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maxsnafu
12-01-2008, 02:59 PM
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/articles/MacDonald-BenStein.html#Stein

Ben Stein's Expelled: Was Darwinism a Necessary Condition for the Holocaust?

Kevin MacDonald

December 1, 2008

In my previous column, I noted the Stalinist tendencies of the leftists that are so entrenched in the academic world. The fact is that the academic left has never been concerned about truth. This is the fundamental message of my book, The Culture of Critique where I trace the involvement of Jewish intellectual activists in producing a leftist academic culture that promoted specifically Jewish goals, including lessening the political power and cultural influence of European-derived peoples and the eradication of anti-Semitism.

Chief among the bogeymen of these Jewish intellectuals is Darwinism. The war against Darwinism is a major theme of The Culture of Critique, and it persists as a constant drumbeat in our culture—from the cultural Marxists who are in charge of socializing our college students to a great many examples in popular culture.

Consider Ben Stein's film Expelled. Stein depicts Darwinism as a stifling orthodoxy that suppresses free inquiry into how things got this way. And in particular, the triumph of Darwinism has meant that the theory of intelligent design has been banished from the realm of reasonable discourse in the academic world.

Of course, intelligent design is not a reasonable alternative at all, but a highly motivated effort to legitimize a religious world view in the sciences. But why would Ben Stein produce a movie that panders to religious conservatives? It would doubtless be pretty hard to find anyone in the Jewish intelligentsia who in the privacy of their innermost thoughts believes in God.

Indeed, it's fair to say that the mainstream Jewish community regards Christian religious sentiment with fear and loathing. For example, Elliott Abrams, whose title in the Bush Administration (Deputy National Security Advisor for Global Democracy Strategy) sounds like a neocon wet dream, acknowledges that the mainstream Jewish community “clings to what is at bottom a dark vision of America, as a land permeated with anti-Semitism and always on the verge of anti-Semitic outbursts.” According to Abrams, because of this vision, Jews have taken the lead in secularizing America. In fact, the key role of Jewish organizations in shaping the Constitutional law on Church/State relations is well known.

The deep structure of Expelled can be inferred from another comment by Elliott Abrams. Abrams thinks that a strong role for Christianity in America is good for Jews:

In this century we have seen two gigantic experiments at postreligious societies where the traditional restraints of religion and morality were entirely removed: Communism and Nazism. In both cases Jews became the special targets, but there was evil enough even without the scourge of anti-Semitism. For when the transcendental inhibition against evil is removed, when society becomes so purely secular that the restraints imposed by God on man are truly eradicated, minorities are but the earliest victims.

I think Abrams and Stein are on the same page. I make this inference because in his film promoting intelligent design Stein argues that Darwinism was a necessary condition for the Holocaust. In making a movie that attempts to legitimize “Creation Science” in the academic world, Stein is thinking not so much about intellectual honesty or the relative adequacy of Darwinism and Creation Science in producing testable hypotheses and mountains of supporting evidence. He is asking an age-old question: “Is it good for the Jews?” If Darwinism is not good for the Jews, then so much the worse for Darwinism.

In mounting a war on Darwinism or at least attempting to control it, Stein is entirely within the mainstream of Jewish opinion, at least for the last 100 years or so. The triumph of the Boasian school of anthropology over Darwinism in the early years of the 20th century was a watershed event in intellectual history of the West — in effect more or less obliterating what had been a thriving Darwinian intellectual milieu. This era of Darwinian domination of the social sciences included several well-known Jewish racial Zionists, such as Arthur Ruppin, who were motivated by the fear that Diaspora Judaism would lose its biological uniqueness as a result of pressures for intermarriage and assimilation.

