. You hypocritically ask to which quotes I objected, when I already told you I rejected all of them. You keep repeating non-proofs hoping that mere repetition will make people believe.

Oh, what tangled webs they weave,
Those who practice to deceive.

[banjo_billy]

"The more I debated with them the more familiar I became with their argumentative tactics. At the outset they counted upon the stupidity of their opponents, but when they got so entangled that they could not find a way out they played the trick of acting as innocent simpletons. Should they fail, in spite of their flagrant usage of fallacies of logic, they acted as if they could not understand the counter arguments and bolted away to another field of discussion. They would lay down truisms and platitudes; and, if you accepted these, then they were applied to other problems and matters of an essentially different nature from the original theme. If you faced them with this point they would escape again, and you could not bring them to make any precise statement. Whenever one tried to get a firm grip on any of these apostles, one's hand grasped only jelly and slime which slipped through the fingers and combined again into a solid mass a moment afterwards. If your adversary felt forced to give in to your argument, on account of the observers present, and if you then thought that at last you had gained ground, a surprise was in store for you on the following day. The Jew[s] would be utterly oblivious to what had happened the day before, and he would start once again by repeating his former absurdities, as if nothing had happened. Should you become indignant and remind him of yesterday's defeat, he pretended astonishment and could not remember anything, except that on the previous day he had proved that his statements were correct. Sometimes I did not know what amazed me the more; the abundance of their verbiage or the artful way in which they dressed up their falsehoods."


--Hitler, Mein Kampf

[kevinwalsh]

All you are proving here is that you have really, really earned your Kosher Pig Seal of Disaproval.

Wrong. There are many choices and none are by default.

Yes, not to decide is to decide. If you reject all revolutions, the default choice is the status quo.

This is a minimum estimate provided by the Communists themselves given in The Black Book of Communism, 40 million killed by the Jew-Commies in Russia and another 60 million world wide.

As I have already pointed out, the Black Book of Communism contributes nothing new. It is an anthology of existing Cold War propaganda, none of which proves any body counts. The best they can offer is Robert Conquest's statistical juggling. You can "prove" all sorts of things with such methods, including six million Jews gassed in the Holocaust.

And when the majority of the thugs are Jews, and all of these Jews are the leaders of the thugs, paymasters of the thugs, and armorers of the thugs, then according to you, it is still not the Jews fault.

This is a gross distortion of what I actually said. I said that just because Jews might finance something doesn't mean that the idea to do it is of Jewish origin. All it means is that Jew thinks he's likely to make money off it. If a Jew finances a government or revolutionary movement, he's simply implying that it's likely to succeed and will return his investment with interest. The Jew in this case is an opportunist and a parasite, not an originator of new ideas. Then again, that's been typical of Jewish behaviour.

You are using Jewish sophistry wherein the Jews are always free of blame no matter how wicked they are. This is Talmudic teaching you are using ... and you claim to be an Aryan!:rofl:

It is not the same thing, but you are again using Jewish-sophistry by falsely claiming the smaller invalides the greater. I've debated with cleverer kikes than you but they all use the same frauds and swindles in their alleged "reasoning".

Whether he was a Menshevik or a Bolshevik (or any of the others Jewish-dominated parties) doesn't matter when both parties are dominated by the Jews. He became a Bolshevik is all that matters. Ten million dollars in gold buys a lot of power anywhere in any party. And your definition of "soon expelled" certainly overlooks his years of involvement and millions of murders to his "credit".

I'm simply pointing out the difference between financing someone who aims to subvert a revolution and fails and financing a revolution itself.


Then your objections cannot be supported since all of the sources are accurate. And even if some of them fell within the narrowest criteria of your microscopic examination, not all of them would do so. Therefore, you prove by your rejection of even the most carefully cited of those sources that your ability to find a reasonable and logical solution to this argument, is stymied by your predisposition toward falsehood and deceit.



Another of your lies. Look again. In all cases, the source of the quotations are cited. If you choose to claim that all of these people were liars making false statements or that the sources are false, then you only prove the stubborn deceit of your mind and not falsity of the citations. In addition, your predilection toward Communism causes you to slander the veracity of the U.S. Government, especially a Government Printing Office which in the early 1900s was not controlled by Jews? Not a valid argument, merely a slander or the reliable sources cited.

The U.S. government has been an opponent of revolution, and it's objectivity cannot be trusted. Nothing you have stated has been proved. You are just repeating the same lies over and over.



Again, you make false claims and want to re-direct the thrust of this thread. Kim Jong Ill, is a secondary subject. You have enough trouble understanding the primary subject of this thread.



Oh, what tangled webs they weave,
Those who practice to deceive.

It was you who initially claimed that Kim Jong Il was under the control of Jewish finance capital. You can't find a shred of evidence to prove it, and you're trying to hide behind this obfuscation. Korea proves that Communism isn't Jewish.

[banjo_billy]

It was you who initially claimed that Kim Jong Il was under the control of Jewish finance capital. You can't find a shred of evidence to prove it, and you're trying to hide behind this obfuscation. Korea proves that Communism isn't Jewish.

You are the one who titled this thread. You are the one who challenged me to debate on this subject. You are the one who offers no proof of your own contentions to the contrary. You have nothing but denials, lies and deceits.

I have the evidence that North Korea is supported by Jewish finance. But there is no point in giving it to the likes of you.

"Korea proves that Communism isn't Jewish" equals the argument that "Ted Turner proves that the Jews don't control the Media" or it equals the argument that "one low-ranking Gentile in the Communist Party proves that Communism is not Jewish even though all other members are Jews".

Give it up, Fool. You have lost.

[kevinwalsh]

You are the one who titled this thread. You are the one who challenged me to debate on this subject. You are the one who offers no proof of your own contentions to the contrary. You have nothing but denials, lies and deceits.

I have the evidence that North Korea is supported by Jewish finance. But there is no point in giving it to the likes of you.

"Korea proves that Communism isn't Jewish" equals the argument that "Ted Turner proves that the Jews don't control the Media" or it equals the argument that "one low-ranking Gentile in the Communist Party proves that Communism is not Jewish even though all other members are Jews".

Give it up, Fool. You have lost.

Well perhaps you'd like to share your evidence about northern Korea anyway. I'm not the only one reading these debates. Others may be interested and convinced.

[banjo_billy]

Well perhaps you'd like to share your evidence about northern Korea anyway. I'm not the only one reading these debates. Others may be interested and convinced.

If it will make you feel any better and more content and happy for me to share this evidence for your satisfaction, then the answer is "No". :)

As far as the so-called "others who may be interested", they can read about it my book when it's published.

[Vindex]

Kevin Walsh what is your view of an ideal White society?

[Odysseus]

I love the hand that communism is dealt. At one point we are accused of being zionist (even though the USSR officially denounced it) and then at the same time accused of anti-semitism. But its not only this, but we're accused of being anti-nationalist and then super-nationalist akin to fascism.

But at any rate no one has once pointed out a specific ideological point that was uniquely jewish. And in fact if Communism were the ideology of jews why wouldn't Israel be communist? If anything jews in israel resemble you fascists nowadays, ultra-nationalist, racist, etc (speaking of the majority of course).

[banjo_billy]

More crap from the Commies.

I love the hand that communism is dealt. At one point we are accused of being zionist (even though the USSR officially denounced it) and then at the same time accused of anti-semitism. But its not only this, but we're accused of being anti-nationalist and then super-nationalist akin to fascism.

Communism is a form of Organized Crime. Just as any criminal tries to obfuscate and conceal his true activities, the Communists also hide and obfuscate their methods and goals. Their methods are any and all things (whether good or evil) that will give them their goals; and their goals are nothing other than complete power and total wealth with the People as their slaves. These goals and these methods are identical to Judaism and the methods of the Jews. So, no wonder that Communism is such an evil and criminal political cause because it was invented, promoted, financed and profited by the Jews, who are the most evil creatures to have ever walked the Earth.

Whether or not the USSR denounced or accepted anything, depended solely upon the benefit to the leaders of the USSR at any particular time; and as the times changed, the hypocritical denunciations or sly acceptances of any particular view, were and are completely changed in regard to the number one goal of Communism: complete power and total wealth by whatever means.

