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Donny the Punk
02-27-2006, 07:47 PM
Ziel Treblinka / "Final Destination Treblinka" (provisional draught)
By Stephen Potyondi
27 February 2006

As part of the greater Nazi effort to exterminate the Jews of Europe, the Treblinka concentration camp was second only the the more famous Auschwitz-Birkenau in terms of deadliness. With thousands of trains stocked to the gills with Polish Jews converging on it day after day for over months on end, its facilities orchestrated the annihilation of at least 800,000 of them, and quite likely more. All this we know from what remains of eyewitness testimony and physical evidence despite Nazi efforts to destroy both, and most especially train schedules whose 'final destination' declarations take on a macabre connotation with the understanding of what really occurred at the end of the line.

Before continuing, it must be noted that this paper is not intended to be an exhaustive exegesis of Treblinka. I have written it to demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt that Treblinka was an extermination camp devoted to the wholesale slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Jews within the framework of the Final Solution. Any shortcomings of detail, therefore, must needs be remedied by other treatises.

Massive and systematic executions at the Treblinka camp fell under the aegis of Aktion Reinhard (alternatively 'Einsatz Reinhard' and 'Aktion Reinhardt'), a facet of the 'Final Solution of the Jewish Question' (Endlösung der Judenfrage) devoted to physically exterminating the Jews of the Generalgouvernement of former Poland. A brief treatment is therefore in order. Its principal organiser and commander was Odilo Globocnik,a ranking member of the Schutzstaffel from 1 September 1934 onward and a recurring name in this history.

On 9 November 1939, Heinrich Himmler, overseer of both the newly annexed Polish territories and director of the Final Solution, appointed Globocnik to the position of SS and police chief for the Lublin district (SS- und Polizeiführer für den Distrikt Lublin). Globocnik demonstrated very early that he was a fervent supporter of Himmler's “General plan for the East” (Generalplan Ost) to resettle the Lublin area with volksdeutsche and to extirpate its Jews to that end. So much so that on 17 July 1941, he was appointed as Plenipotentiary for the Construction of SS and Police Strongpoints in the new Eastern Area (Der Beauftragte des Reichsführers-SS für die Errichtung der SS- und Polizeistützpunkte im neuen Ostraum).1 His zeal is attested to by his contemporaries, including Jakob Sporrenberg, Globocnik's successor as Lublin SSPF after the former's departure for Trieste in 1943, among others.2 Rudolf Höß, kommandant of Auschwitz, wrote in his Krakow jail cell that Globocnik had concocted:
fantastic plans of bases stretching all the way to the Urals .... He didn't see any difficulties here and rejected all criticism with a superior sweep of the hand. Insofar as he did not need them for labour at “his” bases, he wanted to liquidate the Jews in these areas on the spot.3
At the same time, Himmler appointed Hauptsturmführer Hans Höfle as Globocnik's Chief of Operations in charge of organisation and manpower, an essential player in the upcoming Aktion Reinhard(t) programme. Globocnik was also given a staff of a few hundred men to aid him in his work, many of whom came from the T4 euthanasia programme at the behest of Dr. Viktor Brack.
"In 1941, I received an oral order to discontinue the euthanasia programme. I received this order either from Bouhler or from Dr (Karl) Brandt [Himmler's adjutant]. In order to reserve the personnel relieved of these duties and to have the opportunity of starting a new euthanasia programme after the war, Bouhler requested, I think after a conference with Himmler, that I send these personnel to Lublin and put them at the disposal of SS-Brigadeführer Globocnik. I then had the impression that these people were to be used in the extensive Jewish labour camps run by Globocnik[sic]. Later, however, at the end of 1942 or the beginning of 1943, I found out that they were used to assist in the mass extermination of the Jews, which was by then already common knowledge in the higher Party circles."4
Although many of these men were discharged from their T4 positions on 24 August 1941, they were hastily summoned back by an emergency recall two weeks later to serve Globocnik's purposes.5 Among them was Christian Wirth, heretofore inspector of the T4 programme, another key figure in the Aktion Reinhard(t) operation. That Himmler designated men familiar with the methods and technologies of gas chamber execution6 for a mass killing operation can hardly have been coincidental.

It was at some point very soon after this, in either the late summer or autumn of 1941 that the order to begin Aktion Reinhard(t) was received. No official document containing such an order has ever been recovered; however, its inception may be inferred circumstantially. Höß writes in his memoirs that in the summer of 1941 he personally received an order from Himmler to "prepare a site for mass extermination”7 because “The existing extermination camps in the East are not in a position to carry out the large 'Aktionen' which are anticipated. I have therefore earmarked Auschwitz for this purpose.”8 Although either the wording or the date of this statement isn't accurate as there were no extermination camps in 1941, it is inconceivable that Globocnik was not informed of the decision regarding the 'Aktionen' being prepared for. Furthermore, during his trial, Eichmann submitted that Reinhard Heydrich, head of the Reich Central Security Office (Reichssicherheitshauptamt) in charge of "carrying out the desired final solution of the Jewish question"9 informed him two or three months prior to the Unternehmen Barbarossa (22 June 1941) that Hitler had ordered the physical annihilation of the Jews.10 Later, Heydrich told Eichmann "to drive to Globocnik. The Reichsführer has already given him corresponding orders. Look, see how far he has gone with this project."11 Belzec, earliest of the Aktion Reinhard(t) death camps, was in experimental operation by November or December of 1941 and the first use of gassing vans is attested to from 8 December.12 The order, therefore, must have appeared sometime before this. An entry from Reich Propaganda Minister Josef Goebbels on 27 March 1942 illustrates all the implications of the Aktion.13
Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 per cent can be used for forced labor.

The former Gauleiter of Vienna, who is to carry this measure through, is doing it with considerable circumspection and according to a method that does not attract too much attention. A judgment is being visited upon the Jews that, while barbaric, is fully deserved by them. The prophesy which the Fuehrer made about them for having brought on a new world war is beginning to come true in a most terrible manner. One must not be sentimental in these matters. If we did not fight the Jews, they would destroy us. It's a life-and-death struggle between the Aryan race and the Jewish bacillus. No other government and no other regime would have the strength for such a global solution of this question. Here, too, the Fuehrer is the undismayed champion of a radical solution necessitated by conditions and therefore inexorable. Fortunately a whole series of possibilities presents itself for us in wartime that would be denied us in peacetime. We shall have to profit by this.
[Hitler in a Reichstag speech on January 30, 1939, prophesied that the outbreak of another world war would mean the end of the Jews in Europe. He then said: "I want today once again to make a prophecy: In case the international Jewish financiers within and outside Europe succeed once more in hurling the peoples into a world war, the result will be, not the Bolshevization of the world and with it a victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe."]

The ghettoes that will be emptied in the cities of the General Government now will be refilled with Jews thrown out of the Reich. This process is to be repeated from time to time. There is nothing funny in it for the Jews, and the fact that Jewry's representatives in England and America are today organizing and sponsoring the war against Germany must be paid for dearly by its representatives in Europe - and that's only right."
The former Gauleiter of Vienna whom Goebbels mentions as being the head of the operation is no other than Odilo Globocnik, the man whom Himmler put in charge of Aktion Reinhard(t). Globocnik had been Gauleiter of Vienna until 1939. Deportations to Belzec extermination camp had begun on 17 March 1942, ten days before this entry was written.

To move forward to the Treblinka death camp. There were two and a half million Jews in Poland at the end of 194114, far more than could have been killed using the firing squad tactics of the Einsatzgruppen15 or recently experimented-with gas vans.16 As Governor Hans Frank stated in a remark to a session of the GG government on 16 December 1941, “We cannot shoot these 3.5 million [sic] Jews, we cannot poison them. Yet we'll be able to take measures to destroy them that will somehow result in success.”17 The answer was found in stationary execution camps designed to kill en masse using gas chambers. Dieter Wisliceny, Hauptsturmführer SS and subordinate of Adolf Eichmann from 1940 to 1944 “as expert for AMT IV A 4 in Slovakia dealing solely with the Jewish question”18, elucidated in 1946: “According to Eichmann's own statements to me, Globocnik was the first to employ gas chambers for mass extermination.”19
Among these first employments was Treblinka-II, a concentration camp built between May and July of 1942 in the north-eastern part of the Generalgouvernement, in a remote and sequestered location ten kilometres from Malkinia Gorna, a railway junction on the main Warsaw-Bialystok line.20
[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/potyondi/treblinkamap.jpg[/IMG]
In apprehension of Treblinka's completion, Victor Brack – who had supplied the T4 labour for the earlier Aktion Reinhard(t) projects, including Belzec and Sobibor – wrote to Himmler regarding additional personnel for accelerated operations due to to begin in late July on account of the anticipated purging of the Warsaw ghetto.21
[quote]Viktor Brack
SS Oberfuehrer Berlin, IV 8, Voss-Strasse 4, 23 June 1942
[Initial] HH Top Secret To the Reich Leader SS and
Chief of the German Police
Heinrich Himmler,
Berlin SW 11, Prinz Albrecht Str. 8

Dear Reich Leader,

On the instructions of Reich Leader [Reichsleiter] Bouhler I placed some of my men — already some time ago — at the disposal of Brigadeführer Globocnik to execute his special mission. On his renewed request I have now transferred additional personnel. On this occasion Brigadeführer Globocnik stated his opinion that the whole Jewish action should be completed as quickly as possible so that one would not get caught in the middle of it one day if some difficulties should make a stoppage of the action necessary. You, yourself, Reich Leader, have already expressed your view, that work should progress quickly for reasons of camouflage alone. Both points which in principle arrive at the same result are more than justified as far as my own experience goes;
[...][/quote]
Treblinka was declared “ready for operation” on 11 July 1942 in a communiqué sent from Dr. Irmfried Eberl to Dr. Heinz Auerswald, Nazi Commissioner for the Warsaw Ghetto.22
[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/potyondi/documenttreb.jpg[/IMG]
[quote]Dr. med. Irmfried Eberl
SS-Untersturmführer
Warsaw
Palais Brühl/Head of SS and Police
Warsaw, 07.07.1942

To the
Commissary for the Jewish Quarter in Warsaw

[stamp of receipt by the Commissary for the Jewish Quarter in Warsaw, 7 July 1942]

Warsaw
Palais Brühl

Subject: Work Camp Treblinka

The work camp Treblinka will be ready for operation on Saturday, 11.07.1942.
For final completion the following objects are still needed:

1,000 clips for the lighting lead, 9 mm;
20 electrical supports with switch
20 electrical supports without switch
3 meters of conveyor[?] belt [literal translation is “drive belt”]
1 table drill press
3 kg of nut tree pickle
3 kg of pickle oak bright
1 field furnace

We request speediest delivery. The commencement of operation is not affected by the supply of the above mentioned objects, as the installation will be made able to work on a provisional basis until Saturday.

Heil Hitler!

[signature of Eberl][/quote]
Contrary to the wording of the message, the 'work camp Treblinka,' or T-I, had been completed in 1941, a year earlier. The new camp, T-II, was built a short distance from the original.23 Its dimensions were approximately 600m x 400m according to the Düsseldorf County Court which tried many of the perpetrators involved24, giving it an area of 240,000m squared which was divided into three sections of more or less equal size:
i) The “Wohnlager” or Living Camp;
ii) The “Auffanglager” or Receiving Camp;
iii) The “Totenlager” or Death Camp, i.e. the extermination area;
features among others sworn to be "absolutely correct" by Lager-Kommandant Franz Stangl in 1970.25 The extermination area was generally referred to as the 'upper camp' and the rest as the 'lower camp.'

[IMG]http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap6.jpg[/IMG]

According to eyewitnesses and camp personnel, the living camp, composing the 'left' or northernmost portion of Treblinka contained barracks for the Totenkopf SS guards and Ukrainian Trawniki who operated the facilities, along with storehouses, infirmaries, a kitchen, utility shops (carpenter, tailor, etc.) and the like. The receiving camp (SW portion) consisted of a counterfeit train station and sorting square ([i]Sotierplatz[/i]) where shipments of Jews were first admitted to the camp. It also contained a small area in the south-eastern corner called the 'Lazarett' where invalids and Jews otherwise unable to be herded into the gas chambers were shot instead.26 Finally, the 'upper' death camp (SE quadrant) contained the gas chambers and burial pits. All these sections were hidden from one another by tree branches woven through barbed wire fences.27 Unlike other camps, there were no permanent, large-scale residence facilities for Jewish arrivals; they were told that they were at a transit camp and were killed almost immediately after admittance.28 Soon after the camp's inauguration, it was discovered that it had insufficient capacities to kill the number of Jews arriving from the Warsaw Ghetto and elsewhere every day. At the end of August or beginning of September, therefore, a new set of gas chambers was erected just west of the old ones.29
Additional details can be seen in the following composite30:
[url]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/potyondi/diagram.jpg[/url]

At nearly the same time as the camp's opening - a week later - each man involved was made to sign non-disclosure forms by Globocnik's second in commant Höfle, swearing them to absolute secrecy about the project even after its termination.31
[quote]July 18, 1942
concerning the obligation of [name of person]......... as a person with special duties in the execution of tasks in the evacuation of Jews within the framework of "Einsatz Reinhard," [Operation Reinhard] under the SS Police Leader (SS- und Polizeifuehrer) in the District of Lublin.
......... [Name] declares:
I have been thoroughly informed and instructed by SS Hauptstuermfuhrer Hoefle, as Commander of the main division of "Einsatz Reinhard" of the SS and Police Leader in the District of Lublin:
1. that I may not under any circumstances pass on any form of information, verbally or in writing, on the progress, procedure or incidents in the evacuation of Jews to any person outside the circle of the "Einsatz Reinhard" staff;
2. that the process of the evacuation of Jews is a subject that comes under "Secret Reich Document," in accordance with censorship regulation Verschl. V. a;
3. concerning the special regulations made by the SS and Police Leader in the District of Lublin in this case, with explicit reference to the fact that these regulations are "Orders concerning Duties," and/or "Orders and Prohibitions" in accordance with Para. 92b of R.St.G.B.;
4. that there is an absolute prohibition on photography in the camps of "Einsatz Reinhard";
5. concerning Para. 88 through 93 of R.St.G.B., of the formulation of April 24, 1934, and the Regulation on Bribery and Revealing of Secrets on the part of Persons who are not in Official Employ, of May 3, 1917, and February 12, 1920;
6. concerning the paragraphs of R.St.G.B. 139 (Duty to Lay Information) and 353c (Breach of the Official Secrets Act).
I am familiar with the above Regulations and Laws and am aware of the responsibilities imposed upon me by the task with which I have been entrusted. I promise to observe them to the best of my knowledge and conscience. I am aware that the obligation to maintain secrecy continues even after I have left the Service.”[/quote]
This constitutes a second official instance of activities surrounding Treblinka and Aktion Reinhard(t) being classified top secret, with others to come. The reasons for doing so could not have been clearer. On 19 July 1942, the very next day, Heinrich Himmler ordered the completion of the Final Solution in the Generalgouvernement.32
[quote]I herewith order that the resettlement of the entire Jewish population of the Government-General be carried out and completed by December 31, 1942.

From December 31, 1942, no persons of Jewish origin may remain within the Government-General, unless they are in collection camps in Warsaw, Cracow, Czestochowa, Radom, and Lublin. All other work on which Jewish labor is employed must be finished by that date, or, in the event that this is not possible, it must be transferred to one of the collection camps.

These measures are required with a view to the necessary ethnic division of races and peoples for the New Order in Europe, and also in the interests of the security and cleanliness of the German Reich and its sphere of interest. Every breach of this regulation spells a danger to quiet and order in the entire German sphere of interest, a point of application for the resistance movement and a source of moral and physical pestilence.
For all these reasons a total cleansing is necessary and therefore to be carried out. Cases in which the date set can not be observed will be reported to me in time, so that I can see to corrective action at an early date. All requests by other offices for changes or permits for exceptions to be made must be presented to me personally.
Heil Hilter!
H. Himmler[/quote]
Three days later, the "Great Resettlement Action" ([i]"Große Umsiedlungsaktion"[/i]) of the Warsaw Ghetto began33, under the auspices of [i]SS- und Polizeiführer Warschau[/i] Ferdinand v. Sammern-Frankenegg, [i]Kommandeur der Sicherheitspolizei und des Sicherheitsdienstes in Warschau[/i], Dr Ludwig Hahn and - most significantly - now [i]SS-Sturmbannführer[/i] Hermann Höfle who acted as representative of Odilo Globocnik, head of Aktion Reinhard(t). It entailed massive deportations of Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto, but not to the Russian east. A letter sent on 28 July from State Secretary of the Reich Transport Ministry Ganzenmüller to the then chief of Himmler’s staff, SS-Obergruppenführer Wolff tells us where the transports were going34:
[quote]Secret

Dear Party Comrade Wolff!

With reference to our phone conversation on 16.7.1942 I hereby transcribe the following report of our Gerneral Direction of Eastern Railways (Gedob) in Cracow for your information:
“Since 22.7. a train with 5 000 Jews goes daily from Warsaw via Malkinia to Treblinka. Furthermore there is a train with 5 000 Jews going from Przemysl to Belzec twice a week. Gedob is constantly in touch with the security service in Cracow, who agrees that the transports from Warsaw via Lublin to Sobibor (near Lublin) rest as long as the conversion works on this line make transports impossible (until October 1942)”
The trains are agreed with the commander of the Security Police in the General Government. The Head of SS and Police for the Lublin district, SS-Brigadeführer Globocnik, has been informed.

Heil Hitler!
Your truly
signed Ganzenmüller[/quote]
This document tells us the following:
i) People were being taken to Treblinka at a rate of 5,000 per day since 22 July 1942;
ii) Treblinka was the final destination of these transports

A glimpse of their fates can be gleaned from a posterior document, The Stroop Report of 1943. It is relevant insofar as its references to "T-II" (Treblinka death camp) tell us that Jews were sent there to be "destroyed," i.e. Killed.35
[quote][b]24 May 1943:[/b]
Of the overall total of 56,065 captured Jews, about 7,000 have been destroyed in the course of the large-scale action in the former Jewish living quarter. 6,929 Jews were destroyed by transport to T. II, so that overall, 13,929 Jews were destroyed.[Emphasis mine] It is estimated that, in addition to the number of 56,065, 5 - 6,000 Jews were destroyed by explosions and fire.[/quote]
By the end of a two and a half month-long period, Stroop placed the number of Jews sent to Treblinka for extermination at over 310,000.36
[quote]It soon became clear that not all dangers had been banished by confining the Jews to one district. Security considerations necessitated that Jews be completely removed from the city of Warsaw. The first large removal occurred during the period from 22 July to 3 October 1942, when 310,322 Jews were removed. In January 1943, another resettlement operation was carried out, which encompassed a total of 6,500 Jews.[/quote]
District governor Dr. Ludwig Fischer reported that 400,000 Jews had been deported from the city and its environs during the same period of time.37 This was not all, however, as train records from the time indicate that additional shipments of Jews from Lublin, Radom and Bialystok amounting to 817,290 individuals (total, including Warsaw deportations) were being sent to Treblinka as well, until they ended on 19 August 1943 (coinciding with the uprising).38 These shipment records also usefully demonstrate that Treblinka was not a transit camp for 'resettlement to the east' as the language of Nazi correspondence implied, since Jews were, beginning 19 August, actively being sent from the east (backwards, from Bialystok!) westward there to die on the very railway which was supposedly being used to 'evacuate' them to the Soviet Union. Moreover, the Oberfeldkommandant of the Lwow ghetto made it clear in spring of 1942 that Jews were being transported westward from Galicia to the Lublin district and not the other way around.39
[quote]Within the Jewish population of Lemberg a noticeable unrest has spread in regard to a deportation action that has begun, through which some 30,000 elderly and other unemployed Jews shall be seized and allegedly transferred to a territory near Lublin. To what extent this evacuation can be equated with a decimation remains to be seen.[/quote]
Their fate was also made abundantly clear by the same40:
[quote]The resettlement actions continue undiminished. The Jews are informed of their fate. Indicative is the statement of a member of the Lwow Jewish council: We all carry our death certificates in our pocket--only the date of death is not yet filled out.[/quote]
An ancillary document intercepted by the British decoding service at Bletchley Park, the so-called 'Höfle memorandum,' corroborates the increased death tolls.41
[img]http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/pic/bighoefletele.jpg[/img]
[quote]13/15. OLQ de OMQ 1005 83 234 250

State Secret!

To the Senior Commander of the Security Police [and the Security Service], for the attention of SS Obersturmbannfuhrer HEIM, CRACOW.

Subject: fortnightly report Einsatz REINHART.

Reference: radio telegram therefrom.

recorded arrivals until December 31, 42,

L [Lublin] 12,761,

B [Belzec] 0,

S [Sobibor] 515,

T [Treblinka] 10 335 [,]

together 23 611

sum total…[as per] December 31, 42,

L 24 733,

B 434 508,

S 101 370,

T 71 355, read: 713 555]

together 1 274 166

SS and Police Leader Lublin, HOFLE, Sturmbannfuhrer [/quote]
This document tells us that 713,555 Jews from the Polish General Government arrived at "T" (Treblinka) until 31 December 1942. It also tells us where one of the key figures in the report of Himmler’s statistician Richard Korherr came from. The Korherr report, prepared at Himmler's request, were actually two, a “long” one for Himmler and a “short” one for Hitler himself.42 A translation yields the following passage:
[quote]"4. Transportation of Jews from the

eastern provinces to the Russian

East: ............................ 1 449 692 "

The following numbers were sifted

through the camps in the General

government ............. ........ 1 274 166 Jews

through the camps in the Warthegau..... 145 301 Jews"[/quote]
The "camps in the Warthegau" was Chelmno and the "camps in the General Government" were the aforementioned Aktion Reinhard(t) camps Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka and the Lublin-Majdanek camp, the latter obviously because it was considered more practical to send Jews from Lublin to Majdanek as soon as that camp had extermination facilities instead of sending them to far-away Belzec or Sobibor. The figure of 1,274,166 Jews mentioned in that report is evidently the figure from the above quoted Höfle memorandum, which means that Korherr’s figure is broken down as follows:

Lublin-Majdanek 24,733

Belzec 434,508

Sobibor 101,370

Treblinka 713,555

Total 1,274,166

In the original version of the report, Korherr used the term "Sonderbehandlung", i.e. "special treatment", with regard to the Jews mentioned in this section of his report. This term, which was a bureaucratic euphemism for killing commonly used in the context of the Final Solution43, must have become too worn and thus transparent by the time Korherr submitted his report to Himmler, for which reason Himmler’s adjutant Karl Brandt, in a letter dated 10 April 1943 required Korherr to refrain from using the term "Sonderbehandlung" and to word the quoted paragraph as it was finally worded.44

[img]http://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/korherr/faksimile-himmler/anweisung-himmler.jpg[/img]
[quote]
The Reichsführer SS
S[outh] Field Command Post 10.4.1943
Tgb. Nr. [stamped: state secret]
-V.

