Jews pay for anti-Christianity slogans on hundreds of buses worldwide

[Flint Steel]

Atheist adverts declaring that "there's probably no God" have been placed on 800 buses around Britain after an unprecedented fundraising campaign.

Organiser, jewess Ariane Sherine (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/06/religion-atheism) originally hoped to put the message on just a handful of London buses, as an antidote to posters put up by religious groups which they claimed were "threatening eternal damnation" to non-believers.

But after the campaign received high-profile support from the prominent atheist Prof Richard Dawkins and the British Humanist Association, the modest £5,500 target was met within minutes and more than £140,000 has now been donated since the launch in October.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4141765/Atheist-buses-denying-Gods-existence-take-to-streets.html


"Almost without exception, the intellectual leaders of Marxist atheism in Germany were Jews, among them being Erich Weinert, Felix Abraham, Dr. Levy-Lenz and others. At regular meetings, held in the presence of a notary public, members were requested to register their declaration of withdrawal from their church for a fee of 2 Marks. And this the fight for atheism was carried on. Between 1918 and 1933 the withdrawals from the German Evangelical Churches alone amounted to two- and-a-half million persons in Germany. The programme which these atheistic societies laid down in regard to sexual matters is amply charcterized in the following demands publicly expressed at meetings and distributed in leaflet form:

1) The complete abrogation of the paragraphs of the law dealing with the crime of abortion, and the right to have abortion procured free of charge in State Hospitals.

2) Non-interference with prostitution.

3) The abrogation of all bourgeois-capitalistic regulations in regard to marriage and divorce.

4) Official registration to be optional and the children to be educated by the community.

5) Abrogation of all penalties for sexual perversities and amnesty to be granted to all persons condemned as 'sexual criminals'.

"Truly a case of methodical insanity, which has for its aim the wilful destruction of the nations and their civilization and the substitute of barbarism as a fundamental principle of public life.

"Where are the men behind the scenes of this virulent world movement? Who are the inventors of all this madness? Who transplanted this ensemble into Russia and is today making the attempt to have it prevail in other countries? The answer to these question discloses the actual secret of our anti-Jewish policy and our uncomromising fight against Jewry; for the Bolshevic International is in reality nothing less than a Jewish International."

Part of a speech by Dr. Joseph Goebbels, delivered in Nuernberg on September 13th, 1935 at the Seventh National-Socialist Party Congress.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb58.htm



Is the pope Catholic? Richard Dawkins - Jewish.

His mother was Jean Mary Vyvyan Dawkins (nee Ladner).
http://www.biographybase.com/biography/Dawkins_Richard.html

Ladner Name Meaning and History
Jewish (Ashkenazic): occupational name for a shopkeeper, from a
derivative of Laden ‘shop’.
http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Ladner-civil-war.ashx

-Names ending in "-ner" (Asner, Lardner, etc.)
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:37gFCsr6TWYJ:wsi.matriots.com/jews7.html+jewish+names+lardner&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3

According to Jewish law, a child born to a Jewish mother... is considered a Jew.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/whojew1.html



'Jewish lobby' model for atheist
JTA, Published: 10/02/2007

A renowned atheist cited the "Jewish lobby" as a model for his campaign to promote atheism in the United States.

Richard Dawkins said he wanted to gain the same kind of influence as the Jewish lobby, saying it "monopolizes" U.S. foreign policy.

"When you think about how fantastically successful the Jewish lobby has been, though, in fact, they are less numerous I am told -- religious Jews anyway -- than atheists and [yet they] more or less monopolize American foreign policy as far as many people can see," Dawkins, a British evolutionary biologist who advocates atheism, told the Guardian newspaper. "So if atheists could achieve a small fraction of that influence, the world would be a better place."

Dawkins, an Oxford professor who wrote the best-seller "The God Delusion," told the Guardian that he wants to organize American atheists to counter the influence of religious groups.

"I think some sort of political organization is what they need," he said.

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:QDGgPGU4S84J:jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/104454.html%27,595,700)+Jewish+lobby%27+model+for+atheist&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1

[Geist]

You realize Jews are supposed to believe in God too?

[Stroemmer]

You realize Jews are supposed to believe in God too?

They do. Money.

[American_Celt]

I say we join and help these wonderful Atheists.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3686/bbweb2.jpg

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/655/bbweb4.jpg

A shame Brooklyn is an hour and a half drive for me because of traffic. Would be the perfect place for these signs.

Now if you're British then perhaps placing the local Atheist organization's sign next to the largest Mosque in London would be helpful. And mentioning Ariane Sherine as the organizer.

[Angler]

Richard Dawkins said he wanted to gain the same kind of influence as the Jewish lobby, saying it "monopolizes" U.S. foreign policy.Dawkins said that? Wow. Even the Dawkins-hating Christians around here should give him credit for that.

I have no strong opinions on Dawkins one way or the other, but I'm always glad when any prominent figure names the Jew.

[Jimbo Gomez]

Dawkins said that? Wow. Even the Dawkins-hating Christians around here should give him credit for that.

I have no strong opinions on Dawkins one way or the other, but I'm always glad when any prominent figure names the Jew.


Everybody in Europe who follows international events knows about the power of your jewish lobby. The only country in the world where it's a taboo to mention the power of this lobby is the USA itself. He didn't say anything shocking, and people in the UK wouldn't have been outraged or surprised by this statement. It's not un-PC here to say that America is Israel's bitch. It gets touchier when you begin to talk about their influence on American domestic matters.

[Faceless]

Richard Dawkins is anti Jewish:
5BmBnvFTCW0

[MadScienceType]

It gets touchier when you begin to talk about their influence on American domestic matters.

Could you elaborate? You mean like Hollywood or Political Correctness?

[Jimbo Gomez]

Could you elaborate? You mean like Hollywood or Political Correctness?


Homosexuals are the most protected 'special group' here. If you say that in your neck of the woods jews have promoted their cause, and that you consider this a bad thing, you're walking on very fragile eggs. Just one example. In general, the political correctness.

Most people here don't know how much of Hollywood they own. If you'd tell them that, they'd believe it, but would shrug and think little of it.

[Flavia]

You realize Jews are supposed to believe in God too?

The atheist movement is an anti-Christian/European movement shrouded under the guise of "reason."

It seeks not to discredit the Jewish religion, and to a lesser extent Muslims (although Daniel Dennet does focus on them). The focus of the vitriol, ridicule and aggression is the Christian religion. I read Dawkins and most of Hitchen's book and they are mostly a take-down of Christianity. Some lip service from Hitchens regarding the Old Testament and the tradition of rabbis sucking the foreskin off of circumcised babies' cocks, but that was about it.

No mention of the Talmud and its racist/genocidal/sexually depraved/fecal obsessed tendencies. Nothing about Jewish women shaving their heads and wearing wigs. Nothing about racist, apartheid Israel. All advertisements are directed at Christians, especially during the Christmas season. It is them, criticising US. AGAIN.

This is not a western lead/dominated quest for reason. It's just another way for the filthy Khazars to get in their daily two minutes of hate.

[Vindex]

The atheist movement is jew run at at the top, just as xainity is jewish. Eitherway the jews win getting the goyium to fight over two ends of a jewish construction, xainity and atheism.

Christianity, because it is not only a lie, but also a stupid one at that, leads to atheism. True atheism is belief only in the material world with removal of all spiritual/occult knowledge. This knowledge is then kept in the hands of the Jews so they have total control and they themselves as a collective whole, especially at the top become “God.” The bible with the fictitious Jewish nazarene and all the fictitious Jewish patriarchs and heroes is a very powerful subliminal tool in priming suseptible Gentiles into accepting Jewish masters.

The Jews want it gone because it has pretty much done its job by removing all occult knowledge, which is their power, and they wish to insitute communism. The majority of Gentiles now are without spiritual knowledge and powerless.


http://www.666blacksun.com/Nazism_Satanism.html

[Faceless]

No mention of the Talmud and its racist/genocidal/sexually depraved/fecal obsessed tendencies. Nothing about Jewish women shaving their heads and wearing wigs. Nothing about racist, apartheid Israel.
None of the above exist, they are antisemmic baseless propaganda. Why should they be mentioned.

[Basil Fawlty]

Why should they be mentioned.The truth should always be mentioned.

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

A much better bus ad from Christians:

http://godhatesfags.com/photos/busads/20081113_busad5.jpg

[harjit]

The atheist movement is an anti-Christian/European movement shrouded under the guise of "reason."

It seeks not to discredit the Jewish religion, and to a lesser extent Muslims (although Daniel Dennet does focus on them). The focus of the vitriol, ridicule and aggression is the Christian religion. I read Dawkins and most of Hitchen's book and they are mostly a take-down of Christianity. Some lip service from Hitchens regarding the Old Testament and the tradition of rabbis sucking the foreskin off of circumcised babies' cocks, but that was about it.

No mention of the Talmud and its racist/genocidal/sexually depraved/fecal obsessed tendencies. Nothing about Jewish women shaving their heads and wearing wigs. Nothing about racist, apartheid Israel. All advertisements are directed at Christians, especially during the Christmas season. It is them, criticising US. AGAIN.

This is not a western lead/dominated quest for reason. It's just another way for the filthy Khazars to get in their daily two minutes of hate.
Atheists go after Christianity because it so thoroughly dominates Western culture. If one is 100% convinced that faith in God is bunk (not my own position, BTW) they would naturally be concerned about it forming the foundations of the society they belong to.

And naturally their interest in Islam and Judaism is going to be secondary. Should they also be debunking Jainism and Shintoism while they're at it?

[Faceless]

The truth should always be mentioned.
"The nature of things is to hide their own nature"
Heraclitus

[Steinbrink]

The atheist movement is jew run at at the top, just as xainity is jewish. Eitherway the jews win getting the goyium to fight over two ends of a jewish construction, xainity and atheism.

Christianity, because it is not only a lie, but also a stupid one at that, leads to atheism. True atheism is belief only in the material world with removal of all spiritual/occult knowledge. This knowledge is then kept in the hands of the Jews so they have total control and they themselves as a collective whole, especially at the top become “God.” The bible with the fictitious Jewish nazarene and all the fictitious Jewish patriarchs and heroes is a very powerful subliminal tool in priming suseptible Gentiles into accepting Jewish masters.

The Jews want it gone because it has pretty much done its job by removing all occult knowledge, which is their power, and they wish to insitute communism. The majority of Gentiles now are without spiritual knowledge and powerless.


http://www.666blacksun.com/Nazism_Satanism.html

I doubt the bible believers on this forum will accept this, but this is correct.

The agenda of Talmudic judaism is one where jews are elevated to the status of their God, in the form of Israel, whilst reducing the rest of the world to a communist mass devoid of any true spirituality. Basically an atheistically mob.

Christianity was merely a stepping stone.

....and so from the position of the jew, it's a redundant Ideo.

[Don Diego Vega]

The atheist movement is jew run at at the top, just as xainity is jewish. Eitherway the jews win getting the goyium to fight over two ends of a jewish construction, xainity and atheism.

Christianity, because it is not only a lie, but also a stupid one at that, leads to atheism. True atheism is belief only in the material world with removal of all spiritual/occult knowledge. This knowledge is then kept in the hands of the Jews so they have total control and they themselves as a collective whole, especially at the top become “God.” The bible with the fictitious Jewish nazarene and all the fictitious Jewish patriarchs and heroes is a very powerful subliminal tool in priming suseptible Gentiles into accepting Jewish masters.

The Jews want it gone because it has pretty much done its job by removing all occult knowledge, which is their power, and they wish to insitute communism. The majority of Gentiles now are without spiritual knowledge and powerless.



Yours is a defeatest view, come back to Jesus! Believe! The Jew conspiracy, which you are partially correct about, is slowly being exposed by the power of Jesus and the truth. An example being the Maydoff ponzi scheme, even the controlled press couldn't hide this plot.
And Jesus is not a fabrication of a satanic Zionist plot, he was with us and he will return.

'You gotta believe!', Tug McGraw, 1973. And you must also...

[Basil Fawlty]

HeraclitusBut you don't do a very good job of it, do you?

btw, bad translation of phusei kruptesthai philei you have to distort that too - nature loves to conceal itself - is better.

[Steinbrink]

Yours is a defeatest view, come back to Jesus! Believe! ......

'You gotta believe!', Tug McGraw, 1973. And you must also...


'I Believe.......'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEOQqnHMSMc

[Vindex]

Yes not a "Satanic" plot, but yes a Jewish one:

Who benefits from a religion where salvation is of the Jews?

Apparently you do somehow.

Yours is a defeatest view, come back to Jesus! Believe! The Jew conspiracy, which you are partially correct about, is slowly being exposed by the power of Jesus and the truth. An example being the Maydoff ponzi scheme, even the controlled press couldn't hide this plot.
And Jesus is not a fabrication of a satanic Zionist plot, he was with us and he will return.

'You gotta believe!', Tug McGraw, 1973. And you must also...

[Don Diego Vega]

'I Believe.......'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEOQqnHMSMc


Ha, the 1970's, the height of counter culture and self destructing ideology. 'Sleuth' by Shaffer was great and I am reminded again, by wiki, that Shaffer was a ....Jew.

[Steinbrink]

Ha, the 1970's, the height of counter culture and self destructing ideology. 'Sleuth' by Shaffer was great and I am reminded again, by wiki, that Shaffer was a ....Jew.

so ?

The one thing I give the jews is that they are not brainwashed tools for some other vermin.

[harjit]

The one thing I give the jews is that they are not brainwashed tools for some other vermin.
They probably are.

Of course you and I are way too low on the intellectual totem pole to guess who is pulling those strings, or even the fact that someone is doing so. The Jewish equivalent of WNs probably have an inkling of it, and are discussing it on their racisty boards.

[Don Diego Vega]

Yes not a "Satanic" plot, but yes a Jewish one:

Who benefits from a religion where salvation is of the Jews?

Apparently you do somehow.


Yes it started in Palestine with a Jewish sect but then it left the Jewish tradition in the dust. The superiority of Christian thought, philosophy and tradition has been self evident over the course of time.

[Steinbrink]

Yes it started in Palestine with a Jewish sect but then it left the Jewish tradition in the dust. The superiority of Christian thought, philosophy and tradition[/B] has been self evident over the course of time.


what, when Paul (another jew) took over in a management capacity ?

[Flavia]

Yes it started in Palestine with a Jewish sect but then it left the Jewish tradition in the dust. The superiority of Christian thought, philosophy and tradition has been self evident over the course of time.



I dont want to hijack but this is something I've been wanting to talk about. You are so right.

When I first read Nietzsche's "Beyond Good and Evil" I was a bit depressed at the fact that we had been "conquered" by this desert slave morality eons ago, and essentially the fight was over. I did not like that my religion was birthed from the Jews.

But the more I think about it, the more I disagree. I now see Christianity as the greatest triumph of all. I see it as a testament to the goodness of the European soul. It is the triumph of universalism, love, beauty, forgiveness, acceptance, non-judgement, modesty, peace and art over a vile, genocidal, ethnocentric, hateful, sexually depraved, infanticidal, guruistic, mean spirited, usurious religion.

It is the greatest case of alchemy I have ever seen. We literally turned shit into gold.

[Don Diego Vega]

Well said and thank you Flavia.

[Basil Fawlty]

I dont want to hijack but this is something I've been wanting to talk about. You are so right.

When I first read Nietzsche's "Beyond Good and Evil" I was a bit depressed at the fact that we had been "conquered" by this desert slave morality eons ago, and essentially the fight was over. I did not like that my religion was birthed from the Jews.

But the more I think about it, the more I disagree. I now see Christianity as the greatest triumph of all. I see it as a testament to the goodness of the European soul. It is the triumph of universalism, love, beauty, forgiveness, acceptance, non-judgement, modesty, peace and art over a vile, genocidal, ethnocentric, hateful, sexually depraved, infanticidal, guruistic, mean spirited, usurious religion.

It is the greatest case of alchemy I have ever seen. We literally turned shit into gold.This has got to be the best post I've ever seen on this topic. :applause

[harjit]

But the more I think about it, the more I disagree. I now see Christianity as the greatest triumph of all. I see it as a testament to the goodness of the European soul. It is the triumph of universalism, love, beauty, forgiveness, acceptance, non-judgement, modesty, peace and art over a vile, genocidal, ethnocentric, hateful, sexually depraved, infanticidal, guruistic, mean spirited, usurious religion.
And these are values you subscribe to? *snicker*

[Flavia]

And these are values you subscribe to? *snicker*

Yes. Self defense does not conflict with my Christian values.