So, your admiration for such a corrupt and evil political system, shows your lack of any moral or ethical compass. This is why all Communists should be hung since they are so corrupt that mere imprisonment is time wasted.

But at any rate no one has once pointed out a specific ideological point that was uniquely jewish. And in fact if Communism were the ideology of jews why wouldn't Israel be communist? If anything jews in israel resemble you fascists nowadays, ultra-nationalist, racist, etc (speaking of the majority of course).

I pointed out the similarity of communism and Judaism in the above paragraphs. You are either telling lies or are ignorant of the fact that Israel was established by Communist Zionists and Leftists Jews. These were all primarily Russian Jews and other Ashkenazi kikes from Communist East Europe. Each and every one of the founders of Israel were murderers and terrorists with the Irgun and other subversive criminal organizations. Their first towns were called kibbutzim which were Communist communes set up to raise the little larval kikes with a Communist mind set. Isra-hell is, today, more Communist than it is democratic.

If you equate fascism with state control of everything and everybody, then this definition would include Communist states. Then, yes, the kikes of Isra-hell are Jewish fascists since the bandit state of Isra-hell was founded on Communist principles. However, Isra-hell is as evil or more evil than any Communist state because it is operated on the demonic principles of Judaism. While the Communists consider Man as nothing more than an animal to be beaten into submission, at least the Commie leaders included themselves as animals, also, but only as long as they were the top, superior animals who did the beating.

However, the Jews believe that not only are all non-Jews nothing but animals to be beaten into submission, but that they alone are human beings given the entire Earth as their gift from God. They are worse than Communists because they put themselves so far above all non-Jews that their cruelty and inhumanity are multiplied by the self-imposed distance. And being higher than the angels, they consider themselves so far above all other people, that any suffering, death or disease that they visit upon Mankind, is no more negative than squashing flies.

Thus, the Jews are more evil than the Communists because their mental and moral diseases are so much more acute. And while destroying the people around them they claim holiness and piety!!!! While the Communists are organized criminals, the Jews are organized anti-Human psychopaths. The Jews are sickos to the max. In the realm of religion, the devil likes to show himself as an angel of light. So, beware of Jews claiming piety.

Jesus told the Truth about the Jews.

[kevinwalsh]

Kevin Walsh what is your view of an ideal White society?
A socialist republic.

[New Scientist]

A socialist republic.

Best thread ive read in ages. I was pretty sure that communism was jewish, but you had me doubting that for a while. Also you have to wonder why the USA media and european /usa publising houses developed such blackout control. The only thing that pre-dates the current media system which required such silencing was the need to supress the truth about communism.

[Francis]

At one point we are accused of being zionist

Is that the Royal "we"?

I've yet to meet a genuine American communist (and I've met a fair few who claim they are), the majority are bored students, who talk about communism, before going home to their nice warm home, and logging on to their expensive, capitalist supplied computer.

Perhaps as a 'communist' you can explain to me how posting on the phora assists the class struggle of your brothers, or are you just taking advantage of the luxuries that have befallen you, as part of living in a capitalist state, at the expense of those same brothers?

American communists are so easy to corrupt, as they won't reject that which they profess to be fighting against, and so therefore they will never defeat it.

You are to fond of your idle chatter, in cyberspace, on the back of the goods you have earned, on the backs of those less fortunate, to ever be a true communist, so I really don't understand this "we" bussiness.

and then at the same time accused of anti-semitism.

Karl Marx was accused of anti-semitism, and he was a jew, so why is that argument so strange?

It occurs through out history.

But its not only this, but we're accused of being anti-nationalist and then super-nationalist akin to fascism.

Only using two different defenitions of Nationalism, but that's beside the point, to be fair, because you are implying that the criticsms are of a perfect ideology, rather than a flawed system, and in a flawed system it is perfectly possible to have contradictions.

But at any rate no one has once pointed out a specific ideological point that was uniquely jewish.

Well a 'point' can't be jewish, neither can an ideology be jewish, for the reason that it is an idea, and not person, and jewish relates to people.

If you mean was communism in any shape, or form, influenced by jewish people, and/or the ideas of jewish people, then of course it has been.

The existance of Karl Marx proves that.

And in fact if Communism were the ideology of jews why wouldn't Israel be communist?

And if National Socialists were anti-semitic, why was Frank Collin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Collin) jewish?

The exception never proves the rule.

In actual fact, as a failed ideology, is any country a working example of true communism?

So if communism is an ideology, of any people, how come there homeland, where ever it may be, isn't communist?

The fact that Israel isn't communist doesn't prove, or disprove, that jewish people have had an input into the thinking of communism.

Here's a question for you, if you are truly striving for an egalitarian society, why are you so determined that the jew should recieve no credit for communism?

It's clear he has had an influence, and it's easily arguable, rightly, or wrongly, that it has been a disproportinate influence, so why would you seek, in an egalitarian ideology, to remove his presence?

Is it because you wish to prove yourself better, than the 'nazis', and so you will argue for the jews exclusion?

What else will you argue, or argue for, to attain the status you covert?

Like I said, I've yet to meet a genuine American communist, it's just usually people playing at communist, to be a 'rebel'.

[kevinwalsh]

Is that the Royal "we"?

I've yet to meet a genuine American communist (and I've met a fair few who claim they are), the majority are bored students, who talk about communism, before going home to their nice warm home, and logging on to their expensive, capitalist supplied computer.

Perhaps as a 'communist' you can explain to me how posting on the phora assists the class struggle of your brothers, or are you just taking advantage of the luxuries that have befallen you, as part of living in a capitalist state, at the expense of those same brothers?

American communists are so easy to corrupt, as they won't reject that which they profess to be fighting against, and so therefore they will never defeat it.

You are to fond of your idle chatter, in cyberspace, on the back of the goods you have earned, on the backs of those less fortunate, to ever be a true communist, so I really don't understand this "we" bussiness.


The wealth we have earned has been from our work and our acceptance of it is in no way contrary to Communism. We have not earned anything from the "less fortunate." You seem to have a gravely mistaken view of what constitutes Communism. Communism is not about rejecting wealth. Communism is about receiving the full value of the work we have done, not just the small part of it we receive in wages. In the USA, as one example, the per capita income is $47,000. If you consider only those actively participating in the economy (excluding infants, students, the elderly, and housewives), it is closer to $80,000. That is how much wealth we create (and yes that includes the materials needed to run the internet; it isn't supplied by the capitalist, rather created by our work). Most of us get less than half that in wages. Seldom do we face malnutrition or exposure as a result, but there are things that our rightly ours that we ought to struggle to win, such as affordable higher education, affordable health care, and end to bringing in non-whites to undercut our wages, and an end to squandering our taxes on imperialist wars.

"Socialism doesn't mean we all travel third class. Socialism means we all travel first class."
--Karl Marx

Posting on internet fora (including, but not limited to thephora) is helpful, because it spreads ideas and exchanges opinions. It is the primary means of public dialogue in modern times. It will not, in itself, bring revolution, but it is preparatory propaganda, much as Iskra was in Lenin's time.


Karl Marx was accused of anti-semitism, and he was a jew, so why is that argument so strange?

It occurs through out history.



Only using two different defenitions of Nationalism, but that's beside the point, to be fair, because you are implying that the criticsms are of a perfect ideology, rather than a flawed system, and in a flawed system it is perfectly possible to have contradictions.



Well a 'point' can't be jewish, neither can an ideology be jewish, for the reason that it is an idea, and not person, and jewish relates to people.

If you mean was communism in any shape, or form, influenced by jewish people, and/or the ideas of jewish people, then of course it has been.

The existance of Karl Marx proves that.



And if National Socialists were anti-semitic, why was Frank Collin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Collin) jewish?

The exception never proves the rule.

In actual fact, as a failed ideology, is any country a working example of true communism?

So if communism is an ideology, of any people, how come there homeland, where ever it may be, isn't communist?

The fact that Israel isn't communist doesn't prove, or disprove, that jewish people have had an input into the thinking of communism.

Here's a question for you, if you are truly striving for an egalitarian society, why are you so determined that the jew should recieve no credit for communism?