2. Draughts
2. Draughting

To the inspector of statistics, PG. Korherr
B e r l i n

The Reichsführer SS has reviewed your statistical report on "the final solution of the Jewish question in Europe." He wishes that the term "special treatment of the Jews" be nowhere be mentioned. Page 9, point 4, must read as follows:

"Transportation of Jews from the
eastern provinces to the Russian East:
The following numbers were sifted
through the camps in the General
government .....
through the camps in the Warthegau ..............."

No other formulation may be used. I have sent the copy of the report already draughted to the Reichsführer SS with the request to amend page 9 accordingly and send it back again.

SS-Obersturmbannführer

1 brief[/quote]
A final document, though it gives no exact indications of numbers, is illustrative when it comes to determining just how many Jews were being killed. It is the remark of the Wehrmacht commander of Ostrow recorded in the first war diary of the General Quartermaster of the Military Commander in the Generalgouvernement on 24 October 1942.

[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/potyondi/ostrow.jpg[/IMG]

It reads: “OK Ostrow reports that the Jews in Treblinka are not sufficiently buried and therefore an unbearable smell of corpses befouls the air.”45 Ostrow, it should be noted, was 20 kilometres from Treblinka.

At least over 800,000 Jews (and likely far more as many train records are incomplete or lack head counts) were shipped to Treblinka in the space of a year for 'special treatment'; 'evacuation'; 'liquidation'; 'resettlement'; murder, with only a handful ever seen again. Such creative language had long been used to attempt to disguise killing operations of Jews in the east, most notably by the Einsatzgruppen but also by the Gendarmerie.46 In this light, a decision arrived at in Lublin on 17 October 1941 by Hans Frank and Odilo Globocnik among others helps us date the birth of the extermination programme, theorised about above.47
[quote]All Jews, with the exception of indispensable craftsmen and the like, are to be evacuated from Lublin. Initially, 1,000 Jews will be transferred across the Bug River. Responsibility for this is placed in the hands of the SSPF. The Stadthauptmann will select the Jews to be evacuated.[/quote]
The term 'transferred across the Bug River' was a watchword in use from before the German invasion of Russia and hence anachronistic at the time (territory across the Bug being Soviet in 1939/40), its meaning surely not intended literally in the context of the Jewish extermination operations which were already being adumbrated.48

As SS-Sergeant and camp guard Franz Suchomel put it, "Treblinka was a primitive but efficient production line of death. Understand? Primitive, yes. But it worked well, that production line of death."49 We know that Jews were being sent to their deaths, but the question of how remains. Much allusion has been made up to this point to use the use of gas chambers. Eichmann, in a paper entitled "Götzen" he submitted for his defence, wrote that "Globocnik had established gassing camps at Treblinka and Belzec upon instruction from Himmler and Krüger."50 Reference to the testimony of those present best describes what was occurring inside the camp all the while.

Testimony of SS-Unterscharführer Willi Mentz:
[quote]When I came to Treblinka the camp commandant was a doctor named Dr. Eberl. He was very ambitious. It was said that he ordered more transports than could be "processed" in the camp. That meant that trains had to wait outside the camp because the occupants of the previous transport had not yet all been killed. At the time it was very hot and as a result of the long wait inside the transport trains in the intense heat many people died. At the time whole mountains of bodies lay on the platform. The Hauptsturmfuehrer Christian Wirth came to Treblinka and kicked up a terrific row. And then one day Dr. Eberl was no longer there...

For about two months I worked in the upper section of the camp and then after Eberl had gone everything in the camp was reorganized. The two parts of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine branches were used so that you could not see through the fences. The same thing was done along the route from the "transfer" area to the gas chambers...
Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built. I think that there were now five or six larger gas chambers. I cannot say exactly how many people these large gas chambers held. If the small gas chambers could hold 80-100 people, the large ones could probably hold twice that number...

Following the arrival of a transport, six to eight cars would be shunted into the camp, coming to a halt at the platform there. The commandant, his deputy Franz, Kuettner and Stadie or Maetzig would be here waiting as the transport came in. Further SS members were also present to supervise the unloading: for example, Genz and Belitz had to make absolutely sure that there was no one left in the car after the occupants had been ordered to get out.

When the Jews had got off, Stadie or Maetzig would have a short word with them. They were told something to the effect that they were a resettlement transport, that they would be given a bath and that they would receive new clothes. They were also instructed to maintain quiet and discipline. They would continue their journey the following day.

Then the transports were taken off to the so-called "transfer" area. The women had to undress in huts and the men out in the open. The women were than led through a passageway, known as the "tube", to the gas chambers. On the way they had to pass a hut where they had to hand in their jewellery and valuables..51[/quote]
Testimony of Treblinka's second commandant, SS-Unterscharführer Franz Stangl:
[quote]Michel [the sergeant-major of the camp] told me later that Wirth suddenly appeared, looked around on the gas chambers on which they were still working, and said: 'right, we'll try it out right now with those twenty-five working Jews. Get them up here'. They marched our twenty-five Jews up there and just pushed them in and gassed them. Michel said Wirth behaved like a lunatic, hitting at his own staff with his whip to drive them on...52[/quote]
Testimony of SS Oberscharführer Heinrich Matthes:
[quote]During the entire time I was in Treblinka, I served in the upper camp. The upper camp was that part of Treblinka with the gas chambers, where the Jews were killed and their corpses laid in large pits and later burned.

About fourteen Germans carried out services in the upper camp. There were two Ukrainians permanently in the upper camp. One of them was called Nikolai, the other was a short man, I don't remember his name... These two Ukrainians who lived in the upper camp served in the gas chambers. They also took care of the engine room when Fritz Schmidt was absent. Usually this Schmidt was in charge of the engine room. In my opinion, as a civilian he was either a mechanic or a driver...

All together, six gas chambers were active. According to my estimate, about 300 people could enter each gas chamber. The people went into the gas chamber without resistance. Those who were at the end, the Ukrainian guards had to push inside. I personally saw how the Ukrainians pushed the people with their rifle butts...

The gas chambers were closed for about thirty minutes. Then Schmidt stopped the gassing, and the two Ukrainians who were in the engine room opened the gas chambers from the other side.53[/quote]
Testimony of Auschwitz camp Kommandant Rudolf Höß on 1 April 1946 in Nuremberg:
[quote]Q Didn't you visit any of the three existing extermination camps?

A Yes.

Q Which ones?

A Treblinka ...

Q What did you see there?

A At that time the action in connection with the Warsaw Ghetto was in progress, and I watched the procedure.

Q How was it done there?

A They had chambers for about 200 people. Into these chambers the fumes from an exhaust machine came in. These motors had been taken from captured enemy equipment such as tanks, trucks and had been installed next to the gas chambers. They were run by gas, and those victims were supposed to be suffocated by the fumes.

Q How many chambers were there, and how many people were killed?

A I do not know the exact figure, but there may have been about ten chambers. It was built next to a ramp and the train drove right up to it. The people were unloaded right into the chambers, and this procedure was necessary because the motors did not always work right.

Q Weren't the people first registered or interrogated?

A No.

Q They were put directly into the chambers from the trains?

A Yes.

Q And what happened to their clothing?

A They had to undress before they were put into the chambers.

Q And their valuables?

A That was all sorted. I saw a number of shacks there in which there were piles of clothing, shoes, valuables, etc., all sorted separately and neatly stacked. They were later packed.

Q What happened to these things?

A I do not know.

Q Who did the sorting?

A Inmates.

Q Who guarded the trains in which the Jews were to be gassed alive?

A The train that I saw In Treblinka arrived guarded by members of the Security Police; also the trains that came into Auschwitz from Poland were guarded by the Security Police.

Q Did the train loads consist of women, men and children all together?

A All together.

Q We are now talking about the train in Treblinka?

A Yes, the one in Treblinka.

Q Were there babies, real small children and very old people also?

A All kinds, if they were evacuated from Warsaw.

Q Now I understand from your statement that the people — men, women and children had to strip themselves completely naked. Am I right?

A Yes.

Q And the women carried their babies with them into the chambers?

A Yes.

Q And they know what was going to happen to them?

A Yes, I assume so.

Q Did they knew what was going to happen to them?

A Yes, they did.

Q And what was your reaction?

A I did not consider this problem, or the means, or the manner in which it was conducted because in my opinion they knew it was going to happen to them.

Q But you found it lawful and right that they were to be exterminated. It was only the manner you objected to?

A Yes, according to my discussions with Himmler it was the way you just stated.

Q Did anyone try to escape?

A No, I didn't see that.

Q How long did you remain in Treblinka?

A About three or four hours.54[/quote]
Höß confirms the capacity estimates of the new gas chambers built in the middle of 1942 made by Willi Mentz as being 200. Given six chambers, 1,200 people could have been gassed at a time. Assuming, therefore, Matthes' estimate of thirty minutes for each operation, to execute a trainload of 5000 would have taken just over two hours, certainly a little longer when removal of the bodies and cleaning up are considered, but nothing that would take anything approaching a whole day. 800,000 Jews could have easily been killed in 160 days at this rate (the date for the statistic of 713,555 listed in the Höfle memorandum is 31 December, 163 days from the commencement of arrivals), leaving enough time to gas a further 1,235,000 before arrivals slowed drastically in August of 1943,55 should they have been shipped there. Other estimates place the capacity of the chambers at 300 each and the duration of the gassing at 15 minutes, which would increase the efficiency of the killing operation even more.56 Obviously, the killing capacity of Treblinka is beyond questioning. Even if the demands on the Treblinka staff and their facilities had been more than doubled, the trains would have continued running on time.

A significant portion of witness testimony about the murders converges on the point of collection of Jewish valuables both before and after gassing. Unlike other extermination centres, Aktion Reinhard(t) camps did not report to Heydrich's RSHA but rather to the Economics and Administration Office or WVHA ("[i]Wirtschafts und Verwaltungshauptamt[/i]").57 On 15 June 1941, in anticipation of the imminent Operation Barbarossa, the "Nürnberger Gesetze" (Racial Laws) became valid in the eastern occupied territories, article two of which stated:
[quote]
Article 2

1. The property of a Jew shall be confiscated by the Reich after his death.

2. The Reich may, however, grant compensation to the non-Jewish legal heirs and persons entitled to sustenance who have their domicile in Germany.

3. This compensation may be granted in the form of a lump sum, not to exceed the ceiling price of the property which has passed into possession [Verfuegungsgewalt] of the German Reich.

4. Compensation may be granted by the transfer of titles and assets from the confiscated property. No costs shall be imposed for the legal processes necessary for such transfer.58[/quote]
As millions of Jews were being killed, the WVHA took an interest in such affairs with regard to their economic aspect, that being theft from murdered persons. An undated report by Odilo Globocnik conveying the value and volume of valuables accrued during these seizures gives an idea of their extent.59
[quote][Stamp]
Personal Staff Reich Leader SS
Files Administration
File No. Secret 115
[initialed by Himmler]

Valuables Turned In from the "Operation Reinhardt"

Valuables from the "Operation Reinhardt" have been handed in at the SS WVHA Berlin for transmission to the Reich Bank or to the Reich Ministry of Economy as follows:

a. RM, total value - RM 53,013,133.51

b. Foreign currency, in notes, from all main countries of the earth (particularly the half million dollars are noteworthy), total value - RM 1,452,904.65

c. Foreign currency in coined gold, total RM 843,802.75

d. Precious metals (about 1,800 kg. gold and about 10,000 kg. silver in ingots), total value -.RM 5,353,943.00
e. Other valuables such as jewels, watches, glasses, etc., in particular, the number of watches, about 16,000 watches in working condition and about 51,000 watches in need of repair, is noteworthy; they have been placed at the disposal of the troops - RM 26,089,800.00

f. About 1,000 boxcars of textiles, total value - RM 13,294,400.00

Total - RM 100,047,983.91

About 1,000 boxcars of textiles are still in stock, and about 50 percent of above-mentioned other valuables, which still must be counted and appraised. It should be stressed that the valuations given above have been established on the basis of official exchange rates and prices; commercial values are, however, much higher, for instance when selling precious stones or metals abroad, as the flight into fixed values is greater there than in our country. Moreover, sales abroad bring us foreign currency.

If these prices have been used here for evaluation purposes, then this was done in order to be able to give a survey of the delivered valuables, in general, this valuation is not so decisive.

The value of the receipts lies mainly in the fact that such large quantities of raw material, which are so urgently required, could be had and that on the basis of the seized valuables foreign currency can be secured, thus permitting Reich offices to buy more raw material.

[Signed] GLOBOCNIK
SS Gruppenfuehrer and Major General of the Police

1 detailed list attached.[Document NO-061. Prosecution Exhibit 475, pp. 699-702.]
[/quote]
All economic aspects of Aktion Reinhard(t) fell under the auspices of the Chief of the WVHA, SS Obergruppenführer Oswald Pohl. "On 4 July 1944, Pohl, in a communication to the Main Office chiefs, announced the names of officers responsible for the property seized in several areas, and stated: 'As a matter of principle, it has to be kept in mind that the entire Jewish property is to be incorporated into the Reich property.'"60 In his affidavit of 2 April 1947, Pohl explained that he was working under the direction of Himmler and directly over Globocnik to manage the economic aspects of Aktion Reinhard(t).61 He went on to declare that he was completely aware of where the valuables were coming from and of what activities they were a result.
[quote]"It was never doubted that this loot was taken from Jews exterminated in the concentration camps. * * * As I learned in 1943, gold teeth and crowns of inmates of concentration camps were broken out of their mouths after liquidation. This gold was melted down and delivered to the Reich Bank. * * * When I received all the vouchers, setting out the economic assets received, I realized the extent of the operation. I realized that the greatest part of the textile goods listed in these reports had been taken from people who had been violently put to death and that the purpose of the operation had been the extermination of the Jews."62[/quote]
In addition, "[i]n his interrogation of 13 June 1946 (NO-728, Pros. E. 693), Pohl was confronted by Kaltenbrunner's testimony before the International Military Tribunal that, 'there were only a handful of people in the WVHA who had any control or knew anything about concentration camps,' to which Pohl commented: 'Well, that is complete nonsense. I described to you how these were handled in the WVHA. As for instance, in the case of the use of textiles and turning in of valuables, and also from Gluecks and Loerner right on down to the last little clerk, must have known what went on in the concentration camps, and it is complete nonsense for him to speak of just a handful of men.'"63 Particularly illuminating is a report Pohl made to Himmler on 6 February 1943 containing a detailed list of items seized. Among them were 221 train cars' worth of appropriated clothing sent to the Office for Germanisation, useless to the dead but otherwise essential to any who would have actually been transported to the east, i.e. none.64
[quote][...]2. Office for Germanization [VoMi]

Men's clothing:
overcoats - 99,000
jackets - 57,000
vests - 27,000
pants - 62,000
drawers - 38,000
shirts - 132,000
pullovers - 9,000
scarves - 2,000
pajamas - 6,000
collars - 10,000
gloves - 2,000 pairs
socks - 10,000 pairs
shoes - 31,000 pairs

Women's clothing:
coats - 155,000 pieces
dresses - 119,000 pieces
blouses - 30,000 pieces
pullovers - 60,000 pieces
drawers - 49,000 pieces
panties - 60,000 pieces
jackets - 26,000 pieces
shirts - 30,000 pieces
chemises - 125,000 pieces
pajamas - 27,000 pieces
aprons - 36,000 pieces
brassieres - 25,000 pieces
underwear - 22,000 pieces
kerchiefs - 85,000 pieces
shoes - 111,000 pieces

Children's clothing:
overcoats - 15,000
boys' jackets - 11,000
boys' pants - 3,000
shirts - 3,000
scarves - 4,000
pullovers - 1,000
drawers - 1,000
girls' dresses - 9,000
girls' chemises - 5,000
aprons - 2,000
drawers - 5,000
stockings - 10,000 pairs
shoes - 22,000 pairs[...][/quote]
Pohl apologised for the unexpectedly low numbers and excused himself in the following way: "In this connection special consideration must be given to the fact that the delivery of rags is very high. As a result, the amount of usable old garments, especially men's clothing, is naturally diminished. It has therefore not been possible to satisfy the demand for men's clothing to its full."65 Aside from demonstrating the sheer enormity of the Aktion, Pohl's reports also shed light on just how lucrative the extermination camp system was for the Nazi state. One year, the overwhelming wealth of watches and fountain pens seized from dead inmates, along with the spirit of Christmas, prompted Pohl to request that several hundred of each should be distributed to each SS division as well as thousands to the submarine service.66 Himmler approved of the plan and suggested that another 15,000 women's watches be given to volksdeutsche entering the Greater Reich from Russia at the time.67

By this time, it was well-known in Allied government circles that the Germans were mass-murdering Jews in the camps, prompting initiatives to conceal and eradicate all traces of the Final Solution in Poland.68 Aktion 1005 was the result, a Sonderkommando effort to exhume and cremate the contents of the mass graves in the east headed by SS-Standartenführer Paul Blobel. Another concern was the health hazard posed by such extensive extermination operations, especially that of the “insufficiently buried” Jews at Treblinka whose stench must have been intolerable. Consequently, following a visit by Heinrich Himmler to Treblinka in February or March of 1943, the decision was made to cremate the bodies that had been buried.69 ”At Treblinka there were no crematoria with furnaces, but there was a primitive arrangement of grates made from rails placed on supports of reinforced concrete, which could hold 2,500 corpses. Mechanical excavators were used for digging the pits and later for the exhumation of the corpses.”70 In December 1959, at the time of his arrest, a photo album entitled "Die schönsten Jahre meines Lebens" was discovered by west-German investigators in the flat of Kurt Franz, assistant commandant of Treblinka. The album shows numerous photos of Treblinka, such as of a brick tower, of the bakery building, of the menagerie and zoological garden and of the commandant of Treblinka, Franz Stangl. Comparison with an aerial photo and the maps drawn by survivors of Treblinka and Stangl and with eyewitness descriptions indicates that the pictures to follow are showing the extermination site.71 During his trial, Kurt Franz stated that “It was during that period [August 1943] that the original camp was demolished. Everything was levelled off and lupins were planted...”72 The following is a photograph of one of the Menck & Hambrock type "Mb" excavators used during this operation, the buildings and trees in the background matching most closely with a picture taken from the 'concealed burial pit' towards the old gas chambers in a north-westerly direction with either the water pump shelter or the guard house slightly obscuring the view.73

[img]http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp27.jpg[/img]

An open burial pit74:
[img]http://www.geocities.com/potvid/exhume.txt[/img]

Once the industrial machinery was no longer needed for exhuming bodies, it was sent away. “In the waybills for the wagons sent from Treblinka at the time of the final 'liquidation' of the camp three excavators are mentioned. One of them was dispatched from Treblinka on June 29, 1943, to the firm of Adam Lamczak, Berlin-Neukölln, Willy Waltherstrasse 30-3 Tr.”75

United States Reconnaissance air photographs reveal that by 15 May 1944 (and probably long before then), physical traces of the camp were all but eradicated.76 Odilo Globocnik wrote to Himmler on November 4, 1943: "On October 10, 1943: I concluded Operation Reinhard which I had conducted in the General Government and have liquidated all camps."77 Upon their arrival in 1945, the Soviets found a moon-like wasteland of recent excavations by scavengers complementing other scars in the landscape left by the obliteration of the camp's building foundations. Most tellingly, they found among the upturned soil innumerable human remains.78

[img]http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp35.jpg[/img]

In November of 1945, Rachel Auerbach, member of the Central Commission for the Investigation of German Crimes in Poland, visited the site and reported,
[quote]in the north-eastern part, over a surface covering about 2 ha. (5 acres), there are large quantities of ashes mixed with sand, among which are numerous human bones, often with the remains of decomposing tissues.

As a result of an examination made by an expert it was found that ashes were the remains of burnt human bones. The examination of numerous human skulls found in the camp has shown that they bear no traces of external injuries. Within a radius of several hundred yards from the camp site an unpleasant smell of burnt ash and decay is noticeable, growing stronger as one approaches.79[/quote]
She also found “large human bones,' 'rotted masses of corpses,' 'pieces of half-rotted corpses,' and 'fully dressed' corpses, at the Treblinka camp site.[...] In the area where the gas chambers were supposed to have been located, the commission's team of 30 excavation workers reportedly found human remains, partially in the process of decay, and an unspecified amount of ash. Untouched sandy soil was reached at 7.5 meters, at which point the digging was halted. An accompanying photograph of an excavated pit reveals some large bones.”80

[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/potyondi/bones.jpg[/IMG]81

In 1959, Third Reich historian Martin Gilbert visited the camp and came away with this recollection: “From Treblinka village we proceeded for another mile or two, along the line of an abandoned railway through a forest of tall trees. Finally we reached an enormous clearing, bounded on all sides by dense woodland. Darkness was falling, and with it, the chill of night and a cold dew. I stepped down from the cart on to the sandy soil: a soil that was gray rather than brown. Driven by I know not what impulse, I ran my hand through that soil, again and again. The earth beneath my feet was coarse and sharp: filled with the fragments of human bone.”82

If there is a dearth of primary documents surrounding an operation of such magnitude, it is because of assiduous efforts by Odilo Globocnik and others to cover their tracks: "[w]ith regard to the complete final accounts of 'Operation Reinhard' I must add that all vouchers should be destroyed as soon as possible, as has been done in the case of all other documents pertaining to this operation."83 Anything that he or Himmler might have missed was combed over by subsequent Nazi officials: "All files, particularly the secret ones, are to be destroyed completely. The secret files about ... the installations and deterring work in the concentration camps must be destroyed at all costs. Also, the extermination of some families, etc. These files must under no circumstances fall into the hands of the enemy, since after all they were secret orders by the Fuhrer."84 That the few we have left survived at all can only be attributed to bureaucratic confusion in the face of imminent collapse before the inexorable march of the Red Army. Likewise, our paucity of eyewitness testimonial can be attributed to the fact that the vast majority of witnesses to the exterminations were killed by them. If the hundreds of thousands of Jews supposedly resettled to the east really had been sent to Russia, we would today have no end of confessions to that effect. As it stands, the fragmentary evidence we hold before us, though incomplete, paints an undeniable picture of a ruthless industrial slaughterhouse performing its task with heartless efficiency in broad strokes. Confronted with this bleakness, I am reminded of my Shelly:

[i]Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.[/i]

An unfair testament to the countless who lost their lives, but perhaps the dead find solace in the downfall of their own Ozymandias.