Thank you Basil and Rock.

[Vindex]

Hmmmm........nope. Salvation is still of the Jews as the Messiah of jesusdom states. He came only for the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

No big deal the guy never existed anyway either did Saul or any of them.

Yes it started in Palestine with a Jewish sect but then it left the Jewish tradition in the dust..

[Starr]

You realize Jews are supposed to believe in God too?


Plenty of them are militant athiests and they hate christianity with a passion you do not see for other religions. They desire the removal of the religion from any place of reverence in society and have worked towards that goal for a long time. More religious jews, whatever their feelings on Christianity might be (and those feelings are also not good), don't seem to be anywhere near as bad with this.

[Don Diego Vega]

Plenty of them are militant athiests and they hate christianity with a passion you do not see for other religions. They desire the removal of the religion from any place of reverence in society and have worked towards that goal for a long time. More religious jews, whatever their feelings on Christianity might be (and those feelings are also not good), don't seem to be anywhere near as bad with this.

Just see Alan Dershowitz's work. He's another one who can't die soon enough! To meet his maker...:)

[Steinbrink]

But the more I think about it, the more I disagree. I now see Christianity as the greatest triumph of all. I see it as a testament to the goodness of the European soul. It is the triumph of universalism, love, beauty, forgiveness, acceptance, non-judgement, modesty, peace and art over a vile, genocidal, ethnocentric, hateful, sexually depraved, infanticidal, guruistic, mean spirited, usurious religion.

It is the greatest case of alchemy I have ever seen. We literally turned shit into gold.

If that's true, then why is today's christian world south of the Med ?

[Flavia]

If that's true, then why is today's christian world south of the Med ?

Cultural invaders. Hence, this thread.

Further, Christianity blossomed in Europe. This is what I am talking about. The current state of affairs is irrelevant.

[Steinbrink]

Cultural invaders. Hence, this thread.



What utter tosh.

The invading third worlders are not picking Christianity up in Europe. They are bringing it with them. The third world was converted to christianity well before the advent of the modern multiculti experiment.

"First comes the trader, then the missionary, then the red soldier."


Further, Christianity blossomed in Europe. This is what I am talking about. The current state of affairs is irrelevant.

Nothing blossoms under Christianity. It's a political creed disguised as something theistical. A composite mind tool. The day we get rid of conforming people into the archetypal do-gooder straightjacket, is the day people will start to act more Natural.

[Flavia]

What utter tosh.

The invading third worlders are not picking Christianity up in Europe. They are bringing it with them. The third world was converted to christianity well before the advent of the modern multiculti experiment.



Poor uneducated immigrants are not the creators of culture. It's top down- media, academia, publishing, etc. Powerless fruit-pickers and welfare queens are not the creators of popular culture.

once again...

IRRELEVANT!!!!
http://venomfangx.net/images/hughs.jpg

[Faceless]

Who benefits from a religion where salvation is of the Jews?


Gentiles, as it seems.

[Faceless]

Plenty of them are militant athiests
Plenty is how many?
one per hundred ? one per two hundred?
No more.
You know your wrong.

[Faceless]

We literally turned shit into gold.
You mean , Jews turned shit into gold.
Well,
We usually does, yet do not think that Christianity was our greatest masterpiece, actually it was a superficial, immature creation , and its popularity among the commons , is just an evidence to its low quality.

You should see the good stuff...

[Steinbrink]

Poor uneducated immigrants are not the creators of culture. It's top down- media, academia, publishing, etc. Powerless fruit-pickers and welfare queens are not the creators of popular culture.



No, I never said that.

I said that the history of Christianity in the third world is a result of the European colonial period, and it's from this position that the muds are coming to Europe.

In other words, your average African migrant is already a christian before he reaches Europe.

He's not becoming a christian when he hits Spain.

which brings me back to my original argument........


But the more I think about it, the more I disagree. I now see Christianity as the greatest triumph of all. I see it as a testament to the goodness of the European soul. It is the triumph of universalism, love, beauty, forgiveness, acceptance, non-judgement, modesty, peace and art over a vile, genocidal, ethnocentric, hateful, sexually depraved, infanticidal, guruistic, mean spirited, usurious religion.

It is the greatest case of alchemy I have ever seen. We literally turned shit into gold.
If that's true, then why is today's christian world south of the Med ?

meaning, if it's so European, as you state, then why are millions of third worlders turning up carrying Bibles ?

The answer lies in the fact that christianity has nothing to do with the European.

It's a multiculti ideo, first and last.

[Flavia]

meaning, if it's so European, as you state, then why are millions of third worlders turning up carrying Bibles ?

The answer lies in the fact that christianity has nothing to do with the European.

It's a multiculti ideo, first and last.

Hence why I called it universalistic.

Muds use toilets and televisions too, what's your point?

For the record, I don't like Christianity used for the advocating of multi-culti bs anymore than you do. Doesn't mean it's not without its merits.

Once again though, I believe you are missing the point. The point was that the Judiac religion is a mean, vile creation, and out of it rose something beautiful. The testament to the European soul is that they turned something ugly into something beautiful. Sort of like Jews and modern art, but in reverse.

[LordHawHaw]

You mean , Jews turned shit into gold.
Well,
We usually does, yet do not think that Christianity was our greatest masterpiece, actually it was a superficial, immature creation , and its popularity among the commons , is just an evidence to its low quality.

You should see the good stuff...

Wrong. jews turn everything they touch into shit. If it's base, vile, disturbing etc, you can bet that there is a jew behind it. Your ancestors were desert goat fuckers, you vile filthy yid.

Martin Luther: “The jew is plague, pestilence, pure misfortune."

[Steinbrink]

Hence why I called it universalistic.

Exactly.

It's egalitarian, all things to all men.

There's nothing European about it.


Muds use toilets and televisions too, what's your point?

For the record, I don't like Christianity used for the advocating of multi-culti bs anymore than you do. Doesn't mean it's not without its merits.

That's what it was invented for.

It's communism v1.


Once again though, I believe you are missing the point. The point was that the Judiac religion is a mean, vile creation, and out of it rose something beautiful. The testament to the European soul is that they turned something ugly into something beautiful. Sort of like Jews and modern art, but in reverse.
I'm not missing the point.

Christianity has contributed nothing in it's miserable history....except Pacifism for the masses.

It's main purpose was to turn the noble warrior into sandal wearing universalistic do-gooder.

A perfect world for the jew.

[Flavia]

Exactly.

It's egalitarian, all things to all men.

There's nothing European about it.


That's what it was invented for.

It's communism v1.


I'm not missing the point.

Christianity has contributed nothing in it's miserable history....except Pacifism for the masses.

It's main purpose was to turn the noble warrior into sandal wearing universalistic do-gooder.

A perfect world for the jew.

So you're a Nietzsche fan?

[Omniel]

They turned shit into more palatable shit.

[Basil Fawlty]

No, Flavia got it right the first time.

[Errigal]

So you're a Nietzsche fan?

http://antiterra.blogsport.eu/files/2010/08/5544_1a9e_500.jpg

[Omniel]

No, Flavia got it right the first time.
Unlike a product of sane inquiry you consider a theory that validates your beliefs 'right first time'. Christianity is guaranteed 100% gold? This appears to be more like brainwashing than intelligent thought.

Lies are shit, conceptually speaking. A pleasing lie is still shit.

[Basil Fawlty]

Yet Flavia still got it right first time round.

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

The answer lies in the fact that christianity has nothing to do with the European.

Possibly the biggest piece of evidence that Europeans are a superior people is that Europeans all realized that Christianity is the true religion. Europeans were smart enough and had it in their hearts to recognize Jesus Christ as their savior and put away their pride and false gods.

[Omniel]

Yet Flavia still got it right first time round.
Wrong, you believe she got it right.

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

Wrong, you believe she got it right.

No, that was a great post.

Anyhow, what does it matter what a Jew believes? Of course you Christ-killers don't get it. When Christ was resurrected, he told the apostles to spread the word to all nations. However, the word that the Jews got was the the apostles simply stole the body and there was no resurrection. God duped you. Why? He is sick of you and your antics. He'll put extra obstacles in your paths, so that you can't find your way to salvation.

[Steinbrink]

So you're a Nietzsche fan?


not exactly, although I do agree with his depiction of christianity as a slave morality wth it's dogmatic absolutism.

[Steinbrink]

Unlike a product of sane inquiry you consider a theory that validates your beliefs 'right first time'. Christianity is guaranteed 100% gold? This appears to be more like brainwashing than intelligent thought.

Lies are shit, conceptually speaking. A pleasing lie is still shit.

The trouble with people like Basil is that he hasn't got the mind to think it through for himself.

Hence he'll just stick with the off-the-shelf option.

[Omniel]

No, that was a great post.
And Alice in Wonderland is a great story.

Anyhow, what does it matter what a Jew believes? Of course you Christ-killers don't get it. When Christ was resurrected, he told the apostles to spread the word to all nations. However, the word that the Jews got was the the apostles simply stole the body and there was no resurrection. God duped you. Why? He is sick of you and your antics. He'll put extra obstacles in your paths, so that you can't find your way to salvation.
I can see you now, prancing around a church speaking in tongues and waving rattlesnakes about blathering on about your God. Which you fully believe in because of what? You sound terribly certain of yourself, where did that come from?

"He is sick of your antics". Riight, He was cool with ethnocentric Hebrew mass-murder in the OT and He's suddenly sick of it now. Gimme a break.

[Basil Fawlty]

Wrong, you believe she got it right.You believe she got it wrong.

[Basil Fawlty]

The trouble with people like Basil is that he hasn't got the mind to think it through for himself.The views of idiots like you are of no account. You don't even know you're arse from your elbow.

[Omniel]

You believe she got it wrong.
No, as I've stated I believe she's likely wrong - you're the one using absolutes. Still, it never ceases to amaze me that someone with your intellect can lower himself to this.

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

I can see you now, prancing around a church blathering in tongues and waving rattlesnakes about blathering on about your God. Which you fully believe in because of what? You sound terribly certain of yourself, where did that come from?

Bah. You militant atheists always want proof. It's the most arrogant thing ever.

"He is sick of your antics". Riight, He was cool with ethnocentric Hebrew mass-murder in the OT and He's suddenly sick of it now. Gimme a break.

That's exactly right. You were God's special people, but you went all wrong. Jews are smart and talented people, but it makes you think you can do whatever you want. You never learn. After the holoco$t, did any of you repent for your wicked ways? Nope. That's why there will be another one coming soon which will be much worse. Yay.

[Steinbrink]

The views of idiots like you are of no account. You don't even know you're arse from your elbow.

O'h enlightened one, please teach me what you have deduced from your Bible.

[Omniel]

Bah. You militant atheists always want proof. It's the most arrogant thing ever.
The arrogance in my view is asserting your opinion without feeling the need to offer supporting evidence. "The most arrogant thing ever." That's a serious point, why so?

That's exactly right. You were God's special people, but you went all wrong. Jews are smart and talented people, but it makes you think you can do whatever you want. You never learn. After the holoco$t, did any of you repent for your wicked ways? Nope. That's why there will be another one coming soon which will be much worse. Yay.
"That's exactly right."? So your God was okay with murdering every Egyptian first-born child a few thousand years ago and now he's going to draw the line. LOL, get a grip. The bible reads like propaganda drafted by individuals who grasp the vulnerability of lesser-minded humans to threats from an all-powerful ghost from above. It's not even a common factor in human communal/tribal clashes, it's almost ubiquitous.

The high priests of the Holocaust are social manipulators, no doubt - it's part of the human condition, for any communal belief or religion. You think that's the first time it's happened?

Yet for some reason you believe that a middle-eastern religious leader had it right.

[Steinbrink]

The arrogance in my view is asserting your opinion without feeling the need to offer supporting evidence. "The most arrogant thing ever." That's a serious point, why so?


Quote:
That's exactly right. You were God's special people, but you went all wrong. Jews are smart and talented people, but it makes you think you can do whatever you want. You never learn. After the holoco$t, did any of you repent for your wicked ways? Nope. That's why there will be another one coming soon which will be much worse. Yay.

"That's exactly right."? So your God was okay with murdering every Egyptian first-born child a few thousand years ago and now he's going to draw the line. LOL, get a grip. The bible reads like propaganda drafted by individuals who grasp the vulnerability of lesser-minded humans to threats from an all-powerful ghost from above. It's not even a common factor in human communal/tribal clashes, it's almost ubiquitous.

The high priests of the Holocaust are social manipulators, no doubt - it's part of the human condition, for any communal belief or religion. You think that's the first time it's happened?

Yet for some reason you believe that a middle-eastern religious leader had it right.

Apart from the philsophical emptiness of christian 'theology' you might want to take a look at the contradictions in their hymn sheet.......

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

The arrogance in my view is asserting your opinion without feeling the need to offer supporting evidence. "The most arrogant thing ever." That's a serious point, why so?

How much faith would it take if God was giving you proof? You think he's going to say, "Let's see who obeys me... Ok, guys, those who have faith and obedience to me shall enter my kingdom. Those who don't shall burn in the undying fires of Hell for all eternity. By the way, here is irrefutable proof that I exist for all you science freaks." Obviously if that was the case, everyone would be jumping over eachother, trying to serve God. I don't think that would be fun for Him. He wants to laugh at all of you dupes while you burn.

I think it was Dawkins who said that if he came face to face with God, he would say, "You didn't give enough proof." LOL He's doomed.

"That's exactly right."? So your God was okay with murdering every Egyptian first-born child a few thousand years ago and now he's going to draw the line. LOL, get a grip. The bible reads like propaganda drafted by individuals who grasp the vulnerability of lesser-minded humans to threats from an all-powerful ghost from above. It's not even a common factor in human communal/tribal clashes, it's almost ubiquitous.

God can destroy everyone he wants to. He's God. If you can't grasp the power of the Bible, that's on you.

The high priests of the Holocaust are social manipulators, no doubt - it's part of the human condition, for any communal belief or religion. You think that's the first time it's happened?

Aren't Jews the ones who always go on about the uniqueness of the holoco$t? I don't consider it the first and certainly it won't be the last.

Yet for some reason you believe that a middle-eastern religious leader had it right.

That's right.

[Omniel]

How much faith would it take if God was giving you proof? You think he's going to say, "Let's see who obeys me... Ok, guys, those who have faith and obedience to me shall enter my kingdom. Those who don't shall burn in the undying fires of Hell for all eternity.
You're saying that those who don't agree will burn in a supernatural realm forever and you think that's a legitimate argument?

By the way, here is irrefutable proof that I exist for all you science freaks." Obviously if that was the case, everyone would be jumping over eachother, trying to serve God. I don't think that would be fun for Him. He wants to laugh at all of you dupes while you burn.
This is a fucking joke of a proof: "I don't think that would be fun for him.", "He wants to laugh at all of you."

[Basil Fawlty]

O'h enlightened one, please teach me what you have deduced from your Bible.My Bible? I don't have a Bible. Anyway, even if I did, you are ineducable.

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

You're saying that those who don't agree will burn in a supernatural realm forever and you think that's a legitimate argument?


This is a fucking joke of a proof: "I don't think that would be fun for him.", "He wants to laugh at all of you."

I'm not providing proof. I'm saying that it's silly to demand proof. Why would God give you proof when He loves those who have faith? It wouldn't make any sense. If there was any proof to be had for you, it would be in your heart. I'm not trying to convert you. Just letting you know.

[Basil Fawlty]

No, as I've stated I believe she's likely wrong We're starting to make progress because earlier you were pretty certain she was wrong, now it is only "likely". How is she "likely" wrong?

[Steinbrink]

My Bible? I don't have a Bible. Anyway, even if I did, you are ineducable.

Don't bother, i've read it and it's ridiculous garbage.

I especially laughed when I came across the story of how man and the animals were created...........

"And God said, ‘Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind.’ And it was so. God made the wild animals of the earth of every kind, and the cattle of every kind, and everything that creeps upon the ground of every kind. And God saw that it was good.