Among the Zionists, the racialists won the day. Ruppin’s ideas on the necessity of preserving Jewish racial purity have had a prominent place in the Jabotinsky wing of Zionism, including especially the Likud party in Israel and its leaders—people like Ariel Sharon, Menachem Begin, and Yitzhak Shamir. (Here’s a photo of Sharon speaking to a Likud Party convention in 2004 under a looming photo of Jabotinsky.) Jabotinsky believed that Jews were shaped by their long history as a desert people and that the establishment of Israel as a Jewish state would allow the natural genius of the Jewish race to flourish, stating, for example: “These natural and fundamental distinctions embedded in the race are impossible to eradicate, and are continually being nurtured by the differences in soil and climate.” As Geoffrey Wheatcroft recently pointed out, at the present time Israel “is governed by [Jabotinsky’s] conscious heirs.”

But it was the Boasians who won the day in the academic establishment of the West. Whereas Jewish intellectuals played a bit part in the wider movement of racial Darwinism, the Boasian revolution which triumphed in academic anthropology in the West was overwhelmingly a Jewish intellectual movement.

And besides the Boasians, a great many Jewish social scientists of the period were also attracted to a thriving cult of Lamarckism — the view that evolution works via the inheritance of acquired characteristics rather than Darwin’s theory of natural selection. Indeed, Lamarckism became official ideology in the Soviet Union because of its easy compatibility with Marxist visions of utopia: Creating the socialist society would biologically alter its citizens.

Both theories combated racialist theories of Judaism that depicted it as having a biological uniqueness. (Actually, Boas’s approach is more an anti-theory because it cast doubt on general theories of human culture common among Darwinian anthropologists of the period, emphasizing instead the vast diversity and chaotic minutiae of human cultures, as well as the relativism of standards of cultural evaluation.) For example, based on skull measurements and IQ testing, racial scientists, including some racial Zionists, concluded that Jews had evolved to have higher IQ, but this was often linked with a tendency toward psychopathology—the “nervous Jew.”

The Boasians and the Lamarckians countered with the view that Jewish traits had resulted from historical conditions. As historian Mitchell B. Hart notes, “the positions taken by Jewish researchers [i.e., the Zionist racialists, the Lamarckians, and the Boasians] were driven in large measure by ideological commitments and political goals.” Three different groups of Jewish social scientists, three different ideological agendas stemming from their different views on how social science can best serve Jewish interests.

Boas’s famous study purporting to show that skull shape changed as a result of immigration from Europe to America was a very effective propaganda weapon in this cause of the anti-racialists. Indeed, it was intended as propaganda. Based on their reanalysis of Boas’s data, physical anthropologists Corey Sparks and Richard Jantz do not accuse Boas of scientific fraud, but they do find that his data do not show any significant environmental effects on cranial form as a result of immigration. They also claim that Boas may well have been motivated by a desire to end racialist views in anthropology:

While Boas never stated explicitly that he had based any conclusions on anything but the data themselves, it is obvious that he had a personal agenda in the displacement of the eugenics movement in the United States. In order to do this, any differences observed between European- and U.S.-born individuals will be used to its fullest extent to prove his point.

This view certainly dovetails with my research. Boas can now be officially grouped with his student and protégé Margaret Mead as using social science to further a leftist, anti-Darwinian political agenda.

Concerns about scientific fraud have also dogged Larmarckism. Lamarckism was a pillar of the intellectual left in the West during the 1920s but declined rapidly after its major scientific proponent, Paul Kammerer, committed suicide shortly after an article appearing in the prestigious British journal Nature accused him of scientific fraud. Kammerer, who was half Jewish on his mother’s side, was a staunch socialist. He wrote that Lamarckian inheritance offered hope for humanity through education, and he became a hero among committed Socialists and Communists. Despite Kammerer’s disgrace, Lamarckism lived on in the Soviet Union under Trofim Lysenko, with disastrous results on agricultural policy.

Interestingly, Boas, who was also a political radical, continued to accept Lamarckism up until his death in 1942 — long after it had been discredited by accusations of scientific fraud. The moral seems to be that people who use science to advance their political agendas are unlikely to reject politically attractive theories for trivial reasons like lack of evidence and a history of cooked data. Isn’t that how science is supposed to operate? Not surprisingly, that other pseudoscientific charlatan, Sigmund Freud, also continued believing in Lamarckism long after it had been scientifically discredited.