It's clear he has had an influence, and it's easily arguable, rightly, or wrongly, that it has been a disproportinate influence, so why would you seek, in an egalitarian ideology, to remove his presence?

Is it because you wish to prove yourself better, than the 'nazis', and so you will argue for the jews exclusion?

What else will you argue, or argue for, to attain the status you covert?

Like I said, I've yet to meet a genuine American communist, it's just usually people playing at communist, to be a 'rebel'.

[Francis]

The wealth we have earned has been from our work and our acceptance of it is in no way contrary to Communism.

Of course it's not, it's not fault you've gained at the expense of others, is it?

It's the system, keeping you down, isn't it?

We have not earned anything from the "less fortunate."

Well how do you think the system works?

How do you think an economy works.

If you have gain one penny, some one, somewhere, has lost a penny, haven't they?

Therefore if you gain, it is a gain at the expense of someone less fortunate.

That's kind of basic 101 stuff.

You seem to have a gravely mistaken view of what constitutes Communism.

Not really, perhaps you do?

Communism is not about rejecting wealth. Communism is about receiving the full value of the work we have done, not just the small part of it we receive in wages.

So how do you measure that value?

Why should your value, be measured at a higher level than an other mans?

And if you are benefiting, and he is less fortunate, that is what is occuring, no?

In the USA, as one example, the per capita income is $47,000. If you consider only those actively participating in the economy (excluding infants, students, the elderly, and housewives), it is closer to $80,000.

Why should we exclude those not in the economy, for means beyond their control?

That is how much wealth we create (and yes that includes the materials needed to run the internet; it isn't supplied by the capitalist, rather created by our work). Most of us get less than half that in wages.

So?

Seldom do we face malnutrition or exposure as a result

YOU don't, but thousands of other people do, but they don't count, because you're getting your whack, right?

And that's how you see communism?

Yes, I think perhaps it's you that's unfamiliar with what constitutes communism.

but there are things that our rightly ours that we ought to struggle to win, such as affordable higher education, affordable health care, and end to bringing in non-whites to undercut our wages, and an end to squandering our taxes on imperialist wars.

So your value is greater than there's?

You are of a higher class?


Posting on internet fora (including, but not limited to thephora) is helpful

No it's not, it's just an excuse people use to justify thier hobby.

It will not, in itself, bring revolution.

Of course it won't, nor will it serve any other purpose, but hey, you enjoy it, and if someone else is paying, so that you enjoy it, then fuck 'em, hey?

Like I said, I've yet to meet a genuine American communist, it's just usually people playing at communist.

[kevinwalsh]

Of course it's not, it's not fault you've gained at the expense of others, is it?

It's the system, keeping you down, isn't it?

I haven't gained a thing at the expense of others.



Well how do you think the system works?

How do you think an economy works.

If you have gain one penny, some one, somewhere, has lost a penny, haven't they?

Therefore if you gain, it is a gain at the expense of someone less fortunate.

That's kind of basic 101 stuff.

That is completely absurd. Society gains wealth when we work for it. Labour is the source of all wealth. That's the 101 stuff.




Not really, perhaps you do?



So how do you measure that value?

Why should your value, be measured at a higher level than an other mans?

And if you are benefiting, and he is less fortunate, that is what is occuring, no?

That's a complete nonsequitur.



Why should we exclude those not in the economy, for means beyond their control?


Since we're talking about wages, yes.


So?



YOU don't, but thousands of other people do, but they don't count, because you're getting your whack, right?

And that's how you see communism?

I never said those people don't count, nor is there anything implied to that effect.

Yes, I think perhaps it's you that's unfamiliar with what constitutes communism.



So your value is greater than there's?

You are of a higher class?

I neither stated that nor is it implied.



No it's not, it's just an excuse people use to justify thier hobby.



Of course it won't, nor will it serve any other purpose, but hey, you enjoy it, and if someone else is paying, so that you enjoy it, then fuck 'em, hey?

Like I said, I've yet to meet a genuine American communist, it's just usually people playing at communist.

Logic is a stranger to you. All you know how to do is attack straw men and concoct argumentum ad hominem against people of whom you have no knowledge whatever. You are quite simply a moron.

[Francis]

I haven't gained a thing at the expense of others.

Of course you haven't.

Do you even know how economics works?

Let me take it back to primary school level for you.

Mr Stinking rich has 10 apples, Kevin Walsh has 5 apples, and Mr. Impoverished has 1 apple.

If the next year Mr Stinking rich has 10 3/4 apples, and Kevin Walsh has 5 1/4 apples, and Mr Impoverished has 0 apples anymore, where did Kevin Walsh get his extra quarter apple from?

Now, over the last few decades the rich have got richer, and the poor have got poorer, in fact they don't own any apples, they just own debt.

So, if the rich are getting richer, and therefore not losing anything, and the poor are getting poorer, and therefore losing stuff, and you're getting richer (one assumes you have disposable income), then where are you getting your money from?

It's not from the rich, who are getting richer, is it?


That is completely absurd. Society gains wealth when we work for it. Labour is the source of all wealth. That's the 101 stuff.

Oh boy, this is just embaressing.

Have you ever heard of the London School of Economics?

The London School of Economics was founded in 1895 by Fabian Society members Sidney and Beatrice Webb, Graham Wallas, and George Bernard Shaw.

It has a pretty good reputation for economics, and... here's the bit you're going to love, because usually when someone tries to educate someone else, they tend to witter on about biased sources, but hey, the LSE was Socialist!

Now, at the LSE, before the days of computers, as we know them today, they had a giant machine, that was called a computer, because it computed economic modules.

Obviously, being pre-modern computers, it wasn't all fancy graphics, and cool software, no, this machine was powered by... water!

How it worked was you transfered water from one factor, or to another factor, and watched what happened.

It was a wonderful machine, that made economics easy to understand, for absolutely anyone, even the dullest of minds could grasp economics, when they could see it working in action like that.

In fact many of the greatest economic minds, of all political colors and persuassions used this wonderful computer, to learn basic economics.

Now, let's think about this for a minute, the machine worked on the basis of transfering water, and it was fully sealed, so we were talking about a finite amount of water, no?

Do you know why that was?

Obviously not, based on your answer, but it's because the economy is finite, and measured.

You see wealth doesn't go up, and down, it gets transfered.

Let me give you an example, there's been lots of excitement in recent years about the rocketing price of gold and silver.

So, that's wealth going up, isn't it?

No!

Huh?

Oh, it's not that difficult, take gold for instance, if tomorrow someone finds a new, mega large seem of gold, then gold is less rare, less valuable, and so it's value goes down, there is more gold, but it's total worth is the same as it was before.

Getting it now?

Or another one, gold may go up, because more people are investing in it, now, that' great, yes, that means the wealth of the world is going up, right?

No!

because if they are buying into gold they must be getting money from somewhere else, which means they are selling something else, nd because they are selling that other commodity it's value is falling.

Do you get it now?

It's not wealth going up, or down, it's being transfered.

You can't just magic money from the trees, the economy doesn't work like that.

Now, to bring you back to your rather embaressing misunderstanding of how economics work, let us use YOUR example.

"Labour is the source of all wealth."

No!

You see the more you manufacture, or grow, the more you flood the market, and the more you drive the price down.

Seriously, this is 101 stuff, go grab yourself a basic book on economics, and it's all in there.


That's a complete nonsequitur.

No, it's a valid statement, it's only a "non sequiter" because you don't want to address it, because it kind of undermines your whole clap trap.

I don't blame you, I'd perhaps be claiming it didn't follow, to avoid having to try and dig myself out of such a hole, if I'd got myself in one.

Since we're talking about wages, yes.

Now, how does that follow, just because they are excluded from the job market, for reasons beyond their control, it doesn't place them outside of the economy, their value is still relevant.

A communist should know that, but hey, like I said, I've yet to meet a real American communist...

I never said those people don't count, nor is there anything implied to that effect.

Of course you did, which was why I responded in that way.

You were painting a rosy picture of "I'm alright jack", an I pointed out it was a completely false picture, painted to benefit yourself, at the expense of others, and now you're claiming that you never said these people don't count, nor implied anything to that effect, well if that's the case then why were you trying to paint them out of the picture?