Then God said, ‘Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.’ So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. [Genesis 1:24-27 (NRSV)]

versus....

… when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet sprung up — for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no one to till the ground; but a stream would rise from the earth, and water the whole face of the ground — then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being…

Then the Lord God said, ‘It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper as his partner.’ So out of the ground the Lord God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever man called each living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every animal of the field; but for the man there was not found a helper as his partner. [Genesis 2:5-7, 18-20 (NRSV)]"

.....and while you swallow that contradiction, think about where christainity got it's Logos idea from.

[Omniel]

I'm not providing proof. I'm saying that it's silly to demand proof. Why would God give you proof when He loves those who have faith? It wouldn't make any sense. If there was any proof to be had for you, it would be in your heart. I'm not trying to convert you. Just letting you know.
"God won't give proof because he only loves the faithful". I don't see any point in explaining to you why that is ludicrous any more than I would do so for a believer in Scientology. Good for you if you are that rationally disabled that you find your above statement satisfactory, ignorance is bliss.

[Omniel]

We're starting to make progress because earlier you were pretty certain she was wrong, now it is only "likely". How is she "likely" wrong?
I have said such statements are probably wrong and only you have claimed an absolute agreement. A lie is a lie, not "shit into gold", but shit that looks like a lie, transformed into a lie that looks like gold. Whether it is actually a lie or not is a matter of inquiry and analysis, not faith. Faith is cultural wishful thinking.

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

I don't see any point in explaining to you why that is ludicrous any more than I would do so for a believer in Scientology. Good for you if you are that rationally disabled that you find your above statement satisfactory, ignorance is bliss.

I love it when atheists talk like this. You are right, of course. There wouldn't be any point explaining that to me. I already basically know what you'll say, and they'll be well-thought-out, highly rational points but all entirely false. And yes, I tossed out rationality long ago. It's worthless. In fact, it will be your demise.

[Omniel]

I love it when atheists talk like this. You are right, of course. There wouldn't be any point explaining that to me. I already basically know what you'll say, and they'll be well-thought-out, highly rational points but all entirely false. And yes, I tossed out rationality long ago. It's worthless. In fact, it will be your demise.
Fair enough, as I said - if you've "tossed out rationality years ago" then there's no value in anybody debating this with you, it's a waste of bandwidth.

[Basil Fawlty]

I have said such statements are probably wrong and only you have claimed an absolute agreement.No, you made some rather puerile comments which implied a haughty certainty.
A lie is a lie, not "shit into gold", but shit that looks like a lie, transformed into a lie that looks like gold.So now you have to prove it is a lie too.
Whether it is actually a lie or not is a matter of inquiry and analysis, not faith. Faith is cultural wishful thinking.You have faith that you have a body but no justification for this faith, don't you think you should moderate your tone of assured and superior knowing?

[Basil Fawlty]

Don't bother, i've read it and it's ridiculous garbage.Of course it would seem that way to you, but as I said you are an idiot so your views are of no account.

[Starr]

Christianity has contributed nothing in it's miserable history....except Pacifism for the masses.

It's main purpose was to turn the noble warrior into sandal wearing universalistic do-gooder.

A perfect world for the jew.


It didn't quite work out that way until very recent times with the onset of cultural marxism, which demonizes christianity and seeks its destruction. I will ask again why is there such an intense level of hate from the worst kind of people if it is so good for their interests. I have asked this question a million times and I have seen others ask it and I have yet to recieve a satisfactory answer. I am more than open to hearing it.

Also are we really to assume here that something created by jews for solely destructive purposes would have struck something so deep in the European soul as to become such a fundemental and long standing part of the cultures? It seems to me that people have taken the basic tenets of the religion and turned it into something reflective and suitable for their particular cultures.

[Omniel]

No, you made some rather puerile comments which implied a haughty certainty.
"Implied a haughty certainty." Not certain though, eh? Because I am not entirely certain. Read New Dawner's contributions and I'm sure you're not entirely certain of them either.
So now you have to prove it is a lie too.
You have faith that you have a body but no justification for this faith, don't you think you should moderate your tone of assured and superior knowing?
No you are the one speaking with absolute certainty:

"Yet Flavia still got it right first time round."

"No, Flavia got it right the first time."

I don't have a dog in this race Basil, this is after all an anonymous board. But it's intriguing to me how you can miss such an obvious hypocrisy on your part.

It is quite obvious that you are the one assuming "superior knowing". How can you view those quotes and yet make accusations to others? Give it a go, explain it please - I'm genuinely curious as to how you can maintain a rational high ground whilst blurting out such comments.

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

Fair enough, as I said - if you've "tossed out rationality years ago" then there's no value in anybody debating this with you, it's a waste of bandwidth.

You're basically right, there really is hardly a point. LOL What would be the point in debating the existence of God with an atheist? The atheist only wants scientific proof, and that's missing the point entirely.

[Omniel]

You're basically right, there really is hardly a point. LOL What would be the point in debating the existence of God with an atheist? The atheist only wants scientific proof, and that's missing the point entirely.
Psychological influence (brainwashing, suggestion ect) can make a person believe anything and throughout history there have been people who spend their lives studying how to do so. An appealing thing about boards like this is they are frequented by people who question the status quo ideals and make their own minds up. They should, by now, understand the propaganda/manipulation process and be wary of it.

I've commented before that there are prominent atheists who denigrate the deliberately irrational believers as intellectually lazy, narcissistic idiots, but I disagree, I just pity them. Reality is what it is, regardless of what one wishes was so.

[Basil Fawlty]

"Implied a haughty certainty." Not certain though, eh? Because I am not entirely certain. Read New Dawner's contributions and I'm sure you're not entirely certain of them either.You're back-peddling.

Your very first contribution to this issue was a categorical assertion:

"They turned shit into more palatable shit."

I then responded with a categorical assertion of my own:

"No, Flavia got it right the first time."

Am I to understand that you are the only one who is allowed to make categorical assertions?
I don't have a dog in this race Basil, this is after all an anonymous board. But it's intriguing to me how you can miss such an obvious hypocrisy on your part.:rolleyes:

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

Psychological influence (brainwashing, suggestion ect) can make a person believe anything and throughout history there have been people who spend their lives studying how to do so. An appealing thing about boards like this is they are frequented by people who question the status quo ideals and make their own minds up. They should, by now, understand the propaganda/manipulation process and be wary of it.

So who is manipulating me? Who brainwashed me?

[Omniel]

Am I to understand that you are the only one who is allowed to make categorical assertions?
:rolleyes:
No, and I'll concede that I did so in my first comment - I should have simply phrased it as "In my opinion, they turned something that was probably shit into shit that looks like gold". That was what I was thinking but I phrased it inadequately.

As I commented in the thread, I'm not entirely certain that the subject is a pile of deceptive crap, but it appears that way to me. You've yet to express any doubt regarding your absolute position however - you made it twice so I can reasonably assume you're 100% on this.

[Omniel]

So who is manipulating me? Who brainwashed me?
Who is brainwashing the Muslims?

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

Who is brainwashing the Muslims?

Yes, the USA is just like a Christian version of a Muslim nation. Brilliant observation.

[Omniel]

Yes, the USA is just like a Christian version of a Muslim nation. Brilliant observation.
No, but what's your point?

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

No, but what's your point?

You are falling back on, 'you must be brainwashed. Someone is manipulating you. You'd think you could see through the propaganda' etc.. So I'm asking who you think brainwashed me. I think it's more likely that you've been brainwashed. The modern garbage can of the West is completely godless. Atheism has become the rule of the day. You are the one following along with the rabble. The propaganda is telling everyone that God does not exist, and you don't have to obey Him.

[Józef Piłsudski]

Psychological influence (brainwashing, suggestion ect) can make a person believe anything and throughout history there have been people who spend their lives studying how to do so.
Any sincere Christian has his reasons for his faith. Often those reasons are hard to explain or express but that doesn't necessarily mean that they can be reduced merely to psychological influences. The problem that the believer faces when explaining his faith to a non-believer is expressed by Plato's cave. Your worldview is one that seems to exclude the idea of Grace, but for Christians Grace is such a concrete fact that they would be betraying themselves if they turned their back on it - it would be as if the Christian is returning to his former life in the cave.

An appealing thing about boards like this is they are frequented by people who question the status quo ideals and make their own minds up.
The Christians on this board are very much questioning the status quo, we don't live in an age when traditional Christian doctrine is treated very seriously or is even popular. In fact if anything the new atheists seem to be the 'new thing', from my point of view it is the traditional Christian who is questioning the status quo of our secular and increasingly irreligious society. In fact, most of the Christians here are either a traditionalist or conservative of some sort and many of us are concerned for the status quo not only of society but of our own denominations.

[Omniel]

You are falling back on, 'you must be brainwashed. Someone is manipulating you. You'd think you could see through the propaganda' etc.. So I'm asking who you think brainwashed me. I think it's more likely that you've been brainwashed. The modern garbage can of the West is completely godless. Atheism has become the rule of the day. You are the one following along with the herd.
I think it's more likely that you've been brainwashed, given the long tradition of tribal propaganda/narcissistic social control. It seems that when their ideas are analysed, religious believers appear to have been indoctrinated with ideas that simply have no correlation with the real world, they are conceptual artefacts that have no empirical reality outside of a few books that someone in a position of authority claims are truth.

I questioned my beliefs as a young man. I didn't openly accept what my parents raised me to believe and spent time visiting other places of faith and familiarising myself with their doctrine. There have been many hundreds of thousands of people claiming with absolute certaintly that their insight into godhead is truth and their leaders have benefited greatly from it. That alone should cause you to raise your guard - and that's apart from the psychological gratification such people take in the process of control and the narcissism of spiritual authority.

That is entirely aside from the increasingly powerful scientific position, which is doing an excellent job at explaining phenomena that were formally considered matters of the soul. Experiences such as ecstasy or rage can be triggered via neurological manipulation or emotional response can be pinpointed to specific parts of the brain.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you should consider the rational evidence that favours an entirely physical existence in favour of a religious one. It's your business, mine is to truly understand the truth during the time I am alive, not to indulge myself in pleasant fantasies.

[Omniel]

Your worldview is one that seems to exclude the idea of Grace, but for Christians Grace is such a concrete fact that they would be betraying themselves if they turned their back on it - it would be as if the Christian is returning to his former life in the cave.
Can you explain what is so concrete about the 'fact' of Grace and how this validates the Christian perspective?

[Man of Ash]

I think it's more likely that you've been brainwashed, given the long tradition of tribal propaganda/narcissistic social control. It seems that when their ideas are analysed, religious believers appear to have been indoctrinated with ideas that simply have no correlation with the real world, they are conceptual artefacts that have no empirical reality outside of a few books that someone in a position of authority claims are truth.

I questioned my beliefs as a young man. I didn't openly accept what my parents raised me to believe and spent time visiting other places of faith and familiarising myself with their doctrine. There have been many hundreds of thousands of people claiming with absolute certaintly that their insight into godhead is truth and their leaders have benefited greatly from it. That alone should cause you to raise your guard - and that's apart from the psychological gratification such people take in the process of control and the narcissism of spiritual authority.

That is entirely aside from the increasingly powerful scientific position, which is doing an excellent job at explaining phenomenon that were formally considered matters of the soul. Experiences such as ecstasy or rage can be triggered via neurological manipulation or emotional response can be pinpointed to specific parts of the brain.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you should consider the rational evidence that favours an entirely physical existence in favour of a religious one. It's your business, mine is to truly understand the truth during the time I am alive, not to indulge myself in pleasant fantasies.
You're still avoiding the question: who brainwashed him, or me, or any of the other posters here who came to accept a traditional, conservative faith on their own, as adults, and in spite of a culture that militates against it?

[Józef Piłsudski]

Can you explain what is so concrete about the 'fact' of Grace and how this validates the Christian perspective?
The experience of Grace is as real and concrete as any other experience. God has made Himself known in my life, what else am I do?

[Omniel]

The experience of Grace is as real and concrete as any other experience. God has made Himself known in my life, what else am I do?
Can you give an example?

[Basil Fawlty]

No, and I'll concede that I did so in my first comment - I should have simply phrased it as "In my opinion, they turned something that was probably shit into shit that looks like gold". That was what I was thinking but I phrased it inadequately.Well, you will appreciate that we are not mind readers and can only go on what appears on the screen.
As I commented in the thread, I'm not entirely certain that the subject is a pile of deceptive crap, but it appears that way to me. You've yet to express any doubt regarding your absolute position however - you made it twice so I can reasonably assume you're 100% on this.If you go back to my original response to Flavia, you would not need to ask that question.

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

I questioned my beliefs as a young man. I didn't openly accept what my parents raised me to believe and spent time visiting other places of faith and familiarising myself with their doctrine.

I spent years questioning everything before the truth hit me. I still have books from all sorts of different religions and philosophies in my library, and I still think it's interesting to read about all the false religions.

There have been many hundreds of thousands of people claiming with absolute certaintly that their insight into godhead is truth and their leaders have benefited greatly from it. That alone should cause you to raise your guard - and that's apart from the psychological gratification such people take in the process of control and the narcissism of spiritual authority.

So? They are wrong. Their religions are false. There are also hundreds of millions of people who call themselves Christians who I think are full of crap. They are wolves in sheeps clothing and secret atheists, if not just lazy dupes.

That is entirely aside from the increasingly powerful scientific position, which is doing an excellent job at explaining phenomenon that were formally considered matters of the soul. Experiences such as ecstasy or rage can be triggered via neurological manipulation or emotional response can be pinpointed to specific parts of the brain.

You are delusional if you think that your science is disproving God. Who made your brain? Who designed all of that neurological wonder you love so much? You think that you can pinpoint everything to atoms and figure that atoms are responsible, not God? You are fooling yourself. All you're doing is studying God's creation. You're not disproving a single thing.

I also don't subscribe to any notions that human beings are prisoners of our genetics, and that our behavior is simply controlled by chemical reactions. Even science is disproving this nonsense. And if you can't control yourself because your genes suck and have bad chemical reactions in your brain, it's because you're cursed, and you're fitted for destruction.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you should consider the rational evidence that favours an entirely physical existence in favour of a religious one. It's your business, mine is to truly understand the truth during the time I am alive, not to indulge myself in pleasant fantasies.

I've considered it long ago. If I were to reconsider it now, I'd have to seriously lie to myself.

My personal experience aside, I find the idea of an entirely physical existence to be completely ridiculous. Pure folly. Quite honestly, I have a difficult time imagining how so many people could reach that conclusion. Atheism is the most insane religion ever known. It's a delusion and a curse from God.

[Józef Piłsudski]

Can you give an example?
I refer you again to Plato's cave. How am I to describe it to someone who has themselves never experienced it? It would be like explaining love to a creature who knows nothing of it.

[Omniel]

You're still avoiding the question: who brainwashed him, or me, or any of the other posters here who came to accept a traditional, conservative faith on their own, as adults, and in spite of a culture that militates against it?
If you happen to be raised in a Christian family you will more than likely be a Christian adult and swear blind that your beliefs are true. Likewise if you are Jew, Muslim or Sikh. A legitimate process of inquiry involves evaluating the so-called facts about the reality around you and either absorbing them as potential or discarding them. Every other fact about reality requires a process of rational enquiry and is sustainable in the face of rational critique. Not so Scientology and not so Christianity, not so Judaism or Astrology for that matter.

It is that which should be an important priority to anybody who wishes to understand the truth. Raise a child to believe in the reality of the powers of Tarot for example, and they will believe it until and if they develop the intellectual capacity and inclination to rationally question it. Otherwise they will be caught in what most people believe to be a load of cobblers.

[Omniel]

I refer you again to Plato's cave. How am I to describe it to someone who has themselves never experienced it? It would be like explaining love to a creature who knows nothing of it.
Explain it to the others on the board who you think could grasp the concept then. A simple description or account will do fine.

[Man of Ash]

If you happen to be raised in a Christian family you will more than likely be a Christain adult and swear blind that your beliefs are true. Likewise if you are Jew, Muslim or Sikh. A legitimate process of inquiry involves evaluating the so-called facts about the reality around you and either absorbing them as potential or discarding them. Every other fact about reality requires a process of rational enquiry and is sustainable in the face of rational critique. Not so Scientology and not so Christianity, not so Judaism or Astrology for that matter.