Ben Stein’s brief for intelligent design is therefore in the long line of movements, beginning with Boas and Lamarck, that have attempted to undercut Darwin as a pillar of Western science. Each of them is mistaken (to be generous) and each was highly motivated. Among Jewish participants, the motives can be quite straightforwardly related to their Jewish identity.

But we still must ask what to make of Ben Stein’s claim that Darwinism was a necessary condition for the Holocaust. John Derbyshire characterizes the charge as a “blood libel on our civilization” which indeed it is. Nevertheless, such a claim should not be taken lightly. For example, it is common among historians to hold views similar to Michael Hart’s statement that “it is impossible to understand the Holocaust without comprehending the degree to which racial science and a medicalized racial ideology occupied central positions in Nazi thought and policy.”

By the same token, I suppose, one could argue that the Palestinian catastrophe is the result of the triumph of the racial Zionists and their Likudnik descendents in Israel. Or one could argue that Darwinism does not necessarily lead to the specific views attributed to the National Socialists.

And one could certainly note that genocides occurred long before World War II and they have continued to occur without any specific Darwinian ideology. Indeed, as noted above, Elliott Abrams places Communism in the same category as Nazism when it comes to the ill effects of removing a religious world view. Just recently, the Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko petitioned the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe to recognize the 1932–1933 Ukrainian famine as an act of genocide—a genocide carried out by an avowedly Marxist government at a time when Jews formed an elite within the Soviet Union. Indeed, it has been estimated that Communist governments murdered over 90,000,000 people in the 20th century, including 25,000,000 in the USSR. These murders were certainly not carried out under a Darwinian ideology.

And genocides have been carried out under religious ideologies as well. Christiane Amanpour’s God’s Warriors series certainly shows that religious ideology can motivate the most extreme of fanaticisms, from Jihad to much of the West Bank settler movement (including both its Christian and Jewish supporters). (The Christian and Muslim segments are still on You Tube. But the Jewish segment has been removed, presumably by the same Jewish fanatics featured in the segment. But you can still see two rebuttals put out by the pro-Zionists: Part I and Part II. )

Ben Stein is wrong. There is no reason at all to suppose that adopting a religious world view immunizes against genocide. Perhaps he and Elliott Abrams are simply expressing their belief that present forms of Christianity would not lead to a Holocaust even if they achieved a great deal more power over public policy. This was the view of neocon guru Leo Strauss who is quite possibly the inspiration for both Abrams and Stein. They could be right about that, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.

But let’s not be naïve. Darwin did indeed have a dangerous idea. In the same way that the evolutionary theory of sex has illuminated the deep structure of the human mating game, evolutionary theory points to the deep structure of genocide as a particularly violent form of ethnic competition. But ethnic competition is ethnic competition whether its carried out in an orgy of violence, or by forcible removal of people from land on the West Bank by Jewish settlers or by forcible removal of Native Americans during the 19th century by white settlers, or by peaceful displacement of whites via current levels of immigration into Western societies.

From a Darwinian perspective, the end result is no different. The genetic structure of the population has changed. Darwin, of course, understood this. Notice, for example, the subtitle of his masterpiece: On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.

We all have an implicit understanding of human sexual politics. What Darwin did (with the help of Robert Trivers) is to produce an explicit theory which explains sexual politics. But sexual politics and genocide existed long before Darwin came along. And it is at least questionable whether the occurrence of future genocide would be more or less likely if most people had an explicitly Darwinian theory. Humans seem to be able to commit mass murder under multiple ideological umbrellas.

And it could be argued that adopting an explicitly Darwinian perspective would actually lead to less genocide. For example, by understanding that ethnonational aspirations are a normal consequence of our evolutionary psychology, we could at least build societies that, unlike the Soviet Union, are not likely to commit genocide on their own people. Nor would we be saddled with a multicultural cauldron of competing and distrustful ethnic groups. And, as noted in a previous article, societies based on ethnonationalism would have other benefits as well: Greater openness to redistributive policies; greater trust and political participation; and a greater likelihood of adopting democratic political systems based on the rule of law.