You were trying to paint them out of the picture because you are not even anything remotely close to a communist, or even a common or garden socialist, and so therefore you were not wanting them in the picture, to spoil you from getting your little whack.

It's like your whole BS scenario in your earlier post, where you wittered on about the "per capita income in the USA", well guess what Mr let's play pretend communism on the internet, there are just over 300,000,000 people in the USA, and about 6,750,000,000 in the entire world, so when we look at the "per capita income of the USA" we're leaving out the vast majority of the picture.

What happens when we put the rest of the picture in?

That's right, to the majority of the world you are a fat, capitalist pig, earning far more than your fair share, and living on the back of their endevours, who they would gladly see wiped off the face of the planet, providing they could change places with you.

That's what reality smells like, but you value yourself above all these people, because, put simply, you ain't even close to a communist, and in reality, if reality ever came and bit you in the ass, you wouldn't want to be anything close to a communist, it's just something cool to play at being on a messageboard, or perhaps with a handful of like minded delusionals in some dusty hall, offline.

And while we're dealing with your previous inane post, that I dismissed quite lightly, previously, because I was hoping there would be no need to embaress you, and that you would be able to grasp basic economics 101 in my reply, let's also deal with your little Marx quote.

"Socialism doesn't mean we all travel third class. Socialism means we all travel first class."
--Karl Marx

I'm sure to anyone, who has never even given it a moments thought, that probably sounds like a right on, politically correct, fair as can be, jolly spiffing quote.

Unfortunately anyone who does give it a seconds thought can see a few flaws in it.

Ok, remember the little 101 on basic economics above?

Right, let's play it again.

Mr Upper Class has 10 apples, and travels first class!

Mr Middle Class has 5 apples, and he travels second class, it's not as good as first class, but it's moderately comfortable.

Mr Working Class has 3 apples, and he travels third class, and he's not really happy with that, as he'd rather travel in a little more comfort.

Mr Impoverished has 0 apples, in fact he owes Me Upper Class some apples, and he doesn't get to travel at all.

Now, along comes Mr Kevin Walsh, and he says, hello guys, it's unfair that some of you are not travelling first class, so what I'm going to do is introduce a system of communism, so you can all travel in absolute luxury.

Now, Mr Upper Class, he gains nothing from this, so he's kind of against the scheme, but he just gets slapped around the head, his view doesn't count for anything, and kevin Walsh redistributes the wealth.

Now, the total wealth, before Mr Walsh's intervention was a staggering 18 apples, and much as Mr Walsh likes to try and leave people out of the equation there is no denying that there are four people, and so the 18 apples are divided four ways.

Now, Mr Upper Class has 4 1/2 apples, he no longer travels first class, nor even second class, but he has some change left, when he travels third class.

Mr Middle Class has 4 1/2 apples, he no longer travels second class, but he has some change left, when he travels third class.

Mr Working Class has 4 1/2 apples, and still travels third class.

Mr Impoverished is smiling, he gets to ride the train at last.

Now, you can argue whether you think system 1, or system 2, is fairest, some will argue one, some will argue the other.

People always do argue over the fairest way to distribute wealth, but, what can't be argued is that when there are 18 apples, and four people, you ain't never going to get them all travelling first class, that's just an impossibility.

Now, the other flaw with your little "look, I read a quote by marx, arn't I clever?" quote, is that, putting aside the fact that it deals with a physical impossibility, it says Communists shouldn't pull the top down, they should build from the bottom up.

Now, lets go back to Mr kevin Walsh, again.

He lives in America, where the wealth gap has been steadily growing, where the rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting poorer, and not only that, because we don't want to exclude anyone, do we, this trend is universal, right across the planet.

So when the poorest people have nothing but growing debt, and are therefore getting poorer, and Mr Walsh has disposable income that he can spend on computers, to play on a message forum, and the richest people are getting richer, then where is Mr Walsh getting his money from?

That's right, from out the ass of the impoverished, so he's not helping the lowest class, rise to first class, nor is he even dragging those in first class down even a weeny bit, to help those in the lowest class, so he's completely ignoring the lesson that is in his own quote, but hey, it probably sounded good to quote Marx, didn't it?


I neither stated that nor is it implied.

See above, your very life implies it.

Logic is a stranger to you

Nope, you just don't recognise it when you see it.

You are quite simply a moron.

A word of advice Mr Walsh, never call a man, who knows more about a subject than you do, a moron, because when everyone then reads you know less, it's just way of calling yourself an even bigger moron.

Now is there anything else I can help you with?

I'm also quite good at teaching first grade art.

Like I said, I've yet to meet a genuine American communist, and a fool such as you isn't even one of the closest I've come across.

[kevinwalsh]

Of course you haven't.

Do you even know how economics works?

Let me take it back to primary school level for you.

Mr Stinking rich has 10 apples, Kevin Walsh has 5 apples, and Mr. Impoverished has 1 apple.

If the next year Mr Stinking rich has 10 3/4 apples, and Kevin Walsh has 5 1/4 apples, and Mr Impoverished has 0 apples anymore, where did Kevin Walsh get his extra quarter apple from?

Now, over the last few decades the rich have got richer, and the poor have got poorer, in fact they don't own any apples, they just own debt.

So, if the rich are getting richer, and therefore not losing anything, and the poor are getting poorer, and therefore losing stuff, and you're getting richer (one assumes you have disposable income), then where are you getting your money from?

It's not from the rich, who are getting richer, is it?



Oh boy, this is just embaressing.

Have you ever heard of the London School of Economics?

The London School of Economics was founded in 1895 by Fabian Society members Sidney and Beatrice Webb, Graham Wallas, and George Bernard Shaw.

It has a pretty good reputation for economics, and... here's the bit you're going to love, because usually when someone tries to educate someone else, they tend to witter on about biased sources, but hey, the LSE was Socialist!

Now, at the LSE, before the days of computers, as we know them today, they had a giant machine, that was called a computer, because it computed economic modules.

Obviously, being pre-modern computers, it wasn't all fancy graphics, and cool software, no, this machine was powered by... water!

How it worked was you transfered water from one factor, or to another factor, and watched what happened.

It was a wonderful machine, that made economics easy to understand, for absolutely anyone, even the dullest of minds could grasp economics, when they could see it working in action like that.

In fact many of the greatest economic minds, of all political colors and persuassions used this wonderful computer, to learn basic economics.

Now, let's think about this for a minute, the machine worked on the basis of transfering water, and it was fully sealed, so we were talking about a finite amount of water, no?

Do you know why that was?

Obviously not, based on your answer, but it's because the economy is finite, and measured.

You see wealth doesn't go up, and down, it gets transfered.

Let me give you an example, there's been lots of excitement in recent years about the rocketing price of gold and silver.

So, that's wealth going up, isn't it?

No!

Huh?

Oh, it's not that difficult, take gold for instance, if tomorrow someone finds a new, mega large seem of gold, then gold is less rare, less valuable, and so it's value goes down, there is more gold, but it's total worth is the same as it was before.

Getting it now?

Or another one, gold may go up, because more people are investing in it, now, that' great, yes, that means the wealth of the world is going up, right?

No!

because if they are buying into gold they must be getting money from somewhere else, which means they are selling something else, nd because they are selling that other commodity it's value is falling.

Do you get it now?

It's not wealth going up, or down, it's being transfered.

You can't just magic money from the trees, the economy doesn't work like that.

Now, to bring you back to your rather embaressing misunderstanding of how economics work, let us use YOUR example.

"Labour is the source of all wealth."

No!

You see the more you manufacture, or grow, the more you flood the market, and the more you drive the price down.

Seriously, this is 101 stuff, go grab yourself a basic book on economics, and it's all in there.



No, it's a valid statement, it's only a "non sequiter" because you don't want to address it, because it kind of undermines your whole clap trap.

I don't blame you, I'd perhaps be claiming it didn't follow, to avoid having to try and dig myself out of such a hole, if I'd got myself in one.



Now, how does that follow, just because they are excluded from the job market, for reasons beyond their control, it doesn't place them outside of the economy, their value is still relevant.

A communist should know that, but hey, like I said, I've yet to meet a real American communist...



Of course you did, which was why I responded in that way.