It is that which should be of concern to anybody who wishes to understand the truth. Raise a child to believe in the reality of the powers of Tarot for example, and they will believe it until and if they develop the intellectual capacity to rationally question it. Otherwise they will be caught in what most people believe to be a load of cobblers.
No, you are still avoiding the question of people who come to faith but were not raised in it. Who brainwashed them?

[Omniel]

You are delusional if you think that your science is disproving God. Who made your brain? Who designed all of that neurological wonder you love so much? You think that you can pinpoint everything to atoms and figure that atoms are responsible, not God? You are fooling yourself. All you're doing is studying God's creation. You're not disproving a single thing.
No, unlike the religious believers I think the source for our existence cannot be pinpointed yet. As for the question of design, do you find it compelling that a complex brain indicates a designer rather than the pressures of environmental selection? Why do you think that, if not because you were told it is so?

I also don't subscribe to any notions that human beings are prisoners of our genetics, and that our behavior is simply controlled by chemical reactions. Even science is disproving this nonsense. If you're referring to the claim that humans 'free-will' is a matter of physicality, how is science disproving that?

My personal experience aside, I find the idea of an entirely physical existence to be completely ridiculous. Pure folly. Quite honestly, I have a difficult time imagining how so many people could reach that conclusion. Atheism is the most insane religion ever known. It's a delusion and a curse from God.
It's insane, why? I don't mean militant atheism which claims there is definitely no God, I'm referring to the sceptical position which requires persuasive proof that God exists. Where's the insanity in that?

[Omniel]

No, you are still avoiding the question of people who come to faith but were not raised in it. Who brainwashed them?
Religious groups are famously effective at brainwashing vulnerable individuals. Name any cult you like and you will see that most of the members are victims of brainwashing. It's so prevalent that there are people who specialise in the subject as a career.

[Józef Piłsudski]

Explain it to the others on the board who you think could grasp the concept then. A simple description or account will do fine.
It will be of no use, at most you will only see the physical reality surrounding it.

[Basil Fawlty]

Religious groups are famously effective at brainwashing vulnerable individuals. Name any cult you like and you will see that most of the members are victims of brainwashing. It's so prevalent that there are people who specialise in the subject as a career.Who brainwashed Anthony Flew?

[Man of Ash]

Religious groups are famously effective at brainwashing vulnerable individuals. Name any cult you like and you will see that most of the members are victims of brainwashing. It's so prevalent that there are people who specialise in the subject as a career.
You are still avoiding the question. Who brainwashed us?

[Omniel]

You are still avoiding the question. Who brainwashed us?
Are you serious?

[Man of Ash]

Are you serious?
Yes. Who brainwashed me?

[Omniel]

Who brainwashed Anthony Flew?
Nobody can say on a personal level what triggered his conversion. The death of a close relative? A close shave that caused him to realise his own mortality or hope for something better? A dissatisfaction with the apparent lack of justice in the world?

He'd certainly have encountered religious dogma and for whatever reason decided to resign his rational faculties and accept 'truths' repeatedly and routinely stated, within chambers designed for indoctrination without rational discussion. That's about all one can say about him without knowing the guy personally.

[Vindex]

Also are we really to assume here that something created by jews for solely destructive purposes would have struck something so deep in the European soul as to become such a fundemental and long standing part of the cultures? It seems to me that people have taken the basic tenets of the religion and turned it into something reflective and suitable for their particular cultures.



Yes, because they created xainity with enough of the Pagan Template to use our racial psyche against us, to push it on us. It's purpose is served, our race is on the level of low consciousness most removed from acessing the part of the psyche of the powers of the soul, the jews have climbed to the top and our original spiritual leadership was killed off or subverted awhile ago.

Now that our race is locked into a soley materialist paradigm Communism is the next step. There is nothing spiritual about xianity it's a distraction. Show me the legions of our race with advanced spiritual abilities? Infact most xians don't even believe it possible as that is how well xianity has done it's job most of our race have no knowledge of their own souls and how to empower them, even if they still know they have one.


The following excerpt was taken from "Nature's Eternal Religion" by Ben Klassen

http://www.666blacksun.com/Xianity_communism.html

Note* Although this article was written for a white audience, Jewish communism affects all Gentiles [non-jews] regardless of race, and this is definitely worth a read. Christianity is a preparation for communism, its doctrines are identical with communist philosophy, and there is nothing spiritual about it. All occult knowledge and power that would enable Gentiles to fight back through spiritual warfare [what the Jews have been using against us for centuries] has been systematically removed. After being forcibly removed with the Inquisition, this power has been in the hands of the top Jewish rabbis to throw curses, create unimaginable wealth and power, and to use at will against Gentiles. In other words, as the "YHVH" aka "Jehova" is in truth the Jewish people, they become "God."
Communism is another Jewish brotherhood scam that fools Gentiles into thinking it is for equality, peace, and better living. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is a Jewish program of genocide, mass-murder, and slavery for Gentiles, regardless of color.
Quote from the Jewish Talmud: Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L:
"Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night."



Christianity and Communism: Jewish Twins from "Nature's Eternal Religion" by Ben Klassen

To hear the Kosher Konservatives tell it, a fierce, intensive battle is raging today between the evil forces of communism and the sacred forces of Christianity. We are led to believe that it is an all out battle between good and evil. We are told that these two forces are the very essence of two poles of opposition — in complete and diametrical conflict. It is a sham battle. The fact is they are both degenerate products of the collective Jewish mind, designed to do one and the same thing — to destroy the White Race. If we take a closer look at these two evil forces that have bedeviled and tormented the minds of the White Race for all these years, we find that they are not on opposite sides at all. We find that they are both on the side of international Jewry, doing the job they were designed to do, namely: confuse and confound the White Man's intelligence so that he himself will help the Jew in destroying the White Race.

In comparing the two we find that they are strikingly similar, and not opposites. In fact, there are so many similarities in the two programs and in the philosophy of these two creeds that the hand of the same author can easily be detected. That author is the International Jewish network. They and they alone wrote both the creed of Christianity and the creed of communism. Both communism and Christianity preach against materialism. Communism designates those productive and creative forces of our society to which we owe in such large part the benefits of a productive White civilization, as "bourgeois." It then lashes out with unparalleled fury at the bourgeois and tells us over and over again that they must be destroyed. Instead of giving credit where credit is due, it slanders and vilifies these constructive and productive elements, namely the bourgeois or the capitalists, as the ultimate in evil. Christianity tells us basically the same thing. It tells us that it will be more difficult for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to heaven. It tells us that we should "sell all thou hast and give it to the poor," an insidious piece of advice that, if followed, would make us all a pack of roving bums and beggars. It would most surely cause the breakdown of our society. Christianity further tells us "lay not up treasures on earth, but lay up treasures in heaven." Throughout, the implication is clear. Don't accumulate unto yourself any of the good things in life. If, through hard work, you've already managed to accumulate some wealth, get rid of it, give it away, give it to the poor, above all, give it to the Church, they'll take it, with relish. The net result of this fantastically bad advice, of course, is that it will more easily pass into the hands of the Jews, who do not subscribe to such foolishness. They hope to make fools of us, knowing very well the old saying "A fool and his money are soon parted," is only too true.

The other side of the coin is that the leaders of both Christianity and communism themselves are fantastically materialistic. When we look at the Catholic Church on down through the ages, we find that whereas they were extracting the last mite from the poor widow, the church itself was gathering up and hoarding gold, silver and precious gems in unbelievable quantities. Not only was it taking in and gathering all the gold, silver and precious stones that it could, but it acquired huge amounts of real estate, and the Catholic Church today is undoubtedly the most fantastically wealthy institution on the face of the earth. Even through the Dark Ages when poverty was widespread, mostly because of Christianity itself, we find these huge and fabulously rich cathedrals, built in the midst of poverty, with gold encrusted altars and apses and vaults and columns and walls. The leadership of the Church caused to be built huge and great Basilicas, Cathedrals, Abbeys, Baptisteries, Mausoleums, Convents, and Churches. Practically all of these were so lavish and so huge in comparison with the meager surroundings of the times, that they flamboyantly stood out as the main repository of all the material wealth — gold, silver and architectural lavishness — of both their era and their geographical location. The church never has bothered to explain why it was so necessary to have such lavish wealth on display to the worshipping faithful, who were told time and again that it was evil to "lay up treasures." Unto this day, churches are built to be flamboyant, garish and bizarre. Money seems to be no object.

The Vatican, that citadel of "spiritual" leadership, which also preaches, "lay not up treasures on earth," does not practice what it preaches. On the contrary, what it practices is indeed the height of hypocrisy, and the antithesis of spirituality. It goes all out for laying up treasures on earth. It has amassed unto itself a portfolio of 5.6 billion dollars in stocks alone, not to mention all of its real estate, art treasures and other valuables. It enjoys an annual income of 1.5 billion dollars, much of it undoubtedly collected from the "widow's last mite," as well as its vast holdings. Next Back Home The United States religious establishment as a whole is valued at 102 billion dollars. In 1969, of the 17.6 billion dollars United States individuals contributed to charity, 45 percent, or 7.9 billion dollars was earmarked for religious purposes. Pretty materialistic for a religion that "shuns" earthly treasures and preaches "my kingdom is not of this world."
Likewise, the communist bosses in Russia, practically all of which are Jews, have accumulated unto themselves all the riches of the countryside. While the communist slave laborer is toiling away twelve hours a day and then comes home to a dingy, dirty, filthy, crowded little apartment shared with other families, his Jewish bosses have opulent palaces spread all over the countryside. They drive the best of cars, chauffeur driven, of course, and eat the best of foods. Not only that, but they have the best of planes at their disposal to fly wherever they see fit to govern their slave laborers. These Jewish communist bosses usually also have at their disposal imported clothes and tailors and a galaxy of servants. When they need a rest from running their slave empire, they have private villas on the Black Sea or other choice vacation spots at their beck and call. And so it goes in the Proletarian Worker's Paradise.

Let us pass on to the next similarity. Both communism and Christianity make extensive use of the weapons of terror, both psychological and real. Undoubtedly the most ghoulish and vicious concept ever contrived by the depraved and collective mind of Jewry is the concept of hell. Can you think of anything more horrible than placing millions of people in confinement in a superheated torture chamber and then burning them forever and ever without even the mitigating mercy of allowing them to die? With this piece of "Good News," and "Joyful Tidings," Christianity set out to conquer the minds of its superstitious and unreasoning victims. The fact that such a torture chamber was non-existent did not at all detract from the fact that it was a real threat to those who were made to believe that it was real. To a child, for instance, if you tell him that the Boogieman is going to get him, and he innocently believes you, then the threat is just as real as if a Boogieman actually existed. And so it is with hell. To those that have become convinced that it exists, this horrible threat is just as real as if it did exist. However, Christianity did not stop with using psychological terror alone. Those who deviated from the official church line were declared as heretics and forthwith burned at the stake. The idea of using fire in one form or another as a means of torturing their opponents seems to have obsessed these "loving" Christians' minds. According to van Braght's famous Martyr's Mirror, some 33,000 Christians were put to death by other so-called Christians by means of burning at the stake, a grizzly type of revenge. Among my ancestors alone (who were of the Mennonite faith) some 2,000 martyrs were burned at the stake by these ever-loving Christians. One outstanding feature about this burning at the stake business was that they were always White people who were being burned. Never have I ever heard of a Jew being burned at the stake for not believing precisely along specified lines of Judaism, even though they did not believe in Christ at all. Burning at the stake wasn't the only means of torture and death used by these love-dispensing Christians who were so eager lo spread their message of love.

During the Inquisition, and other times, all the beastly refinements of torture that the depraved human mind could devise were used to extort confessions and whip the unbelievers or heretics into line. The thumb-screw, water-dip, the iron corset, drawn and quartered, gouging out one's eyes with hot irons, and the rack (slowly tearing limb from body by means of stretching) were but some of the devices used by these ever-loving Christians to spread their gospel of Love. When the communists came along and used physical torture as one of their instruments of conquest, they had very little left to invent but what the Christians had already utilized before them. And this is as can be expected, since it was Jewish fiendishness that designed the means of torture for both. Nor did the Church hesitate to use wholesale warfare to batter down whole nations that did not submit to their religious dictation. In fact during the 16th, 17th and 18th century the main causes of war were religious dissentions in which one religious group sought to force their beliefs on their opposites by wholesale warfare and slaughter. The communist record of using wholesale terror, both psychological and physical, is so recent, so widespread and so well known that we need hardly review it here.

In Russia alone the Jewish communist regime used terror on a scale unknown before in the annals of history. In order to exterminate the best of the White Race in Russia, namely the White Russians, the Jews slaughtered some 20,000,000. The terror, the killings, the murders that are going on in Russia today defy the imagination of the average White Man's mind. In any case, both communism and Christianity are using, and have used, terror extensively, both psychological and physical, to subjugate their victims. Whereas the Christians excelled in psychological terror, the communists excel in physical terror. But in both cases the Jews were experts in using whatever type of terror best accomplished their ends. Both communism and Christianity have a book that presumably lays down the creed of their movement. Christianity has the Jewish bible which was written by Jews, mostly about Jews, for the purpose of uniting the Jewish race and for destroying the White Race.

The communist bible is Karl Marx's Das Kapital and the Communist Manifesto, written by Karl Marx in conjunction with Friedrich Engels, both of whom were Jews. Both of these Jewish creeds, communism and Christianity, are highly destructive, and when followed, tear down the fabric of the society that has fallen victim to them. Christianity teaches the evilness of man, that he is a no-good, unworthy sinner, that he is born in sin and that his every instinct is evil. Communism preaches that the productive, creative element of our society, namely the "bourgeois" as they call them, is rotten and evil, and must be destroyed. It can be safely said that any sound, healthy society that turned either to complete Christianity and practiced all of its principles, or any society that practiced pure communism, would soon destroy itself. Again we want to vigorously point out that contrary to what these Kosher Konservatives are always telling us, communism is by no means the same as socialism or collectivism. The latter are basic constructive elements of any healthy society, but communism is an undisguised Jewish slave-labor camp. Since I have gone into this matter in considerable detail in another chapter, we will not take further space to review this idea here. Both communism and Christianity preach the equality of man. Christianity preaches that we are all equal in the eyes of the Lord, whereas the communists preach that we all must become equal in the communist society. The latter argue that the only reason we are not equal is entirely due to environment, and this little quirk of Nature they are going to correct. By the time they get through processing us all in an equal environment, they assure us they will have leveled us all down to where we are all equal.

This will only be too true, for the White Race will be leveled down to where they are all equal to a horde of miserable slaves, whereas every Jew, on the other hand, will be a king. Not only do both communism and Christianity preach the equality of the individual, but they also preach the equality of races, another vicious lie thrown in the face of Nature. Both creeds have a very tricky dogma that is rather nebulous and confusing, not to say contradictory, in itself. They both, therefore, have set up a hierarchy that interprets what the correct dogma of the day is and everyone is to toe the line or suffer the consequences of an entrenched power structure. Christianity and communism both have had their schisms. In the case of Christianity, the followers that differed were called heretics and in the case of communism, those that stray from the official line are called deviationists. In the case of Christianity, the Great Schism, of course, was during the Reformation when the Protestant segment developed and broke away from the Catholic Church. It then proceeded to split and splinter in a thousand different directions from there on out, all to the detriment and destruction of the White Race. The first great split, of course, was when the Byzantine Empire split from the Roman or Western half.

Among the communists there were a number of schisms such as the Mensheviks and the Bolsheviks, and a number of other schisms, before the communists ever came to power. After they did come to power, there were the Stalinist communists and the Trotskyite communists, the latter being vigorously pursued and purged from the ranks. Now we presumably have the Mao wing of the communist party and for a while we had the Tito deviationists, and so on. In any case, the main idea in Christianity and communism is the same: On top of a confusing and impossible dogma sits a tight powerful hierarchy which dictates and interprets what the line of its followers must be, and terror, death and reprisal are the consequences to those who dare to think for themselves. It is not at all surprising that the archenemy of both these Jewish creeds is Adolph Hitler, because he dared to come out with a healthy, natural social structure that embodied those principles that were in harmony with the natural laws, and with the healthy instincts for the preservation of the White Race. We, therefore, find the Jewish press, the communist press, and Christianity, all in chorus, denouncing Adolph Hitler, and telling us what a terrible, terrible man he was. All perpetrate and repeat over and over again the same Jewish lies about Hitler that the Jews themselves have dreamed up and supplied to their toadying stooges. The similarities between these creeds go on and on. Both preach the destruction of the present society. They especially zero in on the destruction and downgrading of the more creative and productive elements of society as a whole. Both denounce and vilify the better elements of established society and rejoice at human failures and weaknesses, thereby claiming to prove the correctness of their communist-Christian theory.