Donny the Punk
02-27-2006, 07:47 PM
Footnotes:

1. PRO (Tyas), HW 16/32: message transmitted 5 September 1941

2. Interrogation of Jakob Sporrenberg, December 16/17, 1949, AGK SAL 193/4, fol. 996. See
also the December 15, 1960, interrogation of Konrad G., who directed Whermacht
counterintelligence in Warsaw, Zentrale Stelle der Landesjustizverwaltungen in Ludwigsburg
(ZStL) 208 AR-Z 74/60, fol. 447, and the 1960 statement of a former Wehrmacht intelligence
officer, Hans W., October 21, 1960, Niedersächsisches Hauptstaatsarchiv Hannover (HStA),
Nds, 721 Hild, Acc 39/91, no. 28/55, fols. 141 f.

3. Rudolf Höß on Globocnik, January 1947, Institut für Zeitgeschichte, Munich (IfZ) F 13/6.

4. TAL/IMT: Statement of Viktor Brack, 15 September 1946.

5. TAL/ZStL, Belzec Case: Statement of Josef Oberhauser.

6. Shirer, William. The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany. Greenwich, Conn.: Fawcett Crest, 1960. p. 1277

7. Höß, Rudolf. Death Dealer: Memoirs of the Camp Kommandant at Auschwitz. New York: Prometheus Books, 1992. p. 206

8. Ibid. p. 164

9. Letter from Goering to Heydrich concerning solution of Jewish question, 31 July 1941. Document NO-2856. Trials of War Criminals Before the Nurenberg Military Tribunals Under Control Council Law No. 10, Volume IV, Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office. pp. 132 - 133. Available online at: http://www.einsatzgruppenarchives.com/mt/exhibit194.html

10. YVA: Eichmann Trial: Transcript. Interrogation notes by Captain Avner Less (Israeli Police), 30 May 1960, tape No. 5, 172.

11. Ibid.

12. The gassings that occurred in Chelmno were by the use of gas vans which collected the Jews, drove them to the forest during which time they were killed on the journey with the exhaust fumes from the vehicles. In a secret directive from the Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) in Berlin dated 8.6.1942, recommended 9-10 Jews per sq. m. in the gassing vans at Chelmno (Kulmhof) in the Warthegau. Available online at: http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/r/rauff.walter/rauff.letter.060542

13. Goebbels, Josef; Lochner, Louis P. (ed. and translator). The Goebbels Diaries. New York: Popular Library, 1948. p. 175-76. Available online at: http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/goebbels-joseph/goebbels-1948-excerpts-02.html#1942-mar-27

14. Reproduced in John Mendelsohn, ed., The Holocaust: Selected Documents in Eighteen Volumes. Vol. 11: The Wannsee Protocol and a 1944 Report on Auschwitz by the Office of Strategic Services (New York: Garland, 1982), 18-32. Available online at: http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/h-wannsee.htm

15. Report of HSSPF, 26.12.42, and Report to the Führer No. 51, 29.12.42, signed by H. Himmler, in: Bundesarchiv, NS 19/2566.

16. See Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, Volume I - Chapter XII. Top Secret document dated 16, May 1942, addressed to SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Rauff, 8 Prince Albrecht-Strasse, Berlin, from Dr. Becker, SS Untersturmfuehrer. (501-PS) Available online at: http://fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/resource/document/DOCPER11.HTM

17. Präg and Jacobmeyer, Diensttagebuch, p. 458.

18. Affidavit of Dieter Wisliceny, Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression. Volume VIII. USGPO, Washington, 1946. p.606-619. Available online at: http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/Wisliceny.htm

19. Dieter Wisliceny, “Bericht: Die Bearbeitung der jüdischen Probleme durch die
Sicherheitspolizei und den SD bis 1939,” November 18, 1946, IfZ Fa 164 (Wisliceny), p. 8.

20. Donat, Alexander (ed.). The Death Camp Treblinka: A Documentary. New York: Holocaust Library, 1979. p. 146

21. Document NO-205, in Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals Under Control Council Law No. 10. Vol. 1: United States of America v. Karl Brandt, et.al. (Case 1: 'Medical Case'). US Government Printing Office, District of Columbia: 1949. pp. 721-722. Available online at: http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/pic/brackletter_de.jpg

22. Translated by Roberto Muehlenkamp. Reproduced in Donat, The Death Camp Treblinka. p. 255

23. National Archives, GX120 frame 125, May 15, 1944. Available online at: http://www.holocaust-history.org/Treblinka/geographyinternet/Figure2.3.jpg

24. LG Düsseldorf vom 3.9.1965, 8 I Ks 2/64

25. AZ-LG Dusseldorf, XI-148/69 S., 1970. http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/maps.html

26. German Crimes in Poland. Volume I. Published by the Central Commission for Investigation of German Crimes in Poland. Warsaw, 1946. p. 99

27. Willi Mentz as quoted in E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess. The Good Old Days. New York, The Free Press, 1988. p. 245-247("The two parts of the camp were separated by barbed wire fences. Pine branches were used so that you could not see through the fences. The same thing was done along the route from the "transfer" area to the gas chambers...")

28. Ibid. ("When the Jews had got off, Stadie or Maetzig would have a short word with them. They were told something to the effect that they were a resettlement transport, that they would be given a bath and that they would receive new clothes. They were also instructed to maintain quiet and discipline. They would continue their journey the following day.

Then the transports were taken off to the so-called "transfer" area. The women had to undress in huts and the men out in the open. The women were then led through a passageway, known as the "tube", to the gas chambers.")

29. Decision of the Düsseldorf County Court (8 I Ks 2/64), 1968. ("Schon bald nach der Betriebsaufnahme stellte sich heraus, dass die Kapazität des alten Gashauses nicht ausreichte, um die täglich anfallenden Judentransporte reibunslos zu liquidieren. Man begann daher Ende August/Anfang September 1942 mit dem Bau eines neuen grossen Gashauses, das mehr und grössere Gaskammern enthielt und nach etwa einmonatiger Bauzeit in Betrieb genommen werden konnte.")

30. Donat, The Death Camp Treblinka, p. 318-19.

31. ' Einsatz Reinhard' secrecy pledge, 18.7.42, printed in: Faschismus--Getto--Massenmord: Dokumentation über Ausrottung und Widerstand der Juden in Polen während des zweiten Weltkrieges, ed. by Tatiana Berenstein, Artur Eisenbach, Bernard Mark and Adam Rutkowski (East Berlin, ), p. 500. (bei der Durchführung von Arbeiten bei der Judenumsiedlung im Rahmen des "Einsatzes Reinhard" beim SS- und Polizeiführer im Distrikt Lublin.... ein ausdrückliches Photografier-Verbot in den Lagern des "Einsatzes Reinhard") Also available online at: http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/documents/part2/doc123.html

32. Nürnberg Document NO-5574, Order by Himmler On July 19, 1942, for the Completion of the "Final Solution" in the Government-General. Available online at: http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/documents/part2/doc124.html

33. Eksterminacja, pp. 300-302. Order available online at: http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_holocaust/documents/part2/doc128.html

34. Translation by Roberto Muehlenkamp. Nürnberg Document NO-2207, Ganzenmüller to Wolff, 28.7.42. ("Geheim

Sehr geehrter Pg. Wolff!

Unter Bezugnahme auf unser Ferngespräch vom 16.7.1942 teile ich Ihnen folgende Meldung meiner Generaldirektion der Ostbahnen (Gedob) in Krakau zu Ihrer gefälligen Unterrichtung mit:
“Seit dem 22.7. fährt täglich ein Zug mit je 5 000 Juden von Warschau über Malkinia nach Treblinka, ausserdem zweimal wöchentlich ein Zug mit 5 000 Juden von Przemysl nach Belzec. Gedob steht in ständiger Fühlung mit dem Sicherheitsdienst in Krakau. Dieser ist damit einverstanden, dass die Transporte von Warschau über Lublin nach Sobibor (bei Lublin) so lange ruhen, wie die Umbauarbeiten auf dieser Strecke diese Transporte unmöglich machen (ungefähr Oktober 1942)”
Die Züge wurden mit dem Befehlshaber der Sicherheitspolizei im Generalgouvernement vereinbart. SS- und Polizeiführer des Distrikts Lublin, SS-Brigadeführer Globocnik, ist verständigt.

Heil Hitler!
Ihr ergebener
gez. Ganzenmüller")
In reply, Wolff wrote Ganzenmüller on August 13, 1942: "Hearty thanks, in the name of the Reichsführer SS, for your letter of July 28, 1942. With great joy I learned from your announcement that, for the past fourteen days, a train has gone daily to Treblinka with 5,000 ‘members of the chosen people’ (Angehörige des auserwählten Volkes).[...]”

35. Juergen Stroop, The Stroop Report: The Jewish Quarter of the Warsaw Ghetto is no More!. Translated from German and Annotated by Sybil Milton. New York: Pantheon Books, 1979. sec. II, p. 75. Available online at: http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/stroop-report/htm/strp075.htm

36. Ibid., sec. II, p. 3.

37. August/September report of the Warsaw district governor to Bühler, in YVA, O-53/113/348-61.

38. Raul Hilberg, Sonderzüge nach Auschwitz (Mainz, 1981), p. 183-86, 198-202, 208-212, 216-17, 222-23, 228. See also: Biuletyn Zydowskiego Instytutu Historycznego (Bulletin of the Jewish Historical Institute), Warsaw, No. 3/1952, No. 21/1957, No. 3/1959, No. 59/1966, No. 61/1967.; "Luach Hashoa (Holocaust Calendar) of Polish Jewry" prepared by Rabbi Israel Schepansky and published by "Or Harnizrach," New York, 1974.; Pinkas Hakehillot (Encyclopedia of Jewish Communities), Poland, Vol. 11, Eastern Galicia, and Vol. III, Western Galicia, published by Yad Vashem, Jerusalem, in 1980 and 1984. Available online at: http://www.holocaust-info.dk/treblinka/treblinka_deportations.htm ; German Crimes in Poland. Volume I. Published by the Central Commission for Investigation of German Crimes in Poland. Warsaw, 1946. p. 102-04. (“The average number of wagons in a transport was 50 through sometimes, as the railway records showed, it was as many as 58.
The total number of wagon-loads of victims from August 1, 1942, to May 15, 1943, may be taken, with some certainty, to have been 7,550.
In the later period, from the railway records; the list of the wagons for August 17, 1943; a telegram of August 18, 1943; and a document entitled Fahrplanordnung Nr. 290 sent from Treblinka station by the Reichsbahndirektion Königsberg, the number of train-loads could be established quite accurately.
In the above-mentioned Fahrplanordnung we read among other things: Zur Abbeförderung von Aussledlern verkehren folgende Sonderzüge von Bialystok nach Malkinia. Ziel Treblinka, from which it may be concluded that after the revolt the following train-loads, were brought in: on Aug. 27, 1943, 41 wagons; on Aug. 19, 35 wagons; on Aug. 21, two transports of 38 wagons each; on Aug. 22, two transports of 39 wagons each; and on Aug. 23, one transport of 38 wagons; i. e. a total of 266 wagons.
As an average number of persons per wagon we may take 100 (the majority of witnesses deposed that it was more than 150).
According to this calculation the number of victims murdered at Treblinka amounts to at least 731,600.”)

39. Report of OFK 365, 19.3.42, in National Archives, T-501/215/97. (Innerhalb der jüdischen Bevölkerung Lembergs hat eine merkliche Beunruhigung Platz gegriffen mit Rücksicht auf eine begonnene Aussiedlungsaktion, durch die etwa 30,000 ältere und sonstige, nicht im Arbeitsprozess stehende Juden Lembergs erfasst und, wie angegeben, in die Gegend von Lublin verbracht werden sollen. Inwieweit diese Evakuierung einer Dezimierung gleichzusetzten sein wird, bleibt abzuwarten.)

40. Report of OFK 365, 17.10.42, in National Archives, T-501/216/1129. (Die Umsiedlungsaktionen gehen unvermindert weiter. Das Judentum ist über sein Schicksal unterrichtet. Bezeichnend ist der Ausspruch eines Mitgliedes des Lemberger Judenrates: Wir tragen alle unseren Totenschein in der Tasche--es ist nur der Sterbetag noch nicht ausgefüllt.)

41. Holocaust and Genocide Studies, V15 N3, Winter 2001 pp.468-470. "A New Document on the Deportation and Murder of Jews during "Einsatz Reinhardt" 1942" by Peter Witte and Stephen Tyas. ("13/15. OLQ de OMQ 1005 83 234 250

Geheime Reichssache! An den Befehlshaber der Sicherheitspol., zu Händen SS Obersturmbannführer HEIM, KRAKAU. Betr. 14-tägige Meldung Einsatz REINHART. Bezug: dort. Fs. Zugang bis 31.12.42, L 12761,B 0, S 515, T 10335 zusammen 23611. Stand ... 31.12.42, L 24733, B 434508, S 101370, T 71355, zusammen 1274166.

SS und Pol.führer LUBLIN, HOEFLE, Sturmbannführer.")

42. John Mendelson (Hrsg.) The Holocaust, Selected Documents in Eighteen Volumes. New York/London 1982. Translated by Roberto Muehlenkamp at: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=397 Links to the original German also available at: http://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/korherr/korherr-lang.php ; http://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/korherr/faksimile-lang/

43. EM No. 124, 25.10.41.

44. My translation. Léon Poliakov/Joseph Wulf Das Dritte Reich und die Juden. Ullstein 33036, S. 240ff. Available online at: http://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/korherr/anweisung-himmler.php

45. War Diary of the Oberquartiermeister, Mbfh Polen, 1.5..41-31.12.43, in National Archives, T-501/219/461. ("OK Ostrow meldet, dass die Juden in Treblinka nicht ausreichend beerdigt seien und infolgedessen ein unerträglicher Kadavergeruch die Luft verpestet.")

46. Report of Gendarmerie district leader Brest, 8.11.42, in BA, R 94/7. (Am 15. und 16.10.42 wurde in Brest-Litowsk die Judenaktion durchgeführt. Anschliessend erfolgte auch die restlose Umsiedlung der Juden im Kreisgebiet Brest-Litovsk. Im ganzen sollen bis jetzt etwa 20,000 Juden umgesiedelt worden sein. ...Einsatz bei der Aktion gegen die Juden in der Stadt und im Kreisgebiet Brest-Litowsk vom 15.10.42 ab. Bis jetzt sind etwa 20,000 Juden erschossen worden.)

47. Archiwum Głównej Komisji Badania Zbrodni przeciw Narodowi Polskiemu w Warszawie (Archive of the Main Commission on Investigating the Crimes Against the Polish People; AGK), Das Diensttagebuch des deutschen Generalgouverneurs in Polen 1939-1945, Vol. XIII/1, pp. 951 f. (hereafter, AGK Diensttagebuch). The German Stadthauptmann was the principal official in the municipal administration.

48. Bogdan Musial, Deutsche Zivilverwaltung und Judenverfolgung im Generalgouvernement. Eine Fallstudie zum Distrikt Lublin 1939-1944 (Wiesbaden: Harrasowitz Verlag, 1999), p. 127 f.

49. SS Unterscharführer Franz Suchomel, interviewed on hidden camera for the film Shoah. Transcript from the book of the same name, Claude Lanzmann, 1985, p. 54.

50. http://www.mazal.org/various/eichmann.htm ("In Treblinka und Belzek hatte Globocnigg auf Befehl Himmlers und Krügers, Vergasungslager errichtet.")

51. Mentz quoted in E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Good Old Days, p. 245-247

52. Stangl quoted in Yitzhak Arad. BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard Death Camps. Indiana, University Press, 1987, p. 184

53. Matthes quoted in Ibid. p. 121. Notes 51-53 are available online at: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/treblinkatest.html

54. Testimony of Rudolf Höß taken at Nuremberg Germany, on 1 April, 1946, 1430 to 1730 by Mr. Sender Jaari and Lt. Whitney Harris. Also present: Mr. George Sackheim, Interpreter: Piilani A. Ahuna, Court Reporter. Available online at: http://www.mazal.org/archive/H%D6SS/TEXT/HOS1-027.htm and following.

55. Kurt Franz quoted in E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Good Old Days, p. 247-49. ("After the uprising in August 1943 I ran the camp more or less single-handedly for a month; however, during that period no gassings were undertaken.")

56. German Crimes in Poland, p. 102

57. This is made clear by the first sentence of Dr. Viktor Brack's report to Himmler of 23 June 1942 which demonstrates that the T-4 SS garrison earmarked for Aktion Reinhard(t) work was in the pay of the KdF (Kraft durch Freude) and was not connected with the RSHA.

58. Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, Volume 2, Chapter 15. 1422-PS; Thirteenth regulation under Reich Citizenship Law, 1 July 1943. 1943 Reichsgesetzblatt, Part I, p. 372. . Vol. IV, Pg.14. Available online at: http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=6298

59. NO-060, in Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals Under Control Council Law No. 10. Vol. 5: United States v. Oswald Pohl, et. al. (Case 4: 'Pohl Case'). US Government Printing Office, District of Columbia: 1950. pp. 704-705.

60. Opinion and Judgement of the United States Military Tribunal II, in Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals Under Control Council Law No. 10. Vol. 5: United States v. Oswald Pohl, et. al. (Case 4: 'Pohl Case'). US Government Printing Office, District of Columbia: 1950. p. 980-992. Available online at: http://www.mazal.org/archive/nmt/05/NMT05-T0980.htm and following

61. Ibid.

62. Document NO-2714, Pros. E. 555, Ibid.

63. Opinion and Judgment of the United States Military Tribunal II: General Findings, in Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals Under Control Council Law No. 10. Vol. 5: United States v. Oswald Pohl, et. al. (Case 4: 'Pohl Case'). p. 958-980.

64. Document NO-1257, in Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals Under Control Council Law No. 10. Vol. 5: United States v. Oswald Pohl, et. al. (Case 4: 'Pohl Case'). p. 699-704.

65. Ibid.

66. Document NO-2003, Ibid. p. 709-712.

67. Document NO-2754, Ibid. p. 713-714.

68. Conrad Black, Franklin Delano Roosevelt: Champion of Freedom (New York: Public Affairs, 2005), p.815. ("Despite Germany's efforts to suppress information about its mass-murder policies, evidence of them trickled steadily out to the West. A report came from the Polish government in exile in June 1942 that 750,000 Polish Jews (one-quarter of the total pre-war Jewish population of the country) had been killed. When Roosevelt's old sometime ally from New York politics, Rabbi Stephen Wise, head of the American Jewish Congress, prevailed upon Justice Felix Frankfurter to visit and remonstrate with the President in September 1942, Roosevelt blandly assured him that he thought most of the deportations were for forced labor rather than extermination. He must have known this to be untrue, and was either trying not to disconcert his old 'friend' or was inexplicably reluctant to take the issue on fully.")

69. German Crimes in Poland, p. 106

70. Ibid., p. 98

71. Bay, Charles A. Appendix A – Identifying the Kurt Franz Camera. http://www.holocaust-history.org/Treblinka/appendixa/

72. Franz quoted in E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Good Old Days, p. 247-249

73. http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap9.jpg

74. Reproduced in Donat, The Death Camp Treblinka, p. 263

75. German Crimes in Poland, p. 98-9

76. National Archives, GX120 frame 125, May 15, 1944. Blown up version available online at: http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap8.jpg

77. Nuremberg Document 4042-PS

78. Photos taken by Novosti Press during a Soviet investigation in 1946. Collection available online at: http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html

79. German Crimes in Poland, p. 96-7

80. Weber, Mark and Allen, Andrew. Treblinka. The Journal of Historical Review, Summer 1992 (Vol. 12, No. 2), pages 133-158. Available online at: http://ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p133_Allen.html

81. Reproduced in Donat, The Death Camp Treblinka, p. 267

82. Quoted in “Reconstruction of Treblinka: Geography of the Locale” http://www.holocaust-history.org/Treblinka/geographyinternet/geographyp2.shtml

83. Odilo Globocnik, "Top Secret" memo, 5 January 1944. Source: NO 064 in NMT, Vol. 5, p. 715.

84. 15 March 1945, secret order issued by Sprenger, the Gauleiter and Commissioner for Reich Defence. Source: D-728 in Office of the Special Counsel, Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression (Washington, D.C. 1947), Vol. 7, p. 175.

Fade the Butcher
02-27-2006, 10:44 PM
Moderator Note: This is the formal debate thread. It is now incumbent upon the critics of the Holocaust to submit their formal initial submission. We shall then proceed to rebuttals. Order in the court. :)

Dan Dare
03-04-2006, 06:04 AM
I didn’t want to leave it too much longer before providing a response to Potty’s disseration above, Here is then is Part the First of my response; a second part will follow later in the weekend, and there may well be further interventions in the meantime by one or more of the nominated participants in this discussion, namely Potty, Sulla, or Basil.

I’m assuming that Fade or one of the other admins will be managing access to the thread in line with our earlier offline discussions.

This is not btw intended to be in the form a ‘formal’ debate, due to severe limitations on the time available for research (on my side) and on administrative disagreements between the parties. So there will be no judges involved, and probably no identifiable end-result either.



Ziel Treblinka / "Final Destination Treblinka" (provisional draught)
By Stephen Potyondi
27 February 2006

A good effort Potty. No, more than that, a decidedly fine effort. But now let’s proceed this explore this magnum opus in some closer detail.

It’s somewhat evident that Potty is a major fan of the “convergence of evidence” school of argumentation popularised by noted ‘historian’ Robert J. van Pelt during the Lipstadt trial in 2000. However it is equally clear that, like many other aficianados of that school, Potty is very picky when selecting items of evidence on which to converge. There being so many sources to draw on, it is only natural to want to settle only on those points in a statement or document where they each conveniently converge, and to ignore those where they inconveniently diverge. Part of our task here will be to perform a ‘gap analysis’ to use a good old marketeering buzzword, drawing the two strands together as it were.