You were painting a rosy picture of "I'm alright jack", an I pointed out it was a completely false picture, painted to benefit yourself, at the expense of others, and now you're claiming that you never said these people don't count, nor implied anything to that effect, well if that's the case then why were you trying to paint them out of the picture?

You were trying to paint them out of the picture because you are not even anything remotely close to a communist, or even a common or garden socialist, and so therefore you were not wanting them in the picture, to spoil you from getting your little whack.

It's like your whole BS scenario in your earlier post, where you wittered on about the "per capita income in the USA", well guess what Mr let's play pretend communism on the internet, there are just over 300,000,000 people in the USA, and about 6,750,000,000 in the entire world, so when we look at the "per capita income of the USA" we're leaving out the vast majority of the picture.

What happens when we put the rest of the picture in?

That's right, to the majority of the world you are a fat, capitalist pig, earning far more than your fair share, and living on the back of their endevours, who they would gladly see wiped off the face of the planet, providing they could change places with you.

That's what reality smells like, but you value yourself above all these people, because, put simply, you ain't even close to a communist, and in reality, if reality ever came and bit you in the ass, you wouldn't want to be anything close to a communist, it's just something cool to play at being on a messageboard, or perhaps with a handful of like minded delusionals in some dusty hall, offline.

And while we're dealing with your previous inane post, that I dismissed quite lightly, previously, because I was hoping there would be no need to embaress you, and that you would be able to grasp basic economics 101 in my reply, let's also deal with your little Marx quote.

"Socialism doesn't mean we all travel third class. Socialism means we all travel first class."
--Karl Marx

I'm sure to anyone, who has never even given it a moments thought, that probably sounds like a right on, politically correct, fair as can be, jolly spiffing quote.

Unfortunately anyone who does give it a seconds thought can see a few flaws in it.

Ok, remember the little 101 on basic economics above?

Right, let's play it again.

Mr Upper Class has 10 apples, and travels first class!

Mr Middle Class has 5 apples, and he travels second class, it's not as good as first class, but it's moderately comfortable.

Mr Working Class has 3 apples, and he travels third class, and he's not really happy with that, as he'd rather travel in a little more comfort.

Mr Impoverished has 0 apples, in fact he owes Me Upper Class some apples, and he doesn't get to travel at all.

Now, along comes Mr Kevin Walsh, and he says, hello guys, it's unfair that some of you are not travelling first class, so what I'm going to do is introduce a system of communism, so you can all travel in absolute luxury.

Now, Mr Upper Class, he gains nothing from this, so he's kind of against the scheme, but he just gets slapped around the head, his view doesn't count for anything, and kevin Walsh redistributes the wealth.

Now, the total wealth, before Mr Walsh's intervention was a staggering 18 apples, and much as Mr Walsh likes to try and leave people out of the equation there is no denying that there are four people, and so the 18 apples are divided four ways.

Now, Mr Upper Class has 4 1/2 apples, he no longer travels first class, nor even second class, but he has some change left, when he travels third class.

Mr Middle Class has 4 1/2 apples, he no longer travels second class, but he has some change left, when he travels third class.

Mr Working Class has 4 1/2 apples, and still travels third class.

Mr Impoverished is smiling, he gets to ride the train at last.

Now, you can argue whether you think system 1, or system 2, is fairest, some will argue one, some will argue the other.

People always do argue over the fairest way to distribute wealth, but, what can't be argued is that when there are 18 apples, and four people, you ain't never going to get them all travelling first class, that's just an impossibility.

Now, the other flaw with your little "look, I read a quote by marx, arn't I clever?" quote, is that, putting aside the fact that it deals with a physical impossibility, it says Communists shouldn't pull the top down, they should build from the bottom up.

Now, lets go back to Mr kevin Walsh, again.

He lives in America, where the wealth gap has been steadily growing, where the rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting poorer, and not only that, because we don't want to exclude anyone, do we, this trend is universal, right across the planet.

So when the poorest people have nothing but growing debt, and are therefore getting poorer, and Mr Walsh has disposable income that he can spend on computers, to play on a message forum, and the richest people are getting richer, then where is Mr Walsh getting his money from?

That's right, from out the ass of the impoverished, so he's not helping the lowest class, rise to first class, nor is he even dragging those in first class down even a weeny bit, to help those in the lowest class, so he's completely ignoring the lesson that is in his own quote, but hey, it probably sounded good to quote Marx, didn't it?



See above, your very life implies it.



Nope, you just don't recognise it when you see it.



A word of advice Mr Walsh, never call a man, who knows more about a subject than you do, a moron, because when everyone then reads you know less, it's just way of calling yourself an even bigger moron.

Now is there anything else I can help you with?

I'm also quite good at teaching first grade art.

Like I said, I've yet to meet a genuine American communist, and a fool such as you isn't even one of the closest I've come across.

You are just proving what a dumbass you are. Everyone knows that apples and any other commodity we consume as part of the economy (for which we have to pay) is the product of human labour. There is not a fixed and finite supply of apples or any other commodity. By transforming the materials of nature with our labour, we create more. You plant more trees, you fertilize and water the existing trees, you apply pesticides, you get more apples. If the Fabians came up with this nonsense, I can see why Marxist economics got somewhere and Fabian fantasy didn't.

[Francis]

You are just proving what a dumbass you are.

No, just trying to teach you elementary mathematics.

It's funny how the guy that studied economics is the "dumbass" and the guy who just made a fool of himself is Mr smartypants, it's surprising how often that happens, in some peoples minds.

There is not a fixed and finite supply of apples or any other commodity.

Now read the post properly, numpty, that was addressed.

As more of a commodity comes on the market, it becomes less rare, and it's value falls.

Seriously, you re one stupid individual, even when the answer is in the post you can't get it.

Still, it spoils your little fantasy, doesn't it, and you'd rather be a dress up commie, in denial, on the internet, than deal with trivial matters such as facts.

You know, it's easy to laugh at a thread like John De Nugents, I mean with the strange prose, the wierd pictures of trees, the off-kilter conspiracy theories, and the slightly homo-erotic undertones to his musings over other men, but your witterings look stupid next to that thread.

BTW. I noticed you ignored just about every point and fact in the post, and just came out with the "dumbass" comment, to cover the fact the you obviously knew what a fool you'd made of yourself, but hey, I doubt anyone else will notice...

[kevinwalsh]

No, just trying to teach you elementary mathematics.

It's funny how the guy that studied economics is the "dumbass" and the guy who just made a fool of himself is Mr smartypants, it's surprising how often that happens, in some peoples minds.



Now read the post properly, numpty, that was addressed.

As more of a commodity comes on the market, it becomes less rare, and it's value falls.

Seriously, you re one stupid individual, even when the answer is in the post you can't get it.

Still, it spoils your little fantasy, doesn't it, and you'd rather be a dress up commie, in denial, on the internet, than deal with trivial matters such as facts.

You know, it's easy to laugh at a thread like John De Nugents, I mean with the strange prose, the wierd pictures of trees, the off-kilter conspiracy theories, and the slightly homo-erotic undertones to his musings over other men, but your witterings look stupid next to that thread.

BTW. I noticed you ignored just about every point and fact in the post, and just came out with the "dumbass" comment, to cover the fact the you obviously knew what a fool you'd made of yourself, but hey, I doubt anyone else will notice...

You didn't address anything in that post in a logical manner. I don't usually waste my time with obvious falsehoods.

[Francis]

You didn't address anything in that post in a logical manner. I don't usually waste my time with obvious falsehoods.

Yes, yes the "You suck" school of argument.

Impressive.

I addressed everything in a logical manner, even teaching you basic elementary math, but it's obvious you are an intellectual pygmy, and further more a coward, who ignores everything, and then resorts to name calling, when his limited thinking capacity is stretched in anyway.

There is nothing more pathetic than an intellectual bankrupt, who resorts to name calling when he knows he's wrong.

Being wrong, can be an embaressment, but being wrong, and in denial about it is so much lower.

[Francis]

Seeing as Mr Walsh provides such an easy target, to expose certain flaws in some peoples thinking, I might as well continue.

I know he's to much of a coward to fight back, and will no doubt resort to more silly name calling, but that doesn't mean there isn't merit in exposing more of the fallacies in his inane drivel.