The Jews, who are the perpetrators of communism, envision the United Nations headquarters to finally rest in Israel and in particular, in Jerusalem. Christianity too, continuously keeps talking about Zion, the New Jerusalem, and looks to Jerusalem as the Holy Land, its origin and spiritual headquarters. Both of these Jewish creeds consistently follow policies which are disastrous to the welfare of the White Race. I have already gone into considerably detail about the catastrophic effects of Christianity on the great White Roman civilization. I have also pointed out previously that the Jews in communist Russia killed off 20,000,000 of the best White Russians. However, the programs and policies of both these creeds extend much further than these two major catastrophes of history and to point out how disastrous the effects of both Christianity and communism have been upon the fortunes of the White Race would require a whole volume in itself. I believe we have scattered throughout this book a mass of such examples that it is hardly necessary to again repeat them here. Another similarity that manifests itself in both of these Jewish creeds is that both have an incurable ability to put forth a profuseness of verbiage that is extremely vague and beclouded with confusion. Not only is the verbiage profuse, but incredibly lacking in substance. This is an old Jewish trick to confuse and confound the minds of their opposition, the latter being deceived into thinking that all this vast collection of words must have some higher meaning beyond their comprehension.

To further destroy and beat back the opposition, both creeds have developed to a high state the art of hurling vicious trigger words and hate words at their opponents. The Christians developed such hate-trigger words as atheist, heathen, heretic, apostate, blasphemy, pagan, sinner and anti-Christ. The communists have developed a whole stable of similar trigger words, and some of these are Fascist, Nazi, racist, bigot, prejudice, and anti-Semitic. Without anyone really stopping to analyze what each of these words mean and why they should be considered as bad, these words have been developed to a high state of implied evil so that by just merely calling these names, you need not really debate the issues, but mercilessly strike down your opponents without resorting to any debate or reasoning whatsoever. If the similarities between Christianity and communism seem rather striking, there is a very good reason for their parallel ideology. That reason is, of course, they were both concocted by the Jewish power structure for the common objective of destroying the White Race. Unfortunately, up to this point, both their ideologies have been devastatingly effective. It is partially the purpose of this book and the Creativity Movement to confront this devastating attack on the mind of the White Race and expose these twin Jewish ideologies for what they are. Furthermore, I am firmly convinced, and it is my measured conclusion, that the Jews could never have foisted modern communism on a long suffering humanity, had they not First softened up, unhinged and confused the intellect of the White Race with the fallacious snares of Christianity. It is therefore the further objective of Creativity to help straighten out the befuddled thinking of the White Race to where they then can, and will, expunge both of these twin Jewish scourges from the face of this planet.

[Omniel]

Yes. Who brainwashed me?
I've no idea.

[Man of Ash]

I've no idea.
So your claim has no foundation.

[Basil Fawlty]

Nobody can say on a personal level what triggered his conversion.Anthony Flew can, he even wrote a book about it.
The death of a close relative? A close shave that caused him to realise his own mortality or hope for something better? A dissatisfaction with the apparent lack of justice in the world?None of the above.
He'd certainly have encountered religious dogma and for whatever reason decided to resign his rational faculties and accept 'truths' repeatedly and routinely stated, within chambers designed for indoctrination without rational discussion. That's about all one can say about him without knowing the guy personally.Do you even know who he is? This whole post is hilarious!

[Man of Ash]

Do you even know who he is? This whole post is hilarious!
I particularly liked "chambers designed for indoctrination without rational discussion"; as though he were dragged into some weird masonic temple to have philosophical theism beaten into him! What bizarre language for someone who prides himself on 'rationality'.

[Omniel]

Anthony Flew can, he even wrote a book about.
None of the above.
Do you even know who he is? This whole post is hilarious!
Why don't you just explain why it matters, rather than exclaim how funny it is that I'm not familiar with him?

[banjo_billy]

You realize Jews are supposed to believe in God too?

Jews only believe in their own god, the only god that exists, the one that chose them to be his special favorites. This demon God of the Jews hates all of Mankind and has ordered the Jews to do everything they can to destroy Mankind and make themselves kings and masters of those few people who survive destruction.

According to the rabbis, non-Jews do not have souls and because they do not have souls, just like animals they do not have a god to whom they can pray. The rabbis teach that only Jews have souls. And because the Jews believe that they, alone, are human beings higher than the angels, then causing the death and destruction of Mankind is pleasing to their own special god and profitable to the Jews. The more dead Gentiles the Jews can cause, the more of the Gentiles' gold they can put in their own pockets.

Jews are formost among the atheists because they see it as their duty to destroy Mankind in whatever way they can. And by taking away Mankind's hope and by destroying Mankind's trust and belief in God, the Jews are more easily able to destroy Mankind. The Jews want to be the only ones who believe in a God because under the Jewsih belief system, those who do not believe, die, their souls are destroyed or they go to hell. So, the Jews try to promote atheism in the People so as to take away all hope and to send them all to hell.

This is what the Jews believe. This is why the Jews are at the forefront of atheism. Obviously, all Jews are devils.

[Basil Fawlty]

Why don't you just explain why it matters, rather than exclaim how funny it is that I'm not familiar with him?Why didn't you just pop his name into a search engine instead of seeking out the banana skin?

[Omniel]

I particularly liked "chambers designed for indoctrination without rational discussion"; as though he were dragged into some weird masonic temple to have philosophical theism beaten into him! What bizarre language for someone who prides himself on 'rationality'.
Whether you call it a church or a synagogue, a place of worship consists of people who repeatedly and incessantly repeat statements and commentaries derived from documents that claim absolutely that God exists. The purpose of these places is to affirm faith, not to rationally question it. So how is my description bizarre?

[Omniel]

Why didn't you just pop his name into a search engine instead of seeking out the banana skin?
I had a look of course, but failed to see what distinguishes him from any other convert. Rather than beat about the bush, just state what your point is.

[Basil Fawlty]

I had a look of course, but failed to see what distinguishes him from any other convert. Rather than beat about the bush, just state what your point is.I asked you who brainwashed Anthony Flew.

[Omniel]

I asked you who brainwashed Anthony Flew.
And you think Google will provide a definitive answer?

[Man of Ash]

Whether you call it a church or a synagogue, a place of worship consists of people who repeatedly and incessantly repeat statements and commentaries derived from documents that claim absolutely that God exists. The purpose of these places is to affirm faith, not to rationally question it. So how is my description bizarre?
That was a description of places of worship? It's hilarious. Anyway, what have they got to do with Antony Flew?

[Basil Fawlty]

And you think Google will provide a definitive answer?I asked you who brainwashed Anthony Flew. You seem to believe that anyone who abandons atheism has been brainwashed.

[Omniel]

It will be of no use, at most you will only see the physical reality surrounding it.
It requires you to type on your keyboard for a few seconds. Why not just give this real life of grace you're referring to, regardless of whether I understand it? Do you even have one?

[Omniel]

I asked you who brainwashed Anthony Flew. You seem to believe that anyone who abandons atheism has been brainwashed.
That was a description of places of worship? It's hilarious. Anyway, what have they got to do with Antony Flew?
As I've already stated, who truly knows what his personal circumstances were that led to his state of delusion - what do you both find so compelling about Antony Flew?

[Basil Fawlty]

As I've already stated, who knows what his personal circumstances were - what do you both find so compelling about Antony Flew?You seem to believe that anyone who abandons atheism has been brainwashed. If you bothered even looking up who Anthony Flew is, you would not be saying such silly things. are you not even curious to find out who he is?

You don't seem to have a very inquiring mind, which is very strange coming from someone who claims to be searching for truth.

[Omniel]

You seem to believe that anyone who abandons atheism has been brainwashed. If you bothered even looking up who Anthony Flew is, you would not be saying such silly things. are you not even curious to find out who he is?

You don't seem to have a very inquiring mind, which is very strange coming from someone who claims to be searching for truth.
I don't think I'm the only one reading this and wondering what your point is about Anthony Flew. You obviously have something in mind or you would not have given him as an example, so for the love of God just get to the point and explain why you've mentioned him.

I'm sure that few of us have the time or inclination to meticulously research every individual you care to name in your posts, but at the very least you should summarise what the point is of mentioning him.

How does he support your position? As a point of principle you should state what you are driving at here.

[Basil Fawlty]

I don't think I'm the only one reading this and wondering what your point is about Anthony Flew. You obviously have something in mind or you would not have given him as an example, so for the love of God just get to the point and explain why you've mentioned him. Why invoke something you dismiss as nonsense?
Look, you seem to be of the belief that anyone who abandons atheism has been brainwashed. I asked you who brainwashed Anthony Flew. If you even bothered to look him up, you would realise the enormous significance of this question. Instead, you carry on seeking out that banana skin to step over and over again.
I'm sure that few of us have the time or inclination to meticulously research every individual you care to name in your posts, but at the very least you should summarise what the point is of mentioning him. Excuses, excuses, the search for truth is not a little hobby, it is a full-time life-long affair.

How does he support your position? As a point of principle you should at least state what you are driving at here.My position? My position is that people who make sweeping categorical clams such as you have been doing should at least make some effort to justify them, even a tiny bit.

[Man of Ash]

As I've already stated, who truly knows what his personal circumstances were that led to his state of delusion - what do you both find so compelling about Antony Flew?
You made a general point, and we're looking for specific examples. Who brainwashed me, Flying Drumhead, Fidelis, Basil or Antony Flew? Can you back up your statement at all?

Can you even say who you imagine brainwashed one of us? How we fell into their wicked hands, what techniques they used, etc.? I'm asking mostly for the sake of comic value, of course.

Flew, by the way, was a respected atheist philosopher who changed his mind about certain arguments and as a result became a philosophical theist. So who brainwashed him?

[Omniel]

Why invoke something you dismiss as nonsense?
Look, you seem to be of the belief that anyone who abandons atheism has been brainwashed. I asked you who brainwashed Anthony Flew.
No, I said they are likely the subject of brainwashing. On a person-by-person basis I cannot comment but as a broad phenomenon, the process suggests indoctrination.

If you even bothered to look him up, you would realise the enormous significance of this question. Instead, you carry on seeking out that banana skin to step over and over again.
Excuses, excuses, the search for truth is not a little hobby, it is a full-time life-long affair.
Right, this is the end of my discussion of Anthony Flew. This seems to be a running trend by the religious side tonight - refer to an example but refuse to articulate why it matters. That is not civil discussion it is arrogant posturing.

There is a wealth of data on any prominent individual, you obviously consider his circumstances to be an example that counters my point yet you won't explain why. You are familiar with the man, you clearly have a point in mind - yet you will not state it and would prefer to repeatedly ask me to research him.

Forget discussing that; whilst I'm interested in truth I can't be arsed discussing it with people who won't even offer their version of it.

[Józef Piłsudski]

It requires you to type on your keyboard for a few seconds. Why not just give this real life of grace you're referring to, regardless of whether I understand it? Do you even have one?
Really, there's no need to put my sincerity in doubt. To borrow Basil's wording:
Why invoke something you dismiss as nonsense?

You see a religious conversion as a kind of brainwashing. Why then would my own experience matter? Hell, if you can shew away Antony Flew, then I have no hope of contributing anything further to the discussion with my own humble experience.

I know my experience can be 'rationalized', I've rationalized it myself several times in my life. Still I cannot explain it away no matter how hard I try because I know that what I experienced was genuine Grace.

Originally all I pointed out was that the experience of conversion is very real and unavoidable fact for the person who undergoes it. In fact it would irrational for me to deny it.

[Omniel]

You made a general point, and we're looking for specific examples. Who brainwashed me, Flying Drumhead, Fidelis, Basil or Antony Flew? Can you back up your statement at all?
It depends on the personal circumstances - but I haven't said it is certain that religious belief is a delusion, just that it is likely.

I think I mentioned the potential mechanisms earlier in the thread: if you're raised to a religious belief then the 'truth' of the matter will be repeatedly inculcated into you by your own parents and the community that you grow up in.

If you converted then the trigger could have been a social experience (such as a marriage to a believer), a personal vulnerability which was exploited by a religious group or simply a frustration at the lack of meaning in life. It is a desirable belief that provides comfort. The next step is to immerse yourself in repeated affirmation that a 'sacred' document is true, not to analyse or critique its validity, simply to accept it as truth.

[Omniel]

You see a religious conversion as kind of brainwashing. Why then would my own experience matter?

Originally all I pointed out was that the experience of conversion is very real and unavoidable fact for the person who undergoes it. In fact it would irrational for me to deny it and to look for an excuse to explain it away. And I have tried to explain it away but even in the depths of despair and doubt it still haunts me.
Because you are attacking my position by claiming your example of grace as a relevant counter-point. If you can't or won't describe it then why even mention it?

[Man of Ash]

If you converted then the trigger could have been a social experience (such as a marriage to a believer), a personal vulnerability which was exploited by a religious group or simply a frustration at the lack of meaning in life. It is a desirable belief that provides comfort. The next step is to immerse yourself in repeated affirmation that a 'sacred' document is true, not to analyse or critique its validity, simply to accept it as truth.
So I brainwashed myself? Is that now your claim? You seem to have backed down a lot.

[Basil Fawlty]

No, I said they are likely the subject of brainwashing. I know, that's why I said you seem to be of the belief etc.
On a person-by-person basis I cannot comment but as a broad phenomenon, the process suggests indoctrination.What process?
The process of changing your mind based on the belief that X is a better explanation than Y? Where's the brainwashing?
Right, this is the end of my discussion of Anthony Flew. This seems to be a running trend by the religious side tonight - refer to an example but refuse to articulate why it matters. That is not civil discussion it is arrogant posturing. You're the one doing the posturing. I'm just letting some of the air out before you explode, you're way over-inflated.
There is a wealth of data on any prominent individual, you obviously consider his circumstances to be an example that counters my point yet you won't explain why. You are familiar with the man, you clearly have a point in mind - yet you will not state it and would prefer to repeatedly ask me to research him. You're the one who needs to support his claims about brainwashing, not me.
Forget discussing that; whilst I'm interested in truth I can't be arsed discussing it with people who won't even offer their version of it.There are no "versions of truth", there can only be one truth, by definition. Perhaps we may never know it, but searching for it is not a part-time affair for the half-hearted.

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

So I brainwashed myself? Is that now your claim? You seem to have backed down a lot.

Haha. That seems to be the case. Now you're just manipulating yourself apparently. A victim of your own propaganda. You've hauled yourself off to your personal indoctrination chambers and forbade yourself from any discussion.

[Józef Piłsudski]

Because you are attacking my position by claiming your example of grace as a relevant counter-point. If you can't or won't describe it then why even mention it?
My point was that if Grace is truly experienced then it would be irrational to deny it. In other words, the Christian is acting rationally if he decides to accept God's Grace.

The particulars of my own conversion are irrelevant to my point.

[Omniel]

So I brainwashed myself? Is that now your claim? You seem to have backed down a lot.
No that is not the point at all, according to my argument some people choose to disengage their rational faculties and embrace an environment which will indoctrinate them because they find the belief comforting, they want to believe. Others are told that it is the 'truth' since childhood and are subsequently completely immersed in the belief.

The point here is that the process of religious belief can be explained as voluntary or involuntary immersion into a delusion as a result of a desire to believe and enabled by a subsequent disengagement of rational inquiry.

[Omniel]

My point was that if Grace is truly experienced then it would be irrational to deny it. In other words, the Christian is acting rationally if he decides to accept God's Grace.
I grasp your point, but as I asked you before, what would be an example of a person 'truly experiencing' Grace?