In the interests of brevity, I have truncated quite a lot of Potty’s original material, but hopefully have left sufficient trace so that interested readers may refer back to the correct section in the original post, as necessary. If I have been too aggressive in that, I apologise in advance.


As part of the greater Nazi effort to exterminate the Jews of Europe, the Treblinka concentration camp was second only the the more famous Auschwitz-Birkenau in terms of deadliness.

I’m assuming this is intended as part of a ‘scene-setting’ introduction rather than an expression of strict numerical accuracy, but still we need to view it more as a matter of your own personal supposition unless, that is, you can provide an approved official tally listing Jewish deaths by location. What’s that you say? There are many ‘official tallies’. Indeed there are. Michael Tregenza, for example, continues to maintain that Belzec was responsible for more than one million deaths, and yet others maintain that the Einsatzgruppen finished off many more than that. That would place both ‘events’ higher up the list even than Treblinka. But let’s pass over that for now.

With thousands of trains stocked to the gills with Polish Jews converging on it day after day for over months on end, its facilities orchestrated the annihilation of at least 800,000 of them, and quite likely more.

Hardly ‘thousands’ of trains but I know what you are getting at. It seems you have settled on ‘at least 800,000’ as the tally for Treblinka, fair enough, let’s work with that.

All this we know from what remains of eyewitness testimony and physical evidence despite Nazi efforts to destroy both, and most especially train schedules whose 'final destination' declarations take on a macabre connotation with the understanding of what really occurred at the end of the line.

I hope that in due course you will be able to show us exactly what these train schedules demonstrate and will provide a source where we can inspect the documents for ourselves. We can then better judge whether the documents have any macabre connotations.

As a general point going forward, I’d suggest it is more instructive to have any document in its original form and language, wherever possible. I have noted that many of your source references are in translations kindly provided by Yad Vashem, the Holo-History project, Nizkor, or deathcamps.org, and that many references either terminate at those organisations or at books and reports that are either difficult to obtain, or are not in the public domain. In the case of the latter it does kind of beg the question as to how you managed to (a) come across them in the first or (b) were able to satisfy yourself that what you are quoting actually appears in the place that you are citing. But let’s pass over that for now.

Before continuing, it must be noted that this paper is not intended to be an exhaustive exegesis of Treblinka. I have written it to demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt that Treblinka was an extermination camp devoted to the wholesale slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Jews within the framework of the Final Solution. Any shortcomings of detail, therefore, must needs be remedied by other treatises.

The Communist Polish Commission’s 1945 report notwithstanding, the complete absence of any forensic evidence from the alleged site of the murder of 800,000 human beings when all such evidence, even according to the exterminationist argument, remains in situ awaiting discovery is far more than a mere shortcoming of detail.

This is analogous to a police murder investigation focusing exclusively on the business of taking witness statements and extracting confessions from the alleged perpetrators while ignoring the presence of the victim’s remains that all the witnesses and even some of the perpetrators insist are still present at the crime scene.

Massive and systematic executions at the Treblinka camp fell under the aegis of Aktion Reinhard (alternatively 'Einsatz Reinhard' and 'Aktion Reinhardt'), a facet of the 'Final Solution of the Jewish Question' (Endlösung der Judenfrage) devoted to physically exterminating the Jews of the Generalgouvernement of former Poland.

<snip>

It was at some point very soon after this, in either the late summer or autumn of 1941 that the order to begin Aktion Reinhard(t) was received. No official document containing such an order has ever been recovered; however, its inception may be inferred circumstantially.

It is certainly correct AFAIK to state that no contemporary German document has been found that characterises Einsatz/Aktion Reinhard(t) as a scheme to exterminate all the Jews in the G-G, or anywhere else for that matter. Circumstantial inferences are all that can be made. There still seems to be considerable debate even among mainstream historians as to exactly what ER/AR was intended to accomplish; whether it was designed principally as a scheme for mass extortion engineered by the WVHA, or one for mass extermination as is frequently attributed to the RfSS, or as some combination of the two. Nor is really clear precisely who was really in charge or even who, if anybody, it was named after.

…. An entry from Reich Propaganda Minister Josef Goebbels on 27 March 1942 illustrates all the implications of the Aktion.13
Quote:
Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 per cent can be used for forced labor

This is actually quite an important quote, since it tells us that the party leadership was evidently not thinking in terms of immediate, total liquidation of the Jews in the G-G.

…To move forward to the Treblinka death camp.

Finally!

… Treblinka-II [was] a concentration camp built between May and July of 1942 in the north-eastern part of the Generalgouvernement, in a remote and sequestered location ten kilometres from Malkinia Gorna, a railway junction on the main Warsaw-Bialystok line.20

In apprehension of Treblinka's completion, Victor Brack – who had supplied the T4 labour for the earlier Aktion Reinhard(t) projects, including Belzec and Sobibor – wrote to Himmler regarding additional personnel for accelerated operations due to to begin in late July on account of the anticipated purging of the Warsaw ghetto.21

Quote:
Viktor Brack
SS Oberfuehrer Berlin, IV 8, Voss-Strasse 4, 23 June 1942
[Initial] HH Top Secret To the Reich Leader SS and
Chief of the German Police
Heinrich Himmler,
Berlin SW 11, Prinz Albrecht Str. 8

Dear Reich Leader,

On the instructions of Reich Leader [Reichsleiter] Bouhler I placed some of my men — already some time ago — at the disposal of Brigadeführer Globocnik to execute his special mission. On his renewed request I have now transferred additional personnel. On this occasion Brigadeführer Globocnik stated his opinion that the whole Jewish action should be completed as quickly as possible so that one would not get caught in the middle of it one day if some difficulties should make a stoppage of the action necessary. You, yourself, Reich Leader, have already expressed your view, that work should progress quickly for reasons of camouflage alone. Both points which in principle arrive at the same result are more than justified as far as my own experience goes;
[...]

You might consider including the remainder of Brack’s letter to Himmler. Suffice to say, it details Brack’s observation that among the ten million or so Jews in Europe, at least 2 to 3 million of them could be put to useful work. He goes on to recommend that Himmler consider the castration of these work-Jews through X-radiation and offers the services of his organisation in implementing such a plan. Brack, at least, even at this late stage – a month before the opening of Treblinka II – was clearly not privy to the Master Plan to murder every Jew in Europe.

BTW this is not an original document but a poorly rendered transcript. It should be headed “Geheime Reichssache” not “Geheime Reichsache”, I’m guessing it’s from the IMT, they can be pretty sloppy. And was Brack really on such close terms with HH as to sign his correspondence “ihr” Viktor Brack – well I suppose at least it wasn’t “dein”?


Treblinka was declared “ready for operation” on 11 July 1942 in a communiqué sent from Dr. Irmfried Eberl to Dr. Heinz Auerswald, Nazi Commissioner for the Warsaw Ghetto.22



Quote:
Dr. med. Irmfried Eberl
SS-Untersturmführer
Warsaw
Palais Brühl/Head of SS and Police
Warsaw, 07.07.1942

To the
Commissary for the Jewish Quarter in Warsaw

[stamp of receipt by the Commissary for the Jewish Quarter in Warsaw, 7 July 1942]

Warsaw
Palais Brühl

Subject: Work Camp Treblinka

The work camp Treblinka will be ready for operation on Saturday, 11.07.1942.


Contrary to the wording of the message, the 'work camp Treblinka,' or T-I, had been completed in 1941, a year earlier.

As you note, this materiel is intended for a work-camp. I can't help wondering why there would any need for such a euphemism in a private interoffice memo like this. And why indeed is there no security classification, not even “Geheim”?

The new camp, T-II, was built a short distance from the original.23 Its dimensions were approximately 600m x 400m according to the Düsseldorf County Court which tried many of the perpetrators involved24, giving it an area of 240,000m squared which was divided into three sections of more or less equal size:
i) The “Wohnlager” or Living Camp;
ii) The “Auffanglager” or Receiving Camp;
iii) The “Totenlager” or Death Camp, i.e. the extermination area;
features among others sworn to be "absolutely correct" by Lager-Kommandant Franz Stangl in 1970.25 The extermination area was generally referred to as the 'upper camp' and the rest as the 'lower camp.'

According to most of the later plans, including the one I link to below which was constructed by the experts at deathcamps.org, the area of T-II was considerably smaller than 24,000 sq m (24 Ha). In fact their current plan indicates that the size of the whole camp within the fenced perimeter was about 110,000 sq m, or 11 Ha. Assuming that 1/3 is still claimed to be correct for the Totenlager, that would amount to approx 3.75 Ha, or about 9.4 acres. This does rather constrain the scale of the activities that might have occurred in that space, a theme which I shall develop further later.

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/map12.jpg



<snipped much descriptive narrative readily available elsewhere>


Additional details can be seen in the following composite30:
[url]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...di/diagram.jpg[/url]



This composite, which I think originates with Donat differs in significant details from earlier as well as later plans. In particular the relative size and layout of the Totenlager; it might have actually been more helpful if you could have settled on one specific plan and had stuck with it. But with so many to choose from it’s easy to see how that might be a challenge, since they all have appealing features (that old covergence thing again).

At nearly the same time as the camp's opening - a week later - each man involved was made to sign non-disclosure forms by Globocnik's second in commant Höfle, swearing them to absolute secrecy about the project even after its termination.31
Quote:
July 18, 1942
concerning the obligation of [name of person]......... as a person with special duties in the execution of tasks in the evacuation of Jews within the framework of "Einsatz Reinhard," [Operation Reinhard] under the SS Police Leader (SS- und Polizeifuehrer) in the District of Lublin.
......... [Name] declares:
I have been thoroughly informed and instructed by SS Hauptstuermfuhrer Hoefle, as Commander of the main division of "Einsatz Reinhard" of the SS and Police Leader in the District of Lublin:

This constitutes a second official instance of activities surrounding Treblinka and Aktion Reinhard(t) being classified top secret, with others to come. The reasons for doing so could not have been clearer.

The trail here appears to end at Yad Vashem, with an ongoing paginal reference to a book (presumably in Polish) entitled Eksterminacja. Searches on Y.V. however just return one to the starting point. Do we have a link to the original form in German? And Are we aware that any of these forms been found that were completed and signed by any the personnel supposed to have been attached to AR? There should have been 120 or so such forms completed and signed.


On 19 July 1942, the very next day, Heinrich Himmler ordered the completion of the Final Solution in the Generalgouvernement.32
Quote:
I herewith order that the resettlement of the entire Jewish population of the Government-General be carried out and completed by December 31, 1942.

From December 31, 1942, no persons of Jewish origin may remain within the Government-General, unless they are in collection camps in Warsaw, Cracow, Czestochowa, Radom, and Lublin. All other work on which Jewish labor is employed must be finished by that date, or, in the event that this is not possible, it must be transferred to one of the collection camps.




<snip> [The Himmler order, and the Wolff and Ganzenmüller correspondence, taken as read.]



This document tells us the following:
i) People were being taken to Treblinka at a rate of 5,000 per day since 22 July 1942;
ii) Treblinka was the final destination of these transports



To the extent that it is not braggadocio or hyperbole, the 5,000 daily rate is I believe only supposed to have been for the preceding 14 days. And I don’t see any mention of a final destination in this correspondence.

A glimpse of their fates can be gleaned from a posterior document, The Stroop Report of 1943. It is relevant insofar as its references to "T-II" (Treblinka death camp) tell us that Jews were sent there to be "destroyed," i.e. Killed.35

There appears to be only one reference to “T. II” in the German version of the Stroop Report. I thought I had seen a second, but can’t locate it anymore. I’m also unaware of any other contemporary German documents that use this designation of T. II.






By the end of a two and a half month-long period, Stroop placed the number of Jews sent to Treblinka for extermination at over 310,000.36
:

Please indicate where in this section of the Stroop Report there is any indication where these 310,322 Jews were deported to, and that they were exterminated.



District governor Dr. Ludwig Fischer reported that 400,000 Jews had been deported from the city and its environs during the same period of time.37

This was not all, however, as train records from the time indicate that additional shipments of Jews from Lublin, Radom and Bialystok amounting to 817,290 individuals (total, including Warsaw deportations) were being sent to Treblinka as well, until they ended on 19 August 1943 (coinciding with the uprising).38

Train records of the time? Please identify these records, and provide a source where we can view them. It’s also unclear where your total of 817,290 derives from. If it is Arad’s deportation list as referenced in your link at footnote 38, then the total should be 881,390.

You have provided a number of references to the 1946 report of Polish Central Commission for the Investigation of German Crimes in Poland, including in your footnote 38. Interestingly both Arad and the Commission arrive at roughly the same totals for numbers transported to Treblinka although they use significantly different methodologies, and seem at times to be counting different things.

Arad, for example lists only two transports arriving from Bialystok in August 1943, with a total of 7,600 Jews, while the Commission quotes a Gedob Fahrplanordnung that apparently lists seven transports to Treblinka for the same period, with a total of 26,600 deportees.

I’m guessing that most believers in the standard account these days would tend to put more weight on Arad’s figures, since he has apparently had access to documents not available to the Commission in 1946. But then what are Arad’s sources? Well, in a secondary link he attributes a number of sources which are more or less nebulous and probably a this point in time unverifiable, Judenrat censuses, for example. One source that he does not cite however is the one mentioned by Graf and Mattogno in Treblinka: Extermination Camp or Transit Camp? (available for free download at vho.org, or hard copy ISBN 1 59148 000 0), as outlined on pp 103-4:

[i]

…Actually, Y. Arad – without admitting this – relies upon, more than anything else, the “Atlas of the Holocaust” by British-Jewish historian Martin Gilbert, first published in London in 1982. This work contains an abundance of numerical data about the deportation of Jews but maintains a total silence regarding the sources. As far as Poland – and, in particular, the deportations to Treblinka – is concerned, the figures of Gilbert are for the most part the product of fantasy: he has done nothing more than assign numbers snatched out of thin air to the individual locations from which real and contrived transports departed; numbers whose total sum came to the figure determined beforehand, of 840,000!256 Even a fleeting glance at the tables shows this incontrovertibly.

For example, on table 168 there are approximately sixty locations of the Białystok district, from which transports are supposed to have departed for Treblinka on November 2, 1942. To this endless column of mostly unknown small country towns Gilbert allots extremely exact numbers of deportations.257 If there had really been precise figures for these small towns, they would naturally have been cited first and foremost by the Polish researchers and historians; but, as we have seen, the latter had to confine themselves to hypothetical enumerations of trains and cars.

This means that M. Gilbert’s data about the transports to Treblinka were for the most part confabulated from thin air and are devoid of scientific value. Exactly the same thing applies to Y. Arad‘s transport lists, which are based upon Gilbert’s book.

[/i]

To satisfy myself about Graf and Mattogno’s assertion, I consulted Martin’s book in the 1993 hardback edition. Here then is one of the maps taken almost at random from the dozens that deal with deportations to Treblinka, in this case for deportations from the Radom District in the second half of August, 1942.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/3041/gilbert021wy.th.jpg (http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gilbert021wy.jpg)

I invite readers to compare the deportation statistics on this map with those for the same period and region in Arad’s table. Judging by the almost complete correspondence between Martin and Arad, it appears Graf and Mattogno called it correctly.

To be fair to Martin, sources are indicated for the statistical data presented in a good number of his maps, particularly for deportations from Western Europe to Auschwitz, but there are few if any traceable source references for his Treblinka maps.


These shipment records also usefully demonstrate that Treblinka was not a transit camp for 'resettlement to the east' as the language of Nazi correspondence implied, since Jews were, beginning 19 August, actively being sent from the east (backwards, from Bialystok!) westward there to die on the very railway which was supposedly being used to 'evacuate' them to the Soviet Union.

Perhaps another way to view this seemingly baffling anomaly is by means of a present-day analogy.

Suppose, for example, that the US federal authorities decided to replicate Eisenhower’s highly successful ‘Operation Wetback’ scheme to round up and deport all illegal Mexicans in California. It’s likely that a large number of such illegals would be apprehended in the agricultural areas in the Central Valley, let’s say Fresno County.

Now it is pretty obvious that an unimportant outlying area like Fresno would not have the facilities to ‘process’ large numbers of deportees, nor any facilities to transport them internationally. So what would likely happen?

Well, let’s assume that in anticipation of this operation, the Feds had requisitioned one of the several unused military facilities in the SF Bay Area, say the Alameda NAS or Moffett Field, as a centre for processing the deportees prior to their expulsion, and then evacuating them in military transports. This being the case, deportees originating in the Central Valley could well find themselves travelling north, that is away from Mexico, before retracing their steps in returning south.

So something that might on first glance appear to be irrational, could prove on closer inspection to have been done for sound operational reasons.

Moreover, the Oberfeldkommandant of the Lwow ghetto made it clear in spring of 1942 that Jews were being transported westward from Galicia to the Lublin district and not the other way around.39

[quote]
Within the Jewish population of Lemberg a noticeable unrest has spread in regard to a deportation action that has begun, through which some 30,000 elderly and other unemployed Jews shall be seized and allegedly transferred to a territory near Lublin. To what extent this evacuation can be equated with a decimation remains to be seen. [/quote]

I’d like to see the rest of this report, but will note in passing that, according to your footnote, it was written four months prior to the opening of Treblinka.

Their fate was also made abundantly clear by the same40:
[Quote]
The resettlement actions continue undiminished. The Jews are informed of their fate. Indicative is the statement of a member of the Lwow Jewish council: We all carry our death certificates in our pocket--only the date of death is not yet filled out. [/quote]

Again, it would be interesting to have a link to the complete message, but this fragment appears to be more descriptive of the mindset of some of the Jewish inhabitants rather than making their fate ‘abundantly clear’.

And now on to what we might consider the Main Event, the “Höfle Telegram”

An ancillary document intercepted by the British decoding service at Bletchley Park, the so-called 'Höfle memorandum,' corroborates the increased death tolls.41

[quote]
:
13/15. OLQ de OMQ 1005 83 234 250

State Secret!

To the Senior Commander of the Security Police [and the Security Service], for the attention of SS Obersturmbannfuhrer HEIM, CRACOW.

Subject: fortnightly report Einsatz REINHART.

Reference: radio telegram therefrom.

recorded arrivals until December 31, 42,

L [Lublin] 12,761,

B [Belzec] 0,

S [Sobibor] 515,

T [Treblinka] 10 335 [,]

together 23 611

sum total…[as per] December 31, 42,

L 24 733,

B 434 508,

S 101 370,

T 71 355, read: 713 555]

together 1 274 166

SS and Police Leader Lublin, HOFLE, Sturmbannfuhrer

This document tells us that 713,555 Jews from the Polish General Government arrived at "T" (Treblinka) until 31 December 1942.[/quote]

This document invites comment on a number of different levels.

First, taking it at its face-value and assuming that it means exactly what you obviously take it to mean, it is a record of arrivals of something at four destinations labelled L, B, S and T. As far as I can see it does not mention either Jews, the G-G, or Treblinka, but I agree that is a reasonable inference that each of those factors are involved based on the identity of the individual shown as the sender.

To me one of the more curious aspects of the report is that, although the telegram is quite clearly identified as being a fortnightly update (14-tägige Meldung) this is the only such report that has emerged so far. It follows then that, if this is indeed a periodic report on AR activities, there would have been 25 or more other, similar fortnightly reports compiled by Globocnik’s office. What do we suppose is the most likely explanation for their absence from the Bletchley Park intercept files?

A secondary comment, but perhaps worthy of note, involves the entry “T 10335”. Assuming this refers to at least two, maybe more, transports of Jews arriving at Treblinka in the second half of December 1942, it is curious that Arad, in his exhaustive deportation lists referenced above, does not list any transports arriving after December 15th. Indeed, I seem to recall one of the witnesses mentioning a lull in the extermination activities over this period in observance of what he called the “Gentile Holidays”. On reflection it may have been one of Lanzmann’s interviewees in “Shoah”, perhaps Richard Glazar.

There is a further slight anomaly concerning arrivals total from Bialystok which I shall return in the discussion on the Korherr report, below.

I think this document is so important that it deserves the closest scrutiny. David Irving, as you probably know, states that he has seen the original at the National Archives (PRO) in England and pronounces it ‘probably genuine’ although he notes that the folder in which it is placed has been tampered with, and that the pages have been unstapled, and reinserted in the incorrect order.

I’d go further and suggest that the importance of this document is such that it would behoove its promoters to prevail upon the PRO to volunteer it for forensic analysis so as to verify its authenticity. I’d also suggest that the document and the complete file in which it rests be examined by an expert in Bletchley Park intercept practices and protocols, someone who is in particular an authority on how signals were reconstructed from discrete fragments (the Höfle telegram consists of three such fragments). The recent imbroglio over the forgeries that purported to prove that British government agents murdered Heinrich Himmler lends great strength to this argument. For those interested here are a few links describing the bogus ‘Himmler’ documents, how they came to light, and how they were verified to be forgeries.

Files on Himmler 'murder' exposed as fake ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/02/nhimmler02.xml)

Faking our History (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;xml=/opinion/2005/07/02/dl0203.xml)

Forgeries exposed by a hunch and by science (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/02/nhimmler302.xml)

'You expect everything in PRO to be real. It's a disaster' (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/02/nhimmler402.xml)


I have visited the PRO a number of times in recent years in pursuit of my primary research interest (The Ypres Salient in WW I) and have quite frankly been both shocked and astonished at the almost total lack of security that has been apparent up until the quite recent past. Suufice to say, in the period during which I frequeneted the PRO anyone walking in off the street couls obtain a reader’s pass simply on presentation of a British driver’s license – which does not have to be yours, since they do not carry a photograph - following which one can request to check-out any of the many thousands of original files and documents accessible for public use. Having collected the file or files and retired to a quiet corner of the cavernous reading hall, it would be mere childs-play to disassemble the file, remove or insert documents, and then return the file to the issuing counter without anyone in the PRO being any the wiser. I haven’t been back to the PRO for a while, but would not be surprised to find that security is considerably tightened up now, not just because the Himmler debacle but also in the aftermath of the London bombings.


It also tells us where one of the key figures in the report of Himmler’s statistician Richard Korherr came from.

Perhaps.

The Korherr report, prepared at Himmler's request, were actually two, a “long” one for Himmler and a “short” one for Hitler himself.42

A translation yields the following passage:
Quote:
"4. Transportation of Jews from the

eastern provinces to the Russian

East: ............................ 1 449 692 "

The following numbers were sifted

through the camps in the General

government ............. ........ 1 274 166 Jews

through the camps in the Warthegau..... 145 301 Jews"

The correspondence between Höfle and Korherr is indeed most serendipitous.