So three cheers for Darwin and for science. Long may they live. And please, no more Ben Steins trying to send us back to the Dark Ages.

Kevin MacDonald is a professor of psychology at California State University–Long Beach.

leondegrance
12-02-2008, 09:12 PM
I recorded Expelled for my mother, who is a staunch Catholic. I didn't want to watch it because Ben Stein disturbs me but I watched it out of curiosity anyways.

ID is a watered down approach to put creationism back into academia. It really has no place in science classes. Stein links Darwanism to the eugenics philosophy during the Nazi rise to power in WWII Germany. At the end of the film Stein states that the United States is great because of its "freedoms".

But are we really free? Do we have freedom of association? Why is it good that a country that was 95 percent white just 60 years ago is now about half that and is being run by untermensch. Stein doesn't answer that.

whydoyouwanttoknow
12-22-2008, 11:20 AM
Expelled is the biggest load of shit I have watched in my entire life. I managed to get through 55 minutes of it before it wasn't even amusing to watch the stupidity of Ben Stein anymore.

delete
12-22-2008, 12:25 PM
I think the jews understand that the next big thing will be evolution, so they are already trying to get to go for a jew to listen to this time as well.

Jews on Jews: Jews are Great

Steven Pinker Discusses "Jews, Genes, & Intelligence" at the Center for Jewish History.

Of the twelve billion people who have graced this earth, fewer than one hundred have earned the title of "Gentile Adored by My Jewish Grandmother."

Mark Twain successfully infiltrated the order when he penned Concerning the Jews, an article discussing the intellectual prowess and survival skills of the Jewish people. The membership otherwise consists largely of Europeans who helped Jews during the Holocaust and political leaders who have gone out of their way to make peace with Israel.

Three University of Utah anthropologists have done their darndest to reach that rarified group close to my grandmother's heart: Gregory Cochran, Jason Hardy and Henry Harpending collaborated on "The Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence," a paper recently accepted for publication in the Journal of Biosocial Sciences. In the article, they unveil a theory for why Jews have an average IQ that's one standard deviation above the European norm.
Advertisement


If there's one thing that Jews love more than gentiles raving about Jews, it's Jews raving about Jews, which is probably why a lecture I attended last week was completely packed with Jewish blue-hairs. Steven Pinker, rock star cognitive scientist, bestselling author, and Yid-to-the-core, was to give his take on the paper, and the exiles from Egypt flocked to the Center for Jewish History on 16th Street for the occasion. Never one to miss a meeting of the Mutual Admiration Society, I flocked, too.

Upon entrance, we had to pass through metal detectors. On the same day the Transportation Security Administration lifted the ban on small scissors in airplanes, the woman in front of me was told she had to remove her tiny shears from her bag before she could go any further. Perhaps she was planning to crop the speaker's luxuriant, flowing hair and thereby deprive him of his superhuman intellectual strength. More than likely, she probably wanted to clip her nails.

It's possible that the center has these metal detectors up every day, but the message for this lecture was clear: We must acknowledge that others will be jealous of our brilliance and seek to destroy us for it. Forget the subways, a concentration of New York Jewish intellectuals is too good a target for anyone to pass up.

I sat down next to a sophomore anthropology major from NYU and scanned the audience: Jews all the way down with maybe the occasional goy hoping to catch a glimpse through the chosen peephole. Not many. And a black guy. Just one.

Steven Pinker climbed onto the stage and immediately laid out his most convincing credential: a fully-stocked reservoir of Jewish linguistic humor. He defined such words as "jewbilation"—pride in finding out that one's favorite celebrity is Jewish and "meinstein"— slang for, "my son, the genius."

http://seedmagazine.com/news/2005/12/jews_on_jews_jews_are_great.php

Ahknaton
12-22-2008, 12:29 PM
Chief among the bogeymen of these Jewish intellectuals is Darwinism. The war against Darwinism is a major theme of The Culture of Critique, and it persists as a constant drumbeat in our culture—from the cultural Marxists who are in charge of socializing our college students to a great many examples in popular culture.
WTF???