[Man of Ash]

No that is not the point at all, according to my argument some people choose to disengage their rational faculties and embrace an environment which will indoctrinate them because they find the belief comforting, they want to believe. Others are told that it is the 'truth' since childhood and are subsequently completely immersed in the belief.

The point here is that the process of religious belief can be explained as voluntary or involuntary immersion into a delusion as a result of a desire to believe and enabled by a subsequent disengagement of rational inquiry.
People seek out their own indoctrination? This is really bizarre. 'Voluntary immersion into a delusion'? That's a bit different than being brainwashed, isn't it?

Apparently you think everyone who has different beliefs than you is brainwashed into a delusion! Hilarious.

Again we are faced with your basic ignorance of the subject you want to pontificate about. The journals of theology and philosophy of religion are filled with rational debate, by people whose rational faculties, I can assure you, are far better sharpened than yours. Our predominantly secular culture, on the other hand, is filled with unthinking secularists.

[Man of Ash]

I grasp your point, but as I asked you before, what would be an example of a person 'truly experiencing' Grace?
Why do you keep asking for an example of something that's not a category?

[Józef Piłsudski]

I grasp your point, but as I asked you before, what would be an example of a person 'truly experiencing' Grace?

Come now, you haven't come across a description before? There are so many examples, it's hard to choose. A personal favorite of mine is this:

http://wordbandit.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/the-ecstasy-of-st-teresa11.jpg

Sadly the true beauty of this would escape a materialist.

[Józef Piłsudski]

No that is not the point at all, according to my argument some people choose to disengage their rational faculties and embrace an environment which will indoctrinate them because they find the belief comforting, they want to believe. Others are told that it is the 'truth' since childhood and are subsequently completely immersed in the belief.

The point here is that the process of religious belief can be explained as voluntary or involuntary immersion into a delusion as a result of a desire to believe and enabled by a subsequent disengagement of rational inquiry.
This can just as easily apply to materialists. I really don't think you "grasp" my point at all.

Faith is often a burden, it has serious life changing consequences. Still some choose to deny Grace, they "disengage their rational faculties and embrace an environment which will indoctrinate them because they find the belief comforting....[etc, etc]".

[Omniel]

People seek out their own indoctrination? This is really bizarre. 'Voluntary immersion into a delusion'? That's a bit different than being brainwashed, isn't it?

Apparently you think everyone who has different beliefs than you is brainwashed into a delusion! Hilarious.

Again we are faced with your basic ignorance of the subject you want to pontificate about. The journals of theology and philosophy of religion are filled with rational debate, by people whose rational faculties, I can assure you, are far better sharpened than yours. Our predominantly secular culture, on the other hand, is filled with unthinking secularists.
It is human nature that people tend to favour the rationale that they prefer. Take the example of Scientology: The standard technique was not to advertise 'Scientology Conversion Here!' but instead to offer IQ and personality tests for free. When the person attends they may be told they have high intelligence but flaws in their personality, and presented with Scientology as the solution. If they happen to be vulnerable to this appeal, they'll then take the next step and volunteer for a process which many will agree amounts to gradual brainwashing.

The process of ironing out these flaws via intense psychological 'training courses' continues for years - and acolytes have claimed they are eventually told of the origin of human sin, which is a criminal squid-like entity called Xenu and the embedding of evil alien souls in their bodies. The person would never have believed this originally, they chose to proceed with the process - and I'm certain no believer in Scientology would ever permit you to call them brainwashed.

One can certainly 'volunteer for brainwashing'. If the benefits are desirable enough, people can abandon their critical faculties and embrace a paradigm that makes them happy, even if it involves total delusion. Nothing bizarre about it, it's human nature.

[Omniel]

This can just as easily apply to materialists. I really don't think you "grasp" my point at all.
You've posted a photo of a statue. Why not simply articulate what you think it means? Saving that, just state what a personal, real-life experience of Grace actually entails. I've taken time to explain my terms, you should do so too.

[Józef Piłsudski]

One can certainly 'volunteer for brainwashing'. If the benefits are desirable enough, people can abandon their critical faculties and embrace a paradigm that makes them happy, even if it involves total delusion. Nothing bizarre about it, it's human nature.
Indeed it is.

Now what would be really bizarre if this only applies to religious adherents as if materialists are somehow above human nature.

[Man of Ash]

It is human nature that people tend to favour the rationale that they prefer. Take the example of Scientology: The standard technique was not to advertise 'Scientology Conversion Here!' but instead to offer IQ and personality tests for free. When the person attends they may be told they have a high intelligence but flaws in their personality, and presented with Scientology as the solution. If they happen to be vulnerable to this appeal, they'll then take the next step and volunteer for a process, which many will agree amounts to gradual brainwashing.

The process of ironing out these flaws via intense psychological 'training courses' continues for years and acolytes have claimed they are told of the origin of human sin, which is a criminal squid-like entity called Xenu and the embedding of evil alien souls in their bodies. The person would never have believed this originally, they chose to proceed with the process - and I'm certain no believer in Scientology would ever permit you to call them brainwashed.

One can certainly 'volunteer for brainwashing'. If the benefits are desirable enough, people can abandon their critical faculties and embrace a paradigm that makes them happy, even if it involves total delusion. Nothing bizarre about it, it's human nature.
You mentioned cult experts earlier; which of these would group the major religions with cults like Scientology? Which major religions use techniques like these? (My parish doesn't even have a website! I'm lucky to have stumbled across it.) Again, you're pontificating about something you're ignorant of. Why don't you go to some secular university where there's a psychology of religion department. Go to a lecture on the psychology of religious conversion and try spewing this crap. Be ready to be laughed out of there.

Now, you're avoiding the question about all those philosophers and theologians who have very obviously finely functioning rational faculties. Whereas you are just a minority kid who succumbed to the overwhelming pressure of the ideological environment of modern Britain. You dropped your parents' faith and believed the default position in that case was what the BBC and the Guardian et al told you it was. You don't know anything about the philosophy behind modern materialism though; you don't know what people whose profession it is to think about these issues have to say. You don't know about the history of metaphysical materialism, the debates of the late Scholastics and the Reformers that underly the current situation. You just believe what the mandarins tell you to; what everyone in modern Britain who wants to pat themselves on the back for their cleverness believes. Just soak this stuff up and you're one of the intelligentsia - no thinking required. I think it's clear who's brainwashed here.

[Józef Piłsudski]

You've posted a photo of a statue. Why not simply articulate what you think it means? Saving that, just state what a personal, real-life experience of Grace actually entails. I've taken time to explain my terms, you should do so too.
That statue describes it better than any written account can. Grace can come in any manner as long as the end result is same; God extends a supernatural gift.

Have you studied Christianity at all? Western civilization? Art? Music? - the experience of Grace is expressed in so many ways its impossible to list them all.

Now obviously you have come across written descriptions of the experience of Grace. But to play in your game, whatever that might be, I refer you to Acts 9:1-10.

[Omniel]

That statue describes it better than any written account can. Grace can come in any manner as long as the end result is same; God extends a supernatural gift.
That comment is entirely without substance. I've had enough of this waffle.

[Omniel]

You mentioned cult experts earlier; which of these would group the major religions with cults like Scientology? Which major religions use techniques like these? (My church doesn't even have a website! I'm lucky to have stumbled across it.) Again, you're pontificating about something you're ignorant of. Why don't you go to some secular university where there's a psychology of religion department. Go to a lecture on the psychology of religious conversion and try spewing this crap. Be ready to be laughed out of there.

Now, you're avoiding the question about all those philosophers and theologians who have very obviously finely functioning rational faculties. Whereas you are just a minority kid who succumbed to the overwhelming pressure of the ideological environment of modern Britain. You dropped your parents' faith and believed the default position in that case was what the BBC and the Guardian et al told you it was. You don't know anything about the philosophy behind modern materialism though; you don't know what people whose profession it is to think about these issues have to say. You don't know about the history of metaphysical materialism, the debates of the late Scholastics and the Reformers that underly the current situation. You just believe what the mandarins tell you to; what everyone in modern Britain who wants to pat themselves on the back for their cleverness believes. Just soak this stuff up and you're one of the intelligentsia - no thinking required. I think it's clear who's brainwashed here.
It's late now but I've no problem responding to this screed and will do so tomorrow.

[Józef Piłsudski]

That comment is entirely without substance. I've had enough of this waffle.
As you were saying, some prefer blissful ignorance....

[Don Diego Vega]

Wrong. jews turn everything they touch into shit. If it's base, vile, disturbing etc, you can bet that there is a jew behind it. Your ancestors were desert goat fuckers, you vile filthy yid.

Martin Luther: “The jew is plague, pestilence, pure misfortune."

Bullseye!
As I said, we left the Jewish tradition in the dust. They have been resurrected by the power of the shekel that they have amassed over the centuries, unfortunatey by the maganiminty of the Christian/European culture.

[Faceless]

Bullseye!

BS actually, you were left behind with childish conception of god , and that is why many wiser Europeans , ends eventually as Buddhists or alike.

[Ahknaton]

I asked you who brainwashed Anthony Flew.
The Intelligent Design movement.

[Angler]

...according to my argument some people choose to disengage their rational faculties and embrace an environment which will indoctrinate them because they find the belief comforting, they want to believe. Others are told that it is the 'truth' since childhood and are subsequently completely immersed in the belief.

The point here is that the process of religious belief can be explained as voluntary or involuntary immersion into a delusion as a result of a desire to believe and enabled by a subsequent disengagement of rational inquiry.I think this is a good explanation that pertains to many if not most religious believers.

I was raised Catholic from day one but never seriously questioned my religious beliefs until I reached young adulthood. Even as a child I was somewhat philosophically-minded about a number of things, but when it came to Christianity, I basically just took it for granted. It was reality to me. But as I got older, fear became the key element underlying my reluctance to question my religious upbringing. Religions such as Christianity dangle the ultimate carrot and wield the ultimate stick. Whenever I began to doubt aspects of my faith, I was plagued with nagging worry that by entertaining such doubts I was taking intolerable risks. Even if I thought the chances of going to hell were 0.1%, that was too much for me. So rather than dispassionately evaluate religious claims and arguments, I limited the use of my intellect to finding ways to justify my beliefs.

Is "brainwashed" the right word for such a state? I'm not sure. But it seems clear to me that religious belief is fundamentally irrational, as are all beliefs that aren't based on reason and/or evidence.

When some guy tells us that aliens from another dimension are communicating with him telepathically, we don't use that as a basis for discussion about epistemology, metaphysics, etc. We simply dismiss the guy's beliefs as crazy (even though we can't prove that what he's saying is false!). Why is the standard different for religion? The only difference I can see is that religious beliefs are much more popular and standardized. If there are other differences, I don't know what they are.

[Basil Fawlty]

I think this is a good explanation that pertains to many if not most religious believers.

I was raised Catholic from day one but never seriously questioned my religious beliefs until I reached young adulthood. Even as a child I was somewhat philosophically-minded about a number of things, but when it came to Christianity, I basically just took it for granted. It was reality to me. But as I got older, fear became the key element underlying my reluctance to question my religious upbringing. Religions such as Christianity dangle the ultimate carrot and wield the ultimate stick. Whenever I began to doubt aspects of my faith, I was plagued with nagging worry that by entertaining such doubts I was taking intolerable risks. Even if I thought the chances of going to hell were 0.1%, that was too much for me. So rather than dispassionately evaluate religious claims and arguments, I limited the use of my intellect to finding ways to justify my beliefs.That's a very interesting and candid account of the background to your views. It gives me a much greater insight into why you adopt the position that you do and and I thank you for your candour. I too was brought up as a Catholic but had a very different experience of it. I never experienced the kind of anxiety or fear you mention - concerning doubt - quite the contrary. I always questioned radically and was encouraged to do so by the relevant people in the formative years of my life. I have always been plagued by doubts but have never felt fear nor guilt on account of it. I have seriously entertained every significant hypothesis I've ever come into contact with. In my younger days I was like a fellow in a clothes shop trying on every suit in the place.
Is "brainwashed" the right word for such a state? I'm not sure. But it seems clear to me that religious belief is fundamentally irrational, as are all beliefs that aren't based on reason and/or evidence.First of all, I do not accept for a moment that theism is irrational. I've never seen any argument that successfully shows this to be the case, or comes even close. On the other point, there has to be something seriously wrong with your conclusion. Some of our most fundamental beliefs are held without justification, for instance our belief that we have a body. I can't justify this belief and yet I hold it, so do you! Are we making a mistake?
When some guy tells us that aliens from another dimension are communicating with him telepathically, we don't use that as a basis for discussion about epistemology, metaphysics, etc. Of course not because his claims are irrelevant to, say, metaphysics because he's making empirical claims!
We simply dismiss the guy's beliefs as crazy (even though we can't prove that what he's saying is false!). Why is the standard different for religion?Because theism is not an empirical claim.

[Angler]

That's a very interesting and candid account of the background to your views. It gives me a much greater insight into why you adopt the position that you do and and I thank you for your candour. I too was brought up as a Catholic but had a very different experience of it. I never experienced the kind of anxiety or fear you mention - concerning doubt - quite the contrary. I always questioned radically and was encouraged to do so by the relevant people in the formative years of my life. I have always been plagued by doubts but have never felt fear nor guilt on account of it. I have seriously entertained every significant hypothesis I've ever come into contact with. In my younger days I was like a fellow in a clothes shop trying on every suit in the place.Thanks. I think it's worth sharing these experiences because I suspect others have either had similar experiences or may currently see in themselves a bit of what I've described.

First of all, I do not accept for a moment that theism is irrational. I've never seen any argument that successfully shows this to be the case, or comes even close.Ah, but I didn't say theism is irrational. Good arguments can be made that the existence of some kind of God is at least worth considering. I myself accept the necessity of some kind of Prime Mover, though I'm not prepared to draw many conclusions regarding the nature of such an entity. This is why I'm an agnostic rather than an atheist.

What I said is that religious belief is irrational. At least that's my view of any religion I've ever heard of. They all make unfounded claims and then frequently represent those claims as absolute truth. Sorry if I wasn't clear about the distinction.

On the other point, there has to be something seriously wrong with your conclusion. Some of our most fundamental beliefs are held without justification, for instance our belief that we have a body. I can't justify this belief and yet I hold it, so do you! Are we making a mistake?As I've acknowledged elsewhere, there are fundamental limits to human knowledge. I don't believe it's possible for human beings to know absolute truth at its most fundamental level. So yes, we must make certain assumptions without justification in order to think, act, and communicate in a sane manner.

Where I draw the line, however, is at the making of assumptions beyond those that are necessary in order to avoid epistemological nihilism and have a discussion about anything at all. It's one thing to have faith in the evidence of our senses, that the rules of logic always correspond to reality, etc. But why go beyond this and assume on top of those other assumptions that grace emanates from God, that Jesus is Lord, or whatever?

When some guy tells us that aliens from another dimension are communicating with him telepathically, we don't use that as a basis for discussion about epistemology, metaphysics, etc.Of course not because his claims are irrelevant to, say, metaphysics because he's making empirical claims!He's not making a claim that can be empirically tested. Is Fidelis making an empirical claim when says he can feel God's grace?

Whether the claims of the person in the above "alien" example are related to metaphysics depends, I suppose, on how you conceive of telepathy -- whether it has a physical or immaterial basis. But epistemology certainly plays a role here. Again: why do we tend to doubt his claims, and maybe even seek to put him in a straitjacket, when we can't prove that he isn't actually receiving telepathic communications from aliens? By the same token, why don't we regard with equal skepticism the claims of those who claim to have received revelations, grace, etc., from God?

Because theism is not an empirical claim.Again, note my distinction between theism and religion. Religion is very frequently associated with empirical claims.

[Steinbrink]

It didn't quite work out that way until very recent times with the onset of cultural marxism, which demonizes christianity and seeks its destruction. I will ask again why is there such an intense level of hate from the worst kind of people if it is so good for their interests. I have asked this question a million times and I have seen others ask it and I have yet to recieve a satisfactory answer. I am more than open to hearing it.

why not say - it was good for their interests.

Christianity was used as a way for the jews to be accepted by the European peoples.

In today's world, as they are amongst us, they no longer need it.