It is doubly auspicious that its full implications were first explored by its diligent discoverers in Holocaust and Genocide Studies, a journal of the US Holocaust Memorial Museum.



Did Majdanek actually have any purpose-built ‘extermination facilities’ to speak of? I didn’t think even establishment historians make that claim anymore. And Belzec at least was not that far-away.

[quote] The figure of 1,274,166 Jews mentioned in that report is evidently the figure from the above quoted Höfle memorandum, which means that Korherr’s figure is broken down as follows:

Lublin-Majdanek 24,733

Belzec 434,508

Sobibor 101,370

Treblinka 713,555

Total 1,274,166

Fine, except that Korherr lists a separate total for Bialystok (see below), which makes sense since the Generalkommisariat Bialystok was not administratively part of the GG. Is Höfle’s signal to be interpreted as including all deportations to the AR camps during 1942, or just those from the GG? The signal mentions Zugang bis 15.12.42, which I am taking to read as ‘admitted up to 15.12.42’. Arad maintains btw that 92,250 Jews were deported from Bialystok to Treblinka up to 15.12.42.



Exceprt from the Korherr Report

Die gesamten Evakuierungen ergaben im Reichsgebiet einschl.
Ostgebieten und darüber hinaus im deutschen Macht- und Ein-
flußbereich in Europa von Oktober 1939 oder später bis zum
31.12.1942 folgende Zahlen:

1. Evakuierung von Juden aus Baden
und der Pfalz nach Frankreich....... 6 504 Juden
2. Evakuierung von Juden aus dem Reichs-
gebiet einschl.Protektorat und
Bezirk Bialystok nach Osten......... 170 642 "
3. Evakuierung von Juden aus dem Reichs-
gebiet und dem Protektorat
nach Theresienstadt................. 87 193
4. Transportierung von Juden aus den
Ostprovinzen nach dem russischen
Osten: ............................1 449 692 "
Es wurden durchgeschleust
durch die Lager im General-
gouvernement..................... 1 274 166 Juden
durch die Lager im Warthegau..... 145 301 Juden [2]



In the original version of the report, Korherr used the term "Sonderbehandlung", i.e. "special treatment", with regard to the Jews mentioned in this section of his report. This term, which was a bureaucratic euphemism for killing commonly used in the context of the Final Solution43, must have become too worn and thus transparent by the time Korherr submitted his report to Himmler, for which reason Himmler’s adjutant Karl Brandt, in a letter dated 10 April 1943 required Korherr to refrain from using the term "Sonderbehandlung" and to word the quoted paragraph as it was finally worded.44

[Quote]
The Reichsführer SS
S[outh] Field Command Post 10.4.1943
Tgb. Nr. [stamped: state secret]
-V.

2. Draughts
2. Draughting

To the inspector of statistics, PG. Korherr
B e r l i n

The Reichsführer SS has reviewed your statistical report on "the final solution of the Jewish question in Europe." He wishes that the term "special treatment of the Jews" be nowhere be mentioned. Page 9, point 4, must read as follows:

"Transportation of Jews from the
eastern provinces to the Russian East:
The following numbers were sifted
through the camps in the General
government .....
through the camps in the Warthegau ..............."

No other formulation may be used. I have sent the copy of the report already draughted to the Reichsführer SS with the request to amend page 9 accordingly and send it back again.

SS-Obersturmbannführer

1 brief[/quote]



It’s worth noting at point Korherr’s letter to Der Spiegel vehemently protesting that his famous report

[u]Der SPIEGEL, Nr. 31, 25. Juli 1977, S. 12 : [/u]


DER bekannte, rassisch verfolgte Schriftsteller H. G. Adler, früher in Prag, jetzt in London, hat 1960 im Vorwort zur zweiten Auflage seines außerordentlichen Buches "Theresienstadt 1941--1945" geschrieben: "Es sei auch ausdrücklich festgestellt, daß die Bezeichnung Herrn Dr. Korherrs als 'SS-Statistiker' ... nicht stimmt, da er der SS nie angehörte und für sein Verhalten in den Jahren des Nationalsozialismus rehabilitiert ist."
Der SPIEGEL veröffentlicht leider die Behauptung des englischen Historikers Irving, ich hätte im Frühjahr 1943 auf Himmlers Order die Zahl der Opfer des Judentums berechnet. Tatsächlich wurden diese Angaben vom Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) fix und fertig samt Text mir geliefert mit der Auflage, keine Zahl und kein Wort ändern zu dürfen.
Die Angabe, ich hätte dabei auch aufgeführt, daß über eine Million Juden in den Lagern des Generalgouvernements und Warthegaus durch Sonderbehandlung gestorben seien, ist ebenfalls unzutreffend. Ich muß gegen das Wort "gestorben" in diesem Zusammenhang protestieren.
Es war gerade das Wort "Sonderbehandlung", das mich zu der telephonischen Rückfrage beim RSHA veranlaßte, was dieses Wort zu bedeuten habe. Ich bekam die Antwort, es handle sich um Juden, die im Bezirk Lublin angesiedelt würden.
Braunschweig Dr. Richard Korherr

[u]Translation[/u]
The well-known, racially persecuted writer H.G. Adler, previously resident in Prague, now in London, wrote in the foreword to the second edition to his extraordinary book Theresienstadt 1941-1945 in 1960: "It has definitely been determined that the designation of Dr. Korherr as SS-statistician...is not true, because he never belonged to the SS and has been rehabilitated insofar as his behaviour in the National Socialist years is concerned."
Unfortunately, Der Spiegel is publishing the claim of the English historian Irving that in the spring of 1942, at Himmler's order, I calculated the number of Jewish victims. In fact, these figures along with the text were delivered to me in completed form by the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) with the order that not one word or figure was to be changed.
The statement that I had claimed in this regard that more than a million Jews had died as a result of special treatment in the camps in German-occupied Poland and in the Warthegau is also incorrect. I have to protest against the word "died" in this context.
It was precisely the term "special treatment" that motivated me to inquire of the RSHA by telephone what this term meant. I received the answer that it referred to Jews who would be settled in the District of Lublin.
Dr. Richard Korherr
Braunschweig



It’s worth noting also, if only in passing, that the naughty word does pop up again in page 10 of the ‘long version’. Perhaps it might not have been such such a naughty word after all, but a matter a bureaucratic punctiliousness.

I’d also suggest that durchgeschleust might be better understood as ‘channeled through’ rather ‘sifted through’. A further interesting detail is the use of die Lager im Warthegau meaning camps (plural) in the Warthegau. You are implying that this refers to Chelmno/Kulmhof only, but I wonder what else might have been being referred to here. Auschwitz-Birkenau perhaps? I’m aware that A-B was not administratively within the Warthegau, but the numbers attributed to A-B elsewhere in the report seem awfully low if the standard account is to be followed.

A final document, though it gives no exact indications of numbers, is illustrative when it comes to determining just how many Jews were being killed. It is the remark of the Wehrmacht commander of Ostrow recorded in the first war diary of the General Quartermaster of the Military Commander in the Generalgouvernement on 24 October 1942.



It reads: “OK Ostrow reports that the Jews in Treblinka are not sufficiently buried and therefore an unbearable smell of corpses befouls the air.”45 Ostrow, it should be noted, was 20 kilometres from Treblinka.

This document is slightly incongrous to say the least. First, it’s quite unclear how an observer 20 km away could have been able to pinpoint the source of the odours with such accuracy. Also given that the existence of the Treblinka extermination centre was supposed to be a state secret it’s actually quite remarkable that a lower-level Wehrmacht district commander should be aware of what was transpiring there, or even more so, empowering his staff to send a written complaint up the chain of command. Or that those compiling the Quartermaster’s official diary should have included this piece within it. Typical sloppiness on the part of German military bureaucracy, I suppose.

Have there been other similar exciting finds, I wonder, or just this one? And where, btw, does this item originate and when did it first surface? I often find that the timeline of discovery can be quite significant.


At least over 800,000 Jews (and likely far more as many train records are incomplete or lack head counts) were shipped to Treblinka in the space of a year….

Are you saying there are train records showing that at least 800,000 Jews were shipped to Treblinka? If so, where are they (the records)?


… In this light, a decision arrived at in Lublin on 17 October 1941 by Hans Frank and Odilo Globocnik among others helps us date the birth of the extermination programme, theorised about above.47

Now that’s strange. Most standard accounts make the case quite strongly that the bureaucratic agreement to embark on the Final Solution was not reached until the Wannsee conference, some three months later. Did Frank and Globocnik have perhaps some inside communications channel directly to Himmler or Heydrich that would have allowed them to jump the gun as you suggest?

According to Christopher Browning, who relies on an entry in Goebbels’ diary which gives an account of Hitler’s address to the Reichs- and Gauleiter in his private apartment, even the Führer did not give his nod of approval until December 12 (“The Origins of the Final Solution”, p. 407). So Frank and Globus must have been very well connected indeed.



All Jews, with the exception of indispensable craftsmen and the like, are to be evacuated from Lublin. Initially, 1,000 Jews will be transferred across the Bug River. Responsibility for this is placed in the hands of the SSPF. The Stadthauptmann will select the Jews to be evacuated.
The term 'transferred across the Bug River' was a watchword in use from before the German invasion of Russia and hence anachronistic at the time (territory across the Bug being Soviet in 1939/40), its meaning surely not intended literally in the context of the Jewish extermination operations which were already being adumbrated.48

It’s a little hard to respond intelligently to statements not knowing whether it is something that you have sourced yourself or just cut and paste from somewhere else. Have you actually read the item cited at # 48, “Bogdan Musial, Deutsche Zivilverwaltung und Judenverfolgung im Generalgouvernement. Eine Fallstudie zum Distrikt Lublin 1939-1944 (Wiesbaden: Harrasowitz Verlag, 1999)”, or are you taking someone else’s word that this is what it says, and what it means?


I’m going to have to pause it here since we are now getting into murkier waters of transcripts of movie soundtracks and of West German court depositions that are not in the public domain, and I need a stiff one anyway. A gin and tonic that is:D

End of Part the First.

Dan Dare
03-06-2006, 01:35 AM
Here as promised, and in the better late than never category, is Part the Second


I was originally intending the following to be my final offering in this discussion, but I’m going to reserve the option to post a third section, as necessary. There are a number of areas that we have not had an opportunity to properly air, including the murder weapon (diesel exhaust, apparently), the physics and mechanics of the mass burials, cremation of the cadavers, and disposal of the remains. Not to mention the whole knotty area of diverging witness testimonies.

There’s always a possible as well that our tribunes for the standard account may come up with something that requires a response.

If nothing else, I’ll probably finish my contribution to the discussion with a summation about my personal assessment of what really happened at Treblinka, but that can wait until everyone else who wants to has had a turn.

I won’t be responding to remarks from the gallery in this thread.


As SS-Sergeant and camp guard Franz Suchomel put it, "Treblinka was a primitive but efficient production line of death. Understand? Primitive, yes. But it worked well, that production line of death."49

If we are going admit soundbites from a movie soundtrack into the case, we should also credit Abraham Bomba, the Barber of Treblinka, with the following:

L. How long did the barbers cut the hair inside the gas chamber, as that was not always the case?
B. We worked inside the gas chamber for about a week or ten days. After that they decided that we will cut their hair in the undressing barrack.
How did it look, the gas chamber?
/113 It was not a big room, around twelve feet by twelve feet. But in that room they pushed in a lot of women, almost one on top of another. …
Excuse me. How did it happen when the women came into the gas chamber? Were you yourself already in the gas chamber?
I said we were already in the gas chamber, waiting over there for the transport to come in. Inside the gas chamber—we were already in.
And suddenly you saw the women coming?
Yes, they came in.
How were they?
They were undressed, naked, without clothes, without anything else—completely naked. All the women and all the children, because they came from the undressing barrack—the barrack before going into the gas chamber—where they had undressed themselves.

You said there were about sixteen barbers? You cut the air of how many women in one batch?
In one day there was about, I would say, going into that place between sixty and seventy women in the same room at one time. After we were finished with this party, another party /116 came in, and there were about 140, 150 women. They were all already taken care of, and they told us to leave the gas chamber for a few minutes, about five minutes, when they put in the gas and choked them to death.
Source ( http://www.class.uidaho.edu/thomas/Holocaust/thomas/shoah/bomba.rtf)

Sixteen barbers and 150 women in a 12 x 12 ft space? German ingenuity at its finest.

We know that Jews were being sent to their deaths, but the question of how remains. Much allusion has been made up to this point to use the use of gas chambers. Eichmann, in a paper entitled "Götzen" he submitted for his defence, wrote that "Globocnik had established gassing camps at Treblinka and Belzec upon instruction from Himmler and Krüger."50

This would appear to be a fairly low cost admission for Eichmann to make, and quite possibly one that would not be unwelcome for the prosecution. Helpful witnesses are always preferred.

And it leads quite nicely into a general point that I wanted to make concerning the postwar West German trials of those accused of Nazi warcrimes.

Reference to the testimony of those present best describes what was occurring inside the camp all the while.

Testimony of SS-Unterscharführer Willi Mentz:
Quote:
<snipped several perpetrator accounts>



In my mind the whole historiography of the West German trials is unsatisfactory. None of the trial transcripts are in the public domain (a few of the verdicts are available in German) so it is impossible for a non-specialist to determine how the trials were really conducted. It’s unclear for example, to what extent if at all the prosecution witnesses were cross-examined by the defence, or whether their depositions were simply read into the record. It’s also unclear to what extent the famous legal principle of Offenkündigkeit was invoked to preclude the accused from making statements that challenged received wisdom. Certainly by the time of the 1964 (Franz et al) and 1970 (Stangl) Düsseldorf trials a large number of other trials, as well as the entire IMT proceedings, had previously been completed and these would have collectively established in the legal canon a catalogue of NS crimes that were now held to be offenkündig, or self-evident and therefore immune from challenge.

Consequently Franz, for example would have no more been able to claim that the Nazis had not gassed millions of Jews during WW II than he would have been allowed to dispute the final score in the 1954 World Cup final.

All this kind of raises the spectre of earlier show trial formats, of both the Soviet and Nazi varieties. Given the hopelessness of their situation, it is hardly surprising that all the accused without exception threw themselves at the mercy of the court and appeared to go out of their way to assist the prosecution. It was probably thought that things would go much better for you in terms of sentencing and later treatment if you confirmed everything that the prosecution wanted to lay out but insisted you had spent the whole period in question guarding the potato shed.

If this is felt to be too far-fetched, consider the recent bizarre behaviour of David Irving at his recent trial in Austria.

This is an area in which I personally would like to do much further research.

I’m going to skip over the Höss testimony since similar comments apply, and I don't think it adds any particularly interesting different dimension. Although I will say that Höss’ statements generally have more recently have come under much closer critical scrutiny since the details emerged about the brutal treatment he was subjected to whilst in custody.


A significant portion of witness testimony about the murders converges on the point of collection of Jewish valuables both before and after gassing. Unlike other extermination centres, Aktion Reinhard(t) camps did not report to Heydrich's RSHA but rather to the Economics and Administration Office or WVHA ("Wirtschafts und Verwaltungshauptamt").57

Heydrich of course was already dead by the time Treblinka is supposed to have come into ‘full production’ or even opened, but I do take the point. I take it you would also then concur that if AR was indeed a WVHA operation that would tend to support the notion that its principal purpose was economic rather than exterminatory.


On 15 June 1941, in anticipation of the imminent Operation Barbarossa, the "Nürnberger Gesetze" (Racial Laws) became valid in the eastern occupied territories….58

Nasty stuff, but its relevance to the discussion is unclear, except as part of a general scene-setting exercise. I don’t know anyone who disputes that the Nazis intended to fleece the Jews of anything they could get their hands on before expelling them from their living-space.


As millions of Jews were being killed, the WVHA took an interest in such affairs with regard to their economic aspect, that being theft from murdered persons. An undated report by Odilo Globocnik conveying the value and volume of valuables accrued during these seizures gives an idea of their extent.59

I think it’s the case that the WVHA took a keen interest in expropriating the assets of Jews in the Reich, and elsewhere, long before the war even started.




Quote:
[Stamp]
Personal Staff Reich Leader SS
Files Administration
File No. Secret 115
[initialed by Himmler]

Valuables Turned In from the "Operation Reinhardt"

Valuables from the "Operation Reinhardt" have been handed in at the SS WVHA Berlin for transmission to the Reich Bank or to the Reich Ministry of Economy as follows:

a. RM, total value - RM 53,013,133.51



<snipped the rest of Globocnik’s very well-known report to Himmler>.


It is course impossible to identify which items were stolen from Jews whilst still in the ghettos, or which were items left behind when they were removed from their home towns, or items that were taken from them on arrival at the final destination, wherever that was. It stands to reason though that the latter would have comprised the smallest proportion by quantity if not by value.


All economic aspects of Aktion Reinhard(t) fell under the auspices of the Chief of the WVHA, SS Obergruppenführer Oswald Pohl.
….<snipped all the rest of this section>


That all seemed to be ploughing much the same furrow.

By this time, it was well-known in Allied government circles that the Germans were mass-murdering Jews in the camps, prompting initiatives to conceal and eradicate all traces of the Final Solution in Poland.68 Aktion 1005 was the result, a Sonderkommando effort to exhume and cremate the contents of the mass graves in the east headed by SS-Standartenführer Paul Blobel.

Blobel and SK 1005 had little to do with eradicating the traces of the Final Solution in Poland, and certainly nothing at all to do with AR.

Another concern was the health hazard posed by such extensive extermination operations, especially that of the “insufficiently buried” Jews at Treblinka whose stench must have been intolerable. Consequently, following a visit by Heinrich Himmler to Treblinka in February or March of 1943, the decision was made to cremate the bodies that had been buried.69

Some curious aspects about this:

(a) What is the evidence for Himmler having visited Treblinka in 1943? It is known he met with Globus in Lublin, and is supposed to have then travelled to Sobibor in a special train, but as far as I am aware there is no evidence for a visit to Treblinka except for the testimony of a single prisoner (Arad p. 166).
(b) Given that the RSHA went to a great deal of effort to provision the KL system with crematoria, and also a number of external facilities as well, it frankly strains credulity that they would not install comparable facilities for an operation that was expressly designed for mass murder.
(c) Similarly, Blobel and SK 1005 were said to have been commissioned to start eliminating the mass graves in Russia and the Ukraine in June 1942, before Treblinka even opened. Curious then that, given the apparent sensivity of the SS management on the subject, Treblinka should be permitted to embark on a mass burial exercise which is said to have continued right up until Himmler’s visit in 1943.
(d) According to Arad (p. 167) Himmler was surprised to learn on his visit that the 800,000-odd bodies had not been cremated as he had ordered but buried instead. Did heads roll as a consequence of this stunning display of incompetence and insubordination? No, on the contrary, most of Germans there received promotions very soon after Himmler’s supposed visit, including both Stangl and Franz (the latter attaining officer rank for the first time).

”At Treblinka there were no crematoria with furnaces, but there was a primitive arrangement of grates made from rails placed on supports of reinforced concrete, which could hold 2,500 corpses. Mechanical excavators were used for digging the pits and later for the exhumation of the corpses.”70

Not those ruddy excavators again?!? I though we’d done them in the other thread in which you passed to baton to Sulla and his little band of "helpers" [sneer quotes are appropriate on this occasion]. Oh well.


[quote]In December 1959, at the time of his arrest, a photo album entitled "Die schönsten Jahre meines Lebens" was discovered by west-German investigators in the flat of Kurt Franz, assistant commandant of Treblinka. The album shows numerous photos of Treblinka, such as of a brick tower, of the bakery building, of the menagerie and zoological garden and of the commandant of Treblinka, Franz Stangl.

Actually I believe the album was entitled “Schöne Zeiten”, but nevermind. A few points concerning the Album:

(a) It contains photographs from a number of locations, not just Treblinka. Including Franz posing in front of palm trees on the Dalmatian coast, as well other places in Poland and Germany.
(b) It’s still perplexing that an SS NCO who had, according to your earlier narrative, signed an agreement obliging him to acknowledge that “….there is an absolute prohibition on photography in the camps of Einsatz Reindard” should have felt quite at liberty to swan around this most secret of facilities taking snaps for his personal album. And we’re not talking about a little Minox that could be concealed up your coat-sleeve, but a rather hefty Voigtländer bellows camera with a 105 mm lens. [See Potty’s link at footnote # 71 below].
(c) And not only Franz, if we are to believe the interpretations of later viewers of the album, the camp commandant Stangl is implicated in this state crime of violating the secrecy agreement, as are as any number of SS men who appear in one picture or another. Including this group of merry men (http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/p28.jpg) who are nonchalantly perched on the mid-air grab bucket of an excavator that we are told was engaged in the grisly task of exhuming Jewish corpses. Not wearing masks are even face-cloths against what must been an awful stench, if it could be so objectionable 20 km away in Ostrow.

In reality, without a signed attestation from Franz, or an accompanying caption in his own hand identifying the specific location, most of these pictures could have been taken almost anywhere in northern Germany or Poland. Except for those with the palm trees of course.

Comparison with an aerial photo and the maps drawn by survivors of Treblinka and Stangl and with eyewitness descriptions indicates that the pictures to follow are showing the extermination site.71

The commentary does not match the footnote reference.


During his trial, Kurt Franz stated that “It was during that period [August 1943] that the original camp was demolished. Everything was levelled off and lupins were planted...”72

The preceding sentence to the above (on p. 247 of the “Good Old Days”) reads: “After the [prisoner’s] uprising in August 1943 I ran the camp more or less single-handedly for a month; however during that period no more gassings were undertaken”

The revolt occurred on August 2nd (Arad p. 286). However Arad states that two transports from Bialystok arrived on August 18/19 (Arad p. 396). What happened to them? Was Franz lying?

[quote]The following is a photograph of one of the Menck & Hambrock type "Mb" excavators used during this operation, the buildings and trees in the background matching most closely with a picture taken from the 'concealed burial pit' towards the old gas chambers in a north-westerly direction with either the water pump shelter or the guard house slightly obscuring the view.73[/quote]

How can we be sure that:

(a) This picture wasn’t taken at Sobibor? They were supposed to have used excavators there as well, and Franz was stationed at that camp before transferring to Treblinka.
(b) The picture wasn’t taken at T-I or somewhere else in northern Poland?