K-Mac just isn't making any sense here. Darwinism isn't "chief among the bogeymen of these Jewish intellectuals". They may resist the logical implications of Darwinism (because it smacks too much of the biological determinism of Nazism), but Jewish or leftist intellectuals certainly are not at the vanguard of anti-Darwinist campaigning. In fact Creationism is a major bogeyman for them, as it represents conservative White Christians. This paradox is an example of the double-think that must be engaged in by anyone who adopts an essentially illogical worldview.

Ahknaton
12-22-2008, 02:31 PM
Related thread:

http://thephora.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29712

Count Sudoku
12-22-2008, 03:01 PM
I thought it was a slightly less than okay movie. I watched the whole thing free and at home but near the end I couldn't wait for it to be over.

I forget how he ties in nazis with Darwinism but the main issue is academic freedom. Apparently discussing ID is almost as bad as discussing racial differences in intelligence and a sure way to get fired and blacklisted in academia.

From a freedom of speech and inquiry point of view I support this movie.

The case for ID is based on the concept that it is impossible for non-living material to just magically come alive. I think most people agree that at one time way there was nothing alive on Earth in which case how did the first living cell come into being?

Scientists have tried to create life from non-living material and have so far failed.

Boleslaw
12-22-2008, 05:12 PM
Haven't seen the movie, and I don't really intend to do so anytime soon. This issue tends to bore me really.

However, this further shows why I despise Occidental Dissent and the rest of the Darwinian Right. They're as asinine as their counterparts on the Left.

Petr
12-22-2008, 07:29 PM
However, this further shows why I despise Occidental Dissent and the rest of the Darwinian Right. They're as asinine as their counterparts on the Left.
My opinion of MacDonald's scholarly capabilities has been declining lately. Nowadays I see him as yet another Darwinian just-so storyteller, although an unusual one who is aware of the Jewish question and has indeed dug up some valuable information - sort of like Mel Gibson is an unusual Hollywood star. But I do not consider him worthy of any special adulation as an infallible guru.

Like it's noted in here:

Likewise, Kevin MacDonald is a very intelligent and courageous man, and courage covers a multitude of sins, but he who lives by Darwin will die by Darwin: "Here, for example, is Kevin MacDonald in a previous book: ‘The human mind was not designed to seek truth but rather to attain evolutionary goals.’ This trembles on the edge of deconstructionist words-have-no-meaning relativism, of the kind that philosopher David Stove called ‘puppetry theory,’ and that MacDonald himself debunks very forcefully in Chapter 5 of The Culture of Critique. After all, if it is so, should we not suppose that evolutionary psychologists are pursuing their own ‘group evolutionary strategy’? And that, in criticizing them, I am pursuing mine? And that there is, therefore, no point at all in my writing, or your reading, any further?" Exactly so, and I can’t help but grin when I think of how R.J. Rushdoony could smash this kind of pretzel logic.

http://spiritwaterblood.com/index.php/trendy_blue/comments/the_only_thing_that_is_illegal_to_question/


Petr

Petr
12-22-2008, 07:30 PM
WTF???

K-Mac just isn't making any sense here. Darwinism isn't "chief among the bogeymen of these Jewish intellectuals". They may resist the logical implications of Darwinism (because it smacks too much of the biological determinism of Nazism), but Jewish or leftist intellectuals certainly are not at the vanguard of anti-Darwinist campaigning. In fact Creationism is a major bogeyman for them, as it represents conservative White Christians. This paradox is an example of the double-think that must be engaged in by anyone who adopts an essentially illogical worldview.
Here would be one subject on which I would directly challenge MacDonald's scholarship:

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9775/jeweurochartst4.jpg (http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jeweurochartst4.jpg)
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/jeweurochartst4.jpg/1/w786.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img370/jeweurochartst4.jpg/1/)

Source: http://www.theoccidentalquarterly.com/archives/vol2no2/km-unique.html


I find this above chart of Kevin MacDonald to be disingenious narrative-spinning. He is just making up a Darwinist just-so story about how Aryans and Semites came to be so different.