Also are we really to assume here that something created by jews for solely destructive purposes would have struck something so deep in the European soul as to become such a fundemental and long standing part of the cultures?

well, it's one or the other, they either created christainity for the benefit of the people in Europe, or for their destruction.


It seems to me that people have taken the basic tenets of the religion and turned it into something reflective and suitable for their particular cultures.
People will believe in anything if it gives them bread.

[Steinbrink]

Psychological influence (brainwashing, suggestion ect) can make a person believe anything and throughout history there have been people who spend their lives studying how to do so. .....


Spot on.

Now think about this: Christians have been brainwashed to such a extent that they have no idea that what they hold dear is NOT even Religion.

talk about spanners.

:rofl:

[guy]

I myself accept the necessity of some kind of Prime Mover...
BTW, why do you accept this?

[banjo_billy]

Originally Posted by LordHawHaw
Wrong. jews turn everything they touch into shit. If it's base, vile, disturbing etc, you can bet that there is a jew behind it. Your ancestors were desert goat fuckers, you vile filthy yid.

Martin Luther: “The jew is plague, pestilence, pure misfortune."
As The Rock said:
Bullseye!
As I said, we left the Jewish tradition in the dust. They have been resurrected by the power of the shekel that they have amassed over the centuries, unfortunatey by the maganiminty of the Christian/European culture.

But the Faceless Kike says:
BS actually, you were left behind with childish conception of god , and that is why many wiser Europeans , ends eventually as Buddhists or alike.

Jews will tell any lie to destroy the non-Jews around them. The Faceless Kike is no different than the rest of them. Here's an example of Jewish Subversion (http://www.wntube.net/play.php?vid=1262) in video.

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

Christianity was used as a way for the jews to be accepted by the European peoples.

Yeah, that makes sense. The Jews wanted to get along in Europe, so they created a religion where they presented themselves as being guilty of killing God. Good plan!

[Dan Dare]

... The point here is that the process of religious belief can be explained as voluntary or involuntary immersion into a delusion as a result of a desire to believe and enabled by a subsequent disengagement of rational inquiry.

Not simply a desire to believe, but also a need to.

[Steinbrink]

Yeah, that makes sense. The Jews wanted to get along in Europe, so they created a religion where they presented themselves as being guilty of killing God. Good plan!

well, with millions of idiots it's worked so far.

[Hartmann von Aue]

People today typically have a need not to believe because of the way they live their lives.

In the past such ways of living would have rapidly led to social dissolution. In fact we are seeing social dissolution now.

God's Judgement seems menacing, but hardly more than a soulless mechanical world of bloody and merciless evolution.

Make a video from a Marxist or materialist standpoint and things seem just as stark.

[Hartmann von Aue]

What kind of parent is better?

The one who says God loves you and you must do good for him, or the kind of mother who screams at her children about "survival of the fittest" and gives money to pro-abortion advocates calling on the phone?

[Steinbrink]

...........

It is the greatest case of alchemy I have ever seen. We literally turned shit into gold.



http://www.bnp.org.uk/sites/default/files/images/sementau.jpg

"me was dee shit in Africa, but now i'm Gold"

[Vindex]

The underlying message in the bible is Jewish Supremacy, as God is Jew, and the Messiah is a Jewish Rabbi who claims Salvation is of the Jews and all his first and early followers are Jews.

So this Yeshua character never denouces the Jews of which he is one, he claims that infact he has only come for the lost sheep of the house of Israel and to be the living son of the Jewish God Yahweh and of which salvation is only of the Jews. He just chimp's on a rival Priest sect which don't buy he is BenYahweh. Today how many xian sects are always fighting among themselves like that? Even causing religion wars in the past.

Hence why at this point the Christian Zionist movement in America is one of the most powerful in the Nation. Because xainity was always Jew worshipping Zionism, even Yesjewa is supposed to return on a White Horse and lead the world from the new Zion of Jerusalem.

Anyway this all serves also as a distraction for Gentiles from the knowledge of their spiritual Godhead of which the Jews state in the Protocols they will tear out of the Goyium mind.

well, with millions of idiots it's worked so far.

[Vindex]

http://www.666blacksun.com/Bible_Conspiracy.html

The Bible: A Jewish Conspiracy
and
Hoax on the Gentiles

The Bible is a Jewish conspiracy. Christians are deluded under a powerful spell. Christianity is nothing more than a vicious program, with the goals of:


Forcing the Gentiles to give up all occult knowledge and power so all psychic power is in the hands of select Jews for total control.


Indoctrinating the the Gentile masses into pacifism and a slave-like mentality of servitude


Encouraging the Gentiles into giving up all money and worldly goods which is funneled into the hands of the ruling Jews and their Gentile lackeys like Billy Graham


Preparing the Gentile masses for a one world communist slave state with the ruling Jews in control.


Channeling Gentile psychic energy and prayers into the "Second coming of Christ" which is in reality the Jewish Messiah as any working of the mind must have a connection.


Cutting the Gentiles off from their own Tribal Gods and Demi-Gods, whose identities have been altered and replaced with fictitious Jewish characters. Our True Creator God has been denegrated, viciously and heinously insulted and blasphemed and relegated to the enemy of humanity.
"May his name and memory be blotted out."
-The Jewish Talmud


The list is endless and it is so glaringly obvious what was done. Now, we all know the Nazarene is fictitious. The Jews themselves know it and don't believe in him as he is a lie based upon some 20+ crucified "saviors" stolen from Gentile pantheons around the world.

I have put a lot of effort and time into researching the Bible, as so many people have serious hang-ups because of intense indoctrination with Christiainty and the psychic power that has gone into it. It is obvious the Bible is a hoax and a lie.




"We shall now endeavor to answer the question which must naturally arise in the minds of all who see for the first time, the similarity in the legends of the Hebrews and those of other nations, namely: have the Hebrews copied from other nations, or, have other nations copied from the Hebrews? To answer this question we shall; first give a brief account or history of the Pentateuch and other books of the Old Testament from which we have taken legends, and show about what time they were written; and second, show that other nations were possessed of these legends long before that time, and that the Jews copied from them."
- Bible Myths And Their Parallels in Other Religions By T. W. Doane © 1882, page 92


"THERE IS NO GOD BUT MYSELF" "KNOWING THIS, WHO DARES WORSHIP THE FALSE GODS OF THE KORAN AND BIBLE?"
-SATAN
FROM THE QU'RET AL-YEZID




The Creation:
"Structurally, Genesis 1-11 presents a fascinating insight into how the Bible evolved from a collection of polytheistic myths and legends from various cultures into a mostly coherent monotheistic account of Israelite history."
- 101 Myths of the Bible by Gary Greenburg © 2000; page 3

In summary, every character in the bible was stolen form Pagan Gentile religions and replaced with a Jewish character:





Jewish monotheism was stolen from Egyptian Akhenaton


The Jewish creation was stolen from the Egyptian Creation ¹


The Jewish Yahweh's use of the word to create was stolen from the Egyptians (Jewish Yaweh replaces Ptah) ²


"Let there be Light" was stolen from the Theban Creation epic.³


The "firmament in the midst of the waters…" was stolen from the Egyptian Creation4


Adam and Eve were stolen from the Egyptian Geb and Nut 5


Eve coming from Adam's rib was stolen from the Epic of Enki and

Ninhursag: "My brother what hurts thee?
"My rib hurts me"
ANET, 41.
Ninti who's name means
"Lady of the Rib" cured Enki's rib6


Adam and Eve's punishment and loss of immortality were stolen from the Mesopotamian story of Adapa
(Jewish Yaweh replaces Sumerian Enki)7


Jewish Cain, Abel and Seth were stolen from Osiris, Set and Horus8


The conflict between Cain and Abel was stolen from Set and Osiris and as the story goes on, it is later based upon the Sumerian Dumuzi and Enkimdu 9


Jewish Samson was stolen from Heracles,



The putting out of his eyes is based on Oedipus


The pulling down of the pillars was stolen from the Egyptian tale about Re-Herakhte10
The Jewish story of Jacob and the Ladder was stolen from the Egyptian Funerary Rituals for the deceased King
"Hail to thee, O Ladder of God, Hail to thee, O Ladder of Set. Stand up O Ladder of God, Stand up O Ladder of Set, stand up O Ladder of Horus, whereon Osiris went forth into heaven.” “The Egyptian Ladder consisting of the bodies of two Egyptian deities upon which Osiris ascends into heaven, has been replaced by a ladder with several supernatural beings, angels, climbing up and down between earth and heaven."11




"THERE IS NO GOD BUT MYSELF" "KNOWING THIS, WHO DARES WORSHIP THE FALSE GODS OF THE KORAN AND BIBLE?"
-SATAN
FROM THE QU'RET AL-YEZID







Jewish Moses was stolen from several Gods and kings, depending on what stage of his life story:



Sargon (the birth and abandonment in the river, being rescued by royalty, etc)


The wanderings in the desert were based upon the Sun-God Bacchus as seen in the Hymns of Orpheus 12


The Hebrew stint of "40 years in the desert" claimed in the Jewish book of Exodus and the subsequent "40 day and 40 nights" wanderings in the desert of the Jewish Nazarene were stolen from:
"The struggle of Set and Horus in the desert lasted forty days, as commemorated in the forty days of the Egyptian Lent, during which time Set, as the power of drought and sterility, made war on Horus in the water and the buried germinating grain....These forty days have been extended into forty years, and confessedly so by the Jews."13

Jewish Joshua was stolen from the Egyptian Deities Shu and Nun.14


Jewish Deborah was stolen from the Egyptian Goddess Neith 15


Jewish Noah was stolen from Sumerian Ziusudra
The fictitious Jewish God Yaweh in the Noah story replaced the Sumerian God Enlil, aka Beelzebub


Noah's son Jewish Ham was stolen from Belus 16


Jewish Nimrod was stolen from the Egyptian Pharaoh Sesostris17


Jewish Abraham was stolen from King Hariscandra of the Hindu Sankhayana-Sutras

Jewish Isaac was stolen from King Hariscandra's son Rohita
The fictitious Jewish God Yaweh in this story replaced the Hindu God Varuna18


Jewish character Daniel was stolen from Egyptian Neferti 19


Jewish Jonah and the whale; Jonah was stolen from the Hindu character "Saktideva" found in the Somadeva Bhatta.


The "Twelve Tribes of Israel" like the Twelve Disciples of Christ are based upon the twelve signs of the Zodiac.


Jewish Lot and his wife were stolen from the Greek Orpheus and Eurydice
Jewish Yaweh replaces the Greek God Hades


Jewish Jacob and Jewish Esau were stolen from Horus and Set20


Jewish Rebekah was stolen from The Egyptian Goddess Isis21


Jewish Joseph with the eleven brothers was stolen from Egyptian Psammetichus22


Jewish story of Joseph and Potipher's wife stolen from Egyptian Anubis and Bata23


"The Ten Plagues" against Egypt were grossly exaggerated and altered and stolen from the Ipuwer Papyrus 24


The Ten commandments was stolen from The Code of Hammurabi Jewish Yaweh replaces the Sumerian Sun God Shamash aka Azazel25


Jewish David killing Philistine Goliath were stolen from Thor throwing a hammer at Hrungnir and striking him in the forehead.26


The Jewish Job was stolen from Ugaritic Keret and Jewish Yaweh replaces the God "El."


The Jewish "Job," was stolen from a story written in the Ugaritic language (Cuneiform Script), composed circa 1400 BCE by "Ilimilku The Scribe." This epic involves "Keret" and the God "El." NOT Job and Jehova. Keret's family tragedies and illness are comparable with the story of Job. In the original tale, "Satan" never even entered into the picture.
Here, Jewish Jehova replaces El27
By creating opposing Gods, one "good" and the other "evil" the Jews have been able to manipulate the world beyond belief.

"THERE IS NO GOD BUT MYSELF" "KNOWING THIS, WHO DARES WORSHIP THE FALSE GODS OF THE KORAN AND BIBLE?"
-SATAN
FROM THE QU'RET AL-YEZID







The Jewish book of Proverbs, along with the writings in the book of Ecclesiastes were stolen from the Teachings of Egyptian Ptah-Hotep.28


Many of the writings in the Jewish book of Joshua were stolen from The El Amarna Letters29
The Jewish book of Judges is comprised of material stolen from:

The Story of Aqhat
The Diary of Wen-Amon
The Gezer Almanac30

The Jewish books of Samuel and Kings contain stolen material from:
The Mari Prophecies
The Stele of Mesha
The Karatepe Inscription
The Annals of Shalmaneser III
The Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III
The Annals of Tiglath-Pileser III
The Annals of Sargon II
The Siloam Inscription
The Yavne-Yam Inscription
The Lachlish Letters
The Arad Ostraca
The Annals of Sennacherib
The Annals of Nebuchadnezzar II

More stolen material in the biblical books of Ezra and Nehemiah from:
The Cylinder of Cyrus31



Jewish Mordecai stolen from the Babylonian God Marduk32


Jewish Esther and the Jewish book of Esther was stolen from Ishtar, aka Astaroth, Astarte, Ashtar.33


The Jewish Virgin Mary "Queen of Heaven" was stolen from Astaroth


Jewish John the Baptist stolen from Anup, baptizer of Horus; both lost their heads.34


Jewish Judas was stolen from Set.35


Jewish Matthew was stolen from Thoth 36


Jewish Thomas was stolen from Tammuz 37


"Like Jesus, the Greek God Hermes was also wrapped in swaddling clothing and placed in a manger, as was Dionysus." 38



"THERE IS NO GOD BUT MYSELF" "KNOWING THIS, WHO DARES WORSHIP THE FALSE GODS OF THE KORAN AND BIBLE?"
-SATAN
FROM THE QU'RET AL-YEZID




The Gentile Gods wound up in the grimoires of blasphemy.

"No other people has ever been so conscious of ultimate primacy through supernatural intervention. This has given them cohesion and courage to persevere in the face of persecution and decimation. The conviction that every jew will one day share in his divine destiny as a member of the world's ruling race has made him proud and has enabled him to survive unassimilated among the nations of the earth."
"Included in the promised inheritance was a deliverer or messiah to bring about "the kingdom." This messiah would be either a temporal, human leader who with his armies would overthrow the enemies of Israel, or a supernatrual being who would do likewise, establishing an "everlasting" Jewish kingdom as well." "The Jewish imperialism would thus come as the awaited deliverer destroyed the enemies and gave their booty to Israel. As Larson says 'This Messiah shall bring judgement upon the Gentiles and they shall become the slaves of Judah..."
The above two paragraphs were excerpts taken from The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya S. © 1999 taken from pages 325 and 326


"THERE IS NO GOD BUT MYSELF" "KNOWING THIS, WHO DARES WORSHIP THE FALSE GODS OF THE KORAN AND BIBLE?"
-SATAN
FROM THE QU'RET AL-YEZID

The purpose of the bible was:

To give the Jewish people a history they never had


To give the Jewish people a special status as the "Chosen of God"


To enable the Jewish people to advance in their quest for world domination. The gentiles have been disarmed and spoon-fed a pacifistic anti-life philosophy with Christianity


To keep all occult, psychic and mind power under the control of the Jews and disarm the gentile populations psychically.


For the Jewish secret cabal to seize and direct as much psychic energy as possible into the coming of their "messiah" who will unite the Jews and rule the world. (This is the fictitious Christ, - the Jews themselves know Christ is fictitious- the "Temple of Solomon" and various other faces of the same theme).


Because the multitude of characters, numbers and stories were stolen and altered from gentile sources, they are strong enough in the gentile racial memory to use as a powerful psychic tool for manipulation.