The expected response would a reference back to the holocaust-history.org narrative (http://www.holocaust-history.org/Treblinka/appendixd/) from which Potty lifted much of this section of his exposition, and on which he has come to rely as a crucial underpinning for the entire story. That would then present me with another opportunity to display the following photograph from the same source, along with the accompanying expert analysis from the specialists at the HHP.

[IMG]http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/7448/p254td.jpg[/IMG] (http://imageshack.us)

[quote]….[i]Another Kurt Franz photograph also contains images of probable ash heaps. This picture and an enlargement of it are shown in Figure D-2.

These piles are visible in three other snap shots taken by Franz. In all of them one can see the same sort of heaps. All the photos show members of the Jewish work force. Three of them can be seen at the right edge of the photograph. One is standing, two appear to be bent over. Theirs is the task of sieving for bones and of crushing the remnants.[/i][/quote]

The analysts quite confidently state that as well as the ‘probable’ ash-heaps we are definitely viewing Jewish workers operating a bone-crushing apparatus. Of none of this is actually discernible in the accompanying photograph, but it clearly provides the ‘best fit’ for the total narrative. We can take it as read that the rest of this crucial source displays a similar dismally poor level of scientific rigour and detachment.

A line from [i]The Mikado[/i] comes to mind: Pooh-Bar is appearing before the Mikado to beg for mercy, and he tries to explain that the cock-and-bull tale that he and KoKo have concocted is “[i]Merely corroborative detail intended to lend artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative[/i]“

[quote]An open burial pit74:[/quote]


So it would appear. Do we know where it is?

[quote]Once the industrial machinery was no longer needed for exhuming bodies, it was sent away. “In the waybills for the wagons sent from Treblinka at the time of the final 'liquidation' of the camp three excavators are mentioned. One of them was dispatched from Treblinka on June 29, 1943, to the firm of Adam Lamczak, Berlin-Neukölln, Willy Waltherstrasse 30-3 Tr.”75[/quote]

According to the Stationmaster at Treblinka Station, the liquidation of the camp lasted until 19 November. It seems most likely that the heavy equipment would have been among the last items to be shipped out. Also isn’t it probable that the excavators used for gravel extracton at the T. I camp would also have left via the Treblinka station, and would have been identified as originating there on any waybill?

Btw, where can we see a copy of the waybill for the June 29 shipment?


[quote]United States Reconnaissance air photographs reveal that by 15 May 1944 (and probably long before then), physical traces of the camp were all but eradicated.76[/quote]

To the extent they were there in the first place. Can’t see the lupins btw.

[quote] Upon their arrival in 1945, the Soviets found a moon-like wasteland of recent excavations by scavengers complementing other scars in the landscape left by the obliteration of the camp's building foundations. Most tellingly, they found among the upturned soil innumerable human remains.78[/quote]

Surprised to see such large-sized remains, weren’t they supposed to have been crushed to powder?


[quote]In November of 1945, Rachel Auerbach, member of the Central Commission for the Investigation of German Crimes in Poland, visited the site and reported,
Quote:
in the north-eastern part, over a surface covering about 2 ha. (5 acres), there are large quantities of ashes mixed with sand, among which are numerous human bones, often with the remains of decomposing tissues.

As a result of an examination made by an expert it was found that ashes were the remains of burnt human bones. The examination of numerous human skulls found in the camp has shown that they bear no traces of external injuries. Within a radius of several hundred yards from the camp site an unpleasant smell of burnt ash and decay is noticeable, growing stronger as one approaches.79
[/quote]

Ah yes, I was hoping Ms. Auerbach would be making a cameo appearance. Let’s see now…

- [i]..in the north-eastern part..[/i]- It’s not clear what the NE part refers to, but all other accounts and maps place the [i]Totenlager[/i] and the grave sites in the SE section, and the [i]Lazarett[/i] in the SW section. The NE part is where the vegetable garden is supposed to have been.
- [i]..a surface covering about 2 Ha (5 acres)..[/i]- 2 Ha is larger than the total area of the [i]Totenlager[/i] which was indicated to be about 1.4 Ha according to the 1945 Polish survey (See Graf p. 91 and 321-4). It is interesting to note that the area of the camp given over to the extermination activity has progressively grown in size from 1.4 Ha in 1945 to around 3.5 Ha, even though the total camp area is unchanged.
- [i]..remains of decomposing tissues..[/i]- Two years after they were buried?
- [i]..numerous human skulls..[/i]- What happened to the bone-crushing apparatus that we were shown in the photo above?


[quote]She also found “large human bones,' 'rotted masses of corpses,' 'pieces of half-rotted corpses,' and 'fully dressed' corpses, at the Treblinka camp site.[...] In the area where the gas chambers were supposed to have been located, the commission's team of 30 excavation workers reportedly found human remains, partially in the process of decay, and an unspecified amount of ash. Untouched sandy soil was reached at 7.5 meters, at which point the digging was halted. An accompanying photograph of an excavated pit reveals some large bones.”80[/quote]

Large bones, why they stiil there? Half-rotted corpses, fully dressed corpses, partially decayed remains in November 1945?

It seems the SS performed an extremely sloppy job of cleaning up the camp two years previously, and there must also be something in the local soil that significantly slows the usual process of decomposition and skeletisation.

Unless, of course the bodies were not really there when the camp was liquidated, and were only buried at a later date.


[quote]In 1959, Third Reich historian Martin Gilbert visited the camp and came away with this recollection: “From Treblinka village we proceeded for another mile or two, along the line of an abandoned railway through a forest of tall trees. Finally we reached an enormous clearing, bounded on all sides by dense woodland. Darkness was falling, and with it, the chill of night and a cold dew. I stepped down from the cart on to the sandy soil: a soil that was gray rather than brown. Driven by I know not what impulse, I ran my hand through that soil, again and again. The earth beneath my feet was coarse and sharp: filled with the fragments of human bone.”82[/quote]

So it should be relatively easy to replicate Sir Martin’s experience, right?



[quote]That the few we have left survived at all can only be attributed to bureaucratic confusion in the face of imminent collapse before the inexorable march of the Red Army. Likewise, our paucity of eyewitness testimonial can be attributed to the fact that the vast majority of witnesses to the exterminations were killed by them. If the hundreds of thousands of Jews supposedly resettled to the east really had been sent to Russia, we would today have no end of confessions to that effect. As it stands, the fragmentary evidence we hold before us, though incomplete, paints an undeniable picture of a ruthless industrial slaughterhouse performing its task with heartless efficiency in broad strokes.[/quote]

This sounds awfully like it might have been lifted from a screenplay by Ilya Ehrenberg.


[quote]Confronted with this bleakness, I am reminded of my Shelly:

Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

An unfair testament to the countless who lost their lives, but perhaps the dead find solace in the downfall of their own Ozymandias.[/quote]

Confronted with all these conumdrums, I am reminded of my Sherlock Holmes:

[i] “When you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”[/i]



[b]End of Part the Second - Next![/b]

Fade the Butcher
03-12-2006, 07:44 AM
Is this debate over?

Donny the Punk
03-12-2006, 07:45 AM
It's Sulla's turn to reply, and he's preparing his response. He's been busy this week buying a car.

LaundryBob
03-21-2006, 04:44 AM
Not to clutter the thread, but I presume the revisionists have won this one by forfeit?

Sulla the Dictator
03-21-2006, 05:39 AM
Not to clutter the thread, but I presume the revisionists have won this one by forfeit?

I'll be posting my reply tonight.

Sulla the Dictator
03-23-2006, 05:39 AM
Part I


I’m assuming this is intended as part of a ‘scene-setting’ introduction rather than an expression of strict numerical accuracy, but still we need to view it more as a matter of your own personal supposition unless, that is, you can
provide an approved official tally listing Jewish deaths by location. What’s that you say?


In our evaluation of Dan Dare's post, I'm afraid that as usual, what he calls 'personal supposition' is the ONLY standing statement of events. Of course, it isn't supposition at all. Its a historical fact recognized by the historical community as a whole.

I must admit, I'm a bit confused about what he contests. And I think even those in agreement with him might be too.

Because there is only one party here making a statement about what happened at Treblinka. Reading Dan's post, I don't know what he believes. I don't know what history he's willing to accept. Was there a Totenlager at all, for example? Were there Jews at Treblinka, period?

Even a reader in agreement with Dan might be puzzled as to where he stands on it. Such a reader might ask himself, why the need for confusion?

I can tell that reader that confusion is essential to the opposition's case. Were Dan to STATE his denial of an event, outright, he would have to explain the evidence. Then we follow that chain. Dan would have to explain who forged it, and then who cross referenced the forgeries with the witnesses. Then Dan would have to tell us who coordinated the forgeries and false witness statements with the Russians, Americans, and British. Then Dan would have to tell us who coerced the perpetrators. Then who ordered the entire affair. Then who continues to coordinate these elaborate schemes with the ENTIRE academic community. Then who hides this organization from the public eye.

And that, my friends, is a bridge too far. It is easier to just question, rather than make a statement. But the reader should never lose sight of the fact that one side is putting forth a narrative of events, statements of fact, and
submitting evidence. One side is prepared to have its mountains of evidence and position opened to scrutiny and discussion. One side has answers to questions.


There are many ‘official tallies’. Indeed there are.


As with all historical events involving hundreds of thousands or millions of people, there are always differences in figures. Thats how estimates work.


Michael Tregenza, for example, continues to maintain that Belzec was responsible for more than one million deaths


Really? I'd like to see that sourced.


and yet others maintain that the Einsatzgruppen finished off many more than that.


The Einsatzgruppen were not an extermination camp, and thus obviously not within the scope of Potyondi's reference.


That would place both ‘events’ higher up the list even than Treblinka.


All the sources I've read put the figure between 400,000 and 600,000 at Belzec. Including Hoefle, I'll add.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Hoefletelegram.jpg


I hope that in due course you will be able to show us exactly what these train schedules demonstrate and will provide a source where we can inspect the documents for ourselves. We can then better judge whether the documents have any macabre connotations.


Unpublished documents: At least 62,000,000 pages, these include documents of the Nazi bureaucrats and their counterparts throughout Europe; personal documents of the Jews such as letters, passports, diaries and memoirs, as well as the documentation of the Jewish organs and institutions; lists detailing confiscation of assets, deportations or lists of victims or survivors; legal documentation from proceedings against Nazi criminals and collaborators, and much more. The documentation is in all European languages.

Opening hours:
Sunday-Thursday 8:30AM-5:00PM
Books and files must be ordered by 3:00PM

Opening hours of the Hall of Names in the Museum:
Sunday-Thursday 9:00AM-5:00PM
Fridays 9:00AM-1:00PM

Researchers who cannot come to Yad Vashem are welcome to contact us by e-mail at

holocaust.resources@yadvashem.org.il It is recommended to add your snail-mail address, for the event that we find documentation and wish to send reproductions of it.

We hope your search or query will be successfully resolved.

http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_yad/departments/archives/home_archive.html

For one. There are plenty of sources for Nazi bureacracy.


As a general point going forward, I’d suggest it is more instructive to have any document in its original form and language, wherever possible. I have noted that many of your source references are in translations kindly provided by Yad Vashem, the Holo-History project, Nizkor, or deathcamps.org, and that many references either terminate at those organisations or at books and reports that are either difficult to obtain, or are not in the public domain. In the case of the latter it does kind of beg the question as to how you managed to (a) come across them in the first or (b) were able to satisfy yourself that what you are quoting actually appears in the place that you are citing. But let’s pass over that for now.


It sounds as though you're doubting the veracity of these documents. Though we can't possibly know, since you didn't cite one which you find questionable or ask for a source on a particular piece here. We can't alleviate your concerns when you won't be specific.

So we'll reject this, for now.


The Communist Polish Commission’s 1945 report notwithstanding, the complete absence of any forensic evidence from the alleged site of the murder of 800,000 human beings when all such evidence, even according to the exterminationist argument, remains in situ awaiting discovery is far more than a mere shortcoming of detail.


There was a forensic investigation that you just brushed over. The Polish Commission examined the site. The Soviets passed it as well, and took photographs.

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp44.jpg

The photo was taken by Soviet Forces (Novosti Press), during their investigations in 1945.

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp35.jpg

Bones, pieces of clothes and thousands of personal belongings of the victims were digged out by the local population when they searched for valuables.
The photo was taken in 1945.

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp39.jpg

The photo was taken in 1945. A picture of upturned earth at the site.

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp41.jpg

Human remains at Treblinka, 1945.

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp43.jpg

And more.

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp42.jpg

And more.

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp48.jpg

And so on....



This is analogous to a police murder investigation focusing exclusively on the business of taking witness statements and extracting confessions from the alleged perpetrators while ignoring the presence of the victim’s remains that all the witnesses and even some of the perpetrators insist are still present at the crime scene.


No. Its more like a case where the authorities stumble over the body and the killer, with a gun and hacksaw in hand. The killer shrugs as they lead him away. Later at his trial he confesses. They send the killer to the hangman and bury the victim. Then fifty years later, a twelve year old kid appears at the police department saying that he doesn't believe that the victim died at all because he doesn't like the victim's grandson. The police tolerate this for a few minutes then tell him to leave them alone, because they have real work to do and don't have time for crazy 12 year old kids.

Then the kid yells to anyone who will listen that a massive conspiracy exists in the town, fabricating the hacksaw, the gun, the victim's body, and framing the killer. This conspiracy controls the police department, the court, and the
local newspaper. Its all under the control of the victim's grandson, fabricating his grandfather's death.

He tells the townfolk that guns don't work, hacksaws don't cut through bone, and the victim lived out his days hiding in a bunker 3 miles below the town.

Thats what this is like.


It is certainly correct AFAIK to state that no contemporary German document has been found that characterises Einsatz/Aktion Reinhard(t) as a scheme to exterminate all the Jews in the G-G, or anywhere else for that matter.


State Secretary Dr. Bühler stated that the General Government would welcome it if the final solution of this problem could be begun in the General Government[/u], since on the one hand transportation does not play such a
large role here nor would problems of labor supply hamper this action. Jews must be removed from the territory of the General Government as quickly as possible, since it is especially here that the Jew as an epidemic carrier represents an extreme danger and on the other hand he is causing permanent chaos in the economic structure of the country through continued black market dealings.

Moreover, of the approximately 2 1/2 million Jews concerned, the majority is unfit for work.

State Secretary Dr. Bühler stated further that the solution to the Jewish question in the General Government is the responsibility of the Chief of the Security Police and the SD and that his efforts would be supported by the officials of the General Government. He had only one request, to solve the Jewish question in this area as quickly as possible.


--Wannsee Protocol

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/eurodocs/germ/wanngerm.html

http://www.marcverbeek.com/images/wannsee/pagina's/Pagina14.jpg



Circumstantial inferences are all that can be made.


Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.

[u]The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)

In the course of the practical execution of the final solution, Europe will be combed through from west to east. Germany proper, including the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, will have to be handled first due to the housing problem and additional social and political necessities.

The evacuated Jews will first be sent, group by group, to so-called transit ghettos, from which they will be transported to the East.

--Wannsee Protocol

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/eurodocs/germ/wanngerm.html

Nothing inferential about it. Evacuation is execution. Germany and the Protectorate first, then the General Government.


There still seems to be considerable debate even among mainstream historians as to exactly what ER/AR was intended to accomplish; whether it was designed principally as a scheme for mass extortion engineered by the
WVHA, or one for mass extermination as is frequently attributed to the RfSS, or as some combination of the two.


There is a debate about whether it was intended to kill certain groups of Jews first, or if it was intended to be a mechanism for killing Jews indiscriminately, or if it was enlarged in scale to kill more Soviet Jews after Barbarossa. There is no debate among historians that it was established with the intention to kill.


Nor is really clear precisely who was really in charge


Globocnik and Hoefle, though the people from the T4 Euthanasia project still were under the Chancellory, I believe.

These aren't mysteries.


or even who, if anybody, it was named after.


It was almost certainly named after Heydrich, considering the timing and nature of his death.


This is actually quite an important quote, since it tells us that the party leadership was evidently not thinking in terms
of immediate, total liquidation of the Jews in the G-G.


I'll repeat:

The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)

--Wannsee

The intention was always the destruction of the Jewish population of Europe. Buehler himself says that he is eager to begin the 'evacuation' of the Jews in the General Government because:

of the approximately 2 1/2 million Jews concerned, the majority is unfit for work.

That is the purpose of the Aktion Reinhardt camps.


You might consider including the remainder of Brack’s letter to Himmler. Suffice to say, it details Brack’s observation that among the ten million or so Jews in Europe, at least 2 to 3 million of them could be put to useful work.


More importantly, Brack's suggestion is that they DON'T KILL THEM with the rest.

Among the approximately 10 million European Jews I think there are at least 2-3 million men and women very fit for labour. Given the difficulties we face because of our need for workers, I am of the opinion that we should
withdraw these 2-3 millions from the action and keep them alive.

--Viktor Brack
SS-Oberfuehrer
To Reichsfuehrer SS and Chief of the
German Police, Heinrich Himmler

http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/brackletter_en.htm


He goes on to recommend that Himmler consider the castration of these work-Jews through X-radiation and offers the services of his organisation in implementing such a plan. Brack, at least, even at this late stage – a month before the opening of Treblinka II – was clearly not privy to the Master Plan to murder every Jew in Europe.


You're mischaracterizing the nature of the Final Solution. If we view the plan laid out by Heydrich, it goes as follows:

With regard to the issue of the effect of the evacuation of Jews on the economy, State Secretary Neumann stated that Jews who are working in industries vital to the war effort, provided that no replacements are available, cannot be evacuated.

SS-Obergruppenführer Heydrich indicated that these Jews would not be evacuated according to the rules he had approved for carrying out the evacuations then underway.


The Nazis had every intention of keeping slaves AND engaging in mass slaughter. They aren't exclusionary. And as is made clear here its all dependant on the war, which the Nazis had every intention of winning. As you mentioned yourself, castration for these workers was the alternative to KILLING them in the same manner the 7-8 million 'non-essential workers' Brack refers to would be dealt with.

This is to ensure the extinction of European Jews. The workers would have almost certainly be done away with in the same manner after a successful completion of the war.


BTW this is not an original document but a poorly rendered transcript. It should be headed “Geheime Reichssache” not “Geheime Reichsache”, I’m guessing it’s from the IMT, they can be pretty sloppy.


Since you cited the document yourself as evidence of your position, I assume you're not suggesting its a fabrication.


And was Brack really on such close terms with HH as to sign his correspondence “ihr” Viktor Brack


Probably, considering his work in the Chancellory.


I can't help wondering why there would any need for such a euphemism in a private interoffice memo like this.


Because mass murder is a distasteful topic that the upper echelons of the Party don't want spread around. That or the recipient isn't privy to the specifics.


And why indeed is there no security classification, not even “Geheim”?


Why would there be?


According to most of the later plans, including the one I link to below which was constructed by the experts at deathcamps.org, the area of T-II was considerably smaller than 24,000 sq m (24 Ha). In fact their current plan
indicates that the size of the whole camp within the fenced perimeter was about 110,000 sq m, or 11 Ha. Assuming that 1/3 is still claimed to be correct for the Totenlager, that would amount to approx 3.75 Ha, or about 9.4
acres. This does rather constrain the scale of the activities that might have occurred in that space, a theme which I shall develop further later.

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/map12.jpg


Whats the constraint? They're not HOUSING 800,000 people. They're killing them and burying them. Assuming eight victim's bodies per square cubic meter, in pits 50 meters long, 25 meters wide and 7.5 meters deep, you would need about five acres.


The trail here appears to end at Yad Vashem, with an ongoing paginal reference to a book (presumably in Polish) entitled Eksterminacja. Searches on Y.V. however just return one to the starting point. Do we have a link to the original form in German? And Are we aware that any of these forms been found that were completed and signed by any the personnel supposed to have been attached to AR? There should have been 120 or so such forms completed and signed.


Well Dan, we are a bit constrained by this medium. Websites teaching about the Holocaust can't be expected to produce every single document ever captured in Germany. However, as I pasted above, Yad Vashem does have the documents for order if you're interested.

But I imagine its not much different than this:

Sergeant Weisse Gott[fr]ied Duty note

1.) I am aware, and I was today reminded of the fact, that I will be punished with death, if I steal for myself Jewish property of any kind.

2.) Most importantly, I will maintain unconditional secrecy during the measures to carry out the Jewish evacuation, and also vis-à-vis my comrades.

3.) I pledge myself to commit my entire person and my capacity for work toward the swift and smooth execution of these measures.

Auschwitz May 24, 1944


http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/19440524-weisse/weisse.gif

To be continued.

Sulla the Dictator
03-23-2006, 05:42 AM
Part II



To the extent that it is not braggadocio or hyperbole, the 5,000 daily rate is I believe only supposed to have been for the preceding 14 days. And I don’t see any mention of a final destination in this correspondence.


“Since 22.7. a train with 5 000 Jews goes daily from Warsaw via Malkinia to Treblinka. Furthermore there is a train with 5 000 Jews going from Przemysl to Belzec twice a week. Gedob is constantly in touch with the security service in Cracow, who agrees that the transports from Warsaw via Lublin to Sobibor (near Lublin) rest as long as the conversion works on this line make transports impossible (until October 1942)”

Notice that in the case of the train from Warsaw to Treblinka, the way point of Malinkia was CITED as a way point.

Treblinka is the final desintation.

And as you YOURSELF have pointed out, the area of the Death Camp isn't large enough to house that influx of people, or store them. It has more than enough space to kill and bury them, however.

That Treblinka was the final destination, there can be no doubt.

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigschedule.jpg


There appears to be only one reference to “T. II” in the German version of the Stroop Report. I thought I had seen a second, but can’t locate it anymore.


With today's bounty of Jews, a very large portion of the bandits and lowest elements of the Ghetto has, in my opinion, been captured. Immediate liquidation was not carried out due to the onset of darkness. I will attempt to obtain a train for T II for tomorrow, otherwise the liquidations will be carried out tomorrow.

--Stroop report, April 25 1943

http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/stroop-report/jpg/strp034.jpg?raw=1

30 Jews displaced, 1,330 Jews pulled out of the bunkers and immediately destroyed, 362 Jews shot in battle. In total captured today: 1,722 Jews. Thereby the total number of captured Jews was raised to 29,186. Beyond that have been with probability uncounted Jews killed in the 13 blown up bunkers and through fires.

At this time there are no more captured Jews in Warsaw. The previously mentioned transport to T.II was successful.