But how does MacDonald define "European"? (A very vague term when you think about it.) I do not think that he means "Christian peoples", for he is a materialistic racist and tries to avoid admitting the importance of impact of religion on cultures.

Does he possibly mean "Indo-Europeans"? But there's a big problem on that idea. Namely that non-Christian Indo-European Aryan peoples like the Persians and Hindus have definitely had the same kind of un-individualistic, authoritarian, caste-bound cultures as Jews in MacDonald's model. Heck, even the European Celts had almost "Asiatic" tripartite caste society of priests, warriors and peasants before the Roman conquest.


It was only during the 2nd millennium BC that the Aryan tribes that became the ancestors of Persians and Hindus began to flood from the north, from the steppes of Central Asia, southwards to conquer their present living areas - they would have shared just the same conditions as those Aryan peoples who headed westwards instead, to conquer Europe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persians#History

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/IE_expansion.png

Scheme of Indo-European migrations from ca. 4000 to 1000 BC according to the Kurgan hypothesis. The purple area corresponds to the assumed Urheimat (Samara culture, Sredny Stog culture). The red area corresponds to the area which may have been settled by Indo-European-speaking peoples up to ca. 2500 BC; the orange area to 1000 BC.


Petr

Kodos
12-22-2008, 10:08 PM
LOL KMAC thinks early Europeans had some democratic liberal social structure with female equality and all that garbage (women have more power among jews then anyone else, if he actually knew any jews he'd know this) hes a bigger bullshit artist then I thought. Rejoice though anti semites, he has proved that even in ZOGLAND anti semitic bullshit artistry can be profitable.

whydoyouwanttoknow
12-24-2008, 03:56 PM
I thought it was a slightly less than okay movie. I watched the whole thing free and at home but near the end I couldn't wait for it to be over.

I forget how he ties in nazis with Darwinism but the main issue is academic freedom. Apparently discussing ID is almost as bad as discussing racial differences in intelligence and a sure way to get fired and blacklisted in academia.

From a freedom of speech and inquiry point of view I support this movie.

The case for ID is based on the concept that it is impossible for non-living material to just magically come alive. I think most people agree that at one time way there was nothing alive on Earth in which case how did the first living cell come into being?

Scientists have tried to create life from non-living material and have so far failed.

Since when is science determined through freedom of speech? If your idea isn't supported then it doesn't deserve to be a theory. To think otherwise is to not understand science.

Science is not a forum where every idea is thrown into the ring. Doctors aren't taught the 4 humours because to do otherwise would violate freedom of speech. Astronomers aren't taught that the planets and stars influence human destiny. These ideas, while believed by some now and through history, are not supported by scientific evidence and so they too are not taught as science, which is exactly where ID belongs.


Plus evolution is not about the creation of life, something which Ben Stein and many Creationists (which I'm assuming you are) do not seem to understand. The creation of life is Abiogenesis which has nothing to do with evolution.

Macrobius
12-24-2008, 04:13 PM
WTF???

K-Mac just isn't making any sense here. Darwinism isn't "chief among the bogeymen of these Jewish intellectuals". They may resist the logical implications of Darwinism (because it smacks too much of the biological determinism of Nazism), but Jewish or leftist intellectuals certainly are not at the vanguard of anti-Darwinist campaigning. In fact Creationism is a major bogeyman for them, as it represents conservative White Christians. This paradox is an example of the double-think that must be engaged in by anyone who adopts an essentially illogical worldview.

This is more typical of Jewish reasoning on the Creation, hardly Creationist or Y.E.C.:

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2005/01/rabbi_aryeh_kap.html

Ariyeh Kaplan is a former physicist turned Kabbalist. His works are credited with having single-handedly made Kabbalah 'intellectually respectable' among academic jews. Hence the modern surge of 'converts' to Kabbalistic practice.

Notice that his writing style is entirely framed in tradition (rather like a modern scholastic Catholic taking up the Summa form), but its content is entirely 'modern'. Perhaps our notion of modernity is approaching the Talmud style, so that is not necessarily a conflict. However, as 'orthodox conservatism' it is rather strangely like Affirmative Catholicism in its re-interpretation of the past to expedite the present.