"THERE IS NO GOD BUT MYSELF" "KNOWING THIS, WHO DARES WORSHIP THE FALSE GODS OF THE KORAN AND BIBLE?"
-SATAN
FROM THE QU'RET AL-YEZID









--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

REFERENCES:


¹ 101 Myths of the Bible by Gary Greenburg © 2000 pages 3-24
² Ibid, pages 11-13
³ Ibid, page 14
4 Ibid, page 17
5 Ibid, pages 43-44
6 Ibid, page 55
7Ibid, pages 56-57
8 Ibid, page 9
9 Ibid, pages 68-69
10Bible Myths And Their Parallels in Other Religions By T. W. Doane © 1882, Chapter VIII "Samson and his Exploits" pages 62-76
11page 144, 101 Myths of the Bible
12Page 51 Bible Myths And Their Parallels in Other Religions
13The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold by Acharya S. © 1999 page 244
14101 Myths of the Bible pages 254-255
15101 Myths of the Bible pages 258-62
16101 Myths of the Bible pages 103-104
17101 Myths of the Bible pages 103-104 pages 101, 102
18Bible Myths And Their Parallels in Other Religions page 39
19Old Testament Parallels - Laws and Stories from the Ancient Near East by Victor H. Matthews and Don C. Benjamin &3169; 1991 pages 235-240
20101 Myths of the Bible pages 135-137
21101 Myths of the Bible page 138
22101 Myths of the Bible page 175-179
23101 Myths of the Bible pages 180-181 and Old Testament Parallels pages 41-45
24101 Myths of the Bible page 206
25Old Testament Parallels pages 62-67
26Bible Myths And Their Parallels in Other Religions pages 90-91
27Old Testament Parallels pages 201-211
28Old Testament Parallels pages 184-188
29Old Testament Parallels pages 77-80
30Old Testament Parallels pages 85-105
31Old Testament Parallels pages 109-143
32101 Myths of the Bible page 292
33101 Myths of the Bible pages 292-293
34The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold page 177
35The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold page 171
36The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold page 171
37The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold page 172
37The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold page 191
Other References:

Popular Dictionary of Assyrian and Babylonian Terminology by F. C. Norton © 2003
The Literature of Ancient Egypt: An Anthology of Stories, Instructions, and Poetry, Edited by William Kelly Simpson © 1972
Religions of the Ancient Near East Sumero-Akkadian Religious Texts and Ugaritic Epics, Edited by Isaac Mendelsohn © 1955
The Ancient Near Eastr Volume I, An Anthology of Texts and Pictures, Edited by James Pritchard © 1958




http://www.666blacksun.com/Bible_Conspiracy.html

[Starr]

[QUOTE=Steinbrink]why not say - it was good for their interests.

Christianity was used as a way for the jews to be accepted by the European peoples.

If that was their reasoning, they failed miserably for an extremely long period of time since philosemitism among christians seems to be a recent phenomenon. And even now, how many evangelicals types truly love the jewish people? Many if not most strongly support Israel and will go on and on all day about protecting, what they falsely believe are "god's chosen" and their next thoughts are that jews are going to burn in hell for not accepting Jesus. You even hear this thought come to the surface once in a while. There was Anne Coulter who talked about jews being unperfected and Glenn Beck's comments about what the jews did to Jesus,etc.

[Steinbrink]

If that was their reasoning, they failed miserably for an extremely long period of time since philosemitism among christians seems to be a recent phenomenon.


.....but it's finally worked with oldie testament worshipping evangelical.

Hasn't it ?

The history of christianity is simply jews selling one story after another until they have enough people too dim to question anything. First the new testament to convert Rome. Onced that worked, the Old Testament.

Bingo!

Millions of proddies were suddenly named: Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and all of them believed that god has chosen the jews.....

"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. Deuternomy 7:6"


And even now, how many evangelicals types truly love the jewish people? Many if not most strongly support Israel and will go on and on all day about protecting, what they falsely believe are "god's chosen" and their next thoughts are that jews are going to burn in hell for not accepting Jesus. You even hear this thought come to the surface once in a while. There was Anne Coulter who talked about jews being unperfected and Glenn Beck's comments about what the jews did to Jesus,etc.


.......but they still believe, don't they ?

The question is where did this shite, that they 'believe', come from ?

:rolleyes:

[Steinbrink]

Hence why at this point the Christian Zionist movement in America is one of the most powerful in the Nation. Because xainity was always Jew worshipping Zionism, even Yesjewa is supposed to return on a White Horse and lead the world from the new Zion of Jerusalem.

:D

If one had a bell that rang ...'Zion'...... you'd make a mint in America.

Zion.....ching ching.

:rofl:

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

The New Testament is quite clear that Jews are no longer God's special people. In fact, God clearly hates them more than anyone now. Christian-Zionists are not really Christians. They should have noticed that God had them driven from their land for a reason: they were disobedient. That land came with a condition that they obey God. Have they repented of their wicked ways? Nope. They stole that land, and they continue to be disobedient rebels against God. That's why they will be destroyed by fire yet again very soon. It's going to be awesome.

[Steinbrink]

Flying Drumhead Court-Martial The New Testament is quite clear that Jews are no longer God's special people. In fact, God clearly hates them more than anyone now. Christian-Zionists are not really Christians. They should have noticed that God had them driven from their land for a reason: they were disobedient. That land came with a condition that they obey God. Have they repented of their wicked ways? Nope. They stole that land, and they continue to be disobedient rebels against God. That's why they will be destroyed by fire yet again very soon. It's going to be awesome.


who's going to kill them ?

I can't see the remaining xTian church doing anything, remember......

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_love/lk06_27a.jpg

Luke 6:27
'Love your enemies.'

[Steinbrink]

Why Christians Should Support Israel
The Apple of HIS Eye...
Everything Christians do should be based upon the Biblical text. Here are seven solid Bible reasons why Christians should support Israel.

Genesis 12:3 "And I will bless them that bless thee and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all nations of the earth be blessed." Point: God has promised to bless the man or nation that blesses the Chosen People. History has proven beyond reasonable doubt that the nations that have blessed the Jewish people have had the blessing of God; the nations that have cursed the Jewish people have experienced the curse of God.


St. Paul recorded in Romans 15:27 "For if the Gentiles have shared in their (the Jews) spiritual things, they are indebted to minister to them also in material things."

Christians owe a debt of eternal gratitude to the Jewish people for their contributions that gave birth to the Christian faith. Jesus Christ, a prominent Rabbi from Nazareth said, "Salvation is of the Jews!" (St. John 4:22) consider what the Jewish people have given to Christianity:

a) The Sacred Scripture
b) The Prophets
c) The Patriarchs
d) Mary, Joseph, and Jesus Christ of Nazareth
e) The Twelve Disciples
f) The Apostles

It is not possible to say, "I am a Christian" and not love the Jewish people. The Bible teaches that love is not what you say, but what you do. (1 John 3:18) "A bell is not a bell until you ring it, a song is not a song until you sing it, love is not love until you share it."


While some Christians try to deny the connection between Jesus of Nazareth and the Jews of the world, Jesus never denied his Jewishness. He was born Jewish, He was circumcised on the eighth day in keeping with Jewish tradition, He had his Bar Mitzvah on his 13th birthday, He kept the law of Moses, He wore the Prayer Shawl Moses commanded all Jewish men to wear, He died on a cross with an inscription over His head, "King of the Jews!

Jesus considered the Jewish people His family. Jesus said (Matthew 25:40) "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as you have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren (the Jewish people… Gentiles were never called His brethren), ye have done it unto me.


"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem, they shall prosper that love thee." (Psalm 122:6) the scriptural principle of prosperity is tied to blessing Israel and the city of Jerusalem.


Why did Jesus Christ go to the house of Cornelius in Capernaum and heal his servant, which was ready to die? What logic did the Jewish elders use with Jesus to convince Him to come into the house of a Gentile and perform a miracle?

The logic they used is recorded in Luke 7:5; "For He loveth our nation, and He hath built us a synagogue." The message? This Gentile deserves the blessing of God because he loves our nation and has done something practical to bless the Jewish people.


Why did God the Father select the house of Cornelius in Caesarea (Acts Chapter 10) to be the first Gentile house in Israel to receive the Gospel? The answer is given repeatedly in Acts 10.

Acts 10:2 "a devout man, (Cornelius) and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always." Who were the people to whom Cornelius gave these alms? They were the Jews.

Again is Acts 10:4 "… thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God."

Again in Acts 10:31 "… and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God."
The point is made three times in the same chapter. A godly Gentile who expressed his unconditional love for the Jewish people in a practical manner was divinely selected by heaven to be the first Gentile house to receive the Gospel and the first to receive the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

These combined Scriptures verify that PROSPERITY (Genesis 12:3 and Psalm 122:6), HEALING (Luke 7:1-5) and the OUTPOURING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT came first to Gentiles that blessed the Jewish people and the nation of Israel in a practical manner.


We support Israel because all other nations were created by an act of men, but Israel was created by an act of God! The Royal Land Grant that was given to Abraham and his seed through Isaac and Jacob with an everlasting and unconditional covenant. (Genesis 12:1-3, 13:14-18, 15:1-21, 17:4-8, 22:15-18, 26:1-5 and Psalm 89:28-37.)



John Hagee Ministries 2010
P: 1-800-854-9899 | support@jhm.org
P.O. Box 1400 San Antonio Texas 78295-1400

[Steinbrink]

https://www.jhm.org/Media/MediaManager/PlanYourRootsInIsrael_Banner_final.jpg


[/quotThe Lord declared in Isaiah 41:19-20, "I will plant in the wilderness the cedar and the acacia tree, the myrtle and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the cypress tree and the pine and the box tree together, that they may see and know, and consider and understand together, that the hand of the LORD has done this, and the Holy One of Israel has created it."

At the time that this prophecy was written, Israel had not yet become the parched and barren land it eventually became after the destruction of the Second Temple and the dispersion of the Jews who had been the faithful stewards of the land. However, the Lord knew what was coming and had already promised restoration. Only God can cause the desert to bloom. But we, the spiritual children of Abraham, can lend our support through a sustained program of tree planting in Israel.

John Hagee Ministries is participating in a project called "Plant Your Roots in Israel." This campaign has the central goal of planting one million trees in Israel to help revitalize the land!

Planting a tree is more than mere aesthetics. It is an opportunity to help:


Transform barren regions of the Negev desert into fruitful, productive land
Create jobs
Provide needed irrigation
Sustain the local economy

As you can see, planting trees is a great way to express your love and support for Israel and make a real difference in the Holy Land.

Each donation of $35 plants a tree in Israel and contributes to a unique water conservation project in the Negev desert. With each donation you will receive one 'Plant Your Roots in Israel' certificate.

You can plant as many trees as you would like! A program is also available for those of you who want to plant on a monthly basis.

God bless you as you consider purchasing trees for Israel. As you picture in the theater of your mind the beautiful landscape of Israel draped with trees, know that you have helped transform this once barren land. Know that "the hand of the Lord has done this and the Holy One of Israel has created it," but the Lord has used you to help make it all possible.

Click here for FAQs .......

https://www.jhm.org/ME2/Sites/dirmod.asp?sid=&type=forms&mod=Smart+Forms&sfid=6F4DB23E38E9408080AD6B7B0E05BE64&tier=1&SiteID=973F95B9970A4625AB045F5C8E33EF1C


ching ching.

[Basil Fawlty]

John Hagee Ministries 2010
P: 1-800-854-9899 | support@jhm.org
P.O. Box 1400 San Antonio Texas 78295-1400Why are you promoting this shite?

[Flying Drumhead Court-Martial]

who's going to kill them ?

I can't see the remaining xTian church doing anything, remember......

It doesn't need to. All Christians have to do is pray for their destruction and wait. A storm is already gathering in the Middle East. The Muslims are overthrowing the status quo, and soon they will march on Israel. Israel has stated openly that they'll try to take the world down with them, so that means all the nations of the world will be forced to join together to destroy them.

Luke 6:27
'Love your enemies.'

So? Love your enemies. Vengeance belongs to the Lord. When you treat your enemies with kindness, you're pouring hot coals on them.

[Don Diego Vega]

Why are you promoting this shite?

Humm, fine question Basil, what say you Stein-berg?

[Steinbrink]

It doesn't need to. All Christians have to do is pray for their destruction and wait. A storm is already gathering in the Middle East. The Muslims are overthrowing the status quo, and soon they will march on Israel. Israel has stated openly that they'll try to take the world down with them, so that means all the nations of the world will be forced to join together to destroy them.


what a superb analysis!

[Flavia]

It doesn't need to. All Christians have to do is pray for their destruction and wait. A storm is already gathering in the Middle East. The Muslims are overthrowing the status quo, and soon they will march on Israel. Israel has stated openly that they'll try to take the world down with them, so that means all the nations of the world will be forced to join together to destroy them.



God, I hope so.

For all my vitriol, I am scared of the Israelites. The Khazars in America have a tenuous hold on power (mostly through pejorative and preying on our penchant to feel guilty for everything) but the Israelis have a mass arsenal of nukes located in submarines. With all their spying on America, I wouldn't be surprised that they have our nuclear disarmament codes. That would be very bad news. In an all out war, just due to sheer numbers we would eventually come out on top, but the loss would be devastating. I have no doubt those filthy Jews would try to take the whole world down with them.

And that is considering America could pull away from the talons of the beast. They control our media, and much of everything else. Maybe we'd continue fighting for the Dark Side.

[banjo_billy]

God, I hope so.

For all my vitriol, I am scared of the Israelites. The Khazars in America have a tenuous hold on power (mostly through pejorative and preying on our penchant to feel guilty for everything) but the Israelis have a mass arsenal of nukes located in submarines. With all their spying on America, I wouldn't be surprised that they have our nuclear disarmament codes. That would be very bad news. In an all out war, just due to sheer numbers we would eventually come out on top, but the loss would be devastating. I have no doubt those filthy Jews would try to take the whole world down with them.

And that is considering America could pull away from the talons of the beast. They control our media, and much of everything else. Maybe we'd continue fighting for the Dark Side.

Although this data is a couple of years old, it is still valid or even more so:

Israel Controls the destiny of the USA

Israel controls all FAA and NORAD encryption codes - through RSA.
Israel controls security at all major US airports - through ICTS.
Israel has access to records of 90% of US private telephone companies - through Amdocs.
Israel has control Financial market software and post-9/11 FBI wiretapping technology - through Comverse.
Israel control the software used by all key federal governmental agencies, including the U.S. Army, the U.S. Air Force, the U.S. Naval Air Command, Congress, the Department of Energy, the Internal Revenue Service, NATO, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service and even the White House - through Ptech.
Israel now have control of the computers at the Pentagon - through CheckPoints.
Israel control Congress and the White House - through AIPAC.
The upper echelons of the Bush administration was riddled with dozens of Neocon Israeli-US dual citizens (Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Elliot Abrams, Donald Kagan, Richard Haas, Kenneth Adelman, Edward Luttwak, Robert Satloff, David Frum, David Wurmser, Steve Goldsmith, Marc Grossman, to name a few).
The head of US Homeland Security Chertoff is an Israeli citizen (his mother reportedly was the first woman Mossad agent).
The CIA is infested at virtually all levels with US-paid Israeli nationals and US-Israeli dual citizens.
This email you are reading is being scanned by Israeli companies contracted by the US government.

And Israel controls access to all US nuclear weapons.
　
The only thing that the Jews and Israelis do not control, are their very lives which are in the hands of the American People.

[Flint Steel]

Atheist adverts declaring that "there's probably no God" have been placed on 800 buses around Britain after an unprecedented fundraising campaign.

Organiser, jewess Ariane Sherine (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/06/religion-atheism) originally hoped to put the message on just a handful of London buses, as an antidote to posters put up by religious groups which they claimed were "threatening eternal damnation" to non-believers.

We should pay for a banner outside her house which reads: 'No. You're probably in the wrong country, bitch'.

[Sidekick]

WE ARE NOW LIVING in a “Holocaust Remembrance” society.

Touted as the central event of the 20th Century, high school students throughout the Western World will continue to be force-fed with Holocaust dribblings and never once hear of how Jews of the Bolshevik Cheka murdered over 70 million Orthodox Christians.

The so-called ‘extermination’ of European Jewry by Hitler’s Third Reich, (Holocaust connoisseurs have yet to provide evidence of gas chambers), has become an image of Western civilization, replacing the West’s symbol of the Resurrection of Christ with the remembrance of dead Jews.

America, time to wake the hell up, or the exact same thing will happen to us that the bolshevik jews did to the people in the USSR.

[Errigal]

Looks like Mohamed Merah is the Ned Kelly or Jesse James of the hip hop crowd in France. A fan page was set up for him on Facebook:

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/46114454mm.png

"May Allah open the gates of Paradise to him!", "1 against everyone and he fucked them all. Good my brother" "... and he still managed to wound three of them. Brave guy [heart]" etc.