--Stroop report, April 26 1943

http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/stroop-report/jpg/strp038.jpg?raw=1

The few Jews and criminals still remaining in the ghetto have for 2 days used the refuges available in the ruins in order to go back to their well-known bunkers at night, and there to eat and supply themselves for the next day. No evidence on further bunkers known to them can be obtained from the captured Jews. The rest of the inhabitants, where the fire fight took place, were destroyed by the strongest explosive charges. From a Wehrmacht operation 327 Jews were captured today. These captured Jews will only be sent to T.II.

The total number of captured Jews is set at 55,179.

--Stroop report, May 13 1943

http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/stroop-report/jpg/strp068.jpg?raw=1

Of the overall total of 56,065 captured Jews, about 7,000 have been destroyed in the course of the large-scale action in the former Jewish living quarter. 6,929 Jews were destroyed by transport to T. II, so that overall, 13,929 Jews were destroyed. It is estimated that, in addition to the number of 56,065, 5 - 6,000 Jews were destroyed by explosions and fire.

--Stroop report, May 24 1943

http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/stroop-report/jpg/strp075.jpg?raw=1

The Stroop report establishes Treblinka as a death camp. And there were 4 references to T II, not just one.


Please indicate where in this section of the Stroop Report there is any indication where these 310,322 Jews were deported to, and that they were exterminated.


Well there were around 400,000 people in the Ghetto when the resettlement began. Are you denying that they were forced out?

All Jews will be resettled to the east, regardless of age and sex.

With the exception of:
Jews working for German institutions or companies
Jews working for the Judenrat
Jewish hospitals' staff
Members of the Jewish Order Service
Wifes and children of above-mentioned persons
Patients of a Jewish hospital on the day of resettlement.
Each person which will be resettled is allowed taking along 15 kg luggage and all valuables: Gold, jewellery, money

etc.

Provisions for three days is necessary.
The resettlement will start on 22 July 1942, 11 o'clock (11 a.m.).
The Judenrat is responsible for delivery of 6,000 persons daily until 4 p.m.. Assembly point is the Jewish hospital at Stawki Street.

On 22 July 1942, the Jewish hospital at Stawki Street has to be emptied so that the building can be used for the people being resettled.

The Judenrat has to announce the German orders.

Punishments:

Each Jew who is leaving the ghetto during the resettlement action will be shot.

Each Jew who is acting against the resettlement will be shot.

Each Jew who doesn't belong to the above-mentioned persons and who will be discovered in Warsaw after the resettlement action will be shot.

The first contingents put together by the Judenrat consisted of refugee assembly institutions, prisons and old people's homes.

If these orders will not be carried out, a corresponding number of hostages will be shot.


http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/pic/bigbekannt.jpg

We know from train records and deportation lists that a large swath of them were sent to Treblinka. That was also Stroop's default 'resettlement' point.

As Dan has pointed out, Treblinka doesn't look like it can fit 700,000+ inhabitants. Nor can it be denied, logically, that there were about that many people sent to this camp. Treblinka couldn't even house the thousands
Stroop was carting off. He says:

These captured Jews will only be sent to T.II.

In the Stroop report:

It soon became clear, however, that not all dangers had been removed by this confining the Jews to one place.

Security considerations required removing the Jews from the city of Warsaw altogether. The first large resettlement action took place in the period from 22 July to 3 October 1942. In this action 310,322 Jews were removed. In January 1943 a second resettlement action was carried out by which altogether 6,500 Jews were affected.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/stroop-report/jpg/strp010.jpg?raw=1


Train records of the time? Please identify these records, and provide a source where we can view them.


Now this is silly. Thats like saying "You say there were victims of the Holocaust? NAME them! Give me 6 million names". There are hundreds if not thousands of train schedules. There were about 400,000 people in Warsaw alone who were being expelled. You don't need a link to a train schedule for it. But I will humor you a bit, for the gallery's sake.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/Vallon_quark/Umlaufplan.jpg

For Treblinka:

http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/pic/190942.jpg

For Sobidor:

http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/pic/090542.jpg

The General Administration of the Romanian Rail Authority
Traffic Department
Prime Ministers Office B.C.[Bucharest] 23.9.1942
To: Mr. Radu Lecca 86/212 Col. SIC

The Government Commissar for Jewish Affairs

We are honored to inform you that the German Rail Administration East Berlin has scheduled a meeting to take place in Berlin on September 26-28, 1942, to prepare a schedule of special trains for the transport of Jews from Romania to the General Government.

To enable our representatives at the meeting to make decisions on this matter, we respectfully request that you inform us regarding your plans on the subject.

Director General

Director of the Traffic [Department]


http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%205376.pdf


Moreover, they are available to you now. Order a copy. As long as you don't tell them you're a Holocaust denier, it shouldn't be an issue.


It’s also unclear where your total of 817,290 derives from. If it is Arad’s deportation list as referenced in your link at footnote 38, then the total should be 881,390.


We're dealing with estimates.


You have provided a number of references to the 1946 report of Polish Central Commission for the Investigation of German Crimes in Poland, including in your footnote 38. Interestingly both Arad and the Commission arrive at roughly the same totals for numbers transported to Treblinka although they use significantly different methodologies, and seem at times to be counting different things.

Arad, for example lists only two transports arriving from Bialystok in August 1943, with a total of 7,600 Jews, while the Commission quotes a Gedob [i]Fahrplanordnung[/i] that apparently lists seven transports to Treblinka for the same period, with a total of 26,600 deportees.


This was correctly explained to you by Oberon.

To be fair to Martin, sources are indicated for the statistical data presented in a good number of his maps, particularly for deportations from Western Europe to Auschwitz, but there are few if any traceable source references for his Treblinka maps.


This is false. Simply because a source is in Polish doesn't mean its 'not a source'. If your side of the aisle can come up with $100,000 rewards and all other sorts of publicity stunts and gimmicks, they can afford to pay a Polish translator to make a transcript.



Perhaps another way to view this seemingly baffling anomaly is by means of a present-day analogy.


Well, an analogy seems as good a way as any to fill up your page. Its a nice change of pace from the questions, innuendo, and suppositions. Lets go for a ride.


Suppose, for example, that the US federal authorities decided to replicate Eisenhower’s highly successful ‘Operation Wetback’ scheme to round up and deport all illegal Mexicans in California. It’s likely that a large number of such
illegals would be apprehended in the agricultural areas in the Central Valley, let’s say Fresno County.

Now it is pretty obvious that an unimportant outlying area like Fresno would not have the facilities to ‘process’ large numbers of deportees, nor any facilities to transport them internationally. So what would likely happen?

Well, let’s assume that in anticipation of this operation, the Feds had requisitioned one of the several unused military facilities in the SF Bay Area, say the Alameda NAS or Moffett Field, as a centre for processing the deportees prior to their expulsion, and then evacuating them in military transports. This being the case, deportees originating in the Central Valley could well find themselves travelling north, that is [i]away from Mexico[/i], before retracing their steps in returning south.

So something that might on first glance appear to be irrational, could prove on closer inspection to have been done for sound operational reasons.


The problem with your analogy is that it conveniently ENDS there. Such 'processed' individuals would have a record of having been transported to Mexico. The Mexicans government would have a record of recieving them. The local communities would have a flood of millions of people. The very SIZE of this event would result in a great deal of evidence.

If, however, they were put into these 'transit camps' to be 'transported to Mexico', and nothing was ever seen of them since, we would have a serious problem. Especially if they DESTROYED the camp and built a house for a former Canadian Hiwi ontop of it. :p

A reasonable person would ask themselves 'whats going on here?' Why do you DEMOLISH every shred of the camp?

Moreover, where in the USSR did the trains go to FROM Treblinka?

Where, exactly do the Soviets take note of the large influx of Western, Central, and Eastern European Jews deposited on their soil?

Can you name one of these settlements of French, German, or Polish Jews in "Ostland"? LOL I assume you don't deny the actions of the Einsatzgruppen. Why are they SHOOTING Jews who are supposedly ALREADY in their place of
permanent settlement? :p

And whats this about?

Secret

To

Reich Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories



Re: Execution of Jews

in reply to letter I/259141 of October 31, 1941

Report from: Government Counselor Trampedach



I have forbidden the unauthorized ("wild") executions of Jews in Libau because the manner in which they were carried out was irresponsible.

Will you please inform me whether your inquiry of October 31 should be interpreted as a directive to liquidate all the Jews in Ostland? Is this to be done regardless of age, sex, and economic requirements (for instance, the Wehrmacht's demand for skilled workers in the armament industry)? Of course the cleansing of Ostland of Jews is a most important task; its solution, however, must be in accord with the requirements of war production.

So far I have not been able to find such a directive either in the regulations concerning the Jewish question in the "Brown Portfolio" (Braune Mappe) or in any other decree.


And this reply?

Reich Minister for the Occupied Eastern Territories

Nr. I/1/157/41

To

Reichskommissar for Ostland

Riga



Re: Jewish question

in reply to your letter of November 15, 1941

The Jewish question has presumably been clarified meanwhile by means of verbal discussion. In principle, economic considerations are not to be taken into account in the settlement of the problem. It is further requested that any questions that arise be settled directly with the Higher SS and Police Leader (Hoeherer SS- und Polizeifuehrer).


http://yad-vashem.org.il/about_holocaust/documents/part3/doc178.html


Again, it would be interesting to have a link to the complete message, but this fragment appears to be more descriptive of the mindset of some of the Jewish inhabitants rather than making their fate ‘abundantly clear’.


Its strange how the inhabitants might have that mindset, after being herded into cattle cars by threats of shootings if they stay.


And now on to what we might consider the Main Event, the “Höfle Telegram”


(Drums fingers on the desk)


This document invites comment on a number of different levels.


Shoot.


First, taking it at its face-value and assuming that it means exactly what you obviously take it to mean, it is a record of arrivals of something at four destinations labelled L, B, S and T. As far as I can see it does not mention either Jews, the G-G, or Treblinka, but I agree that is a reasonable inference that each of those factors are involved based on the identity of the individual shown as the sender.


Then its established.


To me one of the more curious aspects of the report is that, although the telegram is quite clearly identified as being a fortnightly update (14-tägige Meldung) this is the only such report that has emerged so far. It follows then
that, if this is indeed a periodic report on AR activities, there would have been 25 or more other, similar fortnightly reports compiled by Globocnik’s office. What do we suppose is the most likely explanation for their absence from the Bletchley Park intercept files?


This message, located in the PRO in HW 16/23, enumerated the numbers of Jews eliminated as part of Operation Reinhard (Einsatz Reinhar[d]t) at four death camps in the General Government (Lublin, Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka) for both the last two weeks of December 1942 and for the year 1942. The total number of persons eliminated for 1942 was 1,274,166. This number agreed with (and probably was) the basis for a statistical report of Reinhardt’s effectiveness that had been commissioned by the SS leader Heinrich Himmler in December 1942. It appears the British analysts who had decrypted the message missed the significance of this particular message at the time. No doubt this happened because the message itself contained only the identifying letters for the death camps followed by the numerical totals. The only clue would have been the reference to Operation Reinhard, the meaning of which – the plan to eliminate Polish Jewry that was named after the assassinated SS General Reinhard Heydrich – also probably was unknown at the time to the codebreakers at Bletchley.

--National Security Agency.
http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00044.cfm

From February 1942 to about February 1943, these radio messages continued to be sent from the camps to SS headquarters. However, there were limitations to what could be learned from these decrypts. Not all the camps set up by the Germans in the east reported by radio; nor did the camps set up by minor Axis powers and Vichy France that were used to hold Jews for transport to the Nazi death and labor camps to the east. By early 1943, these SS reports completely ceased to be sent by radio. It is likely that the SS leadership was concerned about the security of the information that was transmitted in these messages, not unlike Daluege’s worries about Police messages in October 1941. By this time it is possible that telephone or telegraph lines had been run out to the camps and messages could be sent without the worry of eavesdropping. Later in the war, as conditions in Eastern Europe worsened with the Russian advance, the SS may have returned to using radios to communicate. GC&CS broke a few messages about the camps encrypted in the new SS Enigma key given the cover name “Grapefruit.” But these decrypts remained few in number.22

http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00044.cfm


A secondary comment, but perhaps worthy of note, involves the entry “T 10335”. Assuming this refers to at least two, maybe more, transports of Jews arriving at Treblinka in the second half of December 1942, it is curious that
Arad, in his exhaustive deportation lists referenced above, does not list any transports arriving after December 15th.


Arad cites a transport on January 18-22 of 1943 on page 396 of "The Operation Reinhard Death Camps" from Grodno. Another one on January 25th. Another February 14-19th.



Indeed, I seem to recall one of the witnesses mentioning a lull in the extermination activities over this period in observance of what he called the “Gentile Holidays”. On reflection it may have been one of Lanzmann’s interviewees in “Shoah”, perhaps Richard Glazar.


I don't know what this means. Why don't you show us? I don't think what you 'recollect' meets your high bar for evidence. :p


There is a further slight anomaly concerning arrivals total from Bialystok which I shall return in the discussion on the Korherr report, below.


Ok, can't wait.


I think this document is so important that it deserves the closest scrutiny. David Irving, as you probably know, states that he has seen the original at the National Archives (PRO) in England and pronounces it ‘probably genuine’ although he notes that the folder in which it is placed has been tampered with, and that the pages have been unstapled, and reinserted in the incorrect order.


I suppose there you go then.


I’d go further and suggest that the importance of this document is such that it would behoove its promoters to prevail upon the PRO to volunteer it for forensic analysis so as to verify its authenticity.


Why? Its chain of custody is well known, and there is no one who has SEEN the document who doubts its legitimacy. Indeed, you even mention a fellow from your side of the argument who believes it to be genuine.


I’d also suggest that the document and the complete file in which it rests be examined by an expert in Bletchley Park intercept practices and protocols, someone who is in particular an authority on how signals were reconstructed from discrete fragments (the Höfle telegram consists of three such fragments).


The documents have been examined by every expert in the field, including our National Security Agency, as I linked above.


The recent imbroglio over the forgeries that purported to prove that British government agents murdered Heinrich Himmler lends great strength to this argument.

For those interested here are a few links describing the bogus ‘Himmler’ documents, how they came to light, and how they were verified to be forgeries.


The results of investigations by forensic document experts on behalf of this newspaper have shocked historians and caused tremors at the Archives, the home of millions of historical documents, which has previously been thought immune to distortion or contamination.

The allegation that the SS leader was murdered, with the knowledge of Churchill and War Cabinet ministers, appeared in Himmler's Secret War, published in May.

What made the claim stand out from other allegations over the years was that it referred to specific documents in the National Archives at Kew - usually an absolute guarantee of validity.

But after The Daily Telegraph, like other newspapers, was approached to publicise the book, the documents began to raise suspicions.

The improbability of allegations that flatly contradict the accepted fact that Himmler killed himself and the use of language in documents that read more like excerpts from a spy thriller than dry civil service memos prompted this newspaper to raise concerns with the National Archives.

Officials gave permission for documents to be taken to the laboratories in Amersham, Bucks, of Dr Audrey Giles, one of the foremost forensic document specialists.

She discovered that letterheads on correspondence supposedly written in 1945 were created on a high-resolution laser printer, technology not developed until at least 50 years later.

Signatures supposed to be those of Brendan Bracken, the minister of information and head of the Political Warfare Executive, which aimed to subvert the German war effort, were found to be written over pencil tracings.

Dr Giles also found that it was almost certain that letters from two different government departments were written on the same, authentically contemporary, typewriter.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/02/nhimmler02.xml

These are pretty obvious. And its apparent that they actively LOOK at documents before publishing them as fact. So we can assume that these steps have already been taken for the vast majority of all the documents in question.



I have visited the PRO a number of times in recent years in pursuit of my primary research interest (The Ypres Salient in WW I) and have quite frankly been both shocked and astonished at the almost total lack of security that has been apparent up until the quite recent past. Suufice to say, in the period during which I frequeneted the PRO anyone walking in off the street couls obtain a reader’s pass simply on presentation of a British driver’s license – which does not have to be yours, since they do not carry a photograph - following which one can request to check-out any of the many thousands of original files and documents accessible for public use. Having collected the file or files and retired to a quiet corner of the cavernous reading hall, it would be mere childs-play to disassemble the file, remove
or insert documents, and then return the file to the issuing counter without anyone in the PRO being any the wiser. I haven’t been back to the PRO for a while, but would not be surprised to find that security is considerably tightened up now, not just because the Himmler debacle but also in the aftermath of the London bombings.


Such a tampering would be an easy thing to prove. Irving looked at the document. He could look at it in the company of an expert to give an on the spot analysis and then file a report.

TBC

Ambrosio Spinola
04-01-2006, 07:37 PM
Who´s turn is it and is there something worked on to be posted?

Sulla the Dictator
04-03-2006, 10:27 PM
Part III


The correspondence between Höfle and Korherr is indeed most serendipitous.


I suppose. Its an example of how difficult is to hide a crime of this magnitude.


It is doubly auspicious that its full implications were first explored by its diligent discoverers in Holocaust and Genocide Studies, a journal of the US Holocaust Memorial Museum.


Why do you make suggestions like this? When you lack an answer you imply that there's some kind of shady business about this document. Yet you go on later to validate its authenticity!


Did Majdanek actually have any purpose-built ‘extermination facilities’ to speak of? I didn’t think even establishment historians make that claim anymore. And Belzec at least was not that far-away.


:rolleyes:

http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps/Images/Majdanek5.gif

Majdanek.

http://www.deathcamps.org/lublin/pic/bigmajdanekcrema2.jpg



Fine, except that Korherr lists a separate total for Bialystok (see below), which makes sense since the Generalkommisariat Bialystok was not administratively part of the GG.


Thats true, but also not relevant to the question of mass murder....especially since you don't deny the evidence. One must ask, where is Dan's point?


Is Höfle’s signal to be interpreted as including all deportations to the AR camps during 1942, or just those from the GG?


Hoefle's position related to the AR operation primarily, so I would assume that he's talking about slaughter within the camp system rather than just those of the GG.


It’s worth noting at point Korherr’s letter to Der Spiegel vehemently protesting that his famous report

Der SPIEGEL, Nr. 31, 25. Juli 1977, S. 12 :


DER bekannte, rassisch verfolgte Schriftsteller H. G. Adler, früher in Prag, jetzt in London, hat 1960 im Vorwort zur zweiten Auflage seines außerordentlichen Buches "Theresienstadt 1941--1945" geschrieben: "Es sei auch ausdrücklich festgestellt, daß die Bezeichnung Herrn Dr. Korherrs als 'SS-Statistiker' ... nicht stimmt, da er der SS nie angehörte und für sein Verhalten in den Jahren des Nationalsozialismus rehabilitiert ist."
Der SPIEGEL veröffentlicht leider die Behauptung des englischen Historikers Irving, ich hätte im Frühjahr 1943 auf Himmlers Order die Zahl der Opfer des Judentums berechnet. Tatsächlich wurden diese Angaben vom Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) fix und fertig samt Text mir geliefert mit der Auflage, keine Zahl und kein Wort ändern zu dürfen.
Die Angabe, ich hätte dabei auch aufgeführt, daß über eine Million Juden in den Lagern des Generalgouvernements und Warthegaus durch Sonderbehandlung gestorben seien, ist ebenfalls unzutreffend. Ich muß gegen das Wort "gestorben" in diesem Zusammenhang protestieren.
Es war gerade das Wort "Sonderbehandlung", das mich zu der telephonischen Rückfrage beim RSHA veranlaßte, was dieses Wort zu bedeuten habe. Ich bekam die Antwort, es handle sich um Juden, die im Bezirk Lublin angesiedelt würden.
Braunschweig Dr. Richard Korherr

Translation
The well-known, racially persecuted writer H.G. Adler, previously resident in Prague, now in London, wrote in the foreword to the second edition to his extraordinary book Theresienstadt 1941-1945 in 1960: "It has definitely been determined that the designation of Dr. Korherr as SS-statistician...is not true, because he never belonged to the SS and has been rehabilitated insofar as his behaviour in the National Socialist years is concerned."

Unfortunately, Der Spiegel is publishing the claim of the English historian Irving that in the spring of 1942, at Himmler's order, I calculated the number of Jewish victims. In fact, these figures along with the text were delivered to me in completed form by the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) with the order that not one word or figure was to be changed.

The statement that I had claimed in this regard that more than a million Jews had died as a result of special treatment in the camps in German-occupied Poland and in the Warthegau is also incorrect. I have to protest against the word "died" in this context.

It was precisely the term "special treatment" that motivated me to inquire of the RSHA by telephone what this term meant. I received the answer that it referred to Jews who would be settled in the District of Lublin.
Dr. Richard Korherr
Braunschweig



It’s worth noting also, if only in passing, that the naughty word does pop up again in page 10 of the ‘long version’. Perhaps it might not have been such such a naughty word after all, but a matter a bureaucratic punctiliousness.


I want to include this entire section for context. Here Dan provides Korherr more or less validating the authenticity of his report. The question is: Do we believe Korherr's denial about the meaning of the phrase?

Since he acknowledges that he wrote it, lets look at what else he says.

The total number of Jews in the world in 1937 is generally estimated at around 17 million, thereof more than 10 million in Europe. They concentrate or concentrated mainly in the former Polish- Russian areas occupied by Germany between the Baltic Sea and the Gulf of Finland and between the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov, further in the centers of commerce and the Rhine area of Central and Western Europe and on the coasts of the Mediterranean.

From 1937 to the beginning of 1943 the number of Jews, partially due to the excess mortality of the Jews in Central and Western Europe, partially due to the evacuations especially in the more strongly populated Eastern Territories which are here counted as off-going, should have diminished by an estimated 4 million. It must not be overlooked in this respect that of the deaths of Soviet Russian Jews in the occupied Eastern territories only a part was recorded, whereas deaths in the rest of European Russia and at the front are not included at all. In addition there are movements of Jews inside Russia to the Asian part which are unknown to us. The movement of Jews from the European countries outside the German influence is also of a largely unknown order of magnitude. On the whole European Jewry should since 1933, i.e. in the first decade of National Socialist German power, have lost almost half of its population.

Die Gesamtzahl der Juden auf der Erde schätzt man um das Jahr
1937 im allgemeinen auf rund 17 Millionen, wovon über 10 Mil-
lionen auf Europa entfallen. Sie häufen bzw. häuften sich in
Europa vor allem in den von Deutschland besetzten früheren
polnisch-russischen Gebieten zwischen Ostsee und Finnischem
Meerbusen und dem Schwarzen und Asowschen Meer, daneben in den
Handelsmittelpunkten und im Rheingebiet Mittel- und Westeuro-
pas und an den Küsten des Mittelmeers.