...and end to bringing in non-whites to undercut our wages

Considering how often he prattles on about the value of labor, you'd not expect to find the line above, which clearly indicates one of the points I raised earlier, and that Walsh decided to duck, instead choosing to throw out silly insults.

As I pointed out, when more of a commodity comes on the market, it becomes less rare, and it's value falls.

The same is true with that commodity we call labor, and this is one of the main reasons that very rich capitalists are keen to import foreign labor, because, just as Mr Walsh recognizes, they are then able to undercut our wages, because, the more you bring in, the more there is a surplus, the less their value and worth.

One of the very issues that Walsh raises, demonstrates the fallacy of true communism.

It's as I said earlier, I've yet to meet a real American communist, and Walsh provides a perfect example of that, he is the typical American communist, someone who wants a higher wage (much as most capitalists do), and has studied a smattering of communist literature, but not actually checked the "facts" he is reading, and then proceeded to call himself a communist, whilst actually worshiping something that runs contrary to communism, and is more akin to a form of quasi-capitalism, built around class envy, at the expense of others (of a lower social standing).

When looking at people like Walsh I'm reminded of "Vindicating Lincoln: Defending the Politics of Our Greatest President" by Thomas L. Krannawitter, which is perhaps fitting given Marx support of Lincoln, but the reason I am reminded of it is because of the following:

"First, the latest iterations of European philosophy during the antebellum period were to be found in the writings of G.W.F. Hegel and Charles Darwin, whose teachings, when transported to the United States, were often interpreted as justifications for, not arguments against, black slavery"

It's a much cited passage, mainly because Darwin did not discuss human evolution until The Descent of Man in 1871, and yet it's a mistake made more than once in the book.

So how was this error made?

We can find the answer to that from Krannawitters own pen.

"I (Krannawitter) believe in honesty in advertising, and I therefore disclose to the reader that I am a student of Jaffa's. To be fair, I should have concluded almost every paragraph with a footnote acknowledging Jaffa's teaching, but I knew that the reader would tire of it, so let me state here that Jaffa's influence is present throughout the book."

Jaffa makes exactly the same mistake, in his writings, and it has not occurred to Krannawitter to check the claims of his revered teacher.

The same is true of the majority of American communists, they merely regurgitate the same errors repeatedly, rather than checking the facts for themselves.

They are a brainwashed little cult, who have bought into other peoples fallacies, then perpetuate them, by regurgitating them themselves.

Had they actually bothered to study little things like economics, or politics, etc., they'd know how flawed their words were, but instead they come to rely completely on communist sources, who all exist to support each other, and to question nothing.

This thread, and Walsh's breakdown in this thread, shows exactly what happens when someone throws a monkey wrench into the works, by actually introducing facts.

Despite the facts being universally recognized basic economics, Walsh, completely unable to cope with the breakdown of his ideology, resorts to ad hominem attacks, and reveals his intellectual bankruptcy.

Outside of the dress-up, role play, quasi-capitalist, wannabe American communists, even most communists around the world now acknowledge that true communism is inherently flawed, and unworkable, and so thus adhere to forms of revised communism, or extreme socialism.

[kevinwalsh]

Seeing as Mr Walsh provides such an easy target, to expose certain flaws in some peoples thinking, I might as well continue.

I know he's to much of a coward to fight back, and will no doubt resort to more silly name calling, but that doesn't mean there isn't merit in exposing more of the fallacies in his inane drivel.



Considering how often he prattles on about the value of labor, you'd not expect to find the line above, which clearly indicates one of the points I raised earlier, and that Walsh decided to duck, instead choosing to throw out silly insults.

As I pointed out, when more of a commodity comes on the market, it becomes less rare, and it's value falls.

The same is true with that commodity we call labor, and this is one of the main reasons that very rich capitalists are keen to import foreign labor, because, just as Mr Walsh recognizes, they are then able to undercut our wages, because, the more you bring in, the more there is a surplus, the less their value and worth.

One of the very issues that Walsh raises, demonstrates the fallacy of true communism.

It's as I said earlier, I've yet to meet a real American communist, and Walsh provides a perfect example of that, he is the typical American communist, someone who wants a higher wage (much as most capitalists do), and has studied a smattering of communist literature, but not actually checked the "facts" he is reading, and then proceeded to call himself a communist, whilst actually worshiping something that runs contrary to communism, and is more akin to a form of quasi-capitalism, built around class envy, at the expense of others (of a lower social standing).

When looking at people like Walsh I'm reminded of "Vindicating Lincoln: Defending the Politics of Our Greatest President" by Thomas L. Krannawitter, which is perhaps fitting given Marx support of Lincoln, but the reason I am reminded of it is because of the following:

"First, the latest iterations of European philosophy during the antebellum period were to be found in the writings of G.W.F. Hegel and Charles Darwin, whose teachings, when transported to the United States, were often interpreted as justifications for, not arguments against, black slavery"

It's a much cited passage, mainly because Darwin did not discuss human evolution until The Descent of Man in 1871, and yet it's a mistake made more than once in the book.

So how was this error made?

We can find the answer to that from Krannawitters own pen.

"I (Krannawitter) believe in honesty in advertising, and I therefore disclose to the reader that I am a student of Jaffa's. To be fair, I should have concluded almost every paragraph with a footnote acknowledging Jaffa's teaching, but I knew that the reader would tire of it, so let me state here that Jaffa's influence is present throughout the book."

Jaffa makes exactly the same mistake, in his writings, and it has not occurred to Krannawitter to check the claims of his revered teacher.

The same is true of the majority of American communists, they merely regurgitate the same errors repeatedly, rather than checking the facts for themselves.

They are a brainwashed little cult, who have bought into other peoples fallacies, then perpetuate them, by regurgitating them themselves.

Had they actually bothered to study little things like economics, or politics, etc., they'd know how flawed their words were, but instead they come to rely completely on communist sources, who all exist to support each other, and to question nothing.

This thread, and Walsh's breakdown in this thread, shows exactly what happens when someone throws a monkey wrench into the works, by actually introducing facts.

Despite the facts being universally recognized basic economics, Walsh, completely unable to cope with the breakdown of his ideology, resorts to ad hominem attacks, and reveals his intellectual bankruptcy.

Outside of the dress-up, role play, quasi-capitalist, wannabe American communists, even most communists around the world now acknowledge that true communism is inherently flawed, and unworkable, and so thus adhere to forms of revised communism, or extreme socialism.

More childish sophistry from Francis. Bringing in workers in worse conditions to undercut people's wages is an old practice. It does not alter the value that the workers create, only the surplus value extracted by the capitalist. The surplus value increases as the necessary value decreases. Example: Joe White works for $10 per hour and in that hour produces goods and/or services that sell for $20. Jose Mexican will do the same job for $7 per hour. The boss gets $13 profit per man-hour instead of $10. Who benefits? The boss, not Joe White.

It does, however, show that capitalism is incompatable with white nationalism. Capitalists will go to any length to increase profit, including bringing non-whites into white countries and destroying their national and racial character. This, of course, will eventually doom white civilisation and therefore modern industrial capitalism itself, as inferior races mix with the races that have been the source of intellect and innovation for mankind. This is, of course, something Marx had not anticipate, but which Hitler did (though Hitler showed himself objectively to be no friend to white people in practice).

[Francis]

More childish sophistry from Francis.

As predicted, more ad hominem attacks from Mr Walsh.

Bringing in workers in worse conditions to undercut people's wages is an old practice.

No ones disputing that, it may tell you in your little manual that people are disputing that, but in real life they are not.

It does not alter the value that the workers create

Oh dear, time for some more elementary math for Mr Walsh.

A farmer grows apples, which he sells to ten people.

Each of those ten people only want one apple.

It's not that they have anything against apples, per se, it's just that a man can only possibly eat so many apples, and these ten people have a limit of one a day.

Now the farmer employs one worker to pick the apples, and being a philanthropic soul chooses to make no profit from his apples, so if he pays his picker $10, he can sell the apples at $1 each.

