Stranger Map

[Xenodamus]

I've found an interesting Europeist map in an alternate history. How realistic would it be?

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/uusieurooppa.png

[Ambrosio Spinola]

Does not make much sense to me

[Dagoth Ur]

I've found an interesting Europeist map in an alternate history. How realistic would it be?

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/uusieurooppa.png
The Finns who put the project that map reflects on together told its story pretty believably, but unfortunately all the information was in Finnish and their site's (http://www.valtakunta.eu/) been down for ages. Stalingrad's avoided and Hitler consents to evacuate Tunisia. Italy degenerates into a war of attrition that's left unresolved by the end of the war and Operation Overlord fails to establish enough of a beachhead. Stalin sues for peace in 1943, Japan surrenders in 1945, later that year the Germans put together a nuclear bomb and the Allies decide to negotiate with them.

In the aftermath of the war the Germans set up a sort of parallel European Union (Neuropa), serving as a third front in the Cold War that follows. The Ostministerium deals better with the occupied nations in the east and only limited attempts to colonize the newly acquired territory outside of the Crimea and St. Petersburg are undertaken, resulting in only small, rural German communities here and there. This can be interpreted as local resistance having made anything more than that impossible. They chronicle fascism continuing in Europe into at least the '90s.

[Jake Featherston]

I find myself wondering what "Autonomous Gaus (NSDAP civil administration" meant.

I would also like to see some clarification on the status of Sweden and Ireland (Britain's status is left unclear by the map as well, but it sounds as if they repelled a German invasion and retained their full independence).

I also think it would have been neat if they gave that large island in the northeast over to the Finns.

[Felix the Cat]

http://web.archive.org/web/20080118214840/http://www.valtakunta.eu/

Finland and Germany seem to be the only beneficiaries of this scenario

[Jake Featherston]

http://web.archive.org/web/20080118214840/http://www.valtakunta.eu/

Finland and Germany seem to be the only beneficiaries of this scenario

Yeah, I'd like to see one where a victoriously unified Italy retains Libya, and also gets, say, Tunisia, Corsica, Crete, Cyprus, and the Dardanelles. The Italians lost 600,000 men on the Eastern Front alone; there needs to be a better result for them. There also needs to be German (or joint German-Italian) occupation of Suez. And an Axis-dominated Palestine, in order to ship out the Jews (which implies an Axis dominated Sinai as well, as if that hunk of sand fucking matters). And if Suez falls, the fate of East Africa becomes open to speculation (Egyptian independence is also getting a little hard to swallow at this stage).

And why is there still a Vichyite border across France? For reference only, or does it still signify something?

And what of Svalbard?!?

[Felix the Cat]

Yeah, I'd like to see one where a victoriously unified Italy retains Libya, and also gets, say, Tunisia, Corsica, Crete, Cyprus, and the Dardanelles. The Italians lost 600,000 men on the Eastern Front alone; there needs to be a better result for them. You've mentioned that figure before, IIRC, and it was challenged. The total is much lower.

[Jake Featherston]

You've mentioned that figure before, IIRC, and it was challenged. The total is much lower.

Apparently, the Italians only lost 84,830 men on the Eastern Front (one 1/4th of those died after being taken prisoner by the Soviets).

[Dagoth Ur]

I find myself wondering what "Autonomous Gaus (NSDAP civil administration" meant.
At least nominal independence.

I would also like to see some clarification on the status of Sweden and Ireland (Britain's status is left unclear by the map as well, but it sounds as if they repelled a German invasion and retained their full independence).
Sweden and Switzerland are neutral but very economically dependent on Neuropa. Ireland's a little friendlier with Berlin than most given the question of Ulster but neutral all the same. There wasn't an invasion of Britain, only an intensification of the air war. Britain and southern Italy are members of NATO.

Finland and Germany seem to be the only beneficiaries of this scenario
The Ukraine expanded an awful lot at Russia's expense.

And an Axis-dominated Palestine, in order to ship out the Jews (which implies an Axis dominated Sinai as well, as if that hunk of sand fucking matters).
Israel still takes root. A proxy war's fought in the area in the early '50s instead of in Korea which sees Lebanon's pro-German Ba'athist government removed and, as with Jordan and Palestine, firmly placed in NATO's sphere of interest.

Map, geopolitical situation of the world in 1959. (http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4639/geopolitical1959ej5.jpg)
And in 1984. (http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2656/gepoliticaluc7.jpg)

And why is there still a Vichyite border across France? For reference only, or does it still signify something?
Reference only, same as with Germany and Alsace-Lorraine.

[Hakluyt]

Map, geopolitical situation of the world in 1959.
And in 1984.
Ah, HoI. Was this made into a mod?

[Hadding]

Yeah, I'd like to see one where a victoriously unified Italy retains Libya, and also gets, say, Tunisia, Corsica, Crete, Cyprus, and the Dardanelles. The Italians lost 600,000 men on the Eastern Front alone; there needs to be a better result for them. There also needs to be German (or joint German-Italian) occupation of Suez.
Taking the Dardanelles of course would mean a war with Turkey. If you thought Yugoslavia was bad, oh boy. Malta is a much more reasonable prize for Italy. The Axis could have had Gibraltar if Spain had come in on their side. With Gibraltar and Suez, the Mediterranean becomes an Axis lake and at that point Britain has no particular reason to keep Malta anyway. If the Mediterranean is controlled by the Axis then Turkey is pretty much under their thumb, so that outright control of the Dardanelles becomes a moot point.

[Jake Featherston]

Taking the Dardanelles of course would mean a war with Turkey. If you thought Yugoslavia was bad, oh boy. Malta is a much more reasonable prize for Italy. The Axis could have had Gibraltar if Spain had come in on their side. With Gibraltar and Suez, the Mediterranean becomes an Axis lake and at that point Britain has no particular reason to keep Malta anyway. If the Mediterranean is controlled by the Axis then Turkey is pretty much under their thumb, so that outright control of the Dardanelles becomes a moot point.

Oh, you're no fun! Fascist Tri-color over Constantinople - NOW!!!

[Dagoth Ur]

Ah, HoI. Was this made into a mod?
Unfortunately not. Someone who seems to somehow be affiliated with the project is writing an AAR (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263107) using it as a backdrop, though. Effectively it's an English translation of what's been done so far with some further creative property of his own thrown in.

But for the actual gameplay side of it, although they very much seem to be split stories now, he uses the mod Total Realism Project. (http://www.totalrealismproject.com/portal.php)