Count Sudoku
12-24-2008, 05:42 PM
Since when is science determined through freedom of speech?

Since always. "We" used to think the Sun revolved around the Earth and questioning that was punishable by death.

If your idea isn't supported then it doesn't deserve to be a theory. To think otherwise is to not understand science.

I agree but science has been politicized so even if you have all the evidence in the world on some subjects you will not be given a fair hearing.

Science is not a forum where every idea is thrown into the ring.

Who said it was?

Doctors aren't taught the 4 humours because to do otherwise would violate freedom of speech. Astronomers aren't taught that the planets and stars influence human destiny. These ideas, while believed by some now and through history, are not supported by scientific evidence and so they too are not taught as science, which is exactly where ID belongs.

Those ideas were proven false because freedom of speech allowed them to be proven false. Nowadays liberals say certain ideas are true (when they aren't or possibly aren't) and fire those who dare disagree.

Plus evolution is not about the creation of life, something which Ben Stein and many Creationists (which I'm assuming you are) do not seem to understand. The creation of life is Abiogenesis which has nothing to do with evolution.

I'm not a creationist. I don't really care one way or another. I do however care that science has been politicized and the public is subjected to bullshit like "there are hardly any differences between the races" which is what I believed up to 4 years ago because that was all I heard on the subject from "the authorities".

Petr
12-24-2008, 07:18 PM
This is more typical of Jewish reasoning on the Creation, hardly Creationist or Y.E.C.:

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2005/01/rabbi_aryeh_kap.html

Ariyeh Kaplan is a former physicist turned Kabbalist. His works are credited with having single-handedly made Kabbalah 'intellectually respectable' among academic jews. Hence the modern surge of 'converts' to Kabbalistic practice.

Notice that his writing style is entirely framed in tradition (rather like a modern scholastic Catholic taking up the Summa form), but its content is entirely 'modern'. Perhaps our notion of modernity is approaching the Talmud style, so that is not necessarily a conflict. However, as 'orthodox conservatism' it is rather strangely like Affirmative Catholicism in its re-interpretation of the past to expedite the present.
An interesting Wall Street Journal article below.

I believe that Talmudic Judaism, with its great tradition of pragmatically flexible interpretation (i.e., Bible-twisting exegetical gymnastics) - and with its secret commitment to panentheistic emanationism of Kabbalah - finds it much easier to reconcile itself with evolutionism than Biblical Christianity does.


A Tradition's Evolution: Is Darwin Kosher?

The seeming ease with which this branch of Judaism has embraced science can in large part be credited to the towering intellectual legacy of Moses Maimonides. In his 12th-century masterpiece, "Guide to the Perplexed," Maimonides opened the door to a Judaism unfettered by a literal reading of religious texts.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118308869790152666.html?mod=taste_primary_hs

The truth is, the Talmudists have never cared much about the original, genuine meaning of the Old Testament texts to begin with, so why would they start now? Learned Pharisee rabbis were treating the literal letter of Torah with condescending irreverence already before anyone had even heard about Darwin.


Petr

whydoyouwanttoknow
12-25-2008, 12:18 AM
Since always. "We" used to think the Sun revolved around the Earth and questioning that was punishable by death.

No, there is no freedom of speech in science. If your idea has no merit, if it has no evidence, etc, then it doesn't get to be a theory no matter what you and Ben Stein believe.

Plus science didn't execute them, RELIGION did.

Count Sudoku
12-25-2008, 01:19 AM
No, there is no freedom of speech in science. If your idea has no merit, if it has no evidence, etc, then it doesn't get to be a theory no matter what you and Ben Stein believe.

I didn't say anything said would be accepted as a theory worth debating without evidence.

What we have now is censorship in science and academia because it has been politicized.

Plus science didn't execute them, RELIGION did.

At the time, religion was a if not the authority in charge or able to veto certain topics in education.

Speaking of which, political correctness and the belief in racial equality is basically a modern religion.