Von 1937 bis Anfang 1943 dürfte die Zahl der Juden in Europa
teils durch Auswanderung, teils durch den Sterbeüberschuß der
Juden in Mittel- und Westeuropa, teils durch die Evakuierungen
vor allem in den völkisch stärkeren Ostgebieten, die hier als
Abgang gerechnet werden, um schätzungsweise 4 Millionen zu-
rückgegangen sein. Dabei darf nicht übersehen werden, daß von
den Todesfällen der sowjetrussischen Juden in den besetzten
Ostgebieten nur ein Teil erfaßt wurde, während diejenigen im
übrigen europäischen Rußland und an der Front überhaupt nicht
enthalten sind. Dazu kommen uns unbekannte Wanderungsströme
der Juden innerhalb Rußlands in den asiatischen Bereich hin-

über. Auch der Wanderungsstrom der Juden aus den europäischen
Ländern außerhalb des deutschen Einflusses ist eine weitgehend
unbekannte Größe. Insgesamt dürfte das europäische Judentum
seit 1933, also im ersten Jahrzehnt der nationalsozialistischen
deutschen Machtentfaltung, bald die Hälfte seines Bestandes ver-
loren haben.



I’d also suggest that durchgeschleust might be better understood as ‘channeled through’ rather ‘sifted through’.


Distinction without difference.


A further interesting detail is the use of die Lager im Warthegau meaning camps (plural) in the Warthegau. You are implying that this refers to Chelmno/Kulmhof only, but I wonder what else might have been being referred to here. Auschwitz-Birkenau perhaps? I’m aware that A-B was not administratively within the Warthegau, but the numbers attributed to A-B elsewhere in the report seem awfully low if the standard account is to be followed.


This is pretty selective decision to hold people to legitimate governmental districts.


This document is slightly incongrous to say the least. First, it’s quite unclear how an observer 20 km away could have been able to pinpoint the source of the odours with such accuracy. Also given that the existence of the Treblinka extermination centre was supposed to be a state secret it’s actually quite remarkable that a lower-level Wehrmacht district commander should be aware of what was transpiring there, or even more so, empowering his staff to send a written complaint up the chain of command. Or that those compiling the Quartermaster’s official diary should have included this piece within it. Typical sloppiness on the part of German military bureaucracy, I suppose.


The specific nature of the camps were a state secret. However they were an open dirty one regionally. District leaders know where their trains are going, and where they're coming back from empty.

This is all a bit silly. Conspiracies that you envision simply don't exist. They are never error proof, or completely immune from scrutiny or gleaning.


Are you saying there are train records showing that at least 800,000 Jews were shipped to Treblinka? If so, where are they (the records)?


I've provided you with a place where you can obtain copies of train records. I recommend you do so.



Now that’s strange. Most standard accounts make the case quite strongly that the bureaucratic agreement to embark on the Final Solution was not reached until the Wannsee conference, some three months later. Did Frank and Globocnik have perhaps some inside communications channel directly to Himmler or Heydrich that would have allowed them to jump the gun as you suggest?


Wannsee was not a meeting to achieve agreement on POLICY, it was to achieve consensus on coordination and priority. The policy was already decided, as issued to Heydrich.

Also, Globocnik did have a more direct channel to the upper echelons of the SS.


According to Christopher Browning, who relies on an entry in Goebbels’ diary which gives an account of Hitler’s address to the Reichs- and Gauleiter in his private apartment, even the Führer did not give his nod of approval until December 12 (“The Origins of the Final Solution”, p. 407). So Frank and Globus must have been very well connected indeed.


I believe this addresses the question of Hitler's EMPHASIS on the Final Solution. Obviously the Einsatzgruppen had been operating in the field. And you certainly don't deny THEIR activities.


It’s a little hard to respond intelligently to statements not knowing whether it is something that you have sourced yourself or just cut and paste from somewhere else. Have you actually read the item cited at # 48, “Bogdan Musial, Deutsche Zivilverwaltung und Judenverfolgung im Generalgouvernement. Eine Fallstudie zum Distrikt Lublin 1939-1944 (Wiesbaden: Harrasowitz Verlag, 1999)”, or are you taking someone else’s word that this is what it says, and what it means?


I'm actually trying to understand Dan's argument. What has he challenged? What has he provided as counterpoints? What has he argued?

What has he even denied? He sure does ask a lot of questions. Does the gallery honestly feel that he's given you any answers?


I’m going to have to pause it here since we are now getting into murkier waters of transcripts of movie soundtracks and of West German court depositions that are not in the public domain, and I need a stiff one anyway. A gin and tonic that is


Have two on me.

Justiz und NS-Verbrechen
Nazi Crimes on Trial
German Trial Judgments Concerning
National Socialist Homicidal Crimes

This is the English version of the 'Justiz und NS-Verbrechen' web-site, containing an overview of German trials involving Nazi war crimes of a homicidal nature conducted since 1945 before West and East German courts. Because of the enormous amount of work involved in the translation of the German data files and because we've got a few other things on our hands as well, this part of our site will be under construction for a considerable time. In due time, however, you'll find a near complete translation of the German trial case descriptions at this location. In regular updates we will add more information to these pages.


http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/JuNSVEng/JuNSV%20Front%20page.htm




This would appear to be a fairly low cost admission for Eichmann to make, and quite possibly one that would not be unwelcome for the prosecution. Helpful witnesses are always preferred.


Reichsfuehrer SS
Field Command
Journal No. AR 31/22/42

October 9, 1942

Secret!

With reference to the memorandum from the Commander of the Military District ( Wehrkreisbefehlshaber ) in the Generalgouvernement to the OKW [High Command of the Wehrmacht] concerning the replacement of Jewish labor by Poles, I have the following comments:

1. I have given orders that all so-called armament workers who are actually employed solely in tailoring, furrier and shoe-making workshops be collected in concentration camps on the spot, i.e., in Warsaw and Lublin, under the direction of SS Obergruppenfuehrer Kruger and SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl. The Wehrmacht will send its orders to us, and we guarantee the continuous delivery of the items of clothing required. I have issued instructions, however, that ruthless steps be taken against all those who consider they should oppose this move in the alleged interest of armaments needs, but who in reality only seek to support the Jews and their own businesses.

2. Jews in real war industries, i.e., armament workshops, vehicle workshops, etc., are to be withdrawn step by step. As a first stage they are to be concentrated in separate halls in the factories. In a second stage in this procedure the work teams in these separate halls will be combined, by means of exchange, into closed enterprises wherever this is possible, so that we will then have simply a few closed concentration-camp industries in the Generalgouvernement.

3. Our endeavor will then be to replace this Jewish labor force with Poles and to consolidate most of these Jewish concentration-camp enterprises into a small number of large Jewish concentration-camp enterprises – in the eastern part of the Generalgouvernement, if possible. But there, too, in accordance with the wish of the Fuehrer , the Jews are some day to disappear.

signed H. Himmler

Distribution:
1. SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl
2. SS Obergruppenfuehrer Krueger
3. SS Brigadefuehrer Globocnik
4. Reich Security Main Office ( Reichssicherheitshauptamt )
5. SS Obergruppenfuehrer Wolff.


Nuremberg Documents, NO-1611


And it leads quite nicely into a general point that I wanted to make concerning the postwar West German trials of those accused of Nazi warcrimes.


This will be the first point raised, other than a clarification of "sorting through" instead of "sifting through" in a German translation, the gallery should note. Lets take a look.


In my mind the whole historiography of the West German trials is unsatisfactory.


O rly? :p


None of the trial transcripts are in the public domain (a few of the verdicts are available in German) so it is impossible for a non-specialist to determine how the trials were really conducted.


Dan Dare needs the transcripts of 5,000 trials? What website is supposed to provide that?

Has anyone tried to obtain transcripts and been refused?


It’s unclear for example, to what extent if at all the prosecution witnesses were cross-examined by the defence, or whether their depositions were simply read into the record. It’s also unclear to what extent the famous legal principle of [i]Offenkündigkeit[/i] was invoked to preclude the accused from making statements that challenged received wisdom. Certainly by the time of the 1964 (Franz et al) and 1970 (Stangl) Düsseldorf trials a large number of other trials, as well as the entire IMT proceedings, had previously been completed and these would have collectively established in the legal canon a catalogue of NS crimes that were now held to be [i]offenkündig[/i], or self-evident and therefore immune from challenge.

Consequently Franz, for example would have no more been able to claim that the Nazis had not gassed millions of Jews during WW II than he would have been allowed to dispute the final score in the 1954 World Cup final.


One big problem for Franz was the picture album of his victims and their disposal he made to remember the "Good ol Days".

This is actually absurd, though, since Dan is suggesting that he wasn't allowed to deny such activities while at the same time saying he has no idea what went on. In fact, the trial at Dusseldorf DECIDED what happened at Treblinka.

EXCERPTS FROM JUDGMENTS
(URTEILSBEGRUNDUNG)

Passed on September 3, 1965 in the trial of Kurt Franz and nine others
at the court of Assizes in Dusseldorf (First Treblinka Trial) (AZ-LG
Dusseldorf: II 931638, p. 49 ff.), and the trial of Franz Stangl at
the court of Assizes at Dusseldorf (Second Treblinka Trial) on
December 22, 1970 (pp. 111 ff.,AZ-LG Dusseldorf, XI-148/69 S.)

Number of Persons Killed at the Treblinka Extermination Camp:
-------------------------------------------------------------

At least 700,000 persons, predominantly Jews, but also a number of
Gypsies, were killed at the Treblinka extermination camp.

These findings are based on the expert opinion submitted to the Court
of Assizes by Dr. Helmut Kraunsnick, director of the Institute for
Contemporary History (Institute fur Zeitgeschichte) in Munich. in
formulating his opinion, Dr. Kraunsnick consulted all the German and
foreign archival material accessible to him and customarily studied
in historical research. Among the documents he examined were the
following:

(1) The so-called Stroop report, a report by SS Brigadefuhrer [Brigadier]
Jurgen Stroop dealing with the destruction of the Warsaw ghetto.
This report consists of three parts: namely, an introduction, a
compilation of daily reports and a collection of photographs.

(2) The record of the trial of the major war criminals before the
International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg.

(3) The official transportation documents (train schedules, telegrams,
and train inventories) relevant to the transports to Treblinka.

The latter documents, of which only a part were recovered after the war,
were the subject of the trial and were made available to Dr. Krausnick
by the Court of Assizes.


So in the absence of evidence, Dan decides to theorize what he thinks might happen which would best suit his denial (?) of what happened at Treblinka. He MIGHT not have been allowed to deny it happened. Therefor, the trial MIGHT have been rigged. We don't know, because they MIGHT not release the transcripts.

These trials aren't secret. They're just obscure. If you follow the website link I gave you to the West German court judgements, you can actually see why. Such as a guy who is sentenced to five years because he was an informer for the Nazis.

Moreover, I suspect that "Revisionists" PREFER for it to remain obscure. It wouldn't be helpful if they were to discover that NO ONE denied that these atrocities had happened, even if they denied their role in it or their responsibility.

Its almost certainly the same as at Nuremberg. Plenty of silly little charges get thrown about 'torture' and coercion. I doubt anyone making that charge has actually read a substantial number of interviews that went on with the defendants and witnesses.


All this kind of raises the spectre of earlier show trial formats, of both the Soviet and Nazi varieties. Given the hopelessness of their situation, it is hardly surprising that all the accused without exception threw themselves at the mercy of the court and appeared to go out of their way to assist the prosecution.


Keep in mind, Dan is suggesting the West German Nazi trials were 'show trials' without having any idea about what went on there.

Lets take a look:

Procedure Lfd.Nr. 054
Act complex: Denunziation
Accused:
K., Christian 2 years
S., Gerd acquietal
W., Franz acquietal
Judicial rulings:
LG Aurich 480421
OLG Oldenburg 490329
Act country: Germany
Scene: Marx (old.)
Act time: 43
Victim: Civilians
Nationality: German
Agency: Police Gestapo (v-person) Marx/old.
Procedure article: Denunziation civilians because of military force decomposition, committed by adverse expressions over the national socialism

Published in law and LV crime volume II


http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/JuNSVEng/Casenrsfr.htm

Two released, one found guilty and sentanced for two years for being a Nazi stooge.

Yeah, thats harsh. THIS is what Dan finds a valid comparison to Stalin having people shot as counter revolutionary Troskyite saboteurs or Roland Freisler screaming his head off.


It was probably thought that things would go much better for you in terms of sentencing and later treatment if you confirmed everything that the prosecution wanted to lay out but insisted you had spent the whole period in question guarding the potato shed.


What is this? Honestly, what is this?

Here Potyondi and I provide the gallery with mountains of evidence, reports, documents, and testimony. The reader may disagree with us, but he certainly can't suggest we're lazy or lacking in primary source material.

But Dan has been going on for half this post about what he thinks happened at a trial he finds suspicious BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT! :rofl:


If this is felt to be too far-fetched, consider the recent bizarre behaviour of David Irving at his recent trial in Austria.


This is what passes for evidence? Innuendo?

Austria is not Germany. 2006 is not 1950. David Irving is not Kurt Franz.

And by the way, Irving was ALSO guilty of the crime he was charged with. :p


This is an area in which I personally would like to do much further research.


Why bother? You've already got it all figured out. :p

This has to be more convenient.


I’m going to skip over the Höss testimony since similar comments apply, and I don't think it adds any particularly interesting different dimension. Although I will say that Höss’ statements generally have more recently have come under much closer critical scrutiny since the details emerged about the brutal treatment he was subjected to whilst in custody.


Why should we believe Hoess was mistreated? After all, such allegations come from the untrustworthy Hoess himself. :p

You skip over a great deal, I notice.


Heydrich of course was already dead by the time Treblinka is supposed to have come into ‘full production’ or even opened, but I do take the point. I take it you would also then concur that if AR was indeed a WVHA operation that would tend to support the notion that its principal purpose was economic rather than exterminatory.


I remarked that nevertheless, he did run all the concentration camps.

"Yes, but the camps had nothing to do with it. Himmler chose certain camps and, along with Kaltenbrunner and Mueller, ordered the commandants of these camps to carry out the extermination program. This was done in the chain of command as I have just told you. I emphasize that it was Himmler to Kaltenbrunner to Mueller to Gluecks, who was also one of my subordinate generals, to the individual concentration camp commandants, who had been selected by Himmler to perform the exterminations. Otherwise, Himmler would have had to give orders to me because I was technically in charge of the concentration camps. What I am trying to bring out is that although I am responsible for the camps, and extermination program took place within these camps, I am not responsible for the extermination program itself, because these orders did not go through me, but went through the chain of individuals I have just mentioned."

--Oswald Pohl, head of the SS economic and administrative main office
The Nuremberg Inerviews
Page 403

Pohl also explains that the reason these types of camps fell under his perview was because of the items they were stealing from the bodies. Their teeth, for instance.


Nasty stuff, but its relevance to the discussion is unclear, except as part of a general scene-setting exercise. I don’t know anyone who disputes that the Nazis intended to fleece the Jews of anything they could get their hands on before expelling them from their living-space.


They expelled them with bullets, gas, and disease. You've been presented with plenty of evidence by Potyondi and myself to show that the Jews were removed from their original places of settlement.

You and your friends claim that these camps were transit stations.

Now, I would like for you to identify where they were resettled.

By your own admission, Treblinka can't house the numbers of people who were sent there. Where were they resettled?


I think it’s the case that the WVHA took a keen interest in expropriating the assets of Jews in the Reich, and elsewhere, long before the war even started.


I said that I had heard other stories, and in fact, had seen a film in court a short time ago, during the case of the defendant Funk, which showed other items of gold as well as those he mentioned. Were these articles taken from Jews who were exterminated in the gas chambers and shooting pits of the concentration camps? He replied simply, "Yes." Were there any gold teeth or dental bridgework among the articles he had deposited? Pohl's oxen facial expression did not change as he said, "I assumed that some of the gold bars which I received were melted gold teeth."

--Ibid
Page 402


It is course impossible to identify which items were stolen from Jews whilst still in the ghettos, or which were items left behind when they were removed from their home towns, or items that were taken from them on arrival at the final destination, wherever that was. It stands to reason though that the latter would have comprised the smallest proportion by quantity if not by value.


I don't think thats a relevant distinction, since its all theft.


Blobel and SK 1005 had little to do with eradicating the traces of the Final Solution in Poland, and certainly nothing at all to do with AR.


What is this about? Of course he did. He developed the method, at Heydrich and Mueller's request. He developed the method at Chelmo and the results were sent to Globocnik.


Some curious aspects about this:

(a) What is the evidence for Himmler having visited Treblinka in 1943? It is known he met with Globus in Lublin, and is supposed to have then travelled to Sobibor in a special train, but as far as I am aware there is no evidence for a visit to Treblinka except for the testimony of a single prisoner (Arad p. 166).


He met with Stangl and Franz in Treblinka. He was so impressed with their work that he promoted them after his visit:

http://www.deathcamps.org/euthanasia/pic/bigfranz1.jpg

Moreover, Globocnik wrote a letter to von Herff saying, "The SS Reichsfuehrer, on the occasion of his visit to the Operation Reinhard installations in March, as I have already informed you, has approved the promotion of the best men and commanders who are engaged in this action. Attached is the promotion list, which I have already sent you. "


(b) Given that the RSHA went to a great deal of effort to provision the KL system with crematoria, and also a number of external facilities as well, it frankly strains credulity that they would not install comparable facilities for an operation that was expressly designed for mass murder.


Actually thats silly. It is more difficult to dispose of thousands of bodies than it is to kill thousands of people. It is impossible to construct 'comparable facilities', therefore.

Moreover, if you want to blame someone, blame Globocnik.

Dr. Herbert Lindner: But wouldn't it be wiser to cremate the corpses instead of burying them?

Globocnik: Gentlemen, if there were ever, after us, a generation so cowardly and so soft that they could not understand our work which is so good, so necessary, then, gentlemen, all of National Socialism will have been in vain. We ought, on the contrary, to [u]bury bronze tablets stating that it was we who had the courage to carry out this gigantic task![/u]

--Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka
Arad
Page 101


(c) Similarly, Blobel and SK 1005 were said to have been commissioned to start eliminating the mass graves in Russia and the Ukraine in June 1942, before Treblinka even opened. Curious then that, given the apparent sensivity of the SS management on the subject, Treblinka should be permitted to embark on a mass burial exercise which is said to have continued right up until Himmler’s visit in 1943.


Its not curious at all when you consider the kind of people who run a death camp. All of your doubts are circular. The things which you find incredible can only be such if you START with the assumption that they wern't doing anything, and were nothing more than normal blokes.

Which is absurd.

Another thing you seem to neglect is that the Nazis originally planned on winning the war.


(d) According to Arad (p. 167) Himmler was surprised to learn on his visit that the 800,000-odd bodies had not been cremated as he had ordered but buried instead. Did heads roll as a consequence of this stunning display of incompetence and insubordination? No, on the contrary, most of Germans there received promotions very soon after Himmler’s supposed visit, including both Stangl and Franz (the latter attaining officer rank for the first time).


The mass murdering arm of the SS wasn't quite an elite military unit. :rolleyes:

Himmler knew that better than most. They had killed better than expected. That was why they were promoted.

Now that I think about it, I'd sure like to hear Dan's theory on why cooks and insurance salesmen are being promoted to Untersturmfuhrers, Hauptsturmfuhrers, and Sturmbannfuhrers.

Hundreds of miles behind the front. Whats the reward for?


Not those ruddy excavators again?!? I though we’d done them in the other thread in which you passed to baton to Sulla and his little band of "helpers" [sneer quotes are appropriate on this occasion]. Oh well.


Where I conclusively proved the excavations at Treblinka.


Actually I believe the album was entitled “Schöne Zeiten”, but nevermind. A few points concerning the Album:

(a) It contains photographs from a number of locations, not just Treblinka. Including Franz posing in front of palm trees on the Dalmatian coast, as well other places in Poland and Germany.
(b) It’s still perplexing that an SS NCO who had, according to your earlier narrative, signed an agreement obliging him to acknowledge that “….there is an absolute prohibition on photography in the camps of [i]Einsatz Reindard[/i]” should have felt quite at liberty to swan around this most secret of facilities taking snaps for his personal album. And we’re not talking about a little Minox that could be concealed up your coat-sleeve, but a rather hefty [i]Voigtländer[/i] bellows camera with a 105 mm lens. [See Potty’s link at footnote # 71 below].


Often with admirers, the letters "SS" take on some mystical super soldier magic. You seem to forget that these fellows were the dregs of Germany. You also forget that Franz was a COOK. A cook having a good time using people as punching bags or sicing his dog on them.

Some of the best times of that piece of filth's life.


(c) And not only Franz, if we are to believe the interpretations of later viewers of the album, the camp commandant Stangl is implicated in this state crime of violating the secrecy agreement, as are as any number of SS men who appear in one picture or another. Including this group of merry men (http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/p28.jpg) who are nonchalantly perched on the mid-air grab bucket of an excavator that we are told was engaged in the grisly task of exhuming Jewish corpses. Not wearing masks are even face-cloths against what must been an awful stench, if it could be so objectionable 20 km away in Ostrow.


So because every German who ever put a gun to the head of an innocent human being wasn't a martinet or a Waffen SS super soldier following orders to jump off a cliff, no one ever died at Nazi hands who didn't deserve it?

Thats in essence what Dan is arguing. Dan doesn't seem to understand that punishment is in place to deal with those who break the rules because people ACTUALLY DO break the rules.


In reality, without a signed attestation from Franz, or an accompanying caption in his own hand identifying the specific location, most of these pictures could have been taken almost anywhere in northern Germany or Poland. Except for those with the palm trees of course.


And except for those with Stangl. And those with his new promotion. And those where he's digging up the bodies of his victims.

Ruger
09-08-2009, 03:14 PM
Sulla the Dictator

I suppose. Its an example of how difficult is to hide a crime of this magnitude.

I couldn't agree more Sulla. Just how hard would it be to locate / prove the existence of the alleged “huge mass graves” if they did in fact exist?

This of course begs the question:

So where exactly are all these alleged “huge mass graves” filled with millions of pounds of bone fragments, tens of millions of teeth and tens of thousands of bullets and shell casings?


Can you locate / prove the existence of just one grave that contains just one tenth of one percent of the alleged mass murder?


Huh Sulla? Can you?