Now, if the farmer employs ten workers, to pick apples, and still chooses to make no profit, if he pays them the same wage, as the first worker was paid, he has to pay $100, now to sell his ten apples, and to stop himself getting into debt, he has to charge $10 an apple, either that, or he can keep the price at $1 an apple, and only pay each worker $1 for picking them.

See how it works yet?

It doesn't matter how many apples that worker #1 picks, or how hard he works, if the farmer charged $1 an apple, the value of his efforts have fallen from $10, to $1.

only the surplus value extracted by the capitalist.

See above, our farmer wasn't even making a profit.

Example: Joe White works for $10 per hour and in that hour produces goods and/or services that sell for $20. Jose Mexican will do the same job for $7 per hour.

Oh dear, but you are ignoring the point, why will Jose mexican do the same job for $7 an hour?

Think about it, please, because when you don't think you just continue to prove you are a moron.

The answer was even in the post you were replying to:

"As I pointed out, when more of a commodity comes on the market, it becomes less rare, and it's value falls.

The same is true with that commodity we call labor, and this is one of the main reasons that very rich capitalists are keen to import foreign labor, because, just as Mr Walsh recognizes, they are then able to undercut our wages, because, the more you bring in, the more there is a surplus, the less their value and worth."

If there is 100% full employment, and even unfilled jobs, then workers are rare, and therefore their value is higher, and so their wages are higher.

Is that really beyond your understanding?

Seriously, school kids get this.

Now, if you flood the market, and have high unemployment, and millions of immigrants crossing the border, then you have a surplus of workers, so their value is low, and their wages are lower.

Jose Mexican works for $7 an hour, because he needs to feed his children, so he will accept the market value for his labor.

If you remove Jose Mexican, then the market value rises, and so you have to employ Joe White for $10 an hour, or the job remains vacant, and the work doesn't get done.

These basic facts exist under any government, even a communist one (see the example above, where our apple pickers wage decreased, regardless of the non-capitalist nature of his employer).

The boss gets $13 profit per man-hour instead of $10. Who benefits? The boss, not Joe White.

Duh! Of course the boss benefits, he's not running a charity, but also YOU benefit, because you get to buy a computer, with which you can get online, and make a complete fool of yourself, on messageboards.


It does, however, show that capitalism is incompatable with white nationalism. Capitalists will go to any length to increase profit, including bringing non-whites into white countries and destroying their national and racial character. This, of course, will eventually doom white civilisation and therefore modern industrial capitalism itself, as inferior races mix with the races that have been the source of intellect and innovation for mankind. This is, of course, something Marx had not anticipate

Of course he didn't, economically speaking he was a complete retard, as has been demonstrated in this thread.

He didn't even understand the basics, which is why he developed an ideology that was so fundementally flawed that it's completely laughable, and why I pointed out earlier that outside of the dress-up, role play, quasi-capitalist, wannabe American communists, even most communists around the world now acknowledge that true communism is inherently flawed, and unworkable, and so thus adhere to forms of revised communism, or extreme socialism.

I have consistently criticized the low level of intelligence on forums over the years, it's beyond doubt, in my mind, if we were to plot forum users on the bell curve the majority would appear on the wrong side of average, but this thread is in danger of creating a complete new low for me, as I never expected to see people struggle with such fundamental basics.

No wonder you've ducked most of the points in this thread, I'm actually surprised, with the complete embaressment you're making of yourself, that you haven't signed out, and then created a new acount for yourself, and tried to deny that Kevin Walsh ever existed.

BTW. If you actually want, reading through your posts, I could perhaps tell you your real ideology, so you don't have to make such an idiot of yourself in the future.

Hint: it's not communism

Although you'll have to wait, I'm a busy man, with real things to be getting on with, and so most of the time I don't have time to waste with morons who play "let's pretend" on the internet.

I'll try to remember to return to this thread, next time I'm on the phora (I come to play about once a year), although it's a waste of my time, talking to idiots like you, there is a certain comedy value, when people are so unschooled on their own ideologies as you are.

[kevinwalsh]

As predicted, more ad hominem attacks from Mr Walsh.



No ones disputing that, it may tell you in your little manual that people are disputing that, but in real life they are not.



Oh dear, time for some more elementary math for Mr Walsh.

A farmer grows apples, which he sells to ten people.

Each of those ten people only want one apple.

It's not that they have anything against apples, per se, it's just that a man can only possibly eat so many apples, and these ten people have a limit of one a day.

Now the farmer employs one worker to pick the apples, and being a philanthropic soul chooses to make no profit from his apples, so if he pays his picker $10, he can sell the apples at $1 each.

Now, if the farmer employs ten workers, to pick apples, and still chooses to make no profit, if he pays them the same wage, as the first worker was paid, he has to pay $100, now to sell his ten apples, and to stop himself getting into debt, he has to charge $10 an apple, either that, or he can keep the price at $1 an apple, and only pay each worker $1 for picking them.

See how it works yet?

It doesn't matter how many apples that worker #1 picks, or how hard he works, if the farmer charged $1 an apple, the value of his efforts have fallen from $10, to $1.



See above, our farmer wasn't even making a profit.



Oh dear, but you are ignoring the point, why will Jose mexican do the same job for $7 an hour?

Think about it, please, because when you don't think you just continue to prove you are a moron.

The answer was even in the post you were replying to:

"As I pointed out, when more of a commodity comes on the market, it becomes less rare, and it's value falls.

The same is true with that commodity we call labor, and this is one of the main reasons that very rich capitalists are keen to import foreign labor, because, just as Mr Walsh recognizes, they are then able to undercut our wages, because, the more you bring in, the more there is a surplus, the less their value and worth."

If there is 100% full employment, and even unfilled jobs, then workers are rare, and therefore their value is higher, and so their wages are higher.

Is that really beyond your understanding?

Seriously, school kids get this.

Now, if you flood the market, and have high unemployment, and millions of immigrants crossing the border, then you have a surplus of workers, so their value is low, and their wages are lower.

Jose Mexican works for $7 an hour, because he needs to feed his children, so he will accept the market value for his labor.

If you remove Jose Mexican, then the market value rises, and so you have to employ Joe White for $10 an hour, or the job remains vacant, and the work doesn't get done.

These basic facts exist under any government, even a communist one (see the example above, where our apple pickers wage decreased, regardless of the non-capitalist nature of his employer).



Duh! Of course the boss benefits, he's not running a charity, but also YOU benefit, because you get to buy a computer, with which you can get online, and make a complete fool of yourself, on messageboards.



Of course he didn't, economically speaking he was a complete retard, as has been demonstrated in this thread.

He didn't even understand the basics, which is why he developed an ideology that was so fundementally flawed that it's completely laughable, and why I pointed out earlier that outside of the dress-up, role play, quasi-capitalist, wannabe American communists, even most communists around the world now acknowledge that true communism is inherently flawed, and unworkable, and so thus adhere to forms of revised communism, or extreme socialism.

I have consistently criticized the low level of intelligence on forums over the years, it's beyond doubt, in my mind, if we were to plot forum users on the bell curve the majority would appear on the wrong side of average, but this thread is in danger of creating a complete new low for me, as I never expected to see people struggle with such fundamental basics.

No wonder you've ducked most of the points in this thread, I'm actually surprised, with the complete embaressment you're making of yourself, that you haven't signed out, and then created a new acount for yourself, and tried to deny that Kevin Walsh ever existed.

BTW. If you actually want, reading through your posts, I could perhaps tell you your real ideology, so you don't have to make such an idiot of yourself in the future.

Hint: it's not communism

Although you'll have to wait, I'm a busy man, with real things to be getting on with, and so most of the time I don't have time to waste with morons who play "let's pretend" on the internet.

I'll try to remember to return to this thread, next time I'm on the phora (I come to play about once a year), although it's a waste of my time, talking to idiots like you, there is a certain comedy value, when people are so unschooled on their own ideologies as you are.

Nothing Francis has said about market value alters the fact that the workers create that value. This is simply the correct but incomplete bourgeois economic theory upon which Marx built his economic theory. Naturally market value is not a static thing. It depends upon productivity, and when an economy expands, the necessary value declines (which contradicts his own earlier contention about there being a fixed quantity of commodities in the world and his contention that if someone had more apples it meant someone else had fewer).

My ideology is Communism, and that is very clear from my posts. I'm not going away or changing my identity. I'm too well known, even if I wanted to do that.

[Transcendentally Challenged]

\

Well how do you think the system works?

How do you think an economy works.

If you have gain one penny, some one, somewhere, has lost a penny, haven't they?

Therefore if you gain, it is a gain at the expense of someone less fortunate.

That's kind of basic 101 stuff.



The way I see it, this is false, since it presupposes money to be some sort of a finite commodity, while inmodern world, where fiat currency rules, money is nothing more than a 'sign' of value, the amount thereof can easily be changed by the printing press and the real value being labour and the consequences of labour - products.

And the more pennies are earned, the MORE pennies everybody has, if the amount of pennies paid is in accordance or higher than productivity of the worker.

So when Joe actually does some work and earns 7 bucks, it is the right time for the government to print some additional 7 bucks, to avoid deflation of currency, which is now supported by additional labor supported by extra 7 bucks.

[TheOne]

What is the difference between aryan communism and regular communism? Is there a racial aspect to aryan communism ? Wouldn't that make it national socialism instead?

[kevinwalsh]

What is the difference between aryan communism and regular communism? Is there a racial aspect to aryan communism ? Wouldn't that make it national socialism instead?

The historical National Socialism (Germany, 1933-1945) was not, in fact socialism. The means of production were not collectively owned. There was considerable regulation, but not public ownership of the means of production. Certainly there were improvements in conditions for German workers. Unemployment was abolished, and certain amenities that had previously been out of reach of German workers were made available to them through the Strength Through Joy programme. The ownership and direction of society, however, was distinctly bourgeois. It was essentially an attempt at class peace, but to keep workers appeased and keep the bourgeoisie in the money ultimately required predatory imperialist wars. That was the undoing of National Socialism.

I don't think there is any particularly racial aspect to communism. It's just that socialism everywhere conforms to the particular national characteristics of each nation. Socialism in Korea, for example, was different from socialism in Russia, which was in turn different from socialism in Cuba. To the extent that differences in national characteristics are dictated by racial differences, that is the extent of racial influence.

I object to those who claim to be communists and promote national nihilism, in the form of immigration and miscegenation. These things only destroy the character of the whole people and aid the imperialist grand-bourgeoisie.

[TheOne]

I ask because I was looking at a site and saw this:


Independent History and Research No. 5
Céline the Impossible: Anti-Humanist Prophet of Aryan Communism. A profile of the extreme white, visionary French philosopher-writer who believed that European people can only survive by adopting a communal type of national socialism.


I also know Marx was racist against blacks and did not have many good things to say about Jews even though he was one himself.

[kevinwalsh]

I ask because I was looking at a site and saw this:


Independent History and Research No. 5
Céline the Impossible: Anti-Humanist Prophet of Aryan Communism. A profile of the extreme white, visionary French philosopher-writer who believed that European people can only survive by adopting a communal type of national socialism.


I also know Marx was racist against blacks and did not have many good things to say about Jews even though he was one himself.

I'm afraid I've never heard of this person.

[ogenoct]

As Alexander Dugin argues: There were "good" and "bad" Jews during the Bolshevik Revolution. The good ones thought and felt (and hence were!) Russian and wanted to participate in the Bolshevik Uprising because they wanted to liberate the Russian people from the Tsarist tyranny. The "bad" Jews were the ones that thought in internationalist terms (the Trotzky variety) and essentially were the henchmen of Western capitalism. Also, even though Marx was a Jew, Engels was not, and both Marx and Engels were ardent German nationalists.

Jewish participation in the Russian and Bolshevik revolutions was very central, but it was not Jews who initiated the revolutionary process and directed it. They were used very extensively and were recruited by many revolutionary organizations, but they served not as 'masters but as shopkeepers and salesmen of the Russian revolution,' as Pasmanik said. A most interesting observation was made by the German Slavist Walter Biehahn, who said that 'the Russian Revolution found an excellent medium in Jewish internationalism to spread its ideas over the world so it would seem that all the Communist-Bolshevik movement proceeds from Jews.' According to Biehahn, this rule was only an optical illusion since the Russian revolution was an entirely Russian phenomenon. Biehahn wrote these lines in 1935 in Nazi Germany, and thus opposed the official Nazi interpretation of the Bolshevik revolution.
-- Mikhail Agursky, THE THIRD ROME

[KevinDeBurgh]

Sorry, I don't have time to read through this thread right now so I'll just post this for now :

".......* Communism was an essentially Jewish phenomenon. Not merely did the Jew Karl Marx develop the ideas, but the founders of the seminal Russian variety were practically all Jews (this is amply documented by Britton (nd)), as were most of the major figures in communism everywhere in the West. Furthermore, the Russian revolution was financed primarily by Jewish bankers in New York, and specifically by Kuhn Loeb & Co, one of whose partners, Jacob Schiff, was said by his son to have spent the then- inconceivable-sum of $20 million for this purpose (see Sutton (1974)). Schiff was apparently acting out of enmity to the tsar, an antisemite, whom he had also attempted to overthrow by financing the Japanese in the Russo- Japanese war of 1906; and from this it is no surprise that the very first law passed by the Bolsheviks when they took power was a law against "antisemitism". Bolshevism was responsible for more than 50 million deaths, many of them caused by the most fiendish tortures. Worldwide, Jewish-inspired communism has been responsible for the deaths of more than 100 million people. "Jewish bolshevism", as it was frequently called in its early days, came close to achieving world hegemony, and -- in its more subtle forms of liberalism and socialism -- may still do so.......... "

http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Jews/Jews-CaseJews.html

*Note the referenced books in the above quote are at the bottom of the webpage i.e. Britton and Sutton

[kevinwalsh]

Sorry, I don't have time to read through this thread right now so I'll just post this for now :

".......* Communism was an essentially Jewish phenomenon. Not merely did the Jew Karl Marx develop the ideas, but the founders of the seminal Russian variety were practically all Jews (this is amply documented by Britton (nd)), as were most of the major figures in communism everywhere in the West. Furthermore, the Russian revolution was financed primarily by Jewish bankers in New York, and specifically by Kuhn Loeb & Co, one of whose partners, Jacob Schiff, was said by his son to have spent the then- inconceivable-sum of $20 million for this purpose (see Sutton (1974)). Schiff was apparently acting out of enmity to the tsar, an antisemite, whom he had also attempted to overthrow by financing the Japanese in the Russo- Japanese war of 1906; and from this it is no surprise that the very first law passed by the Bolsheviks when they took power was a law against "antisemitism". Bolshevism was responsible for more than 50 million deaths, many of them caused by the most fiendish tortures. Worldwide, Jewish-inspired communism has been responsible for the deaths of more than 100 million people. "Jewish bolshevism", as it was frequently called in its early days, came close to achieving world hegemony, and -- in its more subtle forms of liberalism and socialism -- may still do so.......... "

http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Jews/Jews-CaseJews.html

*Note the referenced books in the above quote are at the bottom of the webpage i.e. Britton and Sutton

This nonsense has already been addressed here.

[Rakhmetov]

It has to be considered that many of the leading Russian Social Democrats were not very Jewish.

Trotsky came from a family of farmers. He was culturally Russified and spoke no Yiddish. Sverdlov came from Nizhny Novgorod, outside of the Pale; he attended state schools. Kamenev was born in Moscow and had a Russian mother and a Jewish father, who led him be baptized. Yaroslavsky was from Siberia.

Jews in the Russian Empire were a distinct national and social group characterized by residence in the Pale of Settlement (Minsk, Odessa, Vilno, etc), Yiddish language, and employment as artisans or merchants. Many of the leading Social Democratic Jews had no such background.

[TheOne]

I'm afraid I've never heard of this person.




Twas Louis-Ferdinand Celine, the article on him is pretty good, he said the only thing jews fear is communism without the jews. Most of the article is a discussion of his french works about jews and race and christianity, they were never published in english.

[delete]

Twas Louis-Ferdinand Celine, the article on him is pretty good, he said the only thing jews fear is communism without the jews. Most of the article is a discussion of his french works about jews and race and christianity, they were never published in english.

What you say might be true, but the common multiplum of the fear of the jews is genuine altruism among